Terry4949: withdrawal help

[Terry4949]

I have changed over to liquid form of mirtazapine and in the space of 2 days I have gone right back to square one , I woke at 4 am shaking trembling sweating , body full of nervousness agitation , hot and cold spells , all these symptoms had nearly gone over the last six months , now they are back in full force , I know it's high levels of cortisol and adrenalin but it's just horrible , I don't think I can handle another 6months of this , 3 years of hell and no rest bite , I thought that getting of these meds would have a positive effect on me but the suffering is unbearable , I have followed the advice on the forums but it has not helped , I feel like going back on my full dose , but to be honest it has done nothing for my depression and mood ,

[Fresh]

Terry , please stop starting new topics. Find your thread and post there.

 

Thanks ,

[Terry4949]

So sorry I keep forgetting ,

[Fresh]

I will keep reminding you. Can you get any more tablets?

We talked about this possible hiccup , you haven't gone back to square 1 at all. I'm sorry it's so rough.

 

If you can get any tablets , going back onto them is the quickest way out from here. It definitely will pass Terry.

 

If you stay on liquid , this may settle in the next few days.

[Terry4949]

I hope so , I don't think I can take much more of this high anxiety and physical symptoms , I just wish I could find some sort of stable level which would make me feel better so that I could withdraw slowly without feeling so bad every time I make a reduction , I have to get of this med as it makes me feel ill , but if it takes me a year to withdraw its another year of hell , for some people they get waves and Windows , I don't seem to get the Windows which it makes it worse because if you get a window you are given a glimmer of hope that you will get better , I look people's history's and see that many people are stable and then reduce slowly , I think it is much harder when you have no stability ,

[Fresh]

For sure , but there's no point rushing through it if that causes your whole system to destabilize entirely.

 

Not one to say "I told you so" , but I have to ask what made you decide to do a 25% cut (30mg to 22.5mg) ?

Is it because you could take 3/4 of a tablet?

[Terry4949]

i have been taking one 15mg tablet and have been taking half a 15 mg tablet for a month now , so now on liquid dose 22.5mg so have not dropped the dose anymore just switch to liquid ready for my next cut ,if that makes any sense ,

[Fresh]

Yes , makes total sense. Can you go to a hospital and get an emergency supply of tablets? Simak did the same thing recently , and when he went back on the tablets things settled very quickly.

[SquirrellyGirl]

I agree with Fresh, to get ahold of some tablets.  As I said, going back on dry fixed me up.  If liquid titrating is in your future then you would then do a cross taper over to the same amount of liquid. 

 

I understand your frustration entirely.  It really sucks that we went on these meds without any warning of what would happen to our nervous systems, never imagining that coming off would be so difficult and take so long.  We all thought it would be like taking aspirin; if we decided we didn't want the meds anymore we could just stop and go back to "normal."  They make us feel like crud on them but they make us feel even worse trying to come off, and it just isn't fair! Probably every one of us on SA has struggled with this.  Probably most of us here were on the sensitive end of things and HAD to do the 10% taper or less, even, despite our wish to go faster.  Our impatience and frustration about how long it will take won't help it not be true, though.  All we do is increase our suffering by agonizing over it.  Our troubling thoughts increase our suffering and we have a choice whether or not to have them.

 

So, see about getting some tablets, Terry, and get back on the dry form.  You are still pretty high up in dosage to where dry cutting using a milligram scale shouldn't be too difficult.  You will need one to do the cross taper anyway, if you decide to switch to the liquid sooner than later, so that you can weigh the amounts you take dry.  I dry cut down to 14 mg and then switched to liquid, cross-tapering.  You will get through this.  

 

And we will continue to support you along the way.  I'm truly sorry it has been such a rough ride so far, but if you can get the dosing straightened out to where you can make even smaller cuts, there's no reason that tapering should continue to be difficult for you.

 

SG

[Terry4949]

Thank you for your support squirrellygirl I have now got some more tablets so hope to stabilise soon

[Terry4949]

I am currently withdrawing from remeron and am finding life pretty tough I am going to start withdrawing from my pregablin as well I am on 200mg a day , I think that the pregablin is making me feel so numb and dizzy , so I am going to reduce them both together as , I figure that the time I reduce my remeron , and get of it it will mean that I will have to take the pregablin for another 2 years before I start my taper , and I can't wait that long , has anyone withdrawn from this combo together ,

[KarenB]

It's usually not recommended to taper two drugs at once, as it puts a lot of stress on your system. 

 

If you are determined to do so, then at very least you should wait until you are really stable again first - your last few posts indicate things have been difficult.

 

Rhi, one of the earlier moderators here did taper two drugs at once, but had to be extremely on-to-it with noting symptoms and listening in very carefully to her body.  It's not for the faint-hearted.  I can't find the thread where she discuss it - if another mod knows please direct us .

 

Karen

[SquirrellyGirl]

It's right here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1070-taper-more-than-one-drug-at-a-time/page-3#entry199549

 

Let's just say, Terry, that it is unlikely that you would be able to do 10% of both drugs at the same time.  I have been nudging my venlafaxine (Effexor) down ever so slowly as I do my mirtazapine taper, but if things get a little too rocky, I hold both, as I have been doing right now.

 

It takes as long as it takes.  True, not recommended to do one at a time, but many are impatient and go ahead and try.  Some do ok and others crash.  Those who crash come to acceptance that it will take as long as it takes and throw out the calendar.  We don't see as many posts from the ones who do ok with it :-)

 

I would definitely do as KarenB said and stabilize.  I'm glad you got ahold of some tablets and are feeling better!

 

SG

[SquirrellyGirl]

Oh, I'd like to add that before you attempt to taper two drugs, do one at a time for a few cycles so that you can see what your symptom pattern is from each.  That way, if certain symptoms crop up that seem to pertain to one or the other, you don't necessarily have to up-dose both.  Not sure-fire, but better than not having a clue about which is causing the problem.  Also, you will need to do extra holds now and again to be sure that your nervous system is truly caught up with the changes.

 

SG

[Terry4949]

The thing is I am not getting any waves or Windows , my depression constant anxiety ,daily crying spells , suicidel idealations , and all the other symptoms that are associated with w/d , have been present everyday for 3 years unrelenting ,

 

I don't ever have a stable point to start , if I were starting a drug I could associate this awfull symptoms to the medication , I feel like I am in constant withdrawel even when I am not withdrawing or reducing my meds , I have read so much information on this Webb site and have put so much into practise and yet I still find no relief , supplements like magnesium make me worse , fish oil upsets my stomache ,

 

I seem to have just run out of ideas , the only option I have is to get of all medication in hope that these horrible feelings go away , but to think that I will have to take another 3 to 4 years of withdrawing and feeling like this is impossible for me to take , some people are withdrawing from there a/d and are feeling ok and are doing a really slow taper so as not to disturb there nervous system and I can fully see and understand that , whilst others like myself find them selves in the withdrawel that meds can't treat as the wheels are all ready in motion , but I am not in that stable level to be able to think that going slowly will stabilise my body enough to help me through this ,

 

I believe that the drugs are making me so much worse , when my doctor took me of Effexor more or less cold turkey , I believe that I should not have been put on any medication as it has only done more damage to my body and brain , but I was not put on one drug but. 2 more both strong meds which again were stopped again ubruptly , furthering my spiral in to withdrawel hell .

 

I believe that this is the only site in the world that I can truly say understands what we sufferers go through , there is more information and true facts on here that you will find in any medical centre in the world , I just wish that I could see some sort of relief of any sort ,

[leahy]

I'm sorry you are suffering, Terry. Just want you to know I am thinking about you and wishing you well. 

[SquirrellyGirl]

Terry, you got worse with the liquid, and are back on dry now?  Are you doing any better back on the dry?  How did the liquid worsen your symptoms and have you seen any improvement?  Since you had a worsening with the liquid, I would not do any cutting of anything until you at least recover from the liquid attempt.  One thing at a time so you can see what is causing problems, if any.

 

How do your symptoms nowadays compare to how you were in Effexor poop-out?

 

SG

[Terry4949]

Thank you leahy for your kind words , squirrellygirl the liquid made it really unbearable , have felt slight less anxiety since returning to the tablets , when switched to the liquid became suicidal in hours , panic fear dread overwhelming , my symptoms are exactly the same as when the venalaxafine poopout , it's since that happened nothing has changed , as I have said in other post I had never suffered with depression untill poopout, about 3 years ago my anxiety went berserk for about 6 months that's when I knew poopout had begun , the doctor tried to increase it and my body just went into shock , and I just haven't recovered

[Fresh]

Hey Terry , there have been so many changes , it's going to take a good long while to catch up.

 

"Currently on 30mg mirtazapine appx 5 months , high anxiety, March cut dose 22.5 mg "

 

You know we don't suggest huge cuts like that , because you end up with worse symptoms. Now that

the aborted switch to liquid had messed things up , it's going to take a bit longer still.

 

I wish there were short-cuts , you know I do long holds and small cuts so as not to rock the boat.

It could be time to hunker down and focus on nutrition , mind control (mindfulness , relaxation)

until you recover.

[Altostrata]

i have been taking one 15mg tablet and have been taking half a 15 mg tablet for a month now , so now on liquid dose 22.5mg so have not dropped the dose anymore just switch to liquid ready for my next cut ,if that makes any sense ,

 

Terry, you can take a 15mg tablet and add liquid to that. Did your symptoms get worse after you cut to 22.5mg?

 

Did you make your own liquid? How are you measuring it?

 

What do you mean by "depression"?

 

When do you take your drugs? Please keep notes on paper about your daily symptom pattern, your drug dosages, and the times of your dosing.

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

[JanCarol]

Hey Terry - 

 

I am currently withdrawing from remeron and am finding life pretty tough I am going to start withdrawing from my pregablin as well I am on 200mg a day , I think that the pregablin is making me feel so numb and dizzy , so I am going to reduce them both together as , I figure that the time I reduce my remeron , and get of it it will mean that I will have to take the pregablin for another 2 years before I start my taper , and I can't wait that long , has anyone withdrawn from this combo together ,

 

Please put the pregabalin in your signature.  You were probably told it is a pain med, but it is another psych drug in the "anticonvulsant" "GABA" department.

 

Can you, as Alto suggested, switch the 7.5 mg part of your dose to liquid, and take the rest as dry?  To cross taper the liquid in?

 

It is criminal that the drug companies don't give us the dosages we need for tapering off properly!  It's also criminal that they set the "minimum dose" so high.  Sigh.

 

I'm so sorry you are suffering.  What are you doing to help ease your suffering?  Do you understand Neuro-emotion ?  Do you know what akathisia is?  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/32-akathisia-vs-restlessness-anxiety-agitation/

 

Have you cultivated any practices - like walking, or mindfulness - to help you cope with your suffering?  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

There are people here who have suffered extreme states, while not exactly like your own, at least very intense like yours.  And it does get better.  You can get better.   Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery (Toxic Antidepressants)

Edited July 6, 2016 by JanCarol
fix link

[Terry4949]

I have tried to put my meds in the drug interactions as advice by alto , but it does not recognise pregablin ,also tried it as Lycra , but still nothing , is there another name for this drug ,

 

alto the liquid that has been provided by my local medical centre and has been made up to 22.5mg and is supplied with a syringe , I take my meds as follows 22.5mg of remeron and 100mg of pregablin at 7.30 pm and 100mg of pregablin at 6.30am ,

 

when I say my depression , it is very low mood and the overwhelming feeling of not wanting to be here any more , hopelessness , is what I would discribe . I will try and up date my history can't seem to get the hang of what to do , thank you all for your replys

[Altostrata]

The spelling is pregabalin or Lyrica.

 

It's very possible the drugs are causing your low mood, plus you are worrying about it and adding to it. You will need to focus on managing it. Please see Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

[Terry4949]

Thanks alto , I will try the right spelling in the interactions , also when I click on the neuro emotion

link , it will not allow me to access any information can any one help

[ChessieCat]

Here it is:  neuro-emotions

[Hibari]

Hi Terry

 

I am also tapering Mirtazapine along with Lamictal and I'm sorry you are having a hard time. I know how scary that can be.

 

When I switched from the pill form of Mirtazapine to the liquid forn, I got an unexpected cut-meaning that going from solid to liquid is not an even switch. So on top of your bigger cut, you got an extra one as well.

 

During my taper, I found going below 30mgs was a harder drop. My body resisted and I bumped up and down a bit. Finally I reinstated a small amount and the let myself stabilize for a bit. I was then able to start my taper downward. My friend on this site Leahy and I call this the uh oh point. It's where a certain threshold is harder to go under We both learned that phrase here on SA.

 

Mirtazapine has cause me to cry in ways I never have before and other people coming off of it have felt the same way. I also have felt depressed and anxious during wd. It's one of the most powerful meds out there. I also have experienced good p ed iods like the one I am in now.

 

You will get through this. I take lots of baths, get acupuncture and read as many success stories as I can here and on the Beyond Meds site.

 

What will make you feel better will be unique to you.

 

Hang in there.

 

Hibari

[Terry4949]

I need advice from anyone who can help , I have been to my phyciatrist to day and they say I need to take something to help me with my withdrawel from mirtazapine , it's been 3 years now of constant anxiety and hell , and 15 months since I last took Effexor and the suffering has been unbearable,

 

the phyciatrist wanted me to try a small dose of Effexor 37.5mg to see if it would help lift this horrible feelings , but after 15 months I said no , she thinks that I need to take something to help me come of the mirtazapine so she wants me to start on a small dose of sertraline to see if it will help ease the hell in which I am going through , I have tried to educate her on withdrawel and it's horrendous side effects , but she says that I need to get better and feel better before I can withdraw from mirtazapine , as I don't experience Windows and waves just full on side effects I'm starting to think that maybe she is right ,

 

I just can't keep on fighting this every day , I know people on here have said they have felt really well on a/ds but if I take another med and it doesn't work then it is another drug that I have to withdraw from , she says sertraline is not as hard to withdraw from as a lot of other meds , mind you I don't think anything will be as hard as quitting Effexor , any words of wisdom would be appreciated

[SquirrellyGirl]

Terry, where are you at currently with the mirtazapine?  Still at 22.5?  Part or all liquid?  How do your symptoms compare now to before you made the cut to 22.5 mg?   Did you ever feel better on the mirtazapine?

 

There's been a lot of reckless tapering in your past so your nervous system is still reverberating from all of that with the citalopram in the mix as well. It sounds like none of what you took over the past since coming off of Effexor has made you feel better from Effexor WD, has it?  Could you review why you came off the mirt and quetiapine and citalopram?  Did any of those improve the situation?

 

I am skeptical that any AD will help, especially at the minimum dosages which would be way too much for your nervous system to handle.  I will put this to the mods in general to see what they can add.

 

SG

 

 

[Terry4949]

hi squirrellygirl thank you for your reply , I am still on 22.5mg of mirtazapine , tablet form , I have never ever felt better on the mirtazapine , and you are right none of the meds I have taken since coming of Effexor have helped , the doctors just kept changing them like sweets when I reported after a few weeks that there was no improvement and whilst on citolapram I was the worst ever

[SquirrellyGirl]

I have seen nothing good of citalopram - seems to be one of the nastier ones for start up side effects!

 

I am sorry that you are in this big ol' bind, Terry!  I know you are in that desperate place of feeling the need to DO something, and believe me, we who have been in protracted withdrawal have all been there.  Taking your woes to your p-doc triggers her to do the only thing she knows how to do - pull out the Rx pad.  

 

I guess what I'm wanting to know is how are you feeling compared to when you were still on 30 mg of mirt?  A 25% cut was too big for your already sensitized nervous system, and if you are feeling much worse still compared to before that cut, then perhaps a slight up-dose might help.  Waiting for other mods to chime in :-)

 

Yours is a tricky history and there are no cut and dry answers other than TIME, but it is what you do while in the waiting game that makes all the difference.   People in your situation get themselves worked up into a worse state with secondary fear/panic that "this will never end - it's got to stop - make it stop!" Those who come to peace with their withdrawal seem to settle down and feel better sooner.  It really is about Acceptance, not fighting against it. 

 

I found it helpful to think of my withdrawal symptoms as signs that healing was taking place.  You might find it helpful to read around on Bliss Frederick's website http://www.recovery-road.org.  She wrote a book called Recovery and Renewal that is very helpful.  We talk a lot about meditation and mindfulness.  It's all about nurturing yourself through this process.  Monica Cassini's website BeyondMeds.com is also really helpful in this regard.

 

Again, I'm sorry that you have found yourself in this tricky place!

 

SG

[Petunia]

Hi Terry,

I'm so sorry you are in this situation, I wish I knew what to suggest, but my feeling is that adding any new drug carries a great risk of making you even worse than you already are.

 

My own experience is fairly similar to yours in that I tapered off an antidepressant too fast, found myself in protracted withdrawal and tried to manage the withdrawal symptoms with other drugs. I was trying to do this for over two years until I found this site and learned from the information and advice here. I was just making myself worse and worse by trying to fix drug withdrawal with more drugs. It wasn't until I stopped doing that, I very slowly started improving and even then my recovery has been very slow, but at least I'm going in the right direction now.

 

I can't improve on what SG has written, I think she has summed up your situation very well. It would be great if you would answer her question about how you have felt since making the mirtazapine cut, that helps us get an idea if you might be better for now to stay on a regular dose, or if you would feel better by slowly tapering it now.

 

Hang in there Terry, you're not alone in having a terrible time after stopping an anti-depressant too fast. Recovery can take a very long time for some people, I'm one of them and unfortunately there's nothing that can be done to speed up the process, it takes time. One of the hardest things for me has been accepting that there isn't a quick fix. But we do get better, just not as fast as we would like.

 

Petunia.

[Terry4949]

Thank you for your reply , to be honest cutting the mirtazapine , from 30mg now down to 22.5mg has not made any difference in the severity of the symptoms , daily anxiety very high ,high cortisol spikes in the morning , feeling of intense emotions i, and wanting to cry at everything , the only thing that has changed whilst on the mirtazapine is I sleep , by that I mean it knocks me out and then I wake exhausted, I just can't carry on like this appx 3 years of hell , no life nothing

[Petunia]

Terry, what was your sleep like before you started taking mirtazapine?

 

Are you taking pregabalin? I don't see it in your signature but there is some discussion about it earlier in your thread. We are discussing your situation, taking everything into consideration before suggesting what you might try, but we need the full picture of your current situation in your signature. I missed the fact that you are currently taking pregabalin because its not there.

 

 

Please put the pregabalin in your signature.  You were probably told it is a pain med, but it is another psych drug in the "anticonvulsant" "GABA" department.

[Terry4949]

Thanks petunia , I am sorry that my history is not up to date about pregabalin , I am currently on 200mg a day , 100 mg at night and 100 mg in the morning , not sure how to update my signature, my sleep before mirtazapine was actually very good never had a problem with it , but now it is filled with weird dreams and unsettled , it knocks me out cold for about 4hours then I will wake with a start , and have high cortisol spikes sometimes panicky , then go back to sleep ,then when I wake I feel exhausted .

[Altostrata]

 

i have been taking one 15mg tablet and have been taking half a 15 mg tablet for a month now , so now on liquid dose 22.5mg so have not dropped the dose anymore just switch to liquid ready for my next cut ,if that makes any sense ,

 

Terry, you can take a 15mg tablet and add liquid to that. Did your symptoms get worse after you cut to 22.5mg?

 

Did you make your own liquid? How are you measuring it?

 

What do you mean by "depression"?

 

When do you take your drugs? Please keep notes on paper about your daily symptom pattern, your drug dosages, and the times of your dosing.

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

 

 

 

Terry, please take a deep breath and answer the questions above.

 

If mirtazapine helps you sleep, why are you reducing it? Why and when was pregabalin added?

 

Your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs is very important to determine if any of them are causing your symptoms?

[Terry4949]

Thanks alto , firstly I am still on 22.5mg of tablet form of mirtazapine which I take at 7.30 pm , the pregablin was added in September 2015 for anxiety it was the same time that I started the mirtazapine , the reason I am reducing mirtazapine is I find it has had no effect on my well being , the side effects out way the benifits , it has to be the worst med I have ever taken to be honest , I have put my all my drugs in the drug interactions checker as advised , but I don't know how to copy and paste the results in this topic , very sorry I am not very good with computers etc , don't really understand them ,