Andalusian glad I found this forum.

[nz11]

Andalusan i sense rightly or wrongly that you are finding the links a bit overwhelming at the moment.

As such it might be worthwhile at least asking the c. chemist if they would be so kind to  make up the 3.6mg (in tablet or liquid)  i'm sure its only a phone call..he can only say no. So its worth a try. Anyway these people are in the helping industry so they should be understanding.

 

If the answer is no then people  can walk you through the scales process.

Brassmonkey is the resident expert on crushing weighing and tapering. And is single handedly writing the taper book.

You will need a scale that can go to 0.001g or 1mg so it sounds to me like your scale isnt sensitive enough. i think people are using the gemini 20 scale you could google it and see if its the same as yours. Its all in the links provided.

 

Yes the liquid is more accurate.

[Andalusian]

Thanks nz11,

 

Yes you wuld be right about being overwhelmed with it all. I tried to work out how to do the scales thing last night, totally confused myself and my partner. Gave up.

 

Will look more into liquid see if i can understand it better. I don't want to keep going back to the cp because the cost  is prohibitive.

 

Right now I'm trying to talk myself into going and meeting two friends for lunch. I WANT to go but my hands are shaking, heart racing, I feel like running the other way. If they knew what I go through before our semi-regular lunches, they's be so shocked. The main thing is I'm going anyway. (Yay me!)

I know that social isolation is way worse than these temporary sensations. Even though at the time they can seem unbearable. 

Someone on here wrote something about instead of seeing anxiety as concrete thing. See it as a list of physical sensations. hands shaking etc.

Somehow it makes it less scary, because really, shaking hands... it's not that bad right? Racing heart....I know I'm not having a heart attack, it's just a temporary thing.

 

Then the obtrusive thoughts and paranoia...They actually HATE me they are only inviting me because.....etc! 

Or the anger i feel towards them for some perceived wrong doing from two years ago!! She said this... then they all probably said that etc Then they all probably thought blah blah blah....

 

It seems so adolescent but the voice is so loud, the thoughts so strong, so very obtrusive. Neuro emotion? It helps me to look at it that way other wise why would it be so damn loud....a 43 year old woman. 

 

I'm saying to myself..."it's a trick of the mind. It's just saying that out of habit or wd or whatever".

I'm trying to have the discipline to not give it another second of my attention. Mindfulness 101: notice the thought, acknowledge it, let it go with out making a judgement about it. okay...next thought. repeat. repeat. repeat. 

 

Finally I'm in my car on my way... see my kind funny lovely friends (not the close close best kind of friends, but friends all the same).

When we sit down and all start talking I know I'll have a few moments where I'm triggered but for the most part, I'll laugh, I'll enjoy myself. Then when I leave, I'm uplifted, feel connected, feel ok.

Then the paranoia...did she really mean this when she said that? blah blah blah....Back to mindfulness.

 

Ok, that was a bit of a rant!!  thanks for reading.

[Andalusian]

After my epic fail at the scales, I rang the cp and am getting them to do the 10% drop. Much easier for me.

[AliG]

Andalusian.  You did so well . I've had almost  the exact same experience , with meeting the girls for lunch . The doubts ,the withdrawal ,the neuro - emotions etc. I think you nailed it , and I'm sure it went well , at the end of the day . Well done - you !

I'm glad you sorted it with the C.P.  It's a good start while you're feeling overwhelmed. It might pay to stick to this . See how you go .

Ali

[nz11]

Glad you sorted it with the C P seconded.

 

nz11

[Andalusian]

I have a question, if I forget to take a dose at my normal time in the morning at 7.30 am and then I remember at say 3pm, is it too late to take it? Or should I wait until the next morning to take it?

[KarenB]

I have a feeling that you take it if you are still within 12 hours of your missed dose, and leave it till the next due time if it's gone beyond 12 hours overdue.  Someone may correct me on that. 

 

Sometimes there are personal differences - for myself, I always took a missed pill as soon as I realised, no matter how overdue.  That's because I'm very sensitive and I head downhill very quickly.  (Though these days I don't forget because I've set up checks and habits etc).

[JanCarol]

Hey Andalu - 

you wrote:

Right now I'm trying to talk myself into going and meeting two friends for lunch. I WANT to go but my hands are shaking, heart racing, I feel like running the other way. If they knew what I go through before our semi-regular lunches, they's be so shocked. The main thing is I'm going anyway. (Yay me!)

 

LOL if you make it to the Brissy SA meet - we will NOT be shocked, and you are encouraged to show up, even with shaking hands, racing heart, social anxiety, agoraphobia, even DP/DR - we've had members show up in all of these states.  (and felt sorry for the ones who stayed at home because they "didn't feel well enough!")

 

How did you go with your late dose?  Did it give you any symptoms?  Did you go ahead and take it?

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[Andalusian]

Thank you Karenb, I now have a pill box with the days of the week so that will help too. Also that makes sense about being within the 12 hours.

Jancarol, thanks for the encouragement about turning up even when not feeling well. I am feeling good now that I have the pill box, much more stable. I am cutting by 10% as advised on here... Starting today. So time will tell. I am bracing for some waves. Last time I tried to drop it was by 25% (the doctor wouldn't write a prescription for any less) and it was hellish so I reinstated back to last dose. Someone on here suggested I just tell the doctor exactly what I need and just take it to the pharmacy. Hey presto!

[AliG]

Hey Andalusian. There are many here who have told a  "white lie" , to get what they need.  Just tell your doctor what you want . You now, know more than he does. 

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Ali

[Andalusian]

Thanks AliG. Very interesting reading and so relevant for me right now. This site is so enlightening, I'm very grateful for all the information and support.

[JanCarol]

Hey Andalusian - please keep your current taper information in your signature.  So have you done a taper?  What is your current dose?  What date did you taper?

 

and most importantly of all:  how are you feeling?

 

Enquiring minds would like to know!  

[Andalusian]

Hi Jancarol,  I have updated my signature to show recent taper, thanks for reminding me.  ​ 

So, I am on my second day into it... so far so good. I probably have around one to two weeks before symptoms start to show up.

I feel quietly optimistic about it, but we'll see. My last drop to 3 mg was hellish so hopefully this drop to 3.6 is better. 

I'm just having so many revelations right now. Although I am weary of attributing things to WD incorrectly, I just can't help but wonder if some of the out of control spending i was doing when I dropped last time can be attributed to WD. I actually bought a car that i can not afford but I am locked into a contract now. If I sell it now I will loose $12 k. In this time I also bought ridiculous amounts of clothes and shoes and accessories. I am normally such a tight a#$@. I'm not sure, maybe it was or wasn't wd but i felt really blustery and over opinionated and unapologetic in ways that were downright abrasive. Like a hurricane. It seems looking back that i was kind of manic. I'm not talking majorly, just subtle differences. But big enough to offend family and friends and not care. Then afterwards ruminate excessively. Wow. 

I was brought up as a good catholic girl and taught to have no opinions and AD's certainly helped numb out and push down any of those pesky opinions! 

Maybe it was just my true personality coming back but magnified by 10x.

It's hard to know who the real me is, it will be interesting to see and watch the next 4-6 weeks and see what comes out. After all I have spent my entire adult life either in withdrawals or dosed up on AD's. This is some existential soul searching going on. Or should I say soul revealing and healing.

I just don't know if I'm going to like me or indeed if my partner will like me. Or if I will like him (HeHe), we have both joked about this possibility. It's actually a little scary.... but the fear is manageable. I can do it. It's like I will have to get to know myself all over again. How will I know what is 'me' being revealed and what is me 'in healing'. Does that question make sense to anybody? 

I also just wanted to mention the revelation that ad's act as an anti-histamine? Wtf? Is there anything else these drugs do that they don't bother telling us. 

No wonder I have had such bad allergies lately (this past year). I seem to feel like I am fighting a flu every night but then feel better in the morning. I read somewhere on here about 'paxil flu'. That must be what it is! Isn't that what heroin users go through when they are starting to detox?! Far out these drugs are so much stronger than what they tell us.....again...wow. It's all I can say.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Andalusian--  I frequently refer to WD as being our second chance at getting the life we want.  Over the years we have had our emotions, hopes and dreams suppressed.  Now in WD, we are having the last vestiges of our external personality chemically burned away.  It reduces us to our core beliefs, and even those are called into question.  To survive this ordeal we have to trust ourselves to make it through, because in the end we are the only ones who truly understand, and it's our personal journey.  All our previous beliefs are out the window and life must be reexamined and those beliefs rebuilt from the ground up.  Such as your training to have no opinions.  You do have opinions, though you may have to figure out what they are, you have every right to those opinions and to express them in a civil manner.  WD is by nature a totally selfish experience, but by taking advantage of the situation we can make some truly great strides in personal growth.

 

I hope this drop treats you better than the last.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))

[Andalusian]

Brass monkey, thank you. I want to print out your response and stick it on my wall as a reminder. Your way of looking at it as a second chance at life is truly inspiring. Rebuilding from the ground up, yes that is right. Core values... What are mine? I wonder if they are something that we choose or something that is inherent. Maybe for me it might be a combination of both. Also yes to you saying it is selfish, I do struggle with that but I know that it has to be that way temporarily. And to use it as big strides in personal growth is a very healthy way of approaching it. Thanks again BM x

[Andalusian]

Hi everyone, Little update....

 

Day 6 after 10% drop. Physical symptoms are: tingling like ants crawling over my scalp, heart beating faster, decreased appetite. All symptoms are short lived and mild at this stage.

 

Psychological symptoms: Teary, irritable, easily overwhelmed, very alert. These symptoms are very manageable at the moment. So far, because they are mild, I have been able to use distraction and breathing and mindfulness to get through them and they have passed quickly. 

 

I'm battening down the hatches whilst simultaneously trying to be open to the possibility that I may not have too hard a time.

[Andalusian]

Day 7...

Much the same with new symptom appearing: jaw clenching. My teeth are aching from it.

My irritability has worsened in the form of feeling overwhelmed. Normal busy day at work feels like too much to cope with. When someone asks me to do something I feel like i'm being pulled in 100 different directions and can't cope with all the demands being made on me. I know it's wd because it's just a normal workload.

It's like inside I'm screaming "LEAVE ME ALONE I CAN"T DO ANOTHER THING". It feels like if one more task is placed in my hands I will snap. 

My mind feels like a pressure cooker simmering away and if one more thing is asked of it, it will explode. 

I'm managing to catch myself and breathe but I wish I could walk around with a sign around my neck warning of danger to "keep away". lolz (sniggers darkly).

I'm managing at the moment it but feel like I'm walking a tightrope to stay stable.

 

Strategies: breathing, mindfulness, realising these are symptoms and they will pass. That last one is the hard part.

The mind has a way of thinking things are permanent. It also has a way of making me think things have always been this way. I wonder what evolutionary need this met back in the day. Why our mind like to think in permanent terms when it's so obviously wrong. Everything passes. Why is this so hard to remember... Oh well, I don't need to know the "whys" at this stage, i just need to remember it is not permanent.

 

My brain is regrowing those little receptors. Grow little ones, grow!  (I know you need time though... not trying to rush you)

I need a sign around my neck saying "Regeneration in progress. Keep away"

 

Thank you to all on this site. I will be forever grateful for all the insights shared here.

[KarenB]

Hang in there Andalusian.  I just read your post, shaking my head because there have been times in my w/d I could have written that myself.  You'll get through this.  You can google 'TJM relief exercises' to help with the jaw clenching - I found them very practical.  

 

When you feel frazzled, try lying down with your legs up the wall - it's very relaxing and helps you to reset your emotions a bit.  (Teenagers do it instinctively, esp when on the phone...). 

 

I make jokes of my fears of permanency, for instance if I get a symptom returning I declare out loud that IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER and I might even die from it.  Something about voicing it, and hearing how it sounds, helps me to get some perspective on it.  Works even better if you can say it to another person - it really helps to cut through the nonsense of it all.  

[Andalusian]

Thanks KarenB. I'll try those sugggestions. I'm experiencing very negative, loud intrusive thoughts. I'm keeping going, putting one foot in front of the other but I'm struggling today. My body feels like a lump of lead while my mind feels like an out of control commentary box.

[Andalusian]

I'm not going that great. I dropped my dose by 10% 15 days ago. From 4 mg to 3.6 mg.

How do I know whether to keep suffering or reinstate?

I will keep going if this is normal wd but I read somewhere that if I'm going slow enough I won't have many wds.

Maybe 10% it's too much for me. Maybe I should reinstate to 3.8 mg? That would be 5% drop. Or should I just keep going with this? I'm scared by my behaviour at the moment.

[Andalusian]

This question may or may not be seen but I'll put it out there anyway.

Why do some wd symptoms mimic some side effects of the drug. For example, when I reinstated at full dose a few years back, I had severe jaw clenching...now I have that when I'm tapering. Also the self loathing is the same in wd as with reinstatement.

 

I'm finding I keep obsessively checking to see if anyone has responded. When nobody does for a while,it's fair enough. People are busy and I don't have pressing life threatening thoughts so I would rather people's attention go where it needed most. Some other folks are a lot worse off than me. I entertain the thought of maybe one day being able to help people in a similar situation. At this point in time I am in no position to help anyone, I'm only just barely keeping it together to not hurt my family with my ups and downs and severe irritability. Anyway I digress.... what I was going to say is that when no one has responded i find that is triggering for me. So i have to watch that. Funnily enough, after some time passes I find I usually have answered it myself.

 

Taking these ADs in the first place was all those years ago was kind of the same part in me that wants to ask others what i SHOULD do....The same part of me that doesn't really want to face responsibility for these thoughts and feelings. Indeed the same part of me that wants to shift the blame, numb it all out, look for alleviation in the form of medication, or alcohol, or substances or asking other people what to do. (When I've done the reading). 

 

All those years ago before the ADs, I have to admit I was looking for alleviation back in my teen years. I didn't want to feel the emotional pain i was experiencing and instead I was looking for an escape. I was trying any substance that was going around with wild abandon. Anything to not feel, to escape the underlying pain.

 

If only I had have known then what I know now (oh the bleak irony) then maybe I wouldn't have started the altering of my brain in those formative years. Maybe I wouldn't have been so quick to accept the doctors promise of alleviation in the form of another drug. You see I had a propensity to want to numb out. Now I don't want that anymore. Now I want to feel but i want to be a able to pick and choose what I feel. Like a supermarket. Let's see... I'll feel happiness, joy, excitement. I don't want to feel grief, loneliness, any of those pesky uncomfortable ones thanks! I think i got the idea that I could choose what i feel from my nature (it's all too human) and the pharmaceutical companies that cash in on this innate desire to avoid negative feelings. Being human doesn't work like that. If I want to be free of this drug I have to be prepared to feel again. The good, the bad AND the ugly. I say this in a moment of clarity. Don't try and tell me this when I'm in the grips of it or I might want to kill you.....  It's hard. As you all well know!

[nz11]

Sounds like you answered your own question again.

In wdl expect the unexpected.

 

Hey you dont have to wait for sunny weather before you help/encourage others..you can do it now, even in the bad weather. That in and of itself i found healing.

[Andalusian]

Sounds like you answered your own question again.

In wdl expect the unexpected.

Haha Yep, I guess I did. Now if you can tell me what to expect I'll know to expect the opposite. 

 

 

 

Hey you dont have to wait for sunny weather before you help/encourage others..you can do it now, even in the bad weather. That in and of itself i found healing.

That's true nz. It is a really good point.

[Andalusian]

Hey I worked out how to do the quotey thing. Proud moment. Baby steps....