triplem15

triplem15: Weaning Bupropion

165 posts in this topic

It could just be a new phase of CNS (central nervous system) "rewiring"

 

Brain & CNS adjustments

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Thanks Scallywag for responding. I did think that might be a strong possibility. Just looking for a little feedback. Thank you.

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Hello mods. I am 5 mos. into my reinstatement. Still not where I need to be to make any changes in dose. SLOW progress is being made. Too many changes yet to call it steady WD Normal. I have a question though. Brassmonkey has laid out his very specific plans for cuts and using gel caps to put the dose in. What I need to know is this, has anyone had trouble processing the gel caps in the digestive tract? Also, does anyone have any idea how long it takes the gel caps to dissolve once in the stomach. The reason I ask is because right now, the dose of bupropion I am on, I am getting out of direct cuts on a 75mgai immediate release tab. I am taking 18.75 mgai/ 1/8 of or 9.37mg of the tab twice daily. It is immediate release and I do not use the gel caps at this time. Will the gel caps delay the release?? I am wondering by ? How much? And am hoping the gel caps breakdown easily in the gut so I don't lose a dose. It must be working for Brassmonkey as he has been doing this for several years now. Hopefully you can help with my questions. Thank you. Still allowing adjusting and good and steady to come!!!

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I've probably been using gelatin caps since I started taking Cymbalta in 2012; that's how that medication is produced and sold. In making my own tapered doses I've been using gel caps since May 2016 and have had no problems digesting them. Gelatin is dissolved by your stomach acid and won't delay absorption of a medication by long.

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Hi MMM-- I'm so glad to hear that the reinstatement is going well and that things are starting to settle out. 

 

Gel caps should dissolve in less than 10 minutes after you swallow them.  So there should be no discernible difference in the time it takes for the drugs to start working.

 

They are made from a concentrated form of the desert Jell-o and shouldn't cause stomach problems. They are a meat product, so if you have trouble with eating meat they could cause trouble that way, but they are such a small amount.  There are vegetarian versions available.  I usually recommend getting the "0" size because they are easy to handle and the most popular size for herbalists, making them readily available. If you're worried about exposure to the material and can put up with working with the small  size they are available down to a size 6 which is quite tiny.

 

Brass

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Thank you so much for your support. To both of you with deep sincerity????????

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Hello mods. I just wanted to give an update. It is now just over 6 months since I RI. I am continuing to see slow improvement but still do not believe I am where I need to be to resume my taper. I am still having waves of symptoms both physical and emotion. They are improving yes, but not at what I would say steady. I am wondering this, the physical symptoms seem to parallel the emotional symptoms in intensity for the most part but I have read quite a few accounts of the sad and depressed feelings people have and that those emotions are the last to steady out. Can anyone comment on this as to is this a fact for all and is there a time frame of sorts??? I do feel the sadness and the Neuro fear and anxiety in the waves but in the window is much improved typically. Also, I want to congratulate Brassmonkey as I remember he is getting ready to step off entirely if hasn't done so already.

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Sorry that your post got missed triplem.  Also sorry to say that there is no time-frame - I know the waiting is hard.  There are those for whom emotional symptoms go last, however for some it's physical symptoms that last longer.  I now have pretty much only physical symptoms (since stabilising and getting myself onto a gentle tapering plan).

 

If you are still feeling improvements, then it's a good idea to continue to hold.  I just finished an 8 month hold, and am doing a lot better.  I really recommend waiting till you feel stead and strong. 

 

How are things now (a few weeks since your post)?

Karen

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Hi Karen and thank you for responding. I am now , as of today, 7 months into RI. I have had an extra struggle as I had an eye infection and needed to use antibiotics. That was a little tough. Though I took kefir with them, I still ended up with a secondary yeast infection for which I am still struggling to heal. The added meds on top of fragile Neuro has been a little tough. In the past seven months I have made progress but, I am not there. Not at good and steady. Still have waves and Windows. The waves seem less intense and the Windows, they are beautiful. Thank you for your good advice. I plan to sit on 18.75 mg until this is good and steady. I am in no rush to change dose just wish Neuro would , "come on Neuro, you can do it!!!" I am longing for good and steady. When that day comes, as Brassmonkey has said, I fully intend to " Let the paint dry". Acceptance is a daily , conscious work. I continue to learn and press on. I want to thank you and all of the others for being here. It is so good to know we are not alone. You are all a direct blessing!!!! You held for 8 mos recently, a testament to me again that the process we are on is so very slow. I wish you well as you move forward and thank you again for responding. You know what I would love, I would love to meet you all and be in the same room together. What a blessing that would be!!!! Beautiful faces to all of this encouragement. Now that would be something!!!!

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So good to hear your strong spirit triplem, it'll get you a long way.  I'm going to write this in colour, as my young daughter just glanced at the screen and said I should as it would 'make people happier.'  She also suggests using this:  B)  Well, it won't fix w/d, but I do like how young people see the world.  Sometimes a simple thing is just the ticket.

 

Hang in there,
Karen

x
 

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Thank you Karen. Wow!!! Going through this with young children. I commend you. Yes they see the world so sweetly so often.

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Karen may I ask, was your recent 8 month hold done as a RI or was it a hold amidst regular taper?

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It was a hold amidst a regular taper, done in order to allow my CNS to stabilise better. 

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Hello all. I have a question. I have been prescribed diflucan for a fungal infection. I have to take one pill for six days straight. My question is this; Does the four day steady state rule apply for all drugs??? Because at the end of six days, I have to stop. It must be like a course of antibiotics!? When prescribed we just take them for the allotted time and then we must stop. May seem like a silly question but thought I should put it out there. Thanks.

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The intent and effect of an anti-fungal medication is different from a psychiatric medication. The prescription is for 6 days because that's how long it takes to extinguish the fungal infection.

 

Follow the instructions your doctor/pharmacist has given you.  You could always read up on diflucan on drugs.com or one of many other pharmaceutical web resources.

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Thank you Scallywag. I did read up on it but wasn't sure about the four day steady state application. Thank you again.

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Where's the fungal infection?  I have avoided using drugs to control these (in my toes) by using vinegar topically for 6-8 months (the length of time it takes a new nail to grow).  I know that sounds like a big hassle, but I like to mention it in case you also prefer to avoid drugs. 

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Hi Karen. It is

Vaginal and quite stubborn. I must use the diflucan. It is not my first attempt to get rid of it. It came immediately following course of broad spectrum antibiotics for a cellulitis of my eye. I am however taking fem-dophylus twice daily. Probiotic for vaginal health. Started that about six days ago. Have used in the past also. I wish to extend to you all a peace filled Thanksgiving.

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Hello all you wonderful helpers. Today is just over 9 months since I RI to 18.75 mg of bupropion after the heels of a crash. I first want to say I am so grateful for this site. Thank you Altostrata for developing it. Thank you all for being here!!!!

 

Secondly, guess what, I am still not at good and steady. I am recovering oh so slowly. Yet, I am noticing and recording all of the tiny changes. As Brassmonkey advised, it is better to make these evaluations quarterly because as he stated, day to day, and week to week, there is so much variability. I cannot tell anyone here how challenging this experience is and has been as we all know!!!! I am learning, oh I am learning. As CS Lewis once said, " there is no greater teacher than a bit of life experience".

 

Today, I am in a fairly stable window and the process has been and continues to be wave and window. My plan is to sit here at 18.75mg for as long as it takes to reach good and steady, then I will resume my taper. Patience and long suffering have been the hands I have held and continue to grasp.

 

I have recently read the book I was blessed to find by her name on this site, Recovery and renewal, by Baylissa Frederick. I reference it regularly. A must read!!!! Another precious voice of truth and recovery from withdrawal.

 

The road is long but I am going one moment at a time. Hopeful for so much more and grateful for what I have recovered oh so slowly. Thank you all for being here. Jamie Lea.

Edited by scallywag
added paragraph breaks

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What a lovely message Jamie. You have been searching and are starting to find the way. I know you will be successful as you have the right attitude and sentiment.  Well done , you.

 

Looking forward to hearing more about your healing.

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Thank you Ali, you have been in my thoughts regularly and my prayers. I hope you are finding brighter days and days of peace. Thank you Ali????

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Jamie. Thank you. I am coming out of my wave. I am starting to find some peace and I hope you will too , very soon. I know you will get there. Just be patient and hang in there.

Hugs,

Ali

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I have a question and wondering if someone can help me better understand? I have done quite a bit of reading on the site. I have a very good understanding of neuro emotion. I too live with them in the waves. Iatrogenic in nature. Exaggerated over normal. Quite frankly, sometimes they don't even make sense. It is my understanding that over time and with healing, they ease and will eventually return to a more normal, if not normal state. What I am wondering is this, what do people mean when they talk about " in the end, when healing occurred, they recovered their emotions". Does this mean that the persons emotions were blunted by the drug? As I have read, SSRI's do cause people to lose their ability to cry. Is this what people are communicating, they have a return of their emotions, or that the neuro emotions have balanced, or both??? Thanks.

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Hi everyone. I need some help. I am really struggling. I am 11 months into my RI. I am NOT at good and steady. My neurology tolerates no medicine. Barely a Tylenol. Here is my struggle. I am trying to stay well and avoid cold and flu. To the point of staying completely away from busy places and even family that I love who have symptoms. I feel crazy!!! I never used to think twice about this. Please help.

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Ok, I would like two ask a couple of questions. I am not trying to be offensive at all when I ask this, I truly am wanting to know, why is it that sometimes when I send a question out, I do not get a response? Perhaps I can be educated on something I do not know about how the site works or am I doing something incorrectly? Secondly, has anyone ever read anything explaining why some people can get on an antidepressant, be on it for 20 plus years, never have a dose change, and never have 'poop out' occur??? Then, there are those like many on this site, who reach this Poop out, and the dose had been increased or another drug added. Is there something in the biology / make- up of people? I am really trying to understand more and more.

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Hi MMM--  it's nothing personal, just the sad truth that sometimes questions get over looked. And believe me, every mod here feels bad about it when we find that it has happened.  In the past year and a half the membership for the site has almost doubled while the number of mods has pretty well stayed the same with the number of new ones balancing out the number of ones who  have dropped by the wayside.  Every subject imaginable has been covered at some point in the various discussions that have happened here, and we try to encourage people to do site searches and to dig through that treasure trove of information before asking.

 

Even the companies who manufacture these drugs don't know how they work, so it's pretty much impossible to answer your question of why some people get off so easily.  There aren't even good numbers as to how many people are affected is what way.  From what I have researched it appears the about 20% of the people taking ADs/APs have no problem with them.  The rest of us "lucky ones" have all the "fun".  We do know that biology, hormones, and every other system in the body is affected by these drugs and the inner reactions of those systems is a major part of the symptoms that we feel.  That's why it's such a balancing act to try and taper off of them with the least amount of discomfort.

 

Emotional blunting is a very frequent symptom/side effect  of these drugs.  While blunted the "normal emotions" are sometimes replaced by drug induced false "neuroemotions".  As a person tapers off of the drug the neuroemotions tend to decrease as the effects of the drug decreases.  At the same time "normal emotions" start to reappear causing the person  distress because they are hard to tell apart and the normal emotions have to be sorted out and learned how to be controlled. By the time all the drugs have been removed from ones system and the body has had time to heal people will have recovered their emotions to around their predrug state.  The process of being drugged, tapering and recovery however is very emotionally taxing and has lasted many years so, even though the emotions have returned, they are felt and reacted to in a different manner.  So it is impossible to come out of the process and be the exact same person who went in.  Even people who were not drugged would change over the course of the years involved, they just would have had different experiences.

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Brass monkey, thank you so much for your explanations and time you dedicate to this site. I am thankful for all of the moderators. I am thankful for this site!!! I have a question yet again, approximately how many people are members of this site? You mention the membership has doubled in the last year, how telling??? It appears that people want off of these drugs and perhaps more and more are running into terrible trouble getting off???

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Yes, as I process more of what you have said about normal emotion being blunted, yes, I believe I can see it. While on the full dose of the bupropion, I would tell you, I was more detached about many things that before the drug, would have bothered me much more. Of course, now these emotions seem to be coming 'out of the deep freeze' if you will, and with the taxing process, well, even more difficult as you say. Thank you for your help and insight.

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As of a few minutes ago we have 7624 members. Not even a drop in the bucket compared to how many people are taking these drugs world wide.  That's not the whole story though.  At any one time we have an average of about 15 members on line with us, but at the same time there will be about 10X that many visitors.  So we usually have about 125 people viewing the site at any one time.  Before it closed down Paxilprogress had around 11000 members and about the same rate of visitors.  I don't know the "hit rate" for SA but PP was getting around 3 million "hits" a month when it closed.

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UNBELIEVABLE!!!! With so many people in need, why was Paxil progress closed??? One more question, how to make a connection with others??? This seems difficult. Just an observation, i know from reading on the site that SSRI and SNRI are very difficult to come off of as I have read over and over, I have only ever been on bupropion and my experience has been very hard. I have many of the withdrawal symptoms of those coming off of the other types. Much of my story is very much the same, Length of time I was on, 8.5 years is one factor of influence. As you have said previously, the brain remodels and becomes dependant. It seems that Withdrawal is withdrawal!!!! Very hard!!!

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If you click on the tags at the top of the page, top left just under the title of this topic, it will bring up members who also have that drug tag.  The way to make connections is to visit other members' topics and make a post.  You don't have to tell them your full history because they can always check your topic here if they want to know more about your situation.

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Thank you so much Chessycat????

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Chessiecat ????

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I have a question for anyone out there who might have some insight into this. The question I have is this, many of the antidepressants affect the same neurotransmitters as illegal drugs, i.e. Cocaine for dopamine and norepinephrine and serotonin, amphetamines for dopamine, and others, yet, we on antidepressants do not crave the antidepressant yet, our brains and CNS are dependent on the antidepressant, similar to the dependency on illegal drugs. I have heard many say it is easier to withdraw from street drugs. Here is my question: how can that be true??? If our CNS become dependent wether illegal or legal, I should think that the WD process might be equally difficult pending variables of time used, etc. the chemical imbalance occurs with all of them. The CNS must repair from all of them. It seems to me the only difference is one is written out on a script pad legally issued by ' first do know harm' providers. Any light to be shed on this would be appreciated.

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A few days ago I sent out my post inquiring about illegal vs legal drugs and the neurotransmitters being targeted the same by both. I never heard back from anyone on this. Today, after beginning to read my book, surviving Americas depression epiddmic, written by Bruce Levine Phd, I did get confirmation of what I believed to be truth. For anyone interested, beginning in chapter 1, titled, we are lost but making good time, beginning on page 13-16, he lays out the answer to this very nicely. But, I will summarize, we have been sold a bill of goods. Maybe most of us know this now, but really, the hypocrisy is incredible. Picking the poison, legal or illegal??? They work the same. The biochemistry of the brain and CNS doesn't know the difference between legal or illegal. Thanks for letting me post.

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A few days ago I sent out my post inquiring about illegal vs legal drugs and the neurotransmitters being targeted the same by both. I never heard back from anyone on this. Today, after beginning to read my book, surviving Americas depression epiddmic, written by Bruce Levine Phd, I did get confirmation of what I believed to be truth. For anyone interested, beginning in chapter 1, titled, we are lost but making good time, beginning on page 13-16, he lays out the answer to this very nicely. But, I will summarize, we have been sold a bill of goods. Maybe most of us know this now, but really, the hypocrisy is incredible. Picking the poison, legal or illegal??? They work the same. The biochemistry of the brain and CNS doesn't know the difference between legal or illegal. Thanks for letting me post.

 

The only difference between "legal" and "illegal" is if a company can patent it, make a profit on it, and their buddies at the FDA approve it. Drugs that do what these things do are just bad. Yes, some people do get relief from them and lead seemingly normal lives. And some people stop using them and seem to live normal lives. But the vast amount of people appear to now either be on them for life, with all of the side-effects, or going through withdrawal like we are.

 

SJ

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