Esperanca: Diferences between WD, drugs and illness syntoms

[Esperanca]

I do not know differentiate clearly, the withdrawal symptoms, disease, drugs and supplements

I took no supplements because Altostrata warned us that no commercial program is good.

The best is to do so slowly and patiently removed. I was doing the supplements list

TBR to buy, but I suspended it.

Currently 1/2 comp clomipramine (Anafranil) 50mg and 10mg Valium middle of composing. It's the first time I try WD reading survivingantidepressants. Always I did on my own.

 

Today the symptoms are weak but sometimes are accentuated. I have symptoms as if anything was a big scare

that spreads in seconds, until becoming a huge wave of the sea. Many things become disproportionate for me to bear, but without panic really. Today I travel alone, I submitted myself to surgery without problems,etc... but I have many

emotional pain. I feel small, bad thoughts,etc... dizziness, wheezing in the ears, as if listening to the "silence the noise"  (beginning two months), and more symptoms that I describe in my signature...and more many, many others symptoms

 

I am very confuse with me and  as i sad in  Topic Title: i dont know diferenciate bettween those kind of symptoms

and dont know if i am right with my WD

 

[KarenB]

Hello Esperanca and welcome to s/a,

 

It can be hard to know what are withdrawal symptoms and what are underlying problems, but the things you listed are all very common withdrawal-symptoms, and they will eventually go away.  Have you had a read of this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/ which has many useful ideas for coping with symptoms?

 

I guess you've been reading on this site for a while and have found some idea helpful.  Two supplements that are recommended here are cod-liver-oil with vitamin E, and magnesium:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/ and http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/  Many people here find they make a real difference.

 

I know it feels really horrible and quite scary sometimes too, but you will get through this - you will heal.

 

How long since you started this recent tapering, and did you use the 10% recommendation?  The mods here are very experienced and will be able to help you know if you've started off gently enough. 

 

There will be lots of support for you here, so have a read of the topics and keep coming back to ask any more questions you have.

 

Hugs,

KarenB

[Esperanca]

Dear Karen.

How precious your words and life direction to my life. I apreciate your victory since child. I am so gratefull for your used time with me. 

Today i only tell you this, because i suffered a surgery today morning, but i will write more another day. For now, i hug you. I saw your blog. I am there.

Bye to the next day. 

[KarenB]

Hope your surgery and recovery go well Esperanca, you are right to get that settled first.  Thinking of you and sending hugs as well,

 

Karen

[brassmonkey]

Hi Esperanca-- welcome to the group.  I hope the surgery went well and that you recovery quickly.  It would be a good idea to wait until you are recovered before we start to taper you off of the pills.  In the meantime we have a lot of information you should read to start getting yourself ready.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Thank you for adding a signature block, it makes it much easier for us to help you.

[KarenB]

Hi Esperanca,

 

Hoping you are recovering well from your surgery, and that you've been feeling okay generally (was thinking about you and just wanted to check in).

 

Hugs,

KarenB

[JanCarol]

Ola Esperanca,

 

Your symptoms are like what we describe here as withdrawal.  Especially if they are new symptoms for you.

 

I will need to correct Karen and say we do not recommend cod liver oil - but fish oil (Omega 3 EPA/DHA).  Cod liver oil - while good - contains vitamin A and can be overstimulating.  It is also a compound - as you noticed, we prefer simple things.

 

Magnesium (not oxide) and Fish Oil is good to help (but if you are going into surgery, Australian medicine asks you to stop fish oil for surgery)  Fish oil has made amazing help in brain injuries, and magnesium is essential for many chemical reactions in the body.  The best type of magnesium is magnesium citrate or glycinate - anything but magnesium oxide, which is not absorbed well.

 

There is more information on these at:  Magnesium and Omega-3 fish oil

 

Also here, you can see a checklist of symptoms and track your progress.  

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

And you may wish to understand better the waves:  they seem horrible and forever, but they will pass.  Soon you will have windows, and that is a sign that this trouble will be gone.

 

Waves and Windows

 

Please let us know how your surgery went?

[Esperanca]

Hello Karen

After the first time that responded and helped me so much, I had a surgery and was well, but it was another very extensive surgery (pyeloplasty and calculations of kidey), I made in another city, through robotics and again take me long to me to recover. I got a double catheter "J" for 30 days and this causes a lot of pain. Finally I removed it, there are 3 days, and here I am back to thank your and to others who have helped me. I walked all the sites that you showed me, including High guidelines and bought some compounds and'm programming me to start taking them after the surgeries.Ia'm not attending your blog but I will.

During that time, I was taking, as I said, 5m Valium and 25 mg of Anafranil, but began to feel that Valium was not having an effect and, moreover was giving me depression, which NEVER had had with Valium. I do not know if I did right, but increased the dose to 3/4 or 7.5mg and reached up to 10 mg, but he sometimes relieves and sometimes worse. You know what I do? I feel as electricity in my legs as i had taken a electrical chock

[Esperanca]

Hi Esperanca-- welcome to the group.  I hope the surgery went well and that you recovery quickly.  It would be a good idea to wait until you are recovered before we start to taper you off of the pills.  In the meantime we have a lot of information you should read to start getting yourself ready.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Thank you for adding a signature block, it makes it much easier for us to help you.

Hello Brassmonkey . Now i finished my surgeries

[brassmonkey]

Hello Esperansa-  Welcome back.  I'm so glad the surgeries went well and you are recovering.  I've had two major surgeries myself and know how long it takes to feel better afterwards.

 

How long ago did you increase the Valium?  When Valium stops working taking a bigger dose can help some, but only for a short time then it will stop working again. It would not be wise to increase it again.

 

Before we start planning your taper there are more things you should read:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3914-tips-for-tapering-doxepin-sinequan-zonalon/    this doesn't list Anafranil but it is the same type of drug.

 

Preparing to taper

[KarenB]

It's good to hear from you again Esperanca, and I'm glad your surgeries are over.  They were tiring for you I imagine.  Brassmonkey knows more about those medications than I do, so have a read of his links and then you guys can make a plan. 

 

Tapering slowly and gently is the key.  Are you taking fish-oil and magnesium?  They can help ease things for you. 

 

Hugs,

KarenB

[Esperanca]

Hello Brasss and all. Thank you first of all. I was taking 5 mg of Valium there are about three months, but took no regularly, so when scared me or small panic. From a month , MORE OR less, I started to take it more regularly, but not every day, but every other day. And I think it was hence I started to feel that 5 mg had no effect, because I spent years taking 10 mg SO WHEN NEEDED VERY RARELY, spending up to one year without taking it and there I decided to just take it 5 mg9BEFORE TO KNOW ABOUT 10%) to travel, or with small bouts of panic (mini crises) or anxiety. Now that I have operated me and I'm out of my town and home and going to another I operate, I have been very tense and when I get anxious or tense is fatal, have to take it. Than three months or so decided to take 5 mg irregularly, as I said. Finally, there are a few days I began to see that not 5 or even 7.5 and 10 mg, were the effect of which was used and, besides said started giving me depression and feeling of contraction in the legs, as weak electric shocks.that will be answered your question? I know I must go making withdrawal with 10%, but what about when you feel the symptoms of mini panic and anxiety etc ...? Not have to increase the dose, or should I endure the symptoms without taking anything? Already read a lot about cone, including the link you sent. Here we do not have medical aid for this purpose. All refuse to do it because they think it is the base disease, the panic and the return of symptoms. But I'm looking like needle in the haystack. Not leave to seek

So I have great difficulties but I am looking overcome them one by one.

Also still confuse me a lot how to deal with SA's resources even as much as the psychoactive beta-blocker that take takes my memory and so much more.

Below vain to take more drugs for hypertension, etc glaucoma: brimonidine ophthalmic

Nebivolol - beta-blockers antihypertensive

nicardipine - dilator peripheral antihypertensive

Anafranil (clomipramine)

Valium (diazepam). Drugs.com also downloaded the application and read a lot of the Alto, which is a spectacle, but I have reread many times to understand and to store in memory.

But I have courage to continue to make wd and keep reading and asking for help. I know I'll improve but be good.even please do not forget me: so much information from my case, but I'm better and clarify things one by one that you need

[Esperanca]

Do not forget that I have to interpret from English to Portuguese and vice versa and this for me is Difficult because i dont understand very well Inglês  Thank you so much. My gratfull for your alll

[brassmonkey]

Hello Esperanca--  That explanation about the Valium really helps. It is best to use it as little as possible so it does not loose its effectiveness.  There are some good nondrug things you can do to help with the anxiety and panic  Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms      

 

When you start to reduce by 10% you will still feel some symptoms, but they should be mild.  So you should try to ignore them and go on about your life as best as you can.  You only want to increase your dose if the symptoms are so bad you can't possibly live with them.

 

We will help you over come the problems one by one.

[Esperanca]

Hello Brass.

 

Ok, i got it. Thank you so much for your attention.

Now, i begin with 10% from 5 mg or 10% from 10 mg, the dosage i had took before?

Thnak you so much once more

[brassmonkey]

10% of what you are taking right now.  How long have you been taking the dose you took today?

[Esperanca]

Three mouths

[Esperanca]

Scuse me: three months

[brassmonkey]

Just so I can be sure, now you're taking 25mg anafranil and 5mg Valium every day, and have been for three months.

[JanCarol]

Ola Esperanca, Feliz Natal!  

 

Sorry, that's the limit of my Portuguese, but I wanted to greet you in your native tongue on this beautiful day.

 

You wrote about the Valium:

 

 

 And I think it was hence I started to feel that 5 mg had no effect, 

 

Just because you cannot feel it, doesn't mean it isn't doing something.

 

As Brass said, it's better if you do not increase your dose, even if you can't feel it working.

 

Do you want to taper the Valium first, or the Anafranil?  We have a discussion about this:

Polydrugs? Taper off the Antidepressant First!

 

Also, you and I talked about healing the tummy, we have discussions about that, too:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3413-digestive-problems-nausea-diarrhea-bloating-gerd/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2318-irritable-bowel-syndrome-gut-bacteria-and-what-you-can-do/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4945-food-sensitivities/

 

There is more, but that's too much reading?

 

I applaud your bravery, and so glad your surgery went well.

[Fresh]

Hi Esperanca. This is your thread for your updates and questions.

 

"I have not gone so well in my retreat. In fact I had to correctly reduce 10% of each drug, it is l- Anafranil clomipramine and dizepan. Only a few days there might buy the balance and has not yet come. Bought from Amazon.com, guided by friends here in SA, but still not arrived because I am in Brazil. In fact, I have gone back several times to almost initial dose and, lately, I returned to Anafranil 25 two tablets a day and Valium so when I am very stressed, because there about four months, I started with two noises in the ear. A type eh wheezing, DAY AND NIGHT, and the other is infrequent, but it appeared almost every day, first in the left ear and now on the right. An alternating with each other. This second eh as fose one bare wire touching the other. I do not know if anyone can help me. In the first episode, I was with excessive anxiety and had to go to homeopath and resume my almost full doses. Only after about 20 days I better, not the sizzle, but anxiety. Very nervous and scared. If someone can help me thank

Please also tell me how can I alone make the measures of the remedy and encapusula = them, or take them into powder, because I have not pharmacists to do it for me. In Brazil eh not common at all, making the drug reductions, at least that I know

The wheezing is horrivel.Nem know if have a cure"

[Fresh]

The sounds in your ears are a common symptom of withdrawal called "tinnitus" see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1736-tinnitus-what-does-all-that-noise-mean/

 

Please can you update your signature with dates and doses so we can see when you went up and down over the past

few months.

" I have gone back several times to almost initial dose and, lately, I returned to Anafranil 25 two tablets a day and Valium"

 

How were you measuring 10% decreases , were you guessing?

 

The most important thing you can do at this point is probably to stay on the same doses you're taking for 2 or 3 months.

Hopefully the tinnitus will settle when you stop changing doses.

 

You can learn to do 10% cuts accurately without guessing , you don't need a pharmacist.

All the information you need is here on this site.

What did you buy from amazon that hasn't arrived yet?

[JanCarol]

Ola Esperanca, how are you?

 

You wrote:

what about when you feel the symptoms of mini panic and anxiety etc 

 

It is important to keep all drugs stable.  Same dose, same time each day.  This helps prevent withdrawal anxiety.

 

Please tell us what you are taking, when.  Please stay on the same dose for at least a month, then we will talk about tapers - there are many ways to do it.  Some people take a nail file, and count the number of strokes they remove from a tablet, for example.  Some people use scales, some make a liquid.  But you need to stay on a stable dose and learn about tapers before you start changing your doses.

 

For symptoms, we all have them, and have to live through them.  But what works is different for everyone.

 

Here are some ideas:

Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[Esperanca]

The sounds in your ears are a common symptom of withdrawal called "tinnitus" see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1736-tinnitus-what-does-all-that-noise-mean/

 

Please can you update your signature with dates and doses so we can see when you went up and down over the past

few months.

" I have gone back several times to almost initial dose and, lately, I returned to Anafranil 25 two tablets a day and Valium"

 

How were you measuring 10% decreases , were you guessing?

 

The most important thing you can do at this point is probably to stay on the same doses you're taking for 2 or 3 months.

Hopefully the tinnitus will settle when you stop changing doses.

 

You can learn to do 10% cuts accurately without guessing , you don't need a pharmacist.

All the information you need is here on this site.

What did you buy from amazon that hasn't arrived yet?

 

Dear Friend.

 

I buy one balance of accuracy more or less like that: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESHDGOI/ref=psdc_678508011_t3_B0012TDNAMand i am waiting for it.

Maybe more 10 days it will arrived. 

About new signature with write dates and quantities os drugs, i asked help to my nephew to do the text in English , because i only do the texts in eletronic and it is difficult to understand me very well. He, my newphew , is helping me to do the rigt text. Pls could you wait for me? I am so confuse too and my memory is very poor i thing because clomipramine and this is more difficult for me. I am gratefull to you and you time spending with me. 

Edited May 16, 2016 by JanCarol
fix quotes

[Fresh]

We understand Esperanca. This is also more difficult for you because English is not your

first language.

 

We suggest just decreasing one drug at a time. You may be in trouble from cutting both valium

and anafranil.

As JanCarol suggests , please stay on the same doses for a month or two and you should feel much better.

 

Have you ever used the google translater? It might make this easier for you.

 

[Esperanca]

pls jan answer me i am waiting i dont know if i posted in wrong place thankful 

[Esperanca]

i dont know where i answered you  maybe a 5 days and i am waiting your answer. Pld, thnak you I clicked in more reply options or report, inside your before answer

[Fresh]

Please use your thread to ask questions instead of sending messages to the moderators.

 

What answers are you wanting at the moment?

[Esperanca]

Fresh , pls anwer me the last one my answer The last  answer i  cli ked in Report-Edit-Multiquote or quote. Because something i dont know where to answer.Forgive me this confusion 

[Esperanca]

We understand Esperanca. This is also more difficult for you because English is not your

first language.

 

We suggest just decreasing one drug at a time. You may be in trouble from cutting both valium

and anafranil.

As JanCarol suggests , please stay on the same doses for a month or two and you should feel much better.

 

Have you ever used the google translater? It might make this easier for you.

 

 

 

I answered you mauybe five days ago mnore or less and i dont find thies answer Help me and say me if  you received pls thank k you so much

[Esperanca]

Ola Esperanca, Feliz Natal!  

 

Sorry, that's the limit of my Portuguese, but I wanted to greet you in your native tongue on this beautiful day.

 

You wrote about the Valium:

 

 

 And I think it was hence I started to feel that 5 mg had no effect, 

 

Just because you cannot feel it, doesn't mean it isn't doing something.

 

As Brass said, it's better if you do not increase your dose, even if you can't feel it working.

 

Do you want to taper the Valium first, or the Anafranil?  We have a discussion about this:

Polydrugs? Taper off the Antidepressant First!

 

Also, you and I talked about healing the tummy, we have discussions about that, too:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3413-digestive-problems-nausea-diarrhea-bloating-gerd/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2318-irritable-bowel-syndrome-gut-bacteria-and-what-you-can-do/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4945-food-sensitivities/

 

There is more, but that's too much reading?

 

I applaud your bravery, and so glad your surgery went well.

]

,I am thank ful to you, Maybe i did something wrong:

 

 

Pls Jan,i wrote to you  five days ago more or less and you maybe didnt receive my answer. Tell me something about that and answer me pls

[JanCarol]

Ola Esperanca - I'm sorry if you feel ignored or neglected.  As you see, Fresh and I both answered here.

 

But we cannot answer because we do not understand what you are doing.

 

We are not medical professionals, we cannot recommend drugs, and we can only make suggestions.  You have to make your own decisions, because it is your body, and your health.

 

I believe that both of us have told you to stay on your same dose for 1-3 months (longer is better) to see what it is like on the lower dosages.

 

The reason you failed to get off on previous occasions is that you were thrown into withdrawal and had to go back on the drug.  Our suggestions for tiny dose changes and one change at a time - is to try and prevent those withdrawal symptoms.  

 

FRESH:  Here is an english translation of Esperanca's signature:

 

 

 

 

The disorder Panic and Depression in 1972, with 27 years (TODAY 70) about 8/10 Attacks / day. starting 10mg Valium (no Doctor) in 1975 15/15 OR 20/20 days without Regularity in more grave crisis with the absence of 6 months to 1 year without Valium.

 

In 1986 with hum 25mg prescribed Psyq Anafranil (Clomipramine) day = 2 x 50 = mg / WD .Tried more than 10 times since 2004; the 7th or 8ªa time (2012) managed to stay six months without any psychoactive I have taken gradually. I was so happy, and then I had strong symptoms: negative thoughts, such as suicide, fears to run trofissionais tasks, fear of not being loved, tachycardia, physiological needs, low self-esteem, the kind of peripheral nerves zap lower limbs

 

Today 25 mg / day and ½ Valium 5 mg / day to day can pass without symptoms, but returned to earlier but weaker   25/12/15 There three months, began the withdrawal of 50% (I do not even know yet that was to start at 10%) 10-5 mg Valium and Anafranil from 50 to 25 mg, but started with depression who had not (fast remade depresao me) and, so far. Increased again to 10 mg Valium continued depression, but not all the time. I am now taking 10% of Valium 5 mg and 25mg 10% Anafranil

 

***

Please, Esperanca, start learning about Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

Try these:

 

How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

Claire Weekes - Self Help for your Nerves

 

Tolle - Get Rid of Fear and Anxiety

 

We are not in your day-to-day life.  We cannot be there if you have panic or anxiety.

 

If you choose to go off psychiatric drugs, then you will need to fill the role that they played in controlling your symptoms.

 

You need to learn to cope and deal with your own symptoms.  I am in Australia, as is Fresh.  We cannot come to your house and sit with you and tell you to breathe, and teach you how to survive these symptoms, as much as we'd like to!  

 

Therefore, you need learn to :  recognize your symptoms, breathe, distract, whatever it is you need to survive the symptoms.

 

The symptoms will pass.  It will get better.  But we cannot make it better for you.  Only you can do that.

[Fresh]

Thanks for the translation JanCarol. Most readers (including myself) don't understand portugese so the signature

needs to be in English.

 

Esperanca , what does " I am now taking 10% of Valium 5 mg and 25mg 10% Anafranil" mean?

 

 

1. What doses are you taking now?

 

2. Since what date?

[Esperanca]

Dear My True friends. Now That i had find where JanCarol and Fresh answered me. Thank God I found what I was looking for. Why I had difficulty? Because the psychoactive OR My mental distortion, cause me mental confusion and emotional. Apologize me sincerely Having written direct to you so friends, dedicated and volunteers.  I've already been MANY times there in site SA but,  but i didnt do  often, and I forget How did before and as act of According to the philosophy of the site and According to community the order for what not overfill you guys. Truly apologize. Pardon!! I did not think to send directely Message for you guys. So I ask you to forgive me. Now, with little more peace, I will have read MANY times what you had answered me to understand you deeply said to me and responds them so clearly. I ask you then to wait for me. I modified my signature. SO I was more quiet. I was very anxious. But now I'm happy and I hope to get better and better with the help SA and ITS volunteers. Please if DO NOT appear My signature in English Here yout CAN GO ON Forum My settings. Totally grateful for you. 

[Esperanca]

29.04.2016 neuro emotions come and go. Taking a SAME remain doses of 30/60 days, although I feel horrible symptoms. I will not use drugs, but others as research N ON drugs, such as chat with friends, meditation and use the computer where I can change the focus of my mind.

 

29.04.2016- my precision scale had come from Amazom.com today. When i will begin WD it will be easier for me

 

I was feeling side effects          but I do not take medicin.

Now, after 30/60 days, I will use my precision scales for aplicate 10% in  withdrawal;

 

NOTE I ask everyone, if my signature is appearing in English or not, because I wrote it in English and someone says to me is not in English. i dont know what happens. Thank you for this favor.

 

I use Chrome navigator 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Esperanca

[ChessieCat]

Hi Esperanca,

 

Your signature is showing up in English.