vjekob: Getting off Olanzapine based tablets

[vjekob]

I'm writing on behalf of my daughter (18) who has now been on Olanzapine based tablets

for 2 months. She suffered a shock some time after graduation. At the time, she showed

signs of being lost/not recognizing that her mother was present/wanting to go home.

After a lot of discussions, we now suspect it was due to being withdrawn (something

we unfortunately didn't see as a serious problem then), not being involved enough in

external activities and mixture of feeling of not fitting in in high school,some issues

about "looks",trying to find an escape on the web (lot of time spent) and

overexertion in an attempt to pass each year.

 

After this shock, we drove to the hospital to see what should be done. My daughter

exhibited anxiety there and was put on a drip to get some energy and 10mg/day (night dose)

Olanzapine based tablets.

 

 I'm working from home, so naturally I could follow my daughters progress closely.

10mg/day was a horror story - headaches, early morning anxiety/looked heavily sedated,

invoking vomiting upon sight of food, felt that people she heard were talking about her,

slight phobia of other people. After two days, of this, I saw that something needed to be

done, but since I couldn't get in contact with the doctor in question, I took things into my

own hands (but unfortunately without too much reading on the web) and cut the dose to

5mg/day. My daughter's situation improved drastically, and the doctor just indicated that that was OK.

 

At that point in time, I just started feeling very uneasy about those tablets and the doctor -

the issue with the high does just made me loose complete trust in that doctor. I called

another doctor to get another opinion about the dose but was just given information

which I felt was very similar to the present doctor. I then reduced the dose further

to something over 3/4 of the 5mg tablet and took my daughter to a Psychologist

as I felt the time and progress at the psychiatrist were not giving results.

My daughter's situation improved further (less anxiety), but she showed more sensitivity

to sound/light/smell and now has more of a phobia that people are talking about her and

feels shame that she is visiting a psychologist/psychiatrist . I tried reducing the dose

ever so slightly again (using a precise scale) .At this point in

time, I had (unfortunately late) found out that decreasing the dosage should be done

very slowly - so maybe I'm to blame for some of the side effects due to withdrawl.

 

Yes, I did take things into my own hands without doctor's backing because I simply

don't believe these tablets are helping my daughter unless heavy sedation is

a solution - so I am looking for any way to get her off these tablets/ finding alternative

solutions to her problem. My daughter is now at some 2.9mg/day - I would appreciate

any advice as to who could help me with information on what I should do regarding the

dose (I am keeping it at 2.9mg for now - although I don't see it helping) , sensitivity side effects and her phobia

of what people think/shame (other than physiotherapy).

Personally, I would very much like her taken completely off tablets, but would

like to hear feedback from a doctor who doesn't take Olanzapine so lightly

as the doctors I have met.

 

I forgot to mention one important point / the side effects I mention seem to

lessen as the day passes - so that by evening time, I cannot notice

them on my daughter and her communication and reactions seem

"normal" - another reason why I feel that she should be taken off Olanzapine.

 

My daughter is supposed to start college next week and I'm not sure how

she could be helped to cope with that. On the other hand, not attending,

besides the obvious ,  will mean once chance less for meeting people/

helping her to get over her phobia.

Edited October 3, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[herewego]

Hi vjekob,

 

I too am slowly coming off olanzapine. A moderator will be along soon to give you links to tapering, why not faster than 10% ect...

I am using orally disintegrating tablets - Olanzapine ODT. It dissolves in water but the actual olanzapine then sinks to the bottom. I am having some success then adding in ORA-Plus which seems to suspend the particles evenly. I first dissolve the 5 mg pill in 4 ml of water, then I add in 6 ml of ORA-Plus and mix, then I take out about 4 ml of the liquid using the syringe which gives me about 2 mg of olanzapine. I refrigerate the unused portions and then use again the next night. I have bought 1 ml oral syringes (with minute markings) for when I get down to lower amounts. Another member here is using a scale to weight the amounts as he goes down.

 

Definitely do not rush your daughter off this medication or she will likely go thru terrible withdrawal for possibly months even years as some here experience with going cold turkey. If I were you I would leave her at the amount you are giving her for 6 months to make sure she is stabilized and not experiencing withdrawal symptoms anymore before attempting to taper further slowly. You are definitely right to want to take her off this medication, but go slowly. I too have found this medication very sedating, but it definitely improves the lower you go. At 2.9 mg she is likely much more alert than she was at 10 mg. Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[vjekob]

Hi herewego,

Thank you very much for the information and feedback. Yes, the difference
between 10mg and 5mg was like night and day, 2.9mg is even better, but
she is sensitive to sounds (car, motor bike, keys opening the door) - nothing
drastic, but she listens for the sounds, mentions that concentration is
not the best (I expect it's from the sensitivity to everything -sound, light, smell).

 

So, I'm wondering what the role of the tablets is if they have now added
another problem - wasn't there anything else the doctors could have given
her just to calm her down and then let her recover through love of her family and
psychotherapy ? I'm not a psychiatrist and don't know whether I'm oversimplifying
what my daughter went through/what is needed to recover, but I'm unsure
whether Olanzapine was the only answer.

 

We visited another hospital 2 days ago as I had read an article in which the doctor
stated that psychiatry is 90% psychotherapy (talking) and the rest is medicine upon need basis,
So I thought he would have something to say about Olanzapine (reducing it), but
he stated that it was a quality medicine and that my daughter should
keep taking it for a while. I wish I could find a psychiatrist who would
take my daughter off Olanzapine and give her something lighter , preferably natural(if needed)
as I don't see the benefit of this medicine. My daughter is "normal" late
in the afternoon/early evening - how does one explain this - to me the best
answer is that the medicine has worn off.

What I'm frequently thinking about is that my daughter is not a schizophrenic but
had a shock/breakdown whatever is the correct terminology, so why
give her this medicine ?  In addition, my daughter was prescribed a benzodiazapine
based tablet to be taken at least once per day for sedation. I told my daughter
that she could calm herself down by closing her eyes, calming herself and breathing,

so she has taken these tablets only 2 times (only half a tablet) in the two months
- once when the dose was 10mg and another time when we over did it trying
to convince her to come out with us.

 

The last time we had an appointment with her psychiatrist, my daughter mentioned
a rash (which we later concluded was from other reasons) and the psychiatrist
prescribed Risperidone based tablets as an alternative(at a dosage which was way above what is
written in the instructions) - I decided to keep her on Olanzapine instead of
adding another possible problem.

 

So, I am disappointed in the psychiatrists I have encountered to date and would
like to find one that would remove this medicine and focus on ways my daughter
would cope with what she's been through and how to strengthen her.

 

I will dig through the information in this forum, but if anyone has anything
good to say regarding food/vitamins/exercise or anything else that I should
really focus on to help my daughter, please indicate.

 

 

[scallywag]

vjekob -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)
 
I'm sorry that your daughter has been caught in the current pharmacological model of psychiatry. I'm glad that you're questioning the current, accepted "wisdom" of diagnosis+drugs. 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-18 months particularly? Any drugs prior to that can just be listed with start and stop years. Please put your withdrawal history in signature  

 It's good that you are reducing your daughter's dosage of olanzapine gradually.  As you may have read, we suggest that reducing by no more than 10% of current dose once every 3-4 weeks as a taper to start with that minimizes the risk of withdrawal symptoms.
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
Tips for tapering off Zyprexa (olanzapine)
 
Symptoms are a good guide to whether it a reduction has been too large or happened too soon. For more details about symptoms, please read
What is withdrawal syndrome
Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list

These two links, the first a topic on this site, may provide useful explanations about the symptoms your daughter may experience.
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"
Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants
 

Food: A nourishing diet is good for all of us. Getting enough protein, healthy fats, vegetables, legumes (beans and peas) and whole grains is satisfying. I find eating this way leaves me little appetite for the less healthy choices of sweets, snack foods (chips, etc.) and alcohol.

 

You asked about supplements. We have found that most people respond well to magnesium and omega 3 fish oil supplementation.  Most North Americans and many Europeans do not eat in a way that supplies enough of either of these two nutrients that support brain and nervous system health.
Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker
Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Exercise is helpful but it should be gentle exercise such as short to moderate distance walking at an easy pace, swimming at an easy pace, yoga, tai chi.  Aggressive strenuous exercise seems to worsen withdrawal symptoms.

[vjekob]

thanks scullywag and thanks for the info ! I will now continue in the other forums.

[vjekob]

OK, not sure if I'm in the right forum, but maybe someone has an idea
of what else I can do:
My daughter (18) had a shock two months ago and is now on Olanzapine.
From discussions with her, we concluded (right or wrong) that she was
too withdrawn at school (feeling she didn't fit in) , spent a lot of time on the web,
stressed by overtime in learning and had some low esteem issues
due to pimples/facial changes etc (she is quite sensitive). Now, after taking
Olanzapine she adds sensitivity to sounds, people speaking/laughing (seems
to think people are talking about her) and feels shame for going to the psychiatrist

and psychologist. Now sticks mainly to her bed (although college is to start
next week) and is "afraid" to go outside because of the "shame" and "thinking
of what people will say about her. Additionally, she doesn't have much interest

in anything and even after many attempts of positive ideas about simple
steps of sitting on the balcony and walking to the gate to just check things
out, there is nothing that will get her to move. I am desperately trying to get
her to take some simple steps but everything is too hard for her - she is
simply too afraid (although she thinks / answers clearly and goes on the
balcony only to listen to what people are saying. Not sure whether I triggered
this by my not too slow tapering of Olanzapine but she has been acting
similarly from the beginning of taking Olanzapine

 

Any ideas of any natural product or some action that I could do to get her
to do something - I'm afraid she will put college on hold and that will
just create more problems since college is an excellent opportunity to
be around peers / be out of the house ?

[herewego]

Hi Vjekob,

You mentioned that your daughter is sensitive to sounds/light - that is likely from tapering too fast. You will find that in the link scallywag gave you to 'what is withdrawal syndrome'. That is why your daughter now needs to stay at the dose she is at for a while and stabilize first before attempting to taper any more.

 

I too felt that perhaps something less could have been done with regards to medication amount and length of time I was told to stay on it. A lot of these medications are really only supposed to be used on a short term basis - which would make tapering off them easier for many but that is often not how doctors treat these meds. Same with amount - they could try your daughter on the smallest recommended amount first to see if she responded but it seems many doctors are quick to put patients on a higher amount which is unnecessary and can cause unwanted symptoms like the sedation your daughter had.

 

You mentioned wanting to put your daughter on something more natural. Well that might have worked before your daughter was put on Olanzapine. But now that her body is going through withdrawal her system may likely be oversensitive to different vitamins/herbs ect... Once she has finished tapering and has fully recovered from withdrawal you could try more natural methods if she feels she needs it but I would be very careful right now. For example for people not going through withdrawal vitamin B is helpful usually for stress, but for someone in withdrawal it can be way too activating and cause stress.

 

If at some point she struggles to fall asleep some people here have tried melatonin and found some success with that - though it doesn't help with early morning wakenings just with falling asleep. Find the link here on melatonin and give it a read if she has any insomnia - remember less is more with melatonin - the amounts sold at the store are way too much and can cause an adverse reaction. I cut my 2 mg pill into 1/8's and take that and that works for me - making it .25 mg.

 

You may also find it hard to find a doctor to support you when you decide to taper your daughter off this medication - but you can do it without their approval and help - just read all the links scallywag gave you and you will find out. There are also links on this site on what to expect from your doctor and how to talk to them, but again you can do it without their help - I am. Wishing you the best as you help your daughter.

[vjekob]

Thank you herewego, yes, I think I over did it with the reduction, but the tablet
was creating a lot of side effects which were reduced towards the end of the
day, so I followed my instinct but overdid it. I will now follow the recommendations strictly - and
am sure the doctors will not help , especially now that I have done something

wrong I'm putting the smiley there although I certainly can't smile now.

 

I opened another post regarding depression my daughter is going through now and college
is supposed to start next week and I may have ruined her chances - what's done is
done and I need to take myself out of the equation and work hard with her now,
but she is pushing me out, so it's hard.

[vjekob]

My daughter is on Olanzapine for 2 months after a I guess I should call it

a type of nervous breakdown  (after a lot of reading, I suspect it is based on a mix of

long term low-esteem/insecurity issues). She does not have schizophrenia or other illness nor

were there any abnormalities found from scans, but she was put on 10mg Olanzapine

from the start. I was late finding the tapering info, so her situation

now (wanting to keep to her room) is probably due to too quick tapering:

10mg  several days, 5mg, 3.75mg and then slower tapering - to 2.9mg.

 

The problem in my mind is that although I may be responsible for the depression

(her wanting to stay in her bedroom) due to quick tapering, I can't really see any benefit that the drug

has had for her i.e. at 10mg the situation was really bad (headaches, wanting

to vomit, very sensitive to sound, light, thinking people talking are talking about her

etc. , 5mg improved the situation but she still wanted to stay in the house

and now at 2.9mg, she doesn't listen to what people are talking about

but wants to stay in her room.

 

We visited the psychiatrist to freeze college and the psychiatrist suggested

to increase the dose to 10mg and add antidepressants in the morning.

My daughter just looked at me and I just nodded (there's no way that

I'm going to increase her medication/ let these "doctors" experiment).

 

Anyway, would you suggest continuing slow tapering or go a bit more

quickly - I'm wondering whether the situation could get worse if I sped

up the tapering or would maybe get even better.

Edited October 11, 2016 by scallywag
merged 2nd intro topic to first

[Altostrata]

Welcome, vjekob.

 

I have moved your topic to the Introductions sections. Please follow or bookmark this topic and post your questions and updates in it.

 

It sounds like your daughter may be experiencing withdrawal symptoms. Other than staying in her room, what is she feeling? Are there other things bothering her? Maybe she feels bad about not being in college?

 

If I were in your daughter's position, I would stop tapering for now, let her nervous system settle down, and see how she does over the next month. Please ask here to keep notes on paper about her symptoms, when she takes her drugs, and their dosages.

 

Please read Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

Edited October 11, 2016 by scallywag
merged from 2nd intro topic to first

[ccb73]

vjekob,

 

I am like that daughter, I thing. Long term self esteem and self confidence issues led me to psychiatry for 23+ years.

 

Because of my fears in life and low self esteem, I missed normalcy; it's complicated but I can offer my help if you want.

 

I wish her and you the best.

Edited October 11, 2016 by scallywag
merged 2nd intro topic to first

[KarenB]

Hello Vjekob,

 

I'd like to encourage you that holding at the same dose for a while as Alto suggested can really make a big difference to how your daughter is feeling.  Symptoms should lessen, and once she is stabilised again she could then continue to taper at a slower rate. 

 

I recently did a hold myself and it make a great difference to me.  Many of our members find the same.  I am sorry you are in this situation - it must be so hard to see your daughter in this way. 

 

Wishing you peace,

Karen

Edited October 11, 2016 by scallywag
merged 2nd intro topic to first

[vjekob]

Thank you for the info - I'm afraid I couldn't find any help via doctors
and am worried that if my daughter was to go to a hospital that they would
up the meds and I'm truly afraid for my daughters health/well being.

I will hold the dosage for a while and hope things get better.

 

ccb73 - I can fully relate to what you wrote and am sorry that psychiatrists
are still glued to the pharmaceuticals and have not recognised the importance
of selfesteem and how to treat it without meds. I have found the book + workbook
from Dr. Sorensen on "breaking the chains of low self esteem"
(website : "getesteem") and plan to go through this with my daughter. I also wanted
to get her to plan some simple exercises into her day as well as working
on her problem with pimples (which is most probably an enormous problem for
her self esteem). The problem is that my daughter right now is in a state of not being
interested in anything and my lack of authority with her (guess I may have been too
soft as a parent) means that I can't talk her into doing very much.

 

I want to focus on just a few activities for her to keep her out of bed, but she frequently
just wants to go back there. She refuses to wash herself for a couple of days
until it becomes clear that she should. She comes to breakfast and cooked a few eggs for lunch today,
is sensitive to sounds, looks at what people are doing outside and doesn't really
want to come in contact with anyone off the street. She has thoughts about being useless
I just try to comfort her and tell her how important she is to us and this works.
Maybe someone has some idea on how I can motivate her to do something - or should I not
expect too much until the meds stabilize ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

How is she feeling?

 

Withdrawal can make a person sensitive to sounds and light. She may want to spend time in a dim room because of this.

[herewego]

If you keep her at 2.9 mg for some months, she will most likely slowly improve from the withdrawal she is experiencing and become more engaged with life. Once she has improved for a while and has seemed to have stabilized for a couple months, then you could consider a slow taper. She would likely then be ready for college next September (as long as you do not taper her too fast - go by her symptoms, if she gets worse updose a little or just do a longer hold at the same dose until she improves. If during her taper she experiences withdrawal do not keep tapering her until she is stable for a while or she won't handle college well next year. Go according to how she is feeling but not faster than 10% per month.

 

For now you may try encouraging her to get out for a walk after lunch or in the afternoon, or engage in some activities after lunch until early evening - not every day from after lunch until early evening but some activities in the week like getting together with a friend, going shopping, or just walking. I find on Olanzapine I feel more sedated until after lunch plus morning is also when I seem to feel withdrawal more too (like if I have had a bad sleep I feel yucky during the mornings). So I plan my more active parts of the day for after lunch and no later than early evening. Then I do calming activities in the evening and end the day reading a calm book in bed with dim light until I feel sleepy. Just a suggestion on what has helping me engage in activities - knowing the timing of when it might work best. Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[vjekob]

How is she feeling - what can I say but she keeps saying that she is not good,
showing lack of interest, wanting to stay in her bed
and uncomfortable to come in contact with anyone outside the family, hesitant to
access media eg facebook (where she spent too much time before), irritated by
songs which have some sad meaning ,not interested much in TV (any series with
violence are absolutely avoided), not interested in doing anything much at all .

 

herewego - sedated/withdrawl in the morning is exactly the situation. The problem is
that my daughter didn't really have any close friends from school where we live (primary school), the
situation was not much better in the city (high school) where she last went to school and now
everyone has gone their own way to college, so there's noone - and our other
daughter studies in another city. She feels ashamed to just walk alone or with me (ideas that
it's strange to be around just the parents) - so it's tough. On top of that she doesn't really want to go outside
for a walk and doesn't listen to my suggestions. I will just try to go easy.

With all that said and understanding the benefits of slow tapering, I somehow have a gut feeling
that if cold-turkey withdrawl symptoms would not be much worse or remain longer, it would be better
to quit, go through withdrawl and start on the psychological healing - I'm just afraid of what
Olanzapine is doing long term especially as it hasn't helped at all. Maybe if the dosage had been
started much lower and tapered with some positive results I would be more optimistic.

[herewego]

Please do not have her go cold turkey - she will feel much much worse than she is feeling now and will most likely take much much longer to recover - possibly even years as many report here after a cold turkey. She is on a fairly small amount and she is young - she will be ok to do a slow taper and will feel much better that way than the alternative you are considering. The withdrawal could become so severe that she contemplates suicide and then she will end up back in the hospital and on more and higher amounts of drugs. You may not feel optimistic now but you will be wishing she was as good as she is now if you have her go cold turkey - guaranteed! Please just be patient, it will only take some months or less for the withdrawal to go away and then you can start a slow taper and she will start to become more alert and motivated as she slowly goes down. I think if you do it this careful way she will be ready to go to college in the fall and engage in life then as she will be slowly tapering by then and no longer having such bad withdrawal and feeling more motivated being on a smaller amount. Just be patient for this college year and she will very likely be ready by next, but if you have her go cold turkey she could be out of sorts for years plus the risk of hospitalization and more and higher amounts of drugs. I bet the withdrawal will be much improved within 3 months and she will start to want to do more. She may have little options this year for socializing - but that is a small sacrifice so that she can be back to college by next year and become more engaged by then.

[vjekob]

herewego - thank you for the info and motivation - I will then follow the advice you and
others are giving. I am trying to be very patient ,motivating and loving and happy if I
see the smallest action from my daughter. I know one thing for sure - I will be persistent
and get her off these tablets.

[herewego]

That is so good to hear. Your daughter is lucky to have you supporting her through this time.

[Altostrata]

How is she feeling - what can I say but she keeps saying that she is not good,

showing lack of interest, wanting to stay in her bed

and uncomfortable to come in contact with anyone outside the family, hesitant to

access media eg facebook (where she spent too much time before), irritated by

songs which have some sad meaning ,not interested much in TV (any series with

violence are absolutely avoided), not interested in doing anything much at all .

 

 

This sounds like a nervous system sensitized by going on and off drugs. Withdrawal syndrome can include sensitivity to light and sound, wanting to avoid commotion, confusion, startling at loud sounds, and hyper-reactivity to violence or tragedy in TV shows.

 

We often recommend staying in a quiet, dark room for a while to let the nervous system settle down.

 

You might verify the above with her. If she is in this state, she may be relieved to find you understand.

 

She may also be in a state of shock about her circumstances as a "psychiatric patient."

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

[vjekob]

Alto, you described what my daughter is going through/feeling perfectly - I am sure that
it is withdrawl syndrome since I made the cut from 10mg->5mg(due to severe side effects) ->
2.6 too fast. We all try to take some Magnesium Chloride
when we can (it is horrible to drink ), but I will look into fish oil for my daughter also.

I see improvements in how my daughter feels after a period of 4-5 days of staying on a fixed dose
- which is very good news. I feel that this period may be a good starting point for future
reductions.

The only thing I am not 100% sure of is whether the Olanzapine is uniformly distributed
throughout the tablet/whether this may be causing problems (I am cutting the smallest
 tablets - 5mg) - will ask pharmacy if other dosages exist.as I am both cutting 5mg
tablets in half and slicing down the half to the required dosage as well as combining
pieces of the tablet from last cutting.

[Altostrata]

Unless you are weighing those fragments, the dosage will variable.

 

Magnesium citrate or magnesium glycinate would be better. Some people even ingest magnesium sulfate, that's what's in Epsom salts.

[vjekob]

Yes I am definitely weighing each dosage with a 3 digit scale (1mg resolution) - but I'm
wondering how uniform the 5mg Olanzapine is spread in the tablet (tablet weighs 160mg).
If it's not uniform but eg. only in the middle of the tablet, then this whole weighing business doesn't make sense.

[Altostrata]

If you can get 2.5mg tablets, that might be your next step, and remove that concern for a while.

 

If you can't get olanzapine compounded, then cutting up tablets and weighing is your only option. I suppose you could pound the tablets into powder before weighing. Short of that, assume the distribution of active ingredient is uniform.

[vjekob]

I posed the question to the forum of the manufacturer but no answer yet - thought
it may be something standard about the manufacturing, but will try again with
the manufacturer and the pharmacist (there's no mention of 2.5mg on the instructions,
so I guess that is it but will double check), but will need to cut those also .

[vjekob]

Finally got a reply from the manufacturer - here's my best translation: "Olandix contains
the active substance olanzapine, which is uniformly distributed in the tablet so that the
tablet can theoretically be divided into several parts, although this is not foreseen. A tablet of
5 mg olanzapine is the lowest available dose. Please consult a doctor who has prescribed
the therapy before tapering".

Looks like there is no support for those needing to taper. Nothing else to do but
stick to my 3 digit scale, people like you for help  and pray to God to get my daughter safely off these tablets.

 

[scallywag]

To achieve consistent lower doses you could make a liquid suspension from the tablets.  You can use water and a crushed tablet to make a suspension. The olanzapine doesn't dissolve, so the resulting liquid has visible powder floating in it. You need to shake the liquid so that the powder bits are evenly spread throughout the liquid and then use a syringe or pipette to draw liquid from the center of the container.

 

Making a liquid from a tablet or capsules

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

[herewego]

I've had success mixing the olanzapine with ORA-Plus to get an even distribution. If you can get your hands on some ORA-Plus that would work well for making a liquid.

[vjekob]

Thanks for the info about the liquids, but I think I'll stick to cutting/scraping the tablet as it's
the simplest and consistent for me now..
I've added Magnesium + Fish oil supplements.

After several days on one dose to stabilize wd, we are now working on a 10% taper linearly (10% in 10 days i.e.
1% = 1mg tablet weight per day). What I find is that my daughter is improving i.e. no more
listening/thinking that someone is talking about her, still in bed most of the time but opens the curtains/keeps
them open the entire time and comes and eats her meals, puts away her dishes etc.. Still
very sensitive to sounds and people generally bother her.
As the reductions show improvement,I was wondering whether it would be a good idea
to maybe put a few larger reductions (I am afraid of long term effects of Olanzapine) eg
make a 2% reduction every few days - I guess I could try and see what happens ?

 

[scallywag]

If what you are doing is producing good results, why take on the uncertainty of a change?

[vjekob]

I am afraid of long term side effects i.e. I would like to get to zero ASAP - trying to do
what is absolutely best for her health.

 

[jmncrr]

vjekob.

Are you experiencing any withdrawals with tapering 10%/10days linearly?

[vjekob]

this is about my daughter. It's a bit hard to say whether what I see are withdrawl
symptoms or just side effects of Olanzapine. Before the nervous breakdown
she was a little withdrawn but went to school , shops etc. - quite normal, but
after the breakdown she was prescribed 10mg (headaches, desire to vomit when seeing
food, anxiety,  sedated etc).- I cut this down to 5mg after 2 days (headaches had disappeared)
and then further to 3.75mg (desire to vomit disappeared but - sensitivity to light/sound
wanting to stay in bed in the dark and constant checking for voices from outside / feeling they
were talking about her / shame about being in the state she was persisted).
Some of these issues are due to withdrawl/my quick dosage reduction.

 

Now, with the situation stabilised after some days at a dosage and 1% drops afterwards, with a couple
in between 2-3 days staying at a dosage (if I see she persists staying in bed), my daughter
doesn't listen for voices/think someone is talking about her, but is still quite sensitive to sound
and doesn't want to talk to anyone outside of the family / others annoy her. She still stays in her room but
mostly with sun shining in the room. And with the 1% reductions, this doesn't change much.
The biggest problem I have is that she has almost no interest in doing what I say (exercise,
some reading about self esteem which I feel will uncover the culprits behind all this) except
for taking the meds and supplements - but she does come to eat and shows just a little
fear about eg loosing us, otherwise everything sounds and looks normal. Her level of interest has
increased since the dosage was reduced and I have the feeling that she is almost there
to be pushed over some barrier which is holding her back from showing interest.My gut feeling
is that most of this will go away when we get the meds to zero. My gut feeling also tells me that
I should continue with the reductions rather than wait a long time for the meds to fix something
as Olanzapine has done absolutely nothing for her. If I knew then what I know now, I would have
asked the psychiatrist to sedate her with something light for sleep and rest and have her visit
a psychologist and perform other tests to check for what is lacking.

[scallywag]

I urge you consider holding your daughter's dose for 3-4 weeks to see if there are any symptoms that aren't showing up because the CNS (central nervous system) is dealing with small frequent dose changes. Consider them as one might a refueling stop for a trans-oceanic flight -- it makes the trip longer overall, but ensures safe arrival.

[AmyK]

Hi Vjekob. I am so sorry this is happening to your daughter. You seem like a very caring mum, and you are doing so well question the psychiatrists agenda.

I am just concerned about your scale. You do know that there are digital scales that weighs down to 0.001 g? Is that the one you have?

Otherwise that could be wise to look into.

Many of us use the Gemini 20 (0.001 g) digital scale, easily bought on the internet.

All the best,

Amy

[vjekob]

Hi Amy, I'm a caring dad   (fortunate to work from home to be there for
my daughter) - yes, I did start with a 2 digit scale but bought another
3 digit scale as I'm scraping off the mg ( the last digit) and without 3 digits,
that is not possible. I bought a G&G I think it is the C50 - German company
with history of making scales - this one is their cheapest /made in China, but
still good enough for scraping mg's