Thyroid symptoms: hypothyroid, Hashimoto's

I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's a few years after starting Zoloft. I suspect I was predisposed to autoimmunity and SSRIs possibly triggered an autoimmune attack and also disrupted endocrine /HPA axis function. It's impossible to tease out at this point.

OB/Gyn said thyroid readings were okay....not sure about that.
 
TSH   0.76 mIU/L  (my results)   Range is 0.40-4.50 mIU/L   is this low?
 
T3 Free 1.0 ng/dl   (my results)   Range is 0.8-1.8 ng/dl
 
T4 Free 2.8 pg/mL (my results)   Range is 2.3-4.2 pg/mL   is this low?
 
 
My Psych Nurse is on Synthroid and I hope to see her on Friday and ask her to evaluate this.
 
Guess I need to find and Endocrinologist.
 
A friend of mine yesterday said her readings were in the low-normal range and the Doctor did not treat her.  A Nurse Practitioner did and she is feeling so much better.  She has had depression most of her life and is feeling so much better.  She is taking a very small dose of zoloft.
 
Quite depressed. Lousy feeling.

Hi Nikki,

Have had extensive blood work done by an endocrinologist-including a good looking into on my thyroid and can tell you your results are all fine and are in the normal range.

Your TSH levels are good. A high level of TSH in the blood stream would indicate that your thyroid isn't producing enough thyroid hormone which Is not the case with you, so I diagnosis of hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) is out of the question.

Yes unfortunately time and time again hypothyroidism is often overlooked as having depression.

Similar symptoms you see 

-Exhaustion

-Brain fog

-Loss of libido

-General 'ill' mood e.t.c

But your fine.

(I think you've got your FT3 and FT4 flip-flopped up there, judging from the ranges.)

All of these are within range, but your FT4 and, more importantly, your FT3 are hovering near the bottom. Low/lowish FT3 can definitely make you feel bad, especially as concerns depression.

I've been on Synthroid and Levoxyl, both of which gave me perfect lab readings but left me feeling horrible, sluggish, depressed, hair falling out, etc. Many (but not all) people, including me, find that they feel better using natural dessicated thyroid instead of synthetics. Armour is the most common brand but there are others. As you're probably aware, Synthroid provides only T4; natural dessicated thyroid provides the full range of thyroid hormones (T1, T2, T3, T4, and calcitonin).

I do much, much better when my FT3 is at or near the top of the reference range, but Synthroid never got me there.

I don't want to have an Thyroid issue, but the OB/Gyn does thyroid testing when she orders a hormone profile.  HRT

I did go online and found that there are other tests, like antibodies, and T3 Total  and T4 total, whatever that means.

Is Armour at at the health food store?  Or is it a prescription drug?

I will double check those numbers again Sparrow and thank you Cookson for both answering....

I finally got my thyroid blood tests today, and am eagerly waiting the results. I've been doing a lot of reading on it lately too. An antibody test is good to rule autoimmune issues that could be affecting your thyroid. The two big ones are TPOab and TGab.

As for T3 and T4, you got the good ones. Free T3 and T4 tell you more than Total T3 and T4.

Armour Thyroid is only available through prescription, and unfortunately it can be difficult to find a doctor willing to prescribe it as it's seen as "outdated", but so many people seem to do better on it than Synthroid, which is what doctors usually prescribe.

I do have a call in to my doctor, but in the meantime I'm frightened. I normally take 75 mg Armour Thyroid first thing in the morning. Later, after I've eaten, I take my supplements. Only this morning I took another 75 mg dose of Armour instead of the supplements by mistake (they all sit in the same place in my kitchen, wasn't paying attention).

So now I'm freaking out that I'm going to have anxiety, palps, elevated BP, full-blown panic, etc.-- 150 mg of thyroid is kind of a lot, isn't it?

I still have leftover Klonopin if it gets bad, or I could pinch one of my husband's BP pills (beta blocker).

Suggestions? Should I make myself throw up (UGH) or something? Or maybe this isn't really a big deal and I'm overreacting?

Thanks. Sparrow

Anyone got this in withdrawal?

its weird my samples of this TSH was much higher when i was taking my ssri, then it was around 2 of max like 4 ..

now its 0,7 :/ and 0,5 is the lowest refference for this sample.. hope u guys get it what i talk about lol

i think its so weird that my tsh was fine during the medication but now its much much lower!

Yes. Happened to me too. I was put on thyroid med while on cymbalta. After i

got off it was way too much, I had to quit taking it. Now my tsh has been

in the normal range.

oooh, ye its strange that my ssri made my tsh higher, now its much lower but still in range but weird really :/

well im glad its lower then higher but weird anyway lol

Im thinking like now i know why i had big time loosing weight while on ssri bc my ths was higher ><

I’m hoping that those of you out there with thyroid issues while on psych meds or while tapering them can chime in.

I have had a history of hypothyroidism long before I got stuck on psych meds – (see my signature line). I have been on 1 grain natural dessicated thyroid (NDT – same as Armour, except custom compounded to avoid unwanted fillers and binders) since end of last October (previous to this, I had been on a combination of NDT/T3). My Free T3 continues to be high normal @ 4.1, Free T4 has been gradually dropping since taking NDT and is now @ 1.3 (from as high as 1.7).  RT3 remains slightly high normal @ 18.0. TPO and TgAb have remained normal (no antibodies detected). But TSH has jumped from 2.40 to 3.18 in the last 45 days.

At present, I have successfully tapered down to 8mg Lamictal and doing quite well the last few days, feeling more stable than I have in a while. [i started at 100mg and didn’t do too bad until after I jumped @ 25mg back in mid Jan. and destabilized after four days and had to reinstate, so now, I am making small cuts and will continue to err on the side of caution doing so]. Once off the Lamictal, I will start slowly tapering the Klonopin. I have updated my supplement regimen (see signature info).

I known that TSH alone is not a good indicator of thyroid function although it is an indication that the pituitary is working hard to activate an underactive thyroid. I also understand that TSH is a fluctuating value so to use it to catch thyroid dysfunction is very unreliable, however, here’s a study that shows that elevated TSH can raise cortisol (which is exactly what we’re trying to reduce during withdrawal): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520819/

The question now then is whether I should attempt adding a small amount of T4 to suppress TSH in order to further optimize thyroid function during w/d - - or not mess with it and wait until I am completely tapered off all psych meds before tweaking my thyroid with further thyroid meds.

My endocrinologist originally was pro on adding a small amount of T4, but lastly agreed (before these last labs) with my PCP who has consistently advised from day one to remain status quo with my 1 grain thyroid protocol until completely tapered off all psych meds (his concern being that even a slight increase in either thyroid hormone could cause catecholamine (adrenalin) sensitivity, making my w/d more acute, and I get that), but my thought is - shouldn't my thyroid function be optimized before I start tapering further - especially with the Klonopin?

I don't know much about thyroid I have learned about it and forgot about it... my mother use to say she forgot more than I would ever know as a joke... long ago when I was smart or thought I was.  I am not smart like I use to be I can't get my  head around much of what I see you write...I did however and still do react very badly to Vit D3 even tho I am low.  

I just read you had a parathyroid tumor removed and started on this wild ride from an acute bp issue... that is one thing I have when I take vit d my bp goes high fast... along with can't sleep racing thoughts ect.  I was just curious if you recall taking any vit D when you bp went high... eating fish maybe?

I still have occasional bp issues but attempts to treat it have ended in drug reactions worse than the bp and/or my bp went way too low after trying to treat it...for now sitting still.  Seeing what the body throws out next... for a treat.

My point here tho I don't understand this completely I thought there is a chance this parathyroid tumor is more of an issue then you ever thought... I read a lot about Vit D reactions when I was still trying to appease doctors and take it.. I gave that up... but I found this site about parathyroid and at the time I was thinking ok and it sounded good to me. I am going to pass it along and let you have a look.  They sound like they toot their own horn too much maybe but I don't mind that if they can back it up go ahead and toot.

They say they have redone surgeries where "others" did not know what they were doing and did not get the tumor.. or something like that they redo a lot of parathyroid surgeries and that is all these doctors do... I did have a lump on my thyroid but it turned out to be nothing.  I may be all wet but it dawned on me if your like one of those other people who had a bad surgery not fixing the actual problem... maybe this is what is going on.  I can't recall the specifics but the site will tell you why these other places are wrong and signs to look for if you do have a parathyroid issue still.  

Enough talking about stuff I don't know I hope you at least look at it.. can't hurt right... here is the link.

 http://parathyroid.com/parathyroid-disease.htm

I don't know much about thyroid I have learned about it and forgot about it... my mother use to say she forgot more than I would ever know as a joke... long ago when I was smart or thought I was.  I am not smart like I use to be I can't get my  head around much of what I see you write...I did however and still do react very badly to Vit D3 even tho I am low.  

 

I just read you had a parathyroid tumor removed and started on this wild ride from an acute bp issue... that is one thing I have when I take vit d my bp goes high fast... along with can't sleep racing thoughts ect.  I was just curious if you recall taking any vit D when you bp went high... eating fish maybe?

 

I still have occasional bp issues but attempts to treat it have ended in drug reactions worse than the bp and/or my bp went way too low after trying to treat it...for now sitting still.  Seeing what the body throws out next... for a treat.

 

My point here tho I don't understand this completely I thought there is a chance this parathyroid tumor is more of an issue then you ever thought... I read a lot about Vit D reactions when I was still trying to appease doctors and take it.. I gave that up... but I found this site about parathyroid and at the time I was thinking ok and it sounded good to me. I am going to pass it along and let you have a look.  They sound like they toot their own horn too much maybe but I don't mind that if they can back it up go ahead and toot.

 

They say they have redone surgeries where "others" did not know what they were doing and did not get the tumor.. or something like that they redo a lot of parathyroid surgeries and that is all these doctors do... I did have a lump on my thyroid but it turned out to be nothing.  I may be all wet but it dawned on me if your like one of those other people who had a bad surgery not fixing the actual problem... maybe this is what is going on.  I can't recall the specifics but the site will tell you why these other places are wrong and signs to look for if you do have a parathyroid issue still.  

Enough talking about stuff I don't know I hope you at least look at it.. can't hurt right... here is the link.

 http://parathyroid.com/parathyroid-disease.htm

Yes, am highly familiar with that site and thanks for thinking of me. It is from and written by Dr. Norman. Some is truth, some is hype/marketing. I was dx'd with primary hyperparathyroidism (pHPT) after much fanfare, four years of elevated calcium levels, later, a very painful and unexpected kidney stone, and many repeat tests, to finally confirm that the nodule on the posterior of my thyroid was NOT just a thyroid nodule. My surgery was curative insofar as my parathyoid (normal serum calcium and PTH levels), however, my thyroid took a little ride for the worst for a brief stint and is now somewhat normalized (was never normal before), but is totally unrelated to the parathyroid issue. Diagnosing pHPT is very difficult and takes a very skilled endo and radiologist of which there are few. I chose to have my surgery with one of the leading endo surgeons in the country, Dr. Michael Yeh, MD, at UCLA.  If you suspect you might have some of the symptoms (just about everything you can imagine Dr. Norman lists as being caused by pHPT), you would do well to have a PTH, urine, serum and ionized calcium test as well as Vitamin D to see what your levels are. Even then, you can still be within range and possibly have a tumor, but unlikely. I take 5000iu Vit D daily to keep my serum levels in the 60-70 range for optimal health. Never noticed any problems with Vit D causing BP, but too much (>100) is just as bad as too little (<40).

I hear you on the kidney stones... I did see an endo.. my D is low still I react badly to it... she did some tests I don't recall all a 24 hour urine before and after an attempt to take Vit D at 400mg a day for a month... I could not do it.. after a couple days I was headed to the psych ward.  Anxiety over the top talking to myself  no sleep.  I took as much as I possibly could 2 days on and a few days off... she did not believe me is the only conclusion I have at the end of it all she said I was not taking enough vit D... 

After taking as much as I could for the months... she was away for the entire month so I could not get any advice ... but after taking more vit d that month than usual my vit d was the lowest it has ever been... I decided my body will just get rid of any I put in ... she said take more.  

I know she did not hear me...signed off back to my own doc.  I did have a thyroid nodule prior to seeing the endo it was decided it was cold and nothing needed to be done about it. I broke my foot doing nothing a small hop in the kitchen floor it was a bad break so vit  D was checked.  I was told to take 400mg of Vit D and 1000 mg of calcium a day first attempt brought on  pounding heart circles of fire around my eyes and a splitting head ache. Various varieties of D were tried I was left to drink milk and eat cheese for the calcium.  I even tried lower doses of baby drop vit D to gradually go up in dose... it just is not worth it to me.  I get reactions from the smallest dose of Vit D and I have not found out why. 

Yes I know how important vit D is to life and health... I also know how important it is to sleep and have a semblance of life. I made the choice based on my options at the time and so far I have not found an answer.  My pth hormone level was ok... thyroid has had varying levels but mostly within normal rage. 

It is a mystery to me and so far I think the doctors I have seen just plain don't believe me the only thing they can measure is the bp.  To tell you the truth I did not keep a close eye on that one but should I ever chance taking Vit D again I will keep a close eye on the bp  

I hear you on the kidney stones... I did see an endo.. my D is low still I react badly to it... she did some tests I don't recall all a 24 hour urine before and after an attempt to take Vit D at 400mg a day for a month... I could not do it.. after a couple days I was headed to the psych ward.  Anxiety over the top talking to myself  no sleep.  I took as much as I possibly could 2 days on and a few days off... she did not believe me is the only conclusion I have at the end of it all she said I was not taking enough vit D... 

After taking as much as I could for the months... she was away for the entire month so I could not get any advice ... but after taking more vit d that month than usual my vit d was the lowest it has ever been... I decided my body will just get rid of any I put in ... she said take more.  

I know she did not hear me...signed off back to my own doc.  I did have a thyroid nodule prior to seeing the endo it was decided it was cold and nothing needed to be done about it. I broke my foot doing nothing a small hop in the kitchen floor it was a bad break so vit  D was checked.  I was told to take 400mg of Vit D and 1000 mg of calcium a day first attempt brought on  pounding heart circles of fire around my eyes and a splitting head ache. Various varieties of D were tried I was left to drink milk and eat cheese for the calcium.  I even tried lower doses of baby drop vit D to gradually go up in dose... it just is not worth it to me.  I get reactions from the smallest dose of Vit D and I have not found out why. 

 

Yes I know how important vit D is to life and health... I also know how important it is to sleep and have a semblance of life. I made the choice based on my options at the time and so far I have not found an answer.  My pth hormone level was ok... thyroid has had varying levels but mostly within normal rage. 

 

It is a mystery to me and so far I think the doctors I have seen just plain don't believe me the only thing they can measure is the bp.  To tell you the truth I did not keep a close eye on that one but should I ever chance taking Vit D again I will keep a close eye on the bp  

The only disease I know of in which Vitamin D is contraindicated is sarcoidosis, a granulomatous autoimmune disease but even that is speculative. There are also genetic mutations of VDR (vitamin D receptor) which DNA saliva testing can reveal (23andme.com). Extensive testing needs to be done to rule out these and other possibilities before any assessment can be made. Bear in the mind that vitamin D is not a vitamin; it is a hormone. It may not even be the D itself, but a cascade of other processes in your body that are being affected and causing these untoward inflammatory reactions.

I know I have had blood test for autoimmune diseases and I don't have any none that show up anyway.  I wonder what they do about genetic mutations to the VDR I know about it as I read about the Marshal protocol.  We had huge warnings on the new here about 23 and me who owns your genetic information... warning not to go there. I am in Canada. I will do some more looking there maybe something you and I don't know yet I keep an open mind maybe one day it will all make sense. 

Thanks and peace

I found this 

The VDR gene mutations that cause this condition prevent the VDR protein from functioning properly. Some changes in the VDR gene lead to an abnormally short version of the VDR protein; others result in the production of an abnormal receptor that cannot bind to calcitriol, to RXR, or to DNA. Despite plenty of calcitriol in the body, the altered VDR cannot stimulate gene activity important for mineral absorption. The lack of calcium and phosphate absorption in the intestines slows deposition of these minerals into developing bone (bone mineralization), which leads to soft, weak bones and other features of VDDR2. Hypocalcemia also causes muscle weakness and seizures in some affected individuals. Most VDR gene mutations impair hair growth, leading to alopecia; however, mutations that block VDR's ability to interact with calcitriol do not cause alopecia, indicating that calcitriol is not necessary for the receptor's role in hair development.

I still have hair.  don't have rickets muscle ya they hurt... but an interesting read none the less

I am keen to talk with an members who may have the Autoimmune disease, Hashimotos.

A Key symptom is depression, and would like to touch base about coping strategies with the 'double whammy' of WD symptoms and the autoimmune condition.

Thanks friends.

I have Hashimotos. Feel too sick now, but when I am able, I will have to go get my thyroid checked again. I have to check it every 6 months. I'm not on any meds for it because my hormones are (or at least were) normal. I only have high antibody count. 

Alto: Were both your Free T3 and Free T4 in the lower range? Sounds like you are doing everything you can to support your thyroid without taking medication. If you are not feeling symptomatic then I can see why you don't feel the need to medicate.

I am also still having ongoing thyroid issues. In 2013 I my TSH was tested three times. My TSH went from normal to high then back to normal. My doc (like many docs) is absolutely clueless so I had to beg for the other other thyroid tests. My free T4 was fine but my FT3 was in the toilet which explained the awful fatigue. I chose not to take the Synthroid my doc prescribed when my TSH was high and then my TSH went back down to the normal range and he said I didn't need it. Sigh.

So this year I had my TSH tested again since I was having the same issues: constant fatigue, hair loss, depression/anxiety, brain fog. My TSH tested at 5.28 which is well out of range. Well I got a new doctor who said that that is considered subclinical hypothyroidism (which I knew) and unless I am having obvious symptoms we should not medicate. Therein lies the problem. How do I know if my symptoms are from WD or from thyroid issues since they are so similar? I am very hesitant to take any hormonal drugs because in 2002 I started taking birth control and had a total crash ( I was tapering at the time.) It was so terrifying it scared me off tapering for years. I've also been researching this a lot and it seems many people get worse on Synthroid instead of better and it can cause crazy anxiety until you figure out what dose is right for you.

I had hoped my new doctor was better than my old one, and she at least was willing to test my Free T3 and T4 (getting that done tomorrow), but when I asked her for an antibodies test she said I will only have antibodies if I am hyperthyroid which I know is completely false. So I guess I will have to pay for those on my own. I did have my TPO ab tested in 2013 and although some were detected they were in the normal range.

So I guess my question is, when should you take take meds and could Synthroid possibly make WD worse or contribute to a crash?

I developed low thyroid before WD. I've never known anyone here being tested for Hashimoto's though. My Mom had it, which I think makes it more likely for me to have it as well. It's quite common in people who have diabetes too, as I do.

Here, they are supposed to test T3 and T4, but that was never done in my case. At the time, I was dealing with multiple other health issues due to a car accident..so I didn't take things any further. Once on synthroid, the symptoms I was having all the time did lessen somewhat.

I've had yearly TSH tests and it has bounced around more during WD. Alto, do you think there would be any value in me asking for the other tests at this point?

I have read conflicting things about synthroid containing gluten, but nobody seems to have a clear answer...but I was wondering for awhile if it might be contributing to digestive issues. But that has improved with acupuncture. A few times, I've had homeopathy designed to stimulate thyroid and it did help lessen the symptoms. I would actually like to get off the synthroid at some point, but don't want to attempt it at the moment.

Thanks Alto...I'll check this out. I don't know how or where I could get the testing done here. The BC guidelines only use TSH as a way of monitoring, once you're being treated. I'll ask the doctor, but I suspect that answer will be no to any further testing being covered by the medical plan. They waste money in all kinds of ways, but refuse on many things that could actually be helpful. I imagine some naturopaths would do testing, but then they would want you to do their treatment...which is not necessarily right for me at the moment either.

I have been researching thyroid issues given I have had symptoms prior to meds, while on meds, and now in WD. I have been tested, but not thoroughly.

I've seen the LDN discussed. But, my concern is what it does in the long term. It seems from what I can gather that people take indefinitely.

If I had hair loss, I definitely would agree with hypothyroidism and get with some kind of treatment. As you probably know, the definition of subclinical vs clinical depends on what ranges you think are important and varies from doctor to doctor.

 

The problem is that the hair loss could also due to my chronic anemia which is very hard for me to get control of both due to my heavy periods and the fact that WD has given me stomach issues which iron supplements (even the gentle chelated ones) seem to worsen. I still take them as often as I can though. I recently began eating red meat again, after five years without, and I'm really hoping this helps raise my iron levels as well.

As for lab results I know that labs vary in their acceptable ranges, and from what I have read you want both your Free T3 and your Free T4 to fall within 50%-80% of the range your lab uses.

Me in 2013:

FT3: 2.69    range: 2.18 - 3.98 pg/mL      Not good at all

FT4: 1.33    range: 0.76 - 1.46 ng/dl        Pretty darn good

So I've decided that I will not consider medication until BOTH my FT3 and FT4 are below the 50% range. Unfortunately, my docs are pretty clueless and since I don't have insurance I don't have the option of choosing a better doctor. I would love to be able to have access to a compounded T3/T4 medication since I have a feeling based on these past results that I am a poor converter of T4 to T3. I have started eating Brazil Nuts as they are chock full of Selenium (it only takes 1-2 nuts to get your daily value) and I've read that Selenium can help with the conversion process.

This is the forum that I go to for all my thyroid questions. The people who post there are actually quite knowledgable and will help you make sense of your lab results if you post them: http://www.healthboards.com/boards/thyroid-disorders/