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Rachel1963: Up and down symptoms.

mirtazapine Remeron

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#37 Rachel1963

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:06 PM

I have been reading here and people say it takes one week to stabilise, 2 weeks, 3, a month, months and sometimes doesn't work at all. I'm a bit mixed up about it. I guess I just have to wait and see for this adrenalin to go away. It's the worst because it lasts most of the day. Has anybody had a similar experience?
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#38 Rachel1963

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:08 PM

Anyhow, after all this ruminating. I'm not going to change my dose again. I'm going to stay here like people have suggested and wait it out. What else Is there to do?
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#39 KarenB

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:30 PM

That's it Rachel, waiting is a large part of the game.  But how you fill that waiting time - that's up to you.  What takes your fancy?  Getting more practised at something?  Maybe meditation, maybe tweaking some part of your diet, maybe writing something you've never had time for before? 

 

So many possibilities :)...


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#40 Rachel1963

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:31 PM

Thank you Karen...my house is very clean I have to say. I noticed today that the burning on my skin is gone and the pins and needles are almost gone so I am starting to come around. I guess I was off them for five weeks before the w/d symptoms hit epic proportions so maybe it will take awhile for them to ease up again. They remind me of the symptoms I had when my menopause first started. Makes sense, it's a chemical just like this one.
I am trying my best to get some things accomplished Karen. I still have a strong need for affirmation on a day like today. Thank you for that 😊
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#41 Rachel1963

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:41 PM

Karen now that we will be doing a slow taper together I look forward to getting to know you...you sound like an awesome person!
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#42 KarenB

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:45 PM

Turtle-taperers of the world unite :lol:.  Glad you are noticing some small improvements - so encouraging for you.

 

As for 'awesome' I'll happily take that in the sense that each person on this site is awesome for getting through this mess.

 

Is Ontario in Canada?  Do you live with family there?  I have my husband, daughters aged 13 and 10, a dog, a cat and 6 chickens.  We live in Raglan which is a small town by the sea on the wild west coast.

 

Nice to meet you Rachel :) 

 

KarenB 


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#43 Rachel1963

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 06:15 AM

Hi Karen! Yes Ontario is a province of Canada. I live in Barrie, it's just north of Toronto. Right now I live with myself and my two kitties. I have two grown up boys. I have a husband but he lives in Hungary right now. He was here visiting and we met and fell in love and got married but then he had to go home again. I've been over to visit him for six weeks. We are hoping he can come to Canada to live.
It sounds like you live in a beautiful place! I wish I lived near the sea!
A funny thing happened last night about my reinstatement. I was full of anxiety and adrenalin all day yesterday and just beside myself about why the mirtazapine wasn't kicking in like it has before. I went to bed and took my dose at 10 pm. I was awake at midnight and it felt like someone was sandpapering my skin. I thought to myself, I guess my body is just not going to accept it this time. I decided to stop taking it and just buckle down for withdrawals. Then after about ten minutes I felt this coolness move over my body like cool water and the prickles went away and I felt myself drifting off to sleep. This is how it went into my body the two times I reinstated before. So I know it's early yet but I think the reinstatement might work, knock wood, it's just there was so little left in my body and it was getting used to being without it that it was slow to start working. So please cross your fingers. I don't want to suffer a withdrawal. I'm in no rush now and I've sure learned my lesson. I don't know if you pray, but if you do, say a little prayer for me. Take good care!
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#44 Rachel1963

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 07:27 AM

It has been six days at this dose and the last three days I have not had the adrenalin rush or the wound up feeling. I'm still not great but I'm feeling a little better and very relieved.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#45 KarenB

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 08:18 PM

That's good progress.  Just keep it steady...you'll get there.

 

Glad you have cats - I remember reading somewhere on s/a that cuddling a purring cat is a good way to relax and calm your CNS.  Such a delightful remedy :).  Especially till your husband can live in Canada again - what a hard situation for you.


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#46 AliG

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 02:45 AM

Rachel,

 

I'm pleased that you found a dose to stabilize on , where you are feeling good.  From here, you can take your time and do a slow taper,at your leisure all the while

remaining functional , whole and with minimal withdrawal symptoms. I hope so, anyway. That is the aim . I hope it continues for you.

Ali


Many SSRI's &SSNRI's over 20 years . Zoloft - 7 years .  Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and many more - on and off . No tapering. Cold turkey -  Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                            Drug free since May, 2014
.
             "Find a place inside where there's joy and the joy will burn out the pain" - Joseph Campbell


#47 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 05:06 AM

Thank you guys for that. The fact is that yesterday I had a bad day and I felt suicidal. I went to talk to my mom and decided I needed to go to my regular dose of 30 mg. I had a yucky buzzy feeling all night after taking it because I guess my body doesn't like it anymore. I don't really know what to do. I'm very scared. I need to work as I watch every penny. I just hope my body will start accepting this dose and make me feel better or I will be in trouble. This drug was holding my menopause symptoms at bay and now they are coming back. If it doesn't work I don't know what I will do. I was so foolish for rushing down off of it instead of tapering it very slowly. All I can do now is pray. I don't want the doctor to stick me on all kinds of other meds. I have felt my depression slowly returning too, and with it the dark thoughts.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#48 AliG

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 06:03 AM

Rachel,

 

Are you sure about this ? You went from 1mg , to 3.5mg, to 15 mg and now doubled to 30 mg, in a very short time. That is a lot of change, in a very short time . I hope you can stabilize and taper slowly from here on in. I think it's too much . You might have some problems. I hope it will be ok.

Best wishes ,

Ali


Many SSRI's &SSNRI's over 20 years . Zoloft - 7 years .  Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and many more - on and off . No tapering. Cold turkey -  Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                            Drug free since May, 2014
.
             "Find a place inside where there's joy and the joy will burn out the pain" - Joseph Campbell


#49 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 06:25 AM

The smaller doses didn't seem to be helping to make the intense inner tension go away, just get a little bit less. Then I started to get hot flashes and cold flashes which are what was happening before I was on it. I've been starting to feel like I don't want to be here anymore. I had severe depression before the mirtazapine. It really helped me. Several months after feeling better I felt I could go off it. I hate to take any medication. Then after being off for five weeks I got these awful inner tension feelings and didn't know if it was withdrawal or the feelings I had at the beginning of my menopause. They make me feel just awful. I want to try this dose to see if it makes them go away. I just feel lost right now but this feels like the best thing to do at the moment. I'm just so upset right now I don't know if I'm coming or going.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#50 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 06:30 AM

I'm very cold and shaky right now. Part of me just wants to flush them down the toilet and suffer through withdrawal because they don't seem to be helping me anyway.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#51 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 06:52 AM

My husband and I talked about it this morning. I told him I want to taper very slowly this time and wait lots of time inbetween for my body to adjust each time.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#52 brassmonkey

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 10:53 AM

Hi Rachel-- Didn't you just updoes to 15mg like a week ago?  Making such a huge jump by going clear back to 30mg is a very dangerous thing to do after having done a fast taper and been off for several weeks. Your CNS is very sensitive right now making the risk of an adverse reaction very high.  Please reconsider going back to the 15mg and just sitting there until the end of January at the earliest before you consider another increase.


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mg it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.008mg 03-17-2016

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking


#53 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 12:40 PM

I talked to my doctor and told him I didn't feel well after the 30 dose. He said to stay at 15 for a bit too and then see how that does so I will do that. The concern I have is that the mirt really helped with my menopause symptoms. I think tapering too fast was as if I had ripped away my estrogen. The menopause symptoms would in all likelihood come right back because I didn't wean off them. I think that is what happened here. My menopause symptoms are coming back because my body had no time to adjust to each lower dose. So it's not just withdrawal symptoms that are happening because the symptoms that are happening now are just like the menopause symptoms. My thinking is if that's the case shouldn't I go back to the dose I was at that was controlling my menopause symptoms and then stay there until they are gone? The prickly skin, the hot flashes, the cold flashes, the rushes of adrenalin, the mood swings, and then wean off at a rate similar to the way I have weaned off half my estrogen; it took over a year...that's my thinking...I don't want the awful symptoms that have come back. I had severe menopause symptoms, for some reason my estrogen dropped very quickly and I have been having a good quality of life dropping my estrogen very slowly and I should have done that with the mirt as well but forgot how they might all interact together and blundered down without a thought. I just want the bad days to go away.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#54 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 12:52 PM

I'm not sure why it is a dangerous thing to do if my body was at that level before? Is that a dumb question? I've read lots about reinstatement here; that it can take a long time, that it might not work but I also see that people have reinstated on their original dose.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#55 KarenB

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 01:21 PM

The reason it could cause you problems is that each time you increase or decrease your dose, it further destabilises your CNS.  So your body today is not at the same stability it was when you were last on that 30mg dose, therefore it is less likely to be able to cope.  (And there are no dumb questions - it's all part of slowly working everything out). 

 

I'm glad your doctor agreed you should stay at 15mg - stability should be your main aim right now. 

 

I hear you when you say the meds have really helped you in the past.  I got a lot of relief also when I first started SSRIs - but that was the trap.  It seems that for many people they cease to work so well, and then they can start to cause adverse reactions etc.  For that reason you might want to be looking at natural ways of managing menopause as well as the anxiety/difficult feelings.  

 

I know you are scared right now, and not sure if you can cope being med-free.  We've all had those feelings, you're not alone there.  I want to encourage you that you can build up the strength and tools you need to do this.  If that's the path you want to take, you'll be able to find a way.    

 

Thinking of you today,

KarenB 


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#56 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 02:05 PM

Thanks Karen! I most certainly do not want to be on these meds for a long time. I have been on them several times in the past and to me it is like taking poison. I am already thinking of the best way to tackle them. The way I went down to half of my estrogen was to make a decent cut and then hold for longer. That seems to work the best for me. The longest I have been on an antidepressant before is 4 years after a brutal tragedy happened to me and I was able to go off them when I felt ready and enough time had passed. I also used them to quit smoking and only stayed on them 3 months.
My doctor said I could wait a few weeks to increase, not until January. I'll see how I feel when I get there.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#57 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 02:08 PM

I'm afraid of my own self right now. I want the antidepressant to stop my very negative thoughts which they did before. I don't want to be a danger to myself so when someone says it's dangerous I have to weigh which is more dangerous of the two things. I'm trying to stop beating myself up. Thank you for thinking about me.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#58 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 02:10 PM

My menopause is slowly getting better. I'm through the worst. I'm surprised how much of it was being held back by the antidepressants. Or maybe just the quick taper stirred everything up? Not sure.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#59 brassmonkey

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 03:51 PM

Hi Rachel--  I reread my post from this morning and I think I was rather heavy handed in the way I put things.  As Karen explained better, every time a person uses and quits or changes doses the CNS is sensitized, and the more times it happens the more sensitive it becomes.  When a person is on a certain dose the brain gets use to it, but when the dose is changed or removed the brain gets very confused because it physically needs the drug to function "correctly".  Without the drug present the brain starts to slowly sort things out and make the necessary changes to function with out it. Then if you throw a full dose of the drug back on top of it, the poor ol' brain gets even more confused.  But if you slip it just a little of the drug it goes "aah thanks, that helps the pieces fall in place".  This is why we want people to reinstate a small amount at a time, to smooth out the bumps not add to the confusion.

 

The danger lies in that by reinstating the full dose all at once it is very easy to trigger an Adverse Reaction, which can be WD times a thousand.  It doesn't happen to everyone, but it happens often enough that we really have to watch out for it.  Then throw on top of it the frustration that things take so ...... long to change.  Like you have read a small updose can take many weeks to several months to take affect. We have to develop the patience of saints to get through this, but if we do we can get through with a minimum of pain and maintain a fair quality of life while we do.


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mg it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.008mg 03-17-2016

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking


#60 Rachel1963

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 04:51 PM

Thanks Brassmonkey; I know you were only trying to help me. Thank you for explaining it to me. It's reminds me that my brother was off the Paxil he takes for four months and then his anxiety returned and so he thought he would take a double dose of his usual to see if it would help and then had a bad reaction and had to go to the hospital until he felt better. I will try to be more patient. Thanks for your help.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#61 Rachel1963

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:09 PM

So I have been at the same dose for six days now and was starting to have a lessening of symptoms. Yesterday I had pretty much a normal day. Then today I felt terribly sad and unfocused and in the afternoon I felt very antsy for several hours. I have been sleeping better now too. I feel today was a step back. The only thing I did differently yesterday was have a relaxation massage. Could this have caused my bad day or what else?
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#62 Rachel1963

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:36 PM

I mean 8 days at the 15.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#63 KarenB

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 10:00 PM

Hi Rachel,

 

Since I've been in w/d, massage really exhausts me.  Something else massage can do is kind of work things out and through, even emotional things.  So after a massage you may feel some of the sadness that you'd been holding inside. 

 

Of course it's also possible that you just had a bit more of a wave of symptoms, as they do come and go a bit.  You can read about the windows and waves pattern of stabilisation here.  The fact that your symptoms were lessening is a good sign of healing.

 

Keep holding at that dose for a good while longer - probably a few months - to get yourself really stable.  Here's a good discussion of the benefits of holds:  http://survivinganti...of-slow-tapers/

 

You're getting there Rachel,

Hugs,

KarenB


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#64 Rachel1963

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 06:31 AM

Thanks Karen...I needed that. I still have lots of symptoms left, but the intensity of them is lightening a little bit each day. I have chills and weird wound up feelings every other day or so, then I am exhausted by evening. I have strange electrical feelings too, that scare me. But I am crying less each day. I have muscles twitching here and there and in the mornings I feel that I might throw up. When this first started I gagged and gagged and now it passes quickly. I have a little piece of paper tucked in my bra that says; Be patient. Getting a little better every day. My concentration is getting a little better too. It was five weeks off before I went crazy with symptoms. One day they weren't there and the next day they were there in full bloom. Maybe it will take five weeks for them to undo.
There is no danger of me tapering too fast. I'm so angry and upset that I feel so awful. I wish I had found this site before my taper. I never had this problem before the few times I took them, but I only ever took a tiny dose before. And it wasn't Mirtazapine. I'm just so frustrated that I ruined my peace of mind by this taper! At least I don't feel suicidal anymore. I felt like that about a week ago. I think the doctor wants me to stay on this forever so I think there is no fear that I will have lots of meds for a taper when the time comes. In the meantime I will just patiently wait to feel better and then do the slowest taper in the world. When I tapered off a benzo I took nearly three years to get off 15 mg of Valium. Who knew these were as bad if not worse!
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#65 Rachel1963

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:52 AM

I'm still confused about whether these are withdrawal symptoms or some of my menopause symptoms coming back. Maybe a little bit of both. But I'm starting to lean towards withdrawal symptoms. I just don't understand how after I went off I went through the usual withdrawal symptoms and was getting so much better, sleeping and feeling happy and then all of a sudden, when I should have been passed them, I had an explosion of symptoms that reminded me of early menopause. But in reading here I've seen that even men can have the same symptoms and I know they aren't going through menopause! I just don't know what to think! Either way, if I do a very slow taper my body will adjust without the meds whether it be menopause or withdrawal.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#66 Rachel1963

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:55 AM

I know my menopause is getting less because I have been able to almost half my esteogen tablets. I suspect everything was tied in together and I threw a big wrench into everything instead of 'sneaking' one of the meds away like I should have. I just hated being on them so much I thought I would be fine and I felt really good for the first time in a long time and I wanted my husband to be proud of me and so on.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#67 Rachel1963

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:35 PM

My mood is better too.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#68 KarenB

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:43 PM

I tend to think that when a person is in w/d, the symptoms will be w/d rather than anything else such as menopause.  Of course there will be occasions when there is some coincidence and a person does have another issue, but generally it will be w/d. 

 

I'm glad to hear about your improving mood - that can make it easier to cope with everything else, I've found. 


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#69 Rachel1963

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 05:55 AM

I made a list of my symptoms and which ones have resolved so I can see that it is working. When I saw this list I thought no wonder it is taking awhile, it took a long time to get to this point and gather all these symptoms, it will likely take a long time to undo them all:
-twitching muscles
- sinus pressure
- chills (getting better)
- wobbly inside (getting better)
- foggy head in morning
- akisthasia wound up (getting better)
- weepy
- obsessing
- prickles (gone)
- scratchy skin (a little better)
- burning skin (gone)
- feeling hot (getting better)
- 'bad days'
- irritability (gone)
- mood swings
- adrenalin rushes (gone)
- fears
- feelings of dread
- lack of interest (a little better)
- lump in chest (gone)
- sad upon waking (gone)
- electrical feelings (a little better)
- sore eyes
- gagging in morning (mostly gone)
- palpitations (gone)
- restless legs (gone)
- nightmares (gone)
- diarreah (gone)
- anxiety (gone)
- confusion (gone)
- nausea (gone)
- excessive tiredness (gone)
- insomnia (not as bad)
- weakness (going away)
- night sweats (odd one)
- intense dreams
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#70 apace41

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 05:59 AM

I made a list of my symptoms and which ones have resolved so I can see that it is working. When I saw this list I thought no wonder it is taking awhile, it took a long time to get to this point and gather all these symptoms, it will likely take a long time to undo them all:

 

Maybe, maybe not, Rachel.

 

We have had experience with some people who "turn a corner" and have rapid improvement with several symptoms at once.  Others have taken longer.  It is so hard to predict how the path will go.  The good news is that you are, in fact, healing, and keeping track of your symptoms allows you to see that.  Good on you!

 

I say this only to make sure that you not feel overwhelmed by your "list" as I'm sure these are not all there all the time and, like most of us, they come and go on a rotating basis, as if to say, "HAHA, you thought I was gone?  I'll show you."

 

Frustrating, but if you know it is getting better it is easier to deal with.

 

Best,

 

Andy


Started Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg circa 2000; Sx Spring 2012. increased to .5 Clonazapam - no improvement; Started taper of K November 2012 (benzo sites said "taper benzo first"); increased Sert to100mg no improvement; Finished K microtaper in November 2014
Started Sertraline taper from 100mg in December 2014 by reducing to 75mg; Reduced to 62.5mg on January 1, 2015 and 50mg on February 1, 2015; Held at 50mg through April 5 when I got Rx for liquid Sertraline
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet on 10/5

Held through February with no noticeable change

March 2016 attempted to begin taper again but miscalculated into 1 week accidental updose to 32.5mg; dropped back to 25mg for 1 week; tapered to 22.5mg the following week; hit with symptoms and tried to stabilize between 22.5mg and 25mg.  Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy. Was dealing with horrible insomnia which had me sleeping once every other day.  Went back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016.  October 1 cut 4% to 24mg.  November 1 cut 8.3% to 22mg. December 1 cut 9% to 20mg.  Not great but functional. 2/1/17 cut 5% to 19mg.  Taking Spray-on Magnesium, Magnesium supplements, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Co-Q10, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine


#71 Rachel1963

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 06:00 AM

As you can see Karen, I'm not very well and trying to cope is hard when I'm working but I can't afford to be off work. It's so scary for me. I wish I didn't do this, I didn't know any better. I pray a lot that God will look after me and take me through this and I'll be okay.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.

#72 Rachel1963

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 06:02 AM

Thank you Andy. Yes they are coming and going. I only mark them as gone if I don't have them anymore. I do obsess for sure. I'll put my list somewhere safe until I need to look at it.
I was on Mirtazapine 30 mg for 2.5 years because of severe debilitating menopause related depression and physical symptoms. I tapered down to zero in 2.5 months. Five weeks off on November 10, I started having severe withdrawal symptoms. Took small reinstatement and continued updosing until 30 mg Nov. 30, 2015 as nothing seemed to be getting better and I was impatient. Made a desperate mistake and tried two other ssri's for eight days, bad side effects and stopped. Went back to 30 mg of Mirtazapine and nothing else as of January 14, 2016. Slowly started getting better. After two months symptoms became manageable and continue to slowly fade.
I also take 1.25 mg Premarin/Climara patch for menopause symptoms and have to wean off that too.





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