artSet3561: Hi...you're my last resort

[artSet3561]

Took myself off setraline as I don't need it any longer. I was using it to cope with a particularly mentally abusive relationship and it gave me the strength to leave so for that I am thankful. I tried to come off it twice and crashed and burned. My doctor told me I was tapering too quickly so this last time I took it slow(ish). I got to the point where taking the meds made me feel worse so I quit. I am now 8 weeks in and my relationship hangs in the balance. My mood swings are dreadful. My fiancé thinks it's my symptoms but I know it's not it's the withdrawal. I wake some days with a big black hole in my centre and cry uncontrollably during the day, with dreadful feelings of not being able to cope. Then the next day I am fine. I know it's my withdrawal and I know I just need to ride this, but I have days where I am struggling and just needed somewhere to vent.

 

I am due to get married in January but everything hangs in the balance ATM. My fiancé is American and he is talking of going home....he says he cannot stand to walk on eggshells all the time and I am destroying him and he won't allow me to do that to him. I see his hurt, and I know I am extremely difficult to be with right now, he'll I don't even like myself some days, I just need an outlet so I can give him some space from my dreadful moods

[scallywag]

artSet3561 -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)
 
Thank you for posting and introduction and for completing a signature. 
 
Some questions about your signature:

• What do you mean by tapered "one less" and "two less"?
   
• What date did you take your last dose of sertraline? An approximation, such as "early July" is fine if you can't remember the actual date.
   
• You've listed your symptoms. Do you notice a pattern to them? 

Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms. This link goes to a post on this site that details a useful format for keeping a daily log of symptoms: Take notes of doses and symptoms

 

Here is some information about withdrawal symptoms:
What is withdrawal syndrome
Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list

To minimize the risk of withdrawal symptoms, we suggest that people taper off antidepressants and other psychiatric medications very conservatively: no more than 10% reduction once per month. You can read more about that and about sertraline in the discussions at these links:
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

Some people -- though not all -- experience relief from their symptoms by reinstating a very small dose of the medication they have discontinued. If you are interested in this and when we know more about your situation, we can provide you with more information. After you're clearer about the benefits and risks, we can suggest a dose for you to consider. The most predictable "window" for reinstatement is from 1 day - 3 months after the last dose, so it could help you.

 

I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

[artSet3561]

Hi scallywag, thank you for your reply.

 

One less 50mg tablet a week for four weeks, then two less tablets I.e. Omit Monday and Thursdays dose. That is what my doctor recommended, I got so forgetful where I was up to on the tapering and started to feel worse after my tablets that I just gave up.

 

My last dose was probably end of September, I think.....

 

I haven't kept a diary of symptoms so I don't notice a pattern, just some days are good, some days are bad, I am worse when hormonal, I know that much!

 

Having read through the posts here I did question whether going back to a small dose might help alleviate some of the feelings, but I am scared to go backwards.

 

I will alter my signature

[scallywag]

Just so I understand, to taper, instead of taking a 50 mg dose every day you

 

+------+---------+

| Week | # doses |

+------+---------+

|  1   |    6    |

+------+---------+

|  2   |    6    |

+------+---------+

|  3   |    5    |

+------+---------+

|  4   |    5    |

+------+---------+

|  5   |    4    |

+------+---------+

|  6   |    4    |

+------+---------+

 

 

... etc. until you starting feeling sick after taking each dose

 

Reinstatement is a step forward not backward withdrawal withdrawal symptoms. It's hard to believe but it is the experience of many people, not all but many, that reinstating what might be considered a "micro-dose" can ease their withdrawal symptoms. Some get relief quickly, for others it is more gradual over multiple weeks. Some get complete relief, some get symptoms weakened enough to deal far more effectively with their daily life commitments and activities.

 

Please read the topic on reinstatement especially the first post and come back here to post any questions you have.

[artSet3561]

Correct on the dose analysis, although perhaps a little slower, a change every 4 weeks, until taking them made me feel worse than not taking them....then felt great for about 4 weeks then slowly slid backwards....

 

Will read reinstatement x

[artSet3561]

On a positive note....I cut my tablet into about 12 pieces, so I am taking approximately 4mg doses and my mood swings have subsided dramatically. I feel almost normal again, at least I can concentrate at work and hold information in my brain!

 

I felt like a failure having to go , what I perceived, as backwards, but reading the articles you guided me to made me realise that this is not a game of wills...me vs tabs, I was not going to 'win' by muscling through, so I allowed myself to take a sanity break. I will stay here for a few weeks until I feel able to drop slowly again. I refuse to feel shame. And my fiancé is eternally grateful for you, and for me dropping my pride and reaching out to you guys. I am thankful for your guidance.

 

A stubborn wench x

[KarenB]

I haven't followed your thread art, but what a positive post you wrote there!  Such a good reminder for all of us - thank you,

Karen

[scallywag]

Too bad the site software doesn't have a "Like" button. You're welcome.

 

You may find it helpful to read/bookmark/follow these two topics:

The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization

How long to stabilize after reinstating or updosing

 

Keep us posted on how things go for you.

[artSet3561]

I am really struggling ATM. I updosed because I was having terrible withdrawal symptoms. The updose however wasn't helping as after a few weeks I was having symptoms again so I took a big updose from 4mg every day to 25mg every other day and for the first week got relief again. However now I am feeling terrible the day after I take my tablet. Dreadfully low mood, irritable and tearful, the next day, the day without the dose, I start to feel really good again.

 

I don't know whether is should be lowering the dose or increasing the dose at this point. Today I feel particularly bad with nervous anxiety....I get married in 3 weeks and can ill afford these terrible old swings. I guess I need some help and advice.

 

Am I taking too much or too little? Half of me wants to say 'sod it' and go back to my full dose for a while and start again in a years time

[ChessieCat]

Hi Art,

 

SA's recommendation is to take the same dose at approximately the same time on a daily basis.

 

Please clarify:

 

In November were you taking 4mg every day?

 

1.  In December did you alternate 4mg and 25mg (4mg one day, 25mg the next then 4mg etc)?

 

OR

 

2.  Did you change your dose to 25mg on start alternating days (ie 0 one day, 25mg the next then 0 the next etc)?

 

Neither 1. or 2. are recommended by SA.

 

Once you have clarified what dose/s your are currently taking and when you are taking it/them, we can offer a suggestion of what you might be able to try.

[artSet3561]

Hi Chessie, you are correct

 

In November I was taking 4mg every day...

 

In December I updosed to 25mg every other day (0 mg one day 25mg next)

[ChessieCat]

Skipping doses is really asking for trouble.  Please see:  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

And from:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?   (NEVER ALTERNATE DOSAGES TO TAPER. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE, THIS IS SURE TO SET OFF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.)

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

How long have you been taking 25mg alternate days?  If it has been since the start or middle of December it would probably be best to halve the dose and take 12.5mg every day.  If it has only been for about 1 week you may be able to take a lower dose daily.

[DaddyCee]

I'd agree that skipping doses is not a good plan.

 

You were on 4mg a day and then increased to 25mg every other day, which could have shocked your CNS. I would suggest sticking to a dose and then you should stabalise after a 4 - 6 week period. I wouldn't recommend updosing any further though.

 

Peace,

 

DC.

[artSet3561]

Thanks guys, chessie I anticipated your response so have decided on 12.5mg every day. 4mg just wasn't cutting it I'm afraid and my Sertraline is dreadful for cutting up, it just crumbles, at least 1/4 tab I can measure properly, I can take it from there.

 

Unsurprisingly I already feel better for my dose this morning in what would have been a day off.....not very good at this am I

[Flowers]

Hi 

 

Hope the dose you have decided on works for you. Everyone is different. From my experience it may be that it takes a while for you to feel better. The best way is to be patient and keep your doses the same and take them at the same time everyday.  Your CNS needs stability.

 

If you  find  you don't feel better it might be best to ask advice from the Moderators. They really know their stuff and give wonderful help.

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers x

[artSet3561]

Thanks flowers, your kind words are appreciated...onwards and upwards:)

[JanCarol]

Hey ArtSet - how you going?

 

Are you still on 12.5 mg per day?  That's 1/2 of a 25 mg tablet?  Or is it 1/4 of a 50 mg tablet?

 

The crime is, they do not give us the tiny doses we need to taper safely, so the best thing to do is take it into our own hands, and do a liquid taper.  There is a liquid prescription sertraline available in the UK, to help you with tapering.

 

How are the wedding plans going?  Or are you giving that a break?  Did you get enough stability to move forward with that?  If so, congratulations!

 

If you cannot get your doctor to prescribe liquid sertraline, you can make your own:

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

and

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/

 

Let us know how you are going!

 

I hope you see the Sun today.

[artSet3561]

Hi JanCcarol, as you can tell from my absence I have been doing okay, with the wedding and everything...all loved up However I am back here as I am still struggling. I did take 12.5mg every day and still am but I think I am taking a slow nose dive. It's so hard to be pragmatic and objective! I don't know if it's stress at work, hormones, the come down from a wedding or my medication or a mixture of all of those things.

 

Excellent on the liquid advice, I have been wondering how I would lower doses any more, but at the moment I am actually considering going up a little until I stabilise.

 

Symptoms are tears, overly sensitive, anger, an inability to concentrate which is causing me issues at work, I sometimes have days where there feels like a physical black hole in my centre. At 46 I'm unsure if I'm just peri-menopausal or it's the meds, I feel a bit of a loss at the moment. My husband has suggested going back to my 50mg dose and having a proper planned taper rather than struggling at this low dose trying to make it work.

 

I am cutting up 50mg tabs so they do crumble which isn't helping as I know my dose is an approximation, roughly a quarter of a tab depending how it crumbled when I cut it

[KarenB]

Going back up to 50mg would be huge jolt to your system.  How long have you been regularly taking the 12.5mg daily for? 

 

I do suggest finding a way to get your doses accurate before considering an up-dose.  You can get sertraline in a liquid, or make your own:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1441-tips-for-tapering-off-zoloft-sertraline/

Edited February 14, 2017 by KarenB
added missing words

[artSet3561]

Thanks guys. I had a really bad morning this morning, I haven't been that unwell in a very long time, however an hour after my dose I picked up. I have already made a 1:1 by following the guidance and have a syringe to measure my dose tomorrow morning. Onwards and upwards hopefully x

[artSet3561]

Well I got down to 7.9mg and I'm giving up. I cannot continue this rollercoaster. I am struggling to do my job, I am terrified about a holiday that I have booked. Something I should be looking forward to. My relationships all round are suffering f but most of all I'm exhausted. I am so tired of not knowing from one day to the next how I will be, I cannot cope with the off the rails behaviour and the terrible pits of depression or anxiety I find myself in. Even dropping such minute doses I have awful days. I hate to give up but I e lost my fight, I'm so tired of trying to do this whilst hold down a full time stressful job, work at a new marriage and build my other business. I feel like such a failure but I'm tired and worn out

[Altostrata]

Don't blame yourself, artset. Sometimes you have to hold on tapering for a while, maybe a few months, and let your nervous system settle down.

You've still come a long way, give yourself credit for that.

[ChessieCat]

Hi artSet,

You haven't failed.  You have reduced your drug load.  You can stay at a dose on which you feel okay and hold on that.  Down the track you may decide that you want to try again.

[artSet3561]

Thank you for your kind words. I struggle with failure too and really don't want to give up all my hard work. Perhaps if I updose to 8 or 10mg and stay. I e just looked through my mood diary and I am 50/50 good/bad ATM I'd prefer to be 60/40 or 70/30 ?I just want 'me' back and not this pathetic  barely holding on some days, insecure person I become... sorry for the whoa is me ? A bad couple of days has me like that and they have been b-a-d ...

[Junglechicken]

HI ArtSet,

Im really sorry you're going through such a bad rough patch.

You're doing so well, and although you want to give up - don't!

One things for certain....we are all going to experience blips in this taper journey, and this is just one of yours.

Very impressed you're building up a business as well, but be careful about putting yourself under so much pressure....you are in a fragile state, as we all are, when on this medication and dropping the dose.

Sounds like you are stretched in too many directions, when you really need to spend more time focused on your recovery.

Sorry to state the obvious.

Is there any chance you can "take your foot off the gas" for a while to allow your nervous system a chance to calm down??

HUGS,

JC x

[artSet3561]

Thanks JC you're a doll. I actually feel better as the day has gone on. I upped my dose back to 8mg this morning and that seems to have calmed me somewhat, I'm just so tired of the not knowing how I'm going to wake every day. Preaching to the converted aren't I? 

The only time I remember feeling 'normal' was actually on my full dose and I crave the days of mental and emotional stability. The thing is, when I look back at my bad moments (like last night) I'm certifiable! a crazy woman, I don't even make sense to myself, but when your heart is pounding, you feel sick and your thoughts are racing and seem to take on a life of their own - its very difficult to be pragmatic.

Thanks so much all for your kind support, thats all I needed, a little kick up the bum x

[Junglechicken]

Being "kind to yourself", is not something that comes naturally to many of us.

If you think about all that you're coping with: new marriage, high stress job, new business, AD tapering.........its A LOT!!!

I know those being crazy moments, but they're a message to you saying "slow down ArtSet", "you're trying to do too much when you need to be kind to yourself at this time".

Great news that the day improved

Definitely don't give up!

JC x

[KarenB]

Hugs, artset - big warm hugs for you.  The others are so right - be kind to yourself, recognise the good you have done, and honour what you need to do now. 

 

Earlier this year I completed an 8-month hold, and it helped me so much.  You will find the steps that are right for you.  

 

Karen

x 

[artSet3561]

I have a new question. How can you determine if your anxiety is withdrawal or reinstated issues for which you were prescribed in the first place? I ask because my anxiety is quite high at the moment but I have a very stressful job, I cannot afford to quit my job because I am the wage earner and tbh when I feel okay, I enjoy it. Is it WD or should I just be back on the AD and accept that maybe I need them to help manage my moods? I also worry that as a 46yr old female there are hormones involved too 

[miT]

I had the exact same question when I started out here. It's just a wave. Your CNS is still searching for the right balance.

 

I reinstated as well and also have waves of high anxiety. Have you learned techniques to cope with it?

 

Congratulations with your wedding :-)

[KarenB]

In addition to the two options you have outlined - having anxiety or going back on drugs - there is a third option.  It has no side-effects, does not 'poop-out' on you, will work whether the anxiety is from w/d or a pre-existing issue, and it has the best long-term outcomes:  non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms 

[artSet3561]

Thanks for your responses guys. I think this little wave was due to forgetting my Saturday dose and at such a low level it has big effects. I do know how to deal with my anxiety as I have had it since I was 18 on and off. Yoga and breathing are my practice, the trouble is when I get too bad I.e tearful and angry with intense emotions, I do find it difficult to get my brain to concentrate on anything other than my misery! I have had a great deal of hypnotherapy and CBT which I can apply, again, great for mild not so much for extreme