success ☼ Happy2Heal: Hope I'm doing this right

[Happy2Heal]

That is great! Sleep is best medicine as they say .

 

I am doing few changes with dosage but hanging in there . I started listening to meditation again and journalizing to help cope with anxiety and last night did some yoga for a few minutes . Every time I get to do yoga I get so mad at myself for not doing it more often bc it really does make me feel good .

 

oh glad to hear you've got some things in place to help you out! I missed my yoga class for two weeks, I was at the ER for one week, and I forget why I missed last week.

I also feel better on days that I've been able to get out and do some walking, and I sleep better too on those days. It's just hard in NH this time of year with snow and ice and crap. :/

 

I hope things settle down for you!

[Happy2Heal]

Don't beat yourself up by staying on the meds for a bit longer. It is what takes for eventually win the war!

 

I'm in a critical situation getting severe reactions to the drug, seems no options but jumping off the cliff once and all.

 

thanks Lex

so sorry to hear you're still struggling. I was so hoping things were finally going better for you

(((hugs)))

[Happy2Heal]

Have you tried "rescue" doses less than 2.5 mg Zyprexa? If so, what happened?

 

 

Hi Scallywag, I need to update my signature again.

because getting any refills on this Rx are iffy, I tried to take as little as possible. I took the full 2.5 (but in divided doses, 1/4 the first time and 3/4 of it about 4 hrs later) the first day, and then only half a dose for  3 days.

I was feeling SO much better, I decided to stop taking it, and didn't take any for 6 days.

Then I found my thoughts going rapidly back to a horrible dark place again, so I took a full dose Sunday night. it helped but I still had some residual dark/intrusive thoughts so I took another full dose last night.

 

I just got a call that my appt for today was cancelled due to the weather but the dr(actually a psychiatric nurse practitioner)  is calling in an Rx to cover me til I can see her on the 3rd.

 

I will see how today goes before I decide if I can do just a half dose tonight.

the lexapro dose is the same, no change there, but I am wondering if maybe I should updose a bit?

 

they are calling this depression, but we all know better.

I can't say that these symptoms are 100% withdrawal because, and please everyone make note of this: I have had this kind of thing happen in the past, and I was NOT on any meds nor going off any meds. It's very hard to describe what happens, but it's as if my brain, my thoughts, have been taken over and nothing I do can bring them back into line, believe me, I've tried. And the only thing that has brought things back to normal, was a short course of an anti psychotic.

 

I don't like these drugs any more than anyone else does but you have to allow the possibility that they do help some ppl in some situations, and this is definitely one of those situations and I am def one of those ppl.

I can't stress enough how sure I am that I would not be here, if I hadn't gotten on the zyprexa.

 

I have never needed to stay on it for very long, and I never noticed any withdrawal from it; I hope I am that lucky this time.

[Happy2Heal]

 

You haven't been used to digesting meat, so I would start slow - with eggs, gradually adding in fish, until you are having at least eggs or fish on most days.  If you can, gradually add in a serving of meat a week.  You don't have to eat meat every day, and you don't need huge servings, just a palm-sized serving will help you.   There will be some adjustment time, and you may need to take a digestive enzyme to help you break down the proteins, since it has been so long since you ate meat.

 

 

 

Maybe, when you are fully healed, you can go back to the plant-based diet you love.  But it is my hope that - instead of asking for Zyprexa (which you are now out of) you will consider this simpler solution, to see if it can help you.

 

I have some other, more fun notes that I will post from - I love your sense of humor, your optimism, and your will to be free.  You have helped so many here on SA with your compassion and persistence in the face of symptoms.

 

I promise I won't nag, well.  I may continue to talk about EFA's but I won't go into the "vegetarian vs. omnivorous" again.

 

 

 

 

Hi JanCarol,

thank you so much for stopping by and for all the info you've shared.

I am not at this time a strict vegan, not even close. Since last Sept, early Oct I have been eating some meat almost every week, for one thing, my appetite was so poor, I knew I was not able to get all the nutrients I need from the meager amnt of food I was able to eat. I have had burgers a couple of times, as well as maybe 3 meatball subs. I've eaten eggs and I eat tuna and other fish, in fact, lately, I've been eating a lot more fish.

I may not be eating the right ones (apparently I should be eating more salmon..? I get what's been on sale, which has been cod and haddock and tilapia)

I know from research that I did in the past, that fish oil is good for depression, I also recall that you need to take a  LOT of it, and that it does not work right away, you don't see results for a month or two

 

I am open to the idea of taking fish oil but worry about it being rancid, and I worry about it being activating, as it has been for some people.

 

One of the things that I think have helped me, is changing to the mostly plant based diet and cutting out sugar and most processed foods.

I feel like I have detoxified it enough for it to "tell me" what it needs and lately I have been craving fish and the occasional meatball etc. I had some shrimp lately, too.

 

since the fish oil takes time to work I am going to continue to use the zyprexa but will try to get by on as little of it as possible.

 

I would prefer to get the fish oil directly from fish but don't know how much I'd need to eat nor which kinds, to have the most benefit.

I will have to look into that.

 

 

[nz11]

Wow Jancarol thanks for posting that very interesting and informative info about diet.

Maybe that should be a sticky somewhere.

Just cant get over the term 'wild caught fish'

[scallywag]

the Perfect Health Diet folks did a lot of research on eating fish for the Omega 3 acids.  Here's a link to the page where they discuss this and the "money" quote:

 

Quote

We recommend eating about 1 pound per week of omega-3 rich marine fish, like salmon, sardines, or herring, but taking no omega-3 supplements. This amount is sufficient to optimize the tissue omega-6 to omega-3 ratio for cardiovascular health, and is not so great as to raise great risks of toxicity.

Perfect Health Diet on Omega 3 fatty acids

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

On 1/25/2017 at 7:15 AM, scallywag said:

the Perfect Health Diet folks did a lot of research on eating fish for the Omega 3 acids.  Here's a link to the page where they discuss this and the "money" quote:

 

Quote

We recommend eating about 1 pound per week of omega-3 rich marine fish, like salmon, sardines, or herring, but taking no omega-3 supplements. This amount is sufficient to optimize the tissue omega-6 to omega-3 ratio for cardiovascular health, and is not so great as to raise great risks of toxicity.

Perfect Health Diet on Omega 3 fatty acids

 

 

 

thanks scallywag

 

hmm well, I guess I just need to change which fish I am eating, then?

tuna is not good for omega-3?

 

I've been having tuna about 4 times a week (one small can each time) and at least a half pound of either cod or haddock or tilapia, usually steamed or in a chowder.

I made a big chowder just a week ago with over a pound of fish in it and finished that off in two days.

 

When I'm out tomorrow, I'll pick up a couple of cans of salmon, as it's a lot cheaper than fresh salmon. I don't like oysters or sardines or anchovies, but I think I'd probably like herring, I don't know if I've ever seen it for sale, I'll have to check.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

 

and the "money" quote

Scallywag, what does this mean......?

 

 

[Lakelander82]

Cod, Mackerel, herring, Sardines, Pollock, Haddock etc are all wild caught fish and are some of the best fish you can eat. Salmon can be either wild caught but the vast majority of what you see in the shops is farmed and is terrible for you - the fish are often farmed in small pens where they swim round in each other's filth and are riddled with lice and pesticides. Wild caught Salmon is tough to get and it is an acquired taste as it tends to be quite strong in flavour. The rule of thumb is if its wild caught its good to go, if its farmed, avoid it like the plague. Tins of Wild salmon are good and fairly inexpensive compared to the fresh stuff. Avoid Tuna as its high in Mercury.

The west coast of Ireland on the Atlantic produces some of the best seafood in the world, especially the oysters and prawns which are sold to all the top restaurants.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[scallywag]

In this instance, "money quote" = the part that answers your question

[Happy2Heal]

In this instance, "money quote" = the part that answers your question

oh ok, LOL

thank you

I've never heard that expression before

[JanCarol]

Thank you for your open mind!

 

Whew!  I am breathing a huge sigh of relief!

 

I was terrified that you would reflexively shut out the information, even though I worked pretty hard to get it to you.  Like I said - diet is like religion.

 

The "money quote" from Perfect Health is one I would disagree with for us - because the Perfect Health people are not dealing with the stress caused by years of antidepressants and psych drugs.  They are not dealing with those of us who are sensitive to emotional states, mental shifts, and cognitive problems.  The psych drugs are very similar to a TBI, and if you read the TBI article I sent you, they were using 40-60,000 IU of fish oil to promote healing in the case of TBI.  While I never recommend those high doses, I do think that it is an amazingly helpful thing.

 

I do agree with the types of fish on PerfectHealth - here's the rule:  coldwater fish = fatty fish.  Be careful with tinned fish for 2 reasons:  1.  BPA in tins (a plastic coating that leeches into the food.  They haven't figured a way around this yet), and 2.  They pack the fish in inflammatory vegetable oils, like canola.  You can get "water packed" or "olive oil."

 

Farmed vs. wild caught = to be honest, if all humans ate wild caught fish, the seas would be empty.  There are too many of us for this to be ecologically sustainable (and I know that's a passionate concern of yours).  Sadly, fish farming conditions are frequently akin to factory farms, as Lakelander was saying.  But in Consumer Labs they had a discussion of this, and there were pros and cons for each.  First, there was the claim that farmed fish ate grains, and were not as high in Omega 3's (like the difference between grass fed beef and grain fed beef - the Omega 3's come from the animal's food).  BUT the farmed fish were frequently supplemented with fish oil (lol the article said "don't ask!") and the measures they had of Omega 3's were comparable to wild caught fish.  These numbers are slipping, as it is cheaper to feed the animals on grain, but saying that "farmed" fish had low Omega3's is incorrect.  Additionally, the farmed fish will be lower in the heavy metals, because they are brought to market more quickly.

 

Heavy metals, mercury, is a concern.  Sardines are the best - as they are lower on the food chain.  The higher you get on the food chain - like the big tuna and mackerel - the more pollution you take in.  I wish I loved sardines, they are the best way to get Omega3's with the least amount of fuss - and they are inexpensive too (again, watch for "packed in vegetable oil") with them.

 

from:  http://www.naturalhealth365.com/avoid-heavy-metals-seafood-1117.html/

Quote

If you choose to eat tuna, Albacore tuna caught in the western U.S. and Canadian waters show the least amount of mercury. These fish are generally younger and have had less time to build up toxins.

 

 

You wrote:

Quote

I know from research that I did in the past, that fish oil is good for depression, I also recall that you need to take a  LOT of it, and that it does not work right away, you don't see results for a month or two

 

I am open to the idea of taking fish oil but worry about it being rancid, and I worry about it being activating, as it has been for some people.

 

One of the things that I think have helped me, is changing to the mostly plant based diet and cutting out sugar and most processed foods.
I feel like I have detoxified it enough for it to "tell me" what it needs and lately I have been craving fish and the occasional meatball etc. I had some shrimp lately, too.

 

since the fish oil takes time to work I am going to continue to use the zyprexa but will try to get by on as little of it as possible.

 

I would prefer to get the fish oil directly from fish but don't know how much I'd need to eat nor which kinds, to have the most benefit.

I will have to look into that.

 

This is good news.   You are so right about the elimination of processed foods!  They are sooo tempting though!  My hubby is so attracted to "throw outs" and "specials," that he comes home with some atrocious processed foods.  They're convenient, easy to make, and scary as heck - and that's in Australia, where GMO's (which are inflammatory) must be labeled.  When I was in the US, and I realized how much corn, soy, had "pro-herbicide" GMO modification - and that all dairy was hormonally produced - I was terrified to buy any food!  

I had shrimp (prawns) last night, too!  I feel like they (as well as eggs) go almost directly to my brain and help it when it is foggy or spiky.

 

 You've found you don't need meat every day.  I'm still concerned that you feel like your brain "checks out" or is "taken over" unless you take the zyprexa - this still sounds to me like nutrition.  

 

Fish oil does not always take as long as 2 months to work.  I have seen good results in as little as 2.

 

To avoid rancid oils, check the dates of manufacture and buy them fresh.  Do not buy oils which are "flavored," as flavorings are added to cover rancid oils.  The ones I have seen have been vanilla (darn, I liked that one, too, it was like eating a warm bun!), orange, and lemon, to cut through the rancid oils.  You can avoid rancid oils entirely if you buy the ethyl ester version, but they are more expensive, and you'd have to check analysis to find out which ones are ethyl ester.  In Australia, all fish oil is natural triglycerides (by law), unless you get a prescription for the fancy stuff.

 

Just like anything in your kitchen, if you open the bottle and it stinks, throw it out, don't take it.  Be aware of dates (mfg / expiry - the companies are getting tricky by printing mfg instead of expiry, and how long is it good for?).  The "rancid oil" scare is easily avoided.  I only buy cheap natural triglycerides, and I've gotten maybe one bad bottle in the 20 years I've taken them.  Trader Joe's has the cheapest, and one of the best fish oils available (but I don't know if you have access to Trader Joe's).

 

To avoid activation, start slowly and build up.  Maybe get a liquid fish oil first time around (note:  they are always flavored), so you can take smaller amounts, and build up to 1 capsule per day.  Or maybe start with krill capsules, which come in smaller dose (but more expensive).   Gradually add capsules, until you are at a more smooth running amount.

 

I have found that in a state of nervous system healing - psych drugs are very similar to TBI - that fish oil is the basics, and eating fish is a bonus.  I'm thrilled that you are eating fish, so I'm less concerned that your brain is as brittle as I was thinking before.  I was really frightened, when I made that post, because of my experience, and the symptoms you are complaining of.

 

I'm still concerned - so I'm wondering about 2 other factors:  gluten (binds and gums up the system, especially wheat), and blood sugar.  Many people here have found (I was resistant to this one - my Mama raised me on "healthy," whole grain bread, how could it be hurting me?) that eliminating wheat (at the least) and gluten (more restrictive) helps clear up a lot of mood issues.  What I've learned since quitting is that these grains can affect your thyroid performance, as well.

 

Just a thought:  can you add nuts to your diet?  Just one small serve of nuts per day (not peanuts, but tree nuts) can be very brain nourishing - the fats, as well as the minerals, are really good for you.

 

Your "dissociative" states may just be the daytime version of that nasty old insomnia.  You can only go for so long without sleep before the pink elephant is in the room, commanding your attention.

 

If this is the case, then you may need to consider a SAD lamp to help with your insomnia and depression.  I am lucky, I live in a place where the sun is shining brightly most every day.  But if I still lived in Indiana, I would have to consider a SAD lamp.  Now, if you are having insomnia, adding a light might seem counterintuitive - but it's when you add the light that is important.  And how much.  There's an SA discussion here:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1470-light-boxes-for-depression-and-sleep-disorders/

 

I've found that I will get a drowse about 12 hours after exposure.  So if I were to get my light at 9 am, I would get tired at 9 pm.  

 

The flip side of this is dark therapy.  http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/dark-therapy/  Just 3 days of dark therapy will help you sleep better.  It may not fix w/d insomnia, but "better" is better!

Heck, this post is too long again!  I'll move on, and come back...

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[JanCarol]

Hey!

 

This segues into another concern for you, which is the TV.  

 

My heart goes out to you, when I hear you are living alone, with the TV for company.  I'm in awe of your fortitude in solitude.

 

Really.

 

I remember dating a man in the 80's, and he left the TV on, in the bedroom, all the time.  Back then, in the 80's, the TV was more innocuous than it is now.  They have designed the TV to flash or sound or shift in sequence to keep your brain in a certain receptive alert state.  This happens whether you have the sound on or not.  Leaving the TV on for company, is akin to inviting all the manipulators into your brain and letting them tweak the firing of it.

 

I love TV.  But I like to be in control of it, not the other way around.  And with neuromarketing dictating how a show is presented, your brain has little or no choice to comply.  If TV says "fire neurons," they fire.  

 

I know - my Mom said this, too - you say, "it's in the other room, I'm not listening or watching, it's just on for company."  And maybe that is so.  But the thing about TV is that, unlike music (I'll demonstrate in a moment), you cannot choose what neurons it is firing.  Constant TV is not good for mental health, and it is definitely not good for insomnia.  It retains your brain in this alert, receptive state - and it is very difficult to switch.

 

Our brains are designed for 4 major states, 3 of which are involved in sleep.  Beta = active awareness, Alpha = relaxed awareness (the TV slots in here, with spikes of Beta to keep you watching), Theta = dreaming, creating, problem solving, Delta = full sleep.

 

If you are constantly in Beta-Alpha, like the TV wants you to be, you are not passing into Theta and Delta.

 

Alpha is an awesome introductory state, and I'm betting that the meditation tapes you have been listening to dwell primarily in alpha.  For a normal human (as in, no withdrawal), inducing alpha is enough that the brain switches off to sleep.  Most meditations and meditation music sit here.

 

Theta is not usually comfortable to waking awareness - it is faster, but it is what reaches the deep creative corners of our minds.

 

Delta is deep, relaxing sleep

(that one is 8 hours, you can play it all night!)

 

Now, to get back to this - the TV keeps you from these deeper states.  You were getting there when you were interested in your meditation, but you said you are bored with them now.

 

Meditation helps keep your brain flexible, enables you do dip into deeper states and flexes this capacity like a muscle - the more you do it, the better you get at it.  The advantage to passive guided meditations (that people talk you through) is that you don't have to think, you just follow along with your mind and your breath.

 

I would challenge you to start with just 5 minutes of breathing, mindfulness meditation.  By now, you know the drill.  Sit comfortably, and breathe.  Focus on your breath by focusing on the temperature of the inhale / exhale, the rhythm of the inhale / exhale, the part you are breathing into - the nostrils, the sinuses, the throat, the heart, the feet, your left buttock, wherever!   When you have thoughts, call them "thoughts" and return to breathing.  When you have feelings, call them "feelings," and return to breathing.  Set a timer, and just start with 5 minutes.  Build up to 10.  When you are doing 10 minutes a day of this type of meditation, you will start to build a "bank," upon which you can draw in times of need.  20 minutes is the ideal.

 

But what to do for "company?"  That's a hard one.  Can you listen to radio?  It is less demanding on your brain waves than the TV.  I know you talked about getting audio books - but you said the ones at the Senior Center were lame.  Do you have access to a library?  There are often audio books there.  Also, if you are anywhere near a Cracker Barrel, they have a cheap "renting" of audiobooks for truck drivers and travellers.  You pick up at any Cracker Barrel, and return to any Cracker Barrel.  I think you pay something like $4-5 a book, with a little credit for each book that you return.

 

Then there's YouTube and podcasts.  You can pick an area of interest and podcast until the cows go out for another day! You can get university education by podcast, learn another language, or just listen to fiction or stories.

 

For light - you can pick up a cheap kids toy that projects stars onto your ceiling, or rainbows (I had a rainbow one in Indiana, it was awesome).  Just be aware that many of them are blue light, which might hamper sleep.  There is reference to 'sunset lamps' in the SA light box thread, that projects red, fading to dark, to help induce sleep.  Many people like the pink salt lamps - and they help purify your air, too. (but they are less interesting than a projector).

 

The advantage of a projector (even a blue light one, because TV has even more blue light than a projector would) - is that the rhythm of the shifts and pulses would be more relaxing, more alpha-theta brain waves, than the TV, which is designed to keep you engaged with it.

 

Or maybe you can get a beautiful changing night light, or night light projectors, that give you something to focus on when you feel alone.

 

I know it is a challenge, like saying goodbye to a friend, to turn the TV off.  But it is my hope that we can get your brain to settle down and sleep, and the TV may be a huge barrier to that - not just because of the blue light, but because of the neuromarketing entrainment.  

 

My next post will be a lot more fun, talking about cats and stuff....

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[JanCarol]

Hey!

 

Fully half of the notes I took on your thread were notes of delight and enjoyment of how upbeat, clever, and fun-to-be-with I imagine you are.

 

My particular bug-bear is that I am so slow, that by the time I've sifted through your thread, I can no longer participate in the jokes - while they are happening....

 

So I can't resist summing them up now.  Just to acknowledge the journey you've been on, and your positive response to your struggles.

 

You wrote:

Quote

there are a lot of abbreviations that I don't understand, is there a post somewhere that explains them?

 

OMG yes! (but no, we don't have it yet!)  I struggle with all the acronyms and abbreviations sometimes.  Some of them are just shorthand for the way people type on a phone or tablet, but some of them are necessary uses and are the "jargon" of the site.  NSAIDs, SSRI's, SNRI's, PPI's, ACE's, SI, CSA's, etc...

 

Then there's the internetese ones:  OMG, YMMV, YOLO, etc....

 

This is a brilliant suggestion, I will start collecting a list and propose that we put it up somewhere that people who haven't been using these terms for years - can feel more included.

 

Often when I see a highly abbreviated post, I wonder - are people trying to be cryptic?  I feel a little left out, and confused.  Part of it may come from my hearing impairment - it's like people are whispering around me, and I don't know what is going on!

 

Ages ago, you mentioned:

Quote

I'm a bit paranoid about putting my meds in my signature, I'm sure my doc does not have the Time, let alone the interest!! to look into a forum like this but just the fear of her finding out that I'm not "following orders" makes me nervous

 

I just wish to reassure you that your location is listed in the USA, your name is not your own, it would take a heckuva lot of research to narrow it down to you.  If you just look on the site for people on lexapro and blood pressure drugs - well - that's a lot of people.  If you look on the site for people on lexapro and blood pressure drugs in the USA, that narrows it a bit (but not a whole lot).

 

I reckon by now you are used to it here, and feel safe, as you've been posting freely about what is going on with you.

 

BTW - what did you decide to do about the verapamil?  As Alto suggested, it would be better to reduce your dose and take the same dose daily than it is to skip a dose....

 

You wrote:

Quote

 

hahahah Five cats, well you know what they say, cats are like potato chips, you can't have just one. 😉

 

Indeed!  I'd love to have a herd of cats.  A fleet of cats.  A pride of cats.  Sure, I'm a sport for being slave to 5 beings instead of one!

 

Except that - my grrl  is extremely possessive and territorial.  She was, sadly, taught that as a kitten, from one of the old grrl cats we still had.  Next time, though, we will have a bucket o'kittens! 

 

Somewhere, you wrote:

Quote

I wish there was a veggie that tasted as good as a donut lol

 

 

Oh, my yes!  More than LOL, bring it on!  

 

What is it about donuts and fresh wheaty bread that hurts so good?

 

You write about doctors:

Quote

oh my we must have similar doctors!! even when they don't come right out and say it, as yours did, they imply that you should not complain unless you are dying.

well, they would be out of a job fast if all of their pts were dying, now wouldn't they?

 

It is my understanding in China that you pay your doctor when you are well.  If you are sick, it's his fault, and he doesn't get to bill you for treatment then.  At least, that is what 2 of my TCM acupuncturists have told me (and one has been to China for internship)

 

That would be a much better model than the: OMG I'm sick!  Spend a fortune to patch me up again!  The doctors here are not rewarded for our wellness. 

 

Quote

have even been contemplating going a bit into debt to get a massage.

 

Instead of debt, have you contemplated bartering?  

 

I have bartered accounting services, filed tax returns, painted kitchens, traded "readings," for a massage.

 

I'm working out a barter with my yoga teacher - she wants me to drum for her, and I want to do a "Rock 'n' Roll Yoga" session - where I pick the music and it's not all fluffy NewAge music, but driving, transformational, emotional music for me - and have a one-on-one session with her.

 

Other possibilities might be if you can make yummy treats or cook meals in exchange for a massage.

 

Much better than going into debt!  Our society could use more barter - it feels much more honest than just trading numbers on paper with credit cards and check books.

 

I have a note here that I'm not sure what the context was, but I understand it, and I hope you do too:

 

I wrote:  "Aunty Jinx!"  Whatever works!!!!

 

Lastly, you spoke of your mother:

Quote

(as my mom would say, she called being jealous being jellybeany lol)

 

LOL we always called that being "Jellieez!"  Like Jelly Babies.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

hi JanCarol

wow, thanks so much for all the time and effort you've put into replying to me, I am so grateful to have ppl that care that much.

I must admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the amnt of info and will have to try to break it up to go thru it over time.

 

My brain is just not working all that well right now :/
 

some random thoughts:

 

I do eat nuts, mostly walnuts and I add ground flax seeds to a lot of stuff like my homemade veggie burgers and to peanut butter etc

 

I have seen that psych Education site before w/ the info on dark therapy etc.

I do not keep the tv on all the time, only when I feel esp alone, and rarely during the day but sometimes I need it on in the background esp from say 6pm on or so.

there's so very little on TV that I can tolerate watching, most of it is just plain garbage.

I got some blue light blocking glasses but they were very cheap and therefore are very uncomfortable, I should have gotten a better pair.

When I am able to figure out my budget to see if I have any money to spare, I'll consider getting a better pair.

 

well more later, I must get ready to go out, got an appt for a physical today, haven't had one done in a couple of years.

 

thanks again JC!!

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello.

 

It looks to me that you need to taper that Zyprexa, you went off it too fast this last time around.

 

Good to hear you're eating better. 

 

What is your vitamin B12 status? This can be a crucial supplement, as we get older, the amount stored in our livers is depleted.

 

Not sure where you're located. In the US, Meetup.com is a good way to meet people, or Nextdoor.com. You might be able to find a sewing or knitting circle, or start one in your area.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[JanCarol]

Hey!

 

That's great about the walnuts and flax seeds.

 

The ancients believed that because walnut looked like a brain, it was good for our brains.  Turns out they weren't wrong - it's good good oils, and magnesium.

 

I have found in my notes, a number of questions about drugs.  Maybe they've been answered for you, maybe not, but I'll throw them in.  Not trying to overwhelm you, but I don't get to everyone on a regular basis - so you will always have these references on your thread to look at when you are more able to face them.

 

YES people care about you!  

Two quick questions:

What have you decided to do about verapamil?  Cut the dose in half and take it every day?  Taper it down to nothing?  Get it re-evaluated by a doctor?

You only took like 2 doses of the olanzapine, right?  I have in my notes 1 dose of 1.25 mg, and 1 dose of 2.5 mg, and that you only have 1 dose 1.25 mg left in your stash.  Do I have this correct?

I will have to come back later, the sun is setting, and karate is calling.
 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

On 1/26/2017 at 3:49 PM, Altostrata said:

Hello.

 

It looks to me that you need to taper that Zyprexa, you went off it too fast this last time around.

 

Good to hear you're eating better. 

 

What is your vitamin B12 status? This can be a crucial supplement, as we get older, the amount stored in our livers is depleted.

 

Not sure where you're located. In the US, Meetup.com is a good way to meet people, or Nextdoor.com. You might be able to find a sewing or knitting circle, or start one in your area.

 

Hi Alto,

sorry I haven't updated my signature.

I don't know what my b12 status is officially, it's not something that's included in routine blood work for ppl with medicaid.

I was taking B12 once a week but stopped taking it, in case it was contributing to the anxiety and sleeplessness.

 

I may try it again at some point, but there have been too many changes recently for me to be adding anything right now.

 

I don't need any more things to do outside of my home. It is difficult for me to get out for many reasons (lack of transportation, lack of money for what transportation is available, the weather etc) but I do get out almost every week day, either to shop, or go to yoga, or an appt, etc

 

I think I am just tired of trying to hold myself together and do not know how much longer I can keep doing this.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

YES people care about you!  

 

Two quick questions:

What have you decided to do about verapamil?  Cut the dose in half and take it every day?  Taper it down to nothing?  Get it re-evaluated by a doctor?

 

You only took like 2 doses of the olanzapine, right?  I have in my notes 1 dose of 1.25 mg, and 1 dose of 2.5 mg, and that you only have 1 dose 1.25 mg left in your stash.  Do I have this correct?

 

 

 

 

I had my physical yesterday, my blood pressure is good on the half dose of verapamil, I will be keeping it there and trying to see the Parish nurse to have it checked periodically to see if I can drop that half dose.

 

I have taken more than 2 doses of zyprexa, I have my notes here somewhere and will update when I am feeling better

 

today is a really rough day.

[Happy2Heal]

this sucks

I just want it to be over already LOL

 

I am having a hard time being patient!!!!!

[PatriciaVP]

Hi Cat,

 

Sorry to hear you are feeling so poorly. This infernal waiting to be well is just awful. We're taught from such a young age not to wait for things to happen, but to go out and MAKE them happen. It feels impossible to accept that the only thing that will truly heal our bodies and brains is time. Especially when we've lost so much time to this process as it is. Believe me, you are not the only one with a patience issue.

 

Lately I've been trying to spend less time thinking about the time when I will be fully healed and more time just paying attention to the process. Considering what is to be learned here. More often than not, however, I've been returning to the "This too shall pass" mantra to escape the pain of the moment. I do believe that by at least trying to sit and observe the pain I am starting to make peace with it, and that makes the time spent in turmoil feel like less of a waste.

 

You've really shown a great deal of patience so far to stick with this process so far. You're doing so well. Please don't berate yourself over a few moments of understandable frustration.

[Happy2Heal]

thanks Patricia

 

i am so confused!
I was able to sleep when I took the first zyprexa and the next day I felt fantastic

 

I mean, really really good!

now I am thinking that was almost like a reaction to the zyprexa......?

 

I went back on the 2.5 tablets a couple of days ago and I am not feeling any better

 

I feel a bit worse actually

:/

 

these damn drugs, you just never know what they are going to do to you!

 

I'll update my signature some time soonish

 

 

[LexAnger]

I think you interpreted it perfectly correct, but unfortunately.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed quote after member name change

[PatriciaVP]

That is so bizarre! How frustrating. Maybe one of the mods has an idea of why it turned on you so quickly.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed quote after member name change

[JanCarol]

The side effects of zyprexa are pretty depressing.  It's a very (very) strong drug.

 

I think what you are feeling is just the zyprexa, doing what it does.  Is it any wonder that people "quit their meds?"

 

Please, whatever you do - do the same thing for awhile.  Alto's thinking that you already may need to taper the zyprexa, we need to determine how long you have been on them, how many doses you've taken, to determine a safe course of action.

 

So - that signature is becoming important again.  Sorry!

[Happy2Heal]

back on the zyprexa, will be on it at 2.5mgs til I see the psych RN on Feb 3rd

If things continue the way they have been, I will be asking for an increase in the zyprexa to 5mgs for a short period of time, not to exceed a month but probably I will only need it for a few weeks, or possibly less.

 

 

[Skeeter]

 

I started to read your thread, and something stuck out at me near the beginning, so I would like to know if you still have this symptom, or if it was just part of your withdrawal.

 

You posted that when you looked down, you got dizzy. Does that happen anymore?

 

I hope the Zyprexa helps you!

Skeeter

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

On 1/28/2017 at 9:32 AM, Skeeter said:

 

I started to read your thread, and something stuck out at me near the beginning, so I would like to know if you still have this symptom, or if it was just part of your withdrawal.

 

You posted that when you looked down, you got dizzy. Does that happen anymore?

 

I hope the Zyprexa helps you!

Skeeter

 

Hi Skeeter,

 no that hasn't happened in a long time.

I barely remember it now lol

 

one of the first times I went off lexapro cold turkey, I had terrible dizziness, and could not walk straight. I fell over often and walked into things.

I never connected it with WD, never heard of any such thing, but when I had the same thing happen on a future CT off lexapro, I immediately realized it was from going off the drug.

 

why do you ask?

 

 

thanks for the wishes regarding the zyprexa. That stuff  is a like a miracle drug, for me.

I know ppl here have a very negative opinion of these drugs but you can not deny that for some people, in some situations, they are very helpful.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Skeeter]

Cat,

I asked about dizziness because of your health history, and you being at extreme risk for stroke.  It can be a very RARE symptom of carotid artery stenosis (this usually has no symptoms at all).  You do not need to worry, as it would not come and go, as it has for you, according to my research.  I was only explaining because you wished to know why I asked.  Not meant to scare you, as you are NOT having this issue any longer.  This happened to a friend of ours, and he is fine now after treatment, when he looked down, it kinked off the blood flow to his head.  Yours does not sound that severe by far, esp since it happened again to you later when you lowered your med again!

 

I did not read your thread carefully enough.  I thought you had only gotten a few rescue doses of Zyprexa to allow you some sleep.  After going back to re-read, I realized not only do you want to take it more, you want to increase your dose.  Over only 14 days you went from being afraid of taking the 2 pills you had, and now you wish to up the dose to 5mg and stay on for up to a month!?!?  AND you gained 10lbs in a week! What worried me for you is how you are going to be able to afford the grocery bill that will come with this increased hunger, and how your heart will be able to tolerate the extra weight coming on so quickly. You could gain an extra 25-40 pounds of weight.  That probably means no more luxury of taking half of your Verapamil, as you heart will have to work harder to deal with increased weight, and with you caring about your health, I cannot see you taking that lightly!  SA is a site for coming off of Psych drugs, not for adding to them, esp with a drug with so many lawsuits as you yourself brought up. I was happy for your short term use of a low dose to get some sleep, but you going from being afraid to take that first quarter pill to where you are now, and the WD symptoms you had just after a few doses should be a huge flashing red light to you that something is wrong.  This is not a drug you can just stop taking, if after what, 3 doses you had painful withdrawal symptoms that you compared to coming off of Seroquel, if memory serves...  That should tell you something if after 2-3 piils you felt that bad!  Please consider tapering off the Zyprexa starting NOW.  I am worried about your wellbeing. You already have long term hypertension which takes its toll, Zyprexa is not a drug to be messed with.  Please proceed with a great degree of caution!

 

Best of luck!

Skeeter

[JanCarol]

Thanks - please put the dosage in your signature, so that a mod can see it at a glance.  It's at 2.5 mg now, right?

 

I have to agree with Skeeter that increasing olanzapine is not going to reduce your symptoms, if anything, it is more likely to increase your symptoms. I hadn't considered the risk of metabolic syndrome to your stroke risk and afib history - Skeeter is considering things that your doctor (or nurse) should be looking at, too.

 

I know you want so badly for the suffering to stop.  But 

1. You cannot treat a drug symptom (withdrawal) with another drug,

2. The side effect profile of olanzapine is heavy

3.  The complication of withdrawing from 2 drugs is not something I'd wish on anyone.

 

Please consider tapering off in the next month.  You've gotten some sleep - the best benefit of the olanzapine has already happened.  Taking more of it is not going to increase your sleep.  

 

I'm sorry you are struggling.  I hope we can find alternate ways through that do not involve drugs.

 

What did you think of Bubble's Mooji talk?  I listened to it, and found it quite pleasurable, and the kind of thing I could listen to again and again and continue to learn from.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

Cat,

I asked about dizziness because of your health history, and you being at extreme risk for stroke.  It can be a very RARE symptom of carotid artery stenosis (this usually has no symptoms at all).  You do not need to worry, as it would not come and go, as it has for you, according to my research.  I was only explaining because you wished to know why I asked.  Not meant to scare you, as you are NOT having this issue any longer.  This happened to a friend of ours, and he is fine now after treatment, when he looked down, it kinked off the blood flow to his head.  Yours does not sound that severe by far, esp since it happened again to you later when you lowered your med again!

 

 

Best of luck!

Skeeter

Thanks Skeeter,

My carotid is checked at the drs frequently and I am aware of the stroke risks, etc. (one of the reasons I want to get off the celebrex)

 

My PRN use of zyprexa is not something I take lightly. I should have gone on it way the hell back in late Aug when I first had the intrusive thoughts, Had I done that, a single 5 mg dose would have turned this whole thing around (not the lexapro withdrawal, but the other issue, which is something that has happened spontaneously in the past and also happens to my identical twin sister, who has never taken an SSRI)

 

Have you ever taken an atypical anti psychotic yourself?

[Happy2Heal]

 

 

I have to agree with Skeeter that increasing olanzapine is not going to reduce your symptoms, if anything, it is more likely to increase your symptoms.

 

You've gotten some sleep - the best benefit of the olanzapine has already happened.  Taking more of it is not going to increase your sleep.  

 

 

 

 

 

no actually taking more does help me sleep and the symptoms have decreased dramatically.

 

 

 

[JanCarol]

Have you ever taken an atypical anti psychotic yourself?

 

Yes.  Seroquel, "for sleep."  25-100 per night, "whatever I felt like" said the doc.  (roughly equivalent to what you are on now).

 

For about 5 years.  Yep, it stops the thought all right.

 

 I suspect you haven't felt any side effects yet from the Olanzapine.  You posted:  

 

I went back on the 2.5 tablets a couple of days ago and I am not feeling any better

 

I feel a bit worse actually

 

Actually, this does not mean that a bigger dose will be any better.  It just means that, after your withdrawal, it doesn't do the same thing that it did before.  

 

I'm sorry you feel you need it, but it is, as always, your mind, your choice.

 

Please keep in mind that what the drug did "last time," it may not do this time.

 

You asked, a few pages back:

 

I was later told that if you go off lithium it may never work for you again.

 

My response from my notes (which I wrote about a week ago):   

"That's true of lithium - and many other psych drugs.  I wouldn't be surprised if it were true for a number of different "medications," as our bodies work very hard to maintain homeostasis."

 

Please be careful, you have to walk the fine line between the intrusiveness of your thoughts, versus the dangers of the drug.  I acknowledge your journey through the rough places in the night.  I'm sorry that ANYone has to go through that, once, much less relive it on a regular basis.

 

You asked:

do you fight the dark places or accept them?

do you force yourself to think positive, or what???

 

Mmmm.

 

Acceptance is huge.

 

I find that the best use of the monsters is to greet them, and put them to work.  So I accept them.  I find compassion for them, and then find what we have to offer each other.  I let them have voices (in appropriate places), jobs, after awhile, we help each other.

 

I spent so many years in a depleted, non-functional state.  I still suffer depletion very easily.

 

So the monsters - the fear, the worry, the anger - can become a source of energy.

 

But you can't let them run wild - if you can befriend them, and find compassion for them, they may submit to your halter, and help you.  Sure, sometimes we wrassle (fight) a bit - but if you offer them territory, or a voice, or a job - they become less feral.

 

Anger helps me energize and fight for what I believe in.

Fear reminds me to be diligent

Jealousy makes me raise my game.

Worry makes me anticipate problems to be solved.

 

But I have to also understand, that my anger comes from very deep hurt, and the pain I feel when my loved ones are hurting, too.

And the things I have been through are the source of my fear, and my sense of failure and inferiority leave me vulnerable to jealousy.  And I was taught to worry, when I failed to pay attention and horrible things happened.  These understandings help me have compassion for the Monsters.

 

In that compassion, they are not so frightening, not so overwhelming.  In fact, most of them are very small children or little non-verbal animals who are deeply hurt, and just want to be heard, and make themselves out to be big Monsters in order to tell their stories.

 

I recommend for you, Brassmonkey's excellent Dealing with Emotional Spirals or possibly the discussion here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3882-ocd-obsessive-thoughts-compulsive-behaviors/

 

I hope you can keep your doses down.  I've got my fingers crossed that you can find some breathing space, and open into some new ways of addressing your struggle that will help you.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[AliG]

It sounds like you are on your way. We are all so happy for you.

 

I hope it keeps up.

 

Well done.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ChessieCat
removed member name

[Happy2Heal]

 

Have you ever taken an atypical anti psychotic yourself?

 

Yes.  Seroquel, "for sleep."  25-100 per night, "whatever I felt like" said the doc.  (roughly equivalent to what you are on now).

 

For about 5 years.  Yep, it stops the thought all right.

 

 I suspect you haven't felt any side effects yet from the Olanzapine.  You posted:  

 

I went back on the 2.5 tablets a couple of days ago and I am not feeling any better

 

I feel a bit worse actually

 

Actually, this does not mean that a bigger dose will be any better.  It just means that, after your withdrawal, it doesn't do the same thing that it did before.  

 

I'm sorry you feel you need it, but it is, as always, your mind, your choice.

 

Please keep in mind that what the drug did "last time," it may not do this time.

 

You asked, a few pages back:

 

I was later told that if you go off lithium it may never work for you again.

 

My response from my notes (which I wrote about a week ago):   

"That's true of lithium - and many other psych drugs.  I wouldn't be surprised if it were true for a number of different "medications," as our bodies work very hard to maintain homeostasis."

 

Please be careful, you have to walk the fine line between the intrusiveness of your thoughts, versus the dangers of the drug.  I acknowledge your journey through the rough places in the night.  I'm sorry that ANYone has to go through that, once, much less relive it on a regular basis.

 

You asked:

do you fight the dark places or accept them?

do you force yourself to think positive, or what???

 

Mmmm.

 

Acceptance is huge.

 

I find that the best use of the monsters is to greet them, and put them to work.  So I accept them.  I find compassion for them, and then find what we have to offer each other.  I let them have voices (in appropriate places), jobs, after awhile, we help each other.

 

I spent so many years in a depleted, non-functional state.  I still suffer depletion very easily.

 

So the monsters - the fear, the worry, the anger - can become a source of energy.

 

But you can't let them run wild - if you can befriend them, and find compassion for them, they may submit to your halter, and help you.  Sure, sometimes we wrassle (fight) a bit - but if you offer them territory, or a voice, or a job - they become less feral.

 

Anger helps me energize and fight for what I believe in.

Fear reminds me to be diligent

Jealousy makes me raise my game.

Worry makes me anticipate problems to be solved.

 

But I have to also understand, that my anger comes from very deep hurt, and the pain I feel when my loved ones are hurting, too.

And the things I have been through are the source of my fear, and my sense of failure and inferiority leave me vulnerable to jealousy.  And I was taught to worry, when I failed to pay attention and horrible things happened.  These understandings help me have compassion for the Monsters.

 

In that compassion, they are not so frightening, not so overwhelming.  In fact, most of them are very small children or little non-verbal animals who are deeply hurt, and just want to be heard, and make themselves out to be big Monsters in order to tell their stories.

 

I recommend for you, Brassmonkey's excellent Dealing with Emotional Spirals or possibly the discussion here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3882-ocd-obsessive-thoughts-compulsive-behaviors/

 

I hope you can keep your doses down.  I've got my fingers crossed that you can find some breathing space, and open into some new ways of addressing your struggle that will help you.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

 

ok I am getting confused and overwhelmed by these responses

I *think*  I asked Skeeter about taking anti psychotics.... not JC

 

I don't know~

it's all too much to read right now.

 

I need to just keep going  is all.

[Happy2Heal]

I'm very sorry for all the time youve put into responding

I can't handle reading so much right now

 

I wanted out of the  mental health system because they want to try to take over your life, and I sometimes feel like coming here is not all that different, only in the opposite way

 

everyone wants to take over my life and tell me what I can and can't or should or shouldn't ingest or do with my own body

 

i'm saying that's how if FEELS mind you, not that that is the way it IS

 

there seems to be this black and white thinking regarding psych meds, as if there is no good use for them whatsoever, and that is just absurd.

short term, lowest effective dose, that makes sense  for some ppl, some of the time, and if you are not open to that being valid, then you're just the flip side of the 'there's a pill for everything' coin