genlady: Celexa taper questions

[genlady]

Hi,

I am 63 years old and have been on psychicatric drugs for 34 years.  In the past five years I have discontinued Trazadone, Lamotrigine, klonopin, Seroquel.  The most recent one being Seroquel at 600mg. I tapered by 25mg. per month.  I  had horrible withdrawals and still had symptoms after three months after stopping it.  The most troublesome symtoms I still had was the sweating/chills, Chorea involuntary movements, burning sensation in my head, face, legs and arms, anxiety.  

 

I have been on Celexa for the past eight to ten years and just recently discovered that Celexa can cause Chorea movements as well, so I have decided to discontinue this drug too.  I began on 40mg. and started my taper 12 days ago at 5 mg. per month under the care of my general practitioner.   I have not  noticed any new withdrawals symptoms that I have already experienced  from the above symptoms, , just an increase in intensity from time to time ( especially the Chorea Movements).  

 

I am trying to eat healthy, I take amino acids, inositol/choline and vitamins and mineral supplements.  

 

I am currently chair ridden due to bone on bone arthritis in my hips; on the waiting list for hip replacement surgery hopefully to be done this fall/winter.  

 

It has been a long journey to get this far in my recovery from psychiatric drugs and I hope I can continue to be strong.

 

 

Genlady.

Edited August 25, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[Bruin]

Hi Genlady..........Welcome to SA and so many congratulations on your tapers.....It has certainly been a long journey.

You are doing wonderfully well and I do hope that the operation comes soon to give you your mobility back.

[scallywag]

genlady -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

Congratulations on taking yourself off Trazadone, Lamotrigine, Klonopin, and Seroquel!

 

When was your last dose of Seroquel?

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-18 months particularly? Any drugs prior to that can just be listed with start and stop years. Please put your withdrawal history in signature
 
Your plan to reduce Celexa by 5 mg per month is more than we've observed is best for many people.  Each time you cut by 5 mg, you are reducing by a larger percentage.

From 40 mg, it's 12.5%,
From 35 mg, it's 14.3%
From 30 mg, it's 16.7%
.. and
From 10 mg - 50%
From  5 mg - 100%
 

Those are big dose reductions that your brain and CNS (central nervous system) have to adjust for. It is those adjustments that produce withdrawal symptoms for many people.
 
What is withdrawal syndrome
 
To minimize the risk of withdrawal symptoms, we suggest that people reduce by 10% of their current dose no more often than once per month.
For you the next few doses would be : 35 mg, 31.5 mg, 28.3 mg, 25.5 mg, and 23 mg.
 
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
 
This topic is also relevant:  Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

I really hope you'll be careful and conservative with your last medication so that you get ALL the benefit of the time and effort you've put in over the last few years to eliminate medications.

Edited August 25, 2016 by ChessieCat
Corrected Celexa link

[genlady]

Thanks for the suggestion of decreasing my taper.  My doctor did say if I could not tolerate the 40mg. to 35mg I could alternate 40mg. one day and then 35mg. the next.  I've gone two weeks at 35mg. , but starting tomorrow I think I will change to 40mg./35mg. for the remainder of the month.  After that, I'm not sure how low to go, perhaps 35mg. one day then 30 mg. the next?  I think that will work out.   If not I will stay at 35 mg. for another month before lowering again.  I have insomnia very bad even with taking Melatonin and doing relaxation.  Stupid Chorea movements keep me awake.  and the anxiey, and rushing, burning sensation in my head and body.  I've gone two nights without any sleep with about two/three hour nap during the day.  

[ChessieCat]

Hi genlady,

 

SA recommends that you DO NOT alternate doses.  It is recommended that you take the same day daily at about the same time.

 

Here is the information on how to get the dose (the link in the previous post didn't work - I'll correct the link): 

 

Making a Celexa Solution

[bubble]

Hello genlady,

 

it might be good to wait with tapering Celexa until the symptoms from previous withdrawals resolve. Although Celexa might be causing side effects withdrawing from it while your brain is so vulnerable from previous withdrawals might cause even more problems.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Flowers]

Hi genlady

 

Good to see you here and to read that you have done so well with your previous tapers.

 

I have been tapering Citalopram/Celexa since the beginning of the year so it is good to have you onboard.

 

Good luck from Flowers xxx

[genlady]

Hello genlady,

 

it might be good to wait with tapering Celexa until the symptoms from previous withdrawals resolve. Although Celexa might be causing side effects withdrawing from it while your brain is so vulnerable from previous withdrawals might cause even more problems.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks for your input.  I was wondering about the previous tapers still causing symptoms.  I may have been quick in tapering the Celexa at this time.  I just want off these drugs.  I have decided to stay at 35mg.  until I'm feeling better.  I took 40mg. today and I didn't notice any difference except for the Chorea movements are more frequent than before.  Tomorrow I will take the 35mg. and stay there until symptoms are resolved.  Thanks again.

[genlady]

I get the burning sensation in my head very severe as well as in my legs and arms, sometimes so badly I cannot sleep.  It is there 24/7 .  Is there anything I could take as far as a supplement to decrease the intensity of this burning?  

Edited August 31, 2016 by scallywag
moved from AmyK's introduction

[genlady]

I am staying on 35mg. Celexa for at least another two weeks.  The question I have is when do I know it is time to taper again? Do I wait until all of the symptoms disappear before tapering again?   I have the burning sensation in my head which is sometimes severe preventing me from even sleeping.  I'm concerned that the nerves in my head have been permantly damaged?  I also have the sweating and chills, dizziness, insomnia.

[scallywag]

genlady - I've moved 2 of your posts:

• one you made in AmyK's intro about burning sensations
• a new introduction topic where you ask about when you'll know to start reducing dose, and

It's easier to answer your questions when all your questions and updates are in one topic.

 

There is a topic about burning skin sensations. You can find it by searching with google:

survivingantidepressants +topic +burning +skin

 

This is an excellent way to find topics about any symptom, just replace "+burning +skin" with the symptom about which you have questions.

 

The time to taper will be when your symptoms have stabilized -- that doesn't mean that they're gone just that there is a recognizable pattern and no wild swings. Most people need to keep track of their symptoms on paper to notice patterns. Please keep track of your symptoms and the time of your doses on paper.  This is a list that many have found helpful:
Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list

The symptoms you're feeling are not the result of permanent damage. They are the result of your CNS (central nervous system) repairing itself to drug-free condition. This topic has helped some members understand what's happening:
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

[genlady]

I received the phone call for pre-surgery screening for 22 September, 2016.  If all goes well I will then receive my surgery date for total hip replacement.  My question is ;  what should I do about the tapering?  It is around this time that I am due to taper again.  My surgery could be a month or two from 22 September, or sooner.  I don't want to be having bad withdrawals after having surgery and going on pain killers on top of it.  My opinion is to hold everything until after the surgery.  

[ChessieCat]

Hi genlady,

 

I've merged the new Intro topic you created to your original Intro/Update topic.  Each member has 1 Intro/Update topic where they can ask questions about their own situation and journal their progress.

 

As scallywag said in Post #11:  "It's easier to answer your questions when all your questions and updates are in one topic."

 

That's really good news about your hip replacement.  Leaving your tapering until you have recovered for the surgery seems like a good idea to me, however I'll leave it for the other more knowledgeable mods to offer suggestions.

[genlady]

I get the burning sensation in my head very severe as well as in my legs and arms, sometimes so badly I cannot sleep.  It is there 24/7 .  Is there anything I could take as far as a supplement to decrease the intensity of this burning?  

I have done some research about the burning sensations and have started taking Alpha-Lipoic Acid at 800mg. which is helping the burning sensation in my head.  It has been a huge relief.

[scallywag]

genlady, that's great news!  Would you update your signature to show the Alpha Lipoic Acid and the amount? 

 

After a few weeks of taking it and getting relief, it would be wonderful of you to post about ALA in one of the existing topics on burning sensations in the Symptoms & self-care forum. 

 

Parasthesia: pins & needles, tingling, burning sensations

Burning skin, burning feet

Burning mouth

[genlady]

It is day thirty of my taper and today has been a horrible day with increased symptoms.  The main ones causing the most difficulty is the anxiety with breathlessness, Burninging sensations, sensitive hearing and eyes, some depression off and on.  I'm wondering if I am overdoing the supplements or what.  I haven't really changed anything except increase the anti oxidant.  

[scallywag]

Have you been making notes of your doses (medications and supplements) as well as your symptoms?

[genlady]

Have you been making notes of your doses (medications and supplements) as well as your symptoms?

I make notes every day and the symptoms have not changed except they are more severe one day and the next not so severe.  My doses have stayed the same.  I don't know what is going on?  I am no longer tapering off the Celexa until after surgery, so it isn't a medication change.  

[scallywag]

Please post the last few days of your symptoms including when they appear/disappear/strengthen/weaken, and times of doses and supplements.

[genlady]

Please post the last few days of your symptoms including when they appear/disappear/strengthen/weaken, and times of doses and supplements.

 

6:00 a.m.  Supplements:  Choline/Inositol:  500mg.;  Vit D3. 400 IU.;  Omega 3's:  2000mg;  Alpha Lipoic Acid:  450mg.

                 Medications:  Celexa 35mg,  Lyrica:  150mg;  Naproxen;  200mg.;  Tylenol/Muscle:  1,000mg.;  Levothyroixine;  175mcg.

 

Symptoms:  Chorea involuntary muscle movements;  ( sometimes mild, sometimes severe );  anxiety ( almost constant, usually moderate);  frequent urination( every hour/hour 1/2);  ringing in ears ( moderate to severe , different every morning ), sensitive hearing, sensitive to light ( usually moderate) every morning,  burning sensation in head (  moderate to severe every morning ).  Chills: severe every morning

 

 

Noon:  Supplements:  L-Taurine:  1,000mg;  L- Theanine:  125mg;  Choline/Inositol: 500mg;  Alpha Lipoic Acid:  900mg;  Vit D3 400  IU;  Glutamine:  2 gm.;  Vit: B6: 250mg.

Medications:  Tylenol/Muscle:  500mg;  

 

Symptoms:  anxiety( constant moderate);  sensitive hearing:( moderate );  sensitive to light ( moderate);  burning sensation in head ( fluctuated hourly, from mild to severe);  ringing in ears ( fluctuated hourly from moderate to severe)., breathlessness ( fluctuates but always there )

 

6:00 p.m. : Supplements:  L-Taurine:  1,000mg.;  Choline/Inositol:  500mg.;  Alpha Lipoic Acid:  900mg.;  Vit D3: 400I.U.;  

                  Medications:  Tylenol/Muscle:  500mg.;  Naproxen:  200mg.;  Lyrica:  150mg.

Symptoms:  anxiety ( constant  moderate);  sensitive hearing ( moderate) sensitive to light ( moderate);  burning sensation in head ( fluctuates hourly, from mild to severe, getting worse when I move around alot );  ringing in ears ( fluctuates hourly from moderate to severe )  , burred vision:  (moderate to severe every day.)

 

10:00 p.m.:  Supplements:  L-Taurine:  1,000 mg.;  Alpha Lipoic Acid:  900 mg.;  L- Theanine:  250mg; Calcium: 1,000mg.; Magnesium:  1,000 mg.;  Melatonin:  5mg. ;

                    Medication:  Tylenol/Muscle:  1,000 mg.  

 

Symptoms:  Insomnia ( from 0 to 6 hours of sleep per night );  Anxiety (  moderate to severe every night );  Chorea unvoluntary muscle movements (  around 2 a.m. )  almost every night;  sensitive to light and blurred vision:  severe every night;   burning in head ( fluctuates from moderate to severe every night );  sensitive hearing:  moderate to severe;  breathlessness

 

 

I've had these symptoms before beginning the supplements and before tapering the Celexa; began when I   began tapering Seroquel in 2014.  , starting with the burning sensation in head.   The Chorea movements when mild only involve my legs and arms;  when severe muscle groups from face, back, legs, arms, stomach, neck and throat , and I lose the ability to speak.

 

Today is day 32 of my taper from Celexa; it has been 41/2 month since my last dose of 25mg. Seroquel.

 

One thing I've noticed though is I have to cut my Celexa 10mg. in half with a knife ( can't find the pill slicer) and they aren't always equal in half, so one day I will have more than 5mg. the next day less than 5mg.  Perhaps this is what is causing the problem?   I will have hubby buy another pill slicer or make a liquid solution of it starting tomorrow.  

[scallywag]

It's possible that the variation in daily dose (due to approximate tablet cuts) is having an effect. It's good that you're keeping your eye out for possible causes and for solutions.

[genlady]

Today, I stopped taking the Alpha-Liporic Acid after doing further research and learning it could interfere with my thyroid medication.  I have increased the L-Theanine to help deal with the anxiety.  Tonight, when the anxiety is usually the worst, after taking the L-Theanine 2 capsules, my anxiety is only moderate instead of severe!  Yeah!   I finally slept 7 hours last night which is rare.  It looks like things are getting better.  

[genlady]

I have been off of Seroquel since May of this year, but still experienced moderate to severe withdrawals symptoms when I decreased my Celexa from 40mg. to 35mg.  ( This was done for two weeks before coming to this site).  I didn't know whether to go back up on the Celexa at that time.  It has been 35 days on 35 mg.  and the symptoms remain the same.  I am not sleeping at night due to intense burning in my head and anxiety.  ( I did have one night where I slept 8 hours, but that was probably because I was exhausted from not sleeping the previous nights).  I have done relaxation exercises to help me get to sleep, taken supplements when are suppose to help you relax or help with anxiety, but nothing seems to help.  I guess I'm feeling a bit down tonight as well.  It could be because I know surgery is now becoming a more certain thing and I'm getting nervous about it.  I have a difficult time determining if I am seeing any improvement in the past month and a half.  Patience patience patience.  

[ChessieCat]

Hi Genlady,

 

"It could be because I know surgery is now becoming a more certain thing and I'm getting nervous about it."

 

This is the most likely cause.  And is definitely understandable.  Even though it might be hard to do, doing a few relaxation exercises throughout the day will probably help. JC likes the legs up the wall yoga position.

 

After my dog's demise, my daughter told me to "check in with myself" every so often throughout the day just to make sure I was aware of how I was feeling.  I ended up setting an alarm to go off every hour, just to make sure I would do what she suggested, instead of letting myself get too deep in brooding or whatever without realising it.  I'm fairly sure it did help me.

 

"Patience patience patience." and more patience ... and even a bit more ...

[genlady]

Hi Genlady,

 

"It could be because I know surgery is now becoming a more certain thing and I'm getting nervous about it."

 

This is the most likely cause.  And is definitely understandable.  Even though it might be hard to do, doing a few relaxation exercises throughout the day will probably help. JC likes the legs up the wall yoga position.

 

After my dog's demise, my daughter told me to "check in with myself" every so often throughout the day just to make sure I was aware of how I was feeling.  I ended up setting an alarm to go off every hour, just to make sure I would do what she suggested, instead of letting myself get too deep in brooding or whatever without realising it.  I'm fairly sure it did help me.

 

"Patience patience patience." and more patience ... and even a bit more ...

 

"It could be because I know surgery is now becoming a more certain thing and I'm getting nervous about it."

 

I've thought about the surgery, and I don't think it is the surgery that is causing the anxiety.  I have had both knees replaced, so I am not new to big surgeries; I know what is involved.  I think it may be that I decreased the Celexa too much to start with.  Because I have been on over 30 psychiatric drugs, gone off cold turkey from some of them and just changed from one to another over the years, non stop, my brain is having  a hard time adjusting to coming first from the Seroquel.  The last .25 mg was stopped without tapering it.  I had been tapering off Morphine at the same time as the Seroquel and experienced hallucinations, phycotic symptoms etc.  I gave it until I was stable as far as the terrible thoughts I was having, but physically I still had all of the symptoms when I decreased the Celexa by 5 mg.  

 

I am concerned about how I am going to do with surgery with my brain still experiencing the Neuropathy, anxiety, blurred vision, hot sweats and chills, ringing in the ears, sensitive to light and sound, temperature fluctuations.........   I will be discussing my withdrawals with the aenethesis ( sp)  and they are going to pump me full of narcotics after surgery.  What are your thoughts about this?  

[genlady]

  I have increased the L-Glutamine and for the past three days and have noticed my symptoms aren't as severe and the moderate ones are now mild.  So I will continue taking that one.  It is very difficult to see a difference in a supplement when my symptoms fluctuate from one moment to another.  I have been getting better sleep since increasing the L'Glutamine as well, not perfect, but an improvement from 2-3 hrs. sleep every night to some nights with 6 to 8 hours sleep ( of course waking every two/three hours to go to the bathroom)    

[genlady]

It has been 50 days since decreasing the Celexa by 5 mg.  Although I am sleeping better, the other symptoms ( anxiety, chorea movements, blurred vision, sensitive hearing, sweating, chills, breathlessness, ringing in the ears, Dysethesia has persisted about the same.  It has been four months being completely off the Seroquel and Morphine.  Having tried so many different supplements for anxiety and sleep without any help I have discontinued more of the supplements.   The supplement which has helped me the most is the L-Glycine @ 750mg. for sleep.  Ever since taking that I have had one week straight of from 6-8 hrs. sleep a night instead of awake all night or 2 -3 hrs. sleep.

[genlady]

Feeling horrible!

It has been 52 days since my taper and today has been just as bad as when I first tapered, in some ways worse.  My eyesight has been really suffering: blurred vision, very sensitive to light, visual disturbances.  I don't know what to do about it any more.  Am I expecting to be feeling better too soon or what?  I have been discontinuing supplements when they run out because I can't tell whether they help or not.  Right now I'm concerned about whether I'm taking too much L-Glutamine.  Is Inositol safe to take while taking Celexa?  Google searches tell you nothing.  I'm feeling very frustrated, can't sleep ( again ), and just want it to end.  

[ChessieCat]

Here is SA's link to inositol

 

To search this site use google and type in survivingantidepressants.org + topic.

 

Searching this survivingantidepressants.org L-Glutamine brought up various links.

 

When starting anything new, start it by itself and test a very small dose.

 

Don't forget that you fairly recently stopped both Seroquel and Morphine as well as dose reduction of Celexa.

 

Healing/stabilisation is not linear.  See Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[genlady]

Quote:  Don't forget that you fairly recently stopped both Seroquel and Morphine as well as dose reduction of Celexa.

 

Thanks Chessie cat, I had forgotten that I have had a lot going on.  And thank you for answering my post.   It threw  me because of the new symptoms I started having.  I looked back in my diary and saw that I do have a series of good days, followed by two or three bad days.   I spent the entire night researching L-Glutamine and feel comfortable continuing that supplement.  The L-Glycine I started taking and had seven days of sleeping well, then the last three nights everything went off track.  I look forward to the good days ahead.     

 

Can you tell I have a problem with patience. lol  

[reachingforthestars]

I cannot take calcium in the evening since it stimulates too much. That's why I have to take it earlier. 

[genlady]

Within the last week or so I have also noticed a period of anger that comes out of nowhere.  Yesterday, however,  I had to go to emergency because a blood vessel broke in the back of my leg and we couldn't stop the bleeding.  The stress of having to go through the physical pain of having the wound taken care of was almost overwhelming.  The doctor had ordered homecare to come in every day to take a look at the wound and change the dressing.  Well, I received a phone call from "homecare", asking me to come into the medical facility to have the wound taken care of.  I was taken off guard and didn't know what to say, so I agreed to come.  Afterwards I became very angry that they would not come to our home and do it.  I then began worrying about going there and going through so much pain due to my arthritis in my hips.  I knew I was worrying, and tried everything I could think of to stop it.  I became angry because I couldn't stop what was happening.   I had been experiencing anxiety before this, but the phone call made it worse.  I tried distracting myself; I would have done deep breathing to try to relax and slow my brain down, but I was having the involuntary muscle problem in my throat and was also having a problem even breathing.  I ended up crying, and shouting at my husband to come comfort me because I was completely overwhelmed.  Just having him hold my hand and telling me everything would be o.k. calmed me enough.  The feelings of anger and the worrying thoughts magically disappeared as fast as they had come.  

 

My question is,  can WD cause these worrying thoughts?  and the anger associated with it.  Has anyone else experienced something like this?

[scallywag]

Yes, anger and increased worrying are withdrawal symptoms.

What is withdrawal syndrome

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list

 

You'll find discussion about anger here:

Coping with irritability, anger, and rage

[genlady]

Day 61-  The burning sensation in my head has been severe all day with dizziness. I've noticed burning in my throat and down into my chest, making it difficult to breath.  Today, again has been a difficult one for incontinence and frequent bathroom trips every hour and a half..  It seems the days I have the increased amount of burning sensation is the day I have more of a problem with incontinence.   I haven't been sleeping at night again, but have been able to nap during the day, especially right after breakfast.  I spend my nights watching videos and sometimes fall asleep for an hour or two, only having to go to the bathroom.  My eyes have been hurting/burning as well and light hurts them.  I also have sensitive hearing today.  The Chorea movements have been frequent, but not as severe as a few months ago.  A blood vessel in my leg broke and I have an open sore that is bleeding.  It has to heal before I can have my hip replacement surgery, so that has been on my mind a lot.  I don't have a surgery date yet, so there is still time to heal.  I am using L-Glycine and L-Glutamine which both help with the healing process.  

 

I don't worry about not sleeping at night, but it would be nice to sleep 8 to 10 hours straight through the night without having to go to the bathroom every two hours.   

[scallywag]

Are your eyes sensitive to light throughout the day, or only when you're awake at night and watching videos?

[genlady]

Are your eyes sensitive to light throughout the day, or only when you're awake at night and watching videos?

My eyes are sensitive to light all day, even after waking up after three hours sleep.  I have blurred vision as well which worsens throughout the day.  I have used eye drops because do suffer with dry eyes, but that doesn't change the sensitivity to light.  I couldn't watch television today because of it.  My computer is adjusted to the lowest light.  When my eyes are really sensitive I don't use the computer.  I sometimes have to put on a sleep mask to rest my eyes during the day .