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No recommendations for commercial programs to assist withdrawal


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#1 Altostrata

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:04 PM

There are a number of commercial programs that say they will help with withdrawal. They usually sell ordinary supplements that are relabeled and marked up so they are quite expensive.

I've looked closely at each of these programs and I do not feel I can recommend any of them. If I found a program I believed gave better advice than this site and provided truly effective supplements worth their cost, I would happily send everyone there and close up SurvivingAntidepressants.org.

But so far, what I've found is these programs are overpriced and the tapering advice is no better informed than the advice you'll find here, and sometimes dangerously misleading. See discussion here Truehope, The Road Back, LabelMeSane

In some cases, supplements are recommended that may exacerbate withdrawal symptoms in sensitive nervous systems.

Where these programs provide scientific papers to support their claims, I have found they provide no basis for purchasing that specific program. In some cases, the pseudo-scientific explanations are nonsensical.

Each person makes his or her own decisions. For these programs, buyer beware:

 

- The Road Back and TRB Health (overpriced supplements)

- TrueHope and EmpowerPlus an ordinary multivitamin, repackaged, plus relabeled and overpriced supplements
 
- NutraTek (another venture of David Hardy, former president of TrueHope)

- Point of Return and Label Me Sane (relabeled and overpriced supplements)

- The Amen Clinics, popularized by Dr. Daniel Amen, discussion here and here. The brain scans are very expensive, add radiation risk, and are not valid in diagnosis.

- Neuroscience neurotransmitter testing and supplements. Often prescribed by naturopaths and quite expensive, the neurotransmitter testing is invalid. See Dr. Andrew Weil on this type of testing. Results from Neuroscience testing are accompanied by recommendations for their expensive proprietary supplements, which are supposed to address the imbalances found in the testing.

- Any treatment that purports to balance neurotransmitters. Some "alternative" treatments are based on balancing neurotransmitters. The "chemical imbalance" theory is a fallacy in "alternative" treatments as much as it is in medicine.

If you are participating in these programs and like their products, you are welcome to participate here as well, and we will support your taper. However, if you wish to publicly discuss these programs with others, please go to the sites run by their respective companies.

You are free to discuss individual supplements, such as whey protein isolate, in our Symptoms and Self-care forum, where we have topics about herbs, supplements, alternative treatments, and psychotherapeutic techniques to aid withdrawal.

SurvivingAntidepressants.org is as skeptical of alternative remedies as any other treatment for withdrawal syndrome. Every "alternative" treatment for depression or mood or whatever, such as orthomolecular medicine, presumes you have a normal, intact nervous system.

"Alternative" treatments for depression do not account for nervous systems sensitized by withdrawal. Whatever claims they make for dramatic results are based on people who have relatively normal tolerances.

Psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome cannot be treated, with drugs or with alternative remedies, as though it were a relapse of normal depression or a so-called mood disorder. It is something else entirely, usually autonomic dysfunction.

If I find I can recommend any alternative treatments, I will, and I will encourage discussion about them.

Note: Chelation is irrelevant in treating withdrawal syndrome. It was developed to treat heavy metal poisoning. If you have withdrawal symptoms, heavy metal poisoning is not your main problem. Liver cleansing is unnecessary and stressful. If you have withdrawal symptoms, they are not due to the presence of the drug in your body, they are due to its absence.


Edited by Altostrata, 19 August 2015 - 03:52 PM.
updated

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#2 compsports

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:04 AM

Thank you Alto for this post. As one who admittedly fell big time for the Label Me Sane Claims, I couldn't agree more with what you say about alternative programs harping on our fears. Yes, I bear some responsibility and I am not shirking that. But to knowingly inflate claims and charge outrageous prices in order to prey on desperate people is contemptible. It is not just the commercial programs as many alternative providers do it also. When one had been recommended to me, I called the office to get a sense of whether they could help me or not. When the receptionist summarized my problem as one pertaining to a chemical imbalance, that told me everything I needed to know about how my problem would be treated. I didn't follow up. I am not against individual supplements as one who has taken many. But again, I wasted alot of money on trying many that turned out to be an exercise in futility. Then again, I haven't gotten sick in spite of suffering severe sleep issues so perhaps they helped in that regard. Who knows? Thank you for the good work you do in running this board. CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Diagnosed with sleep apnea 2012 and on pap machine

Dealing with protracted sleep issues


#3 Temperance

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:13 AM

This is interesting to hear. I've been trawling the net for something to knock my awful emotional and psychological disturbances on the head but as I mentioned before, only controlled doses of Medical Marijuana really helped me personally. I've had to stop treatment for legal reasons. I've been trying all sorts of other things and my friends are all recommending things which I feel obliged try. I'm been trying Omega oils, Lecithin, strong vit-b complex, hops valarian, passiflora, vervain and still can't manage without diazepam unfortunatly. I'm damned if I'll go back on SSRI's, not after being off for over a year now. My doc won't accept I'm still withdrawing which makes things even more nightmarish. I'm sure the Seroxat, Sertraline & Prozac have caused permanent damage. there is a defininte pattern to my disturbance. By evening I'm like almost normal. One site I found absoutely excellent is http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com and the page 'bad reaction to ssri' has some good advice. It mentions going into nature, staying away from emotionally charged situations, tv programs, or anything like that because the senses are so raw and mega-sensitive to noise, light atmospheres, you name it. I've spent most of the last year in bed with the curtains closed, cotton wool in my ears and a sleep mask on. Sometimes the process of waking up is like a shock to me every morning, it's like nothing I've ever had before. I was on Zyprexa for a time being told I was ill when it was the SSRI all the time, I'm sure they have damaged my sight and mind too. Someone recommended Jan de Vries. I'm reading one of his books and he sounds very empathetic. He also has a store selling remedies. I'm having to detox from poisoning from a ruptured silicone implant which ate a large area away of my chest and has spread throughout my body. Apparently this can cause peripheral nerve damage which leads to mood swings. I can't seem to find myself anymore. My mind is all over the place and time is passing so fast yet I feel like I've stopped. It's very hard to describe. Has anyone else had the sense of time having stopped? I also feel part of my mind has woken up after being asleep or in a trance for over a decade. It's really disturbing. If anyone comes up with a remedy that really works, I'd love to hear from them. As I said Medical MJ is the best I've come across, then Kratom seems to soothe my lacerated nerves but it may over stimulate some. I don't think there is any thing else I can think of. Kalms have been good, but the night time ones seem to give me bad dreams unless it's the Kratom or some ingrediant that doesn't suit me. At least with herbs they were not created by imperfect humans but God and not for profit but for good uses. God bless you all in your efforts to recover. Love is one of the best healer. Find someone who really loves and cares about you. If you can't, please feel free to get in touch. bye for now Temperance

#4 Altostrata

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:48 AM

Hi again, Temperance. You have a lot of good points. Please start a topic about yourself in the Introductions forum so we can get to know you.

Perhaps you can start topics in the Symptoms and what helps about those herbs and supplements? They sound interesting.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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#5 alexjuice

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:17 PM

I am happy to see survivingantidepressants.org take this position on supplement protocols. Alex.i

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman


#6 strawberry17

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

Just found this topic in a roundabout way. A few years back when I was really struggling with my Lustral (Zoloft) withdrawal I looked at some of these sites like The Roadback, but they were so expensive, and I didn't know but my gut feeling was that they might be preying on desperate people like myself, I couldn't understand why they had to be so damned expensive. In the end I settled for common sense, a good reasonably priced multivitamin, high EPA fish oils and a very long slow taper off liquid Prozac, oh and some exercise and a healthy diet.

*** Please note this is not medical advice,discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner***





http://prozacwithdrawal.blogspot.com/

Original drug was sertraline/Zoloft, switched to Prozac in 2007.

Tapering from 5mls liquid prozac since Feb 2008, got down to 0.85ml 23/09/2012, reinstated back to 1ml(4mg) 07/11/2012, didn't appear to work, upped to 1.05ml 17/11/2012, back down to 1ml 12/12/2012 didn't work, up to 1.30ml 16/3/2013 didn't work, bumped up to 2ml (8mg) 4/4/2013 didn't work, reinstated Sertraline (Zoloft) 50mg, feeling better now. Been on the antidepressant merry go round since November 1998.


#7 billy

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:46 PM

They claim JNK,Admax(for men),Omega3,Vitamin E,'Relax day' can be used successfully to feel better? Anyone know or tried this approach for surviving antidepressants? Pricy,but I know we are all pretty deserate to feel better.ANY FEEDBACK would be greatly appreciated.Opinions and facts welcome,but try to be non-discouraging unless for your certain either way.Thanks.

#8 jr1985

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:58 PM

They're considered a bit of a scam. See this thread http://survivinganti...ist-withdrawal/
2003-2005: Paroxetine
2006-2009: Citalopram
2009-2011: Effexor
Aug/Sept 11: Fast tapered Effexor to Mirtazapine
Oct: C/T Mirtazapine after bad reaction and back on Effexor
Nov/Dec: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell
5/2/12: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg
30/6/12: Dropped to 35.6mg

#9 Nikki

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:40 PM

So many of us can't take supplements while withdrawing. So I don't know if it would be safe to purchase the supplements they offer and not be able to take them.

There was someone on another board who purchased the Label Me Sane products and did well with them.

I spent tons of money on supplements and this time around I am not taking anything. My tolerance is low.

Intro: http://survivinganti...ndown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine


#10 GiaK

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 03:42 PM

these programs are shot-gun approaches that don't consider the individual and it's very hit and miss if they help...I'm also not at all convinced they really help at all... I think the people who perceive them to have helped a lot, simply didn't have terribly difficult withdrawals...I know plenty of folks who have gotten off drugs with very little problems at all....I think it's those people who think these programs are helpful. I've been in these circles for 8 years now (good god!!) and in watching literally thousands of people come off every class of psych med I can confidently say these programs do not help much if at all...while some of the supplements can be supporting of foundational health, but you can get them elsewhere for much much less.

Beyond Meds: http://beyondmeds.com/

I withdrew from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.

I took a bit over 6 years to do it. Finished on Feb 9 2010. I'm still recovering from iatrogenesis.


#11 Jemima

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 04:32 PM

I came across The Road Back site early on after I was off of Lexapro and suffering greatly from withdrawal. The most helpful thing for me was the free ebook they offer about withdrawal symptoms - big sigh of relief knowing that my experience was typical for a large minority of people getting off of SSRI antidepressants. In my opinion the supplements are overpriced, and as just about everyone on this forum would agree, supplements don't seem to help the withdrawal process along regardless of cost. Fish oil is reputed to help and seems to cause no harm, but I personally don't feel any better on or off of it. My advice is to download the ebook and read it, and ignore the advice about supplementation.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivinganti...oducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivinganti...r-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 


#12 Altostrata

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:54 PM

If this or any other supplement program worked, I would send everyone to that program and close up this site. billy, as we've discussed many times before, there is no easy solution to withdrawal syndrome. If you keep on looking for easy solutions, charlatans will take advantage of you.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#13 vaseadude

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:04 AM

I tried TRB supplements. I felt so bad that I couldnt get out of bed all day. I had to take those supplements off. To think back, my anxiety had worsened the first day I started the supplements, but I just thought I had a really stressed day. Now in hindsight Im pretty sure it was their supplements. I would not recommend based on my experience. Their chapter on withrawal effects is still helpful to me though.

2008 - started taking Risperidone.

In 2014 tried to taper it, taperred it to 1mg during several months then abruptly stopped, ended up in the hospital. 

2014-2015  -  been off meds 3 times, all 3 times ended in the hospital and was put back on them.

13 Jun 2016 - went  from 2 mg Risperidone to 1.5mg


#14 billy

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:57 AM

Well dispite the advice on here(which always seems to be negative by the way with not much positive advice other than "slow taper" might work,sorry)I purchaced most of the ingredients suggested from the book individually, and saved myself alot of money,AND am feeling incredible.Not in nine months have I felt this well,energetic and positive I am getting better.Now I'm starting to suspect that this sight isn't really here to help others,but to dis-courage others from recovering,maybe even put up for the purpose of advancing medication and a psychiatrist viewpoint to use reverse psycology to further their cause and confuse people that are already confused.I've posted many questions on here only to be met with-"well it's hard to say,everybody is different,the only way is to introduce more medication back into your body and slowly taper for years and years",and not a single testimony from a single person who succesfully recoverd and is living drug free.BUT WHO IS GOING TO LISTEN TO ME RIGHT? I'm just an ex-medication patient that is probably dillussional and parinoid!! LOL. Well I do know that our bodies become nutrient starved after psych medications,and the chemical inballance that happens makes more sense to me that to replenish oursleves with natural remedies can and do help.*SO INSTEAD OF TELLING ME WHAT NOT TO DO, START TELLING ME WHAT TO DO TO HELP ME GET OFF THIS CRAP ONCE AND FOR ALL, AND MAYBE THIS PRESUMPTION CAN BE REVERSED AND I WILL APPOLOGISE FOR MY ACCUSATIONS.Your not helping anyone by keeping them dependant on medication and your sight.

#15 GiaK

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 10:23 AM

Billy, it's true that people are individual...most of the people who come to this site are having a very hard time and need to be cautious...and we've learned it's best that everyone be aware of the dangers should they come up we all know people who don't have problems getting off drugs too...and who recover quickly and completely...I know 100s of people like that...there is no denial that that can happen too if you're feeling great we're happy for you...but no one has given bad information here...it's important to be aware of the many dangers for those of us who are most sensitive to withdrawal...be grateful you feel well...don't spit on us while we're still down though. I hope you continue feeling well. best to you.

Beyond Meds: http://beyondmeds.com/

I withdrew from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.

I took a bit over 6 years to do it. Finished on Feb 9 2010. I'm still recovering from iatrogenesis.


#16 Altostrata

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 10:24 AM

No problem, billy. If you don't wish to visit, don't do it. Good healing to you.
This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#17 ccb73

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 03:50 PM

Altostrata,

This is an old post but I'd like to ask about Hardy Essentials and other Hardy products.

My MD Psychiatrist, now practicing ND too, recommends them highly and also sells them.

He also likes 4:1 omega6 to omega3 BodyBio oils.

What do you think specifically about these products.

I must say, I'm starting to agree with you that withdrawal is a different and horrible beast.
Latest med schedule and withdrawal (05/17/17):
Seroquel On 125mg 10/28/16 (now, 125 mg)
Cymbalta On 27mg 10/28/16 (now, 27 mg)
Viibryd On 10mg 10/28/16 (now, 10 mg)
Klonopin On 2.5 Start 10/28/16 (now 1.5 night, 1 Morning)
Diovan 160mg On 10/28/16 (now 160mg)
Norvasc On 10mg 10/28/16 (now 0)

#18 scallywag

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:52 AM

Very very few people in the developed world need to supplement Omega 6 oils. We get more than we need from anything grain-based.

 

David Hardy is the same guy who was (still is?) behind True Hope. Products are unlikely to be much different.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#19 Altostrata

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 11:20 AM

What scallwag said.

 

I see the Hardy Nutritionals uses the same unconscionable exaggeration of efficacy and benefits that Truehope used.

 

If your doctor is selling this product line, he is getting a cut of the profits for exorbitantly marked-up supplements of dubious merit.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

#20 scallywag

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 08:14 AM

Admin note: Several posts were moved to the topic "The importance of MTHFR, methylation and B-vitamins." because the discussion shifted from being about a specific commercial product line to discussing the effect of the MTHFR genetic mutation.
 

The portions of the posts that are relevant to this discussion of commercial products are quoted below:

 

He sells it for same price I'd get it from Hardy directly!

I do think that the product is a superb multi, I just don't like the mental health claims, specifically when my doctor now thinks it has to work for withdrawal...


... content removed for relevance

 

Your doctor purchases those products at a discount and marks them up to sell to you.

Getting your nutrients from fresh fruits and vegetables is preferable to supplementation.

... content removed for relevance

 


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet