Rico: Zyprexa tapering

[Bokart]

Maybe the 1,875 mg is the right dose if you've been having paradoxical reaction to olanzapine. I've only recently started following your progress so I don't know how you've been before.

 

Maybe it's best for you to stay at 1,875 mg and carefully monitor your symptoms. If they get better, maybe then we can consider updosing more. If your symptoms get worse, then we know you shouldn't updose more. If symptoms don't change, then maybe you need time, and maybe updosing more can be an option. The last option I'm the least sure of what it means though.

 

All the best,

Bokart

[Rico]

Thanks Bokart,

 

I took the morning Epilim 400 and Lithium 450 and had a lay down.

 

It slowed me down a bit but my mind is still out of control. The anxiety is really high and my mind is racing. I can feel the left side of my face and arm burning from the anxiety.

 

I am really stressed out.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Rico

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

Today was better than the day before, and tonight I increased the zyprexa to 2.5 with the logic that things will get better and I can taper once I stabilise again.

 

I tried to go to sleep but couldn't. I am not anxious and my mind isn't racing, but when I close my eyes I can physically feel there's a lot of activity in my frontal lobe, like there's something inside blinking really fast.

 

Also, when taking the 2.5mg tonight, I didn't feel the same pains that I had last night on the 1.875. The 1.875 is a capsule from a compounding pharmacy, which had me thinking maybe I am having a reaction to the fillers. But then again, I was taking the same capsules before and didn't have the same reactions.

 

Wishing everyone a merry christmas and safe holidays.

 

Rico

[Shep]

Hi all,

 

Today was better than the day before, and tonight I increased the zyprexa to 2.5 with the logic that things will get better and I can taper once I stabilise again.

 

 

 

 

Please read this post from back on October when you were previously on 2.5 mg Zyprexa:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12832-rico-zyprexa-tapering/?p=252610

 

I don't see the logic in thinking you will get better by upping your dose. 

 

I get the vibe that you are looking for a "magical" dose that will take away your symptoms, but please re-read your entire thread, as you've been all over the place with moving your drugs around, changing doses, and adding other drugs and supplements. 

 

Speaking from my own experience with massive polydrug use, I would settle into the mindset that this is going to be a difficult journey, but one that is possible with a lot of non-drug coping skills, a reasonable taper, and then get involved in some sort of project to distract your very analytical mind. At this point, your analytical mind is getting in your way. Please give it something else to do. 

 

I'm going to emphasize this "project" concept because I've seen it work for a lot of people when I was on a benzo withdrawal forum. The folks who got into a project did so much better. They would do photography, artwork, write a memoir, do a massive letter-writing campaigns about drug withdrawal with their legislatures, get into healthy cooking and learn new recipes. I found writing and music to work remarkably for my own project. I'm still spending many hours a week going through music videos and learning new pieces on my keyboard and guitar. Even though I'm emotionally blunted, I find it a very nice distraction and I have a feeling of accomplishment. So these are ideas to consider. Do you have any interests or hobbies that you could get into? 

 

Right now you are fixated on finding that "magical" dose more than you are engaged with getting off your drugs, and I do find that troubling, as you are now almost right back where you were with your drugs from nearly two months ago. 

 

In this post about your ability to self manage, it mentions the ability to "tolerate discomfort and uncertainty". Also, this post on Does how I quit affect whether or how I get withdrawal symptoms? mentions how alternating doses can cause problems, and that's what you're doing. Your CNS hasn't had time to catch up with what you're doing to it. 

 

1.  At this point, if you don't know if you're dealing with a paradoxical condition and want to treat this as a straight-forward taper, please stay on the same dose, with the same timing, for a few weeks / months until you're in a better position to taper. 

 

2.  However, if you feel there's a paradoxical element in play, do not up your dose. This is counter-intuitive and will make you feel worse.  If it is paradoxical, you need to get off the drug with a reasonable taper that may be accelerated, but do expect an uptick in withdrawal symptoms if this is what you choose.

 

During this time, regardless of what you choose, please come up with some ways of distracting, get into a project that interests you, spend some time in nature if you can, and work on your non-drug coping skills:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

After 18 years of polydrug use, it's unlikely you'll get off these drugs symptom free. Your CNS has been harmed. And you've spent 18 years without having to worry about how to self-soothe so you can handle even regular day-to-day emotions, much less the severe problems of withdrawal. So you do have a lot of emotional catch-up work to do. 

 

By doing a slow and consistent taper, by learning new skills to handle the physical and emotional pain of withdrawal, you can get off these drugs and heal. And trust me, your self-confidence is going to soar as this happens, but it does take a lot of work on your part. We cannot do it for you. 

 

And then you'll have decades of drug-free living and many meaningful years in your future. 

[Bokart]

Yes, I too have read the first 3 pages of your thread Rico, and indeed you haven't been well, anxiety and depression have always been there. What's different now? Well, you didn't seem to mention that much racing thoughts, though you did mention them, but not in every post. Also, it seems you were more leaning to depression than anxiety, or am I wrong?
 
(I too had morning depression August 2015 - May 2016. Suicidal thoughts, but not very strong. They have since then lifted. By the way I too was better in the evening. And I too had intrusive thoughts, especially when I closed my eyes -not the same as regular thoughts when meditating, but stronger and they felt more intrusive)
 
Well it's always hard for an outsider to analyze, the best would be that you yourself look at your posts and try to remember how your symptoms were.

Just as a sidenote, my nurse told me one time that she was surprised I did not have depression. She said people usually do after psychosis and after starting olanzapine. I wonder if depression is more caused by olanzapine than psychosis...
 
Also, to quote Altostrata's post in your thread in the start of November:

 

 

Rico, you seem to change when you take your drugs and their dosages quite frequently.

 

Every time you do this, your system has to adapt to it. This can take a minimum of 4 days to many weeks.

 

We're not miracle workers. If you choose to improvise and then feel worse, we're not going to be able to tell you what's going on.

 

We keep on telling you to keep dosing steady so you can get a better idea of what does what. You don't seem to want to do this.

 

I think you have the general idea of tapering, though you don't like it. All of this is up to you, really. We can't wave our magic wands and get you off the drugs. You're going to have to figure this out yourself.

 

If you want to take your drugs on yet another schedule, that's your decision. If you want to use the liquid to reduce Zyprexa, that's your decision. You've introduced so many variables, we cannot predict what will happen or how that taper will go.

 

 

I would have also waited at least 2 weeks before updosing olanzapine more.

 

All the best,

Bokart

[Bokart]

Hey Rico, how have you been today?

[Shep]

Rico, how are you doing? Have you been able to stabilize on the Zyprexa?

 

I know this is a difficult journey, but I'm hoping you're able to find some distractions to occupy your time so you can handle the types of long holds that are really necessary in order to be able to come off these drugs. 

 

Holding at one stable dose is the hardest part during this. 

 

Wishing you much healing in the new year. 

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

I am back!

 

Things got really bad just after my last post. As Shep predicted, going up to 2.5mg did make matters worse. My anxiety reached a level I have never experienced before, to the point of feeling hear rushing up from my lower body to my head. I was going to call an ambulance but was too scared of ending up in the public hospital. I organised an admission to a very nice private hospital and was lucky to be appointed a psychiatrist who listened.

 

He stopped the zyprexa straightaway (I had been taking 2.5 for a couple of days up until then) and put me on Valium to help me settle down etc. I did improve and over the following 2 weeks the Valium was tapered from 10mg to 0mg. I was discharged and went home two nights after sleeping without the Valium. The sleep wasn't good though.

 

When I got home, things took a turn for the worst. I started having problems sleeping and the anxiety / depression was back. I spoke to the dr and he told me to try and ride it out - because he understood that it was zyprexa withdrawal. I tried to ride irbid out, but couldn't. Even takin 10mg Valium out of desperation didn't help much.

 

I was readmitres to hospital (2 weeks ago) and I was a complete mess emotionally. I couldn't stop crying. The doctor mentioned a few medications that he could use, but respected my wishes to not take anymore antipsychotics. In the end, we agreed to try lorazepam (Ativan) in the short term.

 

He gave me 2mg straightaway which settled me down a lot and over the following two weeks he tapered it down to zero. He also reduced the Epilim by 400 (200mg per week). I'll update my signature when I get to my computer.

 

I was discharged 2 days ago and the last dose of Ativan was 6 days ago. My sleep has gone downhill since the Ativan was ceased. I was happy to leave the hospital though because the beds were not comfortable.

 

I thought I would be ok going home and sleeping on my own bed, but unfortunately, I am not well again. The anxiety is under control, but I have severe insomnia. I am extremely exhausted but cannot sleep. I used a YouTube meditation to help but managed to just be in a semiconscious state for 1 hour.

 

I am not sure which drug is causing the insomnia - zyprexa? Epilim reduction or the benzos?

 

I am doing my best to hold it together and would like to heal and eventually sleep again. I don't want to resolve this through another 2 week benzo holiday or a new antipsychotic. I did try a sleeping aid from the chemist but it made me sick.

 

I am finding that the vitamins I am taking are helping. I am not 100% sure but it's my gut feeling. I also take fish oil and NAC. N-acysteline.

 

So I am back here again to seek your support as I am definitely in withdrawal. I am extremely, extremely fatigued and also having difficulty breathing.

 

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help with the sleep.

 

Rico

[nz11]

Hi Rico was often thinking of you and wondering how you were doing.

No wonder you couldnt do an update you were in hospital.

Sorry the updose provided no relief.

Glad you now have some finality on the zyprexa dilemma.

That was great you had a doctor who acknowledged wdl. Im surprised that he has reduced your epilim by so much on top of taking you off the zyprexa.

Do you think you can now decide on purpose to hold on current drug levels and endure and survive the wdl without going back to the doctors. Im sure it will get better in time.

Im glad you are home without being given heaps of chemical take-aways by the hospital although you may now have benzo exposure  to add to the zyprexa wdl and even some epilim wdl.

 

I'm no help on sleep issues as i have my own but one thing is for sure i wont be swallowing anything for it.

So glad you are now home and in a safe place.

Wishing you strength for the journey ahead.

Regards

nz11

[Hopefull]

Hi Rico,

 

Sorry to hear about the situation you are currently in.

Please don't loose hope.

You can get through this.

Have you tried Epson salt baths to help you sleep?

Try walking every night, have a bath, and try drinking camomile tea before bed.

If you are feeling anxious, put a drop of lavender oil on a cotton ball and place it under your pillow.

You could also try Rooibos tea, it is relaxing and can help you sleep.

There is also Catnip tea, which is also helps with sleep.

If I was in your shoes I would try diluted versions of the teas mentioned, just to make sure you don't get an adverse reaction.

Camomile tea helps me when I feel anxious.

Maybe you could drink a cup of hot milk before bedtime.

I understand how difficult and distressing is insomnia. I have gone through it too at some point of WDS.

Listen to Nature sounds on You Tube, to relax your mind, before going to sleep.

There is also Myo-Inositol powder that could help you sleep.

Research before you try it. There is also a thread on Myo-Inositol here on SA.

Please read before trying. I am not sure if inositol interacts with your current medication. Please research before trying it.

It might not be suitable for you.

But at least you will know that it is available, incase you decide to try it.

Best wishes to you, Hopefull.

[Rico]

Thanks Hopefull.

 

I had bath with Epsom Salts and it was very relaxing. I also had chamomile tea.

 

Unfortunately, it was very difficult for my brain to switch off. I eventually fell asleep but woke up a few later feeling very sick. My stomach was in pain, my head was groggy and my eyes were sore.

 

I have tried to go back to sleep but with no success. I am quite agitated. I feel like my brain is falling apart completely.

 

I am at the end of my rope. I just want to sleep.

[Rico]

I spoke to my psychiatrist and told him what's going on and he seemed quite frustrated. There are no meds that he can give me because I have been on so much.

 

I feel very anxious and alone right now. I am so upset that I am this dysfunctional.

[Shep]

Hi, Rico.

 

I'm sorry you've been through so much over the past few weeks. 

 

I'm trying to get a clear picture of your drugs for this time period:

 

First hospitalization (beginning of January):

 

Zyprexa - 2.5 mg, taken off cold turkey in hospital 

 

Valium - 10 mg, tapered down to 0 in two weeks

 

Epilim - 900 mg

 

 

Second hospitalization: 

 

Ativan - 2 mg, tapered down to 0 in two weeks

 

Epilim - reduced from 900 mg to 500 mg (reduced 200 mg per week)

 

Please verify if this is correct. Also, please verify what that the only drug you are currently taking is Epilim at 500 mg. 

 

Edit - I just realized that you have Lithium mentioned in your signature at 900 mg, but you didn't mention it in your update. Are you still taking that drug? 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

Sorry I haven't got around to the computer yet to update my signature.

 

The above is correct but I am also taking 1250mg (the doctor increased the dose to get a higher level of lithium 0.8).

 

My main problem now is insomnia and anxiety. I close my eyes and just cannot sleep. There are no racing thoughts or anything...I just can't sleep. I am trying not to freak out and end up in hospital and I don't want to take any more benzos. My GP today told me to go for a walk before dinner. I tried, but didn't make it very far because I was exhausted.

 

I am extremely tired and exhausted and my eyes are sore. This is incredibly tough.

[Shep]

Thanks for the update, Rico.

 

Yes, please do update your signature with your new information. This can help prevent us from making mistakes when we are discussing your taper. 

 

Your previous post was reported, so the other mods will most likely weigh in later. 

 

For now, try to make yourself as comfortable as possible. Your CNS has been through a lot and since there is no quick fix to this, try to distract and find ways of calming during the insomnia. 

 

[Shep]

Rico, one other question - when did your Lithium dose change, was it the first or second hospital stay? 

 

If you can, please add in dates so we have a clearer picture of your drug changes. 

[Rico]

Hi Shep,

 

The lithium dose changed in the second admission. I will update my signature with dates as soon as I am able to.

 

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Rico

[Rico]

I feel like i am dying...the insomnia and anxiety are too much for me again. Everytime I close my eyes I get distressed.

[ChessieCat]

"My GP today told me to go for a walk before dinner. I tried, but didn't make it very far because I was exhausted."

 

Hi Rico,

 

I've just noticed that you live in Sydney.  I do too and we have been experiencing an extended period of very high temperatures this summer.  Over the last week the humidity has been extreme and I have been feeling totally wiped out, even when not doing anything physical.  I started taking gastrolyte over the last week to ensure that I wasn't low in electrolytes.

[Altostrata]

Hi, Rico. I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

I'm sure you recall that when your nervous system is upset, various psychiatric drugs can make it worse, or at least not help at all. This is why we so often recommend non-drug ways to manage anxiety, such as meditation, "changing the channel," and patience.

 

It sounds like your doctors have tried every drug they can, and nothing is helping. This is because your nervous system needs to settle down on its own.

 

This is only an online support group. We can't prescribe drugs, we don't know what drugs might help. Many people have been where you are, seeing no solution in medicine, and come out the other side by hanging in and taking care of themselves minute by minute, without drugs.

 

I am sorry we don't have any other solutions for you. 

[Rico]

Thank you Alto for your reply. I am going to do my best. The last several days have been hell and I am trying not to resort to benzo's. My family doesn't understand and keep pressuring me to take "medication". It's been very stressful to try and explain to them that I can't take a benzo in the long term and that the withdrawals are hell. Unfortunately, they don't see what I am going through as withdrawal either as they believe it's just my "illness".

[Rico]

Hi, just providing an update.

 

I didn't get any sleep at all on Monday night and the anxiety and stress just kept getting higher and higher.

 

By Tuesday, I was stressed that I could barely close my eyes to relax, it was absolutely awful.

 

I called my doctor (the one who had been treating me in the hospital) and he said to take Ativan again. He told me to take 1mg straightaway and then 2mg at night.

 

After taking the first dose in the afternoon, I cried uncontrollably for about 30 mins. When I took the 2mg at night alongside my other meds, I slept for  4 hours and woke up awful.

 

I was distressed again most of Wednesday and I check-in to a private hospital near my house, in hope of someone understanding what I was going through and to be in a safe place where I can get off the Ativan. My current condition at home is putting a lot of strain on my mum, whom I live with.

 

At the hospital, my anxiety was quite bad (I was barely able to breathe). I took the meds at night as well as 2mg of Ativan and woke up after 4 hours sleep feeling like i was losing my ming. I asked for another 2mg of Ativan.

 

I saw the doctor later in the day who spent 5-10 minutes with me and concluded that I needed to be on an antidepressant, Lygactl, and regular valium so that I can attend group. He did not want to listen at all to me regarding withdrawals, and when I explained to him that I am probably suffering from zyprexa withdrawal since December last year, he said that it should only be a two week thing.

 

I discharged shortly after and managed to make an appointment with my psych at 12:30  the next day.

 

Later that night, I took my meds and 2mg of Atian and woke up this morning extremely agitated with akathisia.

 

I have no idea what it going on. I don't want to take this Ativan crap anymore and I want to get well.

 

I am losing hope. I am so depressed right now. I have been stuffed around so much. My brain is barely working.

 

I feel like I'll never recover.

 

I am seeing the psych today at 12:30 to discuss this. The truth is, I believe that when I got discharged that I started suffering withdrawals from the Ativan?

 

But what does one do when the anxiety and stress levels get so high again??

 

I am at the end of my rope.

[Rico]

Hi all,

 

I need some help please.

 

I saw my psych today and explained to him that since being discharged from hospital, I have had trouble sleeping and that this has gotten worse and worse resulting in more anxiety.

 

I told him that I believed the cause of all this was that the Ativan was stopped a few days before discharge and that I was now suffering withdrawals. He did not agree with this and he just kept saying that it was my anxiety and that I could not have developed a dependence on Ativan that quickly. I explained to him that I had nothing to be anxious about and that when I tried to go to sleep last Friday night, it was difficult and that I also felt physically sick after taking the normal meds. Again, he just said it was my anxiety. He refused to listen to anything I had to say regarding withdrawals.

 

I then asked him, so what do I do about sleep? I told him that I was mentally exhausted. he said that I could either keep taking the Ativan or try Latuda. I told him that I didn't want to take Ativan anymore because it was addictive. He then gave me a sample pack of Latuda. I asked the doctor if I can be admitted into hospital again because I am not coping at home, and he refused.

 

I went home quite upset, and very exhausted. I forced myself to go to the swimming pools with a friend later in the afternoon. I just sat in the spa trying to relax and at one point had a huge anxiety attack. It wasn't so much my breathing or chest tightening - but I became very confused all of a sudden and couldn't think or remember anything. I just keep breathing and breathing and it eventually passed.

 

Around dinner time I was quite sick. I was mentally exhausted and  mentally anxious at the same time. I don't know the name of the symptom - maybe it's mind racing or anxiety...but its that feeling where your brain just wont stop. I took my normal medications and didn't take any Ativan. I was under pressure from my parents to take the Latuda because they wanted me to listen to my doctor. I rested/slept for a couple of hours and woke up with the worst mental anxiety ever. It was as if my brain was on fire and spinning out of control (what is this called by the way). I was in a such a panic that I wanted to call an ambulance. It was the worst thing ever. I spoke to my mum and my girlfriend and I called the Mental Health line for advice. I was very stressed and anxious.

 

I lay on the couch and the feeling passed. I then thought maybe I'll try this Latuda stuff..so I took 20mg as the doctor had suggested. It didn't really do much, I think I slept for a couple of hours.

 

For the last 3 hours now, i have been trying to get some rest but I just can't. I really can't handle this insomnia/anxiety or whatever is going. I do believe that this is withdrawal from the Ativan and probably the Zyprexa that was stopped back in December....I don't know.

 

I am a total mess, sleep deprived and feel very alone in all this. I feel like no one understands. I am desperate for some relief. I just don't know what to do anymore. I tried watching TV to distract myself but I can't concentrate.

 

Every time I close my eyes all hell breaks loose. This is getting way too hard.

[Madeleine]

Rico:  You will recover.   Have faith that you will.  

[Bokart]

Good to see you back Rico, and I'm sorry for what you are going through. I remember well the anxiety I had when I could turkeyed olanzapine, and the sleeplessness...

 

Do you think you could try something other than another antipsychotic? Latuda is one... In my opinion -this is my suggestion only- you could try some sedative antihistamine. I think it's better than a benzodiazepine. The sedative effect of olanzapine is also based on the action on those receptors too, so if you find an antihistamine, you are actually reinstating the sedative effect of olanzapine without reinstating it's effect on serotonin receptors. I think you should avoid all serotonergic drugs for now... I think they were they cause for your anxiety. Lithium seems also to have some kind of effect on serotonin, but what it does is not known. Who knows what olanzapine + lithium does?

 

But then again, if you get 4 hours of sleep with your sleep med, maybe you could survive with that, using the sleep med maybe 2 times a week. It's hard, but in this way you could maybe avoid benzodiazepine dependence and still live through the olanzapine withdrawals.

 

Just a note, I'm kind of worried about your current medical regimen... Lithium and epilim both seem to have an effect on GABA-receptors, directly or indirectly. Adding a benzodiazepine might not be wise. The withdrawals could be worse than normal.

 

I'm not a medical professional though, so if I were you, I would discuss this with my doctor. Maybe talk about using an antihistamine as a sedative agent. Many medicines have mainly an effect on histamine receptors on low doses, and low doses only. With higher doses they begin to affect other receptors too... Maybe try one with a half-life of less than 8 hours, so troubles getting out of bed could be avoided.

 

You can also research the solutions yourself, try looking at wikipedia pages of different medicines which have a pharmacology section included. There you find different Disassociation Constant values. The lowest value means that the drug will have an effect on that receptor complex first (which means that effect will start immediately after >0 mg and reaches full occupancy the fastest the dose goes up). The second lowest means that after the effect on the first receptor complex (the one with the lowest value), it starts to have an effect on that receptor complex after certain threshold dose. I have yet to figure out what that threshold dose _is_ in case of a certain medicines (for example olanzapine I'm taking) and how the disassociation constant value plays into that. So, I can't help with a dose. Maybe google search like as " <compound name> sedative agent study receptor occupancy" or something along those lines could give you some studies that have graphs (or something comparable) of the histamine receptor occupance of certain drugs and help you decide what dose could be worth a try.

 

Best of success to you,

Bokart

[Rico]

Thanks Bokart.

 

I am in the thick of withdrawals at the moment and using every coping mechanism I have learnt to get through.

 

I am barely getting any sleep, and when I do, I wake up with intense anxiety and panic.

 

I have being calling lifeline to get through, because I don't want to dial emergency and end up in a public hospital.

 

I really want to get through this. Yesterday, I had 5 mins of natural sleep and for a brief period, I felt great.

 

My only concern is that trying to 'rough' this out may cause more damage to my brain. My tolerance for stress is absolutely zero right now. I am even finding that having 1 cigarette creates a lot of stress.

 

When I close my eyes, I can feel that my brain is all over the place. I don't even know what the thoughts are.

 

I don't know if I should continue like this or just give.

 

I am not using benzos or anything at the moment for sleep. I am keeping things simple, and trying to exercise and have epsom salt baths. I also found accupuncture provided temporary relief.

 

I feel like I am discovering this world from scratch. There are very brief moments where I feel a tiny bit of joy - like today when I felt the breeze coming through the window of my girlfriend's car.

 

I am determined to fight this but at the same time I am scared that I may actually be deteriorating instead. Then again, I have been through all the medications and I am suffering from serious long standing physical side effects as a result.

 

I feel like I am growing as a person and learning about my body. Today, for example, I learnt how to breathe and calm myself down. For the last 20 years of being drugged, i have never had to soothe myself or deal with emotions or deal wth anything.

 

I am extremely fragile at the moment and very mentally exhausted. When I think back at how i used to be, I start getting anxious because I think that maybe i will be disabled for life.

 

As you can see, my writing is not very structured either. I am really struggling.

 

Thank you to everyone on this forum for their support and encouragement.

[Flowers]

Hi Rico

 

I understand how bad you are feeling but in your post it sounds as though you are doing some great things to help you cope....the deep breathing, acupuncture, epsom baths.

 

It is difficult not to think that we will be like this forever but just take one day at a time and practice all your coping skills when it gets tough.

 

You are doing great.

 

Flowers xxx

[Rico]

One more thing...I feel like I am cognitively declining rapidly due to the lack of sleep.

 

I am lying down in bed and I can feel movements in my brain and my eyes - like I am blinking really fast but my eyes are closed. I massaged my eyelids and it helped.

 

If this insomnia continues won't I just end up going mad or just severely mentally disabled?

[scallywag]

Sometimes we have to settle for rest rather than sleep.  If you take time to lie still and close your eyes and focus on relaxing your breathing, you'll get some of the benefit of sleeping. Play a downloaded file or CD of white noise , wind in the forest or waves on the beach or babbling brooks, let yourself "fall into" that sound. If you feel like getting up when it's done, then get up.

[Rico]

Hi, thanks for the encouragement scallywag and Flowers.

 

I made it through last night but I ended up taking a couple of valiums (5mg).

 

After some light exercise last night and the Epsom salt bath, I felt quite relaxed. I took my medication (Epilim 500 and Lithium 1250).

 

I lay in bed with my body quite relaxed, however, as I closed my eyes, I could feel that my eyes or eye muscles (I am not sure) convulsing quite fast. I also felt my brain just doing weird things. I was listening to meditation music as well.

 

I have been quite sleep deprived and stressed for over a week now...so I am sure this is the reason why. Unfortunately though, I started to panic. At the moment, my whole system is on high alert. I am sensitive to sound, light and it doesn't take much at the moment to get startled.

 

I think too much, and always have - I have always being "in my head". The panic increased and I called Lifeline and I could barely explain what was happening. I actually wanted to call an ambulance, but that the thought of that makes me very anxious too as i know that I will end up in a public psych ward forcibly injected and traumatised again.

 

Instead, I thought I would take a valium until the morning and check-in to a private hospital. After the 1st 5mg valium, I slept for a tiny bit, but then woke up with even more panic - so I took another valium. I now regret doing this as I feel that it just dulled everything.

 

I will try tonight to settle for rest. My body/brain is so scared to let go and my brain is just buzzing with activity. I don't even know what the thoughts are...it's just all over the place.

 

On a positive note, I do feel hopeful. I am 38 years old, but feel like I have just been born and now I have to learn everything from scratch.

 

My psychiatrist of 19 years used to tell me "zyprexa will protect you from stress" and that I'll need to be on it for the rest of my life. It has been six weeks now since my last dose, with two different benzos after that as an inpatient. My current psychiatrist who treated me in hospital actually refused to take me back in. He has been very firm with me and told me that I have to ride this out. Although he suggested to keep taking Ativan if I want to or try Latuda, he did not force anything on me at all or use any scare tactics. At times I resent him for not taking me in for another admission while other times (like now), I am so grateful that he is giving me an opportunity to heal. He is happy for me to get off the Epilim down the track, but he believes I should stay on Lithium because he believes I have Bipolar 1 disorder. I am not going to worry about this right now. I believe one day I will be able to function without any medication, but there's a long way to go.

 

Although sleep deprived and on the absolute edge, my soul is somewhat at peace. My mind is no longer tormented by Zyprexa. I used to do all sorts of crazy things when taking zyprexa (like gambling), but now, I have absolute no interest or urge. I really feel that Zyprexa affected my impulse control and this makes me sad because my old psychiatrist would always tell me that it's my mania. I am trying not to sit in resentment and focus on the huge injustice of all this. I know I am not alone.

 

I feel like I am starting to become human again and breaking out of the old shell. It is frightening and exciting at the same time.

 

I no longer care about being a successful IT consultant or making lots of money. I would be content with just being able to sleep and wake up again feeling rested.

 

I am trying my best to trust God and have faith. Deep down, I do believe that somehow this was all part of his divine plan.

 

Thank you all for your support. I get so excited when I see a new message come through.

 

Rico

[Rico]

i am very sleep deprived and stressed at the moment. My eyes are very tired and eye muscles are very sore. The stress is all in my head and when I close my eyes at night, my eyes seem to be in a fair bit of pain.

 

I have not being using benzos and just keeping things simple. I have found that smoking is making things worse, so I have to stop cold turkey.

 

I am worried that my head will be in this wired/stressed state permanently.

 

Anyone else experiencined these symptoms during withdrawal?

 

Am I putting my physical health at grave risk because of this withdrawal process?

[scallywag]

Withdrawal can be uncomfortable and painful. It is not permanent. Other people have gone through this and come out the other side feeling well and whole again. You will too.

[Rico]

Thanks scallywag. Things are definitely different without zyprexa/benzos. Being more aware of what's going on around me and feeling my feelings hasn't been easy - especially the anxiety.

 

It's hard being around my family and others who don't understand what I am going through. Also, having a mental illness diagnosis (whether true or not) makes life difficult because I feel like I have to be careful all the time with how I express me emotions, lest the police are called and I end up forcibly drugged where other people without a "history of bipolar" would just be subjected to standard legal proceedings. So, I sort of live in fear, and this has nothing to do with the anxiety of zyprexa/benzo withdrawal.

 

Thanks for your support.

 

Rico

[Happy2Heal]

i am very sleep deprived and stressed at the moment. My eyes are very tired and eye muscles are very sore. The stress is all in my head and when I close my eyes at night, my eyes seem to be in a fair bit of pain.

 

I have not being using benzos and just keeping things simple. I have found that smoking is making things worse, so I have to stop cold turkey.

 

I am worried that my head will be in this wired/stressed state permanently.

 

Anyone else experiencined these symptoms during withdrawal?

 

Am I putting my physical health at grave risk because of this withdrawal process?

 

Hi Rico

I am going thru some pretty intense insomnia myself, it's no fun at all

 

One thing I found that helps me is to find something that you want to do, like a book you really want to read or a tv show you really want to see.

when I do this, I forget about being worried about falling asleep and then my body relaxes enough and I slip off to sleep without realizing it

 

ok it's not too good to sleep in front of the Tv< but if that's the only way you can get to sleep without a pill, then it's ok for the short term, right?

 

your brain is healing, that is what the symptoms are telling you. Try to think of them not as signs of damage, but instead as signs that your brain is doing what it needs to do to heal, and the symptoms are proof of that.

 

try not to be scared of them. I know it's hard but it really does mean that you are healing, NOT that you are damaged.

it's your brain making the necessary adjustments now that the drugs are being withdrawn

 

 

the good news is, you will get better, it just takes time. It's so hard to wait it out, but before you know it, you will be feeling so much better and these bad times will be in the past

 

I am 61 yrs old now and have been on and off psych meds since I was 18 (but the most drugs were Rxed between age 40 and now, many different kinds, SSRIs, anti psychotics, litihium etc)

 

I withdrew cold turkey from some of these and went thru a rough time but then it was OVER! it seemed like forever at the time but I got thru it

 

Now I am down to just lexapro and unfortunately added on zyprexa low dose recently to help me thru a really bad spot, but I'm getting back on track and trying to keep my doses STABLE

 

it's hard to do, I know, when you are feeling so bad!! but it's going to be best in the long term

 

try very hard to do the same thing each day, take the same dose at the same time.

Our brains like things that way!!

 

it gives them the time to not worry so much about changes, and then our brains can use the extra energy to help put things back where they belong from withdrawing off the drugs.

 

I hope this helps you a little bit.

When you are feeling desperate, try to find something that you like to do, something that used to make you feel good, even if you don't; feel good doing it now, try to do it anyway and sometimes you'll find the old feelings come back

 

I do this now with my pet rats, I often don't feel loving towards them as i did in the past, but the more time I spend with them, the more the old feelings come back, kind of weak but there just the same

 

I'll check back later to see how are you are doing

hang in there, things ARE going to get better, ok?

[Miko789]

Hi Rico,

I just started following your progress,

I can relate to what you're saying as I have also the fear  to be careful all the time with how I express me emotions, let the police are called and take you to public psych ward.

 

Do you currently work? Have you worked the last period ?or you were tapering the zyprexa?

[Donkey]

Hi rico, could you please share how are you?