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  1. Hello everybody, First of al I would like to excuse for my English, since it is not my native language. In august 2020 I started using citalopram (first 2 weeks 10 mg and then raised to 20 mg). I used it until february 2021 and quit cold turkey midst february 2021. One of the side effects of citalopram was intolerable concentration problems. I used to have very sharp cognitive abilities, but almost immediately after starting with citalopram my cognitive abilities declined. My memory was awful and I could not conceptualize and make connections any more. I first thought that it was a temporary phenomenon, but it did not fade away. In february 2021 I started with a new job, which requires high intellectual effort. I kind of got in to panic because of the still present cognitive issues. Midst the month february I decided to quit cold turkey. The first two weeks were really not different to hell on earth. I had awful physical symptoms and enormous brain fog. I expected the problems to fade away within 3 to 4 weeks because that was the official indication. The reality was however very different. the physical symptoms faded away within 3 weeks but the mental ones still are with me. I have been having awful headaches and and indescribable awful form of brain fog. It has been 4 months now since i have quit cold turkey. The first three months were awful, and I thought I would never ever recover. Since this month however I finally have clear moments. The development of the clear moments gives me hope. The length of their presence is getting longer each day now. I expect to get fully recovered. The only sad thing is that it seems that it takes a hell of a long time to get recovered fully. I wanted to share my experience with people who are in the same position. For now my message is: don't loose hope we will get better! One thing I also want to share with you is that I have been in contact with two psychiatrist. I was really shocked by the fact that that they really did not have any knowledge about possible long-term side effect of ssri's. It was really frustrating. Luckily I found other sources on the internet like this website where I could find an explanation and recognition.
  2. Hi everyone. Thanks for this wonderful site, it's helped me loads already. I'm a recovering alcoholic/drug addict, been clean & sober in a 12 step recovery fellowship since 2007. Was prescribed Citalopram 20mg & Olanzapine 2.5 for depression and have been taking it for for nearly 13 years. I've only just started to feel ready to think about coming off. Halved the Olanzapine to 1.25 & held for 4 weeks. Pills too small to cut any further so started alternating every other day but read this is not a good idea. Decided to jump off at 1.25 and took my last dose on 6.6.20 (4 days ago.) Had some withdrawal symptoms starting a couple of days ago: slight agitation, disturbed sleep, reduced appetite, mild stomach pains, slight increase in anxiety but on the whole I'm ok. Just ordered magnesium, omega 3 & vitamin E to help with the withdrawal, as per one of the threads I read on here. I'm aware that there may be waves of withdrawal, potentially after weeks/ months so am prepared for this (or as prepared as I can be) I'm committed to doing this & hope I won't have to start taking it again, but also accept if it gets really bad then I might have to. Anybody got any guidance for me with this? Any info/ support gratefully accepted. x
  3. Link to Introduction topic: ☼-dan998-cold-turkey-reinstatement-and-tapering-citalopram I never got around to writing a success story because I never really considered myself a success. Sure, I got off the drugs, but it always felt like I had some residual brain damage. Presumably caused by 14 years of taking SSRIs and then the subsequent traumatic experience of stubbornly trying to force my way through a cold-turkey withdrawal, reluctantly reinstating and then rushing my taper. However, I recently had a realisation that has made me reconsider this point of view. I got a bit bored during the pandemic. Instead of filling the void by getting drunk and watching Netflix in my underpants. I decided to be proactive. I’d learn a new skill. Designing websites was something that looked interesting and would fill the long hours of lockdown. So, I enthusiastically threw myself at this task. Immersing myself to the point of becoming totally obsessed by it. After months and months and months of perseverance, I managed to teach myself how to put together a half decent website. However, the most important thing that I actually learnt was that my mind wasn’t as badly damaged as I’d incorrectly assumed it was. Thinking back to the debilitating cog-fog of those early days of withdrawal, where I couldn’t even process a few simple sentences, I came to realise just how much I have healed and grown over the last 7 years. It’s amazing the extent to which my brain has recovered. It's gone from being a completely useless drug dependent mess to a fully functional wonder of nature that is able to think, reason and learn. Creativity, concentration, logical thinking, problem solving and memory. All these abilities had returned and I didn’t even realise until I pushed myself beyond what I thought I was capable of achieving. Time has truly worked its magic in slow, imperceptible increments. It feels like I am almost back to how I was before an antidepressant had ever passed my lips. A lot older, fatter and with more grey hair than I’d like. But, finally glimpsing the version of me that I expected to see when I first came here all those years ago. Of course there are scars. There will always be scars. I don’t think it is possible to go through such an extreme experience and not be fundamentally changed by it. I still occasionally have flashbacks and I get anxious sometimes. But, I try to not let it bother me and I get on with my day. Withdrawal no longer defines my identity. It has become just another chapter in the story of my life and, thanks to this forum, there are now many blank pages eagerly waiting to be written. Thank you Alto and all the moderators for your hard work and tireless dedication. My withdrawal journey can be found here - ☼-dan998-cold-turkey-reinstatement-and-tapering-citalopram
  4. Hello. I stopped citalopram on 9/5/23 at 1.98mg into my taper of 3+ years. I just wanted to be done. I’m now having EXTREME anxiety and I don’t know what to do. It is effecting everything and I’m really struggling. I was ok the first couple of weeks but this week I feel like I’m going to panic and have a nervous breakdown. Is it too late for me to reinstate? also my dr just gave me some Buspar yesterday. But I’m too scared to take it. Should I take this?
  5. Hi guys, I tried to post this in the Symptoms and self-care forum but couldn't do so for some reason, so I'm posting here. I am 33 year old and suffer from PAWS, especially bloated and painful stomach and nerve system issues. My withdrawal was 10 years ago and I still suffer from post acute withdrawal syndrome. I am very afraid that the Pfizer Covid vaccine will aggravate my PAWS symptoms for the long term, but on the other hand I'm afraid that if I get Covid the side effects would also aggravate my PAWS symptoms. So I was wondering does anyone have any take on long term side effects from Covid and from the Pfizer vaccine that might effect PAWS? so I could weigh my risks.. I wanted to wait with the vaccine, but I'm kind of afraid that waiting too much will expose me more to Covid, although I try to take all the relevant precaution. Also, as some say that there will be annual vaccines against Covid (much like the flu vaccines), I was thinking maybe it's a good idea to take some blood tests before and some months after the vaccine for comparison, so I could decide whether to take it annually if needed (if there are no major side effects and effect on the tests). Which blood tests would you recommend me to do ? Thanks guys for your help, this is a great website with great resources and members! Take care and be healthy.
  6. I don't know how to improve my symptoms. Two months ago I stopped citalopram after taper over two months from 20mg. After 3 weeks I got slight blurred vision and dizzy I reinstated 5mg after 5 weeks with no improvement I went up to 10mg 2 weeks later After 2 weeks I started getting ringing in my ears (doctor says it's drawn in eardrum probably after an infection and will get better in a few weeks) A week later my symptoms seem worse not better Doctor says I should go up to 20mg.
  7. I am in the UK. I started on 10mg of Cjtalopram in 2008. A couple of times I have gone up to 20mg for a week or two when feeling very bad but each time it just took away any joy I had in life without taking away the depression. The cause of the depression went away in 2013 and I have made a couple of attempts to come off the citalopram over the years since then (apologies, I cannot remember which years). I have tried changing to Fluoxetine on the doctor's advise but that made me feel worse. To help with the withdrawal symptoms I have tried counselling, tried CBT, tried hypnosis and tried neurolinguistic programming and nothing helped. My main symptoms are irritability, anger and anxiety but I do have other symptoms of a more mild nature too. I am currently going through another attempt to come off the citalopram that I started at the beginning of January this year. Firstly I cut my 10mg tablets in half, then into quarters, as best I could. In May I couldn't stand the anxiety so I stopped taking them. I was okay for two weeks but then the horrendous symptoms came on. I went back on quarter of a tablet (2.5mg) and things stabilised a bit but it wasn't great and I thought this was probably because it is almost impossible to get an equal dose each time when splitting a small tablet into quarters. I then asked my GP to prescribe me the liquid instead and I started on 1 drop = 2mg, which in liquid form is the same as 2.5mg in tablet form. I started to reduce this by diluting the drop in water and discarding some of it but again it wasn't very accurate as I wasn't able to measure exactly how much I was discarding, but roughly it was 1.4mg, and my moods were all over the place. I purchased some syringes so that I could measure exactly how much I was discarding of the diluted solution containing the 2mg drop. For the last month (Oct 2023) I have been diluting one drop (2mg) in 20ml of water and then taking out 2ml (10%), leaving me with a dose of 1.8mg. I was reasonably stable on this but I was having random bad days and it appeared that the dropper in the bottle wasn't able to dispense EXACTLY the same amount each time so I started putting 2 drops in 20ml, taking out 10ml and then taking our 1ml, effectively still giving me the 1.8mg but hopefully a more even dose each day. However, I am still having problems. I spoke to my GP today and asked to be referred to a prescription drug addiction service but she couldn't help. She couldn't believe that I was having problems on such a small dose and hadn't heard of anyone else struggling like I am. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't dismissive, she just didn't have any experience of it or advice to help me. After being fairly stable, with 3 or 4 days of blips in the last 4 weeks, I am now in a downwards spiral of anger and irritability again. I just don't know what to do now. I really don't want to keep on increasing my dose but I don't want to destroy my marriage, business and friendships either. I wish I could get away from these feelings as I just do not know where to turn and don't feel there is anything else I can try, other than accepting I will have to be on this hideous medication forever.
  8. Kostas

    ☼ Kostas

    Hi, I am Kostas from Athens Greece, and I would like to post my story. After suffering a burn out in my demanded post at work, not been able to eat, sleep, exhausted and non functional, was prescribed 20 mg citalopram. Started 10 mg for 1 week, and then 20. Side effects few and tolerable for 3 weeks, and then dramatic improvement and completely functional in week 8. Got them for 9 months, June 1994-march 1995. Then 10 mg for a month 5 for 2 months and off. Start relapsing after 2 months, and reinstated August 1995. 10 mg 1 week and then 20, August 95- August 96 Then tapering 6 months and off Feb 97. Very well till October 99, then relapse and reinstated 20 mg January 2000. On the drug Jan 00- September 01, Tapering 6 months, and off from March 02. Another relapse on October 03,and another reinstatement 20 mg, from October 03- October 05 Then, very slow tapering for 7 years October 05- October 12. 10mg 2006, 5 2007,2.5 2008, 2 2009, 1 2010, 0.5 2011, 0.25 2012. Off the drug from Oct 2012 till today. WD symptoms although not thought so back then, Nov 2012 slight tinnitus, till today June 2013, frequent urination and nocturia, much improved now. 2014 muscle tightness, and tired. Not too bad, but deterioration during stress. This continues on and off till today but have adjusted. June 2015 palpitations and arythmia for one month, and gone by then. October 2016,pain in the legs and shawder for a 2 months. April 2017, slight insomnia, agitation, tiredness, pain in the muscles and weak legs, agrivaded all symptoms under stress. Waves and windows till beginning of August, and improving now. Decided to try not to reinstate, since I am relatively functional 70%, but not happy with the situation! Any advice welcome!
  9. Hello everybody, I've been on 10mg of citalopram for 14 weeks now for constant anxiety and panic attacks. I want to start tapering off this week and am trying neurofeedback to deal with the completely dysregulated nervous system I've had since I was a child. Hoping to get some guidance as I do my 10% gradual reduction. I hate feeling spaced out and the insomnia hasn't been a barrel of laughs either....
  10. I’ve been trying to write this since late summer 2021 when I came off citalopram, and joined the Facebook withdrawal support group in case of recurrence issues etc. I would welcome any feedback and ideas. I knew very little about withdrawal compared to what I’ve now learned, and experienced, and I thought all my problems from prolonged use were virtually over! So it’s for the best I wasn't able to finish writing this due to the increased executive dysfunction and additional issues cropping up, as my recovery journey had only really begun. I’m still learning, awaiting and hopeful for full recovery. I went on citalopram in 2007 age 33, (10 mg and very gradually increased dose) and made as much informed choice as was available at the time. There was no intention of it being long term. For some time during these early years I went up to 60mg until a doctor told me they needed to reduce people to no more than 40mg due to some research about heart issues. This reduction seemed no problem. Circumstances had caused me to become additionally anxious, depressed and even suicidal before going on citalopram, (intolerable neighbour noise and abuse). I still suffer the effects of these traumatic times from 2002, and becoming extreme by 2006 whenever there is a trigger or threat of recurrence. Mirtazapine was recommended at this time, and a doctor said 'I know you shouldn't have to take pills because of someone else, but they will help you through a house move.' Reluctantly I decided to try them as things were desperate. I tried a couple of doses, missing a day as they made me feel drowsy, zombie like. I had little concept of how they work. We had a call that day with the offer of another flat, therefore I did not continue with the Mirtazapine, relived the problem may be over. Although we moved from the extreme issues in 2006, the next place, though an improvement initially, was not conducive for recovery; being a mid-flat and there was a turnover of problematic people in the above and below flats. Many aspects of my mental health did not improve, also my disabilities, were affected. After starting citalopram I started to feel better within first few days, a few side effects and feeling unwell during the 2nd to 3rd day, which passed, but also everything started feeling smoother, cushioned, and then I felt much better by 4th day . This was a surprisingly good, quick and dramatic response; I had been advised it may take weeks and often people need to try two or three different types before finding one that suits. I have hidden disabilities, autism, ADHD, DCD (i.e., developmental co-ordination disorder, dyspraxia). One of the things I’d been struggling with was increased problems with co-ordination/proprioception, frequently crashing/stubbing fingers into things; this ceased. My eating, which had become really slow, improved, along with digestion. I soon slept better at night and became more happy and proactive in the day. My mind became more in the present, forgetting to think much about past and future. Also I have trichotillomania - compulsive hair pulling. This ceased soon after going on citalopram, but returned within weeks, which I thought was due to me dealing with more challenging issues too soon. Some information about how these pills work, and effectiveness for trichotillomania had reached my specialist autism councillor, who had advised me in good faith. However, it's now known that these meds are not usually effective for trichotillomania, and can aggravate it. I now know why several approaches for trichotillomania during the years on citalopram were to no avail, even though they appeared promising initially. However, one of the referrals was particularly useful, i.e. SAANDS (Sheffield Autism and Neurodevelopmental service). This led to a more meaningful report for my existing autism diagnosis along with a sensory profile, and a diagnosis of ADHD and DCD (Developmental Coordination Disorder, dyspraxia). This gave me additional insights and validation into my sensory and developmental needs, and opened up opportunities. It was also reported that people with DCD become more tired than the norm, and also can get aches and pains. This is also common for Autistic people. In all my experience learning about and knowing others with these hidden disabilities many have fatigue type illnesses which include gut issues and unexplained symptoms which are neurological, and the nervous system is already imbalanced. My understanding is this is often due to the exhausting stress of having to navigate a life we are not equipped to deal with, especially those who have been long-term without the support and understanding needed. I’ve now made the connection many are on such medications. I still did not believe I could come off citalopram, as I falsely believed they made me safer from the trichotillomania as they had initially. I was also scared of the old issues I had before meds returning; i.e. destressing painful intrusive thoughts causing sleepless nights. There never appeared to be a right time to come off them due to life stresses, such as gaslighting and gatekeeping from organizations and individuals which kept the pattern going. I believed that these unresolved issues were contributors to my worsening health in the latter years. I became enabled to have a more fulfilling life during the first years, (due to circumstances and pills). I was more resilient, my communication and social life developed. However, things were not really ok because my living environment was still problematic, therefore coping with other life stresses was more difficult. I became more enabled to figure out creative big ideas and find support to implement them. My mum followed a similar pattern with initial alleviation of symptoms then eventual decline into fatigue, and severe physical symptoms during lengthy tapering and withdrawal. The best years health wise were the first few, up to around 2012-13, which were the happiest years due to circumstances including another house move in 2012 to a more appropriate and peaceful flat. There appeared to be a significant improvement in health problems during the first couple of months; i.e., virtually free of the post viral type issues explained below. This issue stemmed from glandular fever in 1996, involving feeling of swelling from throat to stomach, (likely glands, and membranes) digestion problems, weight loss, fatigue. Alternative therapies helped when this deteriorated in the noughties, though progress was limited hence the stressful circumstances. I’ve now learnt that stress on the body from these meds can likely cause a recurrence or reactivation of illnesses like this. In the summer of 2008 a few months after starting citalopram, I had a normal cold / cough, but the cough didn't fully clear up, I was left with frequent need to clear throat, and difficulty doing so. Looking back in old diaries, I raised this with doctor in autumn 2010. Therefore it must have become more intrusive then, as I doubt I put up with it at that level for two years. This correlated with me resorting to trying the pill, cerazette, as I was suffering from severe pms and period issues which although I’ve always had this, it is worsened by stress, which life issues were causing at this time. I found out recently the pill can cause gut imbalance, reflux and is pro inflammatory. Luckily I only lasted 6-8 weeks on it as I had low level physical pms all the time (I remember feeling cold etc.). I was prescribed a steroid spray for the cough, which luckily wasn't effective as they are not good for health and can create further issues. Eventually after tests ruled other things out a doctor thought it was silent reflux. I tried three different types of PPIs, from early 2011 to summer 2014; they didn't appear to do much. I think I must have stuck with them out of a false sense of security. I gradually developed some bowel problems (wind, looseness) which I thought could be some level of lactose intolerance as when I started using more soya than cow's milk in spring 2012, symptoms improved. (I’ve had some difficulties with cow's milk before; we now think it's more likely to be proteins that are difficult to digest when my digestion is not efficient). The issues gradually crept back though. Also I had occasional tummy bugs whilst on these PPIs which I never usually have (not since I was young). In the summer of 2014 a doctor had the presence of mind to suggest I switch to gaviscon or equivalent because of risk of long term side effects of PPIs. The bowel issues cleared up immediately, but my routine blood test sometime after this showed my calcium levels were low. (Clearly absorption issues from the gaviscon)! I discovered slippery elm powder (and now found marshmallow powder) suited rather than gaviscon, therefore no longer needing the aspartame containing calcium pills! I’ve included this information as PPIs are often prescribed inappropriately, (as are many meds) e.g. it's becoming known often people with low stomach acid ( which I suspect I have/had, especially in the latter years of being on citalopram) present similar symptoms to high acid and imbalances caused by such meds can lead to long term issues (including osteoporosis). During the summer of 2019, after reading about low stomach acid how to improve it, I took the advice of eating the protein of meals first as this makes digestion easier. I had no unwell days for an unusually long time, around six weeks. I was confident this was the solution, until the problems inevitably crept back, not having identified the main source. This silent reflux was one reason I chose to try reduce citalopram, as I’d read it may cause such issues. Going from 40mg to 30mg did not appear problematic. The post viral type issues gradually crept back up. In 2013 a routine blood test showed anaemia (iron deficiency). I had hoped this was an explanation and solution to this fatigue, but treatment made no difference to my symptoms. However, it's likely that this anaemia which recurred occasionally over the years was connected to these meds even if indirect, due to poor absorption and heavier periods. By around 2014-15 I was having an unwell day every week or two. I raised this with a doctor and after some tests a referral to the CFS/ME clinic was agreed. The in G.P. there had a special interest in CFS/ME and was insightful, knowledgeable validated my experience. We discussed how some traits of CfS/ME and Autism are shared due to the CNS. Also he felt the glandular fever, had changed my immune system. This appears imbalanced as I rarely pick up colds and other bugs. We concluded and agreed on a provisional diagnosis of atypical chronic fatigue. There was no pretence of knowing all the answers, unlike many. This felt right as my experience is being chronically fatigued, but I do not fit the usual pattern; nor benefit from the usual pacing approach. However, I do need to pace anyway in order to function due to autism, but this makes no difference to the physical symptoms. I went to a herbalist in around 2016, who I still see. Although we couldn't improve "chronic fatigue" and symptoms at the time as we did not know the culprit, it balanced my hormones, gave me a regular cycle which I’d never had, and tests showed my oestrogen was no longer on the low side and my bone strength became normal for my age. Although I’d previously had some hormonal improvement through alternatives, it was this time and the vitex that really clinched it. The "chronic fatigue" became more frequent, and became almost half the days of the week from summer 2020, though during premenstrual half of month I was less likely to be affected. This changed in autumn 2020, more days unwell than well regardless. I very gradually tapered from 30mg to 20mg in winter 2020-21 even though at this point I didn't think the pills could be responsible for all these problems. However, I wanted to try coming off them in case, as I’d come across stuff online about them depleting minerals and causing imbalance of gut flora etc. and also for other wellbeing reasons. It is also now known these meds deplete neurons needed for mood regulation. Any changes good or bad during this taper were too subtle too pinpoint. ( I had tried coming down from 30mg a few years ago, but couldn't make it work, appeared to make my DCD (dyspraxia) worse.) In retrospect, it's likely I used the alternating days taper, hence causing problems, which I would not have known is often problematic. However, the DCD had gradually become more problematic over last few years but because it was so slow and subtle I didn't know what was happening, as it mainly affected spatial awareness in situations like walking through town, so didn't know if I’d got worse - or was it the behaviour of the public? (E.g. increase in people not being mindful of where they’re going, walking looking at phones etc.). It became much more stressful exhausting work for the final almost year on meds, especially on unwell and precursor days; it was a relief when I shopped with my partner to guide me. I also had loss of balance; again I can look back and see it started extremely subtly, 2018 I remember, but I put that down to DCD. There would always be a precursor to an unwell day, including various symptoms, fleeting slight nausea, (which was also problematic on movement and lying down at times) almost constant wind, drop in mood and motivation, indecisiveness, increase in trichotillomania, loss of appetite/digestion, yawning, mispronouncing words, coldness, accidents/mishaps, and some feeling in sinus like beginnings of a cold. This all worsened towards the end and a particularly distressing problem was accidently biting myself when eating (inside of mouth etc.). In the summer of 2021 I researched this biting as it was happening most days and was becoming very distressing, though psychologically more than physically. Among other reasons I read about, was swollen mucosa. This correlated with the side effects list on my pill leaflet, (like many other issues) but had manifested differently. This appears to be a common pattern of long-term use and withdrawal for many, though often much more chronic or severe. These precursors were infallible, and were always followed by a feeling of swelling from neck/glands, behind nose/eyes down to stomach, and frequent hiccupping type motion. This would inevitably set in for at least 24 hours, gradually increasing in the latter years. Also, an ache in my thigh I've had on and off since the 1996 glandular fever or before became more severe. In retrospect, this was much more than the post glandular fever, and also came with numerous additional issues. Some inflammation appeared in my finger, in spring 2021 I believe; I felt a sharp pain after only squeezing a baby wipe. Although nothing could be found, it was worrying and limiting. I did not know it was related to the other issues until later, and now realise it correlated with the uneven taper. I had all usual tests over that spring/summer, bloods, stool sample, upper endoscopy, CT scan though I was sure it would be to no avail, already having my answers as explained, and there is no viable treatment for such neurological issues. It only served to reassure others and had no benefit for my well-being. A possible abnormality of small bowel was suspected. This gave me hope, maybe my symptoms could be explained and fixed. I wondered if it was bowel toxins leaking as that seemed to fit with my problems; (i.e. like slow poisoning). I had a pill camera test and was disappointed when it showed it was only benign polyps and still nothing explained or untoward found; therefore, no resolution. I also returned to the CFS clinic. It was a new psychiatrist; he did not think I had CFS, not even atypical and believed it was anxiety and IBS. Although he’d been quite thorough, and looked through reports about how essential my activities are, and gave a good prognosis for me getting well when my activities resume after the lockdown, but he had put two-and-two together and made 500! I did not feel adversely affected by lockdown. I did not feel excluded, had plenty to do and a safe peaceful place to live, contrary to past lifelong experiences that led me to going on pills. I’m happy living with my mum, and was also forming a close friendship, who has now become my partner. We were a support bubble. We were told quite early in the lockdown that our important activity (disability sports and play) would return in time and the staff would keep their jobs. I learnt some new skills due to lockdown which are empowering, and also new walks to different shops. Obviously the frequent fatigue was frustrating as I could have been doing so much more. However I felt I had no choice but to take his advice on board, as it was also said among peers that the pandemic causes stress to us all even if we don't realise it, e.g., it's tiring having to think about everything we do etc. I did not feel able to process or express that this diagnosis was not right for me, the exhaustion and illness made me feel helpless and resigned. Additionally, I didn't have enough time to process his report. Also, there wasn't enough allowance of my difficulties making informed choices due to Autism. To be fair, this isn't always apparent to others. However, I still find it disturbing how I was misdiagnosed and the more knowledgeable CFS/ME doctor was overridden. In retrospect I may have appeared to present with anxieties, which had been documented. Although this originated from past traumas, I now feel it was due to my deteriorating health and unexplained new symptoms, but focused onto past experiences. Those anxieties have now diminished, though naturally I cannot help but wonder what could have become of me had I not discovered why, or stopped these meds which were clearly causing harm. Maybe it was for the best that it was me rather than them who discovered the cause, as I dread to think of the effects of a rapid withdrawal that professionals commonly use! An aspect that influenced his decision of me not having CFS is that I’d sometimes use alcohol on a bad day as I’d discovered it masked the symptoms a bit and gave me some energy and motivation, and most importantly stimulated appetite and digestion. This gave me some concerns; i.e. using it for wrong reasons, as alcohol was normally for treats and occasions for me. I was mindful about not having too much or too often. I now have less alcohol as it sometimes doesn't suit me as well, also learnt from this group that its problematic for some in withdrawal. He referred me to a mental health 'Living well with long-term conditions' course, and suggested I drink peppermint tea! By the time this course started in August I’d discovered this med had made me ill, therefore I ended up enlightening them! They were nice and open to learning. The gastroenterologist who had liaised with the psychiatrist suggested I change my diet, basically to cut out many valuable prebiotic foods, therefore scapegoating the likes of broccoli and garlic whilst completely missing the real culprit! It's concerning that not one of these medical professionals made this connection! During summer 2021 I tapered from 20 mg to 10 mg, using the method of dropping down to 10 mg every few days, and gradually weening until 20mg every other day, and then other way round until I was on 10mg most days, then every day (I didn't know then that this method is not usually recommended by real insightful sources like this group and can be problematic for many). Its very common for practitioners use this method, and also withdraw people much too quickly. This can make people very ill, though can be much delayed. It is often believed a person cannot be free of meds due to this. Of course every individual is different, but very slow even tapers over months or even years can make a safer smoother transition as it gives the nervous system time to adjust. This is known as micro tapering and is becoming more documented, and resources can be found on the 'Surviving Antidepressants' and 'The inner compass' site and the Facebook SSRI withdrawal group. People often take this into their own hands because of this control. Correct and safe ways of tapering with appropriate resources is essential. I felt ok and started to feel much better as soon as I was on 10mg every day, my digestion started working better. Therefore I started to taper again after a week. I intended to take it slow again; I had an appointment I needed to keep that week so didn't want to risk adverse effects. I had no pill on the Tuesday of that week in late August, and had never felt better in ages. I took one the following day; the old unwell feeling came back. I took no more pills from Thursday 26th August. From this day I felt really high and exited; I’d identified why I was ill and felt so much better. I just wanted to party and celebrate! I woke early in the mornings feeling exited and energetic; I felt like climbing on the roof and dancing to Meatloaf, but apart from there been no scaffolding up, I could never be that kind of neighbour so I quietly sewed some party clothes until getting up time. My partner and I had booked a short break for mid-September, therefore virtually all my spare time and headspace was consumed by organizing my packing which due to the vast increase of my existing executive dysfunction became a very challenging battle even with the most meticulous lists of where each item is, meltdowns were caused by having no short term memory and things disappearing. I realize now after learning about others adverse experiences in the first weeks of withdrawal how lucky we were that the holiday went ahead and I had just one very tired day during the stay. However, had we not had this plan I would likely have used that time to write this story and post on the group, knowing very little of what I know now, I thought it would be an introductory post taking around 15 minutes, which I intended to do if there was any spare time on the holiday! I realize now how premature that would have been! The nausea, wind, appetite and digestion issues, hiccupping, losing balance cleared up quickly, also the night sweats that had gradually crept up over the years during the premenstrual two weeks. I had put this down to my PCOS, and had not been able to find any solution. There was a marked improvement in my finger on withdrawal, and clear changes; a feeling of bruising in my thumb appeared and was distinctive on precursor days, and a few months later both significantly improved. Also I felt I gained some strength, though not enough stamina for physical activity I’d usually find fun. The quick withdrawal had the effect of making me hyper. (I did not know then that coming off 10mg is classed as CT, I’d thought that was lowest available dose.) I felt happy and excited about being able to eat better and digest foods I like, i.e., bread which I cannot digest when unwell just like after the glandular fever. I remember feeling quite euphoric choosing crusty bread in Lidl! I was actually hungry often, and I put some weight on in these few weeks; I had gone down to six and a quarter stone. It was a transformative time, I felt like "The Very Hungry Caterpillar!" I went up to six and a half stone in the first few weeks. People noticed I looked well, my healthy colour restored, as I’d lost colour and had become gaunt looking with a pale grey/blueish skin tone. I have gone through mood swing phases like this in the past as part of my disabilities and reactive depression. Withdrawal also came with easy triggers into meltdown, self-harm, lashing out at myself or objects etc. because of additional mishaps, i.e. short term memory difficulties and executive dysfunction which are part of my disabilities anyway became exacerbated, triggering my background of being bullied and punished for my disabilities, as I had no diagnosis until young adulthood. The following two weeks I frequently felt lightheaded, just as if I’d had alcohol. However some of DCD issues (balance and navigating shops etc.) which clearly had been aggravated by the pills, improved. However when I did have small accidents due to DCD (knocking into things etc. which may not have been more than usual) it triggered reactions as above. Even though I’ve spent the last twenty-two years, since my autism diagnosis seeking and attending disability activity sports/play and other disability and diversity groups, where people are kind, understanding and forward thinking, and I have gained lots of self-insight, it has become clear I’m still affected by the traumas before this in addition to other adverse experiences that led me to try meds. Two to three weeks after stopping pills I had a gradual decline with the "chronic fatigue" days returning and becoming more frequent. I couldn't understand it at first as I’d been so happy expecting the opposite, i.e. gradual improvement. However, some of the symptoms listed earlier (particularly stomach and bowel issues) did not return and the precursor ones seemed less problematic initially but kept gradually changing over time. The anxiety and sleeping issues with painful ruminating thoughts I had previous to going on pills have not returned, (I was scared of this returning, hence being reluctant to come of them at times) but situations that led to it have changed, (a safe peaceful place to live) which makes other issues easier to cope with. The inflammation, which I’d previously described as a feeling of swelling/bloating felt more distinct, and appeared to change and sometimes lessen, but although still problematic, there's gradually less impact on digestion, and at times more sinus centred. I felt disappointed at this gradual decline when I had expected a gradual improvement. In January 2022 I tried a supermarket antihistamine, after hearing stuff about inflammation could be a histamine issue, I was hoping for occasional use for relief so I could enjoy any events. Over a couple of weeks there was a bit of lifting of mood, and some headaches at the start and finish, but nothing has worked for the inflammation. However, I’ve now learnt more about long term health issues from prolonged use of these, so like other meds it's for the best. I had felt physically stronger and fitter initially, but after a few months and to this day often have a weakness, like a heaviness which goes down my arms, rather like a taint of pins and needles, or the feeling we may get after a drink but not warm and relaxing. Also it takes much effort to rise from squatting positions. However at times I can do more than I used to, although I’m tired all the time, longer and brisker walks come easier, though I quickly become out of puff through anything more high energy, which is frustrating as these are the activities I love, that at long last I have someone to share with, but I’m too unwell to enjoy these pursuits, and lack interest and enthusiasm, though I feel this is mostly due to feeling physically unwell for such a prolonged time. I would define the level of this as more uncomfortable than colds/flu, but less so than stomach bugs. I suspect that when on the pills which were clearly causing this inflammation, they were masking it at the same time. By and during winter 2021/22 I was unwell on average every other day. This gradually merged into most days, some aspects really slowly becoming less severe. From around January 2022 I noticed increased thirst and weeing. This ceased after during the summer, after having acupuncture and giving up coffee, but still wakes me in the night a couple of times. However, although that seems positive, I yawn frequently due to the tiredness, and this has become more problematic as often I’m unable to finish a yawn which became distressing when it hits at times like mealtimes and other activities I want to enjoy and get on with. The inflammation often feels like a yawn behind my face. Although I often feel poorly and very tired which makes my mood low, I feel happy and relieved every time I do little things which remind me I no longer have worrying symptoms, like household jobs without fear of the sharp pain in my finger (squeezing cloths, unscrewing lids, would even feel it when holding the hoover, or wearing rubber gloves!) Other minor issues have ceased, which I didn't know were connected such as I kept getting feeling of fullness/noise, bits of ear ache in left ear, like wax which would not resolve through the usual treatment that has always worked before. After learning about the common sinus issues in this group, this was likely to be the case. I started having acupuncture in June 2022. I felt improvement in hormonal and emotional issues. However, I had covid in late June, and although I was no more ill initially than a usual fluey/cold, it did appear to delay progress for a few months. I gave up coffee, which despite regularly reading on the group its often problematic and some conversations with my acupuncturist I hadn't wanted to face. However, it did turn out to be causing some aggravation of fatigue, which is well known especially if adrenal fatigue is a possibility. I gradually reduced it over a week, having been used to a daily strong one, I found some improvement to digestion and less extreme tiredness in afternoons. It was good to be free of dependence! I wonder how ill my body was becoming all those years on meds despite feeling well until the latter years? What exactly was going on in the background to cause such symptoms? The list of side effects mainly tells us what presents on the surface, but it's what's happening behind this that's really relevant. Likewise, I’m hoping now my body is actually at least becoming well, even though I often don't feel it, which is likely due to the hard work and stress of my brain and body healing, repairing, resetting, as often explained in this group and related sites. There was no obvious connection to the pills, as the yearly review and blood tests were to check for this, and literature stated that side effects were at the beginning of treatment. I had considered adrenal fatigue as it fitted with my symptoms, and also having had a background of prolonged stressful, exhausting and adverse experiences. However, it is now known that this kind of fatigue can be caused by these meds. The exhaustion I had during long term use was more groggy and I had to have rest/sleep during the day on a bad day, and much contrast between the bad and good days. Now I notice it differs in that it's more of a weakness. I can do plenty of walking and some light exercise but quickly tire, become out of puff with anything more demanding. I no longer can fall asleep during the day; the days are all on a similar level energy wise. The ache in my leg has diminished. I have little stamina physically and mentally, and increased executive dysfunction, but with a neurophysiological cycle, on average every other day, similar to the original precursor and unwell/inflammation days but with variations. I used to also have heart fluttering often, but this has settled. Periods are now extra heavy, which has often been very draining, and often severe pms which I identify as PMDD, which I’ve suffered with before on and off. It's manageable if I keep using vitex from the herbalist, and also the acupuncture contributes to hormonal balance and emotional well-being. Periods were gradually becoming very heavy during long-term use, and this has become more apparent during withdrawal which is draining at times. Interestingly, I discovered through the herbalist that the usually prescribed ferrous sulphate 200 mg is poorly absorbed; we only benefit from around 5 mg of this! Therefore I now use gentle iron from herbal shop, which unlike ferrous sulphate is gelatin free and most likely has less other additives. My sensitivity to clothing (which is part of autism and has been a lifelong issue) gradually increased over the years, even some items I was used to became problematic and I wear many undergarments/indoor clothes inside out but have to sew soft patches over certain sharp seam ends. Getting shoes and slippers has become virtually impossible, although there are other factors, (minority foot and body size and shape, less availability of shops). There appears to be extra imbalance of nerve endings, extreme sensory irritation in some areas, and lack of sensitivity in others, which is an exacerbation of the imbalance due to autism. The next thing I intend to do is write a concise factual version of this to the doctor, psychiatrist and gastroenterologist, and Yellow Card Scheme. I definitely want to look into where I can publicize this article, to add to all the other documentation. I talk about this to whoever I can, both formally; (I have an ad hoc job giving talks about Autism and hidden disabilities, e.g., to social work students), and also informally. I always recommend this group and the recommended resources. I have wondered if there was another way I could have recovered as effectively had I not accepted meds, although it didn't look possible at the time? If I’d have known the outcome of long term use, would coming off them years sooner prevent such issues? Although I’ve occasionally felt I’ve come to a turning point, things revert back to the usual cycle. Recovery is so slow I barely know it's happening, just like how the illness gradually crept up. The support and learning I gain from this group is invaluable, for myself and my mum who's also effected by long term use and withdrawal. I know delayed reaction long after stopping meds is common, and that it takes a really long time for the whole physiology to recover which is tiring. I try to accept and make the best of the here and now if I can, though I often find that impossible. Of course, for situations like mine, becoming so unwell in the first place could have been preventable. The time, energy and recourses taken by this illness and unawareness of professionals could have been used for my usual role of Peer Advocate helping others in dire situations. This is not a complaint about practitioners, but I’m hoping for openness to learning from lived experience, as opposed to sales propaganda from the pharmaceutical industry. This could go some way to alleviate illness. The words that come to mind, regarding many treatments and meds, which the standard info literature and many practitioners don't enable.
  11. just wanted to tell everyone that I have found this easier than anticipated but have been taking ibuprofen and paracetamol regularly to help with the symptoms, especially headaches and have found this really helps, also exercise. I used this method when withdrawing from diazepam several yrs ago and it worked well then. I am now down to 7.5 mg citalopram in the morning and am going to do this very slowly because from previous experience this is the only way. By the way, after every psychiatric drug I have stopped using I have discovered it never helped anyway.
  12. Hi! I just started to taper and I am in my second week of reducing from 20mg escitalopram. I already cut off 10%. What I find confusing: 1. Does it matter if I just take on ONE randomly chosen day 10% less (which I did already) or do I have to distribute the 10% cut throughout the 2 weeks? I can't see how the latter would be possible, given the infinitesimal amount that needs to be reduced this way, but I thought I will ask anyway :)> 2. Whilst I am aware of the huge variability in individual histories, I wonder if anyone here has been experiencing gradual tapering (as advised per medication here) and had withdrawal effects that were bearable and short-lived? In other words, if one does it right, generally speaking, and assuming that one is only on one antidepressant and all other variables are more or less constant, does it help avoid the worse of withdrawal effects? This is something that I am confused about. It is important for me, if any data, anecdotal or scientific exists in regard to this matter. Where can I look for this kind of information? Many thanks.
  13. Since tapering off SSRIs (citalopram then sertaline) I've had ringing in my ears and buzzing head. It worse when I wake up. Any suggestions on how to mangage this?
  14. Hi All, I hope everyone is doing OK. Here's my introduction. I'm a 56 year old female living in the UK. I've been on antidepressants for over 20 years. 40mg Citalopram. I've had some of my worst times with my mental health while taking antidepressants though for many years I just stayed on them because I thought they were doing me good. After all, I had no idea of what life would be like without them. During the time I've been on them, I've had very little drive or impetus to do anything at all with my life. I have had massive problems with sleep - in that I have always been tired. I can sleep for 12 hours and still feel tired. I don’t know why this is, whether it's a side effect of the ADs or just depression. I have felt the most depressed I've ever felt while taking antidepressants. About 4 years ago my sister came off Antidepressants as directed by her Dr. This proved to be far too fast and, as we now know after finding this website, she has been through what is described as protracted withdrawal. I'm glad to say that now my sister is doing so much better and though she does have bad days - (don't we all) - on the whole she is in a far better place for coming off the Antidepressants, in spite of the protracted withdrawal. Having learned so much through my sister’s journey, and being sick of being so lethargic and numb to everything, I would really like to see what life is like without taking antidepressants. I realise now this is not something I can just try - for a while to see how it goes. I understand that I must taper slowly and carefully to even begin to see what life might be like without the drugs. In May ‘23 I reduced from 40mg citalopram to 30 mg. I have found that one of the GPs at my practice has been very understanding. While she doesn't seem to know much about potential problems of coming off antidepressants, she seems very happy for me to decide how I want to come off them and has even prescribed the liquid form of citalopram so I can taper however I want to. At the beginning of this month (Sept ’23) I swapped from tablet form of citalopram to liquid form but kept on the same - equivalent dose. I am taking things very carefully. I have also done the initial assessment for the Bath University - Antidepressant Withdrawal and Maintenance Study, but didn’t fit their criteria because I have had a recent episode of depression. I would be happy to take part in any research that might help find out more about the effects of antidepressants.
  15. Hello After intense low mood I was offered Citalopram in 2017. Since then I tried to reduce it but the tapering advice I received was on a short timescale of around 6 weeks and I couldn't manage the lowness. In 2022-2023 I managed a reduction myself to 10mg and everything was fine. I am hoping to reduce to zero, although recent experience has shown me that my own methods aren't failsafe! I tried taking 10mg on alternating days over the Summer which was fine until I stretched to 10mg every 4 days. Anxiety was getting very difficult, more teary etc. Finding this site showed me that an on/off approach is not sensible... So I have gone back to 7.5mg daily (not precise-- I just break the tablets myself) and things are fine. I really didn't want to go straight back to 10mg per day - it would have felt like an anxious few months wasted! I went to doctor to ask for advice for reducing (a different doctor in the practice than last time). She was not able to order the tapering strips I had found online based in the Netherlands. Instead she was willing to provide liquid citalopram but said the tapering schedule should be a reduction every 4-6 weeks starting with 8mg liquid, -> 4mg liquid, -> 2mg liquid,-> 1mg liquid. According to your site, that seems too quick. I think I need to handle this process myself and would value the insight of this group to advise me on the best way of either continuing with tablets or moving to liquid. Personally, I think I would find tablet reductions easier to manage, with a decent set of scales. I have read some of the pages on this site about different tapering methods and the calculations seem a bit of a headache with the liquid! I think I have had a fairly good tolerance for reductions but I want to know that I have done the best I can to mitigate anxiety and difficult upsets in mood. Meanwhile talking therapy has been very helpful and the therapist is very supportive of me moving off medication and is well aware of the limits of their use long term.. Many thanks Thelonggame 2017 started Citalopram 20mg for low mood 2019 tried tapering off but schedule suggested by doctor was too fast, went back to 20mg after a few months Feb 2023 reduced to 10mg myself. July 2023 forgot to take 10mg on holiday for a week. Mood ok but teary by the end! August 2023 Tried taking 10mg on alternating days to see if I could manage the existing withdrawal and reduce a bit at the same time. Ended up trying 10mg every 3 days for 5 weeks. Increased anxiety. September 2023 returned to 7.5mg daily (breaking tablets myself- not precise) and feeling fine. Looking for advice how to sensibly reduce eventually to zero. Doctor offered liquid citalopram but suggested reducing each month starting with 8mg liquid, then 4mg liquid, then 2mg liquid, then 1mg liquid. According to your site, that seems too quick.
  16. Hello everyone, I am another who was previously at another forum which has closed down. I'm very grateful that there is another good AD forum as I really don't want to be doing this alone. I already know a lot of other members here. My history in summary: 2001 Had a baby, a few days later got hit with severe anxiety and insomnia, diagnosed with post partum distress, anxiety, and hyperventilation syndrome. A psychiatrist prescribed Aropax (paroxetine), Mellaril (thioridazine - an anti-psychotic used as an anxiolytic at lower doses to cover the SSRI start-up) and zopiclone for sleep short-term. Stayed on Aropax for about six months then tapered off over a couple of months, with just a few mild withdrawal symptoms. 2003 Had second baby, repeat of above process but with Cipramil(citalopram) and midazolam for sleep. 2004 Had just got off citalopram when a very stressful situation occurred at my workplace (company was bought by two other companies and split, our part then integrated with one of the two buying companies). Spent a huge amount of energy and effort job-hunting and not coping well with the situation. Eight months of unrelenting stress later had a breakdown, similar symptoms to before, decided to go back on Aropax since it had worked well before (stupid, stupid). 2005-2006 Work situation still stressful, kept trying to taper dose down but couldn't cope below 10mg. 2007 Crashed at around 5mg, straight back to 20mg. A few months later searched the internet and found information about slow tapering. Began a slow taper which went well initially. 2008 Crashed around April after dropping from 5mg to 4.5mg. Went straight back to 5mg which didn't help. Went through a couple of months of pure hell (stupidly did not updose). Couldn't sleep, eat or keep still. Off-the-scale akathisia, didn't sleep for a whole week, couldn't keep anything down, spent my days and nights pacing around until my feet hurt and I couldn't even wear shoes. Began relaxation exercises which calmed things down enough to struggle through for a while but unable to work to support my family. Lots of pressure to get back to work. Updosed back to 10mg in June and 20mg in July. GP prescribed zopiclone for sleep, then psychiatrist prescribed Seroquel to switch over to from the zopiclone. Nasty drug, gave me big muscle twitches in my legs. Restabilised by October, tapered off Seroquel fairly quickly. Began tapering paroxetine again in December. 2009-2014 Tapered at a glacial pace, some years hardly dropped at all due to instability for months. Eventually was doing only 0.1mg drops and for a while 0.05mg drops which sound so tiny as to be ridiculous but I felt every drop. Was afraid of crashing again at 4.5mg but got through it and am now down to 3.45mg. Last drop was 0.15mg instead of 0.1mg as drops seem to be getting a little easier recently. Still very afraid of crashing. In 2011 decided I had to get out of my stressful job/career, felt like I would never get off meds as long as I stayed. The lower my dose got the more toxic the environment felt. I think the meds had helped me stay in the job by numbing me out somewhat. April 2011 was offered and took paid redundancy, 2012 back to uni to retrain as teacher, 2013-2014 unsuccessful job hunting, bits and pieces of part-time work, feeling mostly happy apart from worry about lack of income. No regrets about tossing old career in spite of not really having a new one. All in all, far too many years of having these meds in my life, rather over the whole thing by now. If you actually read all of this, you deserve a chocolate fish.
  17. Moderator note: link to Waterfall's members-only benzo thread - Waterfall: What dose to try now: Taking Clonazepam on AD withdrawal Wow. I feel nervous. Like I've just stepped out onto a big stage. With big lights. And the crowd beyond the edge, of the lights, of the stage, is all fuzzy and indistinct, sitting out there in the dark. Is this microphone on? I chose Waterfall for my name, because it's one of those things that can be seen from so many different perspectives. A waterfall can be seen as a wonderful thing of beauty. It can also be seen as destructive, a changing force. It can be a small trickle. I can also be a torrent. They can bring life sustaining water, or they can bring a flood. Some of the greatest waterfalls are considered some of natures greatest wonders. But close up they can also be noisy and wet. It's all in how you look at it. And which waterfall you meet. Anyway. Me. Who am I? Well. A waterfall. Pretty in my own way. And also messy. Changed by the floods and droughts of life. I'm also philosophical, apparently. And I talk a lot. Especially when I am nervous. I've struggled with anxiety since I was 5, or so I'm told. It's been there as long as I can remember. The details blur over the years, but I think the first time I also struggled with depression, that I'm aware of, was in my teens. I've always struggled. Always wondered why I felt so broken compared to everyone else. And why everything seemed extra hard for me. I was first prescribed Wellbutrin as a teen. I no longer remember what I told that doctor. Whether it was more about anxiety. Or depression. But I didn't take it. I was next prescribed Prozac when I was pregnant with my first child, at 21. I didn't take it then either. I first actually took something when I was in my twenties, I took Wellbutrin for 6-9 months. I no longer remember exactly. But other than feeling euphoric about doing something, when I first started it, I never noticed any other change. And since I wasn't supposed to take it and be pregnant, I quit, cold turkey, to become pregnant with my second child in 2010. I have always thought that I felt no symptoms after stopping. None. But now I wonder. I started a downturn in my health mid-pregnancy, beginning a sudden flare up of something akin to eczema or atopic dermatitis, in response to a cream that I had previously never reacted to. In the following months, I reacted to just about everything. Ever soap or cream or perfume I touched. I continued to struggle with general feelings of ill health, for the next several years, until I was pregnant with my 4th in 2014. The whole pregnancy was really tough. I had been pregnant three times before, but this... this time was complete misery. I told myself to survive until the baby was born. And he was. And I crashed. Hard. Really hard. I panicked. And couldn't sleep. And couldn't stay calm. And I was weak. And shaky. And so after a bit of trial and error, they put me on Clonazapam and Citalopram near the end of the year. I used the Clonazapam for a few weeks while they slowly upped the Citalopram to 40 mg. And there I stayed. It was still a struggle for quite some time, but I slowly improved. In 2016, I moved. Spring 2017, I felt like I was slipping again. Slowly feeling worse and worse, and afraid, because I was already on drugs, what would I do if I crashed now? So I went to see a different doctor. She started me on Gaba. And a few other supplements to help with sleep and general health. And then, oh, clever me, I stopped citalopram. In June. Cold turkey. Stupid. I know. I don't know anymore what I was thinking. I only remember that I thought it was a really good idea at the time. And it wasn't a planned thing. I'd missed renewing my prescription, so I hadn't taken it for about a week, so I consulted with this new doctor, and asked her if it made sense to just keep not taking it. She agreed. Gave me a prescription anyway, in case I needed some again, or if I couldn't handle it. I never took any. After that I had a decent summer. I thought all was well. I still struggled, but considering that I can't remember not struggling. Ever. I thought on the whole I was doing pretty good. Kept busy, for me anyway. I've never been able to be as busy as most people seem to be. But we went to the beach a few times. Visits to the splash pad. Some quiet days at home. Somewhere in there the new doctor started me on something called MoodRx that apparently has St. John's Wort in it. Apparently couldn't start that until I had been long enough off of the citalopram. Spent the end of the summer getting lots of veggies and berries into the freezer. Started to get a bit stressed about a visit from the in-laws. Turned my house upside-down in anticipation of their visit. And they came. And all was going well. I felt on top of the world. And then. And then I crashed. Hard. Again. Sept 18. I was spending the day with the kids and my in-laws. First I felt a bit off. But I soldiered on. I panicked in the grocery store. Felt super nauseated. But I calmed down again. Struggled off and on throughout the day until school pick-up for the kids off the bus. Then I lost it. Panicked. And couldn't calm down. Felt absolutely horrible. And I've been struggling hard ever since. Sometimes I think I'm starting to feel better. Other times I think I feel worse than ever. When it first happened, I went to the doctor a lot. We stopped the St. John's Wort stuff. Still not sure if I was having a bad reaction to it, or not. I also stopped, over time, taking everything else. At this point, the only thing I'm taking is 0.25mg of citalopram each morning, just to help me to survive. And I'm starting to try to take some vitamins and minerals again, in the hopes that it will help with some of the symptoms. At this point what makes the most sense to me, particularly in light of what I have read on this site, is that I'm suffering from withdrawal from the citalopram that I stopped back in June. And possibly made worse by a reaction to the St. John's Wort. But I really don't know what' going on. I'm scared. And I just wish I knew what was going on, and what the right thing to do was. One of the biggest things I struggle with is the fear and panic. My biggest trigger is health and physical symptoms. If I had read this site first, maybe I'd have done things differently. I like to think I would have. I also periodically have crying binges, where I just can't seem to help crying, and crying, and crying. And I'm not one who normally cries a lot. But once I've cried for a while, it seems to pass again. I've had some of the darkest, most depressed thoughts. About everything being hopeless. And pointless. Sometimes I just get irritable. One of the other major symptoms is a chest pain I have. They've already listened to my heart. Checked my blood pressure. I've had a general blood work-up twice in the last year. Once this past spring, and once last fall. Nothing came up. My iron isn't low. My blood sugar level is fine. My heart enzymes are good. But my chest hurts. This last week, my heart has started a sort of swoony/weird/almost like a flutter but not really kinda feeling. And this morning I woke up with pain in my back and neck and arm and chest. The worst I've had yet. I could barely get up this morning and I almost couldn't turn my neck. Sometimes when I did, it felt like someone was stabbing in my ear, or in my throat or chest bone. I also struggle with lot of numbness and tingling in my hands and feet. And sometimes my muscles all hurt. And sometimes my joints hurt. And I feel weak. And sometimes shaky. And did I mention panicky? And emotional? Sometimes my vision seems a little funny. Or my hearing. But it comes and then goes quickly. And is gone again. I've developed a cough, and I'm scared because I had bronchitis and strep throat 2 or 3 times last year. And that was still on the meds. And how could I forget the heart pounding? Oh, I have lots of heart pounding. Sometimes I do things, and nothing happens. But so often when I stand up. Or go up the stairs. Or wake up in the morning. Or lie down at night, my heart pounds. And pounds. I don'y know what's causing what. I just want to feel better. I've seen several different doctors. I've also seen a couple different therapists. Mostly they say there is nothing at all wrong with me, except in my head. One told me maybe it was lyme disease. Or maybe not. My main doctor wants me back on more drugs. The second lady I saw recently also wanteed me back on citalopram. I tried. I can't. If I take it. Even one 10mg pill, no matter what time of day, I wake up the following morning, early, panicking, and burning/tingling from head to toe. So my main doctor wants me to try another antidepressant. I don't want more drugs, but I'm not sure I can do without them. I just don't know what to do. Today was one of the roughest days yet. I'm in pain, and I'm panicky, and depressed and it all feels so hopeless. Since 2014, when I saw someone who gave me, for the first time, a diagnosis, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and prescription, after which I improved, my husband now believes that's the answer. My brain is broken, and I need drugs. Don't I see it? That's the only answer. So he's always pushing me to take more drugs. Take more of the clonazapam. Go back on citalopram. Get a new prescription. Just take something already! But I don't want to. Most days i can make it through with only the one Clonzapam. And that's it. But I am having a tough time. I've tried different diet options. I've tired a few different supplements. I just don't know what else to do. I don't know who's ideology to follow. So like I said. Right now, I'm taking 0.25mg Clonazapam every morning. Just to survive the day. And I don't eat dairy, or use any perfume, in order to keep the reactions in my skin to a minimum. I'm trying to take a multivitamin , plus vitamin D, a vitamin B complex, and a multi mineral. I'm most afraid of this chest/neck/back/arm pain right now. I could really use some encouragement and some help deciding which course of action to take. I've done some reading on here already and found some helpful stuff. I'm just wondering what people might have to say that's specific to my case. Feel free to point out specific threads on here that people have already written that may be helpful. And in advance, thank you. Whatever you have to offer, thank you. It's been really tough, and I can use every little bit of help I can get. And to all of you who have struggled and are struggling, I wish you all the best. I wish you health and strength. Some of you are amazing, what you've been through, or are going through, and still making it through the day, I applaud you. Some of the stuff you've dealt with sounds so much worse than what I'm dealing with. I only wish I could be half as tough as some of you are. Keep on keeping on.
  18. "I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that I am in a state a protracted SSRI withdrawal. One of Alto's articles describes me perfectly in terms of a completely dysfunctional nervous system and paradoxical responses to most meds and even some supplements. The exaggerated alerting only allows me to sleep 3-4 hrs a night and my startle reflex is out of control (a bird chirping will send shivers down my spine). The most terrifying and unnerving symptom to me is derealization. It's as if I am in a dream 24/7. It breaks my heart not being able to truly connect with my wife, kids, family, and friends. The derealization has created a secondary self-sustaining anxiety/panic loop which compounds my other withdrawal symptoms. I feel trapped because no medicine seems to help (except for benzos which scare me) and I literally feel like I am dead waiting this out in hopes that I heal. " quoted from another member I could ever be a mother ( since there is no long term evidence on risk to unborn child). This seems laughable now. I live in complete dissociation and I'm unable to function. My depression is so bad I have hardly been able to leave my bed (psychomotor retardation). One psychiatrist said it was a relapse. But it is a different kind of despair.my nerves grated on - and a feeling that I cannot even describe. I only once tried to come off my meds, 2 years ago, my high-functioning partner said I should do without them. I couldn't function and felt constant emotional pain/sadness so went back on. I know it is hard to exctricate what is withdrawal and what is not. I went on them, off the back of mirtazipine and a depressive relapse ( from a traumtic indcident). I was still getting depressed on citalopram. This feels like a very different type of feeling. I feel pretty frightened that there is so little evidence about their long-term use. I have come off ssri's 3 times-- once at 17, once at 22 ( after 3 years) and do not remember symptoms like these. I feel, at 34, if I don't get off them now I never will but how long will this hell go on for? It's such a trap. It makes me think of the documentary of the same name, "The Trap" by Adam Curtis. He talks about antidepressants in it. Different family members of different generations have always been sceptical of the medical profession and especially drugs/pharmaceuticals. I think they had wisely, seen drugs introduced and then eventually recalled from the market and the medical professions role in this. I feel like I willingly went along with being a 20th century guinea pig. It always plagued the back of my mind that the drugs had been on the market for so little time, no-one really knew the long-term implications/behaviours of the drugs. We have no controls, I will never know what I would have been like living through my mid twenties to mid thirties without these drugs. I don't know if this nervous breakdown is due to the "truth" of my emotions repressed under the drugs or if this is withdrawal. It's scary to know that it may become protracted. I can't live like this- it's hell. I can't read up enough on pharmapsychology because I am so dissociated. I have been told that ssri's don't involve structural changes but like Joanna Moncrieff states, "we just don't know". Any help/ideas/comments??????????
  19. Hi, I found this website from someone's post who seemed to be going through the same as what I am. Sorry if this is long but I'm not sure which info is necessary! I was taking Citolapram for alittle over 2 years, mostly 20mg but I upped to 30mg near the end. I weened off them within a week but after almost a month I went back of them (20mg). I only stayed on them for a week and then came off them cold turkey. About 7 or more weeks since, I randomly woke up one day with PGAD. It's a horrible, progressive, non-curable disorder that makes your genitals feel constantly aroused, sometimes stabbing, burning, feeling the need to pee, zap feelings and a lot of throbbing. I've had this for a month now and feels worse these past 2 days (coincidentally I was pescribed Amitriptyline 10mg but after 2 days of taking them I decided I don't want to go back to ADs - apparently PGAD is mostly caused by withdrawing from ADs) I've had so many breakdowns because of this and there is no way I can live with it, especially because it can cause spontaneous orgasms and a lot of pain which I haven't got yet. I'm so scared and my doctors have no idea about the disorder and just try to convince me it's in my head which despite my obvious symptoms and causes I'm hoping it is. My history of OCD could explain it too. Before taking ADs I had a fear of farting in public which as stupid as it sounds, kept me house-bound for years. It went away after I took ADs and started college. Then a year later I had a bad sickness bug which led me to a fear of throwing up, with that I felt sick literally every single day and not always just mildly. I had tests but nothing explained it. Then I started hearing alot about PGAD just before mine started, once mine started my sickness has completely gone (so all this time it must have been in my head which is crazy because I almost threw up it was so bad). And now I'm getting all these symptoms of PGAD constantly. But I'm still not convinced it's all in my head because it is a fact that withdrawing from ADs too fast can cause it, plus I think I have some damage in my pelvice since I went on an exercise bike during my 2nd withdrawals. This gave me what I thought was piles in my perineum which went away after a week and then came back with my PGAD. I have a huge skin tag in my perineum which fills and becomes solid if I'm too active and I start getting a pain around it (in my legs/butt cheeks). I'm thinking I've damaged my pelvic floor and that these things could be connected? Although the PGAD didn't start straight away? I'm sorry this was so long but I am so so terrified of having this disorder, it is honestly such a horrible, embarrassing, painful and hopeless thing to live with and has always been my biggest fear since I learnt about it. I have so many things that could have caused it which makes me think that maybe it isn't just in my head. It's driving me crazy and if anyone has any hope or experience like this I would really love to hear from you. Sorry again for the long post.
  20. Hello all, I’ve found this website incredibly useful so I wanted to share my journey of coming off of venlafaxine (Effexor) with mild withdrawal symptoms so far. Context / About Me I was put on antidepressants in February 2014 at age 18 after I had my first severe depressive episode. Initially, I started on citalopram, then mirtazapine and then venlafaxine (effexor). I have been on venlafaxine for about 8 years continuously with no breaks. I am currently two weeks medication free and I have experienced very minor withdrawal symptoms. My first unsuccessful taper I annoyingly didn’t record my first unsuccessful taper that started in March 2020 but I came off 150mg venlafaxine in 6-8 weeks and had severe withdrawals (brain zaps, nausea and then return of depressive symptoms) resulting in what appeared to be a relapse* (I saw my old psych) and I had my medication reinstated. *From educating myself more on antidepressants, I know now that this was withdrawal from coming off the medication too quickly and not relapse. My (so far) successful taper using pill cutting method Feb 2021: Reduced dose to 112.5mg March 2021: I will have tapered but didn’t record speed, reduced dose to 75mg March 2022: I believe I then decreased further as I recorded going back up to 75mg 13 December 2022: I will have tapered but didn’t record speed but at this point, I reduced my dose to 37.5mg 21 February 2023: Reduced to 28.125mg (ish) 1 April 2023: Reduced to 18.mg (ish) 21 April 2023: Reduced to 9.4mg (ish) 10 May 2023: Took last dose of venlafaxine. I was planned to taper further from 9.4mg but took a shot to see how I felt and so far, so good. I was prepared to take my dose immediately if I felt unwell. Withdrawal symptoms I have experienced very mild withdrawal symptoms, including: - Most noticeable symptom has been that it has triggered an IBS flare up and my bloating is unreal 🤯 - Slightly off balance / dizziness - Fatigue - mild and only for first few days - Slightly irritable Major thing to note is that I’ve had NO brain zaps and no mood-related symptoms or anxiety!!! Resource recommendations Antidepressed by Beverly Thomson May Cause Side Effects by Brooke Siem https://markhorowitz.org (particularly his work on hyberbolic tapering) https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org I appreciate I am lucky in my experience the second time around as I know many people have to face horrific, permanent withdrawal symptoms. However, I hope this shows that it’s good to go slow and not to rush the process of coming off. Happy to answer any questions and I will continue to update on my progress! A
  21. I found the following information interesting. It was written by an ex physician from ICU called Tony Jay, in response to the question: 'Do serotonin receptors regenerate?' All receptors are produced by the cell that expresses them and all these receptors are continually produced. I am not exactly certain what you mean by the word “regenerate”, however the binding of nearly all (but not all) drugs, hormones, and neurotransmitters to receptors is temporary and occurs without directly damaging the receptor in any way. Whether a receptor is bound by a ligand really is dependent on the local concentration of the ligand. If a ligand does bind to a receptor in a permanent fashion then that receptor will not continue to function and the cell will internalize that receptor and destroy it and externalize new receptor proteins. Over time all receptors degrade and become non-functional. This is not a problem since the cell is continually producing new receptors to replace old ones. These principles apply to serotonin receptors too…. Here's the source: https://www.quora.com/Do-serotonin-receptors-regenerate
  22. Hello I am new to this forum. I have a particular situation where I had cut down a long time ago from 10 mg of Celexa to 5 mg and was able to stay in that doe for a long time. However when I tried to discontinue...i had severe withdrawal symptoms. I went back to five and stayed on 5 for over a year. I had eye surgery due to glaucoma and I believe that the cortisone drops have created a cortisol dysfunction situation. It seems that when I have stress I begin to have withdrawal symptoms and increasing to 10 mg of Celexa works to ease the symptoms. I will like to eventually get off but now I feel stuck with the cortisol situation. I am taaking a leave from work soon to see if lower stress help with my situation. I believe that I am reacting to relatievely minor situations as if they were threatening. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
  23. Hello. My name is A and up until 2007, I was a happy well adjusted individual (loving, caring and with a huge amount of empathy for others) with a young family, who was very content with life. Due to an situation at work, I became anxious, and this anxiety did not subside. I visited my doctor, who immediately prescribed Citalopram (Citalex) - will hereafter refer to as C). My doctor did not suggest getting off these as soon as possible, instead recommending I stay on them in case I had a relapse (do they recommend cancer drugs to patients in remission). The possible consequences of this course of action were never explained to me. I have been on them pretty much ever since (and when they were working they worked fine), but I have had several attempts to get off them, with no success. I instead became depressed and was put back onto C. My most recent attempt was in mid-December 2016, and initially things appeared to be going OK, in that is I was functioning as would be expected, but without the medication. Unfortunately, my mood deteriorated. I was again signed off sick from work, and despite a further prescription of C (which I have discovered I can now not tolerate - instead it gave me severe headaches and made me confused) I am now totally anhedonic. The question I would like replies to address is whether this state is likely to be permanent, and if so, how do those in a similar sad situation cope with never feeling any pleasure whatsoever. I know I love my family, but there is no "warm fuzzy" feeling inside, just this deadness, whereas before there was love and empathy. What do other forum members feel has been the cause of their depression - life in general (with its ups and downs) or the fact that they have been on an antidepressant for a long time without which, ultimately, their body could not function, i.e. it was the drug itself that led to a depressive state?
  24. Hi, I am new here and thank you for this forum and all your input and personal experiences. I am looking to come off 30mg of citalopram and have been on various antidepressants for 11 years I have also done CBT. I am interested in UK stories and how the NHS has helped or if you needed to seek further help rather than just your GP. Thanks in advance
  25. Hello. I’m 62. I’ve taken an SSRI (primarily citalopram) since ~1997 for depression. I stopped drinking in 2011, and participated in recovery programs (through my HMO and Women for Sobriety) for several years. I began medical cannabis for anxiety and sleep problems in 2013. Over the past ~2 years, I’ve lost 50 pounds (going from obese to a “normal” weight), and have eaten better and exercised much more consistently than before. I retired in late 2020. Now that many of my stressors are less intense, or gone altogether, and I’m taking much better care of myself (including not self-medicating with alcohol), I want to see whether I can return to being myself, without citalopram and its suppression of various emotions. I’d like to be me again before I die. My main psychological issue is anxiety (much worse than the depression), which wasn’t recognized until a few years ago. (I’d always just thought that I had “anxious depression“.) Knowing that the recommended dosing of citalopram is lower in people 65 and older, I tried to prepare for the future by decreasing my dose. I made very tolerable drops, from 30 mg/day to 20 mg/day, then more gradually from 20 mg/day to 10 mg/day, without severe withdrawal symptoms. I became overconfident, and dropped from 10 mg/day to 5 mg/day on April 15, 2021. I have developed more withdrawal symptoms, which are increasingly severe, over the past (nearly) 3 months: > Anxiety — was appearing randomly during the day; in the last couple of weeks, has begun shortly after I wake up in the morning and worsened throughout the day. The anxiety is far worse than anything I’ve experienced since adolescence. I have had episodes of panic that are much worse than ever before. I’m often shaking. > Dissociative symptoms. > Depression — I can’t muster interest in activities that I used to enjoy, have little energy, and experience waves of traumatic memories. > Neuro-emotions often have me by the throat: sudden, intense crying; a feeling of impending doom; feeling that I have failed in my life, failed my husband and children, failed to achieve much worthwhile in my (now ended) career. > Memory gaps and uncertainties, and difficulty focusing. > Physical symptoms, including odd skin sensations (electric current, over-sensitivity, and creepy-crawly feelings), occasional numb fingers, gastrointestinal issues (incl. low appetite); occasional facial pain; worsened tinnitus; chest discomfort. When I was depressed in the late ‘90s (which led to my starting an SSRI), I was always able to get things done at work and at home. I might cry in the elevator on my way to my office, but I didn’t have to take more than an occasional day off for mental health. Now I don’t think that I could hold a job with my current symptoms. Once I stabilize on 5 mg/day, I plan to taper much more slowly (10 % per month). Thank you for being here.
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