Santino

Santino: How do i keep on the sane side?

220 posts in this topic

HI Friends

 

I am trying to stabilise in here. I am at work today and the day is so far OK. Two days ago i changed from Soltab to Tablet Remeron and i could not sleep. Yesterdat i again took tablet 15 MG Remeron and banana as well as Linden flower tea and i slept OK. I have a bit of anxiety and breathing problems today but managable. Breathing shouuld be more related to Smoking as yesterday i had a no sleep day and i called on work sick.

 

I wanted to know does it means that the fact i was not able to sleep when i changed from Soltab to Tablet is related to the change or is more Bromazepam WD??? Does that mean that i am sensitive to the Remeron and i will have to follow the 10% deduction rule even if i am a short time user???

 

All the best

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Santino. It's really hard to say exactly what caused your sleeplessness. As it's such a common symptom it's probably withdrawal. It's always best to stick to the 10 % taper method as it's the safest and most effective in terms of lessening your symptoms and reducing harm. Even though it has been a relatively short period of time it's enough that the brain has adapted to the drug and therefore needs slow tapering. 

Ali

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HI AliG

 

Thanks a lot for your answer.

 

What is the best course of action regarding time of tapering... can i start trying now or i should wait two three weeks in case i will have any unpleasant effect from Benzo stoppage.

 

And one more thin is as i have Remeron 30 MG tablets which i cut in half how i can go for tappering??? There is no liquid form of Remeron around here buddy, but i can get 15 MG tablets and at least up to 7.5 MG or 3.8 i should not have much problem but how about decrements of less then that amount???

 

All the best

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Santino, it's best to hold exactly where you are for 3 more weeks to let your body adjust to recent major change of no bromazepam. Enjoy having that time not to think about cutting and tapering, etc.

 

After you've given yourself some time to relax, these threads have suggestions for your remeron taper:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

Making a liquid from a tablet or capsules

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Scallywag

 

Thanks for your answer sis.

 

I started on Monday night to take Remeron 15 MG tablet because i am not able to find the SolTab i was taking before and i am facing some problems.

 

The hard tablet had an expiry date of October 2016. I took 15 MG on Monday and could not sleep more than 1-2 hours. I called sick at work and took my time. On Tuesday i took 15 MG, had a banana and drunk some Linden flower tea and i slept quite well and yesterday was a let's say OK Day. Yesterday evening I only took the 15 MG, had the banana and went to sleep. I woke up around 1 or 2 o clock with some interrupted sleep. Around 2.30 - 3.00 Am i did again Linden flower tea and then lay down around 3.30 and manage to have like 1-2 other hours of interrupted sleep. During morning time my breathing was a bit hard and i head kinda flu symptoms during all the night which have cleared by now as i have come to office. I woke up tired and came to work but surprisingly i feel more good today. I do not have that Zombie feeling and the lethargy. Definitely Remeron on that tablet might have lost power already but i am not sure on how much.

 

I think i need to stabilize with this dose for some more time and try tapering from here... Anyway i need to know what can i use as an aid for sleep...??? Linden tea does the work but if taken continuously it might damage heart. I do not want to take any benzo as i am 7 days already Off them. I was thinking maybe Benadryl on top of my Remeron dose or try some Magnesium with Potasium, I can of course try a strong chamomile tea or Valerian but as they both target Gaba receptors might affect healing from short term Benzo usage. I also might try Gaba suplement but i do not know how it can affect the CNS already under pressure from Remeron.

 

Tell me guys. I am waiting.... All the best

 

Let me know what do you think friends...

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Hey Santino, remember to Keep it slow. Keep it simple. Keep it stable.

 

Your body is still dealing with the effects of cutting bromazepam to 0. I know that what you're feeling right now is uncomfortable. Trying to fix it by adding amino acids, antihistamines, and other things you've asked about will complicate the situation and may make it worse.

 

Two supplements that people have found helpful during withdrawal Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker and Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil). Start them one at a time at a low dose (less than what's suggested on the container) and increase slowly to the recommended dose. Write your symptoms down on paper. If you notice symptoms, go back to the level where you had none.

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Hi friends...

 

I already had a baby girl last week on Wednesday. I brought them back from the hospital on friday and both my wife and baby are OK. It is a source of distraction for me but also my situation is not really good currently. 

 

I keep obsessing about remeron and how will i escape from it. I will be three weeks off from Bromazepam and some time i attribute this bad way of thinking during some days to the fact that in three weeks i might still be in some kind of weak withdrawal from the benzo but other then that i have had no panic attacks or high levels of anxiety. There are days when i am in the clear but i continue to be sad on how i made my self enter into this problem.

 

Now regarding Remeron i am continuing with 15mg per night since 9th of May. I do not know whether i will have the guts to taper that one as on some days i seem really to blow the things out of proportion and get scared. I was contacting a clinic in a neighbour country and they are claiming as i have been a short time user they can get me off with minimal discomfort within a two weeks treatment period. 

 

Please let me know, based on my short history of meds if i go that way do i have a chance to recover within a short period...??? I can discuss at work and take some days off but i can not handle the stress of continuing like this. This whole thing is making me so weak and i have never been like this during all my life. Please give me your opinions whether considering my history is better to go cold turkey or taper on higher percentages for shorter time...?????

 

All the best

 

Santino

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Santino,

 

Congratulations on the birth of your daughter! I'm glad that she and your wife are doing well.

 

You are correct that it's probably best to hold steady at 15mg Remeron until your bromazepam w/d symptoms stabilize. You need to let your body adjust to having 0mg bromazepam.

 

My only comment about what the clinic promised you is that going fast of any psych drug is risky.  The risk is that you pay them money for their plan and then may have to deal with severe w/d symptoms. If you have time, search the introductions forum for people who are tapering Remeron (mirtazapine).  You might get some insight from their posts about how tapering is going for them.

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HI All

 

Today it is again a good day. It seems i am still experiencing waves from my short term benzo usage at three weeks. Anyway the anxiety in bad days is not that bad. The only thing that worries me is the depression on those days. It gets really tough especially at work and i seem to somehow catastrophize regarding my situation and the usage of Remeron.

 

I have an appointment today with an old Pdoc to explain my version of things as the one i am currently having seems not to believe too much in the withdrawals but more on me being depressed and stuff like that. If she would tell me to tapper the xanax after my 3 weeks usage i think all of this would have finished earlier and not taking two months as currently. She is saying that i might have to be on Remeron for life but seems to be careful about tapering anyway. She said that if you feel good after 6 months or one year we can go on with lowering doses every three months. I do not really agree with that approach even it might sound a good one. I don't want to prolong my usage of Remeron up to 6 months at the same dose and face harder consequences further down the road. If i will be stable some days i think i want to start reducing Remeron.

 

I know the 10% rule every 3-4 weeks but that might mean for me a long time ahead and i do not know what kind of WD i might have which can risk my job and quality of life. Anyway it seems i have to be careful and read less horrorr stories. I really regret putting myself into this.

 

I have checked the stories in the introductions page and the pace seems really slow. I hate putting myself in this condition and really worried about the future some time. Anyway need to get tough and going...

 

Opinions are all welcomed

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Santino, the 10% taper with a 4 week hold is recommend as harm-reduction. The intention of the 10% taper is to minimize withdrawal symptoms.

 

If you wait until your bromazepam withdrawal symptoms settle down, you'll be in better shape to start a slow, gentle taper.  You're risking a decrease from the functionality you currently have by starting a Remeron taper so soon after the abrupt stop of bromazepam.

 

Your concern about being fully functional in your life -- at work and with your family -- is important. The best way to preserve that is to wait until you improve and then to taper Remeron slowly. You can take it even slower than 10% every month to minimize the risk of withdrawal symptoms, 10% is a suggested maximum reduction and 3-4 weeks is a suggested minimum hold.

 

My doctor recommended that I skip days of taking the pill to go off Cymbalta. That was destabilizing for me. I started to have sleep problems that were affecting my ability to live in a world where people are awake and working during the day. I was awake and alert in the evenings and overnight. I decided to take on a consistent daily dose until my sleep problems were mostly gone.  Then I started a 10% taper of Cymbalta after I had stabilized. I have had very few symptoms, and none that have affected my ability to function in life. If I do have symptoms I will increase the dose a little bit and slow down my taper.

 

My philosophy about this: It takes about 6 months to get to 50% less of current dose using the 10% per month method. If my symptoms tell me that I have to make smaller reductions, 5% or less, I will.  Six months are going to pass anyway.  I'd much rather have an easy time for that 6 months than risk feeling bad by going faster.

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Dear Friends

 

ScallyWag do not know how to thank you for your answers. You are such an inspiring thought.

 

I am not currently in a good position.

 

I was never depressed before but right now this situation is making me feel so.

 

I am continuing Remeron on 15 Mg per night though as i am on the fourth week since stopping my short time benzo use from March to June 2016.

 

I feel depressed usually early in the morning as my sleep comes off around 4.30 AM (sometimes 5-6) and i stay in bad until 6.50 when i wake up to go to work. During this period some days i am just calm but some days i really feel bad and have in my mind all sort of things.

 

I have even thought of the word s... as it really looks to me as an hopeless situation. I do not see currently a way out of this situation. Can not convince myselfe of a slow taper as i have been using Remeron for only two months but at the same time i am scared to try and see how do i do with lower doses... :-( It really seems like my life has gone upside down and i am not able to wake up.

 

Anyway after coming to work today the things have changed and i am more calm, no anxiety currently but still not decided on the proper action. It looks to me that by following 10% rule i will miss my daughter growing up and my 12 years old son already senses that there is something wrong with me but up to now he only makes small questions and not much. I can not talk to my wife openly about the situation as she just gave birth and my bragging about my situation make her really sad. 

 

To add more to the picture i really have a MF manager who is pissing me off almost daily. She is the kind of person who wants to intervene in every process of the company to show that she is working and causing problems to us. Anyway my performance during these last 2 months has not been really good due to my situation but she does not care at all.

 

I am really in the middle of a crossroad. Normally i am calm at nights and than at those moments i say to myself that OK this will pass and i can start tappering Remeron but those damn mornings like today make me really feel bad and very much depressive.

 

Please give me your opinions...

 

Are this anxiety mornings result of benzo WD??? I am into fourth week of no benzo right now so i should be out of the acute of my benzo short term usage... (3 months at most).

 

Can it be that these depression comes naturally from the prolonged situation of feeling bad for these months or Remeron is causing it???? I have heard that depression and s... thoughts can be a side effect of Remeron but i do not know the reason this is happening to me... even with my anxiety provoked by non careful Xanax usage.

 

Please give me an opinion can cold turkey in a rehab be an option after 2 months usage???? Prolonging this makes me feel really hopless and some more i can not stop myself from reading messages all over the web about Mirtz Withdrawal and that plays its role as well.

 

 

All the best

 

SANTINO

Edited by scallywag
a few more paragraph breaks

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What you're experiencing is withdrawal from stopping the benzo. Sometimes the symptoms of withdrawal continue past the "acute" period. This is just your CNS (central nervous system) continuing to adjust.

 

Taking time now to let your body settle to the benzo change is a good idea. You don't have to taper the Remeron in the future -- neither the near future nor the long term.

 

Moderators here have seen that people who have cold-turkey stopped a medication often have very bad withdrawal symptoms and for a longer time than those who reduced the dose more slowly. Some have stopped a drug cold-turkey themselves and wish that they knew then what they know now.

 

Cold-turkey discontinuation of a psych drug like Remeron or a benzo is almost never a better option than tapering, even if you're at a rehab facility.  The rehab facility is probably more familiar with alcohol, prescription narcotics, and street drugs.

 

Antidepressant withdrawal symptoms continue after 2 months -- when you would be back at home and work -- and new ones can arise after 2 months.

 

What are your current symptoms? What time of day does each symptom start and end?

 

I'm going to ask the more experienced moderators for their opinions. One of us will get back to you. :)

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What you're experiencing is withdrawal from stopping the benzo. Sometimes the symptoms of withdrawal continue past the "acute" period. This is just your CNS (central nervous system) continuing to adjust.

 

Taking time now to let your body settle to the benzo change is a good idea. You don't have to taper the Remeron in the future -- neither the near future nor the long term.

 

 

 

HI Scallywag

 

Thanks a lot for your answer.

 

Normally these last two days i have been normal during the day. I am at work and have mild worries but that's it. Normally around 6 Pm i have a 5.5 km walk and after that i take a shower eat dinner and then i am out to a coffee downstairs watching football or socializing with neighbors and so on. I am not sure whether this still can be benzo as i used benzo for only 2.5 months and now i am 4 weeks free. I think the problem with me is that i am obsessed with Mirtazapine withdrawal recently and even when i am calm i enter into google and make searches regarding it. I most probably should have been spotted by Google about this trend and put on a suspicious persons list... :-) 

 

Some mornings i wake early due to a bad dream or worry and i find myself really anxious. My thoughts go really berserk and i feel depressed and s.... (mind the word). Today in the morning i was feeling just that. Sometimes anxiety is sooo high a go up and smoke a cigarette at 5 AM but that only gives some relief for matter of minutes and thats it. I take also Magnesium and potaspium supplement in the evening and morning i take Niacin, Fish Oil Omega 3, Vit D. I drink a Chamomile tea after i arrive to work and smoke two cigarettes 0.1 monoxide and tar in the morning. Today for example the only problem was the morning and the day seem to go by without problems. I am even more concentrated at work and so on.

 

I have anhedonia though which started with Remeron. Before while i was taking benzo and amitryptiline i had this anxiety but not really anhedonic.. with Remeron people are saying i am closing on myself and two doctors i talked with suggested to increase to 30 mg but i refused. I feel like my brain is full at times and i can not think or will not be able to maintain my job but so fare i am managing to hold on. If i loose my job due to performance it will be really bad as i started the meds just for this reason so i would not loose days at work.

 

Scallywag

 

why do you say i do not have to taper Remeron in the really future or long term...????!! Actually with the situation i am finding myself into i am really not accepting the fact of staying into this meds. I had just anxiety and sleep problems for one week and the doctor pushed me into this nightmare. I have since 20th of March with only here and there calm days but majority have been hell on earth. If i would have been brave and close myself up at home for one week and clear xanax withdrawals this would have all been behind. I was never depressed before but right now these type of thoughts really worry me. I need to be there for my kids. I do not want to give up just like that for stupid errors of such irresponsible doctors.

 

Anyway today seems to be good. Life goes on. One day at a time.... :-)

 

All the best

 

Santino

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Santino, I'm glad to read that the last few days have gone well for you.

 

I posted that you don't have to stop taking Remeron because you wrote that you worry about it tapering it. Staying on it, tapering off it, stopping it suddenly -- if, when and how you stop is your choice. :D

 

When you wonder about why you have the symptoms, please look at your signature. In the last 3.5 months you have made many changes to the drugs you take and the doses. Your CNS is destabilized and will take as much time as it needs to settle down.

 

Xanax

2015 -  2016 Xanax only rescue doses of 0.125 mg 1-2 times per month
March 2016 0.125Mg * 2 Xanax for 10 days.

20 March 2016 0.25 Mg * 2 Xanax for one week.

 

1 April 2016 Tranxene 5 mg (a benzo) and Prozac but bad reaction for 5 days.

 

4 April 2016 25 Mg Amitryptiline

+ 6 MG bromazepam at night

Started tapering Bromazepam 6 days later reached up to 3 MG in 10 days and had withdrawal.

~April 15 Reinstated bromazepam to 6 MG by pDoc

10 May started tapering bromazepam from 6 mg again + started Remeron

9 June completed bromazepam taper

 

10 May stopped amitriptyline and started Remeron 10 mg

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Scally

 

Thanks for your messages. It seems I will have a calm evening but do not know how the morning will turn out. I can not plan things in advance for more than two months already. I dread having a morning like today with such level of depression and s.. Thoughts. I do not know right now whether this is still withdrawal from benzo or side effects of Remeron. There are cases that when this drug has been administered to normal people it will result in the opposite effect causing depression and such thoughts. What do you think...???

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When you wonder about what is causing your symptoms, please look at your signature. In the last 3.5 months you have made many changes to the drugs you take and the doses. Your CNS is destabilized and will take as much time as it needs to settle down.

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And to imagine that it was not me who ordered those changes....!!! :-(((

 

Do I still have hope...???

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Hello Santino,

 

I actually think you are doing well and being very, very far from no hope. Your exposure to drugs has been much shorter than most of us. What scally is trying to say is that it is to be expected that you have symptoms. A month is not a long time when it comes to healing the brain. And as you are yourself aware worrying makes things a lot worse and that you do plenty. Anyone worrying so much would have increased anxiety drugs or no drugs.

 

When I read your posts I see that you are actually improving. It's just that this improving happens in the typical pattern of windows and waves and those waves scare you.

 

Also, as you say, you worry way too much about Remereon. I really think there is no need. When your symptoms from changing and stopping drugs settle down you will tackle Remeron. Chances are you will be able to go faster than 10 % but the key thing to bear in mind is that you will go as slow (or fast) as your brain allows for you to have a decent quality of life while tapering. That's the idea of a slow taper and harm reduction approach: how long it will take is not so important. You will be able to enjoy your life while this is happening.

 

I don't think anyone can tell with any certainty whether your current symptoms are the consequence of benzo withdrawal or remeron side effects. Benzos are more likely cause. Try to focus on things which have improved and live from one positive moment to the next. When a bad moment come tell yoursrlf you are healing and it will pass. Focus more on your baby and try to forget about Remeron. At the moment dealing with negative thinking and catastrophasing is of much bigger importance than the drugs.

 

Instead of checking Remeron try to look for non-drug ways of dealing with anxiety and negative thinking. Maybe this is a good time for you to explore meditation, mindfulness or some other anxiety reducing technique or look into cognitive behaviour therapy. I downloaded a free app on my phone calm.org and whenever I start getting overwhelmed I do a 3 min relaxation. It helps a lot.

 

Try not to worry and I'm really convinced you will bounce back quickly and successfully deal with remeron. But try to focus on your life more and don't let the drugs have too much power over you. Show them their place. Ignore them and deal with other areas of your life.

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HI Bubble

 

Thanks a lot for your inspiring message.

 

Today in the morning i woke up from a bad dream( should be result of Remeron) and i needed some time in order to calm my self that it was just a dream. My brain was making irrational games with me. Anyway i came to work as normally but i still feel very tired and unable to stand toomuch stress. I am calm otherwise but my memory and brain seems very tired. All this period of bad feeling and overthinking has taken its toll.

 

What should i do in order to come out of this situation?? If i call the doctor for he will for sure tell me to increase the Remeron dose and i do not want want that. Is morning exercise good in this case??? I have to wake up at 5.30 am in order to make a walk and be ready to go to work at 7.20 am. I do not feel good with this situation. It is taking tooo much time and i am trying to be optimistic but many a times a find my self very tired and exhausted. I do not know whether the Remeron is the right choice for me. I hope in the future it will be just a mistake that i will regret.

 

All the best

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Santino.   As has already been mentioned , you have experienced a lot of changes in drugs and doses, and that can create instability and will perhaps take a little while to settle. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is nothing. Try to accept the situation if possible , and work around it the best you can for this period of time.

 

Some light morning exercise could possibly be a good thing if you feel you can handle it right now. In the early stages of W/D , intense exercise can be too stimulating for some and an exercise intolerance can develop. I had this but pushed too hard , and then suffered for it and I'm only just starting to recover again now. It put me out of action, for quite a while.  I would advise going very slowly, as with most things in withdrawal, until you have a clear idea of what you can handle because it can definitely push you into a wave if you're sensitive as most of us are.

 

If you can listen to your body and give it what it needs at the time , I think it will help you through this.  If you are too tired and exhausted to exercise  - then don't. You can start up again , later. It's your body telling you to slow down and rest.

 

I found what helped me was just to accept that there was going to be a high level of uncomfortable symptoms for quite a while , but not to focus on them . Instead , I focused on the healing aspect of a freedom from drugs in the future , so that while there was a certain level of W/D symptoms, I was looking even further ahead to the future which helped to ease the immediate pain in the moment. I kept holding on to that thought and I still do.

 

Some of these links might be helpful :

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery/

 

Guided Meditations, Calming Videos, Sleep Hypnosis

 

Ali

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Hey Santino - 

 

There are a lot of things that happen in withdrawal.

 

Ali and Bubble just made great posts - about living with it.  I will explain a little more about the freaky emotions that happen while in withdrawal - your obsession with Remeron, with fast tapering, with "will it always be like this?" - all of these are Neuro-emotion

 

Neuro-emotion takes real emotions - fear of survival, protection of your family, financial worries, etc., and withdrawal magnifies these emotions like an electron microscope so that they are huge and terrifying and fill the room and you wonder why other people are not so afraid of them, can't they see how BIG and SCARY they are?

 

When really, the emotions are just normal, human emotions, but withdrawal makes them SEEM worse.  It's perspective.

 

There are a number of favorite mantras I have.

 

"This is only withdrawal"  "this is only a symptom." "This is only temporary."

 

And when it gets really really bad, "Let go, let go, let go, let go."

 

There are other more positive ones, like, "I'm breathing."  "I'm alive"  "I love my family"  "It gets better"  

 

Also - recovery happens in Waves and Windows - this means that the symptoms can come and go.  You will get better, then fall down again.  The symptoms might change - and instead of fixating on Remeron, you might find that you are averse to light or wheat or dairy or loud noises or alcohol.  Symptoms come and go, and they change.  Expect the unexpected for at least a year after your last drug change. 

 

But here's the beauty of it - those mantras:  It's just a symptom, it's only a wave, it's only withdrawal, it's only temporary.  All of them still help.

 

And I promise you - you've been very brave and doing very well so far - in the face of these intense neuro-emotions - to hold your Remeron at 15 mg for the WHOLE TIME! Well done!  Most people panic and start bouncing doses, but you have held the course like a champion.

 

Now I will tell you a secret, one which may help you just a little with your anxiety.  At 15 mg, Remeron is not really even an antidepressant.  It is more of an antihistamine.  Maybe a tiny antidepressant, but mostly antihistamine at this dose.  So relax.  Think of it as an allergy pill, and breathe.

 

It gets better.  I has already gotten better, and you have been staying firm like a warrior.  I will get better again.  You can do this.

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HI Guys

 

Thanks a lot for your lovely supporting messages.

 

Bubble and JanCarol, i had tear in my eyes even though i am supposed to be zombified by my 15 MG of Remeron.

 

I had an somehow difficult week the last one and it was a great relief to get your messages and build up from there. I went to visit my hometown during the weekend and somehow had an OK weekend. The drawback was on Friday night as i met my cousins and as they did not see me for 3 months they already knew there was something wrong with me. I do not know but even in the calm days i still have bad thoughts which do not let me to come out of my situation. I do not know whether those thoughts ar real depression or just bio-feelings. Anyway later there are moments when i feel better almost free from symptoms but then still there is the other day which slams me hard.

 

I am still checking some options for rehabs as in Thailand there are someones which claim with my short time they can offer me a 2-3 months program in order to be free from Remeron supported with CBT, accupuncture, training and so on but i am not sure what to do. Going there would me a total disruption of my normal life, maybe loss of current job and i am not sure whether i am one of those people who gets off easily from the AD-s or vice versa. 

 

Anyway i have gone a bit lower from my 15MG Remeron dose... currently on around 13 since 4th of this month and so far it seems doable with only some shortage of sleep for some days but currently it seems to correct itself. Anyway i will continue with this dose for maybe 2-3 more weeks to see whether i will have symptoms later or my brain can repair itself faster. Than if i decide to taper and discard the Thailand thing i will start with 10% rule but the only way i can go about that is to mix my hard tablets in water and make it a liquid form of Remeron. I have no other way of doing it as in my country we can only get 30Mg tablets not soluble in water. I have heard that there are people who have done good also with this method.

 

The only drawback in my situation is that i get really slammed with bad thoughts time after time, i continue to read horror stories about remeron and overtire my brain some more. This does not let me to continue working properly and handle the normal stress while i have Remeron ta tackle as well. I am capable of driving currently and can come to work by myself but there are days when i just want to stay at the bad and do nothing .... but i force myselfe to stand and take on life as usual.

 

I m getting tired though and maybe this week i will see my doc again but i am sure he will push for me to go to 30Mg and i do not want that. My wife has been extremely supportive she says if you believe that Thailand will be good just go for it. We will survive even if you can not handle work but i do not want to let her, my kids and my parents down on this one.

 

Any support or guide on coping mechanisms will be much appreciated guys.

 

Let me know.

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Hello Santino,

 

it seems you are doing well, even with cutting Remeron. Can you please update your signature with the date of your cut?

 

There are a lot of ideas on coping with symptoms with non-drug techniques: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/page-1

 

As I've already said, your exposure to Remeron and the psychotropic drug has been relatively short so you shouldn't have problems coming down but the best thing you can do is to listen to your body (waiting for ideally 30 days after the cut is the best way to do it but maybe you can get away with 3 weeks). I would start with 30 day hold after a cut and then if the symptoms are bearable try 3 weeks and so on.

 

Please study the link on how to taper Remeron here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

Most of us use self-prepared liquid for tapering.

 

Finally, I don't see any point whatsoever in rehab centers for ADs, especially in your situation. Stopping most ADs is actually quite easy. When I didn't know anything about these drugs and when I operated under my doctor's instruction that they are non-addictive and I can just stop taking them I did just that. And I was ok for a week or, even a few months. With some I would get physical symptoms immediately but the worst part was being hit by excruciating symptoms two or three months later (when you are far from any rehab center). And no amount of CBT or acupuncture can do much about that injury then. In 2 months of taking the drug your brain underwent soem changes which now have to be reversed. This is not about eliminating an addictive substance out of your body and suffering a short although painful abstinence crisis. I will repeat once again: your exposure has been much, much less than most of us. It's very likely that you will be able to come off faster than most of us. But it's best to listen to your body.

 

Some form of talk therapy and/or learning a relaxation technique would help you with excessive worrying and with whatever caused you to start taking the drugs in the first place. Withdrawal or no withdrawal, you are right: we all need to develop coping skills for our anxieties and low moods. 

 

You are taking a relatively low dose, if you go with 10 % rule every month (and possibly faster) you will be taking less and less so I really see no need for worry :)

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Hi Bubble

 

Surprisingly after like 4 days with only 4 hours sleep tonight i striked a 8-9 hours and i am feeling really good. I am sticking to around 12.5 MG since 4th of July and am waiting to see what will happen after 2 weeks. Today i feel really good as i am at work and the mantras by JanCarol seems to do their thing. Deep down me i still have some thoughts but that's it today they are not interfering with my life and i am feeling positive. Lowering the drug levels are really showing that i was not depressed before it and Remeron was making me more depressed. Anyway i can not be sure about it because Rumination and catastrophizing from my side play a role too. I will try to break this pattern now. Will not let my self down and overtire my brain with the stupid fear of WD and a long hellish time of tapering. It does not seem hellish after all... :-)

 

Anyway i have no electronic scale and am doing my tapering with a visual precision which sometimes might not be accurate. Anyway if everything goes OK after 3-4 weeks at this level i will start the liquid method. I will mix 30 mg tablet with 30 ml water and then continue from there. It sounds reasonable as a method. Just need to make sure mixing the mixture quite well before use.

 

Bubble, AliG, Scallywag, JanCarol thanks a lot. I was really in a deep hole previous week and really depressed. I will try not to sleep again even though that is not guaranteed.. :-) Thanks a lot for your messages and you may God Bless you for all the assistance that you offer in this site.

 

As far as the Thai Rehab i was mentioning is concerned it might be a good idea but it is tooo expensive for me and currently I see this doable with tapering but just need to bear in mind the light at the end of the tunnel, accept the place you re in and stick to the plan without going fast.

 

If i manage my sleep i think i can manage my moods... I was never depressed before and i just used some xanax to be able to sleep properly and pass some simple occasional OCD thoughts. So far these have been the most difficult months of my life and i really want to be able to concentrate and come out of this situation. To go to the doctor for anxiety and to induce depression just because of the "meds" THIS IS TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS.

 

Hey JanCarol.... your mantras seem to work quite well these last two days... " This too shall pas." :-) 

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Dear Friends

 

I was doing good with my taper but got a setback today.

 

My f...ing manager caught up with me today again regarding some work processes and i could feel i was not feeling very OK. Anyway she is the type of person that wants to fight and quarrel with everyone but in the state i am being in it is difficult for me to fight back. I have been suffering with wrong medications and rumination about meds for 3 months already and this is too much.... :-(

 

If i lose my job i will let everybody down. 

 

After the quarrel i kept my composure and am not feeling very negative but still it should not have happened today. It makes me feel so weak and hopeless. I don't know but maybe she will take this issue up to the HR as she is mentioning that for some time and i do not know what to do... should i explain to her the situation or just let the things unfold as bad as they may go.

 

Very, Very difficult times ahead for me. Very confused and sad right now. As i am lowering Remeron i feel more positive psychologically but i do not know unless i reach 2-3 weeks whether i have passed withdrawals or i am getting better due to the lowering of the drug into my bloodstream.

 

I am really confused now..... Very confused.... to have a normal life up to three months ago and to have everything go down the drain like this...???!!!!

 

Help me with opinions... plsssssss....

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Hi Santino,

 

Wow, that was a tough situation with your boss - sorry you had to get through that. 

 

Are you charting your symptoms daily?  This can help discern whether things are improving or not, even if it's only slightly.  It can give you indications even before you get to the 2-3 week mark.  I give each day a rating out of 10, then put it on a graph so I can see a line going up or down or leveling out.  I find it really helpful to see that picture. 

 

I'd tend to hold off taking to your boss if possible, but if you really have to perhaps you can say you are having personal problems that you believe should be resolved in 2-3 weeks.  At least that will give you that extra time to see where things are at.  You can always explain everything at that later point if you need to. 

 

There's a book you could read, called Anatomy of an Epidemic which might help explain why your life has ended up in this place.  And it's not your fault - it starts with the drug companies.

 

Karen

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KarenB

 

Thanks a lot for your message. Yesterday evening I was damn tired due to this stressfull moment at work, but luckily enough my sleep was quite good last night and today i feel quite OK. I think i have started to have better days nowadays that i have started my taper. I am currently at 12 - 12,5 Mg not sure about the dose as i am simply cutting the tablet by eye.

 

Anyway i do not want to make something stupid and as my eye can not be accurate all the time can i mix the tablets with water and use a oral syringe...?? I do not have Soltab or Liquid here and i have access to only 30Mg coated tablets.

 

I am planing to mix 30 mg of a tablet into 30 ml of liquid and after mixing it good take it from there as 1ml = 1mg. I want to know could it be any problem with this method??? What should i expect the day i will start taking the liquid solution?? The last time i shifted from Soltab to tablet I had two slepless nights with one Ok night in between i want to be sure planning ahead on the days that i will make the drops.

 

I have been taking Remeron for only 2 months at 15 MG and currently at 12 MG i really feeling a lot more better than 15. I have never been depressed so it seems lowering Remeron now before it is too late makes sense. 

 

Let me know friends.....

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Sometimes people do find it a little bumpy when shifting to liquid doses, so just make sure you don't change doses at the same time. 

 

There is detailed info on how to make liquid doses here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

You are right that lowering your dose sooner rather than later is a good idea.  Just don't go faster than your symptoms are indicating is right for you. 

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Dear Friends

 

I am continuing to be on 12.5 MG liquid Remeron since 4th of July. Last weekend i started to take that quantity  by mixing hard tablets with  water and Saturday was very good but yesterday i was anxious in the morning up to afternoon. I came down from 15 MG used for almost 2 months and made me feel worse during all the time. Previous week was somehow OK with 1-2 bad days in between. Today seems to be good as well anyway i just feel a bit edgy. My brain is tired and even though i am calm at work i tend to get tired too soon. I do not like this situation as somehow it is risking my work but i do not want to go up on Remeron and will try to survive. On the bad days i really feel bad and as in a hopless situation. My confidence has gone down as well and i feel confused whether i will be able to do this or not.

 

When do you think will be appropriate to make my next cut??? I think going from 12.5 to 11 Mg should be OK after some days. 

 

On the other side i am taking:

 

Magnesium at night, Fish Oil Omega 3, Nyacin, Vitamin D.

 

All the best

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You cut by 16.7% (15 mg - 12.5 mg = 2.5 mg), which may have been easier to do with a tablet than the recommended 10% maximum and switched to liquid.

 

It would probably be best to stay at 12.5  mg for a full 8 weeks, so until August 27 or 28.

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You cut by 16.7% (15 mg - 12.5 mg = 2.5 mg), which may have been easier to do with a tablet than the recommended 10% maximum and switched to liquid.

 

It would probably be best to stay at 12.5 mg for a full 8 weeks, so until August 27 or 28.

Scallywag

 

Most probably there is a misunderstanding between us friend. I cut on 4th of July and the whole week after my cut have been really better than before the cut. I was really feeling depressed on 15 mg and I immediately felt better after the cut. Ofcourse I have had 1-2 bad days in between but overall positive vibes on this cut. I started with water titrating due to not being sure about the amount I was cutting on hard tablets this Saturday and I think it went well somehow. So now I hope to strike some good days in a row and then move down again. 27-28 of August might be very late...:-(((

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When you make the next dose reduction is your decision, Santino. Even if you're feeling better at a lower dose, you made 2 changes in early July. You've had to work to get stabilized. Things are going well for you.

 

My thinking: Why risk stability?

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Dear All

 

It is my 21-st day from my first drop from 15Mg to 12.8Mg Remeron. In the first days i was feeling quite OK compared to the previous months and especially during my time on 15Mg of Remeron. My time on the 15Mg Remeron was terrible and for the first time in my life i became suicidal. I Think i should have stopped Remeron in the first month but lowering Bromazepam at that time really scared the **** out of me so i continued. I think it was a worse decision because not only now i am stuck with the low taper of Remeron and i am not sure whether i will be able to make it or not but also due to my Obsessive nature with medication Remeron did the opposite pushed me more into depression (maybe it was a side effect who the hell knows...???!!!).

 

Today is the end of the third week and the last week i had two days of poor sleep. I am coming to work every day but last week i had an argument with my boss about my performance which some how has changed compared to the time prior to all this episode, and now even though i feel somehow OK during some days i am really dreading the fact of facing her. Never happened before... I do not know whether this can be related to WD or not. Today again i did not have a good sleep but maybe because i indulged myself into some carb reach food yesterday i am suffering the consequences. A part from this last week i had some bought of anxiety and diarrhea which i attribute to WD but i was able to drive to my home town for like 200 km and really enjoyed that... both going and coming back. How much i regret that my current job is being at the office while being out and driving would be really nice. I have been slight depressive and i can not find a way to break my rumination circle of thoughts regarding this taper. It seems some times i really get anxious and start reading endlessly stories about mirtazapine withdrawal which cause more bad time then good. I REALLY NEED SOME HELP ON THAT.... I CAN NOT DISTRACT ENOUGH... :-(((

 

Anyway let's hope this coming week to be good. It would give me more hope to continue with the taper. I do not want to prolong it but at the same time i want to be functional. If this thing with my boss would have not happened and i would not have this pressure at work i believe I would feel better and more positive toward my taper.

 

There are really moments when i think about CT. Even in this forum most of the success stories are from people who C/T than those who taper. I am confused..... NEED HELP....

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Santino, if you read the success stories more closely, those who stopped CT also write about difficult *years* of symptoms.

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Scally do not get mad at me... :-(

 

I have read most of the success story but why i still see CT as a possible way of going off is that i have been on 15 MG for 6 weeks and at 12.8 for another 3. I never went beyond that. Short time and low dosage there are a lot of people saying it can be done... :-(

 

Still scared and needing help.... 

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Santino, Your medications are always your choice. I agree with you that there is conflicting information -- advice from doctors, other people who have take psych drugs, other internet forums. It is possible to CT and recover but there is a significant risk of a very long period of intense symptoms.

 

You could look at slowly tapering as a tool to expand your capacity to be patient. I'm not saying that it is that, or that you need that, simply that it's one possible way to look at the situation. :)

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