Sheri755: Effexor XR Reinstatement Amount?

192 posts in this topic

I'm so sorry. I'm replying from my phone and rarely use the laptop anymore. The pics of the supplements didn't upload. I'm doing something wrong I know!


Here's Dr. Mercola's info on the Vit D spray.


Here's the Magnesium


And here's the Ox Bile.

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Hey Sheri - glad you are feeling well enough to post!


I thought - she's found a Vit D Spray - good!  Except the spray delivers 5000 IU.  That's what I take - but - that's a high starting dose.  You might get to 5000 IU per day, and be fine, but it would be better to start with 1000 IU or even 500 IU and gradually increase.  Especially with your sensitivities.


The Magnesium looks good, and that's the ox bile I take.  


You asked me some questions in PM, that I'd like to move here, but won't without your permission.


Keep breathing, and I hope you see the sun today!

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Dang, so sorry. I'm just now seeing that none of my original reply posted. Here it is:


Dearest Alto and Jan,


I was able to put some things in words and I can't thank you enough for helping me!


I'm afraid to read GiaK's thread right now but hopefully I can read it soon. Thank you so much for the link. I know that she really suffered for a very long time.


I typically take 65 mg Nature Throid around 4 am. (Just read that it can cause anxiety)

Wait an hour to take 1.0 mg Klonopin, which calms me enough sometimes to go back to sleep, then the 5 beads Effexor 30 minutes later which seems to restart the anxiety. Vyvanse 7.5 mg after another 30 minutes.

I wait 45 minutes to take one of three Curamin, then one of two fish oil.


My breakfast is quiona during the week with lots of grass fed butter, blueberries and kiwi.


I drink 1/4 c homemade bone broth around 1 pm. This is the time of day that my heart rate is up (102 now) and mouth is extra dry. Maybe the Vyvanse is peaking?


I've started drinking smoothies for lunch around 3 pm with half cucumber, zucchini, banana, romaine lettuce, apple, carrot, celery, avocado and 1/2 scoop NOW protein powder. Hubby makes up the packets and freezes them for me.


I have the bone broth powder that Shep uses but haven't used it yet.

Is it okay to take it along with the protein powder in the smoothies or would that be too much of the amino acids?


My concern is that I'm not metabolizing fats since I don't have a gall bladder. The naturopath told me that I'm supposed to take NutriCology Ox Bile supplements 125 mg. with each meal once the gall bladder is removed. She even said to take one with my fish oil. Should I start taking this again? They are in capsule form and can be opened if necessary.


I have Dr. Mercola's Vit D3 spray and can start low, maybe lick a little spray off of a spoon.



Hubby makes wild caught salmon 3-4 times a week with two veggies. Other nights we have free range chicken.


We sometimes snack on organic air popped popcorn with lots of butter and Himalayan salt at night or cashew butter.


I'm dairy free except for butter and I do eat local free range eggs. Also grain and sugar free.


Magnesium- I took a Magnesium Chloride bath today. 1 1/4 cups for 20 minutes. I think it took the edge off just a little bit.


I have Pure Micronutrients Magnesium that you really like. 100 mg per capsule. Should I use 1/2 capsule in 8 oz of water or would one be okay?


I know it's not good to start more than one supplement at a time.


Which one of these do you think I need the start with and how much, oh and the bone broth question.


I'm so grateful for all of your help! ❤️

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Hey Sheri!


Your diet looks excellent.  Fresh, wholesome, varied.


I think it's fine to use bone broth and pea protein - just not in the same meal.  Think of each one as "just right for one meal," and don't put them together.


If you do not have a gallbladder, then the ox bile is probably just what you need to process fats. 


The turmeric is best taken with food.  Think like an Indian Chef with their curries - a nice, fatty curry with ghee and coconut milk is the best medium for absorption of turmeric.  I take mine with fish oil AND food, to ensure bioavailability.  This is true whether the brand says it's "super bioavailable' or not.  Fat is needed to absorb turmeric.


I'm glad the bath helped!  I think that's what happened before - it felt so good you were doing it every day, sometimes more than once a day (note: I just checked the Epsom salts thread, where you put 4 cups of Mag Chloride in a 1 hour bath!  Yes, that's too much).  Keep it at around 3x a week if you can, or a foot soak for "off days" - my red bucket for mag soaks - it's a cheap $6 bucket from a Home Depot type store:



As for sipping magnesium - start with 1/2 capsule in a glass of water.  Keep it in the fridge, and when you start to rev up, take a few mindful sips (no gulping!).  Build up to 1 capsule in a glass of water.


I think it's okay to start magnesium and the ox bile at the same time, since we need to get you digesting.  You've been on the mag before, and you're going to taper it in gradually, right?  And the ox bile may be an essential for your digestion.  (some folks also swear by Betaine HCl, but that's a note for future reference, in case you need further digestive support)


I just read a great article on Mag Chloride baths for digestion, from my Mag Chloride supplier (Blants Wellbeing Australia).  I'll quote it here in full:


Digestion & Magnesium Chloride 


Our previous article discussed the role of Electrolytes & Magnesium Chloride. 
In addition to Chlorides’ function as an electrolyte, chloride combines with hydrogen in the stomach to make hydrochloric acid (HCL), a major component of gastric acid. Gastric acid is an essential component of the digestion process and appears to diminish with age, poor health or poor diet. It is rarely checked by practitioners and often left undiagnosed.
Low levels of gastric acid production may result in poorly broken down and absorbed food with resulting poor nutrient absorption; gut irritations, malabsorption of vitamins & minerals, and an increased susceptibility to bacteria, viruses, and yeasts passing through a damaged gut wall.
To break down the food we eat the stomach requires acid, delivered to the stomach as gastric acid produced by cells in the lining of the stomach, which are coupled in feedback systems to increase acid production when needed. In an optimum environment that gastric acid has a very low pH of 1.5 - 3.5. The acidity is maintained by the proton pump H+/K+ ATPase.
Gastric acid works in sync with digestive enzymes, which are another essential component of digestion. It is vital to the digestion of proteins acting as a catalyst – like a ‘go before’ - as it activates digestive enzymes which break the long chain bonds linking amino acids, a process known as proteolysis. Bottom line is we need the acid to be produced in the stomach for effective digestion.

The abundant chloride found in Magnesium Chloride is sufficient to increase production of stomach HCL. Regular soaking in a Magnesium Chloride bath
or applying Magnesium Oil
over the body ensures chloride absorption. This could be done a couple of times a week as maintenance Chloride and Magnesium top-up. You can buy either of these products from BLANTs Shop Online & have it delivered.

HCL can also be increased by taking Apple Cider Vinegar directly before a meal or drinking squeezed lemon and water prior to a meal.


I'll probably copy that over to the mag thread, too!  

I'll come back to address the Vyvanse / compounding questions you asked in PM.

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Sheri, you wrote in PM:


While I'm thinking about it... the compounding pharmacy will only make the Vyvanse in whole or half increments. 

What dosage should I stop at? I'm at 7.5 now. 

**** is being so sweet. It's over $200 out of pocket for 14 capsules!! Never dreamed it would be that much when we started Makes me feel so guilty but can't help it now.


Wow, you are paying out the nose for that!


Then you clarified:

 I apologize that I was unclear. They make up the doses in whole or half numbers such as 7.0, 6.5, 6.0, etc but not a dosage of, say, 6.75.


Okay, that's better.  With the way you are reacting right now, it's hard to say what your drop off point should be.


You were taking Vyvanse to compensate for all the brakes you were taking.  When you're feeling well enough, can you put your current dose in your signature?  I've got some mods looking in.


How long have you been holding at 7.5?

What decrements have you been using?  10% per month?


Do you feel better or worse since starting the Vyvanse taper?


So here's a sample schedule - if your tapers are going well, use the 1st column, if it's harder use the 2nd.  You can also switch between the 2 columns - if it gets hard, use a more conservative drop.  And as always, if your taper causes symptoms - hold!


Current:          7.5                                   7.5

Month 1          6.5   (15%)                      7.0   (7%)

Month 2          5.5   (16%)                      6.5   (8%)

Month 3          4.5   (19%)                      6.0   (8%)

Month 4          4.0   (12%)                      5.5   (9%)

Month 5          3.5   (12.5%)                   5.0   (9%)

Month 6          3.0   (16%)                      4.5   (9%)

Month 7          2.5   (17%)                      4.0   (12%)  AFTER THIS POINT THIS SHOULD GO TO LIQUID TAPER



What I get here is that - you can take it safe and easy and get down to 4.0 mg in 0.5 mg increments.


If you taper in larger increments, you can get down to 2.0 mg.


After that, the drops are too big.  I have been seeing information by people on the web who adjust their Vyvanse doses using a water solution - so it is liquid taper friendly.  It keeps for a few days in the fridge.  If we were doing a normal 10% liquid taper from today, you would be at 3.58 mg in Month 7, and 3.23 mg in Month 8.  So it's not too far off.


How about this - follow this schedule for now, and see how it goes?  It's possible for you to start with column 1, and move over to column 2 as your doses get lower, or you can continue with column 1 with longer holds.  I'd love to get you off of this stimulant quickly - but - I don't want to throw you into a panic, either.  Ideally, you should start to feel better as this drug goes away.


Also - have you considered shopping around for a different compounding pharmacist?  This guy sounds expensive!  I'm here in Australia, the land of the expensive, and a month's supply of anything is about $100.  Of course, I've not priced Vyvanse, which may be a tricky animal to work with.  I'd love to sit down with my compounding pharmacist - if I could afford to pay him for his time - and go over all of the tapering situations we come up with here, just to see what he says!


I hope this helps, if you have any questions, just let me know.


Feel better soon, and I hope you see the sun today!

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PS - in answer to your question:  when to drop off?


That depends on how you are going, as you go through the taper.  Maybe you will feel confident to drop off at 2 mg.  Maybe you want to get it down to 1.  Maybe you will feel so swimmingly well that you will stop it at 4, and never need the liquid taper?  But it depends more on how you feel, and how your taper goes, than it is a magic dropping off point.


I hope that helps.   Here's a thread that discusses this issue:

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Hi Jan:


I've been decreasing Vyvanse by 10% every two weeks. I'm not able to find the recommendedation now in my thread but hubby is saying this was his understanding.


Also, the Vyvanse taper link shows 10% every two weeks. I did, in the beginning, taper by 15% and I believe you recommended that I hold for a month for things to settle, then stay with the 10% two week taper.


My cortisol spikes seem a little better and my heart rate is not as high as it was. So improvement there. My sleep is also better, at least 6 hours straight instead of 5 hours of broken sleep. I am still obsessing and very fearful, though.


Maybe hubby can find in my thread the recommendedation of 10% taper every two weeks. I don't know what to do now. Starting to worry and obsess. Better try to calm down.


I'm so sorry, Jan. My thinking is so unclear. Hubby just now said that column one is essentially what we are doing by tapering 10% every two weeks instead of the higher amounts each month. Is this okay?


Thank you!!! ❤️

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Hey Sheri - 

I was looking at my picture with the red bucket - if you look into the water, you can see that my left foot is taped for "thyroid tendonitis" (I've talked to more people with this in the past week!)


Anyhow, I'm going to recommend that you move your taper to 4 weeks, because your symptoms ramp up so easily.


If you go well with 4 weeks, after 3 tapers, then maybe you can shorten it to 3?


I'm thinking (and the mods looking over my shoulder, too) that maybe it's the 2 week schedule that threw you into a panic.


It takes about 3 weeks to "reregulate" neurotransmitters.  You know how when you go to a doctor for an antidepressant, and he says, it may be uncomfortable at first, but wait 3 weeks and you should feel better then?  There's something to that (though doctors - and scientists - don't really know why).  The best guess is that this is neuron growth or pruning time, or time to homeostasis.  


Also - here: I list your changes - as I knew them, and advise you to wait 3 months from each of those changes for them to rattle out.  That would be about now - except - you've had some changes since then?


I think I addressed the 15% every 2 weeks in that post, too, as too much, too fast.  (but I didn't say:  10% per month, either!)


Here's what I think happened - I (and mods) cannot find a 2 week reference, either.  But Vyvanse is different from antidepressants - so maybe somehow one of us (you, me, your husband) got it in mind that we could go faster on Vyvanse, especially since you were suffering such anxiety and symptoms from it.


Well, Let Go, Let G-d, we've got this now.


Let's go to 10% every 4 weeks for awhile, and see if that goes more smoothly for you.  I'm greatly hoping that moving from a 2 week to a 4 week schedule might be the key to a smoother taper.  You are still likely to "react" to the dose, because you've been doing that for awhile now, but as we get your doses down, it should be less and less.


Prepare to hold, anytime it gets weird.  It sounds like even one magnesium bath is helping to settle you, so look forward to your magnesium time.  Tell you what - I'll think of you while I'm taking my soak, and you think of me!  Not quite like the social bathing of Roman times, or a modern California Hot Tub (they say they can get filters for hot tubs now so that you can take magnesium hot tubs!  Sheer heaven!), but - in our magnesium communion, we might just heal a little better.


Better is good.  Write it on your mirror in lipstick:  It will get better!   <3

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Sheri and I have been talking about tendonitis in private, and - as I do - I went off and made a whole big post about it, so with her permission, I am sharing it here:


She asked:

My doctor told me Tuesday that Hashimoto's and tendinitis have nothing to do with each other. I mentioned that my arches had started burning. He said to buy some Dr. Scholl's arch support orthotics for my shoes that I wear in the house because I could develop fachitis (sp). I just couldn't believe it! Something else to worry about. Dang!! He also increased the Nature Throid to 81 mg from 65. 


I answered:


I find that any doctor trained within the past 30-40 years has  never been trained in the connection between the thyroid, collagen, and the achilles tendon in particular (it took my PhD occupational therapist to help me make the connection, because she works with tendons and joints all the time).  Woltman, the doctor who initiated the "delayed Achilles test" for hypothyroid - died in 1964.  In 1975, the blood tests were invented, and this "old way" of doing things was forgotten and no longer taught.

Why run a manual test, when you can get numbers on a blood chart?


And I'm of the John Bergman school of thought that cradling your feet in orthotics makes them weaker, not stronger.  I wore orthotics all through childhood - to mold my feet (they are now quite straight, but still flat).  Now I'm a big fan of barefoot as much as possible.  Bergman says to walk in dirt, grass, or sand (sand is the best!)  But we don't have any grass, so I use a wobble board (and have hubby on it now, too, for Plantar fascitis)


John Bergman has a great talk on feet on youtube.  He talks about strengthening the arch, the calf, and stretching the hamstring and lower back.


Get yourself a wobble board.  Stand on it.  Just stand on it.  It will be hard at first. 




When you get good at that, rock back and forward - touch the front of the wobble board to the floor, then the back.   Next, practice surfing, going from side to side - it will require flexing your knees and hips.  Next practice circles, making the front of the board touch, then rotating the touching part all the way around clockwise, then counter clockwise.  I do these in sets of 10. 

Then, when you're really good - stand with one foot in the middle of the board.  Lift the other knee up.  Arms can stretch to the sides for balance.  How many breaths can you take while holding the position?


Legs-up-the-wall is good for stretching the lower back.   You don't have to stay static.  Do a butterfly pose up on the wall.  Bend your knees, straighten them.  Widen your legs, bring them back together.  The more your move in your legs-up-the-wall, the more you massage your lower back.


Yoga for strengthening the feet:  Tadasana (Mountain pose) - just standing.  But standing with your spine lifted, your head balanced over your spine, your kneecaps lifted by your thighs, which gently rotate to spread your sit-bones.  Your arches lifted.  You can even lift your toes up to strengthen the arches.  Put the toes down one at a time, starting with the little toe.


Or - interlace your toes!



You may have to do it with your hand to toes first - fingers between each toes in a hand/toe shake.  Then, use your fingers to interlace both sets of toes, with the goal being the above pose.  Don't forget to try left on top, then right on top!  People with really strong, flexible feet can do this without any fingers at all! 


Doctors!  Can't live with them, can't shoot them!



Then you talk about:

I've had these insoles for a couple of years but haven't used them. Barefoot science. Maybe these would be good also for both of us!


It looks really good, and adaptable to train your feet to be stronger.  I heard yesterday another option, which is to wear the orthotics SOME of the time, to remind your feet how support feels, and then work your feet the rest of the time.


I answered (thinking of my hubby):

I wonder if Barefoot Science could help hubby's plantar fascitis.


I gave him yoga and wobble board exercises, too (that's why I learned them, for him!)


But unless he does them....


He has to tape his feet up, it hurts so much.  


I liked the videos on the site - until they tried to sell me that their system was different.  Somehow I couldn't quite grasp that.  Maybe I'd need to talk to a practitioner of this (which they probably don't have in Australia, the back end of the world!)


Hope you see the sun today!  I did, and a rainbow too!  It was splendid!


Then you ask:


I was just reading a thread where you talked about Tai Chi being an easy form of exercise. Do you happen to have a link for one that would be easy on my tendinitis? I've got to move my body somehow. 

and I responded (just today!):


Chi Gung - 


I like this guy:



Because I'm in Australia, I cannot afford to pay full price for books / DVD's.  Well, I can - but - it's so hard to deal with it....


So I got what I could get used - I have his BOOK "7 minutes of magic" but not the DVD.  Freespirit says that's the best DVD - and I agree.  What is your excuse for not doing 7 minutes?  And if there's a 7 minute section which is too painful - skip it and try it again later!


Chi gung / tai chi is - a godsend!  I do a little 5 minute routine daily, and it wakes up my joints and helps me with pain, helps build strength in the joints.


I also have DVD's of Lee Holdens"  Qi workout AM/PM (that's more fitness based 2x30 min workouts), Qi Gong for Seniors (one long routine, but you can break it up - some of the stuff is a little challenging), and Qi Gong for Beginners (gentle basics)


For our Aussie readers, I practice a form developed by Dr. Paul Lam of Sydney.  His DVD's are available too,  I have the Tai Chi for Arthitis one, which includes 12 lessons to build the form, and a series of easy Chi Gong exercises.  When I took the class, there were people on walkers and in wheelchairs - it is adapted to every need.  I'm sure you can get them in the USA, but they are more readily available here.


So - Lee Holden for the USA (I see on one of the DVD covers that he is - or was - on PBS - so there might be free classes with him available on PBS?), and Dr. Paul Lam for Australians!



I hope you see the sun today!

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Here's an example of a balance board / wobble board.


Get the round one, because you're not practicing to be a skater or snowboarder.  You want to strengthen your ankles / tendons in 360 degrees.

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Hi Jan!


Thank you!! Such great information, as always!! I also learned a lot from the video and am doing the exercises daily.


Something new has come up. I did a little research to find out that it could be related to withdrawal


or Hashimoto's.


Seems like all of my teeth are very sensitive and some of the gum area is now red and painful. I use a very soft toothbrush and coconut oil. I dread brushing and flossing because of the pain. There's also a film on my teeth. Mouth burning during the day. This is all new. I feel like it's nerve related but I don't know. My mouth and tongue are very dry at night and when lying down during the day. My tongue actually sticks to the roof of my mouth. There's no telling what all my dentist would do and this is really scaring me.


Have you ever heard of anything like this? I don't want to have a lot of dental work done or even lose my teeth as some have. I just can't believe it...

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Hi Sheri - 


I've heard all kinds of things caused by withdrawal, as it affects so many systems!  I'm not versed in this one, but I'm not surprised, either!


I do know that when I was most sick - I had awful dental hygiene (and sometimes still struggle - Floss! they say, Floss!).  I even developed a theory that the "mentally ill" were dying 20-30 years younger because I reckon we didn't brush our teeth, and that contributed to cardiovascular disease.  Then I read Whitaker's "Anatomy," and realized we didn't have a chance on the drugs.  Poor dental hygiene couldn't help.


Have you heard of oil pulling?  


First thing in the morning, put a teaspoon of coconut oil in your mouth and hold it there for 7-15 minutes.  Then - spit it into a paper towel and throw it away.  You can also use sesame (hot) or sunflower (nope, I wouldn't do that one).  Do not spit it out in the garden, because it is a detox protocol, and you don't want to feed the critters your toxins. 


I hope you see the sun today!

I reckon if you did it for a month, then started adding back gentle brushing, the oil pulling might strengthen your gums and make the brushing a little easier?


I came here today because I was reading about hypothyroid and tendonitis & muscle pain, and it was a good article so I just wanted to share:

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