ddubb: Withdrawal from hell. Any feedback appreciated.

[ddubb]

Hi Everyone,

 

My name is Daniel, I'm 19, and I'm new to this site. I'd like to hear other people's experience with SSRI withdrawal and what they've done to help alleviate it/speed the process. A little bit about my background to start. I'd like to apologize in advance for the long, long post but if you have the time please hear me out, or at least look at the main points listed at the end.

 

As a young child, I always felt different from and alienated from my family. My parents are very religious people, so I was raised in a really strict, sheltered environment. From a young age I was always hyper and impulsive, which didn't go will with my father's dictatorial parenting style, and looking back was more a result of the way he treated me. I was put on my first SSRI, luvox (fluvoxamine) at age 6, because of anxiety (which was partially caused by my relationship with my dad). I took it for a few years. Ritalin was added to my cocktail when I was 7 due to "ADHD", and I was on it until 14. I experienced crashes at the end of the day and could not function at all if I missed a dose. I know that these two meds at such a young age caused irreversible changes to my brain structure, although I don't recall any serious negative withdrawal effects (I was tapered off of it). I was put on numerous other non SSRI medications between 7-14, including abilify, other stimulants, and non stimulant ADHD meds. I never really knew what "normal" felt like because I was always being medicated. I was also diagnosed with celiac disease when I was 11, and have been gluten free since then. I had stopped growing for a few years, which led to the diagnosis. I'm sure eating gluten for all those years also had a detrimental effect on my anxiety and ability to focus.

 

At 14, I came out to my parents as gay. Things in my life devolved from here. I wasn't accepted for who I was and began to experience depression. My behavior became more erratic as the feedback loop of being yelled at and punished led me to continue to act out. At 15, I was admitted to a psych hospital where I developed depersonalization from the stress. I was given 20mg celexa, 300mg wellbutrin, 1mg tenex (guanfacine) twice a day, and 50mg seroquel for depression, "ADHD", and anxiety. I have a wonderful memory, but my time on SSRIs is definitely more blurry in my mind. I was (wronfully) in a residential psych facility for six month (my parents didn't know what to do with their "trouble child". My father announced that I was being sent to a Christian boarding school in Texas, ans at this point I called CPS on my parents. The state determined that they were not fit to take care of me and were emotionally abusive.

 

Through my first 3 years in foster care, I stayed on the Celexa/Wellbutrin/Tenex/Seroquel cocktail, but decided to taper off because I didn't want to be on meds anymore (June 2014, age 18). My sorry excuse for a psychiatrist that was employed by the foster care agency I was placed under refused to let me get off them, so I decided to do it myself. Looking back at this blurry time of my life, I can tell that I was an emotionless euphoric zombie the whole time, and emotionally did not grow at all as a result. Not knowing what I was in for, I tapered off all my meds in two weeks. I also started smoking weed regularly around this time because I was not feeling as good as I used to (meds completely destroyed my ability to regulate my mood, which would be bad enough without traumatic memories of emotional abuse, false imprisonment, etc.) It provided me relief from my withdrawal symptoms, but I was smoking too much so I've slowed down considerably because it doesn't solve any problems.

 

I don't think that my depersonalization ever really went away when I was started on meds,  but I got used to the new normal of chemical euphoria. After a few months of no meds, I got rebound depression, anxiety, and depersonalization like I've never had it before. I never had out of body experiences, but my dissociation was very severe. Anyone who's experienced this terrible symptom knows how hellish it can be. My mind could longer smoothly synthesizes my sense of perception and consciousness like it used to. Every waking moment since I've stopped these meds has been a perceptual mind****. I am in a full scholarship college program and I work 2 nights a week in order to have money to get by, so my life is ridiculously busy and stressful. I wonder sometimes how I manage all of it without breaking down. Since getting off my meds, I feel maybe 20% of the range of emotions I used to. I feel almost numb. The worst part is that I can never sit still, have a much harder time focusing than ever before, have trouble falling asleep but then sleep for way too long and have a hard time getting up. I'm dysphoric almost all the time, and my anxiety has been terrible. I overthink everything in ways I never used to and feel trapped in my body and mind. I sweat way more than I should, and my muscles got so tense about 6 months ago (beginning of 2015) that I started to develop small biceps. It's been 16 months or so since I got off my meds, and I've noticed about a 30 % reduction in my withdrawal symptoms including depersonalization, but I still feel trapped and terrible most of the time.

 

I eat pretty well, follow my GF diet, and take 5-HTP to supplement my brain with serotonin as well as vitamins and minerals. When I'm awake, I feel dissociated (sometimes I feel like I'm just a sum of what's around me in the present moment), worn out with little energy and motivation, and pretty emotionless. By the time evening comes, it feels like my brain has used up all available serotonin and I feel like an anxious, dysphoric zombie. My way of perceiving the world is not smoothly integrated and my mind jumps around. I forget where I put things 5 seconds ago, and it feels like I'm only 30% here.

 

I'm a very intelligent person and I know that if I'm able to feel better and have a more concrete sense of self and feel focused and in a decent mood like I used to feel before I was ever started on the pills from hell, I can do a lot for this world. About 2 weeks ago, I started on 10mg Prozac (against the advice of my psychiatrist, who wants me to wait the withdrawals out but doesn't really understand how terrible I feel) because I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown with school starting. Within 2 days, my brain felt like it could finally breathe and I have been functioning much better. I've stopped sweating, my body is relaxed, and my brain is thankful for the serotonin, but emotions have disappeared and I still feel like a zombie, just a more relaxed one, completely numb and it feels very fake. I don't really feel alive. I missed my dose today and the depression I felt this evening before loading with a high dose of 5-HTP was much worse than the usual withdrawal, and I've decided that it's not worth it, I'm done with meds for good!!! But I'm tired of being in this hell. I'm tired of life being a perceptual mind****. I'm tired of being on edge and anxious and depressed and dissociated. I've been in psychotherapy for almost 2 years and have made remarkable psychological progress, but the physiological/mental symptoms of my withdrawal are a living hell and it's often hard to distinguish withdrawal symptoms from symptoms of underlying problems.

 

THANK YOU FOR READING!!!

 

In summary: 

 

-Stopped SSRI and SNRI (doses were way too high), with way too fast tapering, about 16 months ago

-Symptoms have reduced by about 30% but are still hard to bear. Depersonalization, bad anxiety, sweating, trouble falling asleep/waking, lack of concentration, altered perception, emotional blunting up to 80%, dysphoria, lack of energy

-Taking high dose of 5-HTP/vitamins

 

Any additional supplement/herb recommendations, personal withdrawal timelines, or any other suggestions will be highly appreciated!!

 

 

Thank you so much!

 

-Daniel

Edited September 24, 2015 by Petunia
profanity

[Nomoreheadmeds]

Hi 'ddubb' and welcome.Its very distressing to read your story how you were drugged as a child.Its hard to believe this goes on.Someone will be along soon  to  advise you .

I wish you well

[NoMeaning25]

Im sorry to hear about your suffering.

16 months is still early in terms of withdrawal. It can take a vrry long time to get well. Why are you taking the 5HTP? I am no expert, but maybe that is compounding the problem.

 

I too am experiencing your symptoms and more. I have the severe depersonalization out of body feelings and i am so sorry you have to experience this hell. Nothing can compare to it.

 

I hope some more experienced people chime in soon to assist you.

[mammaP]

Hi Daniel, welcome to SA. I am also sorry to see that you were so badly treated and drugged at such a tender age. My little grandson is 6 and the thought of him being drugged is impossible to comprehend, you were a baby!  Suddenly stopping all those drugs after all those years has caused the terrible withdrawals that you are experiencing now as you know.  5HTP is similar to the drugs but often makes things worse for people in withdrawal.  Here is our topic on 5HTP, read the whole thread to get peoples experiences on it. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9933-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-l-tryptophan/

 

Starting 10 mg of prozac after 16 months would have been far too high a dose, especially with the 5HTP which is detrimental in high doses on it's own. 

We always recommend reinstating very tiny doses but would not recommend prozac with 5HTP and don't recommend reinstating after 16 months. 

Your brain needs to regrow and that takes time. Each stage of healing brings different symptoms, but each is a sign of healing even though they are very uncomfortable.  Many of us here find magnesium and fish oil very helpful, start with small doses and increase gradually.  

 

Here are some links to topics that will help you to understand what is happening to you. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

One of our mods, Rhianna, posted this analogy.  

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6447-best-of-sa/?p=89902

 

Magnesium

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Fish oil 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

We ask all our members to fill out their signature for us with brief details of drug and tapering history, you can find how to do that here..

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Take a look at the symptoms and self care forums for hints and tips on keeping well while in withdrawal. There are some really good topics there.  

You will recover Daniel, the brain is remarkable at regrowing and changing to regain homeostasis. One day you will finally know how it feels to have a life free of drugs with your brain fully functioning and at it's best. It will take some time but will get there in the end. 

[pocketnurse]

Daniel,

You really have had a rough time and it is shocking to see how you were put on such heavy medication as a child. Terrible though it is you have to try and put that behind you now as you cannot change the past. You are a young man with the whole of your life before you so now is the time to start to look forward. You have done so well to get to where you are now all on your own which shows what a very strong character you are.

Unfortunately as you can see as you read through the posts on here there is no quick fix solution and taking the time that your mind and body need to heal without too many side effects is key.

I have only been posting on this site for a short while but in that time I can honestly say that the empathy, compassion and care from others who take time to post advice whilst going through their own traumas has been overwhelming for me and helped me so very much.

I  truly hope that along with the advice that you need you are able to take some comfort in the fact that the people on this site genuinely care about one another. 

 

 

I have two daughters around your age so if you will accept I am sending you a momma hug.

 

xx

[ddubb]

Wow. Thanks to everyone who has answered me so quickly, I'm quite touched. I will look into the links. Very helpful to hear about the 5-htp worsening symptoms, never heard that before. I will look into it. I've decided to quit while I'm ahead, and not take any SSRIs ever again so I've weaned off the prozac. The symptoms I'm used to are back but nothing worse so that is good. I will update on my progress.

 

Thanks,

Daniel

[westcoast]

Welcome. You'll get better. It takes a long time. For me it was about 2 years, but I don't know exactly when I stopped the drugs because I was pretty much psychotic before and after. My magic bullet was coconut oil. It took me two years to try it. Something about the brain using it for energy instead of glucose, amd something about SSRI/SNRIs and glucose. All I know is that in ten days I could sleep again and I lost interest in pot and alcohol soon after.

 

I'm glad you got off all that junk. I have a friend trapped in Sero-hell. My sister takes a lot dose for sleep and I would give anything to get her off it.

 

Well, anyway, welcome.

WC

[Altostrata]

westcoast, it would be so helpful if you started an Intro topic for yourself.

[servadei]

Hello Daniel, I also have severe dissociation so I know how you feel. I would say it is the worst symptom for me. We're both the same age. I see you go to college and work. That's impresive!!

I wish you all the best in healing!

[JanCarol]

Hey Ddubb - you are not alone.  "You're never alone in the world" is my favorite song right now (Toto: "Orphan")

 

I am a fundamentalist survivor - but I think I was luckier than you (though I did go to that Christian boarding school to "correct" me).  The judgement and wrath of the church, as twisted through parents, can be so heavy on a young mind.  I'm so sorry you had to go through that.  

 

I was luckier because when I was 6, they just thought I was loud and creative with very poor boundaries, and because I was adopted, it was just accepted as part of my adaptation/adoption.  And the drugs were not so prevalent in 1968 - they definitely would've given them to me at age 13 (1976) as I "came of age."  I give thanks every day that "oppositional defiance disorder" and Prozac were not yet invented, or I would have been sent down the path you were.

 

I'm in awe of the fact that you had the clarity to go to CPS and get your parents declared incompetent!  Wow!  And it amazes me further that the state backed you up!  So often the voices of the "mental patient" - whether of majority age or not - are silenced within the state.   Even more awesome is that you are pursuing your education, self motivated, and still have enough brain left to build and create!  Brains are amazing things, you know - even under the most severe circumstances - the brain can heal, rebuild, re-circuit, renew.

 

There are also support groups for cult survivors - I haven't been on those boards in a few years (so I can't call any to mind) but if you are interested I can try and find some for you.  Even though Christianity is the dominant faith in the USA, there are many who have survived the fringes of that faith who have, as you have, come to see the damage done in those "communities."  I'm currently reading a book by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Landau Tobias called "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds: Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships" that you might find interesting.  This pair of authors have written another book called, "Take Back Your Life," which I have yet to start reading.

 

This will be especially challenging for you, as your body and brain heal, you will have to "grow up" from age 6 onward (you've already come a long way since then!); the drugs (as you know) are emotionally blunting and stunting.  It is possible, though, to "grow up" after the fact.  My "little sister" (she is not my kin, but is my chosen sister) came to me at the emotional age of 11 (when she was in her 30's), and is now a functioning, healthy adult.  (she is, sadly, frightfully, still on the drugs, however).  I reckon that you will have some emotional stuff rattling around for awhile yet, and as your depersonalization fades, the "coming alive" of your nervous system may be quite intense yet.

 

As others have said, there is not much to speed things up.  The fish oil, the magnesium, and the coconut oil - I love them, and they have helped me stay balanced through my withdrawal process.  You also might find zinc research interesting (it counterbalances copper, which is involved in emotional regulation - many people who are attracted to smoking pot do so because it blocks the copper, smoothing emotions).    It is important that your brain, which is made up of fats - has enough of the right fats.  Often a vegetarian diet is not recommended unless you have strong reasons for avoiding meat. There are stories of healing the brain with massive amounts of fish oil - but - fish oil can be blood thinning and activating, so take care, and read the topic posted above carefully.

 

Please read the magnesium thread carefully, too, as the correct form is important, and there are many different ways to absorb magnesium, including baths and topical oils (great for sore, tight muscles!).

 

I also agree that the 5HtP might not be the thing, see:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/656-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-tryptophan/

 

Overall, it sounds like you are well on the way to becoming an actualized human being.  Already your self-awareness is breathtaking!  I hope we will continue to hear your story unfold, and that you will feel a new sense of community here.  You're never alone in the world!

[KarenB]

Hello ddub,

 

I am so so so glad you found your way to s/a.  Your load has been so heavy and you've had so little care - your story has really stopped me in my tracks.  I'm sitting here quite sad actually, and I hope you are feeling all the love and care that is heading your way from all the people who've read your post. 

 

I'll tell you what every child should be told:  You are precious, you matter, you deserve all the care and kindness and love in the world. 

 

Keep reading, keep telling us how things are going for you, and start putting into action all the healing suggestions the others have given you.

 

You are strong, and despite your emotional blunting your instincts are doing good stuff!  You will get through this.

Hugs,

Karen

[starburst]

Daniel, welcome to the forum. I am so sorry for what you went through as a child. As a Christian it breaks my heart to hear stories like that although I myself have been witness to some very 'extreme' families whose children have also suffered under the harsh fundamentalist beliefs of their parents. I am sure that it breaks God's heart too. 

My own son was diagnosed with Autism when he was 10. Typical of a lot of Autistic children he has suffered terribly with anxiety. At 12 he was put on Prozac. I was completely ignorant about the drug but thankfully my husband looked in to it further and within ten days we abruptly stopped the medication. Thankfully our son had no withdrawal symptoms from that time. It makes me so angry to see how easily doctors will prescribe such dangerous drugs to children. 

You sound like a very mature and intelligent young man and although you are struggling with some horrible withdrawal symptoms I feel positive that you will cope with this just like you have coped with the rest of your life, with courage. I wish you all the best in your journey xx

[ddubb]

*moved from symptoms forum

 

Hi Everyone,

When I posted my original post, I was told that taking 5-htp might actually aggravate withdrawal, especially at high doses. I was taking 600mg per day at the time as prescribed by my doctor. I went down to 200mg after reading that, and decided to add curcumin because it's supposed to increase serotonin receptors. And oh it does. The high dose I was on for months before surely contributed to too high levels of serotonin in my brain. Within 2 days of adding in the turmeric, I felt like I was overdosing on Prozac (hypomanic symptoms including increased energy, neuroticism, obsessive thinking, music compulsively playing in my head all day), so I stopped 5-htp and turmeric immediately. It's been about a month, but these symptoms have barely subsided. I think I have a minor form of serotonin syndrome.

Wondering if anybody else has experienced something similar and how they dealt with it. Will it sort itself out? Is there something I can do? I don't want there to be any permanent damage.

-D

[ddubb]

Hello ddub,

 

I am so so so glad you found your way to s/a.  Your load has been so heavy and you've had so little care - your story has really stopped me in my tracks.  I'm sitting here quite sad actually, and I hope you are feeling all the love and care that is heading your way from all the people who've read your post. 

 

I'll tell you what every child should be told:  You are precious, you matter, you deserve all the care and kindness and love in the world. 

 

Keep reading, keep telling us how things are going for you, and start putting into action all the healing suggestions the others have given you.

 

You are strong, and despite your emotional blunting your instincts are doing good stuff!  You will get through this.

Hugs,

Karen

Thanks so much

[Petunia]

Hi ddubb,

I moved your post about 5htp here to your Intro/Update topic, because it was related to your own situation specifically. Please add information and updates about your changing circumstances, and ask questions here, bookmark or follow it so you can find it again.

 

It sounds to me like you unbalanced your nervous system by making too many large changes to supplements, we recommend making small changes one at a time. Your symptoms will settle down in time. See:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) and l-tryptophan - Symptoms ...

 

Curcumin or turmeric - Surviving Antidepressants

[ddubb]

On 10/10/2015 at 9:26 PM, westcoast said:

Welcome. You'll get better. It takes a long time. For me it was about 2 years, but I don't know exactly when I stopped the drugs because I was pretty much psychotic before and after. My magic bullet was coconut oil. It took me two years to try it. Something about the brain using it for energy instead of glucose, amd something about SSRI/SNRIs and glucose. All I know is that in ten days I could sleep again and I lost interest in pot and alcohol soon after.

 

I'm glad you got off all that junk. I have a friend trapped in Sero-hell. My sister takes a lot dose for sleep and I would give anything to get her off it.

 

Well, anyway, welcome.

WC

Hi there, I know it’s been a while. Thanks for the encouragement. Recovery has progressed significantly, I’ve probably regained 60% of my self, which is more than I ever thought possible. Coconut oil definitely helps- I’ve gone keto, eating one meal a day. 

How are you doing?

Do you have any more info on SSRI glucose connection? I’ve been told my body has a hard time processing glucose as it is, so I’d like to look into that more.

[ChessieCat]

Hi ddubb and welcome back.

 

I joined SA a couple of days before you previous post.

 

Thank you for coming back to update us.  It's great to hear that you are going well.

[ddubb]

8 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Hi ddubb and welcome back.

 

I joined SA a couple of days before you previous post.

 

Thank you for coming back to update us.  It's great to hear that you are going well.

Thanks :) it’s up and down but not every part of every day is painful. I’ve had moments of true joy recently that I wouldn’t trade for anything.

 

How is your journey coming along?

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, ddubb. Which symptoms have gone away and which remain? When did you start to see noticeable improvement?

 

In your signature, could you indicate the months and years when you went on and off drugs?

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

In your signature, could you indicate the months and years when you went on and off drugs?

 

Here's the link which will go straight to your drug signature.  Remember to Save after you have updated it.  Account Settings – Edit a signature

 

15 hours ago, ddubb said:

How is your journey coming along?

 

I'm going well thank you.  It's been a long process to get off but I'm nearly there.  Only about 1 year to go.  I've really appreciated and benefited from the advice and support that I've received from SA.

 

15 hours ago, ddubb said:

I’ve had moments of true joy recently that I wouldn’t trade for anything.

 

That's wonderful to hear.  Try to remember those and use them as encouragement when things get you down.

 

As my emotions were coming back I unexpectedly saw some whales (we were looking at a car my daughter was considering buying) and I jumped up and down because I was so excited.  Being 60 with sore knees that was a true indication that my emotions were no longer numb.

 

It would be great if you could continue to let us know how you are going.

 

[ddubb]

3 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Here's the link which will go straight to your drug signature.  Remember to Save after you have updated it.  Account Settings – Edit a signature

 

 

I'm going well thank you.  It's been a long process to get off but I'm nearly there.  Only about 1 year to go.  I've really appreciated and benefited from the advice and support that I've received from SA.

 

 

That's wonderful to hear.  Try to remember those and use them as encouragement when things get you down.

 

As my emotions were coming back I unexpectedly saw some whales (we were looking at a car my daughter was considering buying) and I jumped up and down because I was so excited.  Being 60 with sore knees that was a true indication that my emotions were no longer numb.

 

It would be great if you could continue to let us know how you are going.

 

Great to hear! The joy of being able to feel joy just compounds the joy  I was on a hike last week and was in a flow state for a good part of it, just marveling at the plants and the Potomac River- a state still quite hard to come by.
 

While things have been better overall, I still have some pretty difficult periods. I was prescribed trazodone a few months back but didn’t take it until the last few days. It was good at first but then turned into a numb drugged feeling- didn’t take it last night and had insomnia and the sweats. Nope nope nope. I actually prefer my ups and downs. If I were to continue with it I’d need Wellbutrin to get rid of the blah feeling, and another one to counteract the Wellbutrin and put me to sleep- and I’m not about to go down that road again. Currently waiting for it to leave my system 😝