FunkyBaboon Writing my introductory post is hard write now

[FunkyBaboon]

I noticed that I had used "write" instead of "right" when I finished the sentence in my title but I thought I'd leave it in because it is the perfect example of the difficulties I'm having right now. Throughout my life my spelling and grammar have always been fantastic but I find myself at this point during withdrawal unable to articulate myself well at all.

 

Whilst writing a sentence I get part way through and then realise that I have forgotten what I had started talking about and so have to go back and and re-read what I have just written to get back on the same thread again. I often notice that I've written the same word twice or have missed a word out entirely. Having these difficulties at the sentence level means that I find it even harder to structure a longer piece of text so I find myself reading and re-reading everything that I've written countless times in order to try and determine what I've left out and what the gaps are.

 

Because it is taking me more than one sitting to put my introductory piece together I'm editing it in google docs because the forum won't let me save a post for submitting later. I'm also a bit of a perfectionist so combining that with the current mental fog and short term memory impairment from withdrawal I find myself putting it off and coming back occasionally and doing like 20 minutes on it here and there and it's taking me forever to get done.

 

Hopefully I can introduce myself to you all soon!!!

Edited July 21, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[Altostrata]

Good for you, you just wrote your introductory post.

[chicken]

Hi Funky,

I take it you're still tapering Nortriptyline now?

[Fresh]

Hi FunkyBaboon ,  welcome to the site.

 

You're having symptoms because you've been tapering too fast.  This site recommends decreases of no

more than 10% in order to avoid the debilitating symptoms.  As you've been going down by 2mg at a time ,

since 18mg your cuts have been proportionally increasing.  

 

Your signature tells a long story. . . well done.   Sit tight on 10mg for a couple of months , and you should

be alot better.

 

Good to meet you , best wishes ,  Fresh

If you click FOLLOW at the top right , you'll receive an email each time someone posts here.

[KarenB]

Hello FunkyBaboon and welcome to s/a,

 

Love your handle - it amazes me what people come up with.  Makes me feel very boring...  Anyway...

 

Fresh is right about tapering a bit fast.  Letting your central nervous system settle for a few months should mean that the rest of your taper after that goes more smoothly for you.  You could have a read about 10% tapering here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/.  And here is the thread for tapering off Nortryptyline.  Once you are good and settled, then we can work together to plan your next tapering step.

 

Have a read and come back to this thread to ask any further questions.  This thread is where you can journal your progress.  What are the withdrawal symptoms you are getting now? 

 

Thanks for filling out a signature too - you sure have been through a lot over the years.  Glad you are here for help.  The main thing to remember is to go slow and gentle, which this thread explains well.

 

Best wishes,

KarenB

[FunkyBaboon]

Hello! Lovely to meet you all... Thanks for making me feel so welcome me to the forum.

 

Altostrata - Thanks! I like what you did there. I feel like I'm on a tandem skydive with you and I wasn't quite ready to jump but you pushed me out anyways   It's probably for the best that I'm out there now I'll post my story soon...

 

chicken - yep tapering Nortryptyline now. I'm on a 10mg hold until about April next year so that I can stabilise and not have to go through any further reductions during the winter here as winter is a bad time for me these days with my body temperature control problems and my newly developed Raynaud's phenomenon (started during Citalopram withdrawal at age 32, which is an odd age for it to start the Rheumatologist told me).

 

Fresh - you're right the last couple of drops (14->12 and 12->10) were way more brutal than the first few (20->18 etc). I kind of knew that I was playing with fire before making those last couple of drops but didn't quite expect things to be as bad as they turned out - time off work, really struggling with sleep, cognitive impairment and short term memory problems. When I resume the drops next year I'll make sure to stick to the 10% rule and see how I go with that. Obviously, I just want this stuff out of my system and to get some form of emotion back as I feel they've been stolen from me for the past few years but at same time I don't want to damage my nervous system any further.

 

Karen - Thank you  It took me a while to come up with this one and finally I plunged for the first thing that came into my head. I seem to be unable to make any decisions at the moment so I sit around and deliberate on everything for what feels like ages before actually doing anything. Cheers for links, I just had a read of those and will make sure I stick to the recommendations next year when I resume my drops. The withdrawal symptoms I'm experiencing now are:-

• Muscle tension all over my body
• Find it hard to get to sleep
• Sleep quality is poor so wake up feeling as though I haven't even slept
• Breathing is really shallow & weak - feels like my body's drive to breathe is compromised
• Cognitive impairment so really struggling at work
• Poor attention span mind is jumping all over the place constantly
• Short term memory is affected keep forgetting what I'm doing etc
• Withdrawn and unable to function socially
• Body temperature problems
• Raynauds flare up

I had a sleep study in September to test for Sleep Apnea (possibly central sleep apnea) and I get the results back from that on Friday. Yes - it takes almost three months here on the NHS between study & results !! That list looks fairly long but it's a huge improvement on where I was two years ago after the Citalopram withdrawal & crash. So I remain hopeful that these things will sort themselves out over time but recovery is definitely slow.

[FunkyBaboon]

Hey guys & girls, FunkyBaboon here!

 

I’ve been a lurker for a long while and I have read through a lot of the information on this forum and boy it has been a life-saver - I finally have some comprehension about what has been happening to me over the past few years. Just knowing that I’m not alone (not that I wish this hell on anyone) and that everything that I have been experiencing is due to the drugs is extremely comforting.

 

Lately I have been struggling sufficiently to motivate me to create an account and put forward my story. I’ll start out with my childhood and then move through the years until present day giving you some idea of the challenges that I’ve faced and the drugs that I’ve taken along the way.

 

I've always been a shy, ruminative and pretty highly strung individual. I remember lying in bed worrying about things as a child and not being able to sleep. I used to have a notepad next to my bed so that I could write things down because I was worried that I'd forget about them by the next day, and for some reason that concerned me.

 

It's possible that my early exposure to caffeine, drinking both tea and coffee during the evenings as a child could have caused my troubles getting to sleep and contributed towards my development of an anxious nature. I even seem to remember my mum saying that she used to put tea in my baby bottle! I really don’t think giving an infant of a few weeks/months old caffeine is probably the best thing to do but she didn’t know any better, bless her.

 

At age 7 I had, what I later realised to be, my first panic attack. At the time neither myself or my parents knew what was happening to me and so I ended up in the children's ward at hospital. They didn't know what was wrong with me either and just kept me in for observation for a few days. Luckily, I wasn't in modern day USA at the time otherwise I'd probably have been polydrugged from early childhood!

 

My childhood was a pretty good one overall, no major problems and fortunately no abuse or anything like that. I did have quite a lot of pressure to achieve at school and this is something that I have carried with me into adulthood always giving myself a hard time about everything I do trying to do everything perfectly. Perfectionism is something that I am still battling with until this day and something I have to work hard to keep in check otherwise I can let it run away with me.

 

As a fairly socially anxious teenager at 15 years old I discovered alcohol and it's wondrous anxiolytic effects. Later I would go on to discover and use other recreational drugs such as cannabis, ecstasy, amphetamines, and cocaine. Alcohol & other drugs were pretty much a rite of passage in my home town and so I was surrounded by friends and peers who were all partaking themselves so there wasn't really much escape - it was considered "normal". I came to rely upon alcohol and drugs to relax me in social settings; these all had a positive effect on my anxiety at the time but much like psych meds came with their own baggage.

 

During my first term at university I developed panic disorder and had to go back home for a couple of months whilst I recovered. Neither my parents or I knew what was happening to me so they took me to see a neurologist who explained that I was suffering with panic attacks. He gave me a sheet describing progressive muscle relaxation and sent me on my way. The knowledge that I wasn't critically ill combined with the relaxation exercises really helped to bring me out of my anxious state and before long I was back at university ready to study again.

 

Over the years when struggling with my anxiety, such as my final year at university, I would go to my GP and tell them that I was struggling and they'd prescribe an anti-depressant or short term course of tranquilizer such as zopiclone or diazepam. I have been on and off various SNRI/SSRI/tricyclics and tranquilizers over the years but until recently I didn't realise that they could have been causing some of the problems that I continue to have.

 

My use of alcohol and other recreational drugs can't have helped my situation but having given up recreational drugs two years ago and rarely drinking any alcohol anymore the ordeal that I face today is being stuck on antidepressants and having severe withdrawal reactions on even the slightest of dose drop.

 

The following is my medication history:

 

2001 Venlafaxine 150mg

 

Being young and stupid I took some of my friend's capsules he gave me a handful of strips as I was feeling depressed. I didn't realise they didn't work like that.

 

2003 Paroxetine (20mg I think) daily for 5 months & Zopiclone as needed for sleep over a month or so

 

In early 2003 I took paroxetine for about 5 months. During the commencement of the medication I would also take zopiclone as needed to help me with my sleep. Once my exams were done and I realised I probably didn't need the paroxetine anymore I stopped taking it cold turkey not realising the potential for harm in doing this.

 

2003+

 

I have suffered with bouts of severe anxiety, akathisia, severe muscle tension & digestive problems but never really understood the potential link between cold turkeying paroxetine and these problems until recently.

 

2007 Clonazepam (unsure of dose)

 

I obtained some Clonazepam (approx 100 tablets) to try and self medicate for the anxiety I was experiencing at the time. I took these pretty much daily until I ran out.

 

2007-9 Amitryptyline 10mg

 

Told to take as and when required (stupid suggestion by prescriber) so took this a fair number of times over the span of 07-09 when I felt extra anxious.

 

2011 Diazepam 2mg (2 week course) & Citalopram 40mg

 

I was put on a 2 week course of diazepam and then near the end of my course I very stupidly went on a big night out and got very wasted on alcohol and other recreational drugs and that left me in a very, very bad way and I don't think I've ever really recovered from that. I was unable to sleep and so my GP put me Citalopram, working up to 40mg dose at which point I could actually sleep again. I was still a total idiot back then and continued to drink heavily and take recreational drugs during this period.

 

2012 Diazepam 10mg

 

In early 2012 I obtained a large batch of 10mg diazepam tablets - approximately 100 tablets. I started to take these on a fairly regular basis and started to get some pretty crazy stuff going on with my head. At the time I was unaware this could be related to the diazepam because I didn't know about benzo withdrawal. I knew it was addictive but didn't really understand the crazy stuff that can happen when you're withdrawing.

 

Late 2012 & early 2013 began too rapid a taper of Citalopram and experienced terrible withdrawal symptoms.

 

I was so eager to get off the drug because of the emotional blunting, which in part I blamed for the break up of my relationship at the time, that I continued the taper schedule despite the difficulty in sleeping and what I now realise to be fairly significant autonomic dysfunction:-

 

• breathing issues
• sleep issues
• problems with body temperature
  • ​extremely cold hands and feet
  • developed Raynaud's phenomenon in hands and feet
  • a feeling of being chilled to the very core during winter
• ​orthostatic intolerance causing me to almost black out every time I stood up
• experienced really high resting heart rates, 100bpm just sitting and over 150bpm just walking across the room
• electric shock sensations in head and body sometimes starting in the centre of the chest and radiating out along my nerve pathways to my toes and fingers
• heart palpitations
• neuropathic pain along nerve paths, especially in my right arm
• pain & burning sensations and numbness in fingertips and toes
• digestive problems

       

I was completely off Citalopram in April 2013 and suffered terribly with severe anxiety, sleep issues, and extreme sensitivity to pretty much anything that could disturb my nervous system - caffeine, alcohol, supplements, medicines, pretty much anything.

 

In October 2013 I really fell to pieces. I started to think that my symptoms might be indicative of some kind of terminal disease and so this exacerbated the problem further. I went back to live with my mother and stuff got really crazy. I barely slept for weeks I would jolt awake anytime I started to drift off to sleep. I felt like my body had given up the urge to breathe and that I was just stopping breathing all the time. I completely lost sensation in my hands, feet, face, mouth & throat. I couldn't walk without stumbling because I couldn't feel the soles of my feet. I couldn't feel temperature so had to get others to check food & drinks for me to make sure I didn't burn myself. I lost the ability to swallow properly and seriously thought I had MS or something.

 

Was pretty much bed bound for weeks because of orthostatic intolerance, extreme fatigue and was in a constant state of panic & anxiety crying constantly and pretty much inconsolable.

 

Doctors gave me zopiclone to sleep and then it got to the point where I couldn't sleep without zopiclone. They tried putting me on all sorts of SSRIs & tricyclics. I was given sertraline, citalopram, amitryptyline - all of which made me worse in some way, one caused an instant panic attack and the other caused severe burning sensations all over my body.

 

2013 November - Nortryptyline 25mg

 

Eventually I was given nortryptyline and my body didn't seem to reject that like it did with all the others so they steadily increased me up to 30mg. I levelled out on this and within about three months I felt a lot better again - pretty much all of the withdrawal symptoms abated.

 

I decided to drop down to 25mg because I didn't want to be on too high a dose given the problems I had getting off Citalopram.

 

During my time on nortryptyline I started doing research online into the withdrawal effects of antidepressants and that's when I discovered the wealth of information on sites like survivingantidepressants on the adverse effects of withdrawing from these drugs. I decided that when I would begin my taper from nortryptyline I would do it in a much more careful way. I had read about the recommended 10% per month reduction rate and so decided that when I felt it was time I would reduce at this precautionary rate.

 

2014 November - drop to 22.5mg Nortryptyline

2014 December - drop to 20mg Nortryptyline

 

These drops hit me quite brutally and so I waited until March 2015 before making any further reductions.

 

2015 Dropped from 20mg to 10mg in 2mg increments.

 

2015 has been hell, tons of ups and downs, plenty of sleep issues, cognitive impairment, working memory impairment, extreme lethargy, my emotions have been all over the place. My body temperature problems and numbness in the hands and feet continues to be a problem at times. I've struggled to do my job and have made the decision to hold on 10mg over the winter months and then resign from my mentally complicatied job (software development) in order to go back and live with my mother while I put my focus on doing what I need to do to get off the remaining medication next year in the calmest and safest way possible without all the responsibility I have now.

[Fresh]

That's an essay Funky ,  no wonder you had a hard time putting it together in one sitting  .

Beautifully written.

 

You may find that after a couple of months , your job seems less mentally complicated. You

won't be suffering the way you have during the past year.

Having said that , this is the time to put whatever resources you have into healing and replenishing

your fragile cns.  Nutrition is key.  Time to start researching.

 

You are correct that using cannabis , amphetamines , ecstacy and cocaine would not have been

good for your brain.  It may well be that the w/d symptoms you were having from using recreationally

from around 16 (?)  exacerbated any anxiety you were having.  And then you added your friends' 

venlafaxine.  

 

This has been a very long road.  If you want this to be your last taper ever , don't put a calendar date

on.  It will take more than a year , but that's okay.  You have access now to all the information and

support you need to help you along the way.

[JanCarol]

Hey Funky - Hello!  And welcome to SA!

 

You sure learned about this stuff the hard way (I'm a hard-way learner myself).

 

But - here's the key - you learned it!  It may take awhile, you were on the drugs for a long time, with a lot of bounces.  Your CNS has kindly told you "enough!" and you are lucky - because many people stay on the drugs and decay until they are completely non functional and diagnosed with all kinds of mysterious diseases and disorders caused by the drugs.

 

But you are now in control of it, and nobody will ever do that to you again!  Woo! 

 

Please keep us posted on your ongoing symptoms and tapers.  We want to cheer your success!

[FunkyBaboon]

Hey Fresh - yep I can see how my life choices would have likely led to a car crash of issues with my central nervous system and feel blessed to be in a place where I finally have this under control and am on the long and slow road to recovery. During the past week I have entered into a window where I feel the best I have all year (hooray!). I have been able to socialise more and catch up with a whole load of old friends that I haven't seen in ages and was not the complete and utter mess that I have been when meeting up with them on various other occasions over the past year. I can tell that my CNS is now more stabilised because I can tolerate some alcohol and small amounts of caffeine.

 

After a whole year of pretty much dropping my dose, having a week of grace, being a total mess for about 2-3 weeks, and then just about recovering and then dropping my dose again, I am taking a well deserved winter break and look forward to another 3 and half months of relative stability on this 10mg dose. I've regained my cognitive function sufficiently that I am now able to perform my duties at work with relative ease again and am relieved to find that the brain damaged state I was in a few weeks ago was not permanent. It's sometimes difficult to remind yourself that the problems are only temporary and they will get better when you're in the middle of it and you lose sight of what it was like to have a functioning brain.

 

In terms of nutrition, what would you recommend? I'm a vegan and eat a fairly healthy diet with plenty of vegetables and fruits. I have started taking Omega-3 supplements, the type that I take has both EPA & DHA (http://www.vegetology.co.uk/products/opti3) and is created from algae (which is apparently where the fish get their omega 3 from in the first place!). I currently take four capsules per day providing 600mg of EPA and 1000mg of DHA, in total providing 1670mg of Omega-3. I've noticed that my recovery took a definite upward turn when I started supplementing the Omega-3, so hats of to those on the forum that recommend Omega-3 supplements, thank you! I also experimented with a magnesium supplement (http://www.togetherhealth.co.uk/products/magnesium) but found it was far too activating for me and would leave me feeling wired and pretty anxious. I started taking a whole capsule per day, which provided 188mg of magnesium in all of the various natural forms (oxide, hydroxide, sulfate, carbonate and chloride) and then thought I might take it better if I split it up into three capsules and took it spread out through the day but I think that is still too much for my nervous system to handle. When I stopped taking magnesium supplements I felt loads better straight away. I am considering trying it again at much lower doses, say like 25mg at a time. It's also possible that my body doesn't like one of the forms of magnesium in the mix and so it might be better to try a supplement that contains a single form of magnesium.

 

Hello JanCarol - Nice to meet you! I definitely learnt the hard way and I'm pretty sure most people do unless their lucky enough to be related to or friends with a member of survivingantidepressants.org who can educate them about the dangers of taking these medications and tapering off them. I would assume most people stumble upon this site when they're already suffering sufficiently to go hunting for answers 

 

I have a friend who works at a residential home for people with mental health problems. They're all polydrugged and have been for so long that he actually believes there is no way out for them, they're completely lost to the medications and cannot function with or without them. I've spoken to him about the issues that I've experienced and he's assured me that he tries to get through to some of his patients that drugs are not the answer but they tend to shun his attempts to reach out to them and put all of their faith in their doctors who willingly prescribe more and more of these drugs to counteract the symptoms brought on by the other drugs that they're taking, just as you describe.

 

Sleep study results - I got the results of my sleep study back on Friday and I've been told that I have a diagnosis of Mild OSA (obstructive sleep apnea). Apparently I have between 8 and 9 apnea events per hour and there are other strange phenomenon going on with my sleep study data. Apparently my oxygen levels fluctuate between 90 and 98% throughout the night but the higher oxygenation levels are associated with the times where I have the clusters of apnea events and I'm less oxygenated when I'm not having the apnea episodes, which is completely counterintuitive and defies logical explanation. I also found that even though I can't go to sleep whilst on my back due to waking up with an adrenaline rush feeling like I've stopped breathing, I actually turn onto my back during sleep and apparently I'm much more rested and less agitated when in the supine position. They said there is definitely something odd going on with my sleep but they're not sure what. Due to difficulties I have been having with sleep, they're going to put me on a CPAP trial, even though they wouldn't usually recommend it for mild OSA. The CPAP machine will collect further data for them to review and it may be the case they'll want to pull me in for an overnight polysomnography in order to get some additional data on my sleep.

 

I'm hoping that the withdrawal from Nortryptyline has been contributing to my apnea episodes and that when I'm finally fully off the drug and have had sufficient time for my brain to heal (with the help of trucks of Omega-3 no doubt) then the number of apnea events I suffer from will go down and I can resume life without a CPAP machine. Maybe I'll only need it temporarily whilst I go through the final stages of withdrawal?

[KarenB]

Nutrition - Awesome that you've got some fish-oil.  Many people find that a dose of 25mg magnesium is all they need/can handle.  I take magnesium citrate, which is fairly gentle but mag.glycinate is apparently gentler still.  Otherwise you can go the super-gentle way and have a bath with epsom salts in it. 

 

Nuts and seeds are great, especially if they are soaked first.  Makes it much easier to digest and get all the goodness from them.  I make raw muesli with oats, nuts, seeds etc and soak it overnight.  I eat it with apple, raw milk and yoghurt (which I like cause the probiotics help heal the gut, which can get a bit messed up in w/d).  I'm sure there's vegan options.  Gut-healing foods are important in w/d, as are brain-healing foods and soothing foods.

 

Actually I found out lately that oats are helpful for reducing depression, which would explain why I got so addicted to them this year - I've been eating 2 big bowls of muesli a day, just craving it.

 

Soaking is good for brown rice and all grains actually (you may already know all this).  Coconut oil is beneficial too.  Just thinking over things I've read while in w/d, I've seen that some people do w/d okay on a vegan diet, and some vegans/vegetarians have found they did better once they introduced some animal protein and fats.  That will be a personal decision, but just wanted to relay that info.     

 

I also recommend no white sugar or flour, for obvious reasons . 

 

Sleep - the odds are that the 'odd thing' going on with your sleep is w/d.  It's so common.  Here's our insomnia thread.  Most people find that their sleep recovers as they recover from w/d.  I don't believe it can be permanently damaged. 

 

Congrats on having such a cool wave.  Also good to hear you will stay on that dose till you're really stable.  The self-care thread might be good for you during this time. 

 

Best wishes,

KarenB

[FunkyBaboon]

Hey Karen - I pretty much alternate between porridge and muesli. I've never tried soaking it overnight myself though, although I have had soaked muesli when I was at a yoga & meditation retreat and really did like it. I got a list of anti inflammatory foods when I attended a vegan festival so I will have to dig that out and give it a go.

 

Talking of sleep, I've had a couple of really bad nights this week and this has brought on another (let's hope mini) wave. I'm not sure whether it is to do with my recently diagnosed sleep apnea or whether it is just my racing mind stopping me from getting much needed rest. Whichever it is the days that follow are difficult I just feel absolutely exhausted and lacking in any kind of energy - it almost feels as though I haven't slept at all. Motivation and enthusiasm get completely sapped and I struggle to get the energy to do the most basic things.

 

Hopefully this is just a blip and sleep will improve.

[FunkyBaboon]

Today is definitely a struggle, finding work hard and got a constant sense that everything is too much to handle like I'm out of control.

 

I took some time out from work and went and sat in the kitchen and I had what felt like some kind of micro seizure - I momentarily (for less than a second maybe) lost my vision everything went one colour and I lost the hearing in my right ear. When my vision came back my ear started fading back in from deaf and was accompanied by a high pitched tinnitus tone. At the same time as my vision and hearing coming back online I had a brain zap that started in my brain and radiated in a wave down via the centre of my chest and then out along the nerve pathways to my finger tips and toes and I felt a mild burning sensation in the fingertips and toes at the end. That lasted like 5 seconds and then it just disappeared as if nothing ever happened.

 

I seldom get any brain zaps or anything these days since doing a much slower taper. I've had the odd one with the electrical sensations but not accompanied with vision and hearing loss like that so it's super odd to get that out of the blue like that.

[FunkyBaboon]

It's crazy really. For most people that have never had anything to do with antidepressants what I just experienced would have been thoroughly alarming and they'd probably be taking themselves down the emergency room thinking it was the sign of something pretty serious but it's got to the point where I'm like, oh well, not that stuff again. Meh. 

[FunkyBaboon]

Hey guys & girls, just checking in with a Christmas morning update.

 

Withdrawal is such a horrible roller coaster of ups and downs. The last week has been a seriously mixed bag. I've had some horrendous nights of sleep and some better but the days have been varied.

 

Cognitively I've been much better and my memory has improved but physically I seem to have gone downhill. My body temperature is all over the place, one minute really feeling the cold (sometimes it's not even that cold) and the next minute I get into a warmer environment and it's like my internal thermostat swings to the extreme opposite and I'm sweating profusely.

 

My raynauds has really been playing up in my hands too. The worst affected finger only has to touch something marginally colder and it just reacts straight away and is numb and white as a sheet.

 

I spent a few hours in the car today and was seriously tired, anxious and experiencing quite a bit of muscle tension to the point of discomfort. I mixed up 25mg of magnesium into a water bottle and that seemed to take the edge of the muscle tension and anxiety. Unfortunately magnesium has been a mixed bag for me sometimes seeming to help and other times making stuff worse. It can also affect my sleep negatively at times it seems.

 

I can never seem to pinpoint what causes a bad night sleep. Is it my anxiety level, is it that small bit of caffeine I had, am I overtired, did the magnesium affect me. Answer is usually sometimes, it's not uniform - almost unpredictable!

 

Just wish I could feel normal for Xmas

 

I seem to have passed some threshold in my dose reductions and I'm suffering much more than on any other drop and for longer too. The good window I had a week or so ago appears to have disappeared again.

 

Happy Christmas to you all! Going to try and push all this to the back of my mind for one day....

 

Night from an exhausted, nauseous and somewhat anxious funky....

[Sarabera]

Hi Funky, another tricyclic victim here (we are few and far between these days, so old school)! I'm been drugged for the last 34 years, 95% tricyclics. Sorry to hear that tapering is not going so well for you. Please be sure and be careful with your diet--it is VERY hard to be vegan and get all the things your body needs. Do you eat eggs? they are really an excellent food. Be sure and get lots of healthy fats--your brain and nerves are made primarily of fat. I used to be a vegetarian, but didn't eat well enough and wasn't healthy. Now I'm pretty much Primal.

 

I know what you mean about never knowing how your sleep is going to be--for me it could be anywhere from zero hours (three nights ago) to 9 or 10 when I've gotten very behind. I've tried everything in the book to improve my sleep and it is still a work in progress, very frustrating! Do you keep a log? BTW--I do think you write very well.

Sarah

[FunkyBaboon]

Hey Sarah, nice to meet you!

 

Once I'm asleep everything is much easier. If I wake up then I find it easy enough to go back to sleep and I won't want to get up, each time it can feel as though I haven't actually slept yet.

 

Right now I just can't relax enough to get to sleep. I've tried progressive muscle relaxation, some breathing meditation but all efforts seem futile because my mind is racing and every time I just about drop off to sleep I get an adrenaline jolt like my body is preventing me from going to sleep because it sees sleep as a danger like I'm going to die if I surrender to it. That may sound dramatic but that's really what it feels like is going on!

 

I've not tried keeping a sleep diary maybe that's something I should do. As u lie here my breathing is very slow and shallow and my resting heart rate is 41 beats per minute. It seriously feels like my body isn't even trying... Combine that with my recent sleep apnea diagnosis and I get scared that one day I won't wake up. Maybe my body/mind is scared of this too hence the adrenaline jolts ????

 

It's Christmas day today and the longer I lay here awake the more I have images of me being super lethargic and emotionally flat around family later today, which isn't helping...

 

I know what you mean about having a bad night or two and then being so tired that you have to sleep to catch up. I feel like I'm constantly in that cycle.

 

How are you getting on generally with withdrawal from tricyclics? Which were you on?

 

I don't think using my phone is going to help my sleep but I don't know what else to do when I can't get to sleep ☺

 

Need sleep!!

 

Cheers

[Songbird]

Hi FB, good to see you here.  It looks like you've been doing 2mg drops each time, which means your percentage drop has increased each time, which could make w/d problems worse with each drop.  A good long hold to let things settle is a good idea.

 

I'm not surprised by the sleep apnea - I read somewhere that serotonin is involved in keeping the throat open during sleep, and I had a bad experience during my w/d 'crash' of waking up in a panic with my throat stuck closed and unable to breathe.  There have been other members who've reported sleep apnea issues.  It will be interesting to see what the CPAP does for you.  Your comment "every time I just about drop off to sleep I get an adrenaline jolt like my body is preventing me from going to sleep because it sees sleep as a danger" reminds me of some theories Alto wrote about years ago, about how the brain triggers an alert when it thinks it is too relaxed - I can't remember now how she put it, but the jolting awake is very common in w/d.  I recommend cutting out caffeine and alcohol while tapering, or at least until you're a lot more stable.  They could be a contributing factor in your sleep (and possibly other) issues.

 

Re the magnesium - there are many different types, and people can respond differently to them, so you may want to try some others to see if you can find one that works better for you, e.g. magnesium citrate, magnesium glycinate, magnesium orotate, etc.  You might also need to use much smaller doses than what is considered 'normal'.  Reactions to supplements are very individual - I gave up omega3 supplements as they made me feel worse, but tolerate magnesium okay.  It's all rather trial and error.

 

Anyway, sending you best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.

[Fresh]

Happy Christmas Funky.

Try not to worry too much about not sleeping - it's totally normal for where you're at and it will resolve by itself

as you stabilize.  In the meantime , just allow your body to rest as much as you can.  The more focus you put on

not sleeping the more anxiety it generates.

 

With regard to nutrition , I've incorporated lots of coconut oil - in coffee and cooking , coconut macaroons (google

Violet's coconut macaroons , so easy and delish) , and with Himalayan salts in home-made toothepaste.  Part of

keeping bad bacteria out of our systems can be dealt with by good oral hygiene , so it's a good place to start.

 

I also have a regular supply of toasted seeds (pepitas , flax , sesame , sunflower , toast them separately in a dry

fry pan) and nuts , good for sprinkling on salads , eating by the spoonful or great with Greek youghurt.

Apart from that , it's all about a range of vegies.  

 

The adrenaline jolts that come as you finally drift off are cortisol spikes , I'm sure there's a thread on here somewhere.

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi FB, To save you searching, here are the links: 

 

waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes/

magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

CC

[Sarabera]

Hi Funky, Merry Christmas! Hope your day went well. I totally know what you mean about the "sleep zaps" and racing heartbeats/palpitations. I have had that now and then, and it drives me nuts. (I think menopause has not been helpful with that issue, throw in some hot flashes along with the zaps). I have a huge pile of books on my bed (fortunately my husband is understanding, and we have separate bedrooms). If for any reason I can't sleep, I turn on the light (with blue-blocker bulb to keep from waking) and read something from the pile until I get sleepy again. Trying really hard not to fret about not sleeping, even if I know I will probably feel like crap the next day.

 

I'm on amitryptiline (Elavil), and just getting ready to start tapering again. I've tried many times to jump off, but always reinstated almost immediately. Early this summer I got out about 2 weeks and then started feeling really sick. That's when I first realized that this was going to be much more difficult than I had thought.

Sarah

[Africa]

Hi Funky

 

I have just found your introductory post. I think you're amazing to have come such a long way!

 

Thank you

 

Africa

[FunkyBaboon]

I think it's just about time for an update because it has been a long while since I posted one.

 

It has been 5 months since I dropped from 12mg to 10mg of Nortryptyline and I've been on that consistent dose ever since. The drop was far too big and I know not to repeat that same mistake again.

 

The first couple of months were terrible. I was affected physically, emotionally and cognitively. I had lots of sleep issues and was unable to work for two or three weeks. Even upon returning to work I was struggling awfully.

 

During the last three months, for the most part, my cognition and memory have been much improved. There have been some good weeks where I've felt much better and there have been some terrible weeks where I feel like I'm back to square 1 again. It certainly seemed as though the my windows and waves were trending toward longer windows and shorter waves. I was going to the gym two or three times a week, eating healthily and at times starting to feel much more positive about my recovery. 

 

Unfortuantely, about three or four weeks ago I had a really stressful couple of days and it felt like something snapped. I lost the ability to get restful sleep and then I started to deteriorate quite quickly. I went many days with just a few hours of poor quality, completely unrefreshing sleep and I started to experience a resurgence of the severity of some of my more long standing withdrawal symptoms - body temperature problems,  waking up with numb hands, cognition problems, memory problems, insufferable exhaustion.

 

It seems for me that the severity of my withdrawal experience is very closely tied to the quality of the sleep that I get. As soon as my sleep deteriorates, my symptoms come back with a vengeance. 

 

Last year I made the decision to leave my job in the city so that I could move back in with family in the countryside in order to focus on the remainder of my taper in a serene and supportive environment. Due to the proximity to my end date my employer has signed me off sick for the remainder of my time with them. Given how much I have been struggling and with everything I need to do to organise a move across the country, I am grateful this happened.

 

The last couple of days have been much better than those last week but as usual I am unsure as to what caused the change. My sister came over on Sunday and helped me get organised for the move, something that I'm traditionally not very good at so it might be that I am feeling a bit more relaxed now that I'm a bit more organised for the move. I also started taking a small amount magnesium the last couple of nights to see if that would improve my sleep. Although I'm not sleeping very much it seems as though the quality of my sleep did improve in that I feel more rested and my mind is clearer.

 

I think my stress tolerance is very low at the moment and it seems the smallest difficult event can have a negative impact on my well-being. I am hoping that once I get to the countryside, the environment will be conducive to relaxation and healing.

 

As I sit here now, my hands and feet are absolutely freezing and I feel chilled to the bone, I feel nauseous, my arms and legs are aching and I've got some neuropathic pain, my face feels like it has pins and needles almost like a spider is crawling over it. I only got three hours sleep last night so that might have something to do with it. I do get scared because these are the kinds of symptoms I were experiencing at my worst when I crashed 6 months out from my Citalopram cessation. I'm trying very hard to resist falling into despair thinking that my body is permanently broken and it'll never get better.

 

Really in need of some supportive words to give me some hope that I can still recover from this.

 

I'm supposed to be continuing with my taper when I get to the countryside but as I feel right now I can't imagine anything worse. I'm really hoping I see some improvement soon....

[Ali4]

Don't worry funky, it will get better, this is just a bump and time heals all. Hoping you feel better soon. Ali.

[FunkyBaboon]

Hi Ali, thanks for your words 

 

The reason I'm feeling worried today is because I have a resurgence of ice cold but sweaty feet and this is something I had really bad back in late 2013 when I had my crash after Citalopram withdrawal and haven't experienced since, until now. Obviously, given that late 2013 was such an emotionally terrifying time for me these symptoms have bought some of those emotions flooding back. A bit like when you hear an old song and it brings emotions with it.

 

I started symptom searching online and started finding stuff about Lupus again and I feel like I'm going to go down the road of health anxiety again unless I stop it in its tracks. I can already feel that pitted feeling in my stomach like somethings wrong and I don't feel safe or comforted by anything around me. Even just thinking of watching TV I feel as though I'll be sat there staring at the pictures on the screen with my mind whizzing through all of the possible causes of my issues and yearning to symptom search online the whole time. 

 

I got a new batch of my tablets about 10 days ago and I noticed they were a different generic brand. We don't really get a choice here in the UK it's more that we get what we're given and it's always some generic brand, they probably just change to the cheapest whenever one becomes available. So I'm wondering if that could have had some effect on me...

[Ali4]

I know how you feel about the health anxiety I get it too, BAD, I stay off the net in regards to symptoms, cause Google tells me I'm dying of a disease of some sort, just our minds playing tricks, try your best not too search your syptoms, maybe come on here talk to me or others for reassurance. Can I ask, when you came off cit, did you get bizarre head symptoms? Like numbness, tingling, and pressure behind eyes? Chat soon Ali..... P.s WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS FUNKY

[FunkyBaboon]

Bizarre head symptoms...

 

I lost the sensation in the skin on my face for a while. I couldn't feel anything, I could hold a hot cup to my face and could not have told you if it was hot or not. The same applied to the inside of my mouth, my throat, my hands and my feet, couldn't feel anything or taste anything. This was pretty severe but only lasted for a couple of days though and I can't tell you whether that was withdrawal or whether it was from having next to zero sleep for days on end combined with being in a total state of panic. Most likely a combination of all three.

 

At times I also had pins and needles and the sensation of a spider crawling on my face. I also used to get strange sensations where I'd feel like an air bubble would form in my brain and then pop followed with some electrical waves running out through my nerve pathways toward my fingers and toes. I guess I did used to feel like there was pressure in behind my eyes at times. To be honest Ali, there was so much going on in my head that it's difficult to list it all. I frequently had my ears popping on me and going deaf temporarily, I had strange pressure build ups in my sinuses, muscle spasms in my face and head accompanied with pain. It was all pretty nasty...

[Ali4]

OMG that is everything I have going on, the sinuses as well, It makes me feel better to here that someone else has experienced the same thing, the I'm going crazy, just lightened a little.

[FunkyBaboon]

It's brilliant that just knowing your not alone has offered you some relief!! I'm really glad to have done that for you. To be honest, my session on here tonight communicating with fellow sufferers has really helped bring my anxiety levels down from where they were at earlier.... I can tell you it has worked both ways!

[Ali4]

That is great!!! No more googling symptoms! pm anytime you want to chat.

[FunkyBaboon]

I promise not to Google my symptoms ☺

 

Phoned my mother just now and had a horrible crying fit on the phone. I think the anxiety of today with all the symptoms and having only had three hours sleep last night just took its toll on me.

 

I was crying and trying to explain how much I am suffering today and in between when going to take breaths I felt like somebody was sitting on my chest like I couldn't breathe. Almost as though I was being smothered. My whole body was rigid with tension every muscle locked tight and I think that was causing the suffocation sensation.

 

I decided to take 1mg of diazepam from my emergency supply box. I hardly ever do that as I know it's playing with fire but I just need to be relaxed enough to sleep tonight otherwise I'm going to continue to go downhill with the the sleep deprivation.

 

Going to take up daily yoga practice once I'm down in the countryside but haven't found the time the past few days because of how much I've had to do for the house move. I think it's all just got too much with everything I feel I've got to do.

 

Hoping for some rest tonight. I'll check in tomorrow..

[FunkyBaboon]

Oh and also going to call the pharmacy in the morning and find out why they switched suppliers and which brand they used to sell because I want to reinstate that due to potential I'm suffering problems with the brand switch.

[Altostrata]

Are you still taking 10mg? Did you get a round of new symptoms recently?

[FunkyBaboon]

Hey Alto,

 

Yep still on the 10mg, just a different tablet manufacturer than previously. Started new tablets about 10 days ago. Went through a stressful couple of days about three weeks ago and sleep has been sporadic and largely unrefreshing ever since.

 

It seems when my sleep goes downhill my physical symptoms intensify. I've been experiencing some of the same symptoms I experienced during my Citalopram crash a couple of years ago. Body temperature problems, really chilled to the bone, very sensitive to raynauds attacks, cold sweats and some orthostatic intolerance / heart racing.

 

Not setting any alarms for tomorrow, will get up when I get up....

[FunkyBaboon]

Every time I try and fall asleep I get an adrenaline jolt accompanied by an electrical pins needles feeling in my fingertips.

 

Why won't my mind let me sleep? And why is this happening now 5 months out from my last dose reduction?

[FunkyBaboon]

I eventually managed to get to sleep and I've slept for about 9 hours on and off. Each time when I woke up my hands were numb and tingling to some degree.

 

At least I slept more than I did the night before, but I've got to say my symptoms are concerning me again because this is what happened when I first developed raynauds and it concerns me that this could signify that my raynauds is about to get worse...