purcy51

[purcy51]

New to this site and I am so glad I found it.

My history: Started on Zoloft 200mg in 1999 after being diagnosed with dysthymia. In 2010, had a suicide attempt and switched to Cymbalta 60mg. Had another close call last summer (2015) after herniated a disc in my back and having a GI bleed and spending a week in the hospital for both those incidents. Was off work for three months. Checked into a mental health facility and added Seroquel 150mg and Topomax 100mg to the mix. Now experiencing all kinds of side effects, mostly GI problems. I have a cardiac history as well, 4 stents in my left anterior descending artery. Decided to switch to Viibryd 40mg as I heard it didn't have as many side effects as Cymbalta. Went cold turkey on the Cymbalta after two weeks of Viibryd. oh boy....bad move. Along with the brain zaps, which I'd experienced in the past when I missed a few doses I have been extremely anxious, having hot flashes, chest pain, supra-ventricular tachycardia (high heart rate) and skin crawls. After reading a ton of info on this site I went back on Cymbalta 20mg and am tapering off slowly. Have decided to get rid of all anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Just simply tired of the side effects. I've added a slew of GI meds as I've developed more GI problems which I am convinced is a result of the Seroquel. Hope that is enough info, feels like I wrote a book.

[Ali4]

Welcome to SA Purcy

 

Sorry your going through a hard time right now, rest assured you have found a great forum with tons of help and information from amazing people in the same spot your in. If you could fill in your drug signature with all your med history that would be great, that way the mods and other members will be able to understand better and give you the accurate info you need, smart move reinstating cymbalta, the site recommends 10% tapers, if you can have a read through symptoms and self care about reinstating and stabilizing. Start there and a mod will be by shortly to give you guidence. Take care Ali

[purcy51]

Thanks for the reply. Just added my med list to my signature. Hoping that with the Viibryd it will be a bit easier to taper off the Cymbalta. Then once I've stabized I can begin the taper for one of the others. Wishing I had found this site before I decided to change to Viibryd and just had Cymbalta and Seroquel to deal with. The Cymbalta hasn't been working for awhile and I now realize why. A few years ago I had some problems getting the Cymbalta authorized by a new insurance company and was without it for 5-6 days. When I got back on the withdrawal symptoms went away but it was never as affective afterwards. Guess all I can do now is stick to the taper and hope all works out for the best.

[Ali4]

Thank you purcy for filling in your sig!!! We are all in the same boat wishing we found this site sooner, but the good thing is we found it. Have you been tapering the cymbalta by 10%.? Also how long are you holding before you drop again? I see you just started back on cymbalta couple days ago, right now you need to hold and stabilize, how are you feeling with your WD symptoms since starting again? It takes 4 days for it to get into your blood, some people feel relief immediately and some it will take more time, so it's about waiting and being patient, which I have to remind myself of frequently lol. Don't worry you will get through this, a mod will chime in shortly to give more info and direction on your meds. This will be your personal journal, to ask any questions you may have, if you click follow this topic in the top right corner, you will be alerted anytime someone's posts. All the best. Ali.

[purcy51]

Well Ali, I am starting to feel better today, thanks. The zaps have dissipated quite alot but not entirely. Not as anxious as I was the last four or five days. Hopefully by Monday I'll feel better;have to go back to work. Last time I stopped the withdrawal symptoms went away in a day or two when I started up again, praying for the same this time. What really kicked all this research off was another stint in the hospital for chest pain. Luckily, it was just gastritis and coronary disease. While I was in the hospital it dawned on me that all these issues were more than likley a combination side effects and withdrawal symptoms from the AD's. Now, after reading so much on this site I am convinced that is the case. I am looking forward to the day I can be off all of it, and then start getting rid of some of the other meds as well. I take so many meds now that I'm the pharmacy practically every other day! I wouldn't be surprised if the employees refer to me as the "frequent flier"!

[Fresh]

Hi purcy51 , welcome to the site.

 

Please could you add the slew of GI drugs to your signature , and put ALL your meds. into the Interaction Checker at

www.drugs.com.     Could you copy and paste any adverse interactions here , thank you.

 

How are you tapering?

 

Please read our links "Why Taper By 10% of my Dosage"   here   http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

and

"Taking multiple psyche drugs , which to Taper First"  here  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first/

 

You will need to hold for 6 to 8 weeks after reinstating (please can you add a date to your signature)  before you begin to taper , so you have lots of time to plan your strategy.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[purcy51]

Interactions between your selected drugs

Major

duloxetine vilazodone

Applies to: Cymbalta (duloxetine), Viibryd (vilazodone)

Using DULoxetine together with vilazodone can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[purcy51]

Moderate

clopidogrel vilazodone

Applies to: Plavix (clopidogrel), Viibryd (vilazodone)

Using vilazodone together with clopidogrel may increase the risk of bleeding. The interaction may be more likely if you are elderly or have kidney or liver disease. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience any unusual bleeding or bruising, or have other signs and symptoms of bleeding such as dizziness; lightheadedness; red or black, tarry stools; coughing up or vomiting fresh or dried blood that looks like coffee grounds; severe headache; and weakness. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor

[Fresh]

Thank you.    I can see you started the viibroyd with the intention of switching to cymbalta , and now are stuck with both.

 

What date did you start viibroyd on?

I'm thinking that a fast taper off might be the best way forward ... will seek advice of more experienced moderators.

It's not a good idea to stay on 2 ad's , agree?

[purcy51]

aspirin vilazodone

Applies to: aspirin, Viibryd (vilazodone)

Using vilazodone together with aspirin may increase the risk of bleeding. The interaction may be more likely if you are elderly or have kidney or liver disease.

 

clopidogrel duloxetine

Applies to: Plavix (clopidogrel), Cymbalta (duloxetine)

Using DULoxetine together with clopidogrel may increase the risk of bleeding.

 

quetiapine duloxetine

Applies to: Seroquel (quetiapine), Cymbalta (duloxetine)

Using QUEtiapine together with DULoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating

 

carvedilol duloxetine

Applies to: Coreg (carvedilol), Cymbalta (duloxetine)

DULoxetine may increase the blood levels and effects of carvedilol

 

aspirin duloxetine

Applies to: aspirin, Cymbalta (duloxetine)

Using DULoxetine together with aspirin may increase the risk of bleeding

[purcy51]

Actually its the other way around. Originally on cymbalta and trying to switch to Viibryd. But, yes I do agree concerning being on 2 ad's. started Viibryd stater pack on Mar 1st

[Fresh]

OOps , yes , sorry.   (That should read: started viibroyd with intention of switching FROM cymbalta)

Your doctor is a dufus to change you to a drug with so many dangerous interactions with your current medication regime.

 

How do you feel about getting off the viibroyd asap?

[purcy51]

I was thinking that would be the best thing.

[purcy51]

I've only been on the 40mg Viibryd for a few days. Started with one week of 10mg, then one week at 20mg QD, and now 3 days at 40mg QD. I'm off by a day or two in the progression b\c I was in hospital for a few days and they were only giving me 20mg a day.

[Fresh]

Ah , excellent.   How about you back to 30mg for 4 days ,   then 20mg for 4 days , then 10 for 4 days , then off (or 5mg for few days if you're more comfortable with that).

 

It's good to try and do the taper over less time than you were on the drug i.e. 3 weeks.

[purcy51]

Going to sign off for the night as I am on call at the hospital. I work in the cardiac cath lab (I'm a radiologic/cardiovascula tech) and we've been a bit busy this weekend. Need some rest. Thanks for your help!

[purcy51]

Sounds like a good plan. Thank you!

[purcy51]

Update:

I spoke with my physician on the phone and he is not sympathetic to my situation. Wants me to stay on the 40mg of Viibryd and ride it out the withdrawal from cymbalta. So I am now in the process of finding another doctor to help me. Unfortunately, most places around here want you to see one of their therapists first and then it'll be a month or more to see a psychiatrist. I've only got enough cymbalta to last @ 20 days. So, i'm in a bit of a quandary. Ugh. I feel better, but I keep ruminating on this. Trying to see it as a minor setback but it is tough.

[Fresh]

Don't ruminate too long , you need a doctor who'll support you.

You might get lucky on this link:  Recommended Doctors , Therapists or Clinics 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

[purcy51]

Well, Safe Harbor has a Doctor listed about two hours from here. I just put a call in to a psych that my therapist reccomended, just waiting to hear back. So, if that doesn't work out I'll try the doc on Safe Harbor's list.

[purcy51]

Thanks, Fresh. This site is such a wonderful resource! Thank you and all the mod's for all the work you do!

[purcy51]

First day in three weeks that I finally feel normal. Happy, actually! Was able to get a refill on my 60mg Cymbalta, so I have enough to count beads and divide them out to 20mg until May. Made a psych appt. for April 21st. So, everything is great! For awhile I was beating myself up about this whole event, but now I see it was a good experience as I've learned so much truth about these meds and the withdrawal process. And, I've been able to assist my mother who is going through withdrawal from coming off Zoloft too quickly( with doctor supervision BTW).:I'm praying this window stays open for awhile!

[purcy51]

Quick update: everything is going well. Very few, if any withdrawal symptoms. Almost done with Viibryd. Still on 20mg of Cymbalta 150mg of Seroquel. Feeling great thus far. Once I am finished with the Viibryd taper i am going to make sure I am good and stabilized on Cymbalta, thinking 4 weeks, then start to taper that. It's amazing how clear-headed I feel- never realized how foggy I was on the higher dose of Cymbalta.

[Fresh]

Good to hear purcy!

 

If you like the effect of being clear-headed , you might want to taper down some of the seroquoel next,maybe to half-way.

That will be keeping you sedated - you're on a pretty big dose.

 

Something to consider

[purcy51]

I was actually considering that as well. Going to at least hold where I am until I see my psych. Not sure how he'll feel about all of this, praying he'll be supportive. On another note, I've been offered a better job away from here and am seriously contemplating it. It would put me in a larger metro area with more/better options regarding psychiatrists. And most of all really close to the mountains! I so miss the scenery of the western U.S., think it would be a huge help for my mood.

[ChessieCat]

Hi purcy,

 

You might find it helpful to read these before seeing your psych.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

[purcy51]

Finished my taper of Viibryd. Had some withdrawal symptoms at first, mostly in the form of worsened mood. That has improved significantly the last few days though. One symptom is still hanging around though- fatigue. I find it very difficult to get up and around first thing in the morning. It gets better throughout the day but I still have this feeling of being very tired, exhausted really. It hasn't affected my life too much, I still get to work, get my tasks done, etc. I just feel like I could sleep all day!

[purcy51]

After thinking things over, beginning to see how the fatigue may be due to seroquel....

[Altostrata]

Fatigue is a very common side effect of Seroquel.

[purcy51]

I need to get something out of my system. I've journaled about it, but it is still bubbling up. Like I need to share it with people. I've been likening this whole process to an awakening. Coming back to life. That's the only way I can describe it.

 

Sometimes it's fun, like when I'm laughing like I haven't laughed in awhile. Other times it is scary, like when I get angry. I haven't been angry in some time, until recently, and it was exhilarating (as I think I mentioned in an earlier post) but it is also scary b/c I felt on the verge of losing control. WOW! Quite quickly after that, I was drained physically and emotionally. But, I chalked it up to my body not being used to that rush that you get when flooded with emotion.

 

I listened a song the other day that I hadn't heard in some time, and the lyrics went straight to my heart, but in  a good way. I actually started tearing up, with grateful tears. It was good to have that feeling again. No, it was GREAT to have that feeling again.

 

I'm a spiritual (hate that word, but religious is worse) person, for lack of a better word and I haven't felt close to God in ages. I'm starting to feel it again, ever so slightly. It's maddening in a way b/c I want it all back now! Then I think of "What about Bob": Baby Steps!! Baaaaby Steps! LOL! But, I want to run doggone it!

 

There are so many things I miss, that I rarely thought about while on 60mg Cymbalta.  Like being close to my wife, physically and emotionally. These last few years have been hard on her. She's one of the many reasons I'm doing this. It isn't fair to her to be burdened with what I've become. Thankfully she is totally supportive of this decision. She's one of those rays of light that grows lighter every day.

 

Another thing I miss is that feeling you get sitting on the porch in the morning before every one gets up and moving. The serenity of it all, and an appreciation for it. That has been lacking for years. Man, I can't wait for that to come back.

 

There is one thing that has been bugging me, and I found it makes this all more difficult. So, I've decided to dispense with it. That is, covering up how you are feeling to others. Denying to friends, family and co-workers that you are feeling bad. I will not do it. I will live honestly. Covering that stuff up just makes all of this so much more unbearable. I will tell them, "no I'm not ok right now, but I'm going to be." It may take years, but I AM going to be healthy again. I want to live out in the open, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Perhaps someone will hear my story and it will stop them from getting on these drugs. I help people in my work, it's part of who I am and why I do it. It is why I am on this site. I want that in the all other parts of my life too. "See this guy, he's got some experiences you need to hear"...I want others to see, to know, the dangers and then choose to not take that pill. Or at least make an informed decision.

 

Maybe I'll end up being an activist when this is all over...

 

Sorry for the rant. Had to get it out.

[purcy51]

I know I am not alone when I say I've been struggling to find meaning in this journey. Although my suffering hasn't been on the level of others, I still have moments, especially when interacting with others, where I feel as though I am contained within a fish-bowl looking out on the world and wondering when, if ever, I'll feel like I belong again. God, it hurts! My relationship with my wife is suffering. She understands, as much as anyone on the outside looking in is able too, and is very supportive of my decision to go down this road. However, I find it very difficult to connect with her emotionally right now. There's this huge sense of disconnectedness, and I feel it most right after I've had a window where I feel good. This journey has challenged my spiritual beliefs and I've been trying to reconcile all of this with those beliefs.

Anyway, I wanted to share a quote that has been helping me in this suffering from one of my favorite authors, one Dallas Willard. He was a philosophy professor at the University of Southern California. He wrote a number of books including "The Divine Conspiracy" which is probably his most well known work. Fair warning, it is decidedly Christian in tone, so if that offends you, perhaps you should stop reading at this point. This is taken from a talk he gave at the Church of the Open Door in 2000. Essentially it all boils down to one question, what is your view/understanding of God? Here's the quote:

 

"I feel a little bit gingerly about talking about suffering. I don’t want to offend you (those who are overwhelmed by suffering in their lives). I haven’t experienced a lot of suffering but I have looked at suffering. One of my favorite teachings of Jesus is Matthew 18:10. Jesus is talking about children. Of all the suffering in the world the suffering of children is hardest to take. It is the hardest thing for me. After warning people about harming children Jesus says, “Their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven." He is saying a child is under the care of God’s kingdom. How can such terrible things happen? The answer is the child is under the care of God’s kingdom. What kind of a universe is this? Paul says, “Be anxious for nothing.” It all depends on what you think about God. Either your view of God will determine your view of suffering or your view of human suffering will determine your view of God. If you believe God is big enough, great enough, and good enough you will see suffering as something that is always made good by God, redeemed by God, if not here then there. But if you don’t have a great God your experience of human suffering will make God smaller and you are going to be struggling to save God. Remember the story of Rabbi Kushner whose son was suffering from rapid aging disease. By the age of 7 or 8 years old you have the body of an 80 year old man. Kushner wrote a book, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People". He struggled mightily with it. I would not in anyway look down on him. When a person is struggling in pain you don’t try to fix it. You take the long view and stay with them and love them. The fixing has to be done long beforehand, not in the moment. If it is righty done beforehand, then their great view of God will call them through. Look at the book of Lamentations. Terrible, indescribable evil things had happened to Jerusalem. At the end of the book Jeremiah talks about God reigning. God reigning. If you believe in the kingdom of God you have point of view from which the evil falls into your life can be redeemed and you can say things like, “God works everything together for good for those that love God and are called according to God's purposes.” You can actually believe it. Not just whistling in the dark. Rabbi Kushner struggled with that story and actually he took one of the standard resolutions to the problem of evil. God’s power is limited. A limited God we say in philosophy. A lot of process theology falls into a limited theology in order to explain the question, “Why doesn’t God stop some things that happen from happening. God is good. Rabbi, deeply religious, could not give up on the goodness of God. When faced with a choice he gives up on the power of God. God is limited. He didn’t understand how great the goodness of God was. Can you believe that God is big enough to redeem any evil if it is surrendered to him. Believe that God is good enough that no person in the end will suffer unjustly. That all innocent suffering will be redeemed. That the child who is suffering from starvation in the Sudan will step through portals of glory and be thankful to have existed. Can you believe that? That is what the cross is about. There are so many things in the cross. The redemption of human suffering. Beyond the cross there is resurrection. There is life. In that context you can hear Peter saying, “casting all your cares on him who cares for you.” You have to have a good God, a big God who is so wonderful and has such power and goodness that there is nothing He cannot bring out right. What kind of universe can we say to a child, “It’s okay”. Know the child will die, if not now but later. Jesus is the one who understands all of this. Have to make up your mind about Jesus. The challenge that stands before the earth. What think you of Christ? That is the simple question of life. Because only if He is right is there an answer to the problems that face human existence. We can be pessimistic and say the only meaning of life is to get through it. “Thank God it’s over if it is ever over.” No human being can thrive on that. Can’t thrive on that view of life. Have to have a different view of the universe. Have a view of a God who stands back of the universe. Only view that enables you to have confidence is to believe in Jesus."

 

This process has certainly challenged my view of God. But that is OK, I think God welcomes those challenges and questions. However, I've come to the conclusion that somehow, some way, He will make this right. I'm still struggling with it at times, but I eventually end up back at that conclusion. He's already redeemed so many bad things in my life that I cannot escape that conclusion.

[purcy51]

I was just reading an excerpt from "Mad in America" and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I had been taking alprazolam .5mg BID after my first stent was placed in my heart in April 2014. The prescription ran out 12 months later and my cardiologist would not renew it. So, I went cold-turkey. Two months later I had a sudden attack of anxiety that would not let up. Ultimately I voluntarily admitted myself to a psychiatric hospital, which is when the Seroquel was added to my drug regimen. It just now dawned on me that the CT of alprazolam likely triggered my anxiety episode. I never experienced anxiety attacks prior to that. Smh...

[Persephone]

I need to get something out of my system. I've journaled about it, but it is still bubbling up. Like I need to share it with people. I've been likening this whole process to an awakening. Coming back to life. That's the only way I can describe it.

 

Sometimes it's fun, like when I'm laughing like I haven't laughed in awhile. Other times it is scary, like when I get angry. I haven't been angry in some time, until recently, and it was exhilarating (as I think I mentioned in an earlier post) but it is also scary b/c I felt on the verge of losing control. WOW! Quite quickly after that, I was drained physically and emotionally. But, I chalked it up to my body not being used to that rush that you get when flooded with emotion.

 

I listened a song the other day that I hadn't heard in some time, and the lyrics went straight to my heart, but in  a good way. I actually started tearing up, with grateful tears. It was good to have that feeling again. No, it was GREAT to have that feeling again.

 

I'm a spiritual (hate that word, but religious is worse) person, for lack of a better word and I haven't felt close to God in ages. I'm starting to feel it again, ever so slightly. It's maddening in a way b/c I want it all back now! Then I think of "What about Bob": Baby Steps!! Baaaaby Steps! LOL! But, I want to run doggone it!

 

There are so many things I miss, that I rarely thought about while on 60mg Cymbalta.  Like being close to my wife, physically and emotionally. These last few years have been hard on her. She's one of the many reasons I'm doing this. It isn't fair to her to be burdened with what I've become. Thankfully she is totally supportive of this decision. She's one of those rays of light that grows lighter every day.

 

Another thing I miss is that feeling you get sitting on the porch in the morning before every one gets up and moving. The serenity of it all, and an appreciation for it. That has been lacking for years. Man, I can't wait for that to come back.

 

There is one thing that has been bugging me, and I found it makes this all more difficult. So, I've decided to dispense with it. That is, covering up how you are feeling to others. Denying to friends, family and co-workers that you are feeling bad. I will not do it. I will live honestly. Covering that stuff up just makes all of this so much more unbearable. I will tell them, "no I'm not ok right now, but I'm going to be." It may take years, but I AM going to be healthy again. I want to live out in the open, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Perhaps someone will hear my story and it will stop them from getting on these drugs. I help people in my work, it's part of who I am and why I do it. It is why I am on this site. I want that in the all other parts of my life too. "See this guy, he's got some experiences you need to hear"...I want others to see, to know, the dangers and then choose to not take that pill. Or at least make an informed decision.

 

Maybe I'll end up being an activist when this is all over...

 

Sorry for the rant. Had to get it out.

 

purcy, this whole post is beautiful. It's not a rant. It's poetry.

 

I've had brief moments like that, where I break through the sedation of the drugs to a real moment of being present in my life. I am looking forward to having more.

 

Have you read any of the books by Jon Kabat-Zinn on mindfulness? Mindfulness is very similar to what you are describing.

[purcy51]

Hi Persephone, thanks for stopping by and for your kind words. It is nice to know my words resonate with someone. I have not read any of those books, however during my hospital stay last summer I was taught some mindfulness techniques. I would say my understanding of it is pretty rudimentary though. I've been meaning to look into it more recently but I've been quite busy with work as of late. Perhaps I'll have some time this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion!

[purcy51]

I've noticed over the last 5 days, not counting last night, @ 30 min after I take my evenings meds I begin to feel extremely irritable and somewhat restless, along with a titch of nausea. Evening meds are 150mg Seroquel, 40 mg atorvastatin, and 3.125mg of carvedilol. Now, it did not happen last night, last night was pretty good. Nothing in my routine has changed, it has been steady for 8-9 months. Any ideas? I've toyed with the idea that it is the Seroquel, and maybe I should decrease that. I'm just not sure though.

 

Something else that complicates this is I may be moving and changing jobs soon. With that added stress I'm cautious of changing anything.

 

On a happier note, I finally got back on my bike the last few days. I thought at first this irritability may be caused by my exercising again, but the irritability started before that. I love cycling, for some reason it just brings me joy. And I didn't hit it that hard...well, compared to what I used to do! I used to ride 200 miles a week. I've done two 15 mile rides, very easy rides mind you, in the last 3 days and I felt great afterwards!

[purcy51]

One other note, I did have a protein shake after my ride yesterday, and since I felt better last night I wonder if I'm not getting enough protein otherwise.