Jump to content

If you find useful information here, your gift would help keep this site going. Our staff is entirely volunteer.

Photo

triplem15: Weaning Bupropion

Wellbutrin bupropion

  • Please log in to reply
148 replies to this topic

#37 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 18 May 2016 - 04:21 AM

Thank you SG, it helps to hear from all and know you are there!!!!
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#38 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 18 May 2016 - 04:35 AM

Thank you SG, it helps to hear from all and know you are there!!!! Do you notice less of the withdrawal symptoms at the smaller cuts. I sure am praying so. I am trying to get good and steady so that I am in a strong place before I begin the taper again. Will do a little grieving along the way also :).
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#39 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 09 June 2016 - 12:59 PM

Hello all. Today is 50 days/ 7 weeks into reinstatement of 18.75 mg. I am still continuing to have waves and Windows. No where near ready to think I would taper. My plan is to watch the patterns. I am recording and I am listening to my body. I am planning the entire summer at this dose and maybe longer. Just want to touch base. I really want to be strong before I attempt this further!!! You all have eluded to the idea that the longer I hold, the stronger I will become. Allowing my very fragile Neuro system to heal. Can I get a witness to this??? Thanks.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#40 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:07 PM

Also, I am wondering, when I do some day start to taper again, providing I allow my Neuro plenty of time to adjust here, will I be more sensitive to dose reductions in the future due to this period of destabilizing and rebuilding??? My plan is 5 to 10 percent only when the time comes. Right now all I want to do is build steady!!!!
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#41 SquirrellyGirl

SquirrellyGirl

    Gold star

  • Moderators
  • 1,350 posts
  • Locationnear Fresno, CA

Posted 09 June 2016 - 07:52 PM

It's by process of elimination for me, triplem15 - we have seen too many people begin to taper on the heels of a crash (after too aggressive tapering) continue to have problems and not be able to feel decent between cuts.  I do think crashes sensitize the nervous system to even modest cuts.

 

I tapered much too fast off Effexor after 12 years of use.  During those 12 years, I went way up, and then dropped down by full pill increments until I was at 37.5 mg and generally not doing great, still feeling depressed.  I don't recall have obvious withdrawal symptoms after those big cuts, but I did have greater reactivity to stress, and periods of cognitive dysfunction (gee, I guess I'm just a dumb blonde after all LOL!).

 

After I came off, it took a long time for the withdrawal to build, until by 10 months out I was DESPERATE, horribly apathetic, depression, anxious, all the usual extreme versions of such.  After stabilizing for too short a period I began the slow taper, but definitely felt withdrawal symptoms, had to calm myself down about trying to taper two meds.  Now, things are going well, but I have a background sense that my system is very fragile.  I've had to hold recently because of life events, felt I was barely staying above the "line."  I feel the little waves of anxiety that I never was tuned into when I never noticed when dropping the dosage before trying to come off.

 

I hope that somehow explains it.  I think you are wise to hold over summer.  I think when you resume tapering, you will be more solid and have a less eventful time of it.

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg.  As of 4/12/17:  Effexor 12.4 mg  Remeron 5.9 mg.

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#42 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 10 June 2016 - 04:03 PM

SG, if I may ask you, what was too short a period of time , how long did you wait before tapering and then still felt withdrawal??? When you mentioned stabilizing and then tapering too soon? I know we are all different yet we are the sensitive ones. That is why we are on this forum right. So , I do and will listen to my body, but I am really trying to get a good handle on holding. Is there such a thing as holding too long???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#43 SquirrellyGirl

SquirrellyGirl

    Gold star

  • Moderators
  • 1,350 posts
  • Locationnear Fresno, CA

Posted 10 June 2016 - 05:17 PM

No, I don't think there is such a thing as holding too long, though of course the objective is to get off the meds for better future health :-)

 

So, I was horribly unstable and was put on mirtazapine around mid-March of 2015.  It really didn't work and I kept raising the dosage hoping it would.  Finally, the first week of June, my doctor decided to reinstate 37.5 mg of Effexor since I had "tolerated it well in the past."  I felt better almost immediately.  I didn't even consider that my doctor imposed a 20% cut of Remeron on me by dropping it from 37.5 to 30 mg when the Effexor was added back!  I was then learned about SA and protracted withdrawal, and I was horrified that I was now on 2 drugs rather than one, all due to nobody recognizing PAWS from Effexor!  So, after one month, I began tapering.  Much too soon, but I was an eager beaver!

 

And so I had some windows and waves in the midst of tapering.  I was cutting both meds.  I finally got my bearings on the forum and began to understand that I needed to slow things down, be patient, stabilize, and then focus on one.  Ok, I cheated and have nudged my Effexor down ever so gradually, 1 mgpw (mg pill weight) every two weeks, while focusing on the mirtazapine since that was the most recently added drug, didn't want it to get dug into me.

 

The mods recommend stabilizing for 2-3 months after a crash before resuming tapering.  If someone has come to us having made 50% cuts and then crashing, I will recommend up-dosing a bit and then holding a good while, perhaps as long as it would have taken to get to that point doing a 10% taper.  The nervous system can't be rushed to make its adjustments which is why people get into such trouble cutting too big too often.

 

Yes, we are the sensitive ones here.   I have my observations, though.  I have seen people on other forums say they had no trouble cutting drug x in the past, yet now they are back on drug x and are now having trouble.  My question is, why did you go back on drug x to begin with?  I speculate that the person did in fact have delayed protracted withdrawal but it was seen as a relapse, so they were put back on.  Not all of us have the big WD symptoms right after coming off; I didn't, never have had a brain zap :-)

 

Stops/starts, switching drugs, ups and downs, all sensitize the nervous system and make it more touchy about even small changes.  It really is key to listen to one's body and not push things just because the calendar says it's been four weeks.

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg.  As of 4/12/17:  Effexor 12.4 mg  Remeron 5.9 mg.

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#44 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 11 June 2016 - 04:22 AM

Thank you SG. You guys have been such a blessing!!!! I am holding, listening, building strong now!!!! Praying for patience!!! Would much prefer safe and slow and steady to the aweful experience of too quick, too much , and crash!!!! Thank you again. God bless you!!!!
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#45 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 11 June 2016 - 05:10 AM

SG,, what are your thoughts about the delayed withdrawal responses and antidepressants ? I have heard this several times now, people taper too fast, get off the drug, things seem fine, and months later, they have such a delayed response, as you did. It seems that after 10 mos out, that would have been enough time to adjust??? " sneak the drug away" is what so many have said. Another word, I hope you life experiences settle soon and go well so you may continue forward. Thanks again, Jamie.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#46 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:09 AM

Hello, I am now two months in at 18.75 mg reinstatement. I have noticed some positive small improvements but over the past 10 days I have struggled with nightmares and just strange dreams. No rhyme or reason to it so it seems. I did read somewhere that this can be a part of withdrawal. I will plan to hold steady here but I am hoping some mods can speak to this issue. In a wave today and just makes all seem worse. Any thoughts???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#47 SquirrellyGirl

SquirrellyGirl

    Gold star

  • Moderators
  • 1,350 posts
  • Locationnear Fresno, CA

Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:08 PM

Hi triplem, 

 

Sorry to hear you are now plagued by nightmares.  It is yet another symptom that part of your brain is adjusting and adapting.  How has your mood been during the day?  I read one post where someone said they had anger/rage during the day which manifested as nightmares at night?  Are you practicing any kind of mindfulness?

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg.  As of 4/12/17:  Effexor 12.4 mg  Remeron 5.9 mg.

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#48 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:49 PM

Hi SG. I have been sort of steady in the Windows, generally ok. This whole experience has been pretty scarey though. Much of time I am trying to work emotions of fear and anxiety. Not feeling angry. In the waves I have tears on and off. I read tearfulness is common with bupropion withdrawal. Interesting is that the unusual dreams run the all over. Stuff that just is out there. This is interesting to me SG, my moms twin died last Christmas. My sister died 8 years ago, my mom had a Dr visit today and she now needs s lung biopsy. Last night all three of them were in my weird and scarey dream. I went to dr visit with my mom today, knew for some time that I was going to be going. We have been following her for a cancer she had removed off leg 3 months ago and cannot find primary site. Just weird that all three of them were in my scarey dream. I am working hard on mindfulness and CBT. No expert but working hard.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#49 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:56 PM

SG, though I am starting to notice small improvements, I am getting the feeling that I will be on this dose for many months. As I had mentioned, it has been 61 days today and just starting to notice somewhat longer window times. From what I am understanding, it can take many months to stabilize out. Would this be correct? I know two months is not a good long time as Brassmonkey had spoken of, do, I do wonder what he meant by good long time???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#50 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:58 PM

Adjusting and adapting sounds encouraging to me:).
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#51 SquirrellyGirl

SquirrellyGirl

    Gold star

  • Moderators
  • 1,350 posts
  • Locationnear Fresno, CA

Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:58 PM

Well, shoot, it's no wonder all three came together in one scary dream!  There's a lot of significance there surrounding potential loss.  In withdrawal, our brains take what would be stress for anyone and blow it up to extremes.   I'm sorry you are going through this with your mom, really tough to handle while in withdrawal.  You doing a great job doing your self-care.

 

I've had some pretty off-the-wall dreams over the last year, had nightmares in protracted withdrawal and was having some pretty vivid dreaming when at a slightly higher dose of mirtazapine than now.  Thankfully, that has calmed down, not that they were bad dreams but just really strange and vivid!  It's an ever-changing landscape :-)

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg.  As of 4/12/17:  Effexor 12.4 mg  Remeron 5.9 mg.

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#52 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 21 June 2016 - 04:09 PM

When I up dosed to the 18.75 mg 2 months ago , it was about a 5 mg increase. I read from James Heaney, that if the reinstatement is small, it takes longer to stabilize. I do realize that I am sensitized to the drug now so would not want to increase. Just trying to make sense of the time potential for really stabilizing.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#53 brassmonkey

brassmonkey

    Platinum star

  • Moderators
  • 2,433 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 21 June 2016 - 05:03 PM

Hi MMM-- It sounds like your RI is progressing pretty well.  Getting longer windows and seeing small improvements are all good signs. This process can be frustratingly slow, when all we want is to feel better.  "A good long time" could be defined as "as long as it takes".  That's not meant to be a smarta** answer.  There really is no way of telling who is going to take how long.  Some people stabilize in a couple of weeks, many in 2-3 months while some can take six months or more.  With the improvements you're seeing I would guess it should be soon.  It's not like a light switch is going to be thrown and you suddenly feel better.  More like things average out to a general level of okay on a day after day basis.  It's what I call WDnormal, the over all baseline from which you can tell if you feel better or worse.


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mg it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2016

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking


#54 SquirrellyGirl

SquirrellyGirl

    Gold star

  • Moderators
  • 1,350 posts
  • Locationnear Fresno, CA

Posted 21 June 2016 - 05:30 PM

I think there was some posting back and forth at the same time so my post might have seemed incongruous!  I agree with Brass, that things seem to be going well for you.  Yes, reinstating at a very small dose means the discrepancy between that dose and where your system had healed to while you were off may still be large enough that it might take months.  It is your choice to either wait patiently for your nervous system to get caught up to that level, or up-dose a tiny bit more.  If. overall, your symptoms are tolerable, it would probably be best to hang tight because then you have that much less to taper.  You will be experiencing windows and waves throughout the process of getting caught up.  Sometimes a wave will be worse than those before it, which can cause people to panic and think they need to DO something about it, but usually doing nothing but self-care gets you through to the next window.  So, chart your symptoms daily so you can identify patterns; patterns then help you remain calm because you know that wave will be ending.

 

I am so glad you are noticing improvements!

 

Adjusting and adapting sounds encouraging to me:).

 

Yes, it helps to see withdrawal symptoms as positive signs that healing is happening!  

 

SG


Prozac 1995-1999, don't remember the dosage; Wellbutrin 1999-2002? Don't remember dosage though it was in the 300 mgs range
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Did fast taper, don't remember details, around August 2014.
Took Sam-E 200 mg AM and 500 mg L-tryptophan PM Sept.2014 to January 2015

Doing poorly, put on Viibryd 10 mg for 1 wk, 20 mg for several days, BAD ANXIETY, fast taper to 0 in a week; back on Sam-E 200 mg AM and L-tryptophan 500 mg PM until April 10, 2015; doing very badly, put on Remeron 7.5 mg start April 15-April 30, 2015; Increased Remeron from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly,

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  On p-doc's orders went up to 75 mg Effexor June 11-12, then back to 37.5 mg when I realized all the hell I had been through before was WD from Effexor!  Joined SA and began tapering both too soon one month later.

8/22/15: Effexor to 30.75 mg, Remeron to 22 mg. 9/9/15 Effexor 30 mg/Remeron 21 mg. 9/24/15: Remeron 19 mg. 10/25/16: Remeron 17 mg. 11/14/15:  Effexor 28.5 mg 12/2/15: Remeron 16 mg. 12/5/15: Effexor 28.1 mg. 12/17/15: Remeron 15 mg. 1/26/16: Remeron 14 mg. 3/22/16, Remeron 13.5 mg and Effexor 25.9 mg (had nudged it down by fraction of a mg since Dec).  4/28/16: Remeron 13 mg, Effexor 25.5 mg.  5/21/16: Remeron 12 mg, Effexor 24.75 mg.  6/17/16, Effexor 23.25 mg, Remeron 11.6 mg. 7/12/16:  Remeron 11 mg, Effexor 22.12 mg.  9/22/16:  Effexor 19.5 mg, Remeron 9 mg.  As of 4/12/17:  Effexor 12.4 mg  Remeron 5.9 mg.

 

My intro: http://survivinganti...e-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.


#55 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:42 AM

Thank you to both of you. I will wait patiently. Woke to a window this AM. Wow, that always helps. I will wait it out. Not making a move!!! Thanks again.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#56 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:46 AM

Just thought I would like to say this for the record. Tapering bupropion is very difficult for some of us. I have read several things alluding to it being an easier AD to come off of. I strongly disagree. Thanks all.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#57 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 23 June 2016 - 12:46 PM

Ok Mods, I need some advice. Has anyone had to cope with nightmares??? Every other night, bizarre and wake up in great fear. Fight or flight well underway when I awaken. Very hard to settle even with mindfulness and breathing. I have told you I am 64 days in to RI and these started two weeks ago. Not sure how to deal with the extreme fear and anxiety as a result of way active fight or flight as I awake. Please help.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#58 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 23 June 2016 - 12:49 PM

Is this something that will settle down??? Seems to always bring into a wave or wave is already coming??? Harvard site does say they can be a symptom of withdrawal. Hyper Neuro, hard to go back to sleep.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#59 scallywag

scallywag

    Platinum star

  • Moderators
  • 3,989 posts
  • LocationOntario, Canada

Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:24 PM

Nightmares and vivid dreams are effects of taking the drug and of withdrawal. If you do a simple search on the website for "nightmares" there will be at least 5 pages of results, so you're not alone with this. It's rotten that this terrifying and disturbing symptom is visiting you in this wave. It won't last. 

 

You might want to have a look at or reread a topic JanCarol suggested to you in May:  Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5;
Current dose: 4.5 mg (42) 2017-Apr-14
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#60 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 23 June 2016 - 05:16 PM

Thanks Scallywag. Working on this. I really am. CBT and Mindfulness. I am glad you say it won't last. That is what I am hoping for!!!! Thanks again for the links.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#61 KarenB

KarenB

    Platinum star

  • Moderators
  • 2,310 posts
  • LocationRaglan, New Zealand

Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:13 PM

I am also prone to nightmares during waves, so I really feel for you having to go through that.  When I have them I try to wake up properly - maybe turn on the lamp, have a drink of water etc.  In the morning I've heard it can be helpful to put your feet in a basin of water - with the idea of leaving behind the nightmares. 

 

They should start to ease up.


2010 May Fluoxetine 20mg. Raging mostly stops, become more functional.
2011 February Escitalopram 10mg (sudden switch). 2012 January Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Early June Feeling great, decide to taper. Doc advises alternate days 20mg/10mg for 4 weeks.  Late June Steady. Drop to 10mg daily. Early July Not coping, raging, flu symptoms, shaky, anxious, low, spaced-out, self-destructive.  Mid July Return to alternate days 20mg/10mg - minimal improvement. Early August Return to full dose 20mg. Lost.
2014 February Switch to Venlafaxine. (First reduced Esc. to 10mg/day for a week) Feb-April Lost, 'light' self-harm, exhausted.
April Increase Ven. to 150mg/day. Dizzy. July 75mg twice a day to improve dizziness. Deep depression remains.  2015 Feb Vigilant dose spacing partially eases dizziness. Mar Switch to Effexor 75mg 2x/day. May Cut 10% to 135mg - bad w/d 2 mths, held 1 mth.  Aug 1.3% cut - bad 1mth, held 1mth. Oct 4 wkly 0.4% cuts held 6 weeks. Jan 2016 2 wkly 0.4% cuts. 8 month hold. Sept Wkly cuts: 0.5%, 3 1% cuts.  Oct 4 wkly 1% cuts, hold 3-4 weeks.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamins E & C, magnesium, iron, MSM, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.  My story of healing: ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor or counselor; please do your own research and be prepared to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.


#62 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 27 June 2016 - 01:46 PM

Thank you Karen. It has been difficult with the interruption of sleep. My waves and window pattern in every other day alternating. Is this going to space out over time??? It is hard to get back to sleep at times due to hyper alert Neuro after a nightmare. I do work through it with breathing and just feeling it and trying to just let it be what it is. It's tough!!! Hoping for improvement over time.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#63 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 27 June 2016 - 01:56 PM

I do have a question, waves and Windows, I guess I am thinking they can be different for everyone, as I mentioned above, mine come and go like every other day right now, I am hoping as time goes by, these will space apart more and not be as intense with Neuro emotion. Also, what is it that is happening that sometimes sleep can be decent but then no?? Is it the readjusting taking place??? I am a real rookie. Now in a club I and all of you never thought we would be in.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#64 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 28 June 2016 - 07:11 AM

I do believe my questions were answered by Brassmonkey just a bit ago, and SG. Thanks , Waiting can be so difficult.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#65 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 02 July 2016 - 03:50 PM

Hello. I have a question for Brassmonkey. As you probably remember, I am not tapering at this time, still stabilizing on 18.75 mg. I note that Brassmonkey is now tapering by pill weight. What does that mean exactly? I have a mg scale and when I was tapering previously, I would figure out the dose by percent but based on the full pill weight. Is this what you mean Brassmonkey? Are you figuring your mg strength off of the original pill weight? Please clarify this for me and congratulations at your incredible progress over 4 years. WOW , I am admiring you. As you have tapered so slowly, have you had much in regard to withdrawal symptoms???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#66 brassmonkey

brassmonkey

    Platinum star

  • Moderators
  • 2,433 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 02 July 2016 - 05:45 PM

Hi MMM-- I'm glad to see that you're not rushing things and still working on getting good and stable.  This would be a good time to work on sharpening your skills with mindfullness and some of the self care techniques that are talked about elsewhere on the site.  It's best to work on them while ones mind is clear and not have to try and learn them if the need arises.

 

When a person tapers using a scale to measure their dose it actually is done using percentages of the pill weight, because that's the way we have to weigh it.  Because all pills are not created equal weight we then translate the pill weight into AI (active ingredient) weigh to give us a common measurement to work with when we discuss our tapers.

 

I have conducted my entire taper using 40mg paxil tablets.  They weigh 500mg each. To calculate each dose reduction I would do the following; (previous dose in pill weight) X .9 = new dose in pill weight.  This would be the amount I would weigh out.  But it would not equal the same pill weight dose of someone who was using 20mgai tablets, or someone using a different manufacturers tablets.  So to compare notes we need to use the AI calculation: (previous dose weight AI) X .9 = new dose in AI weight.

 

Using a 40mgai tablet at 500mgpw makes it so that each 1mgpw gives me 0.08mgai.  This was workable until I got down to the tiny doses. I have been using the Brassmonkey Slide Method for my entire taper and wanted to keep using it as long as possible. This entails doing 4 cuts of 2.5% a week for 4 weeks and then holding an additional 2 weeks.  When I started to taper below 3mgai this was not physically possible because of the limitation of the scales only weighing in 1mgpw increments. So I switched to tapering by 1mgpw and adjusted the number of cuts per slide accordingly. In that manner I was able to keep each slide under 10%.  At first I was able to maintain 3 cuts per slide but then had to adjust to two cuts.  Recently I've had to resort to 1 cut each time and with the last cut I'm being forced to do more that 10%. I don't think this will be a problem as I only have three cuts left before I plan to jump off. The jump will be at about 2mgpw or 0.16mgai. The amount of powder is about half the size of this "o".  The symptoms from each cut have been negligible at worst so I see no problem with this.

 

My taper has been a very long, slow, but stead process. It has been a true 10% every 6 weeks with one extended hold at the 10mgai point and a couple of extra weeks thrown in during the end game.  It will end up being five years almost to the day when I make the jump.  For the most part the improvements in symptoms have been pretty linear on a quarterly basis. Day to day, week to week they have been quite variable.  I was in hardcore poopout when this all started so any change was for the better.  It took about 6 months for the improvements to registrar, and most of 2 years before I could state that I was making real headway.  After the third year I was feeling improvements with each drop, after the initial uptick from the drop settled out. During the last year I have seen most of the symptoms drop away.  I still have a lot of fatigue and muscle weakness and my cognitive functions are still not where I would like them to be, but they are all steadily improving.

 

Comparing myself with others (which we shouldn't do) I would have to say that I have done very well.  Friends who have tapered using the straight 10% method seemed to have a harder time with each cut than I did and seemed to take longer to recover from each cut. They are, however, doing well and recovering nicely.  Other friends who CTed from similar doses at the same time are not fairing as well.  They are showing marked improvements, but are still suffering quite badly.

 

Long answer to a short question, hope it helps.


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mg it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2016

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking


#67 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 03 July 2016 - 04:45 AM

Thank you Brassmonkey. What a strong testament to the slow steady taper. What perseverance. You have to be so pleased!!! I am for you!!!! So, if I may ask , my bupropion tablet is 75mgai and 47mgpw. I have been getting my 18.75 mg by quartering the tablet and then split that into 1/8 of the total tablet to get my 9.75 magi. When the time comes for me to make the first cut, I would like to make the first couple by 5 percent to see how I do. My symptoms do not begin to show until 5-10 days out due to the metabolites clearing. I plan to wait 6-8 weeks between the first cuts to see how they affect me. So, Brassmonkey, can you help me do the math equation on the first cut? At 5 percent I will drop from 18.75 to 18mg. I sure would appreciate this. Then I will get it for the rest of the cuts. I really have been working hard on mindfulness meditation. Bought the book that Mark Williams wrote with the eight weeks of training. On week one. Working it!!! Thank you Brassmonkey. I am so happy for you!!!
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#68 brassmonkey

brassmonkey

    Platinum star

  • Moderators
  • 2,433 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:12 AM

Hi MMM-- I think there is a typo in your post  " my bupropion tablet is 75mgai and 47mgpw."  The mgai can never be more that the mgpw.

 

Do you have a set of jewelers scales for weighing your doses?  Cutting the tablets is okay in the beginning, but now things need to be more accurate. The amount you need to remove to go from 18.75 to 18 is physically very small and trying to do it by eye will be very inaccurate.

 

Sounds like a good plan for the start of the taper.  I'll be glad to help with the math, just need the correct numbers to start with.  The weight of a full tablet and the strength will be plenty.


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mg it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2016

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking


#69 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:39 AM

Thank you Brassmonkey. I sure would appreciate this. I do not have jeweler scale. I can buy one. I have what I believed is a mg scale that I bought off of Amazon. I can maybe get a jeweler a scale on Amazon???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#70 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:45 AM

Do I need two??? You said a set. And where do I get it or them???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#71 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:30 AM

I am thinking as I am reading, so I have another question. You mentioned the others having more difficulty and needing longer times to adjust by using the straight 10 percent method... Do you think it is because it is so much more drastic than your slide??? I mean seems like it might be. So, my thought now is... If I can tolerate the 5 percent cuts initially, at first giving myself plenty of time to notice withdrawal intensity and recovery , like say the six to eight week period I mentioned, if that seems to go well, perhaps , over time, it would make more sense to stay at the 5 percent cuts but maybe move them closer together. Like maybe every 3 to 4 weeks. ( Not sure I could do your slide because of the timing of when I notice symptoms due to metabolites. Up to two weeks out for me!!! ) Not as drastic as the straight 10 percent. You obviously know what I am saying because of the effectiveness of your slide , right??! What are your thoughts on this Brassmonkey???
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.

#72 triplem15

triplem15

    Silver star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • LocationAppleton , WI.

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:34 AM

I guess time will tell. The real telling will be in the doing and monitoring effects.
I do take Flonase,also take Zyrtec on and off. Maybe twice per week. I am on Vit. C, B-complex, Vit. D, selenium, Vit E, fish oil, and l-lysine and thats it. No street drugs. No alcohol. 9/2006 Welbutrin XL 150mg, Began Weaning June 15, 2015, Alternating days, changed each mos. Oct 2015 switch to Immediate release 37.5mg. mid october 2015 down to 18.75, (9.37mg twice daily. stayed there one mos.) Dec 2015 down to 9.37mg in AM and 7mg in PM, January 2016 down to 7mg AM and 4.6mg in PM. 4/5/16 cut down what I thought was 2.5 to 3mg. From 4/16/16 until yesterday, was not doing well. 4/20/16, 37.5mg yesterday for first time. 4/21/16 Two days now on 37.5mg. 4/22/16 took monitors advise and dropped dose to 18.75, split dose ,twice daily, now holding.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Wellbutrin, bupropion