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Odwina: What if paxil reinstatement fails?


Odwina

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Odwina, usually -- but not always -- side effects decrease as dose decreases. I think your doctor was careless not to think about reducing side effects by reducing the Effexor dose.

 

 

My GP gave me Lexomil benzo (bromazepam) 1.5 mgs to take am. and pm.  but I have stopped these because I felt they were aggravating the tiredness and lethargy

 

On what date did you start taking 1.5 mg bromazepam in mornings and evenings?

On what date did you stop taking 1.5 mg bromazepam in mornings and evenings?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Thinking of you odwina hugs xo

10 years citalopram 30mg- tapered down in December 15/2015- Jan 15/2016 to 20mg for two weeks, ten for one week and five for another week, then stopped, less then two weeks later, sheer hell broke lose with debilitating withdrawal symptoms.

 

Update-- reinstated 5mg of celexa on feb 5-- within hours noticed immediate difference in WD symptoms-- Holding holding and more holding.

 

Updose- March 23/16 too 10mg- relieved the harsher head symptoms- current symptoms headaches, dizzy, numbness and tingling in my head.

 

Benzos- 2015-Ativan on and off for 6 months 2mg- switched to clonazepam nov 2015- 2mg till Jan 2016 Zopiclone 7.5mg nov-dec 2015- was tapered off over 4weeks- Currently in protracted withdrawal. ????????????????????????????????

 

Update- ended up in the hospital April 18/16 major suicidal ( never had that before) was admitted/ been there ever since, put me back to full dose celexa 30mg no drugs added, IAM FINALLY STABLE AFTER 3 months of tortuous hell. Got a great physiatrist that new all about WD, he will help me taper properly in a couple of months at 5% deductions holding 8 weeks. I never want to relive that hell again.

 

Udate- stable and holding, doing things slowly is key.

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Thanks for reply Scallywag

 

the side effects of sleepy and dopy nausea and complete lack of appetite (often not eating all day) from Effexor were so severe my doctor felt that the drug was not accepted by my body and wanted to stop it s soon as possible

 

this sleepy effect lasted right through to the very end and only faded after I stopped completely on 26th Dec taking a good 2 weeks to clear but there is still some sleepiness from withdrawal I guess

 

the 1.5 bromazapam was supposed to be to counter anxiety after the stopping of Effexor and only started a week ago but I quickly felt it was too much. I think my Nervous system is over sensitised by all the changes from May 2016 to date. I am hoping that Inositol may at some stage be able to sooth the anxiety when it gets to an effective dose in several weeks time.

 

I am still very worried about the possibility of protracted withdrawal from the very rapid taper of Effexor. I suffered very severe nausea and headaches and sleepiness and general unwell withdrawal  feelings during the whole of the rapid taper and hardly left home at all. So I had immediate withdrawal that is for sure and it was very hard and painful to go through.

 

Today I have had a reasonable day with general withdrawal discomfort and unwell feelings tonight and  a slight panic  feeling at the supermarket. But compared with taper period tolerable but not pleasant.

- on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!)

 - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering)

- 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd

- reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible

6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine),  a tricyclic  - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal

- then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body

- 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly  for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg

- 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected

 

 

 

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PS

should I still be experiencing those "over all withdrawal" symptoms  which are unpleasant to say the least

 

Would a reinstatement stop these feelings and excessive sweating and  make life more pleasant or is it better to keep going now and wait for symptoms to subside.?

 

Would a slower final taper have eliminated these feeling I have now?

 

Problem is I am scared to reinstate as I cant exist with the sleepy effect or the total lack of appetite that even means forcing taking enough liquids each day

 

My Effexor was supplied in capsules with different size beads so taking a consistent dose by counting beads is not that easy and may vary from day to day. They vary from miniscule to pin head size and are two colours white and yellow manufactured by Biogaran in FRance.

- on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!)

 - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering)

- 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd

- reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible

6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine),  a tricyclic  - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal

- then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body

- 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly  for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg

- 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected

 

 

 

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pps

 

In a capsule there are 113 varying size beads

 

Is there a way to be accurate as I have no scales to weigh them and they really are all sizes and not easy even to grade to ensure an accurate dose for months on end and then to taper

 

Are all Effexor beads like this?

- on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!)

 - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering)

- 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd

- reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible

6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine),  a tricyclic  - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal

- then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body

- 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly  for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg

- 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Odwina, please see:

Counting beads in a capsule versus weighing

 

and

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

People have shared their stories, tips and advice for counting beads.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 2 weeks later...

when coming off one drug onto another does the cumulative time of taking both drugs count as the total time on medication?

 

eg

 

does 8 weeks on Lexapro before a straight switch to Effexor  add 8 weeks to the total time of taking Effexor?

 

my GP  worked only on the time on Effexor as a guide to a rapid taper as I had only taken Effexor for 6 weeks before starting the rapid taper

 

BUT  I did have 8 weeks on Lexapro before Effexor

 

Is there any guidance on this

 

I tried reinstatement at 4 mgs but the result was horrendous after just  2 days at 4 mgs

- on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!)

 - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering)

- 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd

- reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible

6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine),  a tricyclic  - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal

- then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body

- 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly  for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg

- 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected

 

 

 

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Hi Odwina,

 

What meds are you currently on? Effexor? Ali

10 years citalopram 30mg- tapered down in December 15/2015- Jan 15/2016 to 20mg for two weeks, ten for one week and five for another week, then stopped, less then two weeks later, sheer hell broke lose with debilitating withdrawal symptoms.

 

Update-- reinstated 5mg of celexa on feb 5-- within hours noticed immediate difference in WD symptoms-- Holding holding and more holding.

 

Updose- March 23/16 too 10mg- relieved the harsher head symptoms- current symptoms headaches, dizzy, numbness and tingling in my head.

 

Benzos- 2015-Ativan on and off for 6 months 2mg- switched to clonazepam nov 2015- 2mg till Jan 2016 Zopiclone 7.5mg nov-dec 2015- was tapered off over 4weeks- Currently in protracted withdrawal. ????????????????????????????????

 

Update- ended up in the hospital April 18/16 major suicidal ( never had that before) was admitted/ been there ever since, put me back to full dose celexa 30mg no drugs added, IAM FINALLY STABLE AFTER 3 months of tortuous hell. Got a great physiatrist that new all about WD, he will help me taper properly in a couple of months at 5% deductions holding 8 weeks. I never want to relive that hell again.

 

Udate- stable and holding, doing things slowly is key.

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I am taking NOTHING

 

My doctor  found that Effexor was causing intollerable tirdness (75% of the day)  extreme nausea and sick in stomach and unable to eat for days on end.

 

I had been on drug for 5 weeks in clinic so she advised a very rapid taper over period 2nd oct to 26th dec   and then stopped intending to substitute Prozac

 

but after 11 days of Prozac I was so ill physically (headaches nausea and general overall unwell feeling )she stopped that too and decided that no drugs would take as almost all the ssri and Snri drugs were tried in clinic  plus tricyclics

 

So she decided to leave me with no ssri or snri or tricyclic and just Benzos for anxiety which is a problem

 

the withdrawal from Effexor as a rapid taper has been hell and still is hell and reinstatement did not work as I seem to be reacting to everything available

 

I am struggling on with withdrawal from Effexor and hoping that I will come out of this in a reasonable time .

 

At the moment life is hell 80% of the time and  I have little respite from nausea, sick feeling, poor appetite loss of interest in everything and sleepless nights and sweating with hot ants in the early hours of the morning

- on Paxil for more than 20 years, usual dosage 20 mg, in times of crises 40 or 60 mg (once even 80 for a few months!)

 - 9 November 2015 - quit Paxil practically cold turkey (3 weeks tapering)

- 20 Feb 2016 - after 3.5 months on zero drug reinstated 14 mg paxil because of entering unbearable protracted wd

- reinstatement brought no relief, only worse, terrible akhatisia crises, sleep lost completely till I finally understood that my brain could no longer accept the slightest dose of paxil, so tapering after reinstatement became impossible

6 May - 1 October 2016 - in psychiatric clinic in France where I was given: Quitaxon (doxepine),  a tricyclic  - 50 mg - 6 weeks, no improvement, very bad side effects; doctor tried paxil again at only 5 mg and I became suicidal

- then Lexapro, 15 June - end August, very gradual increasing to 15 mg - zomboid only, released from clinic and had to be reatmitted after only a few days. remeron tried too, rejected violently by the body

- 1 sept 2015 - back in clinic changed directly  for Effexor over 4 weeks rising from 37.5 to 187.5 mgs at discharge on 2nd October; 12 October 2015 - decided tapering effexor as it only made me very sick, every 3 weeks dropped 37.5 mg

- 26 Dec - zero effexor, tried prozac and then clomipramine bridge, both rejected

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I'm not sure what you were asking when you posted "does 8 weeks on Lexapro before a straight switch to Effexor  add 8 weeks to the total time of taking Effexor?"

 

Lexapro and Effexor are different medications. The 8 weeks on Lexapro is the time on Lexapro. The period of time you took Effexor is the time you took Effexor. When looking at withdrawal symptoms, having started and discontinued 2 medications means that you could be dealing with withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing each of them, first w/d from lexapro when you switched, and then w/d from Effexor when you rapid tapered off that.

 

Underneath that, you were likely were having withdrawal/discontinuation symptoms from having stopped Paxil rather rapidly.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

I feel as though these drugs are clearly no good for you and they don't seem to be finding you a solution, have you tried to reinstate anything? Or it just makes you sick? Ali

10 years citalopram 30mg- tapered down in December 15/2015- Jan 15/2016 to 20mg for two weeks, ten for one week and five for another week, then stopped, less then two weeks later, sheer hell broke lose with debilitating withdrawal symptoms.

 

Update-- reinstated 5mg of celexa on feb 5-- within hours noticed immediate difference in WD symptoms-- Holding holding and more holding.

 

Updose- March 23/16 too 10mg- relieved the harsher head symptoms- current symptoms headaches, dizzy, numbness and tingling in my head.

 

Benzos- 2015-Ativan on and off for 6 months 2mg- switched to clonazepam nov 2015- 2mg till Jan 2016 Zopiclone 7.5mg nov-dec 2015- was tapered off over 4weeks- Currently in protracted withdrawal. ????????????????????????????????

 

Update- ended up in the hospital April 18/16 major suicidal ( never had that before) was admitted/ been there ever since, put me back to full dose celexa 30mg no drugs added, IAM FINALLY STABLE AFTER 3 months of tortuous hell. Got a great physiatrist that new all about WD, he will help me taper properly in a couple of months at 5% deductions holding 8 weeks. I never want to relive that hell again.

 

Udate- stable and holding, doing things slowly is key.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Odwina:

 

when coming off one drug onto another does the cumulative time of taking both drugs count as the total time on medication?

 

eg

 

does 8 weeks on Lexapro before a straight switch to Effexor  add 8 weeks to the total time of taking Effexor?

 

Actually, what I am more interested in - is changes.

 

I don't count "total time" on a drug, except in rare cases to help calculate a reinstatement.

 

What I do count is:  Number of changes in a period.  In this case - it is 2 changes in an 16 week period.  What happened to you with your "Prozac Bridge" (below) is worse, because it was a lot of changes in a short time.  Each taper, each supplement, each drug change - counts as a change, and can be destabilizing.

 

After each change, symptoms can come immediately, or they can come a year out - depending on other changes, other stressors, like moving house, changing or stressful relationships, changing jobs.  Everybody is different, but a stressor is a stressor.  The more hits you take, the rougher your road will be.

 

Drug changes count as a hit, or, as epigeneticists are fond of saying, "an insult to the system."

 

When you pile up change upon change, it leads to a difficult road.

 

So when you tell me:

I am taking NOTHING

 

My doctor  found that Effexor was causing intollerable tirdness (75% of the day)  extreme nausea and sick in stomach and unable to eat for days on end.

 

I had been on drug for 5 weeks in clinic so she advised a very rapid taper over period 2nd oct to 26th dec   and then stopped intending to substitute Prozac

 

but after 11 days of Prozac I was so ill physically (headaches nausea and general overall unwell feeling )she stopped that too and decided that no drugs would take as almost all the ssri and Snri drugs were tried in clinic  plus tricyclics

 

So she decided to leave me with no ssri or snri or tricyclic and just Benzos for anxiety which is a problem

 

the withdrawal from Effexor as a rapid taper has been hell and still is hell and reinstatement did not work as I seem to be reacting to everything available

 

I am struggling on with withdrawal from Effexor and hoping that I will come out of this in a reasonable time .

 

At the moment life is hell 80% of the time and  I have little respite from nausea, sick feeling, poor appetite loss of interest in everything and sleepless nights and sweating with hot ants in the early hours of the morning

 

That's another set of changes in December, that may have made your Effexor withdrawal more challenging.

 

And now you have CT withdrawals, because you quit to go on the Prozac, reacted to the Prozac, and then quit that.  Because of this, I'm unsure how to recommend reinstatement - but I'm thinking if you were to reinstate anything, it would be 5-10 beads of Effexor.

 

So, sadly, what you are experiencing is "normal withdrawal" for what you have been through.  We recommend Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms.

 

We cannot recommend drugs here at SA, we focus on helping people come off of them.  There are many other forums for "Anxiety" and "Depression" where people will be happy to discuss their experiences with drugs.  Sadly, most of our experience is this:  the longer you are on them, and the more you change them, the more trouble you will have.

 

How can we help?  I hope you see the sun today.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 11 months later...

Odwina it’s been a year now since we heard from you ...any update?

Are you   feeling a little better.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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