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Eckhart Tolle: The Pain Body and Mental suffering during withdrawal

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#1 Shanti

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

Depression, Anxiety – When the Pain-Body Awakens – Teachings of Eckhart Tolle


Go to the link for the Podcast.

From the description:


On this episode of Living with Tolle we talk about the pain-body, a powerful spiritual insight Eckhart Tolle first introduced in The Power of Now. We explore how the pain-body manifests in life and strategies for dealing with the short term and long term effects.



What is the Pain-Body?

The pain-body has been described by Eckhart Tolle as past emotional pain alive in your life today.

The pain-body is a living entity or energy field that is attached to the authentic expression of your life. As such, it can be described as a parasitic energy field engorging itself on your life energy. Think of a tapeworm: it releases a chemical in the body that makes you crave food that feeds and engorges the parasite, but is actually bad for you.

“The pain-body is a semi-autonomous energy-form that lives within most human beings, an entity made up of emotion. It has its own primitive intelligence, not unlike a cunning animal, and its intelligence is directed primarily at survival.

~ Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth

But the pain-body is not just a personal problem. The pain-body is a collective phenomenon. The pain-body is transferred to the individual through social and cultural conditioning. You experience the collective pain-body on a personal level and through the many ways it can manifest in your life. In fact, the collective pain-body survives through individuals remaining unconscious and contributing “pain” from personal experiences.

Eckhart has stated that your greatest responsibility is to personally cleanse yourself of the pain-body, so you no longer add to the collective pain-body.

Why is acceptance such a powerful spiritual practice in dealing with the pain-body?

The pain-body has two states: active and dormant. When it is active, it is a sign that you are not conscious enough to keep from reacting to life from the pain. And even though it may be uncomfortable and counterintuitive, when the pain-body is active the only constructive response is to be in acceptance of what is happening in this moment.

“The beginning of freedom from the pain-body lies first of all in the realization that you have a pain-body. Then, more important, in your ability to stay present enough, alert enough, to notice the pain-body in yourself as a heavy influx of negative emotion when it becomes active. When it is recognized, it can no longer pretend to be you and live and renew itself through you.”

~ Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth


Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.
Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)
My Paxil Website
My Intro

#2 Nikki

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

I think this is like the "old tapes playing over and over again" and detaching from them. Wreckage from the past I suppose....

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#3 Shanti

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:49 AM

Yes, that is a good analogy.
Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.
Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)
My Paxil Website
My Intro

#4 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 09:43 AM

When I was in protracted withdrawal from Effexor last year, I didn't realize what was happening.  I had never felt such darkness and fear.  Feelings of doom, dread, and thoughts of not being able to go on were unlike anything i had experienced before in my life.  It was a truly terrifying time.

 

I ended up reinstating and it worked, and now I am tapering and hopefully will avoid all of that again.  But I read threads here from people who are in that dark place, especially when a wave won't abate.  It seems that nothing anyone has to offer helps.  

 

I didn't know what was happening, and that ended an extra scary element to my suffering.  Had I know it was withdrawal, I might have been able to cope better.

 

I learned about Eckhart Tolle from someone on SA, sorry that I don't remember whom.  Eckhart's teachings really brought me peace, and I wonder if they would have made a difference had I been aware of them when I was in that hell.  Maybe not, but maybe!

 

Even before drugs and withdrawal, I was a negative person with low self-esteem.  Withdrawal brought this out 10X.  No, 100X!  You get the idea.  I am including two youtube videos here by Eckhart about the Pain Body.  I've always had a strong Pain Body, was totally identified with it.  I think withdrawal makes the Pain Body take on heightened proportions, like King Kong!  Anyway, awareness is the beginning.

 

I hope these audios give someone some peace while healing.

 

SG

 

 


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#5 Chochka

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 11:14 AM

Hi SquirellyGirl, it's Chochka. Thanks for your advice to join this forum. I've felt terrible for months now, even though I've only just come off prozac. I don't want to go back on again as I think it stopped working for me a while ago. I've just got to get through this. I will certainly listen to these. See you soon. 


Originally went on prozac 2008 for CFS - 20mg

Finished end 2012 - extreme anxiety and insomnia for a year, reinstated Jan 2014 - 40mg.

Jan 2015 tapered to 20mg - 5 months WD

Sept 2015 - took 3 tablets for vertigo - triggered 5 months WD

Switched to sertraline Dec 2015 - didn't work so went CT Jan 2016. 6 weeks of breathing and sleep problems so reinstated sertraline.

April 2016 CT - WD started.

April - August 2016 very low dose zopiclone - made WD worse so stopped end August 2017

Since Sept 2016 WD: drowsiness and fatigue; headaches (ended Christmas 2016); numb face (ended Christmas 2016); vivid dreams; anxiety and tearfulness; dizziness; nausea; loud tinnitus; irrational feelings of fear and dread; tingling up and down the backs of my legs; some insomnia but that's getting better. 


#6 KarenB

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:10 PM

Thanks for posting this SG - I think many of us will identify with these feelings. 

Karen

x


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#7 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:35 PM

Hi KarenB, 

 

Yes, I love the explanation about the Pain Body.  I love to think of it as some little entity trying to manipulate me, but I won't have it!  If you can just get past Eckhart's mug....LOL!  I really like listening to the clips of him speaking live with students because he really has quite the sense of humor and a silly little laugh :-)  

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#8 Idecidedtolive

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:58 PM

Thank you for posting this SquirrellyGirl. I am just on the first few steps forward and was having a really stressful and gloomy day. And then I listened to these thanks to you. :-)

#9 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 09:01 PM

Thank you for posting this SquirrellyGirl. I am just on the first few steps forward and was having a really stressful and gloomy day. And then I listened to these thanks to you. :-)

Wow, I am so happy to know that this helped, idecidedtolive! 

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#10 Seeker53

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 09:04 PM

OMG SquirrellyGirl!!!!! Those two videos you posted are great. My mind is blown! I honestly believe if I had watched them years ago, I would never have needed ADs. It's so simple yet so profound. I will keep rewatching these to remind myself to be a watcher!

However, I do wonder if it would have helped when I was in the thick of my wd last time. I didn't even relate my vicious symptoms to anything that I could control with my mind. To me, then, the wd felt so physical. Like I was in such a dark place that nothing could penetrate it or help control it. It was a horrible time! I spent hours and hours listening to meditations, calming talks, music, taking showers, anything! Hence why I not only went back on Effexor, but had my dose doubled. And happy at that time to do so.

Now I have sa on my side and the knowledge at my fingertips. These videos sum up how I was living prior to meds. Feeding a monster! So as my meds decrease over a long time with my slow taper, my feelings and thoughts will start to return to their prior-med state and I will be able to watch how they try to stay alive. Wow! And if I taper properly, I should avoid the out of control problems that woke me each day. (I don't mind having a much less overpowering version that I can deal with). These videos will be a powerful tool to help with all that.

Thanks again for posting them, S53
8 years on venlafaxine (generic name Altven). Various doses then 3 years on 75mg. Tapered off too quickly with very bad withdrawals. Put back on at higher dose of 150mg to stabilise. Been at 150mg for a year. Stable and ready to taper slowly.
Dosage 150mg. Average beads in each capsule 543
January 2016. Start tapering. Also taking fish oil, vit e daily and magnesium as required.
08/01 started with 5% taper, held for 2 weeks the. Another 5% and held for a month.
3rd March another 10% cut, now taking out 102 beads. Hold for a month then assess.

#11 starcontrol2

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 07:08 AM

Hi SG,

Thank you for posting these.
I wish reinstatement had worked for me. I am in what you describe this dark, scary place and noone can help. I know it's withdrawal, I don't know if knowing this helps as sometimes i think this is the way i will be or that i need some kind of med to be able to function, both absolutely false thoughts.
I read Tolle many years back(no meds), i tried to put his principles to use but it didn't really work.
Now that I am many times worse, I find the videos a little relaxing while i listen but I can't relief pain and despair.
Tolle suffered for many many years before his brain "rewired" and reached "enlightened" state. Just like any activity physical or mental it requires years of practice. Same with Buddha, who suffered for many years before he found his path.
I very much would like to accept the now and not suffer.
If anyone can add some hints on that I would be greatful.

10/2012 - Lexapro 10mg

2013/2014 - Started experiencing visual disturbances, like visual processing was slow, feeling drunk all the time

9/2014 - Lexapro 5mg, didn't notice any withdrawal, drunk feeling went away

2015 - Drunk feeling came back

5/2015 - Lexapro 2.5mg - 1.25mg - insomnia started

6/2015 - Lexapro 0.625mg

7/2015 - Severe symptoms started, in desperation on advice of pdoc restarted 5mg Lexapro - total disaster

8/2015 - Lexapro 5mg, disoriented, sleepless zombie

9/2015 - Very reluctantly started transitioning to Zoloft

as of 10/10/2105 - no lexapro, 37.5mg Zoloft

12/14/2015 - 35mg zoloft, 1/16/2016 - 34mg


#12 Georgina

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:39 PM

I have been listening to the audiobook "The Power of Now" over the last two weeks and it is so fantastic. I can already see and feel a difference in my life. I really recommend it!
<p><p><p><p>Efexor at age 16 for a few years. I am now 35. Took a 'street' drug at 18 and suffered massive panic attacks. Epilim for approximately one year. At age 22 put on to Sertraline 100mg - took that for approx. 8 years. Dropped to 50mg around age 30. No problems. Tried to taper off 50 mg at age 32 (3 months taper). Was fine for a few months and then had massive panic, anxiety, depersonalisation, health anxiety etc. Went to 100mg for a few months. Dropped back to 50mg. Been on 50mg for past three years. Tried to taper again; went to 37.5 mg, then 25mg and started feeling weird so went back to 50mg. Tried 37.5mg again, found this site and read it's best to taper in 10% increments so put myself up to 45mg on Monday. <p>40mg since April 2015. Dropped to 36mg 06 Sept 2015. Dropped to 34mg 18 October (5% drop). Going to stay on for six weeks. Dropped to 32mg 29 November (5% drop). Dropped to 30mg 10 January 2016 (5% drop). Dropped to 28mg 31 January (5% drop). Dropped to 26mg 20 March (5% drop). Dropped to 25mg 08 April. Dropping to 24mg 17 April. Drop to 23mg 08 May. Drop to 22mg 21 May. Drop to 21mg 02 June 2016. Dropped to 20mg 17 June. Dropped to 19mg 09 July. Dropped to 18mg 20th July. Dropped to 17mg 18th August. Dropped to 16mg 25th September 2016. Back up to 17mg 10 October 2016. Back up to 19mg 20th October 2016. Back up to 20mg 27 October 2016.

#13 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 02:44 PM

Hi SG,

Now that I am many times worse, I find the videos a little relaxing while i listen but I can't relief pain and despair.
Tolle suffered for many many years before his brain "rewired" and reached "enlightened" state. Just like any activity physical or mental it requires years of practice. Same with Buddha, who suffered for many years before he found his path.
I very much would like to accept the now and not suffer.
If anyone can add some hints on that I would be greatful.

Hi starcontrol2, thanks for commenting.  I fully recognize that a lot of people get into the state that you are in where none of the techniques to soothe the emotional turmoil seem to help, but I still think it is good to try and I'm glad you had a listen.  Georgina is in a place where it can help, and who knows, soon you may be as well  :D

 

I hadn't discovered Eckhart and meditation and the like when I was still in bad withdrawal, so I have no idea if it would have helped then or not.  It may be one of those things where when in a window the ideas could seep in and stick better and then become helpful for later waves. I know a friend from SA said there was a time where she just couldn't receive helpful info like that, but later she could.  It may be because the emotional anguish you are feeling is purely chemical (neuro emotions).

 

As far as I was concerned, I'd had years of dysfunctional thinking that caused low self-esteem, lack of confidence, etc., well before drugs, so it was a relief for me to learn what he had to teach, without much work, either!  I just found the idea that my feelings were running the show but that I didn't have to be identified with the thought form such a relief!  Our thoughts cause our suffering, and we don't HAVE to have them!  But when having neuro emotions they do have a life of their own.

 

I still think too much, so haven't been very disciplined about meditating and emptying my mind of thoughts.  Thankfully, my thoughts are not full of worries and self-judgement like they used to be, so that is a relief!

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#14 Petunia

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 09:47 PM

I read 'The Power of Now' a long time ago, probably shortly after it was published, I was on SSRIs at the time. While emotions are being suppressed, it makes it less likely for our 'pain body' to be triggered.

 

But even so, reading the book was a turning point in my life, it gave me some tools I could use to help me live more consistently in the present moment and avoid unnecessary anxiety which comes from habitual thinking about an imagined future. For a while I carried the book around with me, if seemed like it contained magic.

 

But going through withdrawal has taken anxiety and run away thought processes to a completely new level. When I was at my worst, my 'pain body' was all I knew of myself, it was activated all the time.  I was too late to be able to reinstate and so I'm having to work with this pain body aspect of myself, learning how to face it and integrate parts of it into my whole self, and let go of what's not real, its an ongoing process.

 

Being in the present moment is the only way I've been able to remain sane and at times I've had to fight with everything I have to keep my thoughts from spiraling out of control into an imaginary nightmare version of the future. Its been the most difficult circumstances in which to be in 'the now', because the now contains very unpleasant sensations and the impulse is to escape from them. But withdrawal hit and it was like it was my time to 'pay the piper', no more running because running meant escaping into my thoughts, which had become  nightmare versions of themselves. So being in the now has been the only way I've remained sane. By facing my present moment discomfort and letting it be there...no matter how bad it gets, that's how I avoid causing the secondary conflict, which adds fuel to the fire (more fear) and the suffering starts to decrease.

 

We have a topic on neuro-emotions, which suggests that the intense emotions aroused in withdrawal are in fact not real. They are obviously not part of who we normally are, but I've always questioned the idea that they are not real. To me, they have felt very real, connected to me in some way and shocking because until now, I've never had to consciously face things so hideous and unbearable about myself. If we are going to call this our 'pain body', then perhaps it isn't an original part of who we are, but something which developed over the course of our life, through experiences, since birth, but definitely attached to us, until we somehow manage to dissolve it, or at least minimize its influence over our lives.

 

Life would be much easier if we never had to encounter such a thing, but the idea of a previously well suppressed 'pain body' being unleashed by withdrawal works well for me.

 

Before my antidepressant era, I had a persistent pain body which was getting more and more difficult to ignore. I had become consciously aware of this 'negative' aspect of myself during my early 20's, through reading other self help books and by discovering my own ability to watch my thoughts and actions, but back then, I didn't understand the importance of watching without judgement, I became my own harsh critic and found myself in lots of conflict with my own natural  patterns.

 

Not only did I have poor self esteem, a harsh inner critic, and difficulties managing my emotions, but then I became critical of myself for being this way, once I became aware of it. It took me a long time to understand that accepting reality meant also accepting what I've been conditioned to believe were the unacceptable realities about myself, including having emotions at all, ...its work in progress.

 

Zoloft had shut all that down to a large extent, my inner explorations, my conscious attempts to grow, heal and integrate got covered in a thick, sludgy glue-like experience. I knew my life used to be on a different path, but somehow it didn't seem important any more... I ate ice cream, watched TV and played video games at night instead of reading books and meditating.. I had become more main-stream normal.

 

 

When I was in protracted withdrawal from Effexor last year, I didn't realize what was happening.  I had never felt such darkness and fear.  Feelings of doom, dread, and thoughts of not being able to go on were unlike anything i had experienced before in my life.  It was a truly terrifying time...

 

...I've always had a strong Pain Body, was totally identified with it.  I think withdrawal makes the Pain Body take on heightened proportions, like King Kong!  Anyway, awareness is the beginning.

 

 

I agree, whatever we call the intense emotions and sensations which are caused by withdrawal, for most of us, its impossible to remain unaware of them. The first step in solving a problem is to become aware of it... to see it, to shed some light on it.  Perhaps that's what enlightenment really is, bringing things up into the light, seeing what's really part of us and what isn't and letting go of what's not, including all the scary stuff which has been hiding down there in the dark.

 

Tolle suffered for many many years before his brain "rewired" and reached "enlightened" state. Just like any activity physical or mental it requires years of practice. Same with Buddha, who suffered for many years before he found his path.
I very much would like to accept the now and not suffer.
If anyone can add some hints on that I would be greatful.

 

It can be difficult understanding how acceptance of the now leads to the end of suffering. It helps to first understand the difference between pain and suffering. We can never avoid pain, that's part of the experience of life in a physical body. Suffering, I believe is a purely human experience, we have a unique 'mind', which is able to compare different states of existence in time. We learn, through our cultural conditioning non-acceptance of the current reality in an attempt to create better and better outcomes for ourselves through life. The down side of this is that when we find ourselves in unpleasant situations, with no possible escape, our habit of non-acceptance, through our programmed mind patterns causes suffering, through conflict between the current reality, the impulse to escape and our mind locked into a loop of trying to solve an unsolvable problem.

 

So, to end the suffering, our mind has to be unlocked from its patterned activities and made still, so that we relax into reality, whatever it contains, there may still be pain (sensations), but with no judgement and no striving to escape, there is no longer any suffering. If the pain is emotional, it always comes to a natural conclusion if left alone and allowed to move through the body. Much of our physical pain is self resolving too, if we leave it alone. Our bodies have evolved to self heal, if given the right environment and conditions.

 

Acceptance of 'the now' does take a lot of practice because most of us have been locked into our conditioned past/future thought processes for years, with no awareness at all. If someone is born into a favorable life and situation, who doesn't encounter much difficulty, then there is little incentive to do the work or even step on 'the path' in the first place.

 

For me, I see withdrawal as life shoving me back onto a path I made the mistake of falling off by starting on SSRIs, but now I get to do the fast paced, intense course because I wasted so much time.

 

This thread should probably be moved to the 'finding meaning' forum, there's an Eckhart Tolle topic there already.  If there is no further discussion here in the next few days I will do that.


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal.

 

My Introduction Thread

 

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

 

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety)

Xanax PRN

Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes animal25.gif

 

Supplements which seem to help:  High doses of Vitamin C, Magnesium, Garlic and Ginger.  Taurine, Vit D3, L-Theanine and Inositol. I'm one of the rare people who react badly to fish oil.

 

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

 

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 


#15 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 10:15 PM

Petunia, that was a really beautiful post that resonated with me completely.  Had I encountered these teachings before I'd gone on the meds, I don't know if I'd have been able to receive them or not.  But I do know that my years on meds made doing any work pointless.  As you wrote:

 

"Zoloft had shut all that down to a large extent, my inner explorations, my conscious attempts to grow, heal and integrate got covered in a thick, sludgy glue-like experience. I knew my life used to be on a different path, but somehow it didn't seem important any more... I ate ice cream, watched TV and played video games at night instead of reading books and meditating.. I had become more main-stream normal."

 

I gave my 21 year old nephew "The Power of Now' for Christmas because my sister said he had been having serious anxiety, worrying about the future.  I don't know that he will be able to receive the lessons, but i hope so.  I told her "please don't let him go down the slippery slope of psych meds if he can help it!"

 

Thank you for your response, Petunia!

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#16 Georgina

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 09:41 AM

This is such an inspiring thread!


<p><p><p><p>Efexor at age 16 for a few years. I am now 35. Took a 'street' drug at 18 and suffered massive panic attacks. Epilim for approximately one year. At age 22 put on to Sertraline 100mg - took that for approx. 8 years. Dropped to 50mg around age 30. No problems. Tried to taper off 50 mg at age 32 (3 months taper). Was fine for a few months and then had massive panic, anxiety, depersonalisation, health anxiety etc. Went to 100mg for a few months. Dropped back to 50mg. Been on 50mg for past three years. Tried to taper again; went to 37.5 mg, then 25mg and started feeling weird so went back to 50mg. Tried 37.5mg again, found this site and read it's best to taper in 10% increments so put myself up to 45mg on Monday. <p>40mg since April 2015. Dropped to 36mg 06 Sept 2015. Dropped to 34mg 18 October (5% drop). Going to stay on for six weeks. Dropped to 32mg 29 November (5% drop). Dropped to 30mg 10 January 2016 (5% drop). Dropped to 28mg 31 January (5% drop). Dropped to 26mg 20 March (5% drop). Dropped to 25mg 08 April. Dropping to 24mg 17 April. Drop to 23mg 08 May. Drop to 22mg 21 May. Drop to 21mg 02 June 2016. Dropped to 20mg 17 June. Dropped to 19mg 09 July. Dropped to 18mg 20th July. Dropped to 17mg 18th August. Dropped to 16mg 25th September 2016. Back up to 17mg 10 October 2016. Back up to 19mg 20th October 2016. Back up to 20mg 27 October 2016.

#17 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 12:48 PM

I get such comfort from Eckhart's teachings, and often share clips from youtube with others who might benefit.  Just shared this one a few moments ago, makes so much sense and he makes me laugh.  I can just listen to these over and over.

 

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#18 Drugrage

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 03:06 PM

I just want to jump in here and say that Eckahart Tolle is the biggest discovery i have ever made. 

You know that feeling in school when you learned a new way to see things. 

that feeling x 1000 when i read his books. 

So i approve of the message Ts



#19 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:31 PM

I just want to jump in here and say that Eckahart Tolle is the biggest discovery i have ever made. 

You know that feeling in school when you learned a new way to see things. 

that feeling x 1000 when i read his books. 

So i approve of the message Ts

You said it, Drugrage!  I feel the exact same way!  I wish I had learned about his teachings a long time ago!  Maybe I never would have taken that first pill....

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#20 Georgina

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:41 AM

I just ordered 'A New Earth' - am quite looking forward to it! I hope everyone is good x


<p><p><p><p>Efexor at age 16 for a few years. I am now 35. Took a 'street' drug at 18 and suffered massive panic attacks. Epilim for approximately one year. At age 22 put on to Sertraline 100mg - took that for approx. 8 years. Dropped to 50mg around age 30. No problems. Tried to taper off 50 mg at age 32 (3 months taper). Was fine for a few months and then had massive panic, anxiety, depersonalisation, health anxiety etc. Went to 100mg for a few months. Dropped back to 50mg. Been on 50mg for past three years. Tried to taper again; went to 37.5 mg, then 25mg and started feeling weird so went back to 50mg. Tried 37.5mg again, found this site and read it's best to taper in 10% increments so put myself up to 45mg on Monday. <p>40mg since April 2015. Dropped to 36mg 06 Sept 2015. Dropped to 34mg 18 October (5% drop). Going to stay on for six weeks. Dropped to 32mg 29 November (5% drop). Dropped to 30mg 10 January 2016 (5% drop). Dropped to 28mg 31 January (5% drop). Dropped to 26mg 20 March (5% drop). Dropped to 25mg 08 April. Dropping to 24mg 17 April. Drop to 23mg 08 May. Drop to 22mg 21 May. Drop to 21mg 02 June 2016. Dropped to 20mg 17 June. Dropped to 19mg 09 July. Dropped to 18mg 20th July. Dropped to 17mg 18th August. Dropped to 16mg 25th September 2016. Back up to 17mg 10 October 2016. Back up to 19mg 20th October 2016. Back up to 20mg 27 October 2016.

#21 Junglechicken

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 10:51 AM

SG and Petu - thank you both.

Petu, brilliantly articulate perspective of the "Pain Body".

Let's just say that I am standing at the bottom of Mt Everest contemplating the mental state I need to strive for.

A strange thing happened after I listened to the audios and spoke to my hubby - the horrible lower ab pain I was experiencing just vanished.

JC x
<p>Feb 2014 -Cipralex/Escitalopram 10mg daily June 2015 - Started taper, 5mg every other day July 2015 - 5mg every 2 days August 2015 - 5mg every 3 days September 2015 - 5mg every 4 days Sept 14th - Completed tapering, but at 7 weeks "drug free" I suffered serious WD symptoms as a consequence of "incorrect" tapering. Nov 25 2015 - Re-instated Cipralex @ 2.5mg daily. WD symptoms disappeared over a few days. Have been on this dose ever since and am experiencing "windows" and "waves". Nov 15th 2016 Re-started Therapy Jan 19th 2017 Started CBT. Jan 2017 Homeopathic Treatment starts 4th Jan 2017. Mar 2017 Naturopathic Treatment starts - anti-Candida diet starts as diagnosis of Candida Related Complex (CRC). 24 March 2017 DETOX started for anti-Candida to help "re-set" my gut. April 2017 Gut Cleanse - 6 weeks.Plan to re-start taper (liquid Cipralex/Escitalopram)

#22 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:44 PM


A strange thing happened after I listened to the audios and spoke to my hubby - the horrible lower ab pain I was experiencing just vanished.

JC x

 

Holy Wow!  He did talk about how the PB causes physical pains.  That is so cool!  That's a great start!  Don't be discouraged if the pain comes back - this is just proof of how powerful the mind is.  I listen to those over and over.

 

My husband had a horrible neck crisis due to stenosis, ended up having two levels of fusion in his neck.  He was still in so much pain after the surgery, constantly complaining of it and remarking that he never should have had the surgery.  The months and years went by.  At some point I noticed he never spoke of the pain and so I asked him, How's your neck?  He remarked that it didn't hurt as much, but that he still had pain.  The main difference was that he found that the more he thought about the pain, the more it hurt, so he chose to not think about it!  He had that surgery the day before 9/11, and he has never gotten into using pain relievers of any kind.  The mind is very powerful indeed!

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#23 Junglechicken

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 12:49 AM

It came back this morning SG except to lower back not lower ab.

 

Your husband is a great person to learn from I think.  He has achieved the mindfulness.

 

I'm nervous this morning because we are seeing the nurse today then the doc on Fri - have had a racing heart, pacing, upset stomach, lower back pain which came out of know where.

 

Going to go for a walk me thinks.

 

JC


<p>Feb 2014 -Cipralex/Escitalopram 10mg daily June 2015 - Started taper, 5mg every other day July 2015 - 5mg every 2 days August 2015 - 5mg every 3 days September 2015 - 5mg every 4 days Sept 14th - Completed tapering, but at 7 weeks "drug free" I suffered serious WD symptoms as a consequence of "incorrect" tapering. Nov 25 2015 - Re-instated Cipralex @ 2.5mg daily. WD symptoms disappeared over a few days. Have been on this dose ever since and am experiencing "windows" and "waves". Nov 15th 2016 Re-started Therapy Jan 19th 2017 Started CBT. Jan 2017 Homeopathic Treatment starts 4th Jan 2017. Mar 2017 Naturopathic Treatment starts - anti-Candida diet starts as diagnosis of Candida Related Complex (CRC). 24 March 2017 DETOX started for anti-Candida to help "re-set" my gut. April 2017 Gut Cleanse - 6 weeks.Plan to re-start taper (liquid Cipralex/Escitalopram)

#24 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 08:03 AM

It came back this morning SG except to lower back not lower ab.

 

Your husband is a great person to learn from I think.  He has achieved the mindfulness.

 

I'm nervous this morning because we are seeing the nurse today then the doc on Fri - have had a racing heart, pacing, upset stomach, lower back pain which came out of know where.

 

Going to go for a walk me thinks.

 

JC

 

Yes, my husband is annoyingly Present, naturally! LOL!  He does have a Pain Body, though :-)

 

I do think that a lot of your physical stuff is probably generated from emotional upset.  You are the opposite of me, keenly aware of every ache and pain.  I, on the other hand, spent years NOT listening to my body, not paying attention and so not making the connection that the drugs were actually making me worse! But that goes with self-abuse, something I practiced for many years.

 

So, to find the middle ground.  I think it is very wise and self-nurturing to take that walk, good for you!  I think you'd benefit greatly from reading or listening to the Power of Now or A New World, by Eckhart Tolle. Or plug in another author, Kabat-Zinn etc.  I kind of got overzealous about ET because his message messages resonated so completely with me, so my days were filled with watching/listening to Youtube stuff of his.  But you know, by spending my time that way, I wasn't spending it obsessing on my fears/worries/negative thoughts!

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#25 Bruin

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 05:29 PM

Am new here and struggling with my protracted withdrawal but Eckhart Tolle has helped me enormously. I too spend a lot of time listening to his recordings and watching the youtube videos. He is a truly great teacher .


Anti Depressants for  25 years. Valium between 2006 to 7 tapered off over a month without too bad withdrawals.

For last 15 years 150 mg of Effexor and 30 mg of Mirtazapine. Occasional short term benzo use without habituation.

March 2015 stopped Effexor after rapid taper. 6 weeks. 

One month fluoxetine June 2015...stopped CT July 2015.

October 2013 to December 2015 Zopiclone 15 mg at night,

Dec 2015 to Early March 2016 Lyrica 75 mg at night. 

Stopped too quickly as  adverse side effects.

January to May 2016 tapered Zopiclone to 7.5mg 

Crossed over to Valium and now ..November 20 th 2 mg Valium. February 17th 2017 at 1mg Valium. March 12th 2017. .5mg Valium.

Also on 30 mg Mirtazapine and holding until have finished Benzo taper.

IN protracted WD from Effexor.

 


#26 Hopefull

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:41 PM

I am an open minded person, but calling pain an illusion is a bit strange.
Pain is pain, there is no illusion about that.

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(


#27 SquirrellyGirl

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:05 PM

There is physical pain, but it is how you think about it that impacts you the most.  If you constantly ruminate over physical pain, agonizing that you have it and what if it never goes away, you will suffer more than if you don't put all that energy into thinking about it.  My husband is an example  He had two levels of fusion in his neck and after the surgery he was in so much pain, and it went on and on for months, such that he often declared he wished he'd never had the surgery.  Then, one day it occurred to me that I hadn't heard him complaining and so I asked him how his neck feels.  He said "It still hurts, but I found when I thought about it, it hurt more, so I just decided to stop thinking about it."

 

There are people who have horrible physical injuries or illnesses who blow us all away with their positive attitude, though we imagine that if we were in their shoes there would be no way we'd be able to handle it the way they are.

 

I think that is what ET is trying to say, that it is what the mind does with the pain that causes suffering.

 

Many people on SA have agonized over their withdrawal, creating secondary fear for themselves, and indeed neuro emotions are withdrawal symptoms.  However, many have declared that when they finally stopped fighting it and accepted their withdrawal, they then felt better and even had windows.  The ruminating can keep you in a wave!

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#28 Hopefull

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:59 AM

I agree that reumanating about WDS can keep you in a wave.
The most frustrating thing is when you start to feel better, you forget about WDS, but when it reappears it triggers anxiety and worsening of WDS.
It is like you are constantly being pulled down and reminded of the pain and suffering, when all you want to forget about the whole thing and move forward.
Moving forward is hard when you are being reminded of how you felt.

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(


#29 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:30 PM

I think it is an ego shock and the shock of the ego as it adjusts and finds acceptance in the new way of thinking and feeling which was there before but for me i seemed to have rejected


2005/6-2013 - A wild rollercoaster of meds I can't remmeber, i was on 40mg of zyprexa at one point daily
2014 200mg Zoloft /5mg Saphris
2015 April 200mg Zoloft /5mg Saphris
2015 May 200mg Zoloft / 400mg Seroquel
2015 June 200mg Zoloft / 300mg Seroquel
2015 July 150mg Zoloft / 200mg Seroquel
2015 August 125mg Zoloft / 100mg Seroquel
2015 September 100mg Zoloft / 50mg Seroquel
2015 October 50mg Zoloft
2015 November 75mg Zoloft

2016 November 100mg Zoloft; 112.5mg Clozaril 


#30 Junglechicken

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:34 AM

That's an interesting view CJS.

A damaged ego, and the not knowing when we will be fully healed is hard to accept and just fuels our emotional and physical pain.
<p>Feb 2014 -Cipralex/Escitalopram 10mg daily June 2015 - Started taper, 5mg every other day July 2015 - 5mg every 2 days August 2015 - 5mg every 3 days September 2015 - 5mg every 4 days Sept 14th - Completed tapering, but at 7 weeks "drug free" I suffered serious WD symptoms as a consequence of "incorrect" tapering. Nov 25 2015 - Re-instated Cipralex @ 2.5mg daily. WD symptoms disappeared over a few days. Have been on this dose ever since and am experiencing "windows" and "waves". Nov 15th 2016 Re-started Therapy Jan 19th 2017 Started CBT. Jan 2017 Homeopathic Treatment starts 4th Jan 2017. Mar 2017 Naturopathic Treatment starts - anti-Candida diet starts as diagnosis of Candida Related Complex (CRC). 24 March 2017 DETOX started for anti-Candida to help "re-set" my gut. April 2017 Gut Cleanse - 6 weeks.Plan to re-start taper (liquid Cipralex/Escitalopram)

#31 btdt

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 07:06 PM

I agree that reumanating about WDS can keep you in a wave.
The most frustrating thing is when you start to feel better, you forget about WDS, but when it reappears it triggers anxiety and worsening of WDS.
It is like you are constantly being pulled down and reminded of the pain and suffering, when all you want to forget about the whole thing and move forward.
Moving forward is hard when you are being reminded of how you felt.

 

I am not sure.  I had a time in wd when I was in such a negative state I could not look at a wd site I was on the edge and I came to a realisation later that it was just a state of healing that was caused by wd that for me hit later in the process.  I do think seeking other options to heal at the time was a great help and during that seeking I found the book the power of now quite helpful. Tho I don't get this one so much. 

peace all


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#32 Lex2Nothing

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 08:55 AM

Oh WOW!  I've just listened to the audio book 'The Power of Now' this weekend.  Elkhart Toll and others like him i.e Ram Das, Tich Nhat Hahn, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield are kinda all in the same vein.  But there's no-one like Mr Tolle who can really describe panic attacks and depression and to so lovingly help people find the real gold inside themselves (even if its been buried for years under psych meds).  And I went to my second buddhist meditation yesterday!  And due to insomnia, fell down this 'web hole' and instead of chasing the rabbit, it looks like I'm here for some serious 'Turtle' training.  This is my very first post on any website ever.  So things are getting a bit different for me now.  Slow is fast, fast is smooth.  I commiserate with anyone tapering off 'side -Effexor'.  That stuff sure is straight from some Big Pharma's bottom.  I'm tapering off Lexapro: went too hard too fast last week got down to 7.5mg from 20mg .  Yep, if it wasn't for the wisdom of the authors and teachers aforementioned and reinstating to 15mg.  I would be in a fetal position, not eating, not bathing, Just riding endless ghost trains of negative thoughts.  I've been on AD's for 22 years now and my anger at being stooged by doctors and pharmaceutical villains is like nuclear waste sometimes, so toxic, poisonous.  And I'm aware that that's unhelpful.  And I'm aware that I'm aware of that and it can just drive me deeper into a waste land of despair.  But with practice I can catch the thoughts sometimes and say to myself 'oh there goes an express train of thought to Hells-ville, do I want to board that or not?'  I'm blown away by what I've read on this website thus far.  I don't feel so small, separate and alone with this AD withdrawal thing.  Like I read the posts and go OMG me too.  Well its 3am here in the southern hemisphere and I better try and look at the back of my eyelids.  Thank you everybody, thank you to the  person/people who have initiated this site.  I feel like I just got a sweet letter to my soul.

 

yours in tapering solidarity Lex2Nothing



#33 Rockingchaircat

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:54 AM

I agree that reumanating about WDS can keep you in a wave.
The most frustrating thing is when you start to feel better, you forget about WDS, but when it reappears it triggers anxiety and worsening of WDS.
It is like you are constantly being pulled down and reminded of the pain and suffering, when all you want to forget about the whole thing and move forward.
Moving forward is hard when you are being reminded of how you felt.

Yes.


1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 


#34 btdt

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 08:41 AM

Oh WOW!  I've just listened to the audio book 'The Power of Now' this weekend.  Elkhart Toll and others like him i.e Ram Das, Tich Nhat Hahn, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield are kinda all in the same vein.  But there's no-one like Mr Tolle who can really describe panic attacks and depression and to so lovingly help people find the real gold inside themselves (even if its been buried for years under psych meds).  And I went to my second buddhist meditation yesterday!  And due to insomnia, fell down this 'web hole' and instead of chasing the rabbit, it looks like I'm here for some serious 'Turtle' training.  This is my very first post on any website ever.  So things are getting a bit different for me now.  Slow is fast, fast is smooth.  I commiserate with anyone tapering off 'side -Effexor'.  That stuff sure is straight from some Big Pharma's bottom.  I'm tapering off Lexapro: went too hard too fast last week got down to 7.5mg from 20mg .  Yep, if it wasn't for the wisdom of the authors and teachers aforementioned and reinstating to 15mg.  I would be in a fetal position, not eating, not bathing, Just riding endless ghost trains of negative thoughts.  I've been on AD's for 22 years now and my anger at being stooged by doctors and pharmaceutical villains is like nuclear waste sometimes, so toxic, poisonous.  And I'm aware that that's unhelpful.  And I'm aware that I'm aware of that and it can just drive me deeper into a waste land of despair.  But with practice I can catch the thoughts sometimes and say to myself 'oh there goes an express train of thought to Hells-ville, do I want to board that or not?'  I'm blown away by what I've read on this website thus far.  I don't feel so small, separate and alone with this AD withdrawal thing.  Like I read the posts and go OMG me too.  Well its 3am here in the southern hemisphere and I better try and look at the back of my eyelids.  Thank you everybody, thank you to the  person/people who have initiated this site.  I feel like I just got a sweet letter to my soul.

 

yours in tapering solidarity Lex2Nothing

Welcome to SA 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#35 dowdaller

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 12:35 PM

I am a year off effexor, I wouldnt have got this far without tolle and jon kabat zinn, at the moment I am going through a sticky patch, I have gone back to reading, zinn. When I am okay I can easily put myself in the watcher position. But when my head is full of ocd thoughts I struggle to put in the days. I am determined to keep going and trying to practice living in the now.
I am off all meds 16 months I had been on olanzapine, Effexor zanex and assorted sleeping meds for approx 2 years.
Weaned off 375 mg effexor over two years, I had previously come off xanax, rivotrill and olazapine. Reinstated 75mg of effexor on the 22/12/16

#36 DrugfreeProf

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 04:36 PM

I read Eckhart Tolle's books, The Power of Now and A New Earth, shortly after my oldest daughter passed on in 2007 due to suicide. (I have recently realized she probably became suicidal due to the introduction of several different antidepressants over a short period of time.) Those books and Eckhart's lectures saved my life and sanity.  I also began to meditate and practice acceptance. I highly recommend this material for coping with withdrawal symptoms, if you can wrap your mind around them--and I can understand if sometimes that is just too hard to do. But it is great stuff. Acceptance is key; when you accept suffering, it is no longer suffering but instead is pain. There is a difference. Suffering is a rejection of what is; pain is just pain. I know--it's easy to say and hard to do.


Drugfree Prof

Psychologist and Psychotherapist

Prozac 20 mg for approx 3 months during 2000, withdrew, no w/d sx

Prozac 10 - 30 mg Jan. 2008 - Dec. 2014

Ritalin 30-40 mg Jan. 2008 - Mar. 2015

W/d sx from Prozac started around 3 months after cessation--crying spells, depressed mood, lethargy; resolved in 8 - 12 mos. post cessation

Used and continue to use a TON of alternative methods--meditation, mindfulness, nutrition. supplements, exercise, etc.






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