TNTD: Wellbutrin: cold turkey due to debilitating side effect

[JanCarol]

Hey TNDT, are you tired of me yet?  

 

You wrote:

 

I take a supplement called Respir-all for allergies instead of the fexofenidine. I have been taking it for years but thought that the licorice in it might be causing problems so I tried the fexofenidine for a few days but went back to the respir-all because I felt better overall with it

 

This looks like a good supplement, except for the licorice, which can cause anxiety-like palpitations.  The problem with compounds is - you never know which ingredient you are reacting to.  In withdrawal, it is better to have single supplements that you can start or take away, according to your symptoms - instead of a kitchen sink remedy.  Before psych drugs, this was probably an excellent antihistamine substitute - I might even consider it for my own antihistamine addiction.  I have yet to find something which has enabled me to stop taking antihistamines (which I've now been addicted to  for 45 years - and which may be a major factor in my "diagnosis"!)

 

The Fexofenadine Is an ugly little antihistamine, and antihistamines can really mess with moods (I think I meant to reference them above, when I was talking about "non psych drugs that can interfere with mood."  

**

I thought of you today as I went to yoga class.  I thought about "husband dependance."  Tonight was "cook's night off," as it was yoga night, and I have a raw food smoothie for dinner.  But as I was headed out to yoga - I felt so bad - tired, achey, light sensitive, headachey, that I wished he could drive me to yoga.

 

At some point, in my dependence upon him - I have to draw a line.  I have to think of him, too.  He would've happily driven me to yoga, and sat in the car for an hour, and driven me home.  Maybe I wasn't the best driver for the 7 minutes it took to get there.  But I steeled myself and did it.

 

What are your lines of independence from your husband - things that you do for yourself, without his help?

 

(sometimes, it's easier to do a thing for myself - like prepare a cup of tea or a wheat pack to my specifications, than it is to describe in detail what I want, too)

**

You wrote about being "stuck":

 

For me it is mostly extreme anxiety. I feel "frozen" as Wellness put it.

 

This is a common withdrawal symptom.  Like I said before, after Wellbutrin I had to sleep for a month.  It seems like an exaggeration - I'm sure I did get to the shops and make meals or something during that time, but I was unable to work, unable to unpack (i had just moved).  A friend kept me alive, every morning at 10 am we would walk through the park with her dog.  Sometimes we would talk, but mostly I couldn't talk, because if I did, I would start crying, and if I started crying, then I would get a headache and be unable to work, and if I couldn't work, I'd lose the house, etc. etc.  Eventually, even she, a Zen Master (and more) said, "maybe you need professional help."

 

That was when I surrendered to the **** drugs.

 

When I first came to SA, anhedonia was one of my major symptoms.  Demotivation is another one which is common.   I said, "I am unhappy on the drugs.  I know how to be unhappy.  I can be unhappy off the drugs." and determined that I would get off them.  The surprise has been, I am off the drugs, and I am not unhappy.  I'm not miraculously healed, but I will never go back to having my brain in a vice again.

 

Here is other people talking about anhedonia and demotivation:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2873-anhedonia-apathy-demotivation/  Again, it's common to have in withdrawal (and while on the drugs - benzos can contribute to this numb, care-less feeling, too).

 

In fact, here is a list of all sorts of "common" symptoms around withdrawal - when you get a new symptom, you can check against this list, and see that others have had it before.  Additionally, you can print out a stack of them, and track your symptoms as they change and morph during your recovery:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

I'll be back, I have just a couple more notes of good things to try for when you feel "out of control."

[JanCarol]

Hi T - last post, I promise, and this is a good one.  Good stuff, here.

 

You asked:

 

Do you have any specific light yoga exercises that you would suggest?

 

Here is one specifically recommended by GiaK for soothing withdrawal and akathisia:

Morning Yoga for the Challenged Nervous System

and another one:

Gentle yoga for calming

 

Here is a little move I do for a "quick fix."  It's a gentle inversion that turns off the sympathetic (fight or flight) nervous system and activates the parasympthetic nervous system (calming, relaxing):

Legs on the wall - switch off your nerves, calm and heal

 

And here's one that is not yoga at all, but which is very pleasurable to do:

Qi Gong: 7 Minutes of Magic for Health

 

Only 7 minutes - you have no excuses!  (that's why I love this video so much - it's hard to think of excuses for not doing a 7 minute thing, eh?)

 

Then, you asked about healing:

 

I've probably asked this before of you or someone else but would I be correct in assuming that when I have those evenings where I pretty much feel normal that when my brain is finally healed that is what it will be like?

 

I'm going to take a stab in the dark, and suggest that this is a tiny glimpse of how you will feel.  After having survived this, you will feel this - and more, better.  Stronger, more confident, and more comfortable with the dark places in your body, mind and nervous system.  

 

And finally, you ask:

How do we know how much to do when we are feeling ok? I didn't think I was pushing too much but my set back the next day, and so far today, seems to say maybe it was too much?

 

 

 

This is also a wise question.  It's hard.  Listen to your body.  I am having to really struggle with this, as I'm in a bit of a crash right now - exercise intolerant, hard to get things done, difficulty pushing myself - and yet - I'm doing things.  

 

But I honor my downtime, my waiting time, it is as important as the things that I actually do.

 

The Chronic Fatigue people talk about it in teaspoons.  Most people have a 100 teaspoons of energy for their day.  Those of us in Chronic illness have more like 10.  And you have to pick your battles, and choose how to "spend" your spoons.  Does it take a whole spoon, just to put on your clothes and tie your shoes?  Does it take 3-4 spoons to pick up milk at the grocery?  Break your tasks down into tiny components - teaspoons - and honor when you are out.  Learn to know how that feels.  "That's it, I'm done."

 

If you push when you are out of teaspoons - you will battle into deeper symptoms, and slow your recovery.

 

One of my favorite quotes is this one:

 

 

A student comes to the master and says, "How long until I reach enlightenment?"  "Ah," said the master, "5 years."  The student earnestly asks, "But if I work really really hard, and earnestly, and strive really hard, how long, then, will it take to reach enlightenment?"  "Ah," said the master, "20 years.!"

 

Take it easy, be gentle with yourself, be patient with yourself.  If you need to rest, rest.  If you need to sleep, sleep.  If you need to eat, eat.  If you need to move, move.  But be mindful, be aware, of whether it is helping or making things harder.

 

The easiest way to do this is what I call "follow your pleasure."  If it feels good to do it, and you feel better for doing it, then it is in the direction of healing.  Sometimes we have to choose things which are against our healing - as we have to work, or tend our children, or clean our house - but as much as you can, find the things which distract you from your discomfort, and lead you in the direction of greater pleasure.

 

This sounds like hedonism, but it is not.  When all sensation has been blocked by the antidepressants - and the depression (I believe) is a signal from your body to redirect your life - all guidance towards the "good things" should be encouraged, and met with gratitude.

 

I hope you find some pleasure to follow today.  It does, and will get better.

[tntd]

Hi JanCarol,

 

I did not get tired of your posts at all. There is so much wonderful information that you have given me. I cried a lot while reading it but that was mostly from feeling validated and accepted. I can't thank you enough for giving your time and information to me. 

 

I am actually doing so much more than I was when I first went off the Wellbutrin. At first I couldn't do anything. Even the simplest tasks seemed insurmountable. I have now gotten back to being able to make dinner on most days. There are some days when it doesn't happen still but more often I am cooking. I actually make the bed everyday too. I am able to make breakfast for myself and my dog (she has special needs so I actually have to make her breakfast). Not much of a list but it is better than where I was. Writing it down sure helps to see that I am doing things. Sometimes I feel like I have done nothing all day, but maybe that is what I needed on that day.

 

I am trying to go outside for at least a little bit everyday. 

 

I so know what you mean about husband dependence. My husband still works so I have to take myself to my own appointments and I have gone with my daughter to a couple of hers. I am mostly housebound right now because of the hypersensitivity. I do things until I feel they are starting to cause anxiety. The evenings are when I seem to be able to do the most. I'm assuming as the anxiety decreases (it will, right?) that I will be able to get out and do some of those things you talked about during the day.

 

When we first moved here we went through the Meetup groups and there were a couple we were giong to join but then life happened. We still plan on joining, I just have to be less reactive to my environment. Having social anxiety makes all of these things extremely difficult though. My big thing has always been to go to school. I'm 50 and I don't know what I want to be when I grow up!! I was planning on going back to school when we moved. I had plans to finish my bachelors degree where we lived but they don't have the same degree here so I was trying to figure out what to do. My memory is pretty bad right now so going back to school is out of the question. Memory and excess anxiety, along with the flourescent lights, hmmm not a good recipe for success right now.

 

There is a group of women from church who have a quilting group. Unfortunately it is on the same day as my DBT group at the VA hospital (it is a really busy place). Before withdrawal I would go and join them for a short time and then go to my group therapy. I want to do that on Wednesday but I think I am not ready for that much stimulation in one day. The DBT group is 2 hours and the drive is about 35 minutes to get there and then back home during rush hour traffic. I would almost prefer the quilting group but I know the therapy will give me more skills that I need to get better. The people in both places are really accepting.

 

I am looking forward to when I can join my husband with the grocery shopping. I know I will get there. I hate to grocery shop by the way, but it is something we have always done together and I miss him when he has to go do it without me. 

 

I did stop the B-Complex. I haven't noticed any changes yet but it has only been one day.

 

Thank you for all of the links. I will be checking them out. I already had the 7 min QiGong one up but hadn't persuaded myself to do it yet. No excuses, I just need to give it a go. 

 

I tried to exercise the other day and it sent me into extreme anxiety and other withdrawal symptoms. I'm not keen to try that again anytime soon. I do try to go for slow walks with my husband, for about 20 minutes. I suppose that's better than nothing which is what most days end up being. At least I'm getting out sometimes

 

Were you ever housbound?

 

I was reading a little of your thread. I hope your infection continues to improve, those are never fun. I appreciate that you took the time to write to me while you are feeling yucky. Another ball you kept in the air

 

I hope you have or had a wonderful day.

 

Hugs

[Mjau]

Hi Mjau,

 

Thanks for your comments. It is really bad when they go the wrong way. 

 

For me it is mostly extreme anxiety. I feel "frozen" as Wellness put it. I have a hard time making myself do anything. There are times when I feel mildly restless and feel the need to rock back and forth or move in some way but it is mild compared to what I experienced with the severe akathisia so I'm not sure what to call it. 

 

Thanks for the suggestions on what to do to help. I have been telling myself everyday that I am going to do some Yoga, or exercise. So I did some gentle exercising yesterday and my anxiety went through the roof. 

 

Do you have any specific light yoga exercises that you would suggest?

 

Thank you again and I hope that your taper helps you find relief as well. 

 

Hi tntd! Thank you for dropping by on my thread! 

 

I'm happy to read that you've had moments when you've felt better - that's great! It's a sign that you are healing!

 

I know this "frozen" feeling as well. Being stuck, not finding one's way out, just laying in the bed looking at the ceiling not knowing what to do.... 

 

If I need to calm down my nervous system I usually do some yoga sun salutations, sometimes one, sometimes three or four in a row depending on how I feel. 

When feeling restless when trying to sleep I usually do some basic leg stretching. I stretch the body parts where I feel the "ants" are crawling. Usually it helps a little.

 

Most of all I think it is important to listen to your body. If some activity makes you feel worse then it's probably better to take a break. I know it's not always easy to know what is the best thing to do in a given moment. We do our best!

 

Hope you're finding relief too!!

[tntd]

Hi Mjau,

 

So good to hear from you. Thank you for the yoga suggestions. I have never been a big fan of yoga but I do like sun salutations so I will give them a try. I'm one of those people who have a hard time holding still so holding poses is not something I enjoy, Unless it's childs pose or Savasana where I tend to practice more on my breathing. 

 

Did you see the links to yoga that JanCarol left for me above? I'm going to check those out too. I really like this one: "Here is a little move I do for a "quick fix."  It's a gentle inversion that turns off the sympathetic (fight or flight) nervous system and activates the parasympthetic nervous system (calming, relaxing):

"  anything to help switch off the fight or flight feelings. 

 

Yeah, the "frozen" feeling is hard to deal with. You know you are making progress because you see it in other things you are able to do but then....nope can't do that to scary. Some days things are easier than others though so I know that is getting better too. Time, the great healer.

 

When I'm frozen in bed though I usually have a sleep mask on and am laying on my stomach just trying to breath but not wanting to get up. The thing that gets me going is my sweet dog. I have to feed her and take her out. Going outside is still on the harder side of things for me but I have had some days where I actually enjoyed it, so this is progress too

 

I'm trying to see the progress instead of the journey ahead. It seems to be helping a bit. 

 

I hope you are doing well and that your taper is progressing in a postive manner.

[Mjau]

I checked the Legs on the Wall. I remember we once did a similar exercise at school. Our sports teacher was sick and another teacher took our class instead. We all went out for a walk and after that we did the exercise. I remember how good it felt then. Such a simple exercise but nevertheless effective. I will try it again!

 

Good to hear you're having some progress!

 

I have two cats and I think having an animal to care for is great in many ways. Just their presence can be soothing. And you do have to activate yourself to care for them. When I was at my worst I still had to feed them, play with them, comb their furs and I think that is therapeutic in its own way.

[Mjau]

Do you still have akathisia tntd? Just have to add one thing that I mentioned in my thread that's been helpful for me. I've got a magnesium lotion with menthol in it. This really helps to lessen the crawling sensations of restless legs and akathisia. It kind of intermingles with the akathisia sensation. It was quite expensive so maybe next time I will see if I can find some kind of menthol liniment. But then - magnesium is also said to be beneficial.

[tntd]

Hey Mjau,

 

I made a magnesium lotion out of epsom salt, water, and a cream. http://www.thegfcflady.com/2009/04/26/epsom-salt-lotion/  Itseems to help. You could probably add some essential oil or buy a lotion that has menthol in it. It might be less expensive.

 

I don't get the creepy crawly feelings just the need to move. Like my body can't stay still and if it does I will go insane. I still get it a little everyday but it doesn't last long and it tends to be in the morning. It goes away when the clonazepam I'm still taking kicks in for the day. I'm not looking forward to that taper, but I have to get through the CT buproprion withdrawal first and I'm only one month in. Maybe I'll be lucky and it won't be that long because I know the benzo taper is going to take a really long time. I suppose it won't be that long in the scheme of things though. A few years versus a lifetime. We can do it and we will be stronger for it!!

 

Hugs and a good nights rest to all of us.

[tntd]

I found a different recipe that looks really good too. https://draxe.com/homemade-magnesium-body-butter/ I might try this next time because the one I made I have to mix everytime I use it because it seperates. This looks a bit thicker but you do have to keep it in the fridge. 

[Mjau]

Thank you for the advice, tntd! The body butter seems really nice with only natural ingredients, I'll have to try it (with added menthol)! 

 

So good that the akathisia seems to get a little better!

 

You are so right, it's much, much better to go for a slow benzo-taper than to be on them for a lifetime. And you're on the right track!

 

Hugs!

[tntd]

Hi Mjau,

 

I'm glad you liked the body butter recipe. I just ordered the ingredients that I didn't have already so I'm looking forward to trying it out. My husband and daughter both suffer from migraines so they like the magnesium stuff too.

 

I just realized after reading your post that I didn't have any akathisia today. My anxiety has been a bit less too. I was able to go outside with my dog and participate in her favorite activity. Playing with the water, she has a little pool that we fill for her though she prefers to chase the stream of water. I was really tired afterwards and didn't play as long as I would have without withdrawal but it was wonderful. She was soooo happy. 

 

I quit taking the b-complex like JanCarol suggested and I wonder if that is part of why I am having less anxiety. Still there but less. I stopped taking it two days ago and she said I would probably be able to tell in three days. 

 

It will be nice to be done with the anxiety, my only issue is I don't know if the anxiety I'm having is from Wellbutrin withdrawal or Benzo tolerance.....Or both??? I've been working with Wellness on the benzo board so hopefully we can get it all figured out.

 

Everyone here is so wonderful and I am so grateful for the help and support and the budding friendships.

 

Hugs and continued healing to everyone.

[tntd]

Yesterday was pretty good. It was sunny outside and I was able to take my sweet dog outside and fill her pool with water, well she preferred chasing the water coming out of the water hose. She has been trying to get me to do this all summer but I just haven't had the energy and found the sun to be over stimulating so I couldn't play with her. We had fun together and I was able to be in the moment and just enjoy playing outside. She's so cute when she is wet and she knows we are done and going inside she trys to wipe her face off on my clothes. It's pretty funny. We went inside and she went straight for my husband to wipe her face on his clothes too. We took her downstairs and got her dried off but she really wanted to go back outside and play in the water more.

 

It was really nice to be able to go outside and want to be outside. The anxiety was really low and while we were playing it was completely gone. I'm wondering if stopping the B-Complex, even though I've been taking it for years, is helping to reduce my anxiety.

 

My husband had to go on a business trip so my anxiety was higher last night but it wasn't as bad as I would have expected. He left this morning and I didn't start having anxiety surges until 8:00. I also had DBT at the VA today. We had taken a two week break and it was our first day back so I was anxious about that too. 

 

When I went to leave for DBT I started crying because I was so anxious. Once I was in the car and concentrating on driving I was fine. I also had magnesium in the water I was drinking so I'm sure that helped too. It turns out that all of the people from the previous DBT group were the same ones in the new group so that relaxed me. It was so nice to chat with people. It made me realize how much my isolation is hurting me. While I was there I had almost no anxiety or anxiety surges. It was good to be out with people. 

 

So, I guess I need to get out, the problem is surmounting that anxiety that attacks me when I start to head out. Plus I need to find someone to get out with so that there is socialization going on. I remember reading soemthing Nadia poseted about socialization being healing.

 

I've been feeling better recently in a way that I find interesting. I am still having the anxiety but I feel happy at the same time. There is no depression or mood swings. I don't know if it just a window for my mood swings but it is kind of weird. I'm not usually in a good mood if I'm feeling anxious. Has anyone else ever experienced this?

 

My headaches have really decreased recently too. I did get a weird side of the head pain? It was almost like a brain freeze, or a stabbing but on the whole side of my head. I've been getting ice pick type of headaches but this was a lot bigger, and it lasted longer. I'm just glad I wasn't driving or anything like that. Nothing like that so far today

 

Well, I'm hoping that this window that I'm having will last for awhile. I would like to start getting out of the house and doing some things.

 

JanCarol I can't thank you enough for recommending that I quit the B-Complex, it really seems to have made a difference. 

 

Hope everyone is continuing to improve. Health and peace for all of us. 

[scallywag]

Sounds like a window to me!  Enjoy:)

[tntd]

Thanks Scallywag

[tntd]

Well, I enjoyed my window and have now started a wave. This wave so far is diffferent though. It doesn't seem to be as deep and I even have moments of "windows" within it.

 

Today is the first day of the wave and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a wave like this? Does it continue in this manner or is it like any other wave and unpredictible from day to day and moment to moment.

 

I'm also entering into the "dark side of the cycle". That's what my husband and I call it since this withdrawal started. Have to add a little humor if you can  So that puts unpredicibility into it automatically. Should be an intersting wave since it has started so gently compared to my other waves. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks for all your support, I don't know where I would be without all of you. Hugs to all.

[tntd]

Even though I'm back in a wave today has been pretty good. I love sipping magnesium in the morning when I first get up. It doesn't eliminate the anxiety but it helps me function. I still take a benzo later in the morning but I don't feel that it is doing much for me anymore. The Magnesium sipping I picked up from Altostrata on the magnesium thread. I found the method of action fascinating. 

 

My husband and I took our dog for a walk this morning and I realized my anxiety was going up. Then I realized I was trying to keep up with my husbands pace the way I normally do. Not good. I asked him to slow down which he did, after apoligizing, and as my breathing regulated my anxiety went down. Guess I'm still not ready to resume my regular workout routine....good to know

 

Despite my increased anxiety, no where near what it was a couple of weeks ago, I decided I wanted to go to the Farmer's Market with my husband this morning. We had a few things we needed to pick up and then we just walked the rest of it. From there we did some shopping and I was able to become absorbed in the moment so I didn't notice the anxiety and mood swings as much. When I did I just let them go, or tried to. We were out for a couple of hours and though I didn't realize it I was almost maxed out. When we got home and I went inside to the low motion, low sound, low light, regular temp of our home my whole body relaxed. The relief was amazing. So I let my hubby finish the shopping and I am relaxing. I don't think I over did it as my anxiety and mood swings haven't increased since I've been home. So I am still suffering from hypersensitivity but at a lower level which is allowing me to go outside and do some things. 

 

I do still find I prefer to go with someone but at least I am leaving the house now. I'm hoping this wave will continue at this level so that I can continue to do other things, even in the house. The anxiety and mood swings were a little worse today than yesterday but not so bad that I had to hide from them. 

 

I'm hoping that my windows and waves continue on the upward trajectory and that I don't fall into any holes. I'm "looking forward" to being able to taper off of my other meds so if things continue in this manner it would be good.

 

I'm feeling pretty good right now. I have noticed that instead of my 5 - 9 feeling better window it has now become a 3 - 9 window. Most days somewhere in that time period most of my withdrawal symptoms abate to some extent. Sometimes I even feel completely like me, those are the best

[KarenB]

That's a great update there TNDT.  It sounds like you are getting really tuned in to what you can and can't handle, and to what is happening for you at different times in your day.  That's going to make a huge difference to how smoothly things go for you - especially since you seem prepared to respond to what your body is telling you it needs.  You've got right down to the heart of living and healing. 

[scallywag]

Oh TNDT.  I feel as if I could do cartwheels I'm so happy to read that you're finding ways to manage in a wave. ((((((((hugs))))))))

[tntd]

Thank you Karen and Scallywag It makes me happy too. A large part of my being able to manage this well is because of the wonderful help I have received from the people on this web site. I wouldn't be doing anywhere near as well as I am without everyones help and all the informative threads. This site is amazing and I am so grateful for it and you.

 

Thank you for the wonderful Hugs Scallywag, you made me smile with your comment Hugs back.

[Mjau]

Is it your dog in the picture? Looks very sweet! 

Great that you are finding ways to deal with the wave! "Dark side of the cycle", that's a good name for it!

[tntd]

Hi Mjau

 

No, it's not my dog. I tried to put a picture of my dog, who is also a German Shepard up but I couldn't get the picture down to 50kB so I found a cute puppy from the internet instead. Puppies are sooo cute.

 

I'm glad you like our name for the second half of our cycle, we're big Star Wars fans and it just seemed to fit so well  Here's hoping that they aren't so dark this month for all of us who have to deal with it!!

 

Hugs

[Mjau]

I like Star Wars too :-) And puppies of course! Hope you're doing well!

[tntd]

I miss going to the movies. I like action adventure and there have been quite a few that have come out this summer. There is no way with my hypersensitivity that I would be able to handle a movie at the theater. At least we can watch them when they come out on DVD/Blu Ray.

 

Well, yesterday ended up being pretty bad. Anxiety through the roof and agoraphobia again. I drank some magnesium and that helped a little. I think not only did I over stimulate but then I also ate too much chocolate. I've been craving carbs and salt, my usual end of the month cravings and they are really hard not to give in to. Well, I think it made the anxiety sooo much worse. I was anxious all the way to bed time and I usually get an evening reprieve. So, was the lack of an evening repreive because of the chocolate (dark) or was it because of my screwy hormones?? Or both. There are so many unknowns with all of this. 

 

This morning I woke with anxiety but not the usual morning cortisol surges. Those haven't plauged me in about a week. It was just low level anxiety that increased after I got out of bed. Still have pretty high levels of anxiety and agoraphobia today. I was able to take the dog out to the bathroom once. My husband did it the rest of the day. Yesterday too. 

 

My hubby had taken Monday and Tuesday off this week because we were supposed to get matching tattoos. Hearts with an infinity symbol and the date of our marriage worked into them. Well, we cancelled the tattoo appointment, can you imagine doing that in withdrawal? I've never had a tattoo so I am really nervous about it anyway. My hubby still took the days off and we did nothing because I'm not up to it. He even cooked dinner both days. He said he didn't mind, he just enjoyed hanging out together.  We are hoping that we can get our tattoos in November or December. We shall have to see though. I don't want to do anything that is going to send me into any kind of wave. Besides, I'm 50 and I don't have a tattoo yet waiting isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

I'm kind of anxious about tomorrow. I'm hoping the anxiety will be down a bit as I have doctors appointments all afternoon. I have to drive myself to them too. First one is with a new psychologist so it will be interesting to see if we connect or not. I don't know if I've ever had a male psychologist before. I have had male psychiatrists and that has never been a problem. After that appointment I have my DBT group and then an appointment with my pscychiatrist. Sounds like a fun filled afternoon!!

 

I have been considering adding something to help with my anxiety during the day. I'm pretty sure it is cortisol related most of the time but during the second half of the month when the hormones get involved will anything like lactium or phosphatidylserine even help? The three day window was really nice and if I can just get my anxiety down low enough that I can function while in a wave, even doing things in the house, it would be great.

[tntd]

Well, my wave has turned into a pretty bad low. All I have wanted to do all day is cry. I woke up with cortisol surges this morning and I haven't had those in awhile. They weren't just anxiety though, there was anger mixed in with them. 

 

I have to go to appointments this afternoon and all I want to do is hide from the world. Nothing is really holding my interest so distraction hasn't been working today. 

 

I took my dog for a walk. I was still anxious at the time and had been drinking magnesium. My moods started swinging around while I was out and by the time I got home it was a "depression" anxiety mix. Since I have to drive I only took .25mg of my clonazepam and will take the rest once I get to my appointments. My mood has just been sinking all morning. 

 

I'm using my Alpha-Stim now and hoping it will help. It often brings me back up, the problem is I won't get my full session in this morning before I have to leave.

 

How did you alll make it through these waves? It helps to know you did. I think I've mentioned before that in some ways the depression is harder for me to deal with because it is new to me. I'm pretty sure a lot of this has to do with my hormones but knowing that doesn't make it any easier. I try to think of the window I just had but it so hard when it feels like this will never end. I feel like I'm rambling but it helps so much to write it down. I feel like I just don't know how I'm going to make it through this. I keep telling myself this too shall pass, and I can do this but it is hard to keep those thoughts foremost when my brain doesn't want them. 

 

I want my life back, I want me back and I know so many of you know what I mean. When I'm in a wave I wonder if I will be able to make it through this. The anxiety and depression will they ever fully go away. It scares me. 

 

I looked back through my journal and I seem to be following the same pattern as I did last month. It seems right now like it is just as bad as it was last month too. I try not to but the thought that this may be how my months go indefinitely sneaks in and I just don't know how long I can do this. 

 

I know I'll keep going and keep trying but sometimes I just don't want to. 

[tntd]

Today has been a weird day. Woke with anxiety surges but got up and didn't really feel anxious. Made my magnesium drink anyway and took my dog for a walk. Had occasional surges of anxiety but mostly felt good. I don't know if good is the word for it. I felt not anxious but not not anxious, weird. I've been feeling kind of odd all day. Some mood swings and a little low. Feeling lonely. The one thing that's constant is that I feel really tired. 

 

My husband came home yesterday to give me the car so I could drive to my doctors appointments but I was crying so much that he called in to work and took me to the appointments because he didn't want me to drive like that. The VA is about 40 minutes away so it's not a short trip.

 

I got to meet my new psychologist. He was really nice. He has dealt with people in withdrawal before and even knew what windows and waves were. He said he was going to look through my info and history and see if he could find something to help with the withdrawal as well. He did say that he felt that my trauma history combined with perimenopause and cold turkey from buproprion was a perfect storm to cause the withdrawal. I thought that was interesting, especially in light of what my psychiatrist said later. I'm sure it all interacts in some way.

 

DBT was good. At least I finally stopped crying while I was with the group.

 

Also had an appointment with my psychiatrist. He just visits and sees how the withdrawal is going. He said Buproprion doesn't ususally cause withdrawal so he isn't familiar with how it's process goes. He also said he would not give me anything right now because my CNS is too sensitive. I just have to wait it out. He said I'll fee beeter, then worse, then better, the worse, etc....

 

He said Paxil and Effexor are the worst for withdrawal and his experience with people on those has been limited. They usually recovered in about the same amount of time it took for them to adjust to going on to the medicine so he is hoping that will be the case with me as well. I told him about Altostrata's 6+ years of withdrawal and he just winced and said that sounded awful. 

 

An interesting fact that he shared with me is that alcoholics (he is an addictionologist) experince withdrawal and then usually have PAWS affect them months later. But what was really interesting is that if a person is an alcoholic for a long time and never tries to stop they will have less withdrawal and PAWS than someone who starts and stops repeatedly. I asked if that would be the same for antidepressants and he said he believed it would be. I then asked what if it the starting and stopping happened years ago with a huge break of years in between and he said he still thinks it would cause worse withdrawal and possible PAWS because the CNS was sensitized. So for all of us that have been on and off medications that explains a lot. It is also probably why I ended up with withdrawal from buproprion even though it is rare. 

 

I also asked if I would know when I was through the buproprion withdrawal if I had reached tolerance/interdose withdrawal with my benzo. He said we wouldn't know. He said if all goes well we can try to start withdrawing from the clonazepam in about six months. I forgot to ask about the Buspar but he wants to see me in two weeks to see how I'm doing. I count myself so lucky to have a pdoc that gets it. Doesn't make the withdrawal process any easier to go through except I don't have to fight with the medical establishment to have my needs met. I wish everyone could find a doctor that gets it.

 

So, today has kind of seemed like a window. I'm feeling down but not like yesterday and I'm having almost no anxiety. I opened the windows and let the sun in the house which is something I almost never do right now. I have felt kind of apathetic but not enough that I have done nothing. In fact I mad a couple of beesewax candles and have been doing some straightening and laundry. Not sure what to think of how I'm feeling but it's better than yesterday

 

I hope everyone is able to find something to be grateful for today. Healing and Hugs

[tntd]

I'm copying this over from my benzo thread. I don't know if anyone will have any insights into this but if you do I would love to hear them.

 

I have been reading through the begining of this thread (my benzo thread) and I noticed that I am having similar anxiety problems now to what I was having at this time last month. It got me thinking. I think I go into a bit of benzo withdrawal the second half of each month. I know we have talked about the progesterone dropping and how that can change the anxiety levels. So now I am wondering if this is giong to be what happens every month. I'll have a week or so where things seem to be getting better and then the progesterone drops and I seem to be in the depths of withdrawal again, just as bad as ever.

 

Will going off of the benzo make any difference with this scenario?

Am I going into a benzo withdrawal every month? 

Will the second half of the month get any better as my CNS heals from the CT from buproprion while I am still taking the benzo?

 

Considering that my cycle has shortened due to perimenopause I am a little disheartened. The second half of my cycle happens more often right now. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[tntd]

I've been having a pretty rough time of it since July 14th. The anxiety has been really bad and I have been completely agoraphobic. Haven't had the shades open since July 14th either. 

 

I've been having some pretty bad morning anxiety surges and then this morning I didn't. I'm still struggling with a lot of anxiety once I get up regardless of whether I have surges in the morning or not. 

 

We bought a blackout shade for our room. Don't know if it's helping or not. Light still gets in just not nearly as much. 

 

I'm really frustrated that I feel frozen again. I can't get myself outside and I can't even get myself to exercise inside. I'm not sure if it's anxiety keeping me from exercising or fatigue or just being in a wave. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

Having a range of emotions but mostly anxiety. Other physical symptoms have returned as well. Abdominal cramps, headaches, joint aches, restlessness, agitation, pacing, rocking, nightmares. Wired and tired again. 

 

I've been debating about going ahead and starting my benzo taper since we don't know if all of my wave symptoms are due to benzo tolerance and hormonal changes or if I am still having buproprion withdrawal. I would be doing a micro-taper.

 

Does anyone who CTed and was also on benzo's have any thoughts on this?

 

I feel like I'm back at the begining of my CT from buproprion but we don't know if it is that or the hormonal interactions with the benzos. My pdoc and Wellness both said there will be no way to know where one ends and the other begins and I'm really frustrated and scared. Right now all I can see is hiding in my house for the next two to three years. My benzo taper is going to be long. 

 

Have many people experienced the anxiety/agoraphobia for years due to withdrawal?

[tntd]

I'm still in a wave. It has been a rough one, though I think the deepest part didn't last as long as it did last month. It was just as deep but not as long. I'm not sure though because I have started using Magnesium citrate during the day. Drinking it seems to really help with the anxiety levels. Sometimes it even helps me be able to get outside. It also makes me sleepy though. 

 

I had my DBT group on Wed, the 20th, and I was so anxious and agoraphobic that I started to cry uncontrollably. My husband was there to switch vehicles but instead he ended up taking me to the meeting. I don't think I would have made it if he hadn't decided to take me.

 

The next day I had a hair appointment. I was just as anxious and started crying again but this time I decided to take some magnesium citrate, about 44mg, in a drink and it reduced my anxiety enough that I was able to leave the house. I haven't really gone anywhere since then and my anxiety is still really high. 

 

Yesterday we had some major storms come through and I ended up with a serious migraine and anxiety surges that were timed with the lightning. That was not fun. I still have a bit of a migraine today. I haven't taken anything other than magnesium for it because I am really nervous to try any Meds and the only thing I could take for my migraines previously was coffee/caffeine. I don't think that would go over well with the extreme anxiety I am already experiencing. 

 

My husband went out and did the grocery shopping today. I was super anxious when I woke up but I had a magnesium drink. It helped a little but not so much so a couple of hours I had another one. Both were about 44mg so a total of 88mg. The anxiety went away but then I felt down and tired and didn't want to do anything. I've also had some memory problems today but that could be from the migraine. 

 

I've been struggling with the concept of acceptance. I understand it but the application is difficult. I suppose as I practice it will get better. One of my issues though is that I don't have any ruminations or thoughts associated with the anxiety. I'm just anxious for no reason, neuro-anxiety I guess, I'm not sure if any of the coping skills work for neuro-emotions.

 

The "depression", that might actually have a basis in my current situation. I've never had to deal with "depression" before though so it is a little harder for me to know how to handle.

 

I'm hoping to get a window soon, it would be nice to have a break.

[tntd]

Life keeps going. I did have a window and it was nice. Started back into a wave yesterday, hoping maybe it won't be as bad as the last one was. More depression this time so far and I have a harder time dealing with that since it is new and I haven't learned and practiced the coping skills associated with it. Plus I'm pretty well isolated. 

 

I had DBT group today and we discussed opposite action for emotions. If you feel depressed and you want to withdraw and isolate then go out and do something. I'm wondering if it works the same in withdrawal. Is it as easy to go out and do something, especially since for me I experience a lot of anxiety and agoraphobia with the depression. Every time I think I want to get out because I'm feeling down and I know it would help I get really anxious about going out. Scares me to death. Anyone else have this problem?

 

Hope everyone is experiencing some level of healing. 

[downtongirl]

TNDT...so sorry you are suffering....you are a strong person...are you still having akathisia?  I think I sometimes suffer from this....did I read early on in your thread that your doctor gave you a blood pressure medicine for akathisia and it helped?  If so which one was it?

[ChessieCat]

I read something here on SA recently about if it is withdrawal agoraphobia or whatever symptom you are getting then don't push it because it causes more anxiety for the CNS.

 

It really bugs me when I can't find something when I know it is there.  Oh well, at least I remembered roughly what was said.

[tntd]

Hi Downtongirl,

 

Thanks for your compassion. I sometimes will have mild akathisia in a wave, nothing like what I had when I was getting it as a side effect. I think I heard someone say they felt like their feet turned to jelly because they couldn't stop walking. I think that is pretty accurate. My whole body ached from not being able to even sit down. Now it is more like feeling restless and I do pace a little but I can usually settle by focusing on something else. 

 

My Dr gave me a beta blocker called propranolol. It worked wonders for me but it also made me really "depressed". I am really suceptible to medication induced depression though.

 

Hi ChessieCat,

 

Thank you for the info. I think I read that somewhere on here too but it's good to be reminded and I know what you mean about not being able to find what you read. There is soooo much information on this website I can't remember where I read most of the stuff that has helped me.

 

It's frustrating because the facilitators of my DBT group don't understand withdrawal, they've never worked with it, so they think I can just use regular coping skills to get rid of neuro emotions. It's hard to use CBT when there is no underlying thought to the anxiety. Using opposite action to neuro emotions, I don't know, especially because of the severe anxiety. I've been trying to use acceptance but when the anxiety is severe the only thing that works is distraction. 

 

http://www.get.gg/docs/AcceptingAnxiety.pdf I read this and have tried to do it but it's almost like I know I'm trying to do it to get rid of the anxiety so the idea that I need to do it without the desire to get rid of the anxiety is like playing games in my mind. I've been finding it really hard to do. It's as convoluted as my sentence sounds!!

 

I like your signature Chessie.....Keep Holding On! Sometimes that's all we can do. It sure is a wild ride.

 

Thanks to both of you for your responses and I hope your tapers are going well. 

[tntd]

Well the wave continues but so far it hasn't been as bad as my last one, knock on wood. Yesterday my anxiety was up and down from severe to not to bad. My daughter had a coffee date with her boyfriend's sister and mother and I wanted to go. My daughter gets along with them so well that we figured I would too. 

 

So all day I fought with myself. I'm going, I'm not going, I'm going, I'm not going...etc. It really depended on how bad the anxiety was at that particular moment. So I got on the computer and distracted myself until my anxiety got down low enough and then made a decision to get in the shower and try to go.....I made it. I was really glad that I went because her boyfriend's mom and I got along really well. I'm sure we will get together again so maybe a new friend that lives in the area. I certainly need those. The anxiety rebounded really high once we left the coffee shop. We had found a quiet place but it was still really bright and noisier than my house so I think that didn't help.

 

Today I feel awful physically but I think it's because of something I ate. It is something I know causes me problems but I thought just a little wouldn't hurt, wrong. I ache from head to toe and am having brain zaps along with fatigue so bad I can barely keep my eyes open. I guess I won't be having a little bit of that, it's pork, again for awhile!! My emotional wave remains about the same as it has been since I entered this wave. The emotions are up and down and lots of mood swings but the moods aren't as intense so far. I'm hoping it won't get much worse as I get further into my cycle. Time will tell but in any case I am obviously improving, yay!! Now to remember that if the wave gets really bad towards the end...

 

Hugs to eveyone, keep on keeping on....we will get there.

[ChessieCat]

Hi tndt

 

I'm really pleased that you managed to get to the coffee date.  And it's great that you enjoyed it.  It's a shame that you are paying for it the next day.  Unfortunately I think that is part of this whole thing.  I sometimes find that during the night after I've been out for the day that I wake up and my might won't stop.  I've put it down to being overstimulated.

 

Do you drink coffee?  If you aren't drinking coffee at home and then had one when you went out, the caffeine may have caused/added to your problems.  I don't know what pork you ate, but could it have had MSG in it?  I am MSG-intolerant and many things contain flavour enhancers.  I'm also very susceptible to air freshers.

 

I hope you take care of yourself and recover quickly.

[tntd]

Hi ChessieCat,

 

Thanks for the support, I was really glad I was able to make it to the coffee date too. I don't drink coffee so I had a coffee free drink that ended up being so sweet that I took it home and my husband drank it! I think I was just overstimulated by being out. Unfortunately I'm deeper into the wave today and the anxiety and agoraphobia have decided to join the party along with a nice crying spell. 

 

I don't know what the pork may have had in it but I have had problems with pork for a few years. I thought I could get away with a little but if there was anything added, like MSG, that would have made it even worse. My husband brought it home from work because it was left over from an event they had, however both my husband and daughter ended up with headaches so that points to something like MSG being in the pork. I think I'll just stay away from it for awhile anyway.

 

I'm also very sensitive to chemicals in general so my house is pretty much a chemical free zone. We had a dog that had chemical sensitivities so we got rid of all our chemical cleaners and such and I ended up feeling a lot better too so we have never gone back. 

 

Congratulations on Australia winning bronze in the synchronized diving competition. 

 

Hope your taper continues to go well.

 

I was wondering if you ever experienced agoraphobia. One of the things I would love to do so that I can meet people, get out of the house and try to have some kind of life is to volunteer. I volunteered a lot in the last city we lived in and I enjoy it and I know it can help but I in every wave I have hit a point where I become agoraphobic and I never know when it is going to happen so I'm not sure if I should try to volunteer or wait awhile since I am only a little over two months into my cold turkey. 

 

Thanks again for you support, hugs.

[tntd]

I'm still in a wave. Woke up with anxiety surges but was able to doze off and on but continued to awaken due to adrenaline surges. Finally got up and the anxiety just got worse. I took my dog for a walk which usually seems to help temporarily but the anxiety returned pretty quickly once I got home. Then I started to have mood swings too, sigh. 

 

Last night I was talking with my son and he told me that he has an appointment next week to see if they should put him on medication for his "depression". He is a bit socially akward and has always had trouble making close friends. He is in the Air Force and for some reason the people in his shop are ostracizing him so he has no friends. He also has a room to himself so he is isolated after work as well. I've been trying to get him to go out and join a group of some sort and he has done a couple of things since he has been there but nothing long term. He told me that he feels better for about two weeks after he has been able to have a deep conversation with someone. I think he has situational "depression" which doesn't need meds it needs a change in the situation. It's so hard because he is so far away. I'm planning on Skyping with him this weekend and I'm going to try to help him not get on meds. If anyone has any suggestions I am definitely open to them.

 

I doubt they will do any tests to see if he has any underlying phsycial condition but if he goes in with a request for them they might. I'm also going to suggest to him that he request group therapy like DBT if they offer it. I'm really worried about him and that is not helping with this wave I'm in. I'm very frustrated and scared for him and there is really nothing I can do. 

 

If anyone has any suggestions on what I should suggest to him when I talk with him this weekend I would really appreciate it. My brain is drawing blanks right now.

 

Thanks