Tolerance or "poop-out" or Tachyphylaxis

[Petunia]

At the moment, I think its impossible for anyone to know what's happening when the drug stops 'working' because we don't even know everything its doing while it still is working.

 

To further complicate the issue, these drugs effect different people in different ways.... side effects, personality changes, usefulness, effects on stopping.

 

The word tolerance may be appropriate, but not withdrawal, not if the drug isn't being decreased. To me, withdrawal is what happens when the body has to start adapting itself to functioning in the absence of a substance it had become accustomed to. Any new unwanted effects which arise when the drug is no longer providing beneficial effects at the current or increased dose are not withdrawal symptoms, but new effects which have developed over time caused by ongoing exposure to a toxic substance, either that or its no longer doing such a good job at disabling emotions any more and some of the unpleasant ones are coming back to annoy us.

 

I actually prefer 'poop-out' because it sounds as silly as believing these drugs were actually curing something in the first place

 

 Is it just that they really don't work to begin with, because the problem isn't caused by low serotonin?

 

I guess that depends on what the underlying problem really is, my guess is that most of the symptoms which get diagnosed as anxiety and or depression are caused by previous, unrecognized childhood trauma, having developed self-defeating ways of thinking and behaving in life or current, ongoing stress.... maybe a combination.

 

In the case of a diagnosis after the loss of a loved one or another kind of loss, really, its a normal human reaction to feel sad, and anxious about what the future may hold.... does this mean we have an illness?  That somehow our brain stopped working properly and was no longer able to produce the correct balance of chemicals? I would think it was producing the appropriate balance of chemicals for the situation, to enable us to go through a grief process, adapt to the loss or make the changes we need to make. 

 

But this is inconvenient, so taking a pill which effects our brain in mostly unknown ways sometimes makes the bad feelings go away for a while, for some people, some of the time.... does that mean we had low serotonin? Maybe, it depends on the time of the day and what we were doing at that particular time, I don't know and neither does anyone else. According to some research, some people with depression have high serotonin. But seeing as you can't measure serotonin in a living brain, I don't know how they knew that.

 

I understand your frustration SG, I used to spend a lot of time speculating about brain chemistry, trying to figure out what was going on up there so I could have some control over it... but that's what got most of us into trouble in the first place.

 

Also see:  Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please ...

[SquirrellyGirl]

I've been reading Antatomy of an Epidemic, and was astonished to learn that only 1/3 of people with depression had low serotonin, but also 1/3 or so had HIGH serotonin!  More astonishing was to learn that the control group, healthy people, also had 1/3 low, 1/3 high, and 1/3 in the middle! Good ol' bell shaped curve!  So, you can't even infer that low serotonin caused the depression in the low group, because it didn't cause it in the normal low group!  But the drug companies cherry pick what they want from these studies and make something out of nothing.

 

Given the article I just read by Robert Whitaker (ok, it was from 2011 but I'm slow to get caught up!  https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201106/now-antidepressant-induced-chronic-depression-has-name-tardive-dysphoria),the process of ADs working but then symptoms re-emerging seems to be a phenomenon of chronic AD use, and so "iatrogenic," caused by the drugs.  It would seem, then, that the chronic use causes our systems to push back so hard by dropping serotonin production and pruning back receptors as to become insensitive to serotonin, no matter how much is around.  Much like insulin resistance, but in this case the drugs CAUSED the problem and can no longer be looked at as the "cure."  

 

I hesitate to bring insulin and diabetes into the discussion, because we are trying to debunk the notion that these drugs are like insulin to a diabetic.  Insulin does not cause the diabetes!  Also, it is possible to reduce the need for insulin and even the need for the drugs that help control diabetes by losing weight, eating the right kinds of foods,exercising, etc.  Many a diabetic have been able to dispense with the drugs and insulin by adopting these strategies, in essence helping their body become sensitive to insulin again.  

 

And so I believe it is possible for us to wake our nervous system up to produce more serotonin and add receptors to become sensitive to it again, through very slow tapering.  I wish El-Mallakh, Andrews and the rest would look at how the coming off affects the nervous system, slow versus cold turkey for instance.  Of course, there isn't any money in that.  However, what has happened to us is epidemic, and with doctors doing depression screens at every visit and putting more and more people on these drugs, these studies may end up being done out of necessity as more and more people sign on for disability!

 

SG

[Susanne]

I've been reading this thread, trying to understand about poop-out.
Can't really work my head around what actually happened to me in the last year. I don't know -at this moment- if it's important for me to know every thing about it. I'm not a doctor or a scientist.
It might be that i just want to tell some one my frustration about it, because it doesn't seem any doctor or therapist has the answer. And the people on SA can't look into my brain...but still, it might help if I just write it down. 

In 2008 I started with a dose low dose of Luvox. It worked well for my intrusive thought. The thought has its origins in panic attacks. I was in therapy for a few years already but never dared to try medication. My psychotherapist advised me to combine therapy and an SSRI.
I didn't actually taper gradually in 2009/2010. The Luvox 'fixed' me and after a while I just thougt I didn't need it anymore. One day I forgot to pick up a prescription and nothing bad happened. So from that day I just took my dose every other day and then stopped. My life was wonderful, felt really free.

I suddenly relapsed in 2010 and went to see my doctor again. Again medication, but 9 weeks of Luvox and no improvement. I felt more depressed because it wasn't working for me like the first time. I just wanted it to work so badly!
My doctor advised to switch to another drug and we picked Lexapro as a good candidate.
After 3 weeks it started working. My intrusive thought went away again. 

In the past 6 years I took my medication every day. I slowly tapered from 20 mg to 5 mg. Didn't use the 10% taper schedule. Didn't know anything about withdrawal and no therapists or doctors advised me to taper. I just figured I could lower my dose every year and the last two years I took 5 mg. I do have to mention that I had a rough year, a lot of stress on work as well as personal stuff, but it didn't have anything to do with OCD.
Then...two months ago, I thought it was a good idea to take 5 mg every other day. I figured I was supplying my brain with 2,5 mg per day. I've read somewhere that this was a good way of getting off these kind of medications. 

May 2016: mild panic, suddenly. I was having the same intrusive thought again and it didn't go away! Couldn't focus, got scared. "Oh no it's back!"

No one to consult about it. My general doctor on vacation and I wasn't in therapy. I updosed to 10 and then 15 mg but after 4, 5 weeks nothing changed.
Trying to figure out what actually happened and can't find another explanation then: my brain isn't sensitive anymore for this drug. A poop-out?

Began to research this and at the same time: "Stupid Lexapro not working, what to do next?"
I got frustrated and want to 'reset'.

My fear is: as long as I'm on the drug my own brain can't reset. That's probably a wrong assumption, but I just can't figure out how it works.
In other words: Can I make my brain sensitive again when still on this (low) dose? I want to work on it from the inside instead of letting an SSRI do the work for me. I do want to taper very slow because I know now it is better not to risk any WD symptoms.

Any thoughts? Thanks!


 

[Altostrata]

Susanne, people often come here having tried to go off drugs by skipping doses. This can trigger terrible withdrawal symptoms.

 

That is what happened to you when you got "mild panic." It might also have triggered your earlier habit of intrusive thoughts.

 

These drugs have fairly short half-lives, less than a day. When you skip doses, the amount in your bloodstream goes up and down. This is destabilizing to your nervous system.

 

Withdrawal symptoms are signals from your nervous system that something is not right.

 

Let's talk more about your particular situation in your Intro topic Susanne: from the Netherlands, tapering and feeling :-(

[Susanne]

Thank you Altostrata. Your reply was actually really useful. I've posted my last question in my intro topic as well.

[wantrelief]

Hello all,

 

I am not sure this is the right place to ask this question but it is in regards to tolerance so I thought it pertained.  Feel free to move it to my individual thread if that would be more appropriate.

 

My question is what happens if someone is in tolerance  - so experiencing withdrawal like symptoms because the drug isn't working for them anymore and they cannot stabilize at a higher dose?  Mostly I am wondering if it is possible to taper when you are really unstable - someone in tolerance would have to be in this position, yes?  Is it even feasible to try doing this when not stable?  Would symptoms just worsen if a cut is made?  Just thinking ahead as I may be in a tolerance situation and am thinking through my options.  I am not sure I've read about anyone on here who was in a really unstable place when they started tapering but maybe there is an example out there.....

[Altostrata]

This depends what you mean by "unstable." Your Intro topic is probably the best place for that discussion.

[wantrelief]

Thanks, Alto - I will pose the question in my topic.

[reachingforthestars]

I'm wondering is "poop out" similar to "adverse reaction to AD"? Is the result in both cases the same--> brain downregulates the serotonin receptors? 

[brassmonkey]

They're actually two very distinctly different things.  An adverse reaction is a very rapid onset of acute side effects caused by an increase or reinstatement of dosage.  Where as poopout or tolerance is the slow loss of effectiveness that precipitates the onset of WD symptoms while maintaining a steady dose.

[reachingforthestars]

They're actually two very distinctly different things.  An adverse reaction is a very rapid onset of acute side effects caused by an increase or reinstatement of dosage.  Where as poopout or tolerance is the slow loss of effectiveness that precipitates the onset of WD symptoms while maintaining a steady dose.

 

 Hi Brassmonkey

 

I was just thinking that maybe in both cases the result is the same-->downregulation of the serotonin reseptors. but in an adverse reaction due to flooding with ssri it only happens faster? Or i guess nobody knows what is really happening in the brain in an adverse reaction...

[brassmonkey]

"Or i guess nobody knows what is really happening in the brain in an adverse reaction..."

 

That's pretty much it. Even Big Pharma will admit that they have no idea how these drugs actually work. There are so many interrelationships and systems within the body that get affected and many of those systems etc we still don't even understand.  We make educated guesses about receptor occupancy, cortisol spikes, akathesia, and the like, but it's all based on what we've seen and experienced with working with several thousand people, not on hard scientific knowledge.  One of the hardest questions we get here is "why is YYY happening".  WE don't know, we've seen it before and trying this XXXX usually helps, but there's a chance the OOO might happen instead.

[Mellie]

Anyone know how to distinguish between amotivational syndrome while on SSRIs vs. poop out—especially in atypical depression?

 

I've always suffered from atypical depression, with fatigue and loss of motivation being key symptoms during depression episodes. SSRIs helped even me out emotionally, but they never did much for my energy levels which was always my main complaint (and in fact, looking back, I think they contributed to my fatigue and lack of vitality).

 

Now I'm considering the last 3 or so years I was on Prozac. I came off it mainly because I wanted to get pregnant, but also I knew the pills simply weren't helping me. I work from home, and was doing all of it from bed. I had no motivation to pursue creative hobbies that I used to love or to get out with friends. Plus, I had zero energy. I let my house get out of control. I just didn't seem to care about anything—even my career, despite the fact that I've always been ambitious. I wasn't depressed. There were no feelings of hopelessness or sadness. Nothing really bothered me. My husband said it felt like I was in my own closed off dream world.

 

Now that I'm dealing with withdrawal, it's the complete opposite. Before, I didn't have a care in the world (although I should have), and now I'm anxious about everything! It's like I'm finally awake to my life, but now I'm overreacting to everything to the point that I'm such a mess I can't do anything constructive!

 

I think what I experienced on the last years on the meds sounds like amotivational syndrome. But some of the symptoms of that overlap with atypical depression. So is it possible that, instead, I was suffering from SSRI tolerance or poop-out?

 

How do I tell the difference? I wonder, because amotivational syndrome is supposed to go away when you take away the drug. But if it was due to poop-out, I'm wondering how that might effect what I can expect in withdrawal. 

[Survivor1]

Hello,

 

I am looking for some success stories from those who have tapered successfully especially after having kindled.  I suspect that I am supersensitive to drops because of too fast tapers and cold turkeys.  I am having some anxiety from even thinking about tapering and the years it would take me to get off the drugs I'm on.

 

Anyone's experience is much appreciated.

[Happy2Heal]

Hello,

 

I am looking for some success stories from those who have tapered successfully especially after having kindled.  I suspect that I am supersensitive to drops because of too fast tapers and cold turkeys.  I am having some anxiety from even thinking about tapering and the years it would take me to get off the drugs I'm on.

 

Anyone's experience is much appreciated.

 

 

hi,

I don't know for sure if I've "kindled" but if that's what happens when you are off and on these meds many different times, including several CT's, then I guess this applies to me.

 

I am currently trying to taper off of lexapro after being on it (and off it ) since 2002. My dose has been up and down and all over the place since first starting on it.

 

I've tried to go off using a too fast taper (the one the drs tell you to do, cut the dose in half, then half again, then do every other day at a still too high dose)

I started to taper in June 2015, and did just that, cut by half, til I got to 2.5mgs in Dec 2105

That is when I found this forum and learned about proper tapering.

 

I still didn't fully appreciate the wisdom of actually doing a slow taper, and after holding at 2/5mgs til May 2106, I ended up jumping off at that dose.

I had a bad summer, but not horrible; I got thru it not even realizing that the issues I was having were WD symptoms. However in late Aug, additional symptoms popped up and by late Sept I was in acute WD and suffering greatly.

I reluctantly reinstated at a very TINY dose of the liquid lexapro, starting at just 1/20 of a mg! but over the course of a couple of weeks, I up-dosed to where I am now, at 0.3mgs per day

I plan to stay at this dose for some time, to stabilize.

I am still having waves, some of them just awful, but over all, each day has been better than the one before. Until recently, anyway, I feel like I've hit a plateau, now, and have what I've heard others call "withdrawal normal"

Compared to where I was a few months ago, this WD normal is equal to windows for me. I'm not "normal" in that I'm not off the lexapro completely, but I'm in a fairly decent place.

 

I'm sure I could have saved myself from a LOT of the suffering I went thru by doing a really good, SLOW taper.

 

I know it's scary to look at the time it can take, but there are several ppl on this forum who are going slowly and taking their time, and overall, they appear to have the fewest problems/symptoms.

So don't be scared of how long it will take, just think about taking care of your body and brain by giving it the time it NEEDS to heal.

 

for us, that is the biggest healer, TIME. if you go very slowly, I have no doubt you'll succeed and do just fine.

 

I hope this helps some.

[Survivor1]

Hello Catnapt,

 

I am very grateful for your response.  I do have to work on getting over how long it will take/drugs pooping out on me and concentrate on taking care of my body.  

 

I wish you the best on your journey also.

 

Cheers!

[Bluebird2009]

Altostrata are you fully healed now?

[dante]

From: verywell.com

 

What is "Prozac poop-out"? If it seems like your Prozac (or another SSRI such as Zoloft, Paxil, or Celexa) stopped working, why might that be, and what can you do?

What Exactly is Prozac Poop-Out?

When we talk about the phenomenon of Prozac (fluoxetine) poop-out, what we mean is that a person's antidepressant has simply stopped working as well as it once did, causing a relapse of depression symptoms.

Although this phenomenon is most commonly referred to as "Prozac poop-out," it can actually occur with any SSRI. An selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor or SSRI is a type of antidepressant medication which is able to prevent nerve cells from taking back up a mood-regulating neurotransmitter called serotonin.  This allows more serotonin to be available in the spaces between nerve cells where it can be used, possibly helping depression.

Other SSRI's which may cause Prozac poop-out include:

• Zoloft (sertraline)
• Paxil (paroxetine)
• Celexa (citalopram)
• Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

To read the rest of the article, click on this link to the source web page:

https://www.verywell.com/what-is-prozac-poop-out-1067022

.

Edited June 11, 2017 by scallywag
add link to webpage that is the likely source; remove some of the content

[Kozak70]

i m kindled too since 2012 when i reinstated fluoxetine after i was clean of it for 10 months i did not knew that it was a big mistake to do reinstate ,now i m trying to come off of lexapro by titration mode 5 mg in 100ml then i use a gradual syringe and discarts only 5% every 2weeks.i hope that i will arrive one day.

[Yesyes123]

@ChessieCatpointed out a relation between feeling better immediately after lowering the dose and tolerance.

 

How can it be that a person will feel better after a dose reduction if they have reached tolerance? Wouldn't they need more of the drug in order to get that mood improvement?

 

Or is it a paradoxical effect, like when a person will CT and feel great for a while (maybe even manic) before crashing into severe WD?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Here is another post written by Brassmonkey who experienced tolerance.  It's a fairly detailed post answer another member's question:

 

☼-brassmonkey-talking-about-myself

 

[Yesyes123]

21 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Here is another post written by Brassmonkey who experienced tolerance.  It's a fairly detailed post answer another member's question:

 

☼-brassmonkey-talking-about-myself

 

That is very helpful, thank you.

 

I was in 10mg escitalopram for 5 years and never had problems with tolerance or anything - I had no problems at all for that matter, I just decided I wanted to get off the drug, and after fast tapering was when I found out about the whole thing... and about 3 months later found SA.

 

If I understand correctly, from what you said, it seems you are suggesting I had hit tolerance and that may be the reason why I feel better after a dose decrease?

 

I have only been on 15mg for about 5 months, and as I said prior to that was on 10mg for 5 years and never had problems with tolerance...

 

I doubt it could be tolerance in this scenario? 

 

Thinking back, I only got to severe withdrawal symptoms/ problems around the time of reinstating and upping to 15mg, which obviously is a huge mistake on the psychiatrist part. It's exactly the definition of "kindling".

 

 

I had no clue about SA or anything at the time. 

 

I think 15mg is too much of a high dose for me, and that is what caused most of my problems... so lowering it gives me relief. That's what I'm thinking.

 

@ChessieCat if this is not pertinent to the thread, I can continue on my introduction, but I think this information is valuable to others..

[ChessieCat]

Tolerance comes on gradually.

 

I think you've answered your own question.  Reinstating too high a dose:

 

On 10/9/2012 at 10:17 AM, Altostrata said:

Avoid kindling, start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find some relief from withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 0.5mg-1mg for 20mg citalopram, for example. Do not start at a high dose, your nervous system may be sensitized by withdrawal and you may your symptoms much worse, which is called kindling

 

 

[Yesyes123]

14 hours ago, Yesyes123 said:

How can it be that a person will feel better after a dose reduction if they have reached tolerance? Wouldn't they need more of the drug in order to get that mood improvement?

 

Thank you for the continuous support @ChessieCat... I'm sorry, but I still can't wrap my mind around this that I wrote above... are there any links that might help me understand it?

[brassmonkey]

If you haven't read it yet, take a look at this post:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23081-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-492496

 

[Yesyes123]

18 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

If you haven't read it yet, take a look at this post:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23081-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-492496

 

Thank you very much.

 

I don't think I have developed tolerance because I have been on the drug for 5 years with no issue at all and only 5 months at this higher dosage.

 

When I did a 10% dose decrease from 15mg to 13.5mg, I felt much better. I honestly think that I'm at a dose that is too high for me and lowering it gradually will bring me relief. 

[brassmonkey]

I think you're on the right track.

[Finnishgirl]

Tapering out of tolerance/poop out, postive experiences?

 

I would like to hear positive experiences from people who are tapering / have tapered out of poop out / tolerance. My depression started as a withdrawal symptom from ssri (never had had depression before). After that nothing has helped to stabilized the situation. I think this is some kind of tolerance/poop-out. I would like to hear from people that have had success with tapering out of tolerance. @brassmonkey? Any other people? 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by manymoretodays
merged to similar topic, title added and bolded

[manymoretodays]

Hi there Finnishgirl,

I added your topic here to a similar topic, and so we can see if others comment with positive spins to their tapering after reaching tolerance with their drug(s).

I'll check your Introduction topic too, and add it there if it is not there already.......your topic idea and subject.

8 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

Tapering out of tolerance/poop out, postive experiences?

 

I would like to hear positive experiences from people who are tapering / have tapered out of poop out / tolerance. My depression started as a withdrawal symptom from ssri (never had had depression before). After that nothing has helped to stabilized the situation. I think this is some kind of tolerance/poop-out. I would like to hear from people that have had success with tapering out of tolerance. @brassmonkey? Any other people? 

 

 

You'll just see it quoted there again too.

 

Good topic.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

[wantrelief]

16 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

I would like to hear positive experiences from people who are tapering / have tapered out of poop out / tolerance. My depression started as a withdrawal symptom from ssri (never had had depression before). After that nothing has helped to stabilized the situation. I think this is some kind of tolerance/poop-out. I would like to hear from people that have had success with tapering out of tolerance.

Hello Finnishgirl,

 

I can't say I am a success yet as I am still in the process of tapering but I think I may fit the description you are looking for.  I also had depression, amongst other symptoms, start while on a SSRI (citalopram) after a stressful situation occurred at work.  I tried updosing and waited a few months to stabilize but never did.  So I started slowly tapering down and eventually the withdrawal symptoms went away.  I am now feeling well and continuing my taper.  I have a long way to still go and also have to eventually taper clonazepam but I hope my story brings you some hope that things can feel better when you are in a tolerance situation.

 

Best wishes, 

WR

[Finnishgirl]

5 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Hello Finnishgirl,

 

I can't say I am a success yet as I am still in the process of tapering but I think I may fit the description you are looking for.  I also had depression, amongst other symptoms, start while on a SSRI (citalopram) after a stressful situation occurred at work.  I tried updosing and waited a few months to stabilize but never did.  So I started slowly tapering down and eventually the withdrawal symptoms went away.  I am now feeling well and continuing my taper.  I have a long way to still go and also have to eventually taper clonazepam but I hope my story brings you some hope that things can feel better when you are in a tolerance situation.

 

Best wishes, 

WR

 

Hi WR! 

 

Extremely encouraging to hear! 😊 At which point did you start noticing that you feel better? Have you made some other changes on your life? I can see from your signature that you also went up and down and switching meds quite a lot. I wonder if this somehow predisposes you to hit tolerance. I think the same happened to me when I quit (or tried quitting) meds for two pregnancies.

 

It is quite scary to start tapering when you already feel bad in the beginning. That is why I am trying to hear positive stories. Not easy to be mother of two little boys in this situation. 

 

What were you prescribed ssri's in the first place?

 

Best, FG

[wantrelief]

Hi @Finnishgirl!

 

6 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

Extremely encouraging to hear! 😊

Oh good - I am so glad my story brought you some encouragement as that was what I was hoping.  🙂

 

6 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

At which point did you start noticing that you feel better? 

I started to feel better after tapering very slowly for 3.5 years.  I know that part may not sound so encouraging.  

 

6 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

Have you made some other changes on your life?

I did try all sorts of ways to cope, changing my thoughts (CBT), meditation, breathing, etc. but nothing out of the ordinary. At the point I started to feel better I wasn't doing anything differently so that is also a hopeful part of my story - you really just have to keep going and things will change.

 

6 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

I can see from your signature that you also went up and down and switching meds quite a lot. I wonder if this somehow predisposes you to hit tolerance.

This is an interesting hypothesis and one I wonder about too.  I think I kind of "burned my brain out" (it is the only way I can think to describe it) from going up and down so much on these drugs.

 

6 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

What were you prescribed ssri's in the first place?

I was in an extremely stressful graduate program at the time and having trouble coping.  I actually went to a doctor at my school and asked to start an antidepressant (one my sister had done well with, Cymbalta).

 

6 hours ago, Finnishgirl said:

It is quite scary to start tapering when you already feel bad in the beginning. That is why I am trying to hear positive stories. Not easy to be mother of two little boys in this situation. 

It really really is and that is why I wanted to reach out to you with a positive story of how awful you can feel at the beginning of tapering and how it can turn around (hopefully this will stay this way for me but I don't know).

 

I don't have small children so can only imagine the stress of parenting on top of feeling so unwell.  My heart goes out to you.  Please know no matter how hard things are at the moment that they will get better and those little guys need you in their lives.

 

Stay strong, FG

WR 💖

[Finnishgirl]

17 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Hi @Finnishgirl!

 

Oh good - I am so glad my story brought you some encouragement as that was what I was hoping.  🙂

 

I started to feel better after tapering very slowly for 3.5 years.  I know that part may not sound so encouraging.  

 

Yes it's a long wait but so worth it.  Around what dose were you on  when it started to get easier?

 

 

17 hours ago, wantrelief said:

 

I did try all sorts of ways to cope, changing my thoughts (CBT), meditation, breathing, etc. but nothing out of the ordinary. At the point I started to feel better I wasn't doing anything differently so that is also a hopeful part of my story - you really just have to keep going and things will change.

 

This is an interesting hypothesis and one I wonder about too.  I think I kind of "burned my brain out" (it is the only way I can think to describe it) from going up and down so much on these drugs.

 

I was in an extremely stressful graduate program at the time and having trouble coping.  I actually went to a doctor at my school and asked to start an antidepressant (one my sister had done well with, Cymbalta).

 

Okay, it sounds like you also have the same sitatuation that in the long term things only became worse on the drugs. In the hindsight I wish I never went on the drugs since there are good ways to manage OCDD without them. Ofcourse, I did not know ANYTHING about the problems and risks of drugs then since nobody told me and I trusted doctors. 

 

 

17 hours ago, wantrelief said:

 

It really really is and that is why I wanted to reach out to you with a positive story of how awful you can feel at the beginning of tapering and how it can turn around (hopefully this will stay this way for me but I don't know).

 

I don't have small children so can only imagine the stress of parenting on top of feeling so unwell.  My heart goes out to you.  Please know no matter how hard things are at the moment that they will get better and those little guys need you in their lives.

Thank you so much, I started crying (in a good way) to this ❤️ This is so important to hear and I do believe you that things can start to get better while just slowly slowly tapering down.  

 

 

17 hours ago, wantrelief said:

 

Stay strong, FG

WR 💖

 

Thank you ❤️ And all the best for you too!

[Altostrata]

See Admin Note added to the first post in this topic.

 

@Finnishgirl sounds like she had withdrawal syndrome, not poop-out or tachyphylaxis. We often see that people with withdrawal syndrome have adverse reactions or no benefit from subsequent drugs. This probably is a hyper-sensitivity reaction, not poop-out of the drug.

 

Finnishgirl's situation is discussed further here:

 

[Altostrata]

You may be feeling anxiety now because you need to learn methods to manage your pre-existing tendency to anxiety.

 

If you think antidepressants were effective for controlling your anxiety, you might want to go back on them for that reason. 

 

We have discussed other potential reasons for your symptoms in your Introductions topic. You may be incorrectly attributing "instability" to your antidepressant status. Please post further questions about your own personal situation in your Introductions topic.

 

[ryan1982]

How is the recurrence of anxiety any different than the recurrence of depression? That’s why I asked the question. It’s unfortunate that I feel I can’t post a question without it always being a “me” problem.