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Why taper by 10% of my dosage?


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#73 Altostrata

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 09:15 AM

If you've been on the drug for a month or more, you are still at risk for withdrawal syndrome.

 

Severe life-threatening adverse reactions call for a faster taper. Extreme adverse reactions justify cold turkey, though it may still take a long time to recover from withdrawal.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#74 Lilu

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 09:33 AM

Just found this, an updated paper from Dr. Healy on stopping antidepressants. Not sure why it's not listed as a link through his site. It came up in google search.

 

Here he is more specific in that he mentions the 10% approach, and alludes to the waves and windows of withdrawal. You may want to add this to your list of links in the why taper by 10% thread. 

 

http://1sibj35pm731w...depressants.pdf


Edited by JanCarol, 16 April 2016 - 11:34 PM.
fixed link

2005-2008 Effexor xr; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit.
7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor xr due to crying spells.
2009-3/2013 Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013 Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014 Tapering Lexapro
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia, resumed using Ambien & Klonopin
12/2014-6/2015 Tried Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron - Adverse Reactions
7/2015 Reinstated Lexapro at 2 mg; Quit Klonopin CT suddenly paradoxical)
Started Gabapentin 100-300 mg for 3 weeks. Developed severe lumbar jerking movements (myoclonus).Quit Gabapentin CT.
8/2015 Continuing Lexapro 2 mg. Baclofen 10mg-AM/20mg-PM - tapered off by 5/2016
1-7/2016 Lexapro 5 mg 
Intro page: http://survivinganti...rsened-by-meds/


#75 Altostrata

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 04:20 PM

Lilu, I already added your post to the 10% tapering thread. Please note that you can add posts to relevant threads yourself, rather than suggesting they be moved by the staff.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#76 nick1990

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:34 AM

I understand a lot of people on here are currently in the "Storm" of WD - some have CT'd , while others have tapered too fast but are still on their "Drugs".  The one clear thing seems that everyone eventually gets better. 

 

So once your stable on a certain dosage and you have given your CNS time to recover - can the remainder of your Tapering process be done as a background thing in your life with little effect on your day to day functioning? If done slow enough that is. . . 


Started Citalopram in 2004 (aged 14) for apparent "OCD" - 60mg - Didn't notice any real change in myself . Went through rough patch in 2009 PDoc attempted 2 week cold turkey taper and put on Mirtazapine - Massive withdrawal shock. INTENSE anxiety. Within 2 days after withdrawal kicks in cold turkey Mirtazapine - Back to 60mg Citalopam, Stabilize slowly over a few weeks. Then in 2011 dropped to 55mg - No withdrawal noticed. Few months later dropped to 50mg - No withdrawal noticed.June 2015 - decide its time to get off the tablets. Having weird random anxiety/feeling low and pretty sure its the drug. June 2015 drop to 45mg . Tiny hiccup about a week later - recover within a day. July 2015 drop to 40mg. 1 week later MASSIVE Anxiety/Panic/Confusion/Irritation. Try to ride it out for nearly 3 months. Does improve very slightly , windows longer but still not pleasant. Waves seem to hit roughly every 3 weeks. Then clear about a week. Intense Anxiety though. Back to 45mg October 2015- immediately tired, drowsy, fuzzy and cloudy. Anxiety improves but still there 1 week on. Waiting to stabilise then planning on 5% cuts with 2 month holds.June 2016 - almost fully stabilized on current dose of 45mg. Plan on tapering slowly soon.<p>November 2016 - Resumed taper. 1% decrease weekly. Currently 44.5mg November 2016. Jan 2017 42.5 mg.

#77 ChessieCat

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:07 PM

Hi Nick,

 

I think this is the ultimate goal and the reason why this site exists.  To inform and support us to come off the best way for our own brain/body and live our lives as we do.

 

The best way is to give our brains time to reconstruct backwards which is why 10% or slower tapering is recommended, with holds in between to allow our brains to adapt to the change.  Patience, listening to our bodies for signs that our brain is healing/reconstructing and holding.

 

I don't think there will ever be the perfect way to come off drugs as we don't live in a perfect situation and we have to deal with external influences over which we sometimes have little or no control, but we can make the choice about how we let them affect us, ie positivity.

 

I found these very helpful in understanding what is happening which in turn is helping me to accept and be patient:

 

Video:  Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery

 

Brain Remodelling

 

And a description which is more detailed but easy to understand:  Best Description of Healing Process

 

CC


S l o w l y ...... but surely!

 

Antidepressants:  25 years (various: 1 unknown; Prozac muscle weakness; Zoloft; Cipramil CTed - very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)
Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (from April - aches, pains, sweating, jittery, Oct 2015 recognised Serotonin Toxicity)
17 Oct 2015: 50mg (head fog); 1&2 Nov: 100mg (4 hrs "with it"); 3 Nov: 75mg; 30 Dec: 67.5mg; 1 Jan 2016: 70mg (ear pain);

21 Jan: 67.5mg; 4 Feb: 65mg; 19 Feb: 62.5mg; 3 Mar: 60mg; 12 Mar: 57.5mg; 13 Mar: 60mg (ear pain); 24 Mar: 57.5mg; 21 Apr: 55mg; 19 May: 52.5mg; 16 Jun: 50mg tablet; 11 Sep: 47.5mg all caps (5mg old); 25 Sep: 45mg (40+2x2.5); 4 Oct: 45mg (open 2x2.5); 14 Oct: 45mg (open 2.5x2); 21 Oct: 42.5mg (open 2.5); 9 Nov: 41mg (open 1); 25 Nov: 38.5mg (open 2.5); 2 Dec: 37.5mg (5mg old, open 2.5); 26 Dec: 35mg (5mg old open); 6 Jan: 32.5mg (2.5mg open); 7 Jan: 33.5mg (2.5mg open); 15 Jan: 32.5mg (2.5mg open); 20 Jan: 31.5mg (1mg open);

Current:  Pristiq 31mg

My SA Intro topic                           My website


#78 LexAnger

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:20 PM

Welcome Nick! Glad you are getting stabilized at the current dose!

You may gain more info about the slow taper here
http://survivinganti...of-slow-tapers/

There are some successful slow taper but not all slow taper guarantee a smooth journey unfortunately, I feel the key is to avoid sensitize the CNS on the road.
2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.
2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg
2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain
2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg, first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain
2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, slight improvement with pain
2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on
2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.
2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR
2016 Feb., started fast taper for the drug toxicity caused by the one dose of 4.2mg, dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday
2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg
2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.5mg

#79 KarenB

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 07:43 PM

There's me - my tapering is getting further and further into the background of my life.  In Feb of this year I thought I'd never leave my house again (due to severe adverse-effects from Effexor), and now I'm gardening again, visiting friends, going into town - even drove myself into Hamilton yesterday.  I'm having family here for Christmas, and thinking of joining a local trauma-response team. 

 

This has all happened since I found a low tapering amount - 0.4% weekly for four weeks, then a month's hold.  I may be able to increase that slightly over time, after plenty of settled time.   


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#80 nz11

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 04:30 PM

post 1 joesph glenmullen link doesnt appear to work

 

and lilu that link doesnt appear to work either


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am)28 Sept 15 (5yrs drug free), cf, cmw, insomnia  horrifying pssd continues, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, cognitively doing heaps better. 28 Sept 16 after 6 yrs start working again on a casual basis.

 

The doctor of the future will give no medicine but will interest his patients in the care of the human frame, in diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.' - Thomas A. Edison

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#81 Altostrata

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 04:54 PM

I'm sorry, Dr. Glenmullen has removed most of his files from the Web.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#82 Christian

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 03:04 PM

Just curious what is the minimum amount of time of anti depressant use for it be necessary to taper vs quitting cold turkey? A month of use? 4 months? I can't believe I actually used the words "cold turkey" on this site based on what I've learned! 😊

Lexapro: started in 2002 at 10 mgs.

Ambien: started as a as needed sleep aid in 2010. 

Quit Lexapro cold turkey in June 20015 due to contributing to low sodium issues.

Restarted Lexapro in late November for a week (only 5 mgs) but quit due to dizziness side effects. Side effects worsened for 3 weeks until 

12/24/15: Protracted WD hit, experienced extreme anxiety, insomnia lack of full concentration and social challenges.

Reinstated Lexapro on 1/1/16 at 5 mgs. Increased per Dr to 7.5 MG. Tapered off Lexapro in March 2016.   

Started 50MG of Seroquel in late January 2016 for bedtime to help in eliminate Ambien. Tapered off both Seroquel and Ambien in March 2016.  

2/14/16: Prescribed both Remeron (15 MG) and Temazapam (15 MG) for sleep. Also use Klonopin and Ambien again in place of Temazapam to avoid addiction. However I did take Temazapam 60 straight days

6/15/16: Stopped use of all benzo's and now use Belsomra 1-2 times a week. Still on 15 MG of Remeron    

10/11/16: Off all psych medications

 

After kindling, trying to regain my strength suffering from severe mental and physical fatigue. 


#83 Altostrata

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 06:45 PM

According to the journal literature on antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, anyone who has been taking a drug for a month or more is at risk.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#84 erer

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:15 AM

 At a 10% reduction every 2 weeks -- the fastest rate of taper we recommend -- going off takes about 6 months all together.

 

I apologise for my poor math skills, but how is this 6 months calculated? My logic says it should always depend on the starting dosage of the drug.


  • 2,5 years of slowly tapering down Cymbalta from 60 mg. Then tried going from 8,44 mg to 1 mg in 8 days. (April 1st 2015). That's when the real hell started. Reinstated. Didn't help. I was added Ativan (2 mg 2 times a day for relentless akathisia that started with jumping Cymbalta). For years had been taking Zopitin 7,5 mg and Stilnox 10 mg for I had not been able to sleep naturally since the 1st day I started Cymbalta). Used to take Xanax occasionally.
  • All of the above were stopped cold turkey when I was hospitalized in the beginning of May 2015.
  • Prior to that I have been on and off the whole spectrum of different AD-s for 14 years (since I was 17).

My introduction.

 

Currently (evenings): 25 mg Valdoxan (agomelatine), 5 mg Diazepam, Olanzapine (1,25 since hospital, then doctors orders mid june 2015 up to 2,5 mg. Tried cutting down to 1,875 mg July 26 (crashed on the 6th day, then managed the symptoms until it got even worse on the 17th day) Updosed Olanzapine to 2,1 mg and started diluting it and taking by a syringe on August 14th 2015.

 

  • Tapering: Olanzapine (starting point 2,1 mg): 12/02/16 - 2 mg; 23/03/16 - 1,8 mg /---/ 22/08/16 - 1,4 mg

 

Supplements: Omega 3, D3, C, probiotics, agnus castus (helps with PMS), magnesium oil topically.


#85 Altostrata

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:26 AM

Yes, it is based on the starting dosage of the drug. 10% is proportional to any starting dosage. If you can envision it, the curve of reduction is consistent across all drugs.

 

For example: 10% of 300mg would be a reduction of 30mg; 10% of 15mg would be 1.5mg. Proportional reductions at about 2 week intervals result in a minimal time to zero of about 6 months.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#86 erer

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:52 AM

Yes, it is based on the starting dosage of the drug. 10% is proportional to any starting dosage. If you can envision it, the curve of reduction is consistent across all drugs.

 

For example: 10% of 300mg would be a reduction of 30mg; 10% of 15mg would be 1.5mg. Proportional reductions at about 2 week intervals result in a minimal time to zero of about 6 months.

I will just have to take your word for it :). Because all the calculations I make, I get a much longer time period for the medicine to reach zero.


  • 2,5 years of slowly tapering down Cymbalta from 60 mg. Then tried going from 8,44 mg to 1 mg in 8 days. (April 1st 2015). That's when the real hell started. Reinstated. Didn't help. I was added Ativan (2 mg 2 times a day for relentless akathisia that started with jumping Cymbalta). For years had been taking Zopitin 7,5 mg and Stilnox 10 mg for I had not been able to sleep naturally since the 1st day I started Cymbalta). Used to take Xanax occasionally.
  • All of the above were stopped cold turkey when I was hospitalized in the beginning of May 2015.
  • Prior to that I have been on and off the whole spectrum of different AD-s for 14 years (since I was 17).

My introduction.

 

Currently (evenings): 25 mg Valdoxan (agomelatine), 5 mg Diazepam, Olanzapine (1,25 since hospital, then doctors orders mid june 2015 up to 2,5 mg. Tried cutting down to 1,875 mg July 26 (crashed on the 6th day, then managed the symptoms until it got even worse on the 17th day) Updosed Olanzapine to 2,1 mg and started diluting it and taking by a syringe on August 14th 2015.

 

  • Tapering: Olanzapine (starting point 2,1 mg): 12/02/16 - 2 mg; 23/03/16 - 1,8 mg /---/ 22/08/16 - 1,4 mg

 

Supplements: Omega 3, D3, C, probiotics, agnus castus (helps with PMS), magnesium oil topically.


#87 erer

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:31 PM

It's me again. I have a question about the holds between the reductions. I have read quite a lot of materials here on SA, but for some reason this has not become 100% clear for me. I hope you don't mind my question.

Here we go (this is a hypothetical scenario):

 

If you make a reduction and let's say within a few days develop wd symptoms that you perhaps rate 6-7 points in intensity. Let's say you have already tried reducing several times once a month and you know the pattern of your symptoms. My question is: how long would you actually have to wait for the next reduction to be on the safe side? Should you expect the intensity of the symptoms to go back to 0 or is this utopical to expect in many cases? If 0 is not what you should be aiming for before you reduce again - what is it? 1-2? 4?

 

 

My question is derived from the "harm reduction" way of starting a taper Alto has described in this topic. It says that you should move your reduction up by a week if the symptoms are minor. I guess I'm also asking what that "minor" means.


  • 2,5 years of slowly tapering down Cymbalta from 60 mg. Then tried going from 8,44 mg to 1 mg in 8 days. (April 1st 2015). That's when the real hell started. Reinstated. Didn't help. I was added Ativan (2 mg 2 times a day for relentless akathisia that started with jumping Cymbalta). For years had been taking Zopitin 7,5 mg and Stilnox 10 mg for I had not been able to sleep naturally since the 1st day I started Cymbalta). Used to take Xanax occasionally.
  • All of the above were stopped cold turkey when I was hospitalized in the beginning of May 2015.
  • Prior to that I have been on and off the whole spectrum of different AD-s for 14 years (since I was 17).

My introduction.

 

Currently (evenings): 25 mg Valdoxan (agomelatine), 5 mg Diazepam, Olanzapine (1,25 since hospital, then doctors orders mid june 2015 up to 2,5 mg. Tried cutting down to 1,875 mg July 26 (crashed on the 6th day, then managed the symptoms until it got even worse on the 17th day) Updosed Olanzapine to 2,1 mg and started diluting it and taking by a syringe on August 14th 2015.

 

  • Tapering: Olanzapine (starting point 2,1 mg): 12/02/16 - 2 mg; 23/03/16 - 1,8 mg /---/ 22/08/16 - 1,4 mg

 

Supplements: Omega 3, D3, C, probiotics, agnus castus (helps with PMS), magnesium oil topically.


#88 Altostrata

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:57 PM

If you are getting severe withdrawal reactions lasting more than a few days after a reduction, your reductions are TOO LARGE. You should make smaller reductions.

 

It's possible you can make smaller reductions more often than every month, but you'll have to see what your symptom pattern is like over 3-4 reductions.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#89 SkyBlue

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 01:10 PM

If you are getting severe withdrawal reactions lasting more than a few days after a reduction, your reductions are TOO LARGE. You should make smaller reductions.

 

 

 

**Cutting and pasting this to my tapering notes.*** Thanks, Alto.


Long story short: After 18 years on Paxil, "tapered" in July 2015 from 20 to 10 to 5 mg in a month, at doctor's advice. = Essentially a cold-turkey.

*Current*: Jan 1:  .88 mg, baby!! …. August 31: Less than 1mg Paxil! ... July 30: 1 mg Paxil! ! ! And 100 mg Zoloft unfortunately!!  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Paxil since 1996--anxiety & depression likely caused by (then-undiagnosed) under-eating / eating disorder. 

Rapid "taper" July 2015 and started Zoloft as a "cross-taper". Feb 2016: Found SA!! As of June 2016: Doing 2% cuts (Brassmonkey Slide!). 

Now: fish oil, magnesium; protein; exercise; healthy fats; acupuncture, meditation, & a new doctor.  I am in recovery from an eating disorder!!!  ***Have you had a sleep study?***    *Feel free to message me if I don't respond to a forum thread.* 


#90 megb

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 01:18 PM

I have a bit of a complicated question...

 

Lengthening my taper plan by doing 10% or lesser drops also means more and more years on this awful poison. 9 more years from today is a LONG time... how do I know if the benefits of being on this longer and going at a snails pace means less damage on my brain and body than getting off sooner but not as slow?? A little conflicted about this. Would LOVE some advice.


Jun '09-Aug '12: 10mg Paxil for severe insomnia due to anxiety. Also took Ambien/Trazodone for sleep.  

Sep'12: 1st attempt to get off, naively tried cold turkey per Dr. suggestion. Couldn't work for 2 months. Another Doc upped dose to 20mg.

Oct'12-Sep'15: 20mg Paxil

Sep'15: tried to come off slower. Used fish oil, vit D3, and regular exercise/healthy diet to assist. (Taper sched= 18mg for 60days, 15mg for 60d, 10mg for 30d, 8mg for 30d) At my 3rd week of 8mg in Nov '15, insomnia and panic attacks began. Back up to 20mg after a month of horrible withdrawal. 

Mar '16: began taper from 20mg- decreasing .5mg or less each month until 5mg, then going down by .2mg until 0

 

Nov'16 - Feb'17: 15mg Paxil, Westhroid (thyroid), fish oil, vit D3, DIM, Liver support, and Magnesium as needed for anxiety and sleep.   

 

My hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus' blood and righteousness. 

 

 


#91 Cheri

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 09:12 AM

I've just finished reading The Soft Landing Method by Benjamin Kramer. He recommends a taper of 1/2 of original dose for first three months. Then 1/4 of original dose second three months. Then 1/8 of original dose for third three months. He says that it takes three months for your brain to adapt.

Prior to reading this book, I've been following posted recommendations of a 10% taper. It can get confusing.


Thoughts?

#92 Cheri

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 10:23 AM

So far, I've read posts about the horrible side effects of tapering. Are there ANY good stories out there of successful slow tapering?!

#93 JayPea

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 11:04 AM

I tapered from 40 to 20 successfully over a VERY long period.

I decreased 2.5 mg every 3-4 weeks.

 

I have not tried to get below 20 and not sure if /when I will.

I have MS and depression makes MS worse and MS makes depression worse.

 

Not sure if this is even helpful!


neurologically challenged

Copaxone, Baclofen Oxybutynin and L.D.N. for multiple sclerosis and on Dilatin for seizure disorder Celexa 20 then 40 for at least 7 years Started first reduction in Jan 2015, but with generic- bad idea. Lasted 3 days

Started again Feb 1 2015. 

Feb 1-  40 to 37.5

Feb 24-  37.5 to 35

March 24- 35 to 32.5

April 28- 32.5 to 30

June 9- 30 to 27.5

July 1- 27.5 to 25

July 27-25 to 22.5

Aug 18- 22.5 to 20

 


#94 Altostrata

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 11:07 AM

That advice from Benjamin Kramer's The Soft Landing Method is better than most.

 

Many people cannot handle the larger decreases he suggests. With those decreases, you may very well feel withdrawal for 3 months or longer. The taper we recommend gets you to more or less the same place, but more gradually. It is intended to produce minimal withdrawal symptoms, and take less time for your nervous system to adapt to each small change.

 

Many of the people posting on this site came here after they tapered too quickly or went cold turkey and started searching the Web for explanations of their symptoms. They started out with withdrawal syndrome problems. Once Humpty Dumpty falls off the wall, it's hard to put him together again, and these people may continue to have drug-related symptoms for quite a while.

 

We have many people who have done well with their tapers, but they have less reason to post continuously. And, tens of thousands of people read the topics in our Tapering forum and don't register here or post at all.

 

If you want to go off psychiatric drugs, the only way is to reduce the dosage one way or the other. The only questions are "How?" and "At what rate?" The 10% per month rate we espouse is intended to serve everyone, including those who are very sensitive to dosage decreases (in addition, a very small number of hypersensitive people find they need to taper even slower).

 

We acknowledge that there is a wide variation of tolerance for tapering. The taper should be tailored to the tolerance of the individual. If you are tapering, learned your symptom pattern, and want to go a bit faster, you might try reductions of 10% every 3 weeks instead of 4 weeks and, after a while, every 2 weeks instead of 3 weeks.


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#95 Altostrata

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 11:20 AM

Apologies for not seeing this before:

 

I have a bit of a complicated question...

 

Lengthening my taper plan by doing 10% or lesser drops also means more and more years on this awful poison. 9 more years from today is a LONG time... how do I know if the benefits of being on this longer and going at a snails pace means less damage on my brain and body than getting off sooner but not as slow?? A little conflicted about this. Would LOVE some advice.

 

The 10% per month taper schedule is intended to minimize withdrawal symptoms. Some people are very sensitive to reductions in dosage.

 

Withdrawal symptoms are not things you can just brush off, they're signals from your nervous system that something isn't right. It is possible to trigger withdrawal symptoms that are severe and last for years.

 

So the question is: Which is more important: To get off the drug quickly, or to minimize withdrawal symptoms?

 

Some people are taking drugs in dangerous combinations or are causing health problems. If you are having a serious adverse effect from a drug, such as liver damage, you may choose to go off sooner rather than later. The risk of withdrawal syndrome may be about equal to or even less than the health risk of taking the drug.

 

If you are not having a serious adverse effect, which would show up in blood tests or other physical tests, the risk of withdrawal syndrome is greater than the health risk of the drug. You would want to avoid withdrawal syndrome with gradual tapering.

 

There is no one-size-fits-all answer. Since the factors leading to a decision about tapering are individual, these questions are best asked and answered in your Introductions topic, where we can see much of your recent history.


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#96 megb

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 02:32 PM

Thanks Alto! I figured as much. I did also post this in my intro, but did not have responses for a bit so thought I would post in here too. Appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts! :) 


Jun '09-Aug '12: 10mg Paxil for severe insomnia due to anxiety. Also took Ambien/Trazodone for sleep.  

Sep'12: 1st attempt to get off, naively tried cold turkey per Dr. suggestion. Couldn't work for 2 months. Another Doc upped dose to 20mg.

Oct'12-Sep'15: 20mg Paxil

Sep'15: tried to come off slower. Used fish oil, vit D3, and regular exercise/healthy diet to assist. (Taper sched= 18mg for 60days, 15mg for 60d, 10mg for 30d, 8mg for 30d) At my 3rd week of 8mg in Nov '15, insomnia and panic attacks began. Back up to 20mg after a month of horrible withdrawal. 

Mar '16: began taper from 20mg- decreasing .5mg or less each month until 5mg, then going down by .2mg until 0

 

Nov'16 - Feb'17: 15mg Paxil, Westhroid (thyroid), fish oil, vit D3, DIM, Liver support, and Magnesium as needed for anxiety and sleep.   

 

My hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus' blood and righteousness. 

 

 


#97 Altostrata

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 09:23 AM

nz, your calculations are correct. I have revised post #1 to say

 

  • "Jump off" at the end when you are taking less than 98% of the original dose and reductions no longer cause any reaction at all.

Under this method, the fastest taper takes about 12 months.

 

 

We cannot predict the jumping-off point, it's highly individual. To be safe, many people stop when the dosage is so low, they cannot divide the drug any further.

 

If you're using a liquid to taper, this can be 0.01 milligram (one-hundredth milligram).


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#98 jmncrr

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 11:16 AM

I am doing a slow and gradual taper, but how is it some people can taper over a two month period, and not be effected by bad withdrawals?

 

 

Do the majority of people suffer bad withdrawals, if they taper over a two month period, or is that in the minority?


Been taking paroxetine 20 mg for 20+ years for depression. Taking 300 mg of wellbutrin since October 2015 for adhd and depression. Take fish oil, calcium, and a multivitamin. Started taking risperidone late January 2015 3mg for a misdiagnoses of bipolar. Started tapering risperidone late July 2016. As of late September tapered down to 2mg at 5% a week off current dose. Oct 21/2016 1.58 mg Nov 21/2016 1.26mg No withdrawals so far.

 


#99 Altostrata

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 05:11 PM

It is unknown how many people have difficulty going off psychiatric drugs, as withdrawal symptoms are so often misidentified as relapse of a psychiatric condition or something else.

 

Physicians assume that withdrawal symptoms are invariably immediate, mild, and go away in a few weeks. They tend to deny or ignore withdrawal symptoms lasting longer.

 

It is because of the vacuum of knowledge about withdrawal syndrome that this site exists.


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#100 Lakelander82

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 06:04 AM

I can't even do a 10% cut now. 5% is my limit now and is just about bearable. I find I am most sensitive for the first three days after a cut, reaching a crescendo on the third day and after that I improve.
May 2007 - October 2007 Citalopram 20 mg od. 1st Antidepressant ever taken. No problem with fast taper and no withdrawal effects. No antidepressants for over 5 years.

January 2013 started Citalopram 20mg.
March 2014 Switched to Sertraline 50 mg od.
23rd June 2016 started taper 45mg
23rd July 2016 40.5 mg of Sertraline
23rd August 36.45 mg of Sertraline
27th September 34.65 mg
24th October 32.90 mg
28th November 31.26 mg
4th January 32mg

#101 jmncrr

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 10:35 AM

Should i be making my reductions bi-weekly instead of weakly. Ive had no problems with the weekly cuts so far, but sometimes withdrawals can take 10+ days to emerge.

 

Any idea as to why i have had such good luck so far with my taper?

 

Thank you


Been taking paroxetine 20 mg for 20+ years for depression. Taking 300 mg of wellbutrin since October 2015 for adhd and depression. Take fish oil, calcium, and a multivitamin. Started taking risperidone late January 2015 3mg for a misdiagnoses of bipolar. Started tapering risperidone late July 2016. As of late September tapered down to 2mg at 5% a week off current dose. Oct 21/2016 1.58 mg Nov 21/2016 1.26mg No withdrawals so far.

 


#102 stan

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 03:38 PM

Should i be making my reductions bi-weekly instead of weakly. Ive had no problems with the weekly cuts so far, but sometimes withdrawals can take 10+ days to emerge.

 

Any idea as to why i have had such good luck so far with my taper?

 

Thank you

hi,

 

you are not lucky...

 

it is because you are taking several different drugs, so taper one is covered by the other

when you will taper the last you will feel the difference,


for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

66 years old - 7 years 2 months med free

 

in protracted withdrawal syndrome

 

muscles pain..fatigue...off balance and dizzy...sleep very bad...dryness syndrôme...prostate...derealization...itching psoriasis...unable to be quiet inside... to rest though improvements akathisia...dilate bronchitis ...auto-immune disorder...conversion disorder...strong back pains...permanent stress...emotions no control...my senses are false... many feelings are false since beginning...locomotor disorder ...

 


#103 Altostrata

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 04:48 PM

Please post questions about your particular situation in your Intro topic.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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