marie123: tapering trazodone

[Altostrata]

merged topics into Marie's Intro topic. Marie, you will want to be good and stable for a month or so before you try tip-toeing off.

[marie123]

Today I'm feeling lousy and I am still in a wave of sorts. I am getting achy tingling hands and feet that is mostly on my left side. Coincidentally or not, the sciatica is on my left side. It really bothered me today perhaps because of the rainy weather and at first decided not to take ibuprofen. The PT was also a bit rough with his massaging my calf. I have to tell him to be gentle with that. The more and more I think about I believe the sciatica is related to withdrawal. I have been reading that with benzo withdrawal the left side is usually affected with issues like pain, tingling etc. After all I'm 21 months out from Ambien and it could be a benzo wave.

 

I never felt any Ambien withdrawal only some insomnia for a couple months. Maybe Ambien withdrawal was covered up by Trazodone and now I feel it because I am now on a low dose Traz?

 

When I have a day of feeling lousy I want to start tapering the Trazodone thinking I might feel a bit better. I guess that's only natural. I've stopped magnesium that I started a few days ago thinking it might be revving me up. I hope tomorrow will be a better day. If it's one thing I know is not to make a decision when you're not feeling well.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

Oh, Marie, I have gone through an Ambien withdrawal of sorts.  I had to cross over to valium at the time.  I crossed over from 10 mg. ambien to 5 mg. valium.  I hated doing that but it got me through with no ambien withdrawal and on 3 drugs instead of 4 and a longer half-life drug as well.  That is why the valium covered it. 

 

I haven't taken an ambien in 5 1/2 years after nightly dosing of 10 mg. for 8 years and sometimes up to 20 mg!  During the time I was on ambien I had severe body pain, especially in my back and sciatic area.  It made me physically disabled, really.  I was in a lot of pain all the time, but especially as the day went on and the ambien left my body.  I now look back over those years since Ambien and I see that my back/sciatic/neck/shoulder pain are all markedly better.  They aren't perfect as I have little to no muscle and can't do strengthening w/o awakening the degenerated discs in my neck and back.  The point is, there were side effects, I believe, to ambien that I couldn't attribute to it, until I got off of it for quite a long time.  I think I started realizing that I had less body pain about two years ago, so that would have been  3 1/2 years off ambien.  Ambien is under-rated, I believe, as to the damage it does to our physical bodies.

 

The point is the trazodone probably has been covering the ambien withdrawal all this time.  The good news is the ambien is fully out of your body.  The trazodone will be gone eventually too.  This is all temporary.  I do think, however, that any thoughts of tapering mirtazapine should be very carefully  considered as the mirtazapine can be covering the more severe effects of w/d from ambien and trazodone.

 

Gosh, I understand how you feel so much.  I have had a 2 week window, then a  long wave during this long hold, and then a short window (3 days) and am starting another wave. It gets discouraging and makes one doubt oneself about the holding versus the tapering...it's a tortuous loop that plays over and over again in my brain.  For now, I choose to firmly believe and accept that every day I hold, my brain is getting healed and ready for some more remodeling.  I didn't get this way overnight.  Perhaps it is going to take me as long to taper as I was on the drugs.  Hopefully, I will live that long.

 

Hope you like your new purse.

 

BTW, my sciatic pain was on my left side.  I never knew that w/d pain generally goes left.

 

Grace

[marie123]

I think I have restless legs. I am still able to sleep (last night I got 7 hours yay) but they feel tingly, achy and a bit numb at the same time.  I have the urge to stretch them. This had been happening for a week coinciding with the left leg sciatica. Also have had the hands restless too. Today the hands calmed down.

 

I went out and purchased Hyland's Restful Legs at my local CVS. I couldn't find it at first in the maze of vitamins and ibuprofen, but the very handsome pharmacist came out from behind the counter and found it for me down the aisle. He made my day.

 

Anyhow, I took two of them with the dosage being 2 or 3. They're sublingual and melt easily under the tongue. Guess what, I think it's helping. It could be placebo, but will take a few more this evening if the legs feel bad and see what happens.

 

I'll report back either way.

 

Be well folks.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

Marie,

 

Even if it is just placebo, great!

 

RLS landed me on klonopin 15 years ago. My RLS was so bad I would have paid to have my legs cut off! I needed to shake and move them constantly day and night. Perhaps this isn't RLS or maybe it is.

 

The last cut I made gave me RLS. I used magnesium spray on my legs for two nights. I think it worked or it was just a placebo. I wonder if the supplement has magnesium in it?

 

7 hours sleep is amazing! Can't imagine it really.

 

Grace

[marie123]

I've decided to start my taper in another week since I'm about as stable as I'll ever be. I feel nauseous and weak. I felt the same (worse maybe) when I was in withdrawal.  I will cut from 8 mg (pill weight) to 7 mg (pill weight). It's 1.3 mg Traz now and will be 1.1 mg Traz after I cut. It seems last time I cut I was feeling pretty good for a couple of weeks. That tells me I need to cut and not hold for too long.

 

The sciatica and restless leg is gone. I think it was from the Trazodone. Some of it is toxic s/e's as I am growing more and more tolerant of Trazodone. Of course some of it is withdrawals. My hope is that the cns has done a lot of catching up since I jumped Jan 1st until now.

 

When I jump I know what to expect at least. I hope if I get hit with w/d it is right away instead of delayed a lot.

 

Marie

[marie123]

I had a great big window today . Everything was clearer, brighter. and my sense of taste was magnified. Food tasted wonderful. I was still symptomatic, but it was a lot milder today.

 

I feel healing happening and noticed that this window came after feeling very badly yesterday. It seems the wave means a great window is next.

 

I hope making a cut next week will improve some of my symptoms, which is a combination of withdrawal and side effects from Traz.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

So nice to hear, Marie. It's so true that those wonderful Windows often come right after a horrible wave...like a rainbow after a storm!

 

Grace

[marie123]

Hi Grace. Well I guess it's back to a storm as the beautiful window closed. It was great for the whole day and everything was just magnified in a wonderful way.  I got very little sleep last night so today I feel lousy of course. I have to assume this was a window on the Trazodone withdrawal, not Ambien. I never felt windows/waves with Ambien really. This shows me that healing is real and will happen completely at some point. It's time to start my taper again. I am not sure how slow or fast I should go since I feel that I've developed tolerance to the Trazodone. Maybe quicker than 10%?. It's such a hard call. Nausea has come back on Traz and that's what I was trying to eliminate from when I jumped off. I can't go higher because of adverse effects.Hmmm, I hope I do this right.

 

Any advice or suggestions are appreciated.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

Hi Marie,

 

Just hold on knowing windows will happen again. I am sorry that that just isn't enough for us at times, but we have to focus on the healing that is happening through the pain.

 

Grace

[marie123]

Today I woke up with bad indigestion and I figured out why. My little cracker that I eat when I wake up caused the indigestion. Took some apple cider vinegar that helped. Later took a DGL before dinner and that really was helpful. Put my accupressure bands on as I was getting nausea from the acid reflux. My gut is my main problem these days.

 

My head is getting clearer and clear, no more Traz/Ambien fogginess. Dizziness is improving along with my gait. I slept great last night probably because the night before I barely slept.

 

I have a big trip coming up in a week. I've been going back and forth about cancelling it (I have insurance). It's all the way from the east coast to California to visit family. My sciatica calmed down, but my withdrawal symptoms are unpredictable. Nights and most afternoons are usually very good, the AM not so much. I guess I could just crash in my hotel room if need be. The long flight will be ok if my symptoms don't start kicking in. I made sure to have afternoon flights. I could occupy my time by movies, crosswords, and trashy magazines along with trips to the bathroom. Maybe I'll turn my airplane seat into my own personal spa and get a lavender neck pillow, lavender lotion, a cozy wrap, and some chamomile tea bags.

 

I will have to figure out how to dose with the time difference. I don't want to throw things off at this point. I could take the tiny Traz dose 3 hours earlier no problem, but the Remeron dose will put me out at 8:00 pm CA time if I dose it at the correct time. Any suggestions about what to do about that?

 

Marie

[marie123]

Hello window . This is very nice because every morning for the past week or two I've been nauseous every AM. One thing that I did was stop the ibuprofen that I suspected was causing this. I was taking 400 mg every day. I also made a cut from the Trazodone from 1.3 mg to 1.1 mg. I've also suspected that I've developed a tolerance to Traz, but I must balance the cutting by not going too fast but fast enough to relieve the tolerance. It's a delicate balance but I'm determined to win. I may make the next cut in 3 weeks, but I'll see how I feel.

 

If I am on a windows and waves pattern my hope is to have it balance out by the time I jump. Wish me luck.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

Hi Marie,

 

So glad to hear you are having another window.  It makes total sense to me that the ibuprofen could have been making you nauseous.  I had to give up all analgesics, even tylenol, several years ago as they hurt my stomach a lot.  Aggravating your stomach will likely cause nausea.

 

I have a question that I wish someone would explain to me.  I feel like there is something I am just not understanding.  You wrote...

 

"I've also suspected that I've developed a tolerance to Traz, but I must balance the cutting by not going too fast but fast enough to relieve the tolerance. It's a delicate balance but I'm determined to win.'

 

In my head  tolerance means a dose is not working any more, and one would have to take more to feel better.  I am interpreting your statement as lowering the dose will decrease the tolerance, which doesn't work with my definition of tolerance.  Could it be that lowering the dose will lower the side effects and not the tolerance?

 

I really need to understand this.  I also have never understood how one, after many years on a drug, can differentiate between tolerance and side effects.

 

Any enlightenment from anyone would be sorely appreciated!

 

Grace

[marie123]

I feel with Trazodone I have now reached tolerance now that I have reinstated. This means to me I am feeling worse s/e's from it. My system does not like it any more. I can't go higher because my CNS won't tolerate it. I tried since reinstatement and I felt much worse (remember that pacing day). So I feel if I stay on a dose too long the s/e's get worse, like it is now. I could be wrong, but I've stayed at this dose a month and I don't feel better. I am getting windows though.

 

This cut I made last night put me in a window, so my theory could be right. Or it could be because I stopped the ibuprofen. This is all a guessing game and we can only go with our gut. Sometimes I've read if you make a cut you can feel better. The "tolerance" I feel is like my system is rejecting the med and showing me this with increased s/e's. I hope this makes some kind of sense.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

Thanks for clarifying that Marie. I think our definition of tolerance is different, but I understand yours...tolerance is reached when the side effects are getting worse (or not better) Perhaps mistakenly, I thought tolerance is when a dose isn't therapeutic any more, so you need more for the desired effect (i.e.: a drinker increases from 6 beers/ day to 8 because 6 doesn't do it any more). I am not implying that more of any drug is better when one is tolerant. Unfortunately, i believe I have been in tolerance for years, though I never up dosed anything. At this point I have no idea which of my symptoms are tolerance and which are side effects. All I can do is try to reduce my toxic load somehow, some way.

 

You are very close to being off Trazadone. Congrats on your determination and perseverance. You inspire me not to give up!

 

Grace

[marie123]

I had some nice windows or days of feeling good for about a week. Sleep was good as I only woke up once a night and got 7 hours each night. This happened for about 4 days. I've noticed the past two night's sleep was getting ratty again, with waking up every couple of hours. This AM I had nausea and itching so I guess I am officially in a wave of some sorts. I go back and forth if it's ambien w/d or traz w/d. I'm still taking 1.1 mg Trazodone.

 

Another nice thing I've noticed is that my baseline is improving. Everything is clearer and brighter, it feels more like normal.

 

In another month I will cut to 1 mg Trazodone.

 

Marie

[Magnolis]

I am also titrating trazadon 37mg. How did your taper go?

[scallywag]

marie -- Improving baseline? That's terrific news!

[marie123]

I am also titrating trazadon 37mg. How did your taper go?

Hi Magnolis. I think you have seen my posts on the other site perhaps? My taper was 10 months long from 75 mg traz. I didn't have much w/d (remeron helped me sleep) but when I tapered off I was ok for 1 1/2 months. I was then hit with extreme weakness, nausea and dizziness 24/7 for six weeks. I reinstated and now here I am tapering off again. Some come off no problem. You haven't been on long so you should taper it quicker imo. Good luck.

Marie

[marie123]

Yes scally. Improving baseline is very, very good news for me. Slept great last night 7/8 hours with one wakeup. It helps that DH is off from work and sleeps in, so I sleep in too. I felt great today. My hands/feet felt a little weird achy but that's it. Everything is clearer and brighter. My gait is improving with walks and using the treadmill at the gym. I don't feel so off-balanced anymore. I know there is much more work to do but I see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Marie

[savinggrace]

Hi Marie,

 

I just wanted to say thank you for trying to help me.

 

I really appreciate the time and thought you have given to my situation.  I am truly grateful.

 

Grace

[marie123]

I've been enjoying an improved baseline with a few blips. I had a night with a bladder spasm that I believe is Traz w/d. I noticed that I no longer have any kind of cog fog. I feel pretty alert for the most part. Nausea is gone completely knock wood, so I think I am really stable at this dose of 1.1 mg Traz. In 2 weeks I will drop to 1 mg which is .006 (6 mgs) on the scale. My left shoulder is also hurting a lot less (s/e of Trazodone).

 

I want to taper carefully at 1 mg and it seems the only reasonable way to do it is by liquid, but I don't trust the process. Trazodone is not soluable in water, so I'd use a suspension. What about all the little particles that get stuck in the jar or syringe that doesn't dissolve? It'll throw my dose off, won't it?

 

I can get the scale to weigh under .006 to .005, .004, etc.  but the cuts will be larger (over 15%).

 

Any suggestions from experienced taperers are appreciated. Thanks.

 

Marie

[marie123]

So the bladder spasm turned into a confirmed UTI. I just finished a week of Bactrim. Taking it I was so tired and it felt like I was walking around in an alternate universe lol. It stopped the UTI though. It definitely revved me up as I am now in a wave of some sorts after finishing it 3 days ago. I have moderate anxiety and toxic sleep currently and no doubt if's from the Bactrim. I had to take it so it is what it is. I was enjoying mostly windows every day now and hope to get back to that soon. It was time to cut again since I was feeling good for a while, but now I must hold some more.

 

I know I will get off Traz but g** d*** it's going to take a long time if I do it slowly like I planned. Wish me luck.

Edited September 16, 2016 by brassmonkey
Cleaned up language

[Rockingchaircat]

So the bladder spasm turned into a confirmed UTI. I just finished a week of Bactrim. Taking it I was so tired and it felt like I was walking around in an alternate universe lol. It stopped the UTI though. It definitely revved me up as I am now in a wave of some sorts after finishing it 3 days ago. I have moderate anxiety and toxic sleep currently and no doubt if's from the Bactrim. I had to take it so it is what it is. I was enjoying mostly windows every day now and hope to get back to that soon. It was time to cut again since I was feeling good for a while, but now I must hold some more.

 

I know I will get off Traz but g** d*** it's going to take a long time if I do it slowly like I planned. Wish me luck.

I wish you the best of all possible worlds- luck.

It's tempting to get off of the crap quickly. But like all things Murphy- you'd just end up paying for it and wishing you hadn't (voice of experience).

 

It's hard giving up those windows. But this makes you a better more mature person as a result. 

 

On my phone I've got a memo list. In those lists I still have some memos to myself- listing the reasons I got off of my pills. I have to consult them occasionally. But they help make me remember why I got off of them.

[marie123]

Thanks for stopping by RC. Yes I learned my lesson with my quick taper (I thought 10 months was long enough not!). I won't be fooled again. It sounds like you're improving a lot. I give you so much credit for working during all of this.

 

My windows will come back soon. I'm still sick, it feels like I still have the UTI a bit. The pain stopped but I have burning in my lady areas and when I go. Today I went to the health store and bought some D-Mannose. I went to Trader Joe's and got some unsweetened organic cranberry juice and organic greek yogurt. I went to the drug store and got monistat 3. So I'll try all of these and see how this goes for a few days and if no improvement back to the doctor's I'll go. I have an upper respiratory infection going on also, but not too bad.

 

In the meantime I am just trying to rest and keep stress to a minimum. Hang in there survivor friends.

 

Marie

[marie123]

It's been over a week since completing a 7 day script for Bactrim and I'm exhausted. It's caused a wave of insomnia where I have trouble falling asleep and the rest of the night is very restless. Last night it took me 2 hours to finally fall asleep. I reacted like this 7 months ago with Bactrim but the insomnia stopped once I finished it. I used monistat for 3 days but the burning caused me to stop it.

 

It did not even knock out the UTI completely. I still have it unfortunately just not as bad. I hate this but I have to go back to the doc and try a different A/B. Anyone one else have issues with bactrim and recurrent UTIs?

 

Marie

[marie123]

I went to the doc yesterday and he gave me another urine test but he doesn't think it's UTI. Since I have been having all of this insomnia for the past few weeks, my muscles have been tense. Last night I bent over to clean up a bit for a couple minutes and when I straightened out I pulled a muscle in my back. The insomnia finally let up a bit and my sleep was a bit better, but not how it was when I was in windows recently. I've been nursing my back with ibuprofen and heat and it's helping a lot. I'm hoping to recover soon as I would like to make a cut to 1 mg, which is .006 on the gram scale.

 

Next month it will be 2 years off of Ambien which I am eternally grateful. This year will be Traz's turn.

 

Marie

[marie123]

I now have a second confirmed UTI. I'm really getting slammed lately. I'm still not over the Bactrim induced insomnia, although it has improved. Doctor wanted to prescribe Cipro which I declined. I said I've read some things lately about it and wanted something else. You know what's really funny, whenever I had a UTI or some other infection I used to ask for Cipro. It cleared everything up quickly. He offered me Keflex and I agreed. Now here's the thing, I have a penicillin allergy and 5 to 10% of people with this type of allergy have an allergic reaction to Keflex. I think it contains a small amount of penicillin. I spent part of the day cleaning with bleach. Sometimes I think I'm being tested to see how much I can take.

[scallywag]

What a miserable few weeks for you. As Shep says, "Sending you healing vibes"

[marie123]

Since the beginning of Sept. I have been dealing with a uti. First prescribed Bactrim, it didn't work and gave me insomnia that is just resolving now. Second confirmed uti was given Keflex, today is the last day of the script and while it helped I still have pain and burning in my bladder. I had lower back pain that spread to my upper back during this time. I thought I just had a sprain, but now realize it was the infection. The Keflex at least took care of that.

 

My doctor offered me Cipro last time and once I refused he offered Keflex. Now I am worried he will want to prescribe Cipro, since it's stronger. I am allergic to penicillin so I have limited choices. I tried some apple cider vinegar today but it made the burning worse. I'm sensitive to meds now so I am worried. Not sure what to do now.

 

Marie

[marie123]

I think the Keflex knocked out the UTI (knock wood). The taking of two courses of a/b's have put me into a wave unfortunately. I have nausea and strange calf and foot pain in both legs. I know it's w/d because it's getting better as the day wears on. I forced myself to go to the gym today and I'm glad I did. I haven't been in about one month because of the uti. I always feel better after I go and have used this to my advantage during my w/d from ambien and trazodone. It gets rid of any anxiety, depression, and tiredness, etc. I also washed my dog in the tub which was a lot of work. She loves to roll around in the dirt and whatever else she finds if you know what I mean. Now she smells like vanilla. She's a great dog, a border collie mix, a cancer survivor and 15 years old.

 

Marie

[scallywag]

Glad to read that you're on your way back to 100% withdrawal normal. You might consider consuming some fermented foods with active cultures -- unsweetened yogurt, true sauerkraut,etc. -- to replenish the gut bacteria that got wiped out by your courses of antibiotics. That helped me after having a course of Cipro 10 years ago.

[marie123]

Thanks scally. Yes I've been having greek yogurt everday lately. I have to pick up some sauerkraut at the grocery store. I love sauerkraut.

I feel really good today and I'm back in a window for sure. I think I'll enjoy myself tonight and see a movie/go to dinner. I heard Scully was a good flick so that's what I'll see. Looks like I'll be cutting in a week. I notice that long holds (this one was 2 months) make a difference.

 

Marie

[marie123]

I'm going for my third uti culture tomorrow. Sometimes I feel fine and other times I get some symptoms like frequent urinating/urges and some burning and itching. I'm going to the gyn this time so she also can do a yeast and b. vaginosis culture. I am taking a tsp d-mannose powder every 2/3 hours mixed with water. Sure I've gotten s/e's from the a/b's, but I've needed them. Yes, I'm also a bit wavy. Well all of this too shall pass.

 

Marie

[marie123]

I had a nice window day yesterday. I got 7 hours with no waking the night before.  I went to the gym and was able to do chores much more easily. I'm still waiting for cultures for uti, yeast or bacterial vaginosis. I think/hope the uti is gone. It's either a yeast infection or bv. I have diflican if it's yeast and metrogel for bv. The metrogel is essentially flagyl, a nasty antibiotic. I took it flagyl early this year and couldn't finish the course the s/e's were so bad. Maybe because it's just a cream if I need it, it won't be too bad. I think both creams can potentially rev me up, but I need to get this resolved. My taper is on hold and I really want to get on with it. Anyone with uti's I recommend the d'mannose. It really helped. I'm still a bit wavy today.

 

Marie

[downtongirl]

Hi Marie...congratulations on your 7 hours of sleep.  Question for you have you had any itching since tapering trazadone?  I quit it last week and have had some itching but don't know if it is from that or starting lithium.