chrona: in bad shape, can't think, can't cope, help needed

[chrona]

i thought i was withdrawing successfully from gabapentin.  i am apparently very bad off because i had to go very very slow.  i thought i was doing ok and i upped very slowly the amount of dissolved liquid i was withdrawing from the beaker.  i was stressed, but every night would go back down in dose to get a good sleep.  i was unable to tolerate attempts to withdraw more so i went back to the dose that seemed comfortable.  i was no longer comfortable.  at all.  then i upped the dose 30% i thought acc. to the rules here.  i am radically uncomfortable now at any dose.  i am desperate and there is no end.  i am thinking of going to a doctor to see if i can get a lot of benzos to withdraw.   i am afraid of compounding my problem.

 

i was take 300 mg. gaba 6xs a day.  i was getting breakthrough symptoms anyway but didn't realize it.  

[Brandy]

Welcome, Chrona!

 

I am not knowledgeable about gabapentin tapers but there are people here who can give you excellent advice.

 

I'm just online for a moment but saw your post and not only wanted to welcome you and assure you that there is amazing knowledge and advice here that help people, and which the medical profession is not aware of and not acknowledging (unfortunately!). I expect that with a little more information you will find better ways to taper and heal from the med. Please don't change your dose until you get that advice, which should be soon. Too many random dose changes of meds can cause chaos in the nervous system. For the moment, try to let your nervous system stay steady and settle down.

 

I mostly want to urge you NOT to get benzos to deal with your taper. With a sensitized nervous system, other meds may help very briefly and then turn on you, or very possibly aggravate your condition. Benzos are one of the hardest meds to get off of, and can cause long-lasting bad effects. And you are right to be concerned that they may well compound the problem you are having, as well as adding a new one. Benzos can cause very difficult addiction in as little as one or two weeks in some people.

 

I wish I knew more about gabapentin, but there are people here who do and they will be along to help. Hang in there and know that withdrawals can be handled in far better ways than the medical profession is knowledgeable about. In the meantime, please make and post a list of meds (of any kind), doses and dose changes with dates, and also any nutritional supplements or herbs you may be taking or have taken in the last year or so, or longer if possible. That way people can give you advice appropriate to your particular situation. Again, welcome. You will find understanding and support here.

[chrona]

thank you.  just to hear from someone helps.  i am really crazed. 

i hadn't known that i should have stayed at the slightly reduced dose for longer.  instead i wanted to keep forging ahead and continued slowly reducing.  

 

now i am nearly back at my original full dose and still am crazed.   one problem i have is forgetting doses if i am out or even asleep.  every 3 hours is a lot and if i am delayed i get really de-stabilized.

 

i think i was on the drug longer than anyone else i have seen on line.  i can't remember exactly but at least 3 years at 1800mg /day.

 

i think i have destroyed my brain, my nervous system, and my life.  i have an underlying condition with nervous system involvement.

[Brandy]

Hi! - Just a really, really quick post because I have to dash out to do errands before places close for the holiday weekend.

 

Please know that it's not a matter of destroying brain/nervous system. All meds that work on the CNS (central nervous system) do so by causing changes in our brain and nervous system, but those changes can and do heal! There's a lot about that on this site, and I'm sure people who post more (I'm only rarely here now) can give you a lot of good links to learn more about this. btw - I was put on meds for a neurological condition too. Long story, but was put on for seizure disorder (epilepsy), though I do think a lot of the times I was told I was getting worse, were really for numerous times I was taken on and off and switched cold-turkey etc. various meds.

 

I don't even remember all the meds I was on for many, many decades. But as you're able (I understand that you're feeling miserable right now, so do it as you can), try to compile a list of what you took and doses/dose changes in recent years. If you don't remember exact dates (understandable!), estimate as well as you can. It will help enormously for those experienced with your med and with tapering, to have the most accurate information about your individual situation, especially the last year or two. With a general idea of previous years' meds.

 

You may need to make changes in your present dose but wait for better guidance than I can give you. I know a LOT (too much!) about withdrawal, but although I have been on w/d groups for many years now and learned a lot, tapering advice is not my area of expertise and there are people here who are super on that. But just until you receive and can evaluate the advice you'll be getting, I urge you not to destabilize your CNS further by adding or changing anything from what you're presently taking. Just til you get more information and can make a good plan to start out with. It's always best to make changes, including tapering dose, carefully and only according to what you'll learn is the best schedule for your particular body. There are general rules, but many differences on what works best for various people, and this group can help you find what will work best for you. The general idea is to try to taper slowly in harmony with one's individual healing pattern. There is a great deal of information here about how best to do this at the various stages of your w/d and healing. You are fortunate to have found that now - I wish I had known about all this during my (many) tapers. I'm the poster child for what NOT to do! You still have the chance to do things better and that will help a lot!

 

Oh, one more suggestion. Please keep pen and paper or (better) notepad next to your med, and write down every dose of meds (and supplements if you take any) and the time you take it. Also note any significant change in symptoms (again with the time of day). Most of this you'll never need lol - but some of it will be invaluable over time in seeing patterns. Responses to meds and other things are not always immediate. Some are just coincidence, or the unpredictable ups and downs of w/d - but some patterns may emerge that can help you enormously over time. (Plus if you're like me, you just won't remember when or even if you took a dose unless you write it down. It becomes habit over time, even if it seems like an effort initially.)

[chrona]

i need to write down what time i do a dose.  i completely forget.  at least i lay out the number of pills for the day so i can keep track.  i need an alarm also so i don't fall behind and then go into withdrawal. 

it looks like no one is doing gabapentin.  

it would be really helpful if i could talk to someone who knew about it. 

 

i would like to know your story, brandy,  i will see if i can find it here. 

[SquirrellyGirl]

Welcome to SA, chrona - I'm glad you found us!

 

Brandy, thank you for doing a fine job on getting chrona started.

 

It would help us immensely if you could fill out your signature block, as Brandy has, by following these instructions:

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

I am also not up on Gabapentin withdrawal and tapering, but will bring your situation to the attention of the other mods who do know.

 

The information Brandy requested about dosing, along with your history of dosage changes, will help us out.  Note your symptom pattern.  We need to know what "uncomfortable" means in the way of symptoms.

 

Meanwhile, I will provide you with some links that should prove helpful.

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Symptoms Checklist

Symptoms:  Important topics about symptoms

Symptoms & Self Care

 

Tips for tapering off Neurontin (gabapentin)

 

We'll see you soon with answers and questions!

 

SG

[chrona]

i didn't know anyone wanted to know specifics.  i actually don't really know the dose i am on.  i put 300 mg pill in 250 ml of water, dissolve, and withdraw 10 ml.  i had "stabilized" at 15 ml withdrawn but got too ambitious trying more and blew myself out of the water.  went back to 10.  i started this in april so it has been 3 months.  at first i was just trying to cut down 300 mg at a time and that was ridiculous,  i was in agony and waiting it out didn't make it any better.

 

"uncomfortable" is indescribable.  there are things like no memory,  stumbling, dropping things, so spaced out i have to sit down quietly.  one might say it's anxiety but it is so far beyond anxiety... horrendous depression,guilt, feelings of worthlessness and failure when i wake up.  i try to deal with that spiritually during the day,  but it is alway there in the background.   a friend says i have sounded like i have had a couple of drinks.  one friend flat out admitted i am more stupid.  there is a constant feeling of tension,  muscle tension but like every cell in my body is tense.  like everything is drawn in , drawn up.  

 

i think i did write my personal signature.  it that isn't enough let me know. 

[chrona]

clonazepam is the only thing that gives relief.  a little worried about getting strung out on it.  a friend wants me to go to a drug withdrawal doctor and i think he would give that to me.  

i also have high stress in my life which is really destructive.

[Shep]

Hi, chrona.

 

Welcome to the forum from me, too. 

 

Thank you for adding your signature and for the additional information about other medications. I really believe the clonazepam is a major player in how badly you're feeling right now.

 

How long have you been taking clonazepam? Please write down every time you take it and note your symptoms. 

 

We have a members-only benzo forum. Please take a look at this section, as it will provide a lot of information on this class of medication: 

 

Members-only benzo forum

 

As Brandy wisely stated, using benzos to deal with withdrawal from other drugs can cause all sorts of problems. A dependency on clonazepam (or any other benzodiazepine) can develop in as little as 2 weeks and benzos are notorious for turning paradoxical and creating all sorts of problems. 

 

Please also put all of your medications in this drug interaction checker and paste the results - 

 

Drug Interactions Checker -- use it to reduce your drug burden

 

As SquirrelyGirl and Brandy noted, please keep careful track of your symptoms as this will help guide your taper so your withdrawal will be as gentle a landing as possible. 

[mammaP]

Hi Chrona,  welcome from me too.  Sadly you have been tapering very fast, although 3 months seems to be very slow, we recommend tapering 10% of the current dose with at least 4 weeks between cuts.  You are not alone in this, many of us came here after tapering too fast and in a terrible state, it is not your fault, it is hard to find tapering information and doctors haven't a clue.  

 

I agree that holding where you are is the best thing right now, you need to be at the same dose every day in order to get stable.  I also agree that the clonazepam is affecting this too, and wouldn't change that either until one of the benzo experts has had a look.  How do you take the clonazepam, once a day, several times or when needed?     

 

Try not to panic, this isn't forever and we will try and get you into a dosing routine that will help you to feel better. When you are stable you can start to taper again, hang in there, this is the first step, working out what is causing you to feel this bad and work out the best way forward. 

[Brandy]

I'm so glad you did the signature. I've been wracking my brains all evening with this feeling I couldn't shake off that there was a piece missing from this puzzle. I was going to ask you about regular alcohol or recreational drug use, and if those are substances you've been using, please be honest with us since they affect the CNS too. But I think your signature gave me - and the mods who have been responding - the missing piece of the puzzle I'd been trying to find.

 

Was it the gabapentin or the clonazepam that was started in 2012? Or both? Or did you just start the clonazepam in recent months to address the gabapentin withdrawal?

 

If the latter, was it clonazepam or another benzodiazepine that you took prior to that, and when and which one/what dose?

 

I want to suggest that the key to starting to feel better at this time is to even out all your doses to keep the levels in your bloodstream as even as possible. That means determining the level of clonazepam your body is accustomed to at this time (since you mentioned you've been taking more than the previous 1 mg/day dose), and for how long and what time or times of day you dose it.

 

I speak from experience that going up in dose on the clonazepam might help you feel better for possibly a couple of days or even longer, but is likely to then make you feel worse. (This happened to me once, when my CNS was destabilized by another w/d. Not worth it.) Don't worry - there is a way you can most likely feel much better without increasing your dose, and that is evening out the doses you take so you take the same amount each dose and at the same time each day. With all your meds, but especially the clonazepam.

 

You might want to read my posts in Delia's thread - you can scroll down to my post #71 near the bottom of the page http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11626-delia-taking-carbamazepine/page-2 then continue on to the next page. In her case, she was taking clonazepam every third day, which isn't relevant to you. But it shows what a difference evening out the levels in the bloodstream can make. (I was taking the exact same dose each morning, but helped some persistent problems I was having late at night by gradually dividing that same dose to two half doses per day, taken exactly 12 hours apart. You may not need to divide your dose throughout the day, but it's important to take the exact same amount at the same time each day.)

 

Suggestion - I find it very difficult to remember to take my clonazepam doses on time because I don't feel withdrawal or rebound immediately at all. (But when they hit, they slam me hard.) Rebound is a form of withdrawal where we feel the original symptoms but much worse than they were originally (which can be very deceptive). I found that kitchen timers really help; a countdown timer like the ones on cell phones are another way, especially when you need to take a dose when you're not home. And in any case, always write down the time and amount of the dose taken (of each med you take) in a list you can refer back to. It will become habit to do that after a while.

 

Please re-read this post and answer the questions about how long and past usage of (any) benzos, as well as about how much you're taking and how often each day now. I know it's hard to be barraged by questions when you're not feeling well because of w/d. I admire you for just being able to do your signature. I remember when I was in w/d from my last med compiling a signature felt like climbing Mt. Everest! But the reason I stress the importance of those questions is because with that information we can help you even out your doses in a way that will work best in helping you start feeling better soon!

[JanCarol]

Hey Chrona - welcome

 

There have been many here who have gotten off gabapentin, usually as part of a complex cocktail, as it is often given for pain, or to mediate the side effects from neuroleptic drugs (also called "antipsychotics.")

 

I will echo Brandy's, Shep's, and Mamma's concern about the creeping increase in Klonopin.  It is a difficult drug to get off.  It's very addicting, and our members only benzo forum is the best place to learn about how to taper off of it.

 

I think, for now, it's time to hold - stabilize - stay on the same dose you are on for a month, and let's see what your symptoms are before we approach a taper.

 

As Mamma and Brandy said - you haven't damaged your brain.  Instead, you've acclimated your body, brain, and nervous system to some chemicals that are tricky to withdraw from.

 

You are not alone, and that you have come down without breakthrough pain is a good sign that you will be able to come off these drugs safely.

 

While you are holding, it is a good time to learn about withdrawal, and Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

This list was made for antidepressants, but it is a common list of symptoms experienced in psych drug withdrawal.  You can check your symptoms against the list and reassure yourself that this is "normal in withdrawal":  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

Here is a description of how our brains adapt to the drugs, and why we need to take extra care coming off of them:

Rhi's description of healing the brain

and another perspective from a short video:

Healing from Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery (by Toxic Antidepressants)

 

When you've been on the same drugs for a month, and can tell us your symptoms then, it will be clearer to suggest a path for you to take to get off of them.

 

It's criminal the way these drugs are handed out like candy - and yet cause long term changes to our systems!

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[ItsNearlyMedlessKateAgain]

Hi Chrona, I just wanted to welcome you and reassure you that you will get through this. I took gabapentin for 14 years and it took three attempts to completely withdraw, but I did finally manage it last October (don't follow my method, I went too quick!) Follow the great advice available here and you will succeed. Remember to be gentle with yourself - mentally, physically, and spiritually. You are healing and that takes time.

[chrona]

i wonder if benzos are easier to get off of than gaba.   i would consider clonazepam a way for me to get off this hellish merry go round.  probably everyone thinks their drug is the worst and also it's probably individualistic to one's biochemistry what drug is most difficult. 

on blue light there are long threads by drug addicts how horrible gabapentin is.  worse than crack, heroine, whatever.  

 

i have had sleep issues all my life.  i have been on and off clonazepam.   it is has never seemed a particular problem getting off.  i have only taken it at night for sleep,  or if some life issue was so dreadful i would rather be unconscious than alive.   ( very rare)  clonazepam is not a fun drug unless you are racked with some kind of anxiety.  i also never got hooked on a lot, all day. 

i need to read about the paradoxical reaction, i have never had it. 

 

my doctor gave me gaba for sleep so i wouldn't take Klonopin that i asked for.   i have a health condition i am v. freaked out by and was willing to put up with the trash drug that makes you feel drunk.  i wasn't on any drug but propranolol when i started gaba. 

 

the dreadfulness of gaba is hard to describe.  the worst feeling i have even felt short of screaming pain.  along with it is extreme short temperedness.  paralysis of will.  

i don't do alcohol or other drugs,  my system is ultra sensitive and i can't .  i would love to drink and feel happy and sociable. 

 

thanks so much for the help.  it's so much better not to be alone.  i will read all the links when my brain starts functioning later. 

[chrona]

evening out doses:   my body had gotten used to a dose every 3 hours.   it seems the time period between is getting shorter.  in other words,  my body starts getting de-stabilized at about 2 hours and 45 minutes.   i try to wait for the 3 hours,  but i wonder if i am hurting myself that way.   i start feeling very bad and it takes a long time to feel not horrible.  ( not horrible is the best i can say for myself )

should i just take it at shorter intervals so i don't de-stabilize?  so i stay evened out?

[chrona]

brandy,

  i think you are implying i am having such a hard time reducing gaba bc of some other element,  possibly clonazepam.   maybe.  but i also have a problem with an illness with neuro aspects so i am thinking that is the reason it is so hard.  some of my symptoms,  like sleeplessness,  agitation, etc,  i had already when activated with this illness.  

   i found out by accident i was addicted to gaba.  i was researching risperdal as my mentally challenged but not psychotic brother was put on it and having tardive diskynesia.   i sometimes think all psychiatrists should be taken out and shot.  executed for ruining lives with impunity.  it makes me so mad the destruction they have wreaked on lives.  i talked to my brother's shrink about it and she said "risperdal has no withdrawals".

[Tootsieroll]

Just a word of caution on benzos.  They are the worst of the worst.  I should know.  If you go over to benzobuddies.org forum you can see all the suffering over there.  I took only for 2-3 months and its taking me over 2 years to still recover from it.  I hope you find a natural solution to your symptoms.

[chrona]

tootsie, 

    i have been doing a lot of reading here and i am coming around to the view that taking a bunch of benzos to get off gabapentin could very easily exchange one nightmare for another.   how much were you taking?  i guess i could just read your profile. 

 

    this drug and the withdrawal makes me so stupid.  i apologize for my convoluted and confusing posts. 

 

[Altostrata]

It sounds like you could take smaller amounts at 2 hr 45 min intervals.

[chrona]

ok.  but i don't know how to do the calculations.  i am very very spaced out.  

 

i'll just drink a little bit less of my solution i suppose.

 

i accidentally drank a dose too soon ( i don't even know how soon)  and i felt ok for a while.  i was amazed,  i thought i was getting used to the taper.  but no. 

[chrona]

i have reinstated and feel as bad as i did before i reinstated.  it's been at least a week,  what does this mean?  

this is when i get desperate and crazy and want to take benzos all day for 6 months to get off. 

i feel trapped. 

i did this to myself by being a little bit too macho. 

other people don't seem to have so much difficulty, though truly it may be my underlying illness that is making it harder for me than others. 

 

do i go back to a dose that makes me feel ok?  

[Altostrata]

You will need an oral syringe to properly measure out doses. If you've been estimating, you may be causing problems for yourself by inconsistent dosing.

 

Oral syringes are available at compounding pharmacies such as Pharmaca, Parnassus Heights Pharmacy, Koshland's, and some Walgreen's. Veterinarians carry them, too.

[chrona]

i have been using a syringe that measure in 5 ml increments so that may not be accurate enough.  

[SquirrellyGirl]

What dosage are you measuring with the 3 ml syringe, chrona?  As long as you are mixing your solution the same way each day and measuring to the same line on the syringe daily, it should be accurate.

 

SG

[chrona]

the up-dosing i did has not helped me at all.    and since every little bit is a battleground,  losing some of that ground is depressing.  and i don't know what criteria to use in starting tapering again.  since i feel so bad and am not stabilizing,  how will i know when to taper?

[scallywag]

chrona:
 
I've moved your post to the Introductions Forum so that more people will see your question. It was in the Symptoms forum topic titled "Did antidepressant reinstatement work for you?"
 

i didn't know anyone wanted to know specifics.  i actually don't really know the dose i am on.  i put 300 mg pill in 250 ml of water, dissolve, and withdraw 10 ml.  i had "stabilized" at 15 ml withdrawn but got too ambitious trying more and blew myself out of the water.  went back to 10.  i started this in april so it has been 3 months.  at first i was just trying to cut down 300 mg at a time and that was ridiculous,  i was in agony and waiting it out didn't make it any better.

 
Thanks in advance for helping me out with my obtuseness by answering this question:
Were you taking the 10 ml of gabapentin solution or did you discard the 10 ml and consume the remaining 240 ml?
 
With 300 mg in 250 ml of water:
 10 ml =  12 mg gabapentin, (4% of total)
240 ml = 288 mg gabapentin, (96% of total)
 

i have reinstated and feel as bad as i did before i reinstated.  it's been at least a week,  what does this mean?  
this is when i get desperate and crazy and want to take benzos all day for 6 months to get off. 
i feel trapped. 
...
do i go back to a dose that makes me feel ok?

the up-dosing i did has not helped me at all. and since every little bit is a battleground, losing some of that ground is depressing. and i don't know what criteria to use in starting tapering again. since i feel so bad and am not stabilizing, how will i know when to taper?

chrona,

 

To answer your questions, would you tell us
- exactly what dose of gabapentin you are currently taking 6 times a day
and
- what times you're taking the doses?

[chrona]

scalawag,  

    i withdraw the 10 ml and discard it,  i drink the rest,  the 240 ml.   i wish i had not up-dosed,  it did not help at all.   the times i dose are all over the map since i work at home.  sometimes i don't sleep until 3 so i get up late,  sometime i nap a lot during the day.  

    thank you for noticing my post.

 

the reason i posted where i did was it was a conversation about reinstatement that i had been reading.  should i always post under my own thread?

[Shep]

Hi, Chrona.

 

I'm sorry you're still suffering so much. To answer your question, yes, your own Intro thread here is where post for tapering advice specific to your situation. It helps us to keep all of your information in one place. 

 

I just read over your thread and I think part of your problem may be in a basic lack of "structure" leading to erratic dosing and erratic sleeping patterns. This may be lending itself to an overall "chaos effect" making your symptoms worse.

 

It's to your advantage that you work from home, as you can control the climate, noise level, listen to music or nature sounds, and take breaks as needed. However, I'm finding that structure is really helpful, too, so working from home may be working against you in that regard. Keeping a regular set bedtime is really key to dealing with insomnia and other symptoms. 

 

You may find these links helpful:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Also, I have a separate Gmail account (connected to Google Calendar) set up so I can have very targeted emails sent to that email address reminding me what I need to do at specific times of the day. I continue to use it now even though I'm off drugs. It's important to remember to start winding down for the night early and doing whatever non-drug coping skills you can to help. If using email isn't right for you, perhaps using the calendar on a smart phone or other ways might work better. But just getting a general sense of "structure" may really help set the stage for an easier recovery. 

[scallywag]

the reason i posted where i did was it was a conversation about reinstatement that i had been reading.  should i always post under my own thread?

 

chrona: When you have a question about your situation, this is the best place for it because you're likely to get a response sooner. More people will see that you've posted. I know that I look at Introductions first for questions. Other moderators may do the same.

[chrona]

i have now reinstated all the way back to my original dose.  even that doesn't feel enough.  i guess i really screwed up my nervous system by going too fast.  from my reading on different threads about gabapentin,  i believe i must be having a harder time than others,  and probably due to my illness.  

shep, that is a brilliant system to have automatic emails sent to you but my brain is gone,  there is no way i can set this up by myself.  it sounds silly i know,  but apparently others who have been involved in this demon drug have also lost their brains. what you say about my schedule is v. insightful. 

 

i know that i am having more difficulty than others coming off lyrics or gabapentin.   it's absolutely clear to me.  the question is what to do about it. 

 

this withdrawal,  i don't know if it is the same as other's,  fires my nervous system over anything.  and unfortunately there are things in my life that are quite challenging.   it almost feels like my nervous system is on fire.  the slightest irritant makes me feel like i am burning inside. 

i take my walks in the forest. take mag. tryptophan,  melatonin, etc etc.  i know how to meditate though sometimes i just can't.  i know to redirect my thoughts. 

all that,  but when i don't get the dose i need or i am late,  my whole body goes nuts.  and it takes an hour and a half or two to calm down.

 

i have so appreciated the feedback from those who have taken the trouble to write.  

[chrona]

yes, the times i take it are all over the map.  plus i forget even though i have a sticky pad with a pencil right there, i forget to write it down.  that's how my brain is. 

[Shep]

 

i take my walks in the forest. take mag. tryptophan,  melatonin, etc etc.  i know how to meditate though sometimes i just can't.  i know to redirect my thoughts. 

all that,  but when i don't get the dose i need or i am late,  my whole body goes nuts.  and it takes an hour and a half or two to calm down.

 

 

 

Please write down all of your supplements and the dose you're taking. Many people can't handle supplements during withdrawal, so these very well be making you even sicker.  In fact, some supplements are quite dangerous during withdrawal. 

 

Once we know what you're taking, we can help you research them. 

[SquirrellyGirl]

 

i take my walks in the forest. take mag. tryptophan,  melatonin, etc etc.  i know how to meditate though sometimes i just can't.  i know to redirect my thoughts. 

all that,  but when i don't get the dose i need or i am late,  my whole body goes nuts.  and it takes an hour and a half or two to calm down.

 

i have so appreciated the feedback from those who have taken the trouble to write.  

 

I agree with Shep, the tryptophan in particular being potentially problematic.  You might try forgoing that one to see if things settle more.  Do you feel it has provided a definite improvement in any way?

 

SG

[chrona]

ok fine i will drop tryptophan but it made no difference at all when i started it two days ago.  mag.  and fish oil which i thought were highly recommended here.  melatonin i am not dropping.  i get little enough sleep as it is,  it does create a mild sleepiness.  that's it.  

since i started those AFTER i started the detox by about two months,  i hardly think they are making a dent but i will bow to superior wisdom.

[chrona]

so no mag and no fish oil...?????????

oh yeah,  vit c  should i drop that too?

[SquirrellyGirl]

Fish oil and magnesium ARE generally recommended, so unless you find them activating in some way, stay with those.  If you feel the melotonin is helping you then go ahead and keep it.  Tryptophan can complicate the issue and hinder healing because of the interactions between all the neurotransmitter systems.  Fiddle with serotonin and you affect the dopamine and other neurotransmitter levels.  If the serotonin system down-regulated,  you want it to heal by up-regulating and producing more on its own, but if you add an artificial source from outside, tryptophan, then conceivably that could interfere with up-regulation, like taking an SSRI.  St. John's wort, for instance, is considered to act like an SRI.  So, best to stay away from serotonergic supplements, which include SJW, Sam-e, 5-htp and tryptophan.

 

Some find B vitamins activating, so if anxiety and insomnia are problems, they should go just to see if things improve without them.

 

SG