Mattacmotoring: Trying to taper off paxil. Need help.

[Mattacmotoring]

I have anxiety and ocd and was prescribed paxil by a GP. Ive been taking 30mg for about 3 weeks but I recently learned my father was diagnosed as bipolar. Ive heard that antidepressants can cause manic episodes or increase the chance of developing bipolar in people who have family with bipolar. Should I continue to take the ssri or should i stop? In worried I might develop bipolar if I continue. I took 15 MSG of my regular dose today but I'm not sure what to do. I dont have a psychiatrt because of insurance. Any help or suggestions? Thank you.l

[ChessieCat]

Hi Matthew & welcome to SA,

 

I've just sent you a PM (private message - top right of screen).

 

It would be helpful if you could Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature  OR Complete your Signature from Phone or Tablet.  Please include ALL drug names, dates, doses and how you decreased/increased.  This will allow us to see your drug history at a glance.  It is also a good idea to update it each time you change your dose so that it remains current.

 

Once we have the details of the drugs and doses you are taking we will be better able to assist you.  Have a read of these to start with:

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

And these are helpful too:

 

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

You can use your Intro/Update topic to ask questions about your individual situation and as a journal of your progress.  Also if you click FOLLOW (top right) and be notified when someone responds.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Matthew, 

 

I moved your post to create an introduction for you since this question is not about tapering in general but about your particular situation.  It's one Intro per person, and your Intro is where you can give us your history, ask questions about your situation, give updates, etc.  Please follow Chessie's instructions about filling out your signature block.  This allows the moderators and others to see your situation at a glance rather than having to read your whole thread to tease out information once it gets longer.  Bookmark your intro so you can find it easily.  By clicking "Follow" above, you will be notified when you get a response.

 

Was your father put on meds for depression or anxiety at some point in his life, or was he only medicated after being diagnosed as bi-polar?  

 

Many people end up diagnosed bi-polar after being on antidepressants because they end up causing patients to cycle.  It is iatrogenic, meaning caused by treatment.  Chronic use of antidepressants has been found to make people MORE prone to depression.

 

Given that you've only been on Paxil for three weeks, you could come off fairly easily hopefully without any repercussions.

 

Had you tried therapy before starting this med?  Cognitive behavior therapy is more effective than antidepressants.  You will learn, after spending some time reading links, that antidepressants work no better than placebo but have a host of negatives.  We have lots of information in our Symptoms and Self-Care forum about alternatives.  Here's a link for you:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

These are offered in the light of withdrawal but most information is equally relevant to pre-medicated depression/anxiety.

 

This is of course YOUR choice.   We here at SA are for the most part about getting off of these medications and never starting if given the choice, though in rare and severe instances starting or staying on the meds might be the right path.

 

Three weeks is early enough to hopefully escape unscathed.  I will wait for other mods to chime in on how to go about it if that is what you choose to do.

 

So, read the links provided and come back here with questions.

 

Welcome!

SG

[nz11]

 

Given that you've only been on Paxil for three weeks, if it were me I'd go off - knowing what I now know about how hard it is to come off of ADs and the remodeling they cause in the nervous system.  Paxil is a particularly nasty beast, and we have many members here who are long-time taperers.  

 

This.

 

Boy is this your lucky day for finding sa at this early stage  (im envious) thats for sure.

Its generally accepted that dependancy can be established at a month my own personal opinion is about 2 weeks similar to benzos (apparently 37 of the 42 benzo wdl symptoms are similar (Gotzsche) so why wouldnt dependancy be similar too.

So you are at a tricky moment.

 

If you CT now you could feel it for a few or many months but it may recede very quickly.

Hows this for an idea hold on 15 for 4 days then 10 for 4 days then 5 for 4 days then off. No point taking it for longer than you have to.

Be interesting to hear what others have to say.

 

I have experience of a CT at 6 weeks and it was terrible for about 12 months...i was clueless at the time.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Matthew,

 

Were you taking any drugs prior to Paxil?  Are you on any other drugs currently?

[Fresh]

Hi Matthew , welcome to the site.

 

If you take paxil for longer than a month , you're at risk of developing withdrawal syndrome if you stop it abruptly.  So at 3 weeks , you could taper off quickly and safely as nz11 suggests , and put this behind you.

 

There are many many non-drug techniques to try to help manage and deal with anxiety. See the Symptoms and Self Care section.

 

Please take this opportunity to get out of years  and years of drug dependence and damage.  

 

If you click FOLLOW at the top right , you'll receive an email each time someone posts here.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

[Mattacmotoring]

Thank you all so much for the suggestions. @cchessica I have been taking klonopin for about a month. I will have to taper off of that too. @squirrelygirl I dont really talk to my father that much but he was never on any meds. He said he would have manic episodes every couple months and than be depressed sometimes.he would have 2 or 3 manic episodes a year he said. He said he would get really hyper and sometimes paranoid but he qouldnt stay up for days. So maybe bipolar 2? Thanks again for your suggestions.

[Mattacmotoring]

@nz11 honestly that sounds like a really good idea. I took 15 today and was thinking I would do that for a couple days. Also Idk how much you k ow about ocd but is it normal for ocd and suicidal thoughts to get worse on antidepressant. These last three days have been pretty bad. Today was actually better since I took half my dose. I had intrusive thoughts of suicide and I was shopping and thought I was going to stab some guy. I had to run away from him because I was so scared.

[SquirrellyGirl]

@nz11 honestly that sounds like a really good idea. I took 15 today and was thinking I would do that for a couple days. Also Idk how much you k ow about ocd but is it normal for ocd and suicidal thoughts to get worse on antidepressant. These last three days have been pretty bad. Today was actually better since I took half my dose. I had intrusive thoughts of suicide and I was shopping and thought I was going to stab some guy. I had to run away from him because I was so scared.

 

Yes, these feelings and thoughts are serious side effects of going on these meds.  They cause an IMBALANCE of neuortransmitters when you start them, and the brain/nervous system push back by remodeling to try to bring neurotransmitters back into homeostasis.  In the meantime, the imbalance causes these symptoms.  That is why these drugs carry a black box warning for suicidality, and people have in fact committed homicide when starting them.  I would agree with nz11 about doing a fast taper off.  I would say report these symptoms to your doctor but I don't have much faith in what your doctor would do next.  Switch you to another drug?   They all have the potential to do this. 

 

Just an FYI:  I began a therapy program based on cognitive behavior therapy, and through this program met a "connection buddy" who has been bi-polar.  However, he has been able to greatly change his way of going through this work, such that he can identify when he is getting manic and can use tools to calm himself and not escalate.  Recently he identified a possibly precipitating life event 25 years ago that triggered the first manic period.  It is possible to work with this condition without using medication.

 

SG

[Mattacmotoring]

Do you possibly have a link for the therapy group? If it is possible I would like to join or at least learn more about it. I cant really talk to my doctor since Ive been going to cash clinics because of insurance. I learned after several vvisitsthe doctor that prescribed me the pthe axil was incompetent anyway. I wouldn't doubt they woukd try another drug. Thanks again.

[SquirrellyGirl]

I will send you a PM

 

SG

[ChessieCat]

Hi Matthew,

 

"I have been taking klonopin for about a month. I will have to taper off of that too"

 

Could you please add this to your signature?  It is best if we know the whole history of drugs in order to make tailored suggestions.  Thank you.

[Shep]

Thank you all so much for the suggestions. @cchessica I have been taking klonopin for about a month. I will have to taper off of that too. @squirrelygirl I dont really talk to my father that much but he was never on any meds. He said he would have manic episodes every couple months and than be depressed sometimes.he would have 2 or 3 manic episodes a year he said. He said he would get really hyper and sometimes paranoid but he qouldnt stay up for days. So maybe bipolar 2? Thanks again for your suggestions.

 

Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the forum from me, too.

 

Please be careful with Klonopin and any benzodiazepine. Some people become dependent on that medication in as little as 2 weeks, so that may factor in how you taper your SSRI / benzo combination. 

 

You state you were placed on Klonopin a month ago and Paxil 3 weeks ago - did you have any issues with Klonopin that made your doctor add on Paxil? 

 

As the others have said, I'm so glad you found us this quickly. You may want to read Robert Whitaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic", as it describes how many people are medicated into bipolar disorder. That was my history, but I'm off all drugs and using other forms of treatment.

 

There are other things that can cause the symptoms of bipolar, and Whitaker explores those, as well. 

 

Many people find that proper nutrition, certain forms of exercise, practicing mindfulness, and finding a purpose in life are the keys to recovery. With only a few weeks use, hopefully you'll be recovered and on your way to finding your own path. There are a lot of great things to explore in the Symptoms and Self-Care section:

 

SYMPTOMS AND SELF-CARE FORUM

 

Best of luck to you on your journey. 

[Dan998]

Hi Matthew,
 
Were you started off on 30mg of Paxil? That seems like quite a high dose.
 
"The recommended starting dosage and the established effective dosage is 20 mg/day. There is not sufficient evidence to suggest a greater benefit to doses higher than 20 mg/day. "    Paxil Dosage Guide - Drugs.com
 
Have a read through the very long list of side effects that are on the leaflet that came with your drugs. The higher the dose, the more likely you are to suffer from them. Scary stuff eh?
 
My advice would be to quickly taper off Paxil before it's too late and it gets its hooks into you. Once your brain gets used to SSRI's it becomes very difficult to get off of them. There are ex-heroin addicts who have said that antidepressants are harder to kick than heroin.
 
Save yourself!!!. Run away, far away and stay away.
 

[Mattacmotoring]

I was on klonopin for anxiety and it originally started more as a self medication. My grandma would give them to me. Eventually I got my own script. Unfortuanately I was too ignorant at the time to realize the long term effects of benzos and how toxic of a person my grandma really was. Turns out she's not as good of a person as I thought. Haha. The paxil was prescribed after as a long term treatment of anxiety and ocd after I told the doctor I was taking klonopin. Apparently ocd requires higher doses to work. Idk if this is true or not.

[Dan998]

Like Shep says, there are much better ways to deal with anxiety and ocd than drugs. Cognitive behavioral therapy is my favorite, it is a proven method to cope with many mental disorders. It need not be expensive as there are many free resources online. Just search on goggle for "cbt self help online free" and bazillions of results will come up.

 

What's the situation with the benzos. How long were you on them? Are you still on them now?

[Mattacmotoring]

Yeah in still on them. Its been about a month. I was on and off klonopin and ativan. I was admitted to a psych center after I went to the Er for a really bad panic attack. I told them I was having suicidal thoughts because of the ocd. This was also after I started taking the paxil. They admitted me to a psych center where they gave me the paxil and also ativan for the anxiety. The psychiatrist there also wants to give me an antipsychotics but I basically told him to f off.

[Mattacmotoring]

Would it be helpful to put a daily progress post or something like that. Idk because right now i feel like I got hit by a truck and my hands keep shaking. My hands have been shaking since I was put on this though. Is that a common side effec

[SquirrellyGirl]

Absolutely, you can use your Intro thread to update daily.  It would really help us if you could update your signature, including the K, Ativan, dosages of everything and dates of when these things came into play.  At the end you could put "currently taking A,B,C with dosages.

 

Yes, the shaking hands can be a side effect.  When you say you feel like you were hit by a truck, what exactly are you feeling?  Joint pain, muscle pain, etc?  Dan was right about reading the symptom list from the package leaflet.

 

SG

[SquirrellyGirl]

Matthew, have you begun to taper the Paxil - where are you at with all of this?  I don't want to pressure you as the choice is yours, but just wondering if you have come up with some kind of plan based on what you have learned here so far.  A month of Klonopin use would necessitate a slow taper, but I'm thinking the Paxil should go first because it may not have gotten its hooks into you, yet so a great time to exit that one.

 

Benzos are tricky because they causes rebound anxiety even as you continue to take them.  Have you visited our Benzo forum?  Lots of excellent guidance from the mods over there.

 

Members-only benzo forum

 

SG

[Mattacmotoring]

The hit like a truck feeling is mostly just muscle soreness. I was lying down and I didn't want to get up. It took me awhile to get up because everything hurt. Ive started the taper. In in day 2. I took 15 mgs of my 30mg that i was prescribed. I will more than likely go with something aimilar to nz1s idea.

[Fresh]

Try to keep your use of klonipin etc. to a minimum ... you can get used to them very quickly and need

bigger and bigger doses to get the same effect.

 

Ideally , you will complete your taper off paxil in less time than you took it for total , i.e. three weeks.

It's a good idea to make a set plan and stick to it.

 

Dropping from 30mg to 15mg is huge , and may account for the body pains you have. You will do better

decreasing in 5mg increments from here. Please stay on the 15mg for at least another 2 or 3 days to

avoid developing more severe symptoms. If you stop too quickly , things could take a serious dive.

 

Very good idea to use this thread as a journal to keep tack of things.

 

Most people find magnesium helpful (calming , relaxing). Try reading the thread in Symptoms and Self Care -

you can ingest it , or use it in a bath or spray for sore muscles.

[Mattacmotoring]

Thanks for the suggestion. Ive also heard magnesium is helpful. I take a multivitamin as well as an additional supplement of magnesium oxide, although Ive heard magnesium citrate is better. Ive also heard ssris leech magnesium out of your body leading to a deficiency.

[SkyBlue]

Hi Matthew,

 

Just wanted to say hello and welcome. I am part of the Paxil club too; you can feel free to contact me any time.

 

I'm with nz11, I admit to being a bit jealous that you found this forum so quickly and have been on ADs for such 

a short time. Thankfully, this means that your prognosis is VERY good.

[Mattacmotoring]

Day 2 15mg woke up around 9:00am feeling like I was hit by a truck. I was so sore I couldn't get up for awhile. I have dp/dr before the paxil that is pretty bad but it seems worse now that I'm at a lower dose. Feel like a ghost. Stumbled downstairs to make breakfast. Took half my dose as well as my usual multivitamins. Around 11:00am I started having brainfog and that continued pretty much all day. Watched TV for a while until 1:00pm. I had to pick up my brother and sister. Anxiety was really bad so I had to take klonopin. Pretty sure in dependent on it now. Soreness persisted until then. Watched some more TV until I dropped off brother at baseball practice around 5:00pm and everything was ok until I drove back. I kept having intrusive thoughts of death and suicide. I hurried home to drop my sister off because I was scared I would end up hurting her somehow. Become depressed for a little bit than snap out of it. Made dinner. Went upstairs and laid down around 8:00. Feelings: headache all day, soreness until 1, dp/Dr worse than pre paxil

[Mattacmotoring]

Thought I would keep a daily log of how I feel. If it clutters up the intro page, bothers anyone, or think I should post every other day or anything else let me know and I will stop.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Thought I would keep a daily log of how I feel. If it clutters up the intro page, bothers anyone, or think I should post every other day or anything else let me know and I will stop.

 

There is absolutely no problem with that :-)

 

SG

[Fresh]

That's fine to journal here. The name change will confuse people for a bit .

 

Here's our thread on magnesium http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/?view=findpost&p=87187&hl=magnesium

It really can help with aches and pains , and has a calming effect.

 

You might find it useful to make a table of symptoms that are relevant for you , so you can

rate / monitor them.

See this thread for ideas http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist

Hopefully the violent thoughts will subside soon. When they come , make a conscious decision

to ignore them , or refute them with logic.

[Mattacmotoring]

Thanks for the link on the checklist. That actually looks like its be really helpful.

[Mattacmotoring]

Feeling a lot better today. Really spaced out though. Maybe the depersonalization. Less anxiety but I'm wondering if that means the meds have kicked in which kind of worries me. I notice I also have way more empathy today. Maybe a little too much. I was reading ingridphoenixs thread and watched freshs video that was posted. I almost cried because it looked so horrible. Like so much pain and anguish was resonating through her.

[Dan998]

It's too early to tell whether or not you're hooked. The main thing is that you're feeling better. That's a really good sign.

[Mattacmotoring]

Day 3 15mg nothing unusual happened today except I kept spacing out. It was hard to drive which kind of scared me since I had to pick up my brother and sister. Luckily I was able to snap out of it enough to drive safely. Depersonalization was really bad. Still feel like a ghost. Shep mentioned something about not being able to recognize himself in the mirror. Its happened to me before but now when I look in the mirror its like a whole other person. Mood has significantly improved as well as reduced anxiety which leads me to believe it has kicked in. Before I was stuck in fight or flight mode and constantly panicking. Now in ok but sometimes I feel emotionally lost. Like I have no emotions and then other times I have too many emotions. Its been an ok day though.

[Fresh]

The fluctuating emotions will settle , it's like they're magnified at the moment. It's okay if you cry

easily - that indicates that you won't feel numbed or dulled forever , your emotions are lurching around

as you stabilize.

 

See the thread on neuro-emotions. It can help to acknowledge that our intense responses are over-reactions.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9809-neuro-emotions/

[Mattacmotoring]

day 4 15mg today was an ok day. Took half of the dose along with usual supplements. Immediately start getting anxiety. I had to take klonopin to calm down. It seems like whenever I take the paxil I get anxiety. I was ok after that and actually managed to get out of the house. I took my dog to the park and it was actually pretty relaxing. I did have some trouble concentrating while driving still but overall I feel better. I have been getting hot though for some reason. I took my temperature which was 97.3f which is actually below the normal temperature. Its not hot flashes but its consistently hot. I thought it might be because it was around 80f today but even at night I still feel hot. Is this something Thats normal while taking ad? Or during withdrawal?

[ChessieCat]

 glenmullen_symptoms_AS Appendix 1.pdf

 

This is a list of withdrawal symptoms.  Don't forget that the brain and CNS are intricately related and when the brain is adapting it can causes issues anywhere.  Did you check out the video link I sent previously.  The one with the Rubik's Cube?

[Mattacmotoring]

Ahhh I keep forgetting to print that out and actually use a rating system. Thanks for reminding me at least haha. I dont think I did see it. Was it in the thread or a message.