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  1. Hi, I will try to keep it brief, but I am in desperate need of advice. I am a 34YO Male, my 1st bout of anxiety happened 10 years ago when I experienced a very stressful time in my life. I had my 1st child, started MBA school, and opened my own business all within a 3 month span. Had a panic attack one night, and what followed was a year of high general anxiety, with some intrusive OCDish thoughts sprinkled in. After a year I decided I would give meds a try. Tried Buspar...did nothing except make me dizzy. Tried Zoloft, and this was the magic bullet for me. Felt my anxiety lesson (after a brief increase) after about 3-4 weeks and after a few months I was back to myself. During this time I would have blips (one to two week periods when my anxiety would resurface, usually requiring a dose tweak and then would go back to normal. These would usually happen when I was eating bad, not exercising ect). At the start of my Zoloft experience I at one point got up to 150mgs, but in the last 4-5 years was on the minimum dose of 50mgs after I got generally healthier and added a multivitamin and fish oil supplement. Because of these blips, and the fact I was afraid to go back to the year of anxiety, I stayed on the Zoloft probably longer than I should have. It was 8 years later (October 2016) when I finally said, "heck I don't need these anymore". My prescription ran out and I just decided not to refill it. I went through most of the withdrawl symptoms, some brain-zaps, lots of light-headedness and dizziness, ect. That went away after about 3 weeks and for 3 months I felt great, totally off meds and totally back to normal. At the end of January this year, I started to have another "blip." I wasn't eating healthy and not exercising as much and decided I would be "proactive" and resume the Zoloft at my previous dose of 50mgs to nip it in the bud. This sent my anxiety through the roof but thought my body would adjust so I continued taking them. I was so scared of the increased anxiety though I didn't give it a fair shot and kept increasing and decreasing the dosage from 25 to 50mgs every week or so. Finally got into a p-doc and he gave me Lexapro, 5mgs for the 1st week and 10mgs after that...long story short, it did the same thing as the Zoloft and wasn't much better after 7 weeks. At this point I figured, "wow I wasn't this bad before, I will just go off of these!" Well unfortunately my month of no meds did not return me to my January self, in fact it was probably worse than on the meds! So then the doctor gave me pregabalin, which helped a little, but is crazy expensive and not covered by insurance. So on June 1st I started Paxil, 10 mgs for the 1st week and 20mgs after that, hoping the pregabalin can help me to get on them. I really want to be off meds, but don't think I am mentally able to at this point. It seems quitting the Zoloft cold turkey, then reinstating, I am much more sensitive to these drugs, does that make any sense? So I am hopeful I can eventually give a med (Paxil) enough time that my body will desensitize to it, and I can be on it for a bit to get stable again, then get off. Anybody experienced anything like this? Will my body desensitize? I am so desperate to feel normal again, I am a father of 3 (10YO Boy, 7YO Boy, 3YO Girl), a husband to an amazing wife, and they need their Dad and Husband back! What should I do? Give Paxil the time to desensitize, then get off after a few months? Is the fish-oil supplement that I still take that helped me reduce my dose of Zoloft causing me to be more sensitive? Quit everything and see what happens? Thanks in advance for reading my story and giving any advice or encouragement.
  2. PLEASE NOTE: Member also has a Benzo topic here. I have now been off Xanax from a CT detox in the hospital for 2 1/2 months and having severe acute symptoms still from that that is a complete nightmare and has destroyed my life! Bad thing is I keep trying to tell the doctors I'm the hospital and my family that what I was going through was Xanax WD and they keep looking at me like I was crazy and blamed my symptoms on anxiety and OCD. So they put me on .5mg of resperdal and 75mg of Zoloft out of the hospital then at my one month checkup I got completely off the resperdal and they bumped me up to 100mg on the Zoloft which I have now been on 2 months. I don't think it's helping as nothing like I told them would help Xanax WD other than another benzo and now I'm stuck with the Zoloft! I want to get off but after 2 months I know I can't quit it Cold turkey so I looked it up online and it shows two ways to either cut down a dose or 25mg every 2-6 weeks or so and even slower taper of 12.5 % once a week too get off in 8 weeks and for me with how bad the Xanax symptoms still are I know slow is probably the best for me in this situation but I actually ran out of my 100mg tablets last night and I have enough of the 50mg tablets to start the taper tonight breaking two pills down to where it's only a 12.5% reduced dose. But I only have enough to do that for about 4 days then I'm out! The 100mg and 50mg tablets are different and I don't know how that's gonna screw me up cause when I get my refill it will be 100mg so I don't know? This is crazy my current symptoms are horrible intense head pressure burning and numbness in my head, confusion, dizziness, DP/DR and horrible evil intrusive thoughts are all the worst! Most of which I think is still acute Xanax WD but I want to get off the Zoloft as safely as possible! Help and advice please
  3. Hi. I am a former member om Paxilprogress, and as many of the other members I was schocked when it suddenly closed. I am tapering zoloft since 2011. I started 25 mg in March 2011 and after two weeks went up to 50 mg. I started due to stressrelated tinnitus and the panicattacks that gave me. But Zoloft was horrendous for me, and now later, I think I had an adverse reaction to it. I was zombieliked, felt suicidal, vomited and felt totally crazy. ((But the tinnitus got better.) So after downs and ups in doses (doctors told me to hold on) I started to drop for real in August same year. But now I was supersensitive. I tried to drop from 18.75 to 12.5 but got into heavy wd. So since 17.5 mg I have dropped by 5 percent of the previous dose, just enough to be able to function at work and at home. It has taken me 3.5 years! I feel better and better the more I drop. Now I am down to 2.35 mg. I, on the whole, feel fine with my drops. On the lower doses I have felt almost nothing. But I know I am super senstive, still. I have been able to (social) drink wine the last year with no issues. But last thursday I,stupidly, took my dose after two glasses, and the drank some more. Oh god...the day after I felt like I was in heavy wd. Akathasia, shaky, headaches. I think the wine blocked the zoloft out, like if I missed a dose (I have never ever missed a dose). This made me feel really scared. This drug is so powerful, still on a low dose. I guess I just have to keep tapering... Nice to find a new community! Amy
  4. I've been on antipsychotics for nearly 20 years after I had a psychotic breakdown whilst I was taking an antedepressant and experiencing several major life stressors. I've tried to withdraw numerous times but have always become psychotic very quickly. My memory has been affected, I now have diabetes and my weight soared as I put on 10 stone. I'm here because several people recommended this site. I currently take 300mg amisulpride plus medication for diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol.
  5. Curious to know if anyone can give me their thoughts on my situation. My GP gave me Celexa at the beginning of February for general anxiety...very mild. I took the Celexa for 2 days and it made me few worse. She switched me to Paxil (took 5 days) and it did the same. I had panic attacks, felt like I was coming out of my skin, etc. I then went to see a psychiatrist, hoping he would give me advice on going the natural route. He said he thought SSRIs were not compatible with me, but suggested I try Zoloft. I really didn't want to, but he promised me it would be worth the shot. I took it for 11 days and on the 10th day, began having unwanted, depressive thoughts. He asked me to immediately stop the medicine, so I did. I had taken 12.5 mg for 5 days, 25 mg for 5 days and 36.5 for 1 day when I stopped cold turkey. The unwanted thoughts and anxiety increased for about 2 weeks and last week, began to taper some. I'm 3 weeks into being off them meds, but the depressive thoughts have not diminished. I was never depressed or experienced anything to do with mood swings or depression before SSRIs. I know what I am dealing with has to be my chemistry trying to balance out, but it's miserable. The doctor says I should be back to normal by week 4, but I'm struggling to have confidence in that...especially since he didn't think the Zoloft would mess me up in the 1st place. I feel like I've really messed myself up. I just want to be back to my normal self like I was before all of this. I don't like having thoughts of hurting myself or others...it's not me and I want it to go away. I would love advice or thoughts from anyone with similar situations.
  6. Yes, it will feel like a miracle when it happens for you; and it will happen for you, it is just a matter of time. I want to get that out there first thing; it is my belief that we will all heal in time; it has happened for me and is continuing to happen and it will happen for you. Am I completely 100% done healing? No. Am I so, so much better? Oh yes! Now for some basics: Male, mid 50s, took zoloft for over 20 year, quit cold turkey 3.5 years ago, was off 5 months, thought I was relapsing, so started prozac for 3.5 months and then quit that cold turkey. Then I found S.A. and discovered what I was dealing with was not a relapse but withdrawal (and recovery). So yes, I did everything completely wrong and more than once! I am proof that given time we can heal. I currently just celebrated 30 months of being drug free. Now, how to begin to describe the inhumane torture that I have endured until very recently; not sure but I will try. I have gone through both the windows and waves pattern and the continuous misery pattern. I was one of those that suffered a great deal after quitting, but really got slammed at about 6 months off. At 1 year I was barely functioning; at 1.5 years I was still miserable, and at 2 years off I was wondering if I was doomed to endless suffering with no end. But now as I have hit the 2.5 year mark I feel as if I have turned the corner. Windows and waves general comprised the first year and then it became continuous misery for pretty much the next 6 to 12 months or more; and then back to windows and waves. My last serious wave was in months 25-26 and now finally what feels like solid progress the last month or so. I am hesitant to list symptoms because I know how much it use to scare me to read what others were going through; but on the other hand it really helped when a new symptom would start, because I knew it was part of the recovery process and not some disease or sickness, and most of these are gone or have become minimal although they lasted for months or years. And just because I experienced them does not mean that you will, we all have a very individual road to recovery; so here they are in no specific order: Dark depression, anxiety, paranoia, obsessive compulsive, panic attacks, intrusive/obsessive thoughts that tortured me, hopelessness, irrational thinking, suicidal thoughts, brain zaps, intense organic fear, severe inner-body tension that felt like my whole insides were clamped up, sexual dysfunction, severe tension, tremors and pain in the back of my legs and calves, terrible shoulder and upper arm pain, mania, extreme bloating and stomach pain, nausea, dizziness, vertigo, feeling like my brain was on fire, feeling like a part of my brain was missing, feeling like a bomb had gone off in my head, floating head feeling, super-hot face, body temperature regulation problems – being super-hot or cold, constipation, dehydration, lack of appetite and weight loss, feeling dead, anhedonia, akathisia, mood swings, insomnia, terrible brain fog and inability to think clearly, sensitive vision and hearing, inching and burning skin, cold like symptoms, head congestion, phantom smells, constant tinnitus, severe fatigue and exhaustion, health anxiety, I could not read, listen to music, or meditate, heart palpitations, random traveling aching and stabbing pain throughout my body, headaches, and so many other symptoms that I can’t remember. The torture, pain, misery, suffering and utter despair was never ending…until it did finally start to end for me and it will for you too. Did anything help me along the way? I tried many things; acupuncture, vitamins and supplements, alpha-stim, gluten free diet, no sugar diet, no caffeine, no alcohol, and anything else I could do to try and feel better. Did it work? In a sense it all worked because it kept me focused on recovery and gave me hope when I had none, and the possibility that I might feel better. But time passing has been the real healing agent; although that was the last thing I wanted to hear when I was suffering so intensely. I did find that mindfulness, breathing exercises and physical exercise helped when all else failed and I was so truly desperate. Many hours were spent just trying to pay attention to my breath going in and out; and I still use this practice as a relaxation method. It also helped me greatly to visit this website daily as well as Benzo-Buddies. I read success stories for hours at a time, read the Bloom in Wellness facebook page each day and anything by Baylissa Frederick and also Don Killian. So, what remains for me? I still have tinnitus (although it has gotten much better over the last month), stomach bloating and pain on occassion, nerve pain, some brain zaps at night, fatigue and tiredness, and sleep issues. If I had to put some percentages on where I am at now I would say physically I am at about 85-90% healed and mentally/emotionally at 90-95% healed. I now eat anything that I choose although I eat as healthily as possible because I value life so much now and I want to live as long as possible; I exercise regularly and it feels wonderful; I enjoy caffeinated drinks including regular tea and coffee which I had given up for many months; I also drink wine and beer a couple times a week if I choose to and enjoy it. I am in the best shape since high school, and have lost 75 pounds (on purpose). Life is good again and just the simple things are more than enough to bring joy and happiness. So that is my story and I hope it will encourage you as you read it that you will recover and become yourself again. I remember reading similar statements in success stories and thinking, “Yea, right, that is easy for you to say, you are not suffering through this terrible hell right now!” And maybe you are thinking the same thing as I did, but please listen to my words; you will make it, you will recover, you will feel better, and you will join me in loving life once again; just please don’t give up or give in and keep going! As I sit here with a cup of coffee and contemplate what I have been through the last several years, it all seems so strange and foreign. Success stories promised that I would make it to recovery, and they were right, so now it is my turn to tell you that you will make it, “You will make it!”. Wishing everyone here all the best and a quick recovery. Please let me know if you have any questions and I will be happy to try and help. All my love. Pug
  7. Fair warning: my journey revolves around PMDD (my menstruation cycle). If this is not your cup of tea, turn back now. Hi! I'm so happy to be here! Here's the short version of my story... I was misdiagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder when in fact I had PMDD. At first, the symptoms were bearable, but after my last child, everything changed. Suddenly, I was not able to make myself or my children food, not showering, not able to pick my kids up from school. Not only that but my self-esteem was shot and anxiety soaring, and I had about one week a month where I could gather myself back up and try to heal before everything started all over again. This went on for over three years. I was completely broken. During all of this, my Psych started throwing meds at me to see what would stick. Unfortunately, nothing would work, and I ended up on 6 meds for depression and anxiety. Finally, I had had enough and approached my Psych and my Gyn about a full hysterectomy and BSO (ovary removal) to stop the fluctuation in my hormones. By this time I had tried all methods of care ranging from DBT to exercise, birth control to relaxation techniques, and so much more. Anyway, I had the surgery, and I felt (and feel) amazing. Like I had been missing out on living. Unfortunately, I was still stuck on all six meds. And so began the titration. I began titrating risperidone at the beginning of 2015. It is important to me to get off this med because I believe it to be the most dangerous. I started at 1 mg, and currently, I am at 0.18 mg. I am taking a break on my titration but intend to jump after my summer vacation and be done with this demon of a drug once and for all. Here is a list of my other meds: Morning: Zoloft 200 mg Wellbutrin XL 300 mg Lorazepam 0.5 mg and 0.375 mg ( also take around 3 pm) Night: Clonazepam 1 mg Trazadone 50 mg Risperidone 0.18 mg (liquid) StuckOnMeds
  8. Hello everyone, I did not want to write here, because I consider this forum rather conservative, but someone should tell you that taking pills could be equally harmful as not taking them (which is encouraged here). Some personal scraps. Zoloft was pill of mine. I had been popping it for roughly 6 years, until the end of 2014. I believe sertraline wreaked havock in my neuroendocrine systems, triggered Hashimoto's thyroiditis and brought me at the very edge of secondary hypogonadism. Results was quite obvious: PSSD, heavy ED, no libido. However I must admit I really liked those pills. I was a peaceful, warm person of the former new age. Ok, sad jokes aside. I am in a second year of my recovery, I have tried almost everything, my latest discovery is Mianserin and I'll stick to it, precisely I'll stick to 60mg of it alongside with heavy load of Ginkgo Biloba. Now very serious. I am not the smartest of smart, but I will try to be a devil's advocate at least in this topic. I have been floating around for some time, enough to notice kind, but rather orthodox profile of this place, so I assume my story would not be hearthy welcome here, since I oppose clean recovery for many reasons. Before I start I want to say I could be gravely wrong, so took it with some ice. Nevertheless. Daily thyroxine pills forced me to be a pill-popper, so I thought if I could swallow one, I could swallow fifteen as well. And I did. I have some experience in PSSD, but I will not openly write here much about drugs, since I respect the local rules, but I strongly disagree with them. If one has only mild symptoms, go green and clean, it is perfectly fine. However softly forcing person with substantial alterations into drugless recovery is unethical and unwise, yet seemingly safe for forum authorities. Time is most precious what I have and I can not accept being put on 6 year more clean recovery boat. Loosing best of my years in the name of what? Absolute truth? There are drugs, poisons, antidotes. Dose (and time as I painfully noticed) could make lifesaving pill a poison. Telling everyone around here a priori that white pills are bad is from my point of view unacceptable. I agree that taking Clomid was somewhat risky, but encouraging to not taking is irresponsible. It is somewhat hypothetical, but I expect that kind of advice. Depression and stress lowers stuff like NGF, BNGF, decreases hippocampal size and so on, meaning it delays recovery. Acute stress makes my PSSD instantly worse, so I am taking Ginkgo which is reported to protect 5-HT1A receptors. I believe Mianserin is an antidote for me and I really appreciate stories like that from LouisSyfer. Chemical stuff which lowers cortisol, increases testosterone, supposedly disinhibits dopamine is more important than pleasant reassuring story like "I have recovered after 5 years, it was hard, but eventually I've made it" Waiting and thinking about being permanently damaged could shred one's brain into pieces. Moreover, you deprive people of placebo, give them at least Ginkgo which is famous for its delayed benefits, glass of milk, whatever. What I am trying to say is that natural recovery should not be so strong advertised here. I am not able to imagine myself being convinced to drugless recovery. Waiting. Loosing time and possibly brain tissue, since simple thought of being sexually incapable is absolutely devasting for a man. For now I am doing good. Mianserin helped me a lot. I know perfectly it could damage me, but also could save my life and I am fine with this. I am not saying try it, but also I am not saying the opposite. Best regards, I wish you all hope and recovery as painless as possible.
  9. Hello all. I'm a 45 year woman who has spent the last 10 years on Zoloft due to GAD & panic attacks. I had several years of "bliss" in that as long as I took my 50 mg of Zoloft, I was anxiety free. That all stopped when my husband begged me to get off of it due to all the side effects ~ and honestly, I feel like it's been a downhill slope from there. I'm off of Zoloft now but due to a really bad 2 weeks of panic and insomnia, I'm on Buspar to help with the physical symptoms. After reading so many posts on here, I feel that because I've been on Zoloft for so long, I was suffering from withdrawal even after a so called "successful" taper. Anyway, I want totally off of this stuff. I'm supplementing with lots of minerals, amino acids ~ have done cortisol and neurotransmitter testing. Also dealing with hormone issues and peri menopausal fun. Just so very glad to know that I'm not alone in this!
  10. Hello everyone, I'm Kangamangus. Been looking at this forum for a few months now and finally decided to post. I have been on Zoloft since I was 16 years old, I am now 25. It seems to help a bit with my depression, but it causes me some apathy/numbness. I have laughed hard, cried hard, and felt anger on this med, so my emotions aren't completely gone but they do seem harder to access. I have also had a substance abuse problem throughout this time period. Recently (may of this year) I finally realized my depression wasn't going to get any better if I didn't do something. I have since stopped taking all illegal drugs and I have been clean for 60 days now. I made the terrible mistake of coming cold turkey off my Zoloft in this time period too. I'm not sure what led to me to make this decision, but I think it was just a sense that the meds weren't really helping me anymore and poor decision making skills from all the drugs I was doing. I was fine for about 3 weeks and then I crashed hard. Extreme depression, flu like symptoms, and suicidal ideation led to a week of extreme hell. I ended up in an intensive outpatient treatment program where I was reinstated on my meds. I was also put onto a low dose of Remeron(mirtazapine) to help with sleep. I am now stable and feeling much better than I was when I was off my meds. Unfortunately I am now feeling the numbness/apathy again. Like I said, my emotions aren't completely gone but they seem muted. I have realized in this time period that I really do want to come off the Zoloft. It helps with my depression but I really hate the muted feeling that I have. I accept that I am one of those people that needs to be medicated for my depression, as it gets really bad, but I'm sick of the Zoloft and I'm very wary of going onto any other SSRIs. My libido and emotions are already impacted by the Zoloft and I don't want to risk those things getting any worse. My goal is to very slowly wean myself off of the Zoloft while simultaneously upping my dosage of Remeron. Obviously I will be doing this under the direction of my doctor. I have heard good things about Remeron, and I understand its much less likely to impact your libido and emotions than any SSRI drugs. I might not completely come off the Zoloft but I would at least like to try and see if these side effects that I hate so much lift up a bit. I'm posting here to get any feedback from members of this forum on my plan, and to see if anybody has any tips for me. My plan to taper is to follow the 10% cut that I have seen posted on this site before. Once i feel stable on the lowered dose I plan to wait for a long time before cutting again. Simultaneously I plan to increase my dose of Remeron to hopefully help with the depression that I expect to return from coming off the Zoloft. I'm taking this very seriously and I want to do this the right way. Any input is appreciated, and thank you for welcoming me to this forum. My current doses: Zoloft( sertraline) 50mg/daily Remeron(mirtazapine) 7.5mg/daily
  11. Hi everyone! I'm new here, I'm an 18 year old girl, will be 19 soon, and I took Zoloft from when I was about 16 and a half to when I was just about 17, so a year and 4 months. I've been clean of the poison since August 28th, 2016, so ten and a half months now. Since I don't think the drugs were good for me to be on to begin with because they caused a whole host of strange behaviors and feelings, like sedation and mania at times, as well as periods of complete apathy and feeling sick, not to mention the sexual problems, I decided to get off of them. Here's how things went: Felt better when initially coming off Zoloft. Much better. Perhaps more negative, but more energy, felt more normal, looked better, etc. Less headaches and other side effects. Happier...almost manic sorta. Sex drive increase and no problems with prolactin overloads. Continued like this (with adaptogenic herb, B6, inositol, and other supplementation) until December 2016. Sometimes wanted to "crawl out of my skin" also and getting more frustrated when my best friend wouldn't call me, less worried about what he thought. December 2016, my life crashed. My best friend and I had a falling out and he was distant for a while. Worst depression I have EVER felt for 2 weeks straight. I was stuck in my body, it was the worst feeling I have ever EVER had, profound depression, profound pain, I could not deal with it..so incredibly horrible. Definitely would not have been nearly as bad if I weren't only 4 months off Zoloft. Probably wouldn't have been bad at all if I were still on Zoloft..scary. Extreme disconnection from the body. This scared me because the issue was generally pretty mild--a friend being distant. The fact that it caused such a terrible horrible depression made me realize how hard this journey was going to be for me...my ability to handle stress and emotions have been greatly diminished. January--February were blahhh. He texted me again, didn't switch schools, we were friends. I also started taking tryptophan for serotonin deficiencies and the pain went away but the horror of what had happened still lingered and left me exhausted and terrified of another episode. I felt extremely out of control of myself and my life. Never would have felt this way on zoloft. March was terrible. He ignored me again, again intense anxiety, worse than I could possibly describe. Literally horror. Started taking ashwaghanda which, along with him reconnecting with me, made April and May more bearable. Sometimes felt GOOD in those two months..other times not, but it was really not horrible. A couple periods of intense pain, usually from relationship stress, but I recovered when things went back to normal. June..was fine. I'm living. In college now. Was pretty intent on committing suicide a couple of days ago..thoroughly convinced myself that I would do it and that I need to do it. Didn't do it. Probably won't this week. Can't take the unbearable social pain any longer though..it's putting a hole in my heart. I refuse to go back on those meds. Ever. They're awful and they still are affecting my sex drive..PSSD is there. Realizing that I'm at the end of adolescence and never had a true, hormonal, exciting sexual experience and the ability to experience that kind of thing will go away when teenage hormones go away. I may never be normal again. I'm incredibly upset and worried and cursing myself for taking those pills. Also feel really alone because nobody understands and I can't talk to anyone about it. If I weren't in a fine mood, I'd be ready to pull the friggin plug. All of my sexual experiences are awkward and bad, make guys feel like rapists, never result in orgasm, always lose excitement once any touching of the genitals is involved, and end up very VERY bad. Masturbation is 100X better but it still takes longer and isn't as easy to cum.. I feel hopeless and screwed, scared and worried. The same mechanism affects your ability to fall in love..I need hope. When will these things get better? Note: One thing I can say is the intense feeling of being disconnected from my body or wanting to crawl out of my skin has gotten better, which makes me realize that my brain is normalizing itself. I'm just worried that things will never be the same again, because of receptor problems or permanent brain damage, especially in the sexual department... Help?
  12. Hello I recently withdrew from two psychiatric medications, Zoloft (Sertraline)and Zyprexa (Olanzapine) after a 15 year forced dependency which started when I was court-ordered to take them in 1998 for depression. In Feb. 2014, I finally quit the pills for the 4th and final time. The withdrawal symptoms were quite severe, probably similar to those of heroin, only instead of the people who care for you trying to help you get off the drugs, in the case of psych meds., everyone is dead set on you continuing to stay on them. I went about 6 straight days without sleep while trying to get off the pills, constantly throwing up all over my apartment (my parents had to bring over a steam cleaner to clean up all the huge piles of vomit, while at the same time admonishing me to go back on the meds.) I developed extreme lightheadedness. When I would turn my head to look at something it would take a moment or two for my field of vision to catch up. I suffered from those brain shocks which I thought might be some suppressed memories of the many rounds of ECT that were administered to me, against my will, back in the mid 1990's. I nearly died on a couple of occasions during the withdrawal as my blood sugar levels plunged so low that I was forced to crawl to my kitchen and shove wadded-up pieces of white bread soaked in either oyster sauce, fish sauce or salad dressing (for proteins and sugars) into my mouth to avoid collapsing on the floor, but somehow I did it, I got clean. I had kicked the pills cold turkey three times previously (twice in 2004 and again for 10 months in 2005-6) only to be put back on them. The last time in 2005-6, I had been given the choice of either taking the pills and being given a bed in a local group home on a 0° F January evening or else to go rough it in a snowbank (I had been evicted from my apt. after falling a month behind in rent). The pills (Zoloft originally at 200mg that on my own advice I scaled back to 100mg at the time of my withdrawal. Zyprexa originally at 17.5mg that I had reduced to 10mg) basically ruined my health. Within a couple of years of starting on the meds in 1998, I had gone from a lithe and slender 6' tall 160 lbs man to a portly 230 pounder,, with all the weight gain going into my belly and thighs (Blech!). My cholesterol and triglyceride levels tripled. I had copious amounts of diarrhea daily. My blood pressure was absolutely wrecked. When kneeling down or squatting on my haunches, at say a grocery store or maybe a bookstore, to look at something on a low shelf, upon rising I would start to nearly black-out or swoon due to massive head rushes and would have to hold on to shelving for about a minute or so until I regained my vision and sense of balance. And from about 2006 on, I became no more than some sluggish, gorging hibernating animal that slept between 12 and 16 hours a day, sometimes as much as 20 hrs a day (watching T.V. was my only other occupation) where I would hardly more than move from my bed to the couch only to fall asleep 3 hours later for upwards of 4-6 hours, sometimes for as much as 10 hours. I was sleeping so much that when I woke, I often had no idea if it was early morning or late evening. I would have the most awful and depressing nightmares of being strapped into a dentist's chair while doctors would be cramming every conceivable pill down my throat in an attempt to kill me. The sedative-like effects of the drugs, combined with a horrible and untreated case of sleep apnea due to smoking and a severely broken nose as a teenager, left me completely fatigued all the time. I usually only left my apartment once a week to stock up on groceries. Since the harrowing experience of withdrawal, my health and spiritual well-being have greatly improved. I began a 4-6 mile a night brisk walking regiment and starting biking between 10-20 miles a day which resulted in me losing 45 lbs in 3 months. While before on the pills, I could hardly stay awake, now I can barely get to sleep. My insomnia is sometimes so bad (3-4 hrs of sleep a day, often none) that I resemble a real live? zombie (I call my condition, Inzombia) but considering how low my spirits had been on the pills, I'm just happy to live an active life again, even if I do suffer bouts of sleeplessness. I've spent several hundred hours since early last year either volunteering picking up trash from local parks and lakes or else helping out at a local thrift store and my creative spirit has flourished. I have filled something like 15 fifty page notebooks full of my poetry (both of a serious and humorous nature) and have written many short pieces of memoir, one of which is entitled In Servitude to the Devil, and is about my nearly indescribable and entirely hellish experience in 1995-1996, when for six months, I suffered from brain damage and akathisia brought on by the forced administration of Resperdine, Prozac and Paxcil. I thought I might end this piece with two short poems of mine The Psychiatrist His pills amount to fool's gold; his lab-coat: starched and anti-sceptically white He professes to be a doctor, but he's a neuro-nazi in my sight. A Reflection On Our Times So much lust and vanity under the sun Surely God is our pariah as we have our fun.
  13. I have been off Sertraline for over four months now, after having been on it for about 3 and half years. Previous 4 years or so I had been on other medications. Is diffcult to comprehend and explain in words all that is going on, but my whole psyche has been completely overturned in these years, and I do not know to what extent the various medications have caused me this. I suffer from the severest OCD,and anxiety, and now I think depression, and sheer terror at all my subsconscious thoughts which have completely taken over my whole mind. I have been imprisoned and castigated in my own mind. It is beyond explanation what is occuring on a millisecond basis. I seem to have entered some moral vortex, whereby I feel as if I am always doing wrong. Constantly confronted with "Heaven and Hell". Constantly feeling compelled to undo things, which for example I have written like here. Damned if I do or if I don't , this doesnt explain 1% of what is going on. It has brought into the fore the reason for everything and existence. I really have no idea what is going on, terrifies me the idea that no-one can have any idea of what is going on in my head. Yet on the other hand everybody is in my head, I don't know who is in my head and who isn't. Everything I say in my head is being judged. I will not go any further for now as I am terrified of writing, and also it may not be entirely pertinent to the subject. Unfortunately it only comforts me to a certain extent to know that others are experiencing their own hell, and I feel guilty in turn for the fact "that others suffering should comfort me', as I have entered some abstract Universe which seems to have its own laws. the ridiculous thing is that in the end what seems "right and wrong" seems to be determined by feeling and not some sort of formula, and I feel guilty in turn for thinking that, and also "convinced" on the one hand that it should be formulated and on the other "know" that it isn't. One of the main reasons for writing this post was the guilt and fear of punishment, or fear of damning others, especially close ones for benefitting from reading others stories and not contributing my own. To clarify alot of this stuf was going on when I was still on the Sertraline, and perhaps, in a different way when I was on other medication, difference now is that I am that so much more fragile.
  14. Hello Thank you for accepting me in to this group. I have always faced adversity and never ever took any medication. I always felt these were life situations that all of us must face - and that there isn't a fast fix - only time will heal - which it always had. But when my son was diagnosed with Acute Lymphoma Leukemia - I forgot all about the above and listened to my GP to take something for this pain that hurting my very soul. So I took Zoloft and stayed on it for 8 years - Then on December 3, 2011 - my GP and I decided it was time to start tapering off Zoloft. Unfortunately Zoloft only comes in 25, 50 and 100 mgs in capsule form. I had to taper 25 mgs at a time, albeit I stayed on that amount for 4 months at a time. Took a year and a half to finally get off it, which was on May 17, 2013. My tapering experience: I had litte WDs in the beginning - first was the dizziness, arms and legs ached, headaches, groin pain to the point where I had a hard time walking, indigestion, - all these symptoms except the dizziness and headaches disappeared. I was coping quite well all through withdrawals - but I didn't know what was coming, was not prepared at all. When off completely May 17, 2013 - again for a couple of months still able to cope with WDs. Then around 6 months off - WDs seem to get worse - visual disturbances, anxiety, worsen headaches, lightheadedness - pins and needles all over my face and chin, daily migraines, tight band around my head - DP, crying all the time - night sweats - morning anxiety - All these symptoms started mildly around the 6th month period off - then they just got worse and worse and around 18 months of until now there has been no let up at all. Day after day with high anxiety, crying every day, distorted vision in one eye I think caused by the headaches. I am literally in hell - and I wonder if maybe I will be like this for the rest of my life. Also recently I have lost a person whom I love so much, never to see that person again. I think my WDs are even worse now because of it. There is no hope left in me...- Zoloft is the only medication I have ever taken and do not take anything at all - not even vitamins.
  15. Hi everyone, I wish we wouldn't have to meet under these unfortunate circumstances, but here we are. I want to give a full introduction of myself and my situation in hopes that someone can please shine some light on me or atleast tell me I will be fine again, one day. I am a 24 year old female that has found herself nearly disabled by SSRIs. This is going to be long and i apologize. When i was 17-18 I smoked marijuana almost every day for 1-2 years. When I moved away to college I decided to "get my act together" and focus on school. I quit smoking cold turkey and this set the stage for a very frightening panic disorder leading me to quit school and move home becoming nearly agoraphobic for a few months. Obviously was depressed as well and spent my days sleeping to escape. After 3 months I went to the Doctor and started on Zoloft and within 2 months was back on my feet working full-time. Still had some anxiety but kept living. I stayed on Zoloft for 4 years from ages 18-22 and everything was fine. I felt emotionally cut-off but figured that was the price i had to pay to not have panic attacks. Also, I completely lost my sex drive. Because of these reasons (and my boyfriend calling me a zombie) I slowly tapered down to 25 mg and stayed on that for many months before quitting. For a few weeks after quitting a had annoying 'brain zaps' but nothing major, kept working full time and doing online college. I quit Zoloft in February 2015. Everything was fine until a year later when i started feeling 'not right'. It was during a very stressful time in my life. Working 65 hours a week and keeping good grades in very challenging nursing classes. I started feeling dizzy, off balance, pressure headaches, fatigued and a LOT of derealization (which I didn't even know was a thing at the time so I didn't know how to explain it. All i could say was massive brain fog). Not knowing what the heck was going on with me I went to the doctor after weeks and weeks of my symptoms persisting. I was told I had vertigo and tried motion sickness medicine (didn't help), I did physical therapy on my neck for months to relieve the headaches. They got better but i still felt so 'off'. Like something was missing, it almost felt like when i needed a cigarette after not smoking for 12+ hours but when i smoked it wouldn't help. Like my brain was just stuck in this weird dreamy fog. This feeling after 6 months was giving me anxiety related to my health. I knew something wasn't right but had NO idea. I mean, i thought it could be a brain tumor or something. It really started taking a toll on me. Finally, 6 months after these symptoms started my Doctor told me it was stress and seeing that I had a past history of Panic attacks he told me I needed my zoloft again or it could get out of control. Well, i certainly didn't want to relive my 'breakdown' of 2010 so I listened thinking, what the heck, if this doesn't help, then it isn't stress and its just one thing to cross of the list. BOY WAS I WRONG!!!! This started a HORRIBLE HELLISH experience that I don't know if I can come back from. July 2016- Re-enstated zoloft after being off for 1.5 years. One dose of 25 mg sent me into constant panic within hours. I was pacing the house and out of nowhere I get intrusive mental suicidal images. Scared the pants off me and off to the ER i went the next day. The ER doctor told me to keep taking it. I told him there was NO way in hell I would ever take that pill again, It was that terrifying of an experience. I had to call off work and had major insomnia for a week. My body felt like it was physically vibrating on the inside. So after that experience I go back to my doctor and he puts me on Paxil. August 2016- Took paxil for 19 days. Each day I got worse and worse. I went from working and being a good friend/girlfriend/sister/daughter to feeling no emotions except fear, despair and panic. I became horribly horribly depressed with akathisia. I had to quit my job. The intrusive thoughts were back and i was told to 'hang in there' by my doctor and that sometimes anxiety gets worse in the beginning. I was so confused because my first time on zoloft I had no start up effects that i remember. On paxil i lost my appetite, severe stomach pains, constant diarrhea, insomnia, akathisia, constant panic, intrusive thoughts, derealization, depersonalization, depression, crying, literally could not function. At this point my doctor wanted to UP the dose and I said no way! He then asked me if i wanted to go to a psych ward because my anxiety was getting out of hand. He told me to stop the paxil and gave me 90 pills of xanax. I tried the xanax 1 time. At this point i was so screwed up that 1/4 of a 0.25mg knocked me out and made me feel so depressed and like I didn't have it in me to even talk! Very sensitive. September 2016- got a referral to see a p-doc (symptoms got a little better for 2 weeks off paxil but came back with a vengance) intrusive thoughts and diarrhea went away. but was left with so many debilitating symptoms the worst was the derealization that i still didn't know how to explain. October 2016- Still having horrible symptoms, but now getting some vision changes as well (small sparkles of light in vision) saw p-doc who told me i could be bi-polar type 3. (what is that?! Anxiety runs strong in my family but not bi-polar and i wasn't having mood swings, I was catapulted into severe 24/7 anxiety HELL) November 2016- p-doc decided to start me on a low dose of celexa and buspar. I only made it 11 days on celexa before the akathisia and intrusive thoughts made me literally want to die. I added buspar on the 11th day and had a serotonin syndrome reaction with confusion, shivering, muscle jerking, goosebumps, severe anxiety, severe restlessness, zero sleep and felt like I was going to die at any given second. I have never felt so close to death in my life. My p-doc told me to quit taking everything and gave me Ativan. December 2016- p-doc doesn't know what to diagnose me with but wants to try an anticonvulsant (lamictal). I start lamictal and within 4 days my skin and eyes were burning, i had chills and a low grade fever and I freaked out because this drug can cause a deadly rash. This med also made my intrusive thoughts constant. I quit this drug and cried my eyes out for days not knowing what the hell has happened to me. I go back to the p-doc and she wants to try a liquid medication at a very low dose because I am so sensitive to everything. She said Prozac or Tegretol (another anticonvulsant) I told her i was too scared to start another SSRI, so i got Tegretol. Tegretol can also cause a LOT of deadly side effects such as a deadly skin rash, liver failure, aplastic anemia etc... I have NOT started taking the tegretol even though i was supposed to 2 weeks ago. However, i am STILL very sick from the lamictal. Holy Crap! In july i was a little dizzy with derealization and now i can't function! What i am guessing is that i was going through a protracted withdrawal from Zoloft and putting me back on it (and all these other things) just added to the fire. I feel like i am never going to get better. I just got engaged 2 days ago and cried because of how bad i've become and can't enjoy anything. My p-doc never even diagnosed me. She said i have some bi-polar traits because the SSRIs made me worse but she said it looks like severe anxiety and told me to take up to 4 ativan a day. I stay away from those because i don't need any further damage. I have been off any SSRI for about 6 weeks and the lamictal for 2 weeks. My symptoms are: Intrusive thoughts (never had before restarting zoloft) This is probably my absolute worst symptom. it is like my brain keeps trying to tell me there is danger but rationally i know there isn't any. unbelievable anxiety that isn't connected to anything. It is just here (my panic disorder of 2010 wasn't anywhere near this bad because the anxiety would end after the panic attack, this feels like constant) insomnia (never had before) cant focus on Anything/ poor concentration ( can't watch TV or lose myself in anything to distract myself) no appetite & GI problems that this creates Lost 20 pounds in the past 6 months, I have been drinking ensure plus to get in calories muscle tremors and twitches dizziness feeling disconnected seeing sparkles in vision every now and then derealization loss of pleasure, joy, contentment or any positive emotions depersonalization depression and crying (because of how drastically my life has changed) ruminations about what is happening to me not interested in anything feeling of doom terrible memory sensitivity to loud noises, bright lights, commotion etc. my heart rate takes off whenever it feels like it fatigue zero sex drive ringing in ears sweaty & cold hands and feet and last but not least a fear that i am completely losing my mind. I know a lot of you have been through a lot. I don't know where else to turn. The doctors just made everything 1000x worse. I am currently not working and had to quit college. I don't feel like myself, i know i am in there deep down but all my symptoms debilitate me. Does this sound like an adverse reaction or have I all of a sudden developed a worse mental illness? I do not intend to go back to my p-doc or take any medications. I want my body to heal and go back to who i was 6 months ago. Does anyone please have any advice? I feel so alone and scared that i permanently screwed up my brain. If you are reading all of this thank you and bless you. I never even knew someone could feel so bad mentally and physically. I wish i would have never restarted zoloft in july. I don't know what to do. I need hope that this will get better.
  16. Hi all, I have been struggling off and on over the last 14 years with what I thought was anxiety the whole time, but am now realizing it was more likely withdrawal from stopping antidepressants too quickly. The first SSRI I was put on was Paxil. I tapered off after 7 months because I never really liked the idea of being on an antidepressant. I started having anxiety a few months later and was switched to 50 mg of Zoloft. I tried multiple times over the next 13 or so years to stop Zoloft, but the anxiety always returned, so back on I would go. In the fall of 2015 I had a return of anxiety after reducing the Zoloft to 25mg and tried to go back to 50, but it wasn't helping, so ended up going to 150mg before I felt relief. I again tried tapering last summer and got down to 25mg and experienced increased anxiety as well as insomnia. My doctor switched me to Lexapro last October, but it only made me more anxious, so after 10 weeks he switched me to Paxil. I got up to 20mg of Paxil for 3 weeks and wasn't feeling any better, so finally decided I had enough and wanted off the antidepressants. I started tapering at the end of January down to 15mg for 2 weeks, then 10 for 2 weeks, then to 7.5, and after about a week and a half at 7.5 started feeling really anxious again. I found this site and decided to go back up to 10mg of Paxil and stabilized for about 2 weeks and then started tapering 10%. Was doing pretty well for a couple of weeks at 9mg and then started feeling a little anxiety creep in. I talked to my doctor about switching to Prozac to make the tapering hopefully easier, so a week ago this Friday I started taking 4.5 mg each of Paxil and Prozac. I have experienced some ups and downs with anxiety since then, and am having a particularly difficult time right now. Feeling quite anxious and can't sleep. I took .5mg lorazepam tablet and am feeling a bit better, but not sure what to do now. I was going to switch to just 9mg of the Prozac and eliminate the Paxil tomorrow, but not sure if I should continue with the half and half mixture I have been doing or maybe even just go back to the Paxil alone? This just sucks so bad. I know I have probably screwed up my system so much with all of these changes and can only pray the damage is reversible. I was feeling pretty good earlier today, but then started feeling terrible as the evening went on. Haven't felt this bad in a while. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
  17. Hello. I want to begin my introduction with a detailed case report on my hypersensitivity to sertraline… I hope this helps someone. I am a 21-year-old childless female who, up till recently was taking 25 mg of sertraline every 6–8 days. Three months ago, I began seeking professional help for self-loathing, difficulty in trusting others, and intense fears of abandonment during certain social situations. There was only one psychiatrist in my area still on Blue Shield’s panel. She quickly diagnosed me with social phobia and instructed me to take 25 mg daily for one week, then to double the dose to 50 mg daily afterwards. After a mere three days, I found that I was completely unable to feel fear. (This may have started even earlier, however I was unable to evaluate my emotional state during the first three days due fatigue and sleeping in excess of 15 hours a day when I began the drug.) Were a raging grizzly bear to attack me, I would have no appropriate emotional reaction to it, or maybe even none at all. Combined with the fever (at least six hours long), increased heart rate (30 seconds long), and hand tremors (1 minute long) that I would experience 20–40 minutes after taking the sertraline (half of a 50 mg tablet), and non-existent appetite, I decided to try taking 25 mg only every other day. This was sufficient to prevent the tremors and increased heart rate, but the elevated body temperature and lack of appetite persisted at this dose. (When I later lowered my dose to 25 mg every three days, the fever disappeared and my appetite would partially return.) I called my psychiatrist’s office to inform her that I would be lowering my dose as I found the fear-blocking too effective and the other effects troubling. I emphasised that I had never experienced those symptoms at the times that human interaction caused me distress. But for the next three months, the psychiatrist would maintain that these were manifestations of my anxiety and insisted that I take the full 50 mg daily. She ignored the fact that I was entirely incapable of feeling fear for those three months. I had many peculiar reactions to the sertraline. To begin with, for the first two weeks, I really wanted to be “a good dad,” as if I were already a father and desired to remain a good and humane parent. (I am a 21-year-old childless female.) And whenever I took the sertraline, I would also feel as if my two of my closest human relations were still alive… I wasn’t (at least not by typical definitions) delusional, I knew they weren’t alive and I didn’t experience any hallucinations of their presence. But I was overwhelmed by the warmth of their company, a warmth that I thought I’d never feel ever again. …It felt like I had come home again, like my feelings could reach them and their feelings could reach me. I felt love as if all three of us were together again. These spells would last twenty minutes, and all I felt like doing was hugging something to my chest and telling them how much I missed them. When these occurred at work, I mustered enough self-restraint to take only a five-minute break and continue working afterwards. These would be the only instances I would feel any emotion for the next three months. My strangest reactions occurred after eating foods rich in tryptophan: a euphoric restlessness that was accompanied by a wonderfully pleasant burning sensation in my brain. My partner and I called these episodes “the cuddles”, because all I wanted to do was cuddle, very vigorously. (I now think this was a “happier” form of akathisia.) My partner perceived this as the return of my normally energetic, cheerful, and affectionate demeanour; I had always been a cuddler and my hugs and handshakes had always been very strong. But, I knew I was getting high, so I began timing my sertraline doses to take them before eating red meat—to guarantee the high. These foods also triggered some other reactions—eating tuna sashimi turned me into a happy drunk, I was laughing harder than usual and even turned “as red as a tomato”, according to my partner. Cheesecake would trigger a burning sensation in my frontal lobes so overwhelming and do pleasurable it was almost debilitatingly painful, I couldn’t focus on anything else around me and had to eat very slowly, as I felt as if my brain would fry if I ate the cheesecake any faster. Now when I see cheesecake I get anxious, and if it is on my plate I even have trouble lifting my fork because the anticipation makes me weak. I’ve always loved cheese—one of my most prized possessions is the World Atlas of Cheese—so whenever I asked my partner to buy me cheese he didn’t interpret it as substance abuse. (Cocaine is an illicit substance widely known for its addictive qualities. Cottage cheese is not.) After a particularly good meal, e.g. all-you-can-eat at the sushi bar, I would be high for hours! I had to eat instant ramen on my lunch breaks because I didn’t want to risk getting high at work. Some background. My aspiration of fatherhood was definitely drug-induced, but I do know where it came from. The older of my two friends, thirty-one years old, was a good, strong man who had to assume the responsibility over a preadolescent boy and was basically a single father. My other friend was his fourteen-year-old ward, a bright and sensitive jokester who came to insist that artists had a responsibility to be both humane and truthful. His mother became addicted to opioids, and her male “friends” abused him; he developed very little interest in relating to the people around him, but was very gentle to anyone falling on hard times. My friends both died as pedestrians on June 30, 2016, three months after I had moved back to California in search of employment, and eight months before I started seeking professional for what my psychiatrist diagnosed as “social phobia”, which stemmed from a physically and emotionally abusive childhood. I didn’t fully appreciate it at the time, but my friends had been helping me work through my fear of other people. My older friend was a very caring, incisive, and thoughtful person, qualities which he engendered in my younger friend. He had a serious interest in history, which was his favourite discussion topic second only to jazz music, and he could easily have become a history teacher—he was better than all the ones I had in school, anyway. When guardianship was thrust upon him, he took the time to read parenting books and material on child abuse. I don’t know if he knew it by name (I certainly didn’t), but he was teaching me the foundations of DBT. His boy became like a brother to me, and we discussed art and played video games together. After their deaths, my unresolved social phobia, which was compounded by grief, the unpleasant work environment at the hospital where I found employment, and the painfully close proximity of my entire extended family that had engraved into me my fear of human beings in the first place (I had moved out of California specifically to escape them!), understandably led to a worsening of my mental health. When I was finally starting to heal, I myself was hit by a car while crossing the street, but escaped serious injury. I developed a reflexive hatred of all cars, my own insecurity and self-loathing was complicated by survivor’s guilt, and I considered suicide numerous times. I knew I needed help. I wanted psychotherapy, but all the mental health professionals whom I had wanted to see had been taken off of Blue Shield’s panel. I settled for the one psychiatrist in my area still remaining on their panel. At our first meeting, I was frank with her about my aversion to the idea of treating my problems with psychotropic medication, and discussed with her the objective vulnerabilities and subjective conditions that kindled my social phobias. She immediately prescribed me sertraline and said I that could obtain a therapist if the drug did not adequately treat my anxiety. I was disappointed, and remained firm in my believe that drugs would not resolve my issues. But at the well-intentioned encouragement of a close colleagues of mine (she has been diagnosed as bipolar and regularly takes prescribed psychotropic drugs), and out of the desire to meet this psychiatrist at least “half way”, I began taking the sertraline. It was in the first month that I began perceiving that I had lost all capacity to emotionally respond to anything at all, even the treasured jazz songs that my friends has introduced me to. I lost my creative spark, my interest in the world and art and everything else that I liked. Aside from my loyalty to my two friends who died, I lost all interest in other humans, and all capacity for empathy. At best, I felt apathy towards people in the same way a man might feel apathy toward livestock. At worst, I felt unequivocal annoyance and contempt, the kind of sentiment reserved for an annoying mosquito. The only reason that the people around me didn’t notice a change in my demeanour was because I was keen to keep up a perfect façade—if anyone had noticed a change, it would be more inconvenient dealing with that than with faking empathy and interest. I was aware of all these changes, and I knew that they were bad. However, I didn’t care. The only thing that caught me was the thought of my two friends. At times, I realised how sad they’d be if they saw how I’d changed, and for a little while, I’d try to be a better person. On my second appointment with my psychiatrist, a month after our first, I reported the apathy, the food highs, and the “dad” feelings to my psychiatrist. The entire time I explained the food euphoria, she looked at me as if I were crazy. I did not mention to her the “it feels like my friends are still able to experience life and that makes me so happy” feelings, as at the time they did not strike me as a bad or disconcerting thing. But I did voice the observation that perhaps even 25 mg every other day was too strong for me. But all that mattered to her was that the sertraline was effectively dealing with my anxiety, and she was pleased with that. As for the adverse effects, she insisted that I take 50 mg daily in order to “habituate” myself to the drug. I very diplomatically stood my ground, again raising concerns about how my heart rate would increase after taking 25 mg daily. She relented—but said that I should schedule my next appointment three months later instead of one month later, since I was taking such a low dose. I had enough sense to perceive that this was dangerously negligent in her part, and gently nudged her, saying, “OK. So three months is a good time to check in?” She changed her mind, made it two months. I didn’t tell her, but after this visit I began reducing my sertraline dosage to 25 mg every three days. After two weeks of this, I found that the food-highs were still too disruptive on my daily life, so I began taking it every four days. Even though I’d decreased the dosage, the apathy worsened, and my patience for people was shorter than before. I was beginning to actively dislike all the people around me. I looked back at my previous relations and memories with scoffing contempt. I mistakenly thought I was falling out of love with my partner. I even started enjoying being a psychopath; life felt easier if all that mattered was number one. In retrospect, had the sertraline been more stimulating—if I had only the compulsion or motivation, I would’ve been capable of committing the most horrific crimes without a shred of remorse or moral discomfort. After that second appointment with the psychiatrist, I began seeing the one local psychologist still remaining on Blue Shield’s panel. I expressed my desire to work through my childhood-rooted social phobia using talk therapy. I mentioned told her about the sertraline-induced personality changes with her. She quickly sidestepped the subject of medication and advised me to talk to my psychiatrist about any adverse effects. The psychologist said that the sertraline seemed to be dealing with my social phobia well enough, and suggested that I may naturally be an introvert and that the sertraline was allowing me to enjoy being myself, that I was too concerned with what other people thought of me and that I needed to focus more on myself. Though I didn’t care, I understood that her attitude grossly complacent. I saw this psychologist two more times afterwards, and each time she said I seemed fine and that there was nothing I really needed to work on (though my own drug-induced apathy would not have allowed me to benefit much from therapy anyway), except perhaps my grief—I refused, saying I wasn’t having any trouble grieving. I wasn’t being entirely honest. I said that partly because I doubted she would’ve been able to seriously help me, partly because the sertraline had stopped me from grieving or feeling much of anything, really. After two months on sertraline, I stopped listening to music entirely—it had done nothing for me and I gave up attempting to evoke any sort of emotional response in myself. I was determined to happily live out the rest of my life as a psychopath and enjoyed the highs that the drug afforded me. Ironically, the only thing that drove me to stop taking sertraline was my chasing of the next high—the last thing I wanted to become was habituated to the drug. At the end of my second month, I began tapering to 25 mg every six days for a period of eighteen days, with the intention of taking 25 mg sertraline daily for four days afterwards to get as high as a kite. But on this lower dose, I finally began to personally care that what I was doing was wrong and that it would be best if I stopped taking the drug at all. From every six days, I tapered to every seven, then every eight days… Interestingly, that dose was still enough to give me a buzz when whenever I ate a cream cheese wonton, and I began to want to be a psychopath again. (I think, as others have reported, that the steady discontinuation of the drug made me more sensitive to low doses.) But I sensed that I owed a debt to my friends—which I treated as if it were a business obligation, not a moral or spiritual one—, and persisted in trying to quit. While attempting to find other accounts of hypersensitivity to sertraline, and material on how to come off SSRIs, I found Dr Peter Breggin’s The Antidepressant Factbook. I was very pleased to discover that people who produce inactive or “dud” forms of the CYP2D6 enzyme are unable to metabolise antidepressants at the rates most other people do. I have not gotten this or any sort of pharmocogenetic testing, and I don’t intend to as I will NEVER use a psychiatric drug again, but I suspect I may be one of those people. In my third and most recent appointment with my psychiatrist, I informed her that I had tapered off to 25 mg every eight days but that even this was enough to blunt my emotions and give me a little euphoria when I ate cheese or tuna. I mentioned that I had heard about the CYP2D6 enzyme and asked if she was aware of any good commercial genotyping facilities. She claimed that a blood draw for a liver function test would be enough and that I didn’t need to resort to genotyping… It was on that third appointment that she finally started to take my adverse reactions seriously. By a stroke of good luck, I expressed a new reaction to the sertraline that very same day, just before my appointment with her. Prior to seeing her, I had to attend a mandatory employee meeting at my workplace, and I experienced my first ever hallucination in my life. Among the audience was an older gentleman—didn’t seem odd, he was wearing glasses, a clean business shirt and tie, trousers, had a white beard, and he wasn’t acting out of place. And he seemed familiar—I must’ve seen him in passing, he actually might’ve worked at the hospital somewhere. The only reason I knew he was a hallucination was because he was floating two feet above the rest of the audience. He faded away like a ghost after three seconds. When I reported this hallucination to my psychiatrist, she pursued a line of questioning that indicated to me that she had tuned out and believed I was being paranoid and worrying for no reason about an actual living coworker—“So, no one else at the meeting seemed to notice he was there?” I nearly lost ALL my patience with this woman. My reply was immediate and firm: “He was floating two feet above the audience!” Her eyes widened and she asked me if I was taking street drugs. (“No.”) She began asking about all the other symptoms I had reported to her over the past three months. She ordered me to discontinue taking sertraline as quickly as possible (of course, she gave no advice on how to withdraw from such a small dose) and advised me against taking any other SSRIs. But she denied that the sertraline was responsible for ANY of the symptoms; she wrote an order for extensive blood work (without any diagnosis, so the next day I had to return to her office to have her secretary write it in…) and referred me to a neurologist to get an MRI of my brain. (I am still waiting for my scheduled appointment at this time.) When I saw that the order included thyroid function testing, I asked her if thyroid dysfunction could cause hallucinations. She responded, “I really have no idea what’s causing any of this. A thyroid problem could be the cause of your mood disturbances.” (I think she was referring to the tryptophan-rich food euphoria, but I’m really not sure.) The only thing that she admitted was that if these symptoms completely ceased after a month of being off sertraline, then we could conclude that they were drug-induced and not organic in origin. Since coming off the sertraline, I’ve begun to fully appreciate how I was emotionally unavailable to my partner, and how I took advantage him for three months; that I was unable to like people for three months; that in those three months I could’ve tortured and killed anyone, and I lacked only in inclination; that I hadn’t sang or grieved or felt anything… I am ashamed and guilty over what I became. I feel worse than before I sought and “received” that professional mental healthcare. All I want to do now is apologise to my friends. I know I haven’t done anything wrong, and I know I tried my best… But it’s difficult for me to accept that I’m still a good person. I feel like I’ve betrayed everyone behind their back. I’m trying to be gentle to myself, to think about what my friends would say if I could talk to them. I am trying to keep in mind that despite everything, I was able to honestly and objectively assess my own mental deterioration, and I acted as best as I could under the circumstances. I do not want to let those three months destroy my soul after the fact. I’m trying to live… I’m realising how much I missed out on everything. I forgot how much I liked the grass, and rocks, and kittens, and books. I forgot how nice it was to like other people, in spite of my fear that they’d never reciprocate those feelings. I forgot how much fun drawing was, and how funny my partner’s dumb jokes are. I hadn’t used smileys in my texts for three months, and I even walked differently! And I hadn’t realised how much of my acuity had dulled until I got off the sertraline. It’s like I have to live again for the first time in three months. I’m not as confident as I was three months ago, and I don’t like myself as much as I used to. My partner has been very supportive. I’m now experiencing sertraline withdrawal reactions. I get disoriented easily; the other day when I left my workplace building and when I reached the parking lot, I couldn’t place where I was at all; like which part of Earth I was located in, let alone which end of the campus. I’m noticing memory problems; subjects I’d just discussed with my partner I would raise again only a few minutes later. I used to be able to play my favourite songs in my head, especially the pieces that my friends introduced me to. For a while I couldn’t remember the lyrics, the titles, the artists, or even the melody. My memory is improving, but those songs play like a broken record, my brain skips over parts and I have to listen to the song again to recall it completely. My stomach hurts every now and then. I’m sensitive to light, and I get akathisia now. The first episode was bad enough to leave me writhing and crying in pain while clutching my head—as if something were clashing and tearing away from the inside of my brain. Now, it feels like a bunch of fleas jumping on and nipping at the surface of my frontal lobes, not debilitating, but annoying enough to prevent me from falling asleep at times. My appetite has returned, but increased to the point where I have to be careful not to overeat or risk massive weight. I’m thankful that I’m one of those odd people who hears rainstick noises near the top of their spine whenever they’re hungry; now I pay attention to that and ignore the empty feeling in my stomach. I have sudden spells of sadness and anxiety during which I cry a lot, which I didn’t have before taking sertraline. I’m worse off than before I started taking psychiatric drugs, but at least I’m no longer chemically lobotomised. I’m trying to exercise my brain by the throwing myself back into singing and reading, and I draw more seriously now. I hope this case history helps someone. I’m looking forward to weaning myself safely.
  18. I've been on and off of sertraline for at least 21 years (since I was around 15 or 16, time is fuzzy), and most recently have been on 100mg of sertraline since at least 2006. When I was 15, in 1995, my psychiatrist at the time put me on Prozac, but when that didn't work he switched me to Zoloft/sertraline. Earlier this year I decided I wanted to be off of it, because I really don't think I've needed it for many years now, I'd like to see what it's like to be me without it, and the side effects are annoying (no libido and mind fogginess are the worst of them, along with the brainzaps and dizziness when I accidentally missed a dose). I'd tossed around the idea for years, but was always nervous that I'd relapse and just need to go back on the sertraline, but I've realized now that I am a much different and stronger person than I was in my mid-twenties when I had to go back on it last. I thought it would be easy, especially when my doctor recommended a quick tapering off (even my counselor felt the doctor's recommendation was too quick). She wanted me to go from 100mg to 50mg 2 times in the first week, 3 times in the next, 4 times in the next, etc., until I was down to 50mg everyday. I did okay with that as far as side-effects go, even though right in the middle my mother-in-law got horribly sick with metastasized breast cancer, a very stressful situation. This took place March through April of this year. Since that went so well, my doctor wanted me to then start tapering from 50mg to 0mg using the same method. The first week of doing that (skipping 2 doses) I realized right away that was too much - the day after missing a dose I had horrible brainzaps, dizziness, headaches, and fatigue. My mother-in-law got even sicker, and soon passed away, but I felt like I was holding things together pretty well emotionally considering all that was going on. In May, I talked my doctor into giving me a prescription for 25mg pills and followed her tapering method to go from 50mg to 25mg. That seemed to go well enough, although at the beginning of June I had a bit of an emotional breakdown that I associated with leaving a "volunteer" position that had turned into a full-time unpaid and underappreciated job. It was a big change and transition in my life to go from having all my time focused on that to suddenly having nothing I had to do, and even though I was not happy doing it anymore I was a little sad to leave. At the beginning of July/end of June I decided to start following my doctor's tapering method to go off of the 25mg of Sertraline, and this is where the trouble really began. Last week was my 2nd week of this taper, so I skipped 3 doses. I spent the whole week having horrible headaches and fatigue that I blamed on the weather (not so sure it was that now), bad enough for me to break down and take Aleve a few times (I usually stay away from pain relievers because I have a very sensitive stomach). Saturday night I had 3 drinks while at a family get-together (that's usually the limit I would stop at and be ok), and by the time my husband and I got home I was having an emotional breakdown and arguing with him for no good reason, exaggerating things in my head and being unreasonable. I woke up Sunday with stomach cramps and a headache, and felt extremely fatigued, foggy, dizzy, sad, achy everywhere, and just really really blah. I decided then that I would not continue the taper this week. I started having diarrhea that night, in addition to the queasiness, and woke up Monday morning feeling similarly. I cried a lot on Monday, and it took all my effort to stay out of bed and try to be friendly enough when my husband came home from work. Nothing was feeling quite real, and I felt so heavy and tired that I just wanted to lay around. Each day this week I've progressively felt a little better (emotionally and physically). I went to an exercise class last night (had to force myself to go), and was glad afterwards, although during I was experiencing visual trails when moving quickly. I only cried once yesterday, and my stomach issues and headaches seem to be improving. I'm thinking now that I'm going to stay on the 25mg for a bit to try to even out again before attempting a MUCH slower taper than my doctor recommended (I'm also going to find a new doctor, because I don't like her much anyway and this experience has sealed the deal for me). Is a month long enough to stay at 25mg, or should I wait multiple months? I'm trying so hard not to lose hope that I can be off of it, and I want to do it right so I don't experience the horrible withdrawal issues again. I've been thinking about trying acupuncture for awhile now because of a chronic back issue and asthma, and I'm wondering if maybe that could help with any withdrawal issues during tapering? Does anyone have experience with that? Thank you for giving me this space to unload all these thoughts and experiences, and thank you ahead of time for any advice and support offered!
  19. Hi, I do appreciate this supportive website. My story: I had been on Celexa for anxiety for at least 10 years at doses of between 10 and 20 mg. At 15 to 20 mg at times it really seemed to help the anxiety and lift my mood. Last Dec. I went on Zoloft because the anxiety seemed to be breaking through with the Celexa. (However, I now wonder if lowering the dose on my own was actually giving me symptoms of anxiety). I went one month on 25mg Zoloft, then 50mg Zoloft for 3 months. It never seemed to really help with anxiety or low mood, and also gave me GI upset with diarrhea. I decided to stop on my own, tapering over 6 weeks. While tapering and since stopping I have been taking Fish oil and probiotic, hoping both of those supplements would help with anxiety/depression. During the taper and since stopping, I have been having additional GI problems, plus very bad histamine intolerance. Foods that I had not problem eating while on SSRI, now give me headache, dizziness (to the point where I haven't driven on the freeway for 3 months!), fatigue, and flu-like symptoms. By the way, I would occasionally have these symptoms when lowering the Celexa dose, but then it would go away soon, so I attributed it to anxiety. So weird and awful. I've done lots of reading and discovered that in some people this can happen after SSRI discontinuation. One theory is that the SSRI has acted as an anti-histamine therefore the cells in the GI tract don't need to make the DAO enzyme that breaks down histamine. So when going off the SSRI, there is nothing to break down the histamine. I am currently on a low histamine diet. Trying Quercetin and Vit. C to help with the high histamine. The glutamine/aloe vera supplement made me feel extremely fatigued so had to stop. It's been 2 months since stopping Zoloft. Of course I'm praying my body will return to normal sometime soon, and fearful this may last a long time. My primary care doctor said the body doesn't even start to feel normal until 3 months post-stopping. I would appreciate any input from folks who have had similar issues, and would love to hear some positive stories of healing from this. Needless to say, will never take SSRI again! Thank you
  20. Hi, I am feeling rather desperate with increasing symtoms. Here goes: I have been microtapering Valium since 2012 without major problems. Also on Sertralin 25 mg since 2007. In september 2016 I accidentely missed a dose Valium, 0,30 mg and went into withdrawal. Continued microtaper (tital 0,03mg) until Feb 2017. Was symptomatic. Then started new batch Sertralin (same dose 25 mg) and the day after developed new symtoms - very dry burning mouth, dizzieness, derealisation. New symtoms for me. Called manufacturer who confirmed that new batch was 1% more potent. Waited two weeks for stabilisation which did not happen. Developed nightly panicattacks and agitation. Decreased Sertalin 1%. Better for one week. Now increasingly more severe symtoms by the day with occasional windows. What is happening? What should I do? Thanks for you advice.
  21. Hi all. I have been on a combo of Risperdal and Zoloft since 2012. I reached 3mg risperdal and 200mg zoloft in early 2016, tried to taper off both starting in June of that year, and had a bout of insomnia in November, at which time I reinstated along with an additional 15mg remeron. Adding the remeron, I've learned, was a huge mistake and most likely unnecessary. Since then I've slept at most 6 hours instead of my usual 8. For the first 2 months on remeron I avoided caffeine and tobacco. Then, after picking up both again, my sleep suffered, and I eventually had nights with 2-3 hours. I've since learned that caffeine and tobacco induce the enzyme CYP1A2, which metabolizes remeron, explaining this. By abstaining from both, my sleep has returned. I have also tried shaving a sliver off my 15mg pill with no luck...getting a full night without sleep. I would like to be able to drink coffee and smoke again. That leaves me with 2 options, get off the remeron (seemingly impossible) or tolerate the lack of sleep. If I do the latter, will my sleep eventually not recover even when abstinent due to repeated withdrawals? I had been planning to use coffee and cigs only sporadically, letting my sleep return before using them again, or using only on the weekends. If I that is not sustainable, then how do you recommend I get off the remeron, given my sensitivity to even a small dose decrease? My doc has suggested trazodone as a replacement, but that med interacts with my other meds and a post about it here scared me away. Thank you so much for your help.
  22. Hi everyone. I found you today while frantically googling for answers after another 'episode' on my Zoloft withdrawal journey to hell. I am a 42 year old mother of two beautiful school ages boys, and had been on 100mg Zoloft for 5 years, since the first year of the birth of my second child. I started tapering off 3 months ago in consultation with my dr, it looks like it was a quick taper after everything I've now read, cutting off 25mg a week, so a taper of 4 weeks. My life has been hell ever since. I've experienced every symptom I've read about, brain zap, headaches etc, but the worst has been the tears and the tantrums. I get so angry and cry all the time, I worry about how it's affecting my life and how much longer I can be this person. I have had suicidal thoughts, quite often it's the guilt of what this is doing to my children, my youngest mentioned that I cry all the time the other day, heartbreaking. My mother attempted suicide when I was 8 and the memories of that linger and so I worry about what it's doing to my children. I get so upset I want to pull my hair out And have tried, I,Ve bitten my bottom lip until it bleeds to take away the pain in my heart, there are definite windows with my waves, the zaps have seemed to stop which gives me hope. I spend most of my week holding it together ( I'm a teacher for gods sake, this is not being an easy process at work), but I dread the weekends, they are dark and scary and the worst moments, I know I'm waffling and probably not making sense, but this is the first time I've been able to release these feelings in words. Only my husband and my dr know about this. I revisited my dr, she was shocked at my symptoms, but it seems they are quite quite normal. I feel like if this carries on much longer I will ruin everything in my life. Jesus, I se no end, but I am sure about one thing, I wish I,d never taken this poison and I never want to go back on them. Thanks for listening
  23. Hello: I am new to this forum. I am tapering zyprexa. I was put on 10 mg in the hospital at the beginning of December. In the first week of January, I cut down to 8.50, then 7.5. for 10 days. Right now I am at 6.25 mg, and have been at that level for 1 week. They decided to put me on zoloft in the hospital as it "works fast" the doctors said, and is being used "until the zoloft kicks in". I am very impatient to get off zyprexa, and figured if I join your group, I would get support from people to help me be patient and wait enough time between cuts. Still figuring out how to do the signature. Will add it when I do. I am also on a whopping dose of 200 mg Zoloft, also given in the hospital. Before that, I had been 6 months free of Zoloft after tapering it for at least 3 years or even more. It was a huge disappointment to end up in the hospital and to have to go on it again.
  24. I’m new to this website/forum, but I’ve been researching and finding great information about people getting off their psychiatric medication. I’m 46, and I was 20 years old in college when I experienced my first full blown panic attack (official diagnosis, panic disorder without agoraphobia, generalized anxiety disorder, depression). Looking back (after lots of therapy), I can now understand the stress I was under at that time. But the main point is that I was put on zoloft and lorazepam which, combined with lots of “social drinking” seemed to put a lockdown on the panic attacks (though I would still wake up with some varying degrees of anxiety most mornings). I put my head down and just sort of pushed my way through life, graduating from college with honors, holding a job doing community education / organizing / speaking, shifting gears and going back to school, and then starting my own successful business. Jump to about 4 years ago, 2012 and things just seemed to begin falling apart. The successful company I had created was now failing, a relationship I actually felt invested in was failing, and the hangovers from drinking had become really intense. In short, I ran out of steam. I gave up drinking in the spring of 2014, and that summer decided I was going to get off the damn meds. I did it the “right way,” tapering off the benzos first, and then the SSRI. And though the anxiety would increase while tapering and it was tough, by the end of the summer (early September) I was actually med free! Unfortunately, mid-October the panic attacks returned full force. Again, I can see now that this was a particularly stressful period of my life, but of course I was really disappointed when I decided I just had to get back on the meds (the panic attacks were relentless and excruciating). The problem was that the meds no longer seemed to work like they did before. And now I’m on MORE meds (add in remeron and extra 50 mg of zoloft). I have made some changes, doing lots of therapy, ACA support groups (and looking at childhood issues generally), exercising again regularly, EMDR, meditation, etc. And I want OFF the meds! I know I need to do this slowly, and at this point, I cut the remeron from 15 mg to 7.5 (about 1.5 months ago) and I’ve cut the benzo (now clonazepam) from 2 mg to 1.5 per day (just started that 3 days ago). My thought is to cut the benzos first, then the last of the remeron. I know with the relatively long half-life of the clonazepam, I need to take it slowly. I’m thinking .5 mg every 2 weeks. From the information I've come across, it seems like some taper off even more slowly than that? I'm looking for others to share their experiences with their own clonazepam withdrawal schedules (for panic disorder, preferably). I just don’t know what to do about the SSRI (zoloft). I realize this website is about benzo withdrawal, but I’m hoping to find others with experience on panic disorder and SSRI withdrawal too (as well as benzo withdrawal support). I hope this is OK on this forum? I’ve been “working with the anxiety” (trying to “make friends” with it as they say in the meditation circles). I know I’m less scared of it now, but I'm also not experiencing the full blown panic attacks. My concern is that I would get off everything (including the SSRI/zoloft) and then the panic attacks return, and it takes SO LONG for the SSRI to build up in one’s system. Do I just prepare myself to weather that storm? Will that storm really pass eventually without the meds? After years of trying to make my physiology match the lifestyle I felt I should lead, I’m now accepting the idea that I need to make my lifestyle match my physiology. The panic attacks are just so damn awful when they hit relentlessly all day long, day after day. I’m scared. Is there anyone out there that has had any experience with the meds and panic attacks along the lines that I have had? Are there other resources out there I should know about? Is it really possible that I can live a purposeful (and perhaps at least semi-peaceful) life without meds after 25 years of being on them? Much gratitude . . .
  25. Hi everyone! Just found this site weeks ago while browsing the net regarding AD withdrawal. Sounds like you all have more insight to AD's then any doctor I've ever seen. It's reassuring there are others like me who have had many years of AD use. I'll be 47 years young next month and have been taking Zoloft/Sertraline since the early 90's. It's been a looooong time! 22 years I believe. Matter of fact, there wasn't even a generic available for Zoloft when I started taking it, it's been so long. I've been on 100mg/day since the beginning. I've tried 50mg/day for a while and been as high as 150mg/day but only for a short period. Currently still on 100mg/day, seems to be my sweet spot. Anyway, like many people out there, I was diagnosed with Dysthymia in my 20's and was promptly put on Zoloft while having a major depressive episode. I sought therapy during that time and they thought Zoloft would be an excellent option for me during that gloomy year. Fast forward 20+ years and I think it was the worst option they could have suggested during that time. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say. It is what it is now. I was an excellent responder to Zoloft. After a small adjustment to the med life was really excellent for a long long time. I had probably 15 good years on this AD with very few side effects. Things like emotional blunting, mild anorgasmia, foggy head syndrome were just a few sides that have persisted thoughout the years. As I get older, these side effects have seemed to get worse despite living a very healthy lifestyle. Many of the doctors I've seen over the years all have said that I could expect to be on Zoloft for the rest of my life and that it's ok that I am. Not so sure I agree with that. I've been married for 19 years to the same wonderful supportive woman. I've been at my same job for 25 years, make a decent income and have very few external stressors. I have nothing to complain about in my life. So I keep asking myself why am I still on an AD? I think some of it has been complacency. If zoloft is working so good then why quit taking it, right? It did work wonders for a long long time, so basically for a while I wrote it off as something I would be on forever and just live with the side effects until the day I die. I guess I could live with that and go on with my life. But what happens when the same drug you have been taking for 22 years starts to lose it's effectiveness? That's what seems to be happening over the last few years now. Many years ago I tried to wean of zoloft without any luck. Back then I had no idea what I was doing and neither did the doctor I was seeing. I look back and think about the 50% weaning schedule my doctor had suggested and just shake my head. No wonder it was so horrible. Needless to say I quickly reinstated and went on with my life. From all the reading I've been doing I now know that was the worst thing I could have done. A few months ago I found a really excellent doctor that specializes in integrative health. Although he doesn't specialize in Psychiatry, he really "gets it" compared to other doctors that simply want to push pills on you. He really understands how weaning works and also suggested the 10% weaning schedule you all advocate as well. I think I'm a pivotal point in my life regarding my AD. I don't think it's working very good anymore. I can detect very small withdrawal symptoms while on the same dose I've had for years. I think this tells me it's pooping out on me. My life circumstances are as stable as they will ever be so I feel this is a good time to start my journey. I know it will be really difficult and I'm willing to accept the fact that there is no deadline to finish my taper. I'll take it one day at a time. Hopefully with your support I can some day successfully be free from AD's forever. I Hope to get to know some of you on the forum. My intro was a little long so if you made it to the bottom thanks for listening All the best, Rob