Probiotics and gut health

[FeralCatman]

Here is a great article on the link between stress and the microbiome. Since withdrawal is causative of severe stress it's no wonder so many people have issues with gut function and food.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5736941/

 

 

[modelarz71]

On 3.06.2023 at 16:26, Estman said:

Suplementy Betaina/Pepsyna wydają mi się nieodpowiednie.
Brałem je przez 2 tygodnie do każdego posiłku.
Chociaż zmniejszało wzdęcia i gazy po posiłkach, powodowało podrażnienie żołądka
. Kiedy przestałem brać suplement diety, miałem gorsze trawienie i silne gazy. kilka dni, szczególnie wieczorem.
Kilka dni temu myślałem, że stymuluję ręką pęcherzyk żółciowy, ale to pogorszyło stan zapalny.
Ja również popełniłem błąd i wziąłem 1 kapsułkę suplementu diety z żółcią wołową, aby wspomóc trawienie i zneutralizować kwas żołądkowy, ale szybko pogorszyło to sytuację.
Wygląda na to, że mam refluks żołądkowy.
Jeśli śpię na prawym boku, sytuacja często się pogarsza
To samo dzieje się, gdy zjem coś pikantnego lub coś, co nie jest odpowiednie.
To przewlekłe zapalenie błony śluzowej żołądka jest czasami lepiej tolerowane, a potem znowu bardzo złe.
Wywołuje u mnie złą falę, ponieważ mam nudności, zawroty głowy i obniżony nastrój, prawdopodobnie z powodu zapalenia.
Podobno nie mam niedotlenienia, a raczej problem ze stanami zapalnymi.
Najwyraźniej zapalenie ściany żołądka samo w sobie powoduje złe samopoczucie.
Wczorajsza noc znów była pełna niepokoju i rozpaczy, nie mogłam spać, bo też miałam mdłości.
Jeśli zapalenie błony śluzowej żołądka jest poważniejsze, również się martwię, co jeszcze bardziej komplikuje sytuację.
Frustruje mnie to, ponieważ wywołuje we mnie reakcję walki-ucieczki – pojawia się strach i niepokój, których inaczej by nie było
Zwykle zaczyna się, gdy objawy zapalenia żołądka się nasilają.
Nie mogę zmniejszyć dawki leku przeciwdepresyjnego, gdy zapalenie błony śluzowej żołądka jest nasilone.
To frustrujące i frustrujące.
Dziś mamy pełnię księżyca i z jakiegoś powodu zawsze jestem bardzo niespokojny i zaniepokojony
 

Can you tell if you feel a quick filling of your stomach after eating? When you have stomach pain. I noticed that my soreness is after visiting the toilet and lasts for several hours.  There is also a feeling of flowing in the stomach and gas. I don't know what these symptoms are, but they appeared after AD was discontinued. Now I don't know if increasing AD would help. 
 

[Estman]

16 hours ago, modelarz71 said:

Can you tell if you feel a quick filling of your stomach after eating? When you have stomach pain. I noticed that my soreness is after visiting the toilet and lasts for several hours.  There is also a feeling of flowing in the stomach and gas. I don't know what these symptoms are, but they appeared after AD was discontinued. Now I don't know if increasing AD would help. 
 

Yes, I've had same.
Before, there was a feeling of heaviness in the stomach for a long time after a meal and later a lot of gas
I have now been on a very low carb diet for a month and have improved
I also definitely have a yeast or Candida Albians overgrowth and that's why I no longer eat sweet things, grains and very little dairy (mostly Greek yogurt)
In the past, there was a lot of brain fog and also more anxiety, a change in diet will definitely help.
My pyloric valve is also not working well. Apparently, the nervous system is dysfunctional and the vagus nerve is not working properly.
It causes a lot of pain because gas comes into the stomach and makes you nauseous. It also seems that there is not enough stomach acid and bile because it cannot digest fat.
Hopefully it will improve over time.

 

[GGGG]

On 9/19/2011 at 6:20 PM, Altostrata said:

Gut health seems to be very much involved in mental health, and many people here have reported an improvement in withdrawal symptoms after taking greater care with their diets. One approach is SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets, which eliminates foods thought to trigger allergic reactions or digestion difficulties and allows beneficial bacteria to repopulate in the gut.

 

These diets also minimize sugar and starch intake, which is thought to cause a great deal of metabolic stress -- in some people, leading to diabetes.

 

I have had some success with taking probiotics. I've gotten a high recommendation for Enzymedica Digest Gold, a vegan probiotic capsule. A probiotic drink called GoodBelly seemed to help (Goodbelly actually contains a lot of sugar because the bacteria it contains need the sugar to keep alive).

 

I drink kefir often and eat yogurt every day, though I have not graduated to making my own. (Maybe some day soon.)

 

My gut is now in better shape since it ever was, even before antidepressants. For many years, I had an IBS-like condition. Eating anything in the garlic or onion family seemed to set it off. I liked Indian food but it often upset my stomach. Now I'm eating it all the time, and I can eat salsa with bits of raw onion in it (before I had to pick them out).

 

So something has gone right with my gut as my autonomic nervous system has recovered.

 

What's been your experience with probiotics?

At how many years off  antidepressants did you try food enzymes and probiotics ?  I started taking magnesium glycinate 100 mg at night and slept ok  and I'm going to take 100 mg today in the morning.  In one week I go up to 200 at night and 200 in the morning. I need to be leas tensed during the day and be able to sleep.  I've been 3.2 years off antidepressants. 

[savinggrace]

Just a comment on probiotics and histamine, in general.

 

I have bad histamine intolerance.  I have had to eliminate a lot of foods.  More than ten years ago, before I knew about histamine intolerance, I found myself in the ER after a bad reaction on day 4 to the GAPS diet...I got tachycardia and had trouble breathing.  Of course, after the doctors couldn't fine any reason, I had to consider if the GAPS diet the cause (I wasn't full-on GAPS, but doing 1/2 of the recommended bone broth and even homemade sauerkraut juice, sparingly.)

As soon as I stopped the diet, my heart and breathing went back to normal.  I had the same reaction to  (then-called) VSL probiotics.  At the time, they were considered one of the best and most potent.  I took less than a half capsule for a few days and had the same heart and breathing problems.  This time I did not go to the ER.  I knew what was happening.  Sure enough, stopping the probiotics stopped the symptoms.

 

I have cut out most all high-histamine food and take no pre or pro-biotics because of these reactions.  I am not sure my digestion will ever normalize again.  I do my best at eating a new food here and there but I have SIBO, too, so with IBS and gastroparesis, my diet is hard to vary.

 

Slow digestion is often caused by vagus nerve damage which is common w/ psych drugs.

 

I have recently read very good things about culturing milk and the good it does for your digestive system.  With a milk and histamine intolerance, I can't do it, but culturing one's milk is easy and apparently very good for re-populating the gut w/ good bacteria.

 

I constantly read about, and actually eat low FODMAP.  I actually notice a difference.  Low FODMAP is highly recommended for a variety of digestive ills.

 

Hope this helps someone.

Grace

 

 

[modelarz71]

QUOTE "Slow digestion is often caused by damage to the vagus nerve, which is common with psychotropic medications."
It's very saddening . Maybe it's just destabilization.

I would like to console myself somehow, what do you think?

 

[savinggrace]

There is a ton of information and videos about stimulating and strengthening the vagus nerve.  I am admittedly not very good at doing them regularly but it might be worth a shot looking at them.  They don't take long at all.  I think if you did them several times/day you may improve things.  That said, the vagus nerve is responsible for a lot of autonomic nervous system activity.  I suspect my vagus nerve damage is expressing itself in many other ways.

 

I don't know how to console yourself other than to keep plugging away at tapering, and accepting the damage, and working with it as best you can.  It limits my diet as many things are just too hard to digest.  They call my condition gastroparesis but really that is symptom, not a disease, and is an indicator of vagal nerve damage.

 

Accepting it, and working with it is my best way to deal with it.  I try small amounts of new foods as often as the pain allows.  My symptoms are pretty much identical to yours, posted on Thursday.

 

Best wishes,

Grace

[modelarz71]

Thank you. Very interesting your observation:
QUOTE "They call my condition gastroparesis, but it's actually a symptom, not a disease, and is an indicator of vagus nerve damage." 
I'm already afraid of AD, but I don't know, maybe a big restatement would reduce or eliminate this problem
I snack out of nervousness, and I'm more bloated, which makes me even more nervous. I walked on the treadmill for 20 min a while to relax in the evening

I have to stop snacking on fruit or I'll burst, now there's no pain, just bloating. 
 

[savinggrace]

I think trying not to eat between meals, and perhaps eating smaller meals more often, might help your pain.  I do best if I go 4 or more hours without eating between meals.

 

Have you ever considered a low FODMAP diet?  It is intimidating, at first, and I don't follow it completely, but I do try to eat the lower FODMAP veggies.  I am histamine intolerant so most fruits are out.  Fruit has a lot of sugar which could be feeding the bad bacteria and making your bloating/pain worse.  When I eat fruit, I eat very small portions, just 1/4 of a small apple, or a few grapes. (trying to get vitamin C)  If you are eating bananas I would stop that.  They are known to cause constipation and are so high in sugar.  I try to get nutrients from veggies more...lower FODMAP ones.  I eat just a little grain.  I am underweight but I can't eat more than I do without stirring up the pain and slowing motility.

 

I walk an hour/day which I think helps for many reasons, including digestion.  I think I have IBS, which is insidious because I can eat the exact same thing one day w/o symptoms and the next day have terrible bloating and pain from the same food...even when my stress level is the same.

 

I am sorry I can't understand your signature, so I can't see what dose of meds you are one.  My suspicion is that reinstating will make all of this worse though...you likely have irritable bowel syndrome which is also insidious.  Our gut lining is affected by these drugs.

 

I have been having severe digestive illness for 10 years now.  I haven't figured it out but I am sure it is all caused by my meds and I suspect irreversible...it just has to be managed.  Every day is different, gut-wise, for me, but I stay away from dairy, gluten, sugar, caffeine, citrus, spicy food...a lot of things.

 

I am happy to answer any other questions or listen to your thoughts.  I have been "studying" all this for 10 years.  I have Barrett's esophagus, IBS, SIBO and gastroparesis...and I manage it all with determination and by manipulating my diet.

 

I am managing some other pretty severe health problems so I am not actively tapering.  My signature reflects the only things I take.

 

Grace

[modelarz71]

I'm sorry you have to suffer so much. It's only been 5 months for me. I'm still counting on some herbs for digestion or supplements. I don't believe in doctors anymore (maybe only in an orthopedist), I'll probably try Chinese medicine with their needles. I've been taking 0.30 mg of escilatopram for several months as a restorative but it doesn't help. Except maybe I'm somehow asleep many thanks
 

[savinggrace]

Oh, so you have just .3 mg. excitalopram?  No way would I think about reinstating.  This digestive stuff is very hard to deal with, but you are close to the finish line.  Don't give up now.  The excitalopram is probably what caused the digestive stuff...and the withdrawal.

 

Mostly I don't go to doctors either.  My GI thinks I should be fine, even though I only weigh 88#.  I try to eat as much as I can but I can't because of pain.  The next step would be tube feeding.  Not doing that. 

 

Good luck,

Grace

[LanaCoFireBird]

Just wanted to revamp this topic too. I took 8 months off my taper and In that time I got a sibo diagnosis and now I’m in the stage of it where I’m taking probiotics. I’m taking a lot of the probiotics from microbiome labs and I’m trying to figure out a good diet for sibo. I know gut health was a big part of my neuroinflammation  why I struggled with some of the symptoms I did. I’m very curious to do more research and see how the probiotics and improved gut health play out with withdrawal and maybe it will give me an easier time. I’m very grateful for this thread and all rhe info here. 
 

im currently taking- zenbiome, megaguard, hu58 and Mega igG. They are all from microbiome labs. 
At one point pre sibo, I was taking  repairvite to help repair the intestinal lining and I liked that and had to pause it for a bit and am considering restarting. 

[ThisIsthestart]

Hi all, I've been wondering this for awhile and have searched the site for any mention of this but haven't seen it here so apologies if this has been asked before. 

I was curious if anyone has tried the medical probiotic, PS128? I know there are a few brands out there (Neuralli, Microvita, etc.), and they can be very expensive. The probiotic strain in them, L. plantarum PS128, is supposed to specifically reduce stress and support your gut/brain health. 

I'm curious if anyone knows if this can be activating the way that other natural herbs can be on those in withdrawal? Figured I'd ask!