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Chronic Fatigue Syndrome


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Very interesting series of articles by Amy Dockser Marcus in the Wall Street Journal on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The articles are centered on the conflict between the establishment research community and increasingly informed and organized patients. There are striking parallels between that ailment community and ours in regard to the struggle to get recognition and help. The articles might make your blood boil, but they are also very validating of the importance of sites like SA, and the crucial role of patient advocacy in shaping research.

 

A few highlights -- Clusters of an unidentified syndrome started popping up as early as 1934, but there was a spate of clusters in the 1980s. The syndrome is characterized by varying symptoms, but with a core symptom set of extreme fatigue, severe memory and cognitive impairment, and severe muscle fatiguability. (It sure looks like there is a neurological component.) There is still no firm way to diagnose the syndrome; it is diagnosed by ruling out everything else!

 

For a long, long time, and even now, CFS has been considered by many in the establishment to be a purely psychological disorder. CFS patients have been very angered by this. (Compare it to our being told w/d: "is the return of your original condition.")

 

In 1989, Dr. Elaine DeFreitas found that 2/3 of 30 CFS subjects she studied carried a retrovirus named XMRV. The CDC could not replicate her study and her findings were discredited. Research on XMRV stopped and researchers focused on basic, non-clinical research (and saying it was purely psychological). CFS patients got very mad about this, too.

 

In 2009, a study led by the Whittemore Peterson Institute was published in Science that found XMRV in 67% of 101 CFS patients. This publication set the CFS world on fire. Patients have been frustrated and suspicious about the lack of movement on XMRV in the research community. There have been harsh words between patient advocates and researchers at conferences and online.

 

From what I've gleaned, it seems likely that XMRV is not the only factor in causing CFS. It may take several factors coming together to produce CFS. And, if you get enough of those factors together, you might not need even the presence of XMRV to cause CFS. Also, XMRV is one of a family of retroviruses, and it might be that other members of that family can also cause CFS.

 

So, yeah, it's complicated. But it's shocking that the huge 1989 research finding withered on the vine. What happened? Why? We can certainly relate to the frustration and suspicion as we slog forward trying to establish the existence and severity of our own syndrome.

 

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704005404576176823580854478.html

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704008704575639193973468402.html

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703858404576214443015558976.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...

1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...

2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...

Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms

Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended

Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

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  • 2 years later...

I was just looking at a chronic fatigue site and thought I would look here to see if there was anything new... one thing I can tell you they treat this disorder with so many different drugs it is a field day for pharma....

 

Xanax (alprazolam)
Restoril(temazepam)
Klonopin (clonazepam)
Sleep sustainers Elavil, Endep (amitriptyline)
Sinequan (doxepin)
Desyrel(trazodone)
Remeron (mirtazapine)
Zanaflex (tizanidine)
Flexeril (cyclobenzaprine)
Neurontin (gabapentin)
Sleep initiators & sustainers
Anticonvulsants
Used in CFS as mood stabilizers 
or for pain relief and sleep
Lamictal (lamotrigine)
Depakote (divalproex sodium)
Neurontin (gabapentin)
Topamax (topiramate)
Lyrica (pregabalin)
Stimulants
Used in CFS for wakefulness 
and mental acuity Provigil (modafinil)
Adderall (amphetamine salts)
Ritalin (methylphenidate)
Strattera (atomoxetine)
Xyrem (sodium oxybate)
Muscle Relaxants
Used in CFS for pain, sleep Zanaflex (tizanidine)
Flexeril(cyclobenzaprine)
Skelaxin (metaxalone)
Robaxin (methocarbamol)
Norflex (orphenadrine)
Ambien (zolpidem)
Sonata (zaleplon)
Lunesta (eszopiclone)
ProSom (estazolam)
Antidepressants
SSRI class of antidepressants Prozac (fluoxetine)
Zoloft(sertraline)
Paxil (paroxetine)
Celexa (citalopram)
Lexapro (escitalopram)
SNRI class of antidepressants Effexor (venlafaxine)
Cymbalta (duloxetine)
Wellbutrin (buproprion)
Tricyclic class of antidepressants
Treats multiple symptoms; 
may help with mood, sleep and pain
Elavil, Endep (amitriptyline)
Sinequan (doxepin)
Norpramin (desipramine)
Receptor antagonist class 
of antidepressants Desyrel(trazodone)
Remeron (mirtazapine)
Restless Legs Syndrome
Requip (ropinirole)
Mirapex (pramipexole)
Sinemet (carbidopa-levodopa)
Orthostatic Intolerance
Florinef (fludrocortisone)
ProAmatine (midodrine)
Tenormin (atenolol)
Analgesics (Pain Relief)
Nonsteroidal 
anti-inflammatory Advil/Motrin (ibuprofen)
Aleve (naproxen)
Mobic (meloxicam)
Cox II inhibitors Celebrex (celecoxib)
Analgesic Tylenol (acetaminophen)
Short-acting narcotics/opiates Darvocet-N (propoxyphene)
Various brands containing
oxycodone, codeine or
hydrocodone
Long-acting narcotics/opiates MS Contin (morphine sulfate)
Kadian (morphine sulfate) 
Avinza (morphine sulfate)
Duragesic (fentanyl 
transdermal patch)
Narcotic-like analgesics Ultram (tramadol)
Ultracet (tramadol with 
acetaminophen)
Topical Lidoderm (lidocaine 
transdermal patch)
 
Can you say cha ching.... 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 2 months later...

Very interesting series of articles by Amy Dockser Marcus in the Wall Street Journal on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The articles are centered on the conflict between the establishment research community and increasingly informed and organized patients. There are striking parallels between that ailment community and ours in regard to the struggle to get recognition and help. The articles might make your blood boil, but they are also very validating of the importance of sites like SA, and the crucial role of patient advocacy in shaping research. A few highlights -- Clusters of an unidentified syndrome started popping up as early as 1934, but there was a spate of clusters in the 1980s. The syndrome is characterized by varying symptoms, but with a core symptom set of extreme fatigue, severe memory and cognitive impairment, and severe muscle fatiguability. (It sure looks like there is a neurological component.) There is still no firm way to diagnose the syndrome; it is diagnosed by ruling out everything else! For a long, long time, and even now, CFS has been considered by many in the establishment to be a purely psychological disorder. CFS patients have been very angered by this. (Compare it to our being told w/d: "is the return of your original condition.") In 1989, Dr. Elaine DeFreitas found that 2/3 of 30 CFS subjects she studied carried a retrovirus named XMRV. The CDC could not replicate her study and her findings were discredited. Research on XMRV stopped and researchers focused on basic, non-clinical research (and saying it was purely psychological). CFS patients got very mad about this, too. In 2009, a study led by the Whittemore Peterson Institute was published in Science that found XMRV in 67% of 101 CFS patients. This publication set the CFS world on fire. Patients have been frustrated and suspicious about the lack of movement on XMRV in the research community. There have been harsh words between patient advocates and researchers at conferences and online. From what I've gleaned, it seems likely that XMRV is not the only factor in causing CFS. It may take several factors coming together to produce CFS. And, if you get enough of those factors together, you might not need even the presence of XMRV to cause CFS. Also, XMRV is one of a family of retroviruses, and it might be that other members of that family can also cause CFS. So, yeah, it's complicated. But it's shocking that the huge 1989 research finding withered on the vine. What happened? Why? We can certainly relate to the frustration and suspicion as we slog forward trying to establish the existence and severity of our own syndrome. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704005404576176823580854478.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704008704575639193973468402.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703858404576214443015558976.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The earliest outbreak if you want to call it that was associated with polio vaccine.  

Since then it is hit and miss.  

Drugs can damage the mitochondria maybe virus' and whatever else can too. 

I know I was dx with it when I was also in what I now know to be prozac withdrawal... are they that much alike that withdrawal and chronic fatigue they could be misdiagnosed I do wonder.  Do they have a common denominator... is it mitochondria?  I don't know they sure seem to be very much alike in some cases. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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possible  common denominator 

 

http://drmyhill.co.u...ondrial_Failure

 

Introduction

I think this is one of the most important handouts I have ever produced in terms of my understanding of CFS and what to do in order to recover! So please read this very carefully and several times over because for many sufferers it contains the keys to unlock their illness!

A very useful analogy is to think of the body as a car. What supplies the energy and the power to make that car work is the engine. Effectively mitochondria are the engines of our cells - they supply the energy necessary for all cellular processes to take place.

We are made up of lots of different cells - heart, blood, muscle nerve cells etc. All these cells are different because they all have a different job of work to do. To do this job of work requires energy. But the way in which energy is supplied is the same for every cell in the body. Indeed all animals share this same system. The mitochondria in my dog, my cat and my horse are exactly the same as mine. Mitochondria are a common biological unit across the animal kingdom. Energy is supplied to cells by mitochondria which I think of as little engines which power every cell in the body.

Chronic fatigue syndrome is the symptom caused by mitochondrial failure

The job of mitochondria is to supply energy in the form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). This is the universal currency of energy. It can be used for all sorts of biochemical jobs from muscle contraction to hormone production. When mitochondria fail, this results in poor supply of ATP, so cells go slow because they do not have the energy supply to function at a normal speed. This means that all bodily functions go slow.

Every cell in the body can be affected

The following explains what happens inside each cell:

ATP (3 phosphates) is converted to ADP (2 phosphates) with the release of energy for work. ADP passes into the mitochondria where ATP is remade by oxidative phosphorylation (ie a phosphate group is stuck on). ATP recycles approximately every 10 seconds in a normal person - if this goes slow, then the cell goes slow and so the person goes slow and clinically has poor stamina ie CFS.

Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it, (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!) ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled. This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP -1 phosphate). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine.

Indeed this is the biological basis of poor stamina. One can only go at the rate at which mitochondria can produce ATP. If mitochondria go slow, stamina is poor.

If ATP levels drop as a result of leakage of AMP, the body then has to make brand new ATP. ATP can be made very quickly from a sugar D-ribose, but D-ribose is only slowly made from glucose (via the pentose phosphate shunt for those clever biochemists out there!). This takes anything from one to four days. So this is the biological basis for delayed fatigue.

However there is another problem. If the body is very short of ATP, it can make a very small amount of ATP directly from glucose by converting it into lactic acid. This is exactly what many CFS sufferers do and indeed we know that CFS sufferers readily switch into anaerobic metabolism. However this results in two serious problems - lactic acid quickly builds up especially in muscles to cause pain, heaviness, aching and soreness ("lactic acid burn"), secondly no glucose is available in order to make D-ribose! So new ATP cannot be easily made when you are really run down. Recovery takes days!

When mitochondria function well, as the person rests following exertion, lactic acid is quickly converted back to glucose (via-pyruvate) and the lactic burn disappears. But this is an energy requiring process! Glucose to lactic acid produces two molecules of ATP for the body to use, but the reverse process requires six molecules of ATP. If there is no ATP available, and this is of course what happens as mitochondria fail, then the lactic acid may persist for many minutes, or indeed hours causing great pain. (for the biochemists, this reverse process takes place in the liver and is called the Cori cycle).

 

much more at the site I don't think it is the article I was looking for but it is a good article non the less... much more at the link.  

Many drugs can damage your mitochondria... many
 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 1 year later...

and drugs that damage the gut like all we take set us up for CFS 

 

Giardia contaminates streams and lakes throughout North America and has caused epidemics of diarrheal disease in several small cities by contaminating their drinking water. One epidemic, in Placerville, California, was followed by an epidemic of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which swept through the town's residents at the time of the Giardia epidemic. Possibly, this epidemic was due to failure of some people to eradicate the parasite. In 1991, my colleagues and I published a study of 96 patients with chronic fatigue and demonstrated active Giardiainfection in 46 per cent.

 

http://www.crohns.net/miva/education/articles/powerhealing_leogalland.shtml

 

There is the case where ss serotonin syndrome was miss dx as chronic fatigue/fibo... 

so too much serotonin can look the same as fibro it on SA some place cause I put it here but I can't find it today

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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may as well put this one with it too 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6722-auto-immune-diseases-triggered-by-ssri-withdrawal/

 

I feel like we are still missing a few....help

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been told in the past that CFS was an auto immune disorder or suspected to be one...

 

Auto Immune diseases triggered by SSRI Withdrawal

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6722-auto-immune-diseases-triggered-by-ssri-withdrawal/

 

when hitting tolerance on Effexor I was sick with one virus or infection after the other for a year or more makes me thinks hard about how ssri drugs affect our immune system.  Not that anyone can sort it as all the data there is has a pharma ownership stamp on it and as such is hidden away in vaults waiting for them to capitalize on it one day.

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

It may all be part of something bigger called TILT

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11355-tilt-includes-fibro-and-multiple-chemical-sensitivity/

 

 “Toxicant-induced Loss of Tolerance,” and it indeed represents a breakdown in the body's natural tolerance.

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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The person who does this blog says she as AD induced Chronic Fatigue

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/13/can-antidepressants-cause-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

 

just some of what is in the blog..

How Antidepressants Can Cause Chronic Fatigue Syndrome…

Below are some ways by which antidepressants may contribute to the development of chronic fatigue.  Understand that since each person is unique, an interplay of these potential causes (to varying degrees) is very likely.

  • Adrenal mining: Some people believe that certain antidepressants (e.g. Paxil) are capable of essentially “mining” the adrenal glands while taking them. This is one theory as to why the Paxil poops out (or stops working) because the adrenal glands become fatigued and no longer make adequate cortisol to maintain alertness. This can lead people to feel tired while still taking the medication and the fatigue can persist for a long period until the adrenals have been given sufficient time to recover.
  • Chemical imbalance: It is known that antidepressants alter levels of various neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. They also indirectly alter the functioning of many others and the exact changes made in the brain aren’t really well-known. The fact that manyantidepressants can cause a chemical imbalance and actually deplete various neurochemicals over time could lead to fatigue.
  • Gut microbiome: There is significant evidence suggesting that antidepressants significantly alter the gut flora and are capable of causing microbial dysfunction within your gut. When your gut bacteria becomes disturbed and significantly altered, this can lead to numerous physiological responses, one of which is fatigue.
  • Hormone alterations: It is thought that levels of various hormones become altered with psychotropic treatment. Some believe thatantidepressants lower testosterone levels, change leptin production, as well as cortisol. Although there isn’t much evidence suggesting how antidepressants affect hormone levels over the long-term, it is likely that they could cause an imbalance.
  • Motivational deficit: Taking antidepressants can make people feel emotionally numb and decrease their motivation. This is often referred to as emotional blunting or “apathy” and is a common experience. It can turn you into an amotivational zombie because you don’t have any emotion to support the motivation.
  • Sedation: A very common effect of antidepressants is that they make people feel sedated and/or drowsy as a side effect. If you find yourself sleeping a bunch while taking the drug, it could be that the alteration of certain neurotransmitters is making you excessively fatigued. This is very common among drugs that affect serotonin as well as histamine.

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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I was looking at somatostatin one of those little clues I have been chasing for 10 years that keeps disappearing... 

these drugs change it maybe via oxytocin change... which affects bonding and how we treat stangers as friends on some drugs... celexa by the looks of it

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002130050867

 

somatostatin is also involved in fibromyalgia... just another clue likely it will disappear too... yes I am belly aching. 

Medication:                Pyridostigmine bromide/Mestinon    
Usage:                         normalizes growth hormone response to exercise 
Common Dosage:      60-180 mg
Mode of Action:         initiate calcium influx and release of acetylcholine
References:                Paiva E, Deodhar A, Jones K, Bennett R. Impaired growth hormone secretion in fibromyalgia patients evidence for augmented hypothalamic somatostatin tone. Arthritis and Rheumatism 2002; 

http://www.nfra.net/fibromyalgia_meds.htm

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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A rather tricky way of getting to the last post... bile is part of the detox system our body goes thru... drugs that damage the gallbladder system damage our ability to detox.  

 

Secreted by your liver and stored in your gall bladder between meals, bile is a complex fluid that :1

  1. Contains bile acids that are essential for your digestion and absorption of fats and fat-soluble vitamins, as well as aiding your digestion of proteins and starches.
  2. Regulates your intestines’ level of friendly bacteria and yeast, the good microflora that keep you healthy and strong.
  3. Destroys unwanted and dangerous organisms as they invade your body.
  4. Encourages peristaltic action in your intestines to help fecal matter move through and out of your body.
  5. Is a critical part of your body’s detoxification process. Your liver uses bile as a way to get rid of all kinds of waste products through the secretion of bile. Your body then eliminates both bile and waste products, helping your liver cleanse.

http://bodyecology.com/articles/why_proper_bile_flow_essential_for_getting_rid_of_toxins.php

 

Gall bladder sludge can develop after fasting, rapid weight loss, certain medication, a high cholesterol level, drug or alcohol damage,  or pregnancy.

http://www.mcvitamins.com/gallbladder.htm

 

Makes me wonder if bile salts could help detox the body of a person with no gall bladder or one that is not functioning well?  

 

found my beets I use when I feel bad..:)

Other Supplements That Help

Taking bile supplements can be one part of your regimen for digestive health, but there are several others supplements that may be helpful as well.

  • Calcium Carbonate – if you think that calcium is only for strong bones, think again. Calcium carbonate is commonly used to control the symptoms of diarrhea, and may be a great companion to deal with the side effect of bile salts.
  • Fiber – not only will fiber absorb water and firm up the stool, it may also work as a digestive sweep; aiding in the digestion of fats and eliminating toxins.
  • Probiotics – another great key to digestive health is probiotics. Made up of “good bacteria” commonly found in the intestinal tract, probiotics help maintain balance in the intestinal tract. They have been found helpful in dealing with gas and other digestive issues.
  • Betaine – This is a supplement made from beets, and aid in the breakdown of fats, just as bile salts do. If you are experiencing constant diarrhea, swap the bile salts for betaine instead.
  • Choline – Another aid in digestion. Choline supplements help absorb excess cholesterol and fats. They also help with the liver. Many people take bile salts and choline together, as they work well with each other.

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Here fibro is said to have many causes so many it is hard to believe one of them is drug or alcohol withdrawal... and changes in serotonin allele....yes I am cherry picking read it all for yourself here

http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/medicalpubs/diseasemanagement/rheumatology/fibromyalgia-syndrome/

"Inheritance of a short allele of the serotonin transporter promoter gene has taken serotonin metabolism to center stage

Box 1: Conditions Commonly Associated with Fibromyalgia Cognitive dysfunction Cold intolerance Dizziness Dysautonomia Endocrine dysfunction Interstitial cystitis Irritable bladder syndrome Irritable bowel syndrome Migraine headaches Multiple chemical sensitivities Myofascial pain syndrome Sicca symptoms Temporomandibular joint dysfunction

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Prevalence

The prevalence of FMS in the general community is 2% for both genders. Women are affected more than men; the prevalence is 3.4% for women and 0.5 % for men. The prevalence increases with age, reaching 7% in women ages 60 to 79 years.4

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Pathophysiology

A heightened pain response is present in patients with FMS. This is now known to be caused by altered processing of nociceptive stimuli by the central nervous system.5,6 Levels of substance P and abnormal antinociceptive peptides are elevated in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with FMS.7 FMS might be best understood as a heightened response of the entire nervous system, as if the volume has been turned up.8,9 Inheritance of a short allele of the serotonin transporter promoter gene has taken serotonin metabolism to center stage and suggests a possible heritable mechanism in the pathogenesis of FMS.10 Other studies have postulated serotonin deficiency as a pathophysiologic mechanism in FMS.11 A group of excitatory amino acids—l-tryptophan, alanine, histidine, lysine, proline and serine, to name a few—are also decreased in the spinal fluid in patients with FMS.12

Although some reports have suggested that muscle tissue is normal in FMS, others have found increased moth-eaten and ragged red type I and type II fiber atrophy on light microscopy.13,14 Other clinicians have found myofibril lysis or swollen abnormal mitochondria on electron microscopy.13,14 However, it is unclear whether these changes are due to deconditioning or to FMS itself.2

Slow-wave sleep abnormalities are also present, and a significantly increased amount of alpha-wave intrusion into delta-wave sleep during non–rapid eye movement (non-REM) sleep is responsible for more awakenings and other symptoms of nonrestorative sleep. Sleep apnea and restless legs syndrome, nocturnal myoclonus, and bruxism have been reported in some studies. 2 Severe dysautonomia, or reflex sympathetic dystrophy, coexists with FMS and is believed by some clinicians to be a subtype of FMS. 2

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WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 2 months later...

It appears to me today that this should be part of the mcs multiple chemical sensitivity or TILT threads they are all so much alike are they the same is the question there is a new theory that these are all related and perhaps there will be sub categories once it is better understood. 

 

I am starting to think it maybe one thing that a person either recovers from or it moves along a continuum getting worse over time if care is not taken and things to relieve it not found.

 

Personally I started off with chronic fatigue/fibro dx after a run in with prozac now seem to have moved up the scale to MCS...

 

That does not mean I don't have other issues I recently spent a wk in bed too tired to move expecting to be ill but no fever cough or any sort of illness showed nadda.

 

I think they are related and have recently been offered the usual drugs

 

I just read a link to the treatment from a CFS website so many of the drugs have horrible side effects which compromise cognitive health some are ssri drugs... as usually some are anti seizure drugs... one is an antimalaria drug... it seems crazy to me to pay for all these pills rather than study the disorder.. or disorder to find out what the cause is...honestly I was first dx in 1994 ... decades of past and still no news on a real treatment is there no will or no money I don't know.

 

if you want to read the treatments listed here is the link

 http://solvecfs.org/treatment-fyi-controlling-pain/

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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The other chronic fatigue thread here at SA for me it starts here just to join some dots for people who may be new

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6175-limbic-kindling-hardwiring-the-brain-for-hypersensitivity/

 

 

eventually I ended up here given my life experiences

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11355-tilt-includes-fibro-and-multiple-chemical-sensitivity/?hl=tilt

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

New twist on a bunch of old things... suspected to be at least part of the cause of many problems... 

 

"It doesn’t take long to see that the symptoms of Mycoplasma infections are very similar to the symptoms of  Borrelia infections in chronic Lyme disease.   Dr. Nicolson has looked at some of the more common  neurodegenerative diseases and the infections that are associated with each.  Mycoplasma is commonly found  n patients with ALS, Multiple Sclerosis, Autism, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic  sthma, Lyme disease, and many other chronic disease conditions. "

 

this is an interesting story is it true I am not up to doing the research to find out.. I hope at least he is a real scientist...

http://www.immed.org/infectious%20disease%20reports/infectdiseasereport06.11.09update/pha_nicolson_0709_v4.07.pdf

 

he states the coverup and lack of tests and treatment for many disorders is because it was developed by the army as weapons and got out... so to keep it a secret they let folks suffer... and die could it be.. frig I don't know 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

So that last post and this one too may be a bit like sci fi... but there is a study going on if any with a cfs dx wants in... you can find it here..

http://www.gcmafresearch.com/macrophages.html

 

Future research initiatives

We are interested to hear from patients or doctors who may want to be considered for part or fully funded GcMAF protein therapy for any auto immune illness such as:

Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV), Hepatitis B virus (HCV), Herpes Simplex virus (HSV), Cystitis, Hepatitis C virus (HBV), Tuberculosis, Urinary tract infection (UTI), Pneumonia infection, Endometriosis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Lyme disease, IgA deficiency disorder, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME), Mycobacteria infections, Influenza virus, Multiple sclerosis (MS), Fibromyalgia, Parkinson's disease, Lupus.

 

 

Important notice to participants

We provide you with general information but we cannot advise or enter into correspondence about individual cases.

We do not arrange, provide or facilitate treatments and we shall not be responsible for the outcome of any treatment or failure to diagnose or treat. With any medical condition, a doctors advice should be sought.

We recommend that you advise your doctor that you are/or intend to stimulate the immune system via macrophages activation which, in most cases, will result in an immune response. About 15% do not respond to this therapy and in those cases nothing happens.

 

I know most here if not all are done being lab rats... but you just never know what desperation may push a person to try. 

reading the studies listed they are mostly in cancer treatment but there are others.  Some are about bones and different areas many include some incidence of Vit D... which I personally find interesting. 

 

http://www.gcmafresearch.com/published-medical-journals.html

Summary: This study shows that the lack of GcMAF which is the activating factor for both macrophages and osteoclasts can be attributed to the inability of the osteopetrosis patient to generate the glycosidases which convert gcprotein to gcmaf.

 

 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • Mentor

I believe this is totally true btdt.           This mycoplasma  borrelia,  is a man made one that escaped the lab.           It was originally designed as a bioweapon, and tested in tics etc, as a method of dispersal.             Too late now, even cattle, horses, and an estimate is that 80% of people in the USA have it now. 

 

Very similar to the syphillis spirochette,  but with a bit added.    Assumed to be spread sexually.  Also a contaminant in all the vaccines  (this mycoplasma is so small, it can not be filtered out of the vaccines during manufacture).

 

People used to live happily until their 80s, 90s, or beyond.   Now we are all crippled, getting alzeimers, by our 50s.     

 

Not only are our immune systems completely destroyed by all these vaccines, gmos, pesticides.    Now we have a mycoplasma infection, called Lyme borrellia,  and a few others,  ie fermantans  (gulf war syndrome)....  mad scientists USA, with too much money, and not enough commonsense.                                   

 

One has to remember,  a lot of Nazi, scientists, were brought to USA to work.         They had no choice,  you work for us, or we hang you.     I have heard of some of these scientists purposely messing up,  called revenge.  The man who ran the Plum Island research centre,  years ago, yes another of these relocated Nazi scientists,    was this the ultimate revenge?

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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  • Mentor

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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Hey ang, would you post that link again and provide a comment about it?  It would be helpful to know the title of the paper/article, what it's about and why you think it is interesting and relevant to this topic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Hey ang, would you post that link again and provide a comment about it?  It would be helpful to know the title of the paper/article, what it's about and why you think it is interesting and relevant to this topic.

I know you did not ask me but the link provided gives all but Ang's possible comment.  Given her expertise I too would like to hear from her on possible treatments. 

 

When I try to copy any parts of the article to this page it will not post correctly but you can read it all at the link Ang provided I just did. 

 

this is the title and how it posts

 

Mar-03-2013 16:30

 

Mycoplasma the LinkingPathogen in NeurosystemicDiseases

Donald W. Scott, MA, MSc Special to Salem-News.com

News.com

Sub-header:  Article from 2001 about pathogenic Mycoplasma andbiological warfare is highly revealing to say the least!!!

Edited by scallywag
edited font size, removed text that didn't transfer well

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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