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Nicholas: Coming off Clozapine (Clozaril)


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#1 Nicholas

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 07:43 AM

What is the best approach in tapering off Clozapine (Clozaril)? Something like (day yes day no):

02/jan: -12,5mg => 437,5mg
03/jan: ------
04/jan: -12,5mg => 425mg
05/jan: ------
06/jan: -12,5mg => 412,5mg
07/jan: ------
08/jan: -12,5mg => 400mg
09/jan: ------
10/jan: -25mg => 375mg
11/jan: ------
12/jan: ------
13/jan: -25mg => 350mg
14/jan: ------
15/jan: ------
16/jan: -25mg => 325mg
17/jan: ------
18/jan: ------
19/jan: -25mg => 300mg

then day yes day no day no, until 0.

Or 10% dosage reduction each week?

Is it secure? alttomeds.com have a plan to host for 8 weeks average, into coming off psych drugs. I food myself very good, I am frugivorous, don't take coffee, don't drink or smoke.

Is OK this reduction? What about permanent rebound, permanent psychosis? I already took Geodon Ziprazidone and withdrawal in 2 or 3 weeks, without collateral effects, only insomnia. Is Ziprazidone as Clozapine? Please, help me. Thank you.



#2 scallywag

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 04:46 PM

Nicholas -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)
 
The taper plan you are proposing is likely to create withdrawal symptoms. Even though you've had no problems  or symptoms for a limited period with previous drug tapers, there are no guarantees that the next time you reduce or discontinue a medication will be as easy. In fact, each time you discontinue a medication, the likelihood of experience withdrawal symptoms increases. To minimize the risk of withdrawal symptoms occurring, we suggest that people reduce dose by no more than 10% every 4 weeks.  For you this would look like
Jan. 2 405 mg
Jan. 30 365 mg
Feb. 27 328 mg.

You can read more about this in these topics:
Before you begin tapering -- what you need to know
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?


A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-18 months particularly?

  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
  • Please use words or abbreviations for the month; 12/1 could be December 1 or January 12.
  • Any drugs prior to 18 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
  • You don't need to include symptoms or diagnoses other than the initial condition that led to prescribing the first drug.
  • We ask for this information in your signature so that we can see it at a glance. A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
  • You can find instructions in this topic: Please put your withdrawal history in signature
  • If you are using a phone or mobile device, you need to switch to the "full" or desktop version of the site. Instructions are in Post 8 and Post 9

Please read the topics I've linked and post your medication history in a signature. I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#3 Nicholas

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 04:08 AM

I'm diagnosed schizoprenic. I was internee most part of 2016. In February, July, August to November (3 times). I didn't agree with my 2 last hospitalizations. In July I was listening voices, while I was running I shouted. My mother listened and called my family to come home. I remembered the time all my family was gathered, in one of the first hospitalizations, when I was tied, I got scared with this memory and hit my father. The fear made my hit my father. This in July.

 

In August I stopped the medication again and went very excited, writing in Twitter all I was feeling, even when bathing. My keyboard notebook stopped working with the water, on an impulse I threw it in the ground. Same thing, my mother called cops this time and sent me to hospitalization. This time they gave me Clozapine. I already take all remedies and take off: Risperidone, Seroquel, Olanzapine, Quetiapine, Ziprazidone, Haloperidol. All these were reducted in minimal dosage day yes day no.

I made a combination with my mother, I going reduce 12,5mg day yes day no, until 400mg. Observe one week, then 25mg day yes day no day no day no, like:

 

02/jan: -12,5mg => 437,5mg
03/jan: ------
04/jan: -12,5mg => 425mg
05/jan: ------
06/jan: -12,5mg => 412,5mg
07/jan: ------
08/jan: -12,5mg => 400mg

Wait one week

 

15/jan: -25mg => 375mg

16/jan: -----

17/jan: -----

18/jan: -----

19/jan; -25mg => 350mg

 

until 300mg, than observe again. It is going to be very difficult to stop, as I will have to go along with my doctor. Did you saw comingoff.com site telling about weekly 10% reduction? http://www.comingoff.com/plan.phpThere is drugs.com too https://www.drugs.co...e/clozaril.html .

 

This small reduction isn't going to harm me, right? I'm a little scared.



#4 Nicholas

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 04:20 AM

Rufus http://rufusmay.com/said to me, about the reduction approach:

 

"Sounds like a very gradual and seady reduction which seems wise to me.

Are your health workers supporting you with this?

Noone can say what the long term effects wll be until you try but I doubt there will be any permanent withdrawal problems"



#5 Nicholas

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 04:22 AM

Will Hall talks about 10% reduction over 2 weeks. http://www.willhall....de2Edonline.pdf



#6 scallywag

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:25 AM

We espouse a more conservative taper than 10% dose reductions every 14 days. Until you know how your CNS (central nervous system) responds to dose reductions, it's wise to take things slowly.
 
One member tapering an "anti-psychotic" drug has posted that she doesn't get symptoms until the end of the 2nd week or into the 3rd week after a reduction. Other members have had extremely negative experiences with tapering "anti-psychotics" too quickly: everything was fine with a rapid taper until "overnight" they got absolutely SLAMMED with severe symptoms.
 
To understand more about what happens in your CNS during tapering, please look at the information at these links:
One theory of anti-depressant withdrawal syndrome
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"
Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants
JanCarol - an analogy for tapering

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#7 nz11

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 03:04 PM

Will Hall talks about 10% reduction over 2 weeks. http://www.willhall....de2Edonline.pdf

This site is aware of this guide and also has a link to it.

imo it is one of the best out there.

However for many people this approach is still too aggressive. This guide even alludes to this  fact on page 35, "You may want to start with an even smaller dose reduction and then stay there for a while" ..."Some people take years to come off successfully" "Be flexible..."

In fact the guide says "2-3 weeks or longer"

Unfortunately this guide talks about reductions based on original dose and half the original dose (when you arrive there) but evidence exists to support the notion  we are not talking about a straight line hybrid function. Sa operates on reductions based on % of previous dose...each consecutive drop is smaller than the previous one.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11