Frogie: how to taper off Lexapro and Xanax?

[apace41]

 

Hi, Frogie.

 

Sorry you have not seen any improvement.  If you don't feel a little better today I think it would make sense to cut the supplements tomorrow and see if that shows any signs of improvement.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Hi Andy:

 

I forgot to ask you how long will we know if it could be the supplements making me or contributing my nausea?

 

Hope you're doing well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

The general rule on all things is that 4-5 days will see the changes to your chemistry.  If you aren't feeling improvement by next weekend I would think it was likely that.  The only issue would be if you feel better in the very short term you might not know if it is the updose or the supplements but we will live with that problem should it occur.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

 

 

Hi, Frogie.

 

Sorry you have not seen any improvement. If you don't feel a little better today I think it would make sense to cut the supplements tomorrow and see if that shows any signs of improvement.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

 

Hi Andy:

I forgot to ask you how long will we know if it could be the supplements making me or contributing my nausea?

Hope you're doing well.

Take care,

Frogie xx

The general rule on all things is that 4-5 days will see the changes to your chemistry. If you aren't feeling improvement by next weekend I would think it was likely that. The only issue would be if you feel better in the very short term you might not know if it is the updose or the supplements but we will live with that problem should it occur.

 

Best,

 

Andy

.

 

Ok sounds good to he.

 

Scallywag told me a long time to get some Dramamine. So I bought some that says All Day, less drowsy. I'm still really sleepy, and didn't help the nausea at all.

 

I looked all over for the lemon balm, and can't find it anywhere around where we live. I'm going to order some.

 

Hope you're feeling better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Day 5 at 7.9mg. Still nauseated when I get up in the morning.

 

Not fun to open your eyes and be sick.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Day 6,

 

Still nauseous.

 

Stopped supplements, hopefully that will help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

Sorry, Frogie.  I know how much this sucks.

 

Do you notice any improvement -- no matter how slight?

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

Sorry, Frogie.  I know how much this sucks.

 

Do you notice any improvement -- no matter how slight?

 

Best,

 

Andy

Hi Andy:

 

I do notice a little improvement, don't feel like I'm going to throw up, but still very nauseous.

 

It does s**k. I wish it would go away. My Uncle is coming today for 5 days for Easter.

 

How are you doing?

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

I do notice a little improvement, don't feel like I'm going to throw up, but still very nauseous.

 

Hold onto that, Frogie.  Let's hope this is the start of things turning for you.

 

 

 

How are you doing?

 

Thank you for asking. When I don't respond it's not to be aloof -- just because I'm trying to avoid thinking about it.  I've been struggling in a big way the past several weeks. I am tired, brain fogged, muscles ache with random pains shooting all over my body.  Just trying to slog through it one day at a time and hoping for the day it turns for me.  

 

So, I can relate to you.

 

Hang in there.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

 

I do notice a little improvement, don't feel like I'm going to throw up, but still very nauseous.

 

 

Hold onto that, Frogie.  Let's hope this is the start of things turning for you.

 

 

 

How are you doing?

 

Thank you for asking. When I don't respond it's not to be aloof -- just because I'm trying to avoid thinking about it.  I've been struggling in a big way the past several weeks. I am tired, brain fogged, muscles ache with random pains shooting all over my body.  Just trying to slog through it one day at a time and hoping for the day it turns for me.  

 

So, I can relate to you.

 

Hang in there.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Hi Andy:

 

I hope things are going to turn around. I'm soooo tired of being sick.

 

I'm sorry you are not doing well. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you start to feel better very soon. I don't take offense when you don't answer me, you told me you weren't feeling well.

 

I hope we can both feel better soon.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Day 7, still nauseous.

 

Have a physical Monday, so had my blood drawn and my, sodium, chloride, bilirubin, ALT, triglycerides RBC, hemoglobin and hematocrit is all high. But I hadn't had even a drink of water for 14 hours, so I think that has something to do with it. I don't know. This happened to me before. I hadn't drank any water for at least 12 hours and my blood was all messed up. I hope that's what it is this time and not something worse.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[JanCarol]

Hey Frogie - 

 

horrid 7's

 

Wonderful 7's, charming 7's, gonna-be-great 7's.  Cast a positive thinking spell on this one - catch yourself when you say "nasty 7's" and think "marvelous 7's" because - you've got to go through them, if you want to come off the Lexapro!

 

An alternate way to do it - is when you catch yourself hating 7's - turn into Gollum, and call them Precioussssss, nasssssty 7's - and do it long enough that it loses power, you lose the attachment and can laugh at yourself.

 

Because if you think you are blocked by 7's, you will be!  But if you think (and this is more likely):  it's just a number.  It's hard right now, but I will get through this, then you will.  Get through it!

[JanCarol]

Apace writes:

At the end of the day only you can decide which way to go.  My personal view is that I would at least try the updose route until you get to the last place you felt okay (8.1mg).  After that, I would probably reverse course and start moving down.  I'm hoping that you can find stability without nausea by going back to that level. I'm always wary about any plan that includes the notion that you have to get off to feel better.  Sometimes that is the case but I would view that as a last resort because it tends to lead to very fast tapers and potentially difficult withdrawals.  If you do find yourself in a place where you are having adverse effects from the medicine then it makes sense but not until you have given yourself every chance to stabilize and taper slowly.  Again, reasonable minds can differ and others might not agree with me.

 

Apace, that is said brilliantly, and I agree wholeheartedly.

 

If stable at 8, then stay on 8 for another year if need be.  We are no longer concerned with your liver, the doses are lower than doctors recommend.

 

But it is ultimately up to you.  I'm a little afraid of lots of movements in dose, even tiny ones - and believe they will extend your hold time, the more of them you have.

 

But a long hold, is an awesome way to heal, once you get to a point where you can comfortably hold.  Then just stay there, and work on your non-drug techniques, and perhaps later - your body will be more stable and support you as you taper off. 

 

That's like the whole essence of harm reduction - if tapering is hurting, then don't taper.  Holding is healing, too.

Frogie:

I know that going off any antidepressant is not a walk in the park for most people. I have seen people go off and never have a symptom. How lucky are they?

 

Their "luck" may be a false appearance.  We really know so little about others' moccasins.  It might look easy in the first year, but became harder later.  Not all of them - but some of them will walk away.  Some of them will return, too.  We had this discussion on the Benzo vs. Antidepressant thread.  At about 3 months, I have heard so many people say, "I did it!" only to be knocked down later.

 

It's kind of like looking at rich people and saying, "they're so rich, they're so lucky," but what you don't know is the misery of trying to protect all that money, a loveless marriage, or estranged children, or business vultures - everybody has their own walk to walk.

 

I'm sorry yours is nausea, but there are worse cards to be dealt.

Here's a question for your journal or meditations:  What is in your life which you find difficult to digest?

 

That may sound fluffy - but - I just heard Jung say it in a lecture last night, so there is some respectable background for the question.  You don't need to answer here - just taking your inquiries of "why me?" to the next level.

 

I don't even want to go anywhere. I just want to stay at home in my "safe pace". Is that wrong? I did go with my fiancé last night to his company dinner. We sat in the back of the room. He sat on one side of me and his boss (which he and I get along so well), sat on the other side of me. I felt safe.

 

Good for you to feel safe at a social event!  I might have had to go to bed for 2 days after sitting next to boss - even if I liked him!  

 

But no - there's nothing wrong with wanting to stay in your cocoon.  To a point.  If you are so cocooned that you are not bathing, or haven't seen the sun in days, then maybe it's good to get out.  It was good you could go out with your fiance to run halfback for you!  My hubby does that for me sometimes - though sometimes I do it for him (depends on social setting).

 

GiaK wrote about it here:  http://beyondmeds.com/2012/09/11/isolating-or-alone-time/ .  She had to live in a separate part of the house to her partner for awhile, she needed that head space, that alone time, that curled-up-in-a-ball healing time.

 

OMG then you tell us:

My Uncle is coming for Easter. I'm excited to see him, but have to entertain him for 5 days. I will just get a positive attitude and maybe I can do it.

 

How's that going?  Does your Uncle have any special needs that you adjust for?  What about your life changes while you have this person - love him and all - in your house?

 

I think about this.  I have a large house - with a spare bedroom (currently full of stuff).  All I have to do is clean the bedroom - and the rest of the house - and I could invite people over - from America - from Europe - c'mon down, it's Paradise here!  (it really is.  In the gym yesterday, while I was doing leg lifts - I inhaled, and smelled a eucalypt forest.  How good is that?)  But I'm "blocked" or can't wrap my head around what it is like having someone who wakes and sleeps at normal hours.  Who has regular mealtimes.  Who wants to go places and do things.  Who wants to watch TV or be somehow entertained.  

 

Right now, I think I have a 3 day limit.  Dad always said, as we travelled and visited folk:  "Guests, like fish, smell after 3 days."  I think that's my comfort zone.

 

(but of course, I live at the ends of the earth, and any guest would have to stay at least 10 days to get a full visit!)

I'm only halfway down page 17, but I'll post this for now.

 

It's good to "visit" again with you Frogie.  You'll get better.  Just imagine the Lexapro is a big bad wolf, and you are  mouse.  Stay very still, until the wolf leaves you alone!  Then you can get better.  Maybe you tapered too soon after stabilizing last year - maybe another 6 months waiting would have been good, but that's under the bridge.  You got better before, you will get better again!

[JanCarol]

Hey Frogie:

 I go to therapy to learn how to do things without friends and wanting to stay in my safe place. Learning to get out and do things on my own.

 

This sounds really good!  A nice balance between "caving" (that's what I call my safe space:  the cave) and "outing."

 

Doing little things, gradually builds up resilience and buoyancy.  I just did a few posts in my thread about how - doing it again, and again, repeating a thing until they get comfortable, natural - helps build up resilience.  Then, at some point, you do it enough times that you get good at it, and you gain confidence, and strength - and competence.  

 

At first it might be something as simple as brushing your teeth every day (I still work on that one, for whatever reason).  Or going outside once a day, even just to get the mail, or take a short walk around the neighborhood.

 

Before you know it, that walk is easy, and you start to expand and grow.

[JanCarol]

G'day Frogie!

 

I told my fiancé that I had stomach cancer. And he said no, you're going off Lexapro and your sick like everyone else.

 

Wow, it sounds like your fiance has it figured out!  Of course, he doesn't have to suffer, he just has to watch you suffer - but - his perspective here is so clear!  You're going off Lexapro, and you're sick like everyone else.  High five to the BF for "getting it!"

 

(I know, that doesn't always help when you're SURE that you've got some horrid thing going on.  I think I've sent you this link before:  Health Anxiety, Hypochondria, and Obsession with Symptoms )

 

I looked at the Acceptance page that Andy sent, and the cartoon there was really really great!

 

Did you see it?

I just read a great article on Magnesium chloride (baths) for digestion.  Both the mag and the chloride aid.  The article also reminded me about lemon water and ACV water.  I also put ACV in the mag bath to improve absorption.

 

How did you try the ACV?  I put a teaspoon in a tall glass of cold water, and keep it in the fridge and sip on it (especially as I wake up through the night).  If it's too strong, make it weaker!  There is a taste, but it can be acquired.  I haven't quite gotten to craving it yet - but I've gotten so that I don't make a face when I drink it.

 

You can do the same for lemon water.  Just start with it very very weak, and gradually build up until you can handle it stronger.  Both of these will help stimulate your natural digestion, and improve your stomach acid profile.  (I alternate between them, I prefer the lemon water - very refreshing, especially cold, but I drink both).

 

I just want to remind you that there is no magic dose.  I think your nausea hit - not because of a number - but because it was too soon from your big 1/2 dose drop.

 

You're now at the point where going slowly will be your friend.  I agree with Apace that the Brassmonkey slide might be helpful for you.  It's an extra sneaky way of fooling that tiger into not noticing that you are getting away!  Just a little at a time!

 

I hope you get to feeling better soon!

 

And I hope you see the sun today!  (even if the neighbors are weird!)

[Happy2Heal]

great posts JanCarol, there's a lot of good advice that I could use as well.

 

Frogie, I hope you're feeling better.

keep your chin up, you'll get thru this. Just remember how far you've already come!

 

your system probably needs a break, after getting off all those other drugs just a year ago, right?
you'll get thru this

hang in there!!

[Frogie]

Hi JanCarol :

 

I read everything you wrote.

 

I will get back to you next week after my uncle leaves and I have a physical on mon.

 

Wish me luck on the physical.

 

Thanks for all the info. I have a lot of things to write.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Day 8, no nausea

 

Day 9, no nausea.

 

I hope I'm counting the days right lol... Hopefully the nausea will stay away.

[apace41]

Good news, Frogie!

[Frogie]

Good news, Frogie!

Apace41 (Andy):

 

I'm happy for 2 days! I'll take it.

 

Like you said, you wouldn't know if it's the Lexapro or the supplements?

 

Could I hold a month, no supplements, and try Brassmonkey's taper and see what happens?

 

We might know by then.

 

I sure hope you're feeling better. . Miss talking to you... Feel better!

 

JanCarol wrote me a lot. I'm going to get back to her after my Uncle leaves, and my physical mon.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Day 10: a small amount of nausea.

 

I guess 2 days was too much for my body...

[Frogie]

Day 11: small amount of nausea again.

[apace41]

Day 11: small amount of nausea again.

 

I know it remains frustrating, Frogie, but the good news is that you are making progress.  If you did a graph of where you are v. where you were you are on the ascendancy.  That's a positive.

 

Just keep hanging in there.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

Thanks Andy:

 

I hope you are feeling better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Well, I had my yearly physical this morning. Everything that I mentioned in an earlier post was high because I hadn't had anything to drink for 14 hours. You would think I would learn, it's not my 1st physical. I will remember next year.

 

My EKG was great. But, I have a hypothyroid . I've never had a problem with my thyroid before. It's not bad. TSH is 4.710 and T3 is 22. The dr put me on Levothyroxine and I have to go back in 6-8 weeks for a follow up blood test.

 

Is anyone on that med? How does it do? My insurance would only pay for generic.

 

Thought everyone would get a good laugh out of this. If you read my thread, when I get to the (wonderful 7's, as JanCarol says lol). I get extremely nauseous. I asked him about that. He said well, try skipping the 7's and go down to 5 and take the anti nausea meds you have, that should work.

 

I know exactly what he doesn't know about Lexapro.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Day 12: still nauseous

[Happy2Heal]

[Frogie]

That's exactly how I feel...

[Frogie]

Day 13: still nauseous not fun

 

I just started the generic for sythroid 2 days ago, could that be making me sick?

[apace41]

Day 13: still nauseous not fun

 

I just started the generic for sythroid 2 days ago, could that be making me sick?

 

You were less nauseous for a bit.  Did the return of nausea coincide with starting the synthroid?

[Frogie]

 

Day 13: still nauseous not fun

I just started the generic for sythroid 2 days ago, could that be making me sick?

 

 

You were less nauseous for a bit.  Did the return of nausea coincide with starting the synthroid?

I'm not sure. I started getting more nauseous Monday. Then I went to my physical and he put me on this med. I started it Tuesday, and was really sick when I got up Tuesday morning, after I took the med. it let up about 2 hours later.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

 

I'm not sure. I started getting more nauseous Monday. Then I went to my physical and he put me on this med. I started it Tuesday, and was really sick when I got up Tuesday morning, after I took the med. it let up about 2 hours later.

 

By now you are probably tired of me saying this, but, with all due respect, Frogie, I know it is easy to come to this site and ask questions and have others answer them for you.  However, part of this godforsaken journey is learning to take personal responsibility for your own health issues.  I plugged "nausea and synthroid" into Dr. Google and got a ton of hits.  Did you do the same?  If not, ask yourself why you didn't?  You seem to have a strong desire to have others tell you what you should do when it comes to your health.

 

From what I see synthroid has "nausea" as one of its frequent side effects.  Perhaps you should try a couple of days without the synthroid and see if you feel less nauseous?  If you do you can talk to the doctor about alternatives or ways to address the issue.

 

I do want to see you feeling better, Frogie -- I really do.  But I also want you to learn to fend for yourself to a certain degree.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

 

I'm not sure. I started getting more nauseous Monday. Then I went to my physical and he put me on this med. I started it Tuesday, and was really sick when I got up Tuesday morning, after I took the med. it let up about 2 hours later.

 

 

By now you are probably tired of me saying this, but, with all due respect, Frogie, I know it is easy to come to this site and ask questions and have others answer them for you.  However, part of this godforsaken journey is learning to take personal responsibility for your own health issues.  I plugged "nausea and synthroid" into Dr. Google and got a ton of hits.  Did you do the same?  If not, ask yourself why you didn't?  You seem to have a strong desire to have others tell you what you should do when it comes to your health.

 

From what I see synthroid has "nausea" as one of its frequent side effects.  Perhaps you should try a couple of days without the synthroid and see if you feel less nauseous?  If you do you can talk to the doctor about alternatives or ways to address the issue.

 

I do want to see you feeling better, Frogie -- I really do.  But I also want you to learn to fend for yourself to a certain degree.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Hi Andy:

 

I did plug it into google and it said it can cause nausea for a week or so. I was just asking other people if they had the same problem.

 

Also, I just make a note on the days that I'm nauseous on here, so I can keep track. I tend to lose things.

 

I'm really trying to fend for myself. I know other people are on here that need help too.

 

I hope you're doing better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

I'm glad you checked into that and I'm sorry if I seemed nasty.

 

I WAS feeling better -- had a very small "mini-window" between Sunday and Monday (first one in months).  The window shut hard (on my fingers it feels like!) and I'm kind of frustrated and depressed so I think I took it out on your post a little.

 

Sorry about that.

 

Take a day or two off the synthroid and we'll see how it goes.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

I'm glad you checked into that and I'm sorry if I seemed nasty.

 

I WAS feeling better -- had a very small "mini-window" between Sunday and Monday (first one in months).  The window shut hard (on my fingers it feels like!) and I'm kind of frustrated and depressed so I think I took it out on your post a little.

 

Sorry about that.

 

Take a day or two off the synthroid and we'll see how it goes.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Andy:

 

I'm sorry your window didn't last longer. I was hoping you would start to feel better.

 

It's ok, when people don't feel well, it's easy to say things you don't mean.

 

Like I said, I just make notes on here so I don't lose them. And maybe people are going through the same thing and can give me some ideas.

 

I wrote a thread on Monday. If you get time, you'll have to read it. You'll get a kick out of what the dr said.

 

Hope your window opens again soon.

 

If I'm not better by tomorrow, I'm going to call the dr and see what he has to say.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

I wrote a thread on Monday. If you get time, you'll have to read it. You'll get a kick out of what the dr said.

 

I read it.  I follow you, Frogie, so I see everything you post in real time!  

 

Like so many doctors this is the approach.  It is the functional equivalent of taking your car to a mechanic because the "check engine" light is on.  The mechanic comes out with a roll of electrical tape and covers the light.  "Problem solved!"  Only this is your life and not your car.  So sad.

 

 

 

If I'm not better by tomorrow, I'm going to call the dr and see what he has to say.

 

Because his performance as outlined above was so stellar?  

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

 

I wrote a thread on Monday. If you get time, you'll have to read it. You'll get a kick out of what the dr said.

 

 

I read it.  I follow you, Frogie, so I see everything you post in real time!  

 

Like so many doctors this is the approach.  It is the functional equivalent of taking your car to a mechanic because the "check engine" light is on.  The mechanic comes out with a roll of electrical tape and covers the light.  "Problem solved!"  Only this is your life and not your car.  So sad.

 

 

 

If I'm not better by tomorrow, I'm going to call the dr and see what he has to say.

 

Because his performance as outlined above was so stellar?  

 

Best,

 

Andy

Andy:

 

You are right. Maybe I'll wait a couple more days and see what happens. I'm wondering if a new medication is reacting weird with me. But it does say it can cause nausea.

 

I found someone here that takes synthroid. I asked them if they had nausea. I'll wait for them to respond.

 

I didn't know you read my threads in real time. That's kinda cool. That really does show you care about people. Thanks.

 

Believe it or not I care how you are doing too.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

Believe it or not I care how you are doing too.

 

I know you do.  Thank you.

 

Best,

 

Andy