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CYP Testing to Help Prevent Dangerous Adverse Drug Reactions

Mad in America cytochrome P450 poor metabolizers ultra-rapid metabolizers extensive metabolizers intermediate metabolizers antidepressants Celexa Remeron Cymbalta

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#1 UnfoldingSky

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:31 PM

In-depth article about how genetics informs how you process drugs, and also how it affects drug interactions, and the genetic tests used to determine if you will likely react badly to a drug or not.  It's written by a forensic medical examiner.  I've only skimmed it but seems well worth a read through.

 

https://www.madiname...drug-reactions/

 

 CYP Testing to Help Prevent Dangerous Adverse Drug Reactions

 

 

January 24, 2017

 

Readers of this website might be aware that antidepressants can cause suicide, other violent behavior and even homicide. These can be side effects or adverse drug reactions from the medication taken. Not only can antidepressants cause these side effects, but basically every psychoactive medication can put patients at risk. Few people may know that there are DNA tests that can identify individuals who might be prone to these adverse drug reactions.1

 

To understand what kind of information such a test would provide, it might be helpful to explain the science behind these DNA tests.

 

In general, human cells contain 23 pairs of chromosomes. The father donates half of the chromosomes; the other half comes from the mother. Every chromosome contains many genes. A gene is the part of the DNA that codes for proteins, and proteins cause hereditary characteristics to be expressed. A gene can have two forms, called alleles. If someone inherits the same allele from the father and the mother, the person is called homozygous for that trait; if they are different, the person is heterozygous.

 

Medication needs to be metabolized to be expelled from the body. This is done by certain proteins called enzymes. Most medications that interact with brain chemistry are metabolized by an enzyme system called Cytochrome P450 (also known as CYP450 or P450). There are many different P450 enzymes, and they are divided into families and subfamilies. Cytochrome P450 family names are denoted by an Arabic number (e.g., CYP2), the subfamily by a Roman uppercase letter (e.g., CYP2D), and the individual enzymes by another Arabic number (e.g., CYP2D6). The alleles are indicated with an asterisk and a number, separated by a forward slash.

 

More at above link...

 

 

 


Partly recovered from AD withdrawal/reactions as well as issues with other psych drugs.  Also, I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions. Also due to the withdrawal/reactions I have had I may at times have cognitive problems so please keep this in mind when reading my posts (also please note, these issues are improving as I recover).

 


#2 nz11

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:20 PM

Thanks for posting US

 

"Within minutes, a doctor can get a clear indication whether the medication he or she is about to prescribe can be a danger to the patient. If those extra minutes can save a patient’s life, they are well spent."

 

Personally i would have thought all these so called medications are dangerous.

Dangerous to start and even more dangerous to stop regardless of what cyp one has or doesnt have.

Is wdl a serious adverse drug reaction? Its a serious adverse event right?


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#3 LexAnger

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 11:26 PM

In clinical trials, the adverse events are defined as any undesired effects started AFTER first dose of the investigational drug, and within 30 days AFTER the last dose of the drug. But sometimes the 30 day is not added into the period, instead only the day of the last dose.

Majority of the SSirs were tested in trials with only 8-12 weeks treatment period, so the adverse events collected and reported are those occurd during those few weeks only. While withdrawl usually starts some days/weeks AFTER the last dose so most of those were not reported, as for the immediate drug reaction, those should be collected and reported.

The post market adverse events are supposedly reported if they are serious, and reporting is solely based on patients and/or doctors. I doubt many ( even the ones in this forum with most severe and serious events) ever report.

Drug companies are required to update the drug insert/labeling from the post market reported serious adverse events. That's all.
<p>2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg, first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, slight improvement with pain2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR2016 Feb., started fast taper for the drug toxicity caused by the one dose of 4.2mg, dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, sliding Down to 0.13mg by 2/13, then 0.07mg since 2/18, 0.06mg 2/20-3/17, 0.13mg 3/18

#4 nz11

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:01 AM

Wow thats a fantastic post Lex.

Thankyou for that information.

No wonder the drug companies have got away with murder we all know the wdl can be delayed for a month or two or three.

Yet after 30 days the drug gets off the hook. That is criminal.

 

You are right about doctors not reporting i mean why would they there is no incentive too admit they had harmed  a patient.

In fact i know this is true cos i requested my ex doctor file an adverse events report and he refused.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#5 LexAnger

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:25 AM

Some ppl reported, and how the black box warnings were added to these drugs insert.

What really should be added to the psych drug approval process, is trials for withdrawal. Currently no trials on withdrawal for any drug is required by FDA. It puzzles me why, after so many years so much data for withdrawal issues for these drugs.

The ugly truth is, withdrawal problem is not unknown by the drug companies, as shown in the inserts of these drugs saying you need to reduce slowly, but the whole picture of withdrawal is not mentioned at all, a big misleading to new patients thinking as long as you taper slowly ( they also suggest like in a few weeks or so) then you will be fine, until you find the whole hell yourself too late.
<p>2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg, first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, slight improvement with pain2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR2016 Feb., started fast taper for the drug toxicity caused by the one dose of 4.2mg, dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, sliding Down to 0.13mg by 2/13, then 0.07mg since 2/18, 0.06mg 2/20-3/17, 0.13mg 3/18

#6 nz11

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:37 AM

wdl is 'mild an mild and short lived' ....yeah right!

 

I told my ex doctor how is it a drug can be said to be not addictive but then you are told you have to stop it slowly. Does that not seem odd to you ...you've got some brains why arent you using them!!

Then he appeared in a local newspaper two months later in an article titled ' Pill popping ends' . 


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#7 fema4psychiatrists

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 02:39 PM

Great, studies advocating the safety of toxic drugs to people with magic genes. Give me a break (no offence)

 

This would not have stopped me being harmed, I was seemingly fine for 20 odd years before I was harmed. The drugs change your brain REGARDLESS. you cannot take fraduelent brain interfering drugs everyday full stop.


Cocktail drugged since 9

Genitals went numb

Extreme intestinal gas and pain

Extreme anxiety cant concentrate

All permanent

 

Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD)

http://pssdblog.blogspot.com


#8 UnfoldingSky

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:08 PM

Thanks for posting US

 

"Within minutes, a doctor can get a clear indication whether the medication he or she is about to prescribe can be a danger to the patient. If those extra minutes can save a patient’s life, they are well spent."

 

Personally i would have thought all these so called medications are dangerous.

Dangerous to start and even more dangerous to stop regardless of what cyp one has or doesnt have.

Is wdl a serious adverse drug reaction? Its a serious adverse event right?

 

Hi nz11,

 

I think Lex is correct, withdrawal is technically officially an ADR.  However where the tests are relevant I don't think they predict who will have a bad withdrawal and who won't.  Aside from doing a badly planned taper or going cold turkey, which surely does increase the odds a bad withdrawal will occur, I don't know that there is a means of predicting if withdrawal will show up or not.

 

Also I had a professional refuse to report my ADR so I just reported it myself.  I don't know if that's an option in every country but where it is it's probably a good idea to self-report...as from people I know who work in medical fields I'm sure they almost never bother. However I'm convinced that the reports probably just fall right into a garbage can at the agencies they get sent to...surely if they were listening to us they'd have taken more meaningful steps to protect the public from being harmed by the drugs. 


Partly recovered from AD withdrawal/reactions as well as issues with other psych drugs.  Also, I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions. Also due to the withdrawal/reactions I have had I may at times have cognitive problems so please keep this in mind when reading my posts (also please note, these issues are improving as I recover).

 


#9 UnfoldingSky

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:34 PM

Great, studies advocating the safety of toxic drugs to people with magic genes. Give me a break (no offence)

 

This would not have stopped me being harmed, I was seemingly fine for 20 odd years before I was harmed. The drugs change your brain REGARDLESS. you cannot take fraduelent brain interfering drugs everyday full stop.

 

I agree with you and nz that the drugs are dangerous period.  Their basis for use is generally bogus  since they've said the imbalance theory has been discredited (although there are a number of necessary uses, for example to prevent withdrawal in those already on them to name one...)

 

However if the tests help prevent more people from being started on the drugs and avoid more reactions then I think they are a step in the right direction so long as they don't ever get to a point where they use tests to "prove" someone will tolerate a drug. I realize the tests have limitations, I am not sure my own reaction would have been caught by the tests either. 

 

The article is useful though for arguing with professionals who insist that the drugs never harm anyone, given they regularly dismiss our "anecdotal evidence", something coming from a forensic medical examiner surely would carry more weight.   


Partly recovered from AD withdrawal/reactions as well as issues with other psych drugs.  Also, I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions. Also due to the withdrawal/reactions I have had I may at times have cognitive problems so please keep this in mind when reading my posts (also please note, these issues are improving as I recover).

 


#10 btdt

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:37 AM

Withdrawal is bad for business so is genetic testing..... less people taking drug less people buying drugs it is that simple it really is. 

 

Testing is now cheap and we can get it ourselves... we should all do this if we can is my idea.  I have found to be not a good candidate for these drugs... after 18 years on them... I paid for the testing.. the trial by fire of wd and the state I find myself in now is what brought me to this point... and still testing after is too late.  

 

There does not seem to be any help for healing once the damage is done and I don't think we all heal and walk into the sunset some of jerk out way into nursing homes... yes my imagination and worst fear are showing. 

It is scary as hell to not be able to control my body... I want to walk it won't I want to breath it won't... I want to ... you name it... it won't...

it is a raw deal for sure.  I have times if I am real careful and stay out of the way of chemicals ect... I can have a good enough day to take a walk and maybe not use a respirator... but it is not a given. It is a rough go... just now hoping it gets better... I am doing everything I can think of. 

WD is scary debilitating and if this is now the long term effects of drugs I should never have taken it is quite scary too... I don't see a way out.. for others growing up now I don't see pre testing coming into play unless there is a huge major push or something bigger happens... 

maybe every parent will test their kid at 23 and me to safe guard their health surely poor people would not be able to do it only the rich... but it could be a start. They are not going to test their kid unless they have a reason maybe autism fear or something... it could happen... k I am running on... not sure what the op was about at this point... 

wishing you all peace B


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#11 InvisibleUnless

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 06:17 AM

though i am in support of P450 testing as a standard pre-drugging measure, because more information is generally a good thing, it does not weed out most negative responses or serious risks.  poor drug metabolizing is only one of many problems that can result in bad outcomes, including catastrophically bad outcomes.

 

though genetic testing is sometimes marketed as matching people to more ideally effective or tolerable drugs, meta-analyses fail to show substantial benefits.  this is partly because we have no idea what positive responses entail on a physical level and there are no uniform connections to our DNA.

 

tests for liver enzyme functionality specifically are basically just useful in guarding against the few times where someone can have a predictable negative reaction due to significant difficulties with the metabolism of many common psychiatric drugs.  a good tool, but not one which greatly diminishes the overall risks.  more appropriate prescribing, for example, would reduce preventable harms by an order of magnitudes.


from 2005-2012, i spent 7 years taking 17 different psychotropic medications covering several classes.  i would be taking 3-7 medications at a time, and 6 out of the 17 medications listed below were maxed or overmaxed in clinical dosage before i moved on to trying the next unhelpful cocktail.
 
antidepressants (SSRIs, SNRIs, NDRIs, tetracyclics): zoloft, wellbutrin, effexor, lexapro, prozac, cymbalta, remeron
antipsychotics (atypical): abilify, zyprexa, risperdal, geodon
sleep aids (benzos, off-label antidepressants & antipsychotics, hypnotics): seroquel, temazepam, trazodone, ambien
anxiolytics: buspar
anticonvulsants: topamax
 
i tapered off all psychotropics from late 2011 through early 2013, one by one.  for all 5 years since quitting, ive been cycling through severe, disabling withdrawal symptoms spanning the gamut of the serious, less serious, and rather worrisome side effects of these assorted medications.  previous cross-tapering and medication or dosage changes had also caused undiagnosed withdrawal symptoms.
 
brainpan addlepation


#12 btdt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:57 AM

"appropriate prescribing"

 

Where will we ever find that?  

 

If you happen to be one of the people who cannot metabolize a drug and the side effects are killing you and all you hear is you have to stay on it for 8wks ....it takes 8wks to work... side effects will lessen and your body will adapt in 8wks... 

 

while you having a drug reaction ..... 

 

I have checked my results and tho I have not had a professional interpret them yet it would seem I was drugged for 18 years of my life with drugs I could not metabolize... causing side effects of all manner. 

 

Appropriate noticing of a drug reaction would be on my list lol sorry I have to laugh cause it is all so devastating it really is. Looking a the big picture of a life and this is just one life.. I am positive I am not the only one. 

 

I am trying to learn more as I learn I will tell you want I find. 

peace IU...


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#13 btdt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:03 PM

I wonder if there is a connection

http://survivinganti...on/#entry260671


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#14 InvisibleUnless

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:47 AM

"appropriate prescribing"
 
Where will we ever find that?

precisely why i think it is only a very minor feature. there are much bigger difficulties and obstacles which are standing in the way of reducing preventable harms. it is still quite relevant for the few people who avoid a serious drug reaction due to screening, but most of the problems--including most of the long term problems--are not going to be avoided this way.

from 2005-2012, i spent 7 years taking 17 different psychotropic medications covering several classes.  i would be taking 3-7 medications at a time, and 6 out of the 17 medications listed below were maxed or overmaxed in clinical dosage before i moved on to trying the next unhelpful cocktail.
 
antidepressants (SSRIs, SNRIs, NDRIs, tetracyclics): zoloft, wellbutrin, effexor, lexapro, prozac, cymbalta, remeron
antipsychotics (atypical): abilify, zyprexa, risperdal, geodon
sleep aids (benzos, off-label antidepressants & antipsychotics, hypnotics): seroquel, temazepam, trazodone, ambien
anxiolytics: buspar
anticonvulsants: topamax
 
i tapered off all psychotropics from late 2011 through early 2013, one by one.  for all 5 years since quitting, ive been cycling through severe, disabling withdrawal symptoms spanning the gamut of the serious, less serious, and rather worrisome side effects of these assorted medications.  previous cross-tapering and medication or dosage changes had also caused undiagnosed withdrawal symptoms.
 
brainpan addlepation


#15 btdt

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:14 PM

I am not sure IU until we know how many people are actually affected by genetic reactions... it is hard to say which could be more pressing all issues are pressing.  First in all of it would be for a doctor to believe his patient and not run to the book all the time but think outside the box.. empathise a bit.  When I had a real bad reaction I was thought to need more drugs to fix it the thought of what it was like for me to live thru and after.. knowing an existence terror horror.. could happen to a person and could happen again should i not take my meds... there was not talk of that not processing of what was my reality in that situation... that is something I would hope would improve in the future... help to deal with horror be it drug induced or mental illness... mine happened to be a SAR ... but it took 20 years of it never happening again and 10 years off drug... so 30 years before I believed it was not possible to live thru something like that again... that is was indeed drug induced... there are a lot of corridors in this rat tunnel to go down and take a look and shine some light in... lots of tunnels that is for sure. 

Know the truth behind the science of the drug and the science of the person ... = the interaction would be a good start it would seem but there is a long way to go in a many respects.  

It is possible to see looking at say my genome for example that I will not respond well to antidepressants will have severe adverse reactions to AP s ... from how it looks now I am just starting to sort it... but warning on the first page for ADs 15... 

 

One day we will be far ahead of where we are now it has to start with science and telling the truth of what these drugs do.. the good the bad sorting when they may be worth the risk.. knowing the risk means using genetics to understand the human.  It is so easy to do now there is not reason not to. 

 

Guessing has been part of medicine in all times.. the reason it was called medical practice ... a lot of trial and error but we have come so far.  Guessing is far too risky.. and there is no longer any reason to guess. Along with admitting the dangers chances would naturally happen to how the drugs are prescribed in a perfect world that and genetic testing would all take place before  drug was handed out.

 

I can be a dreamer but maybe we need something to shoot for... now how to get the ones calling the shots to buy in? 

 

Always love talking to you IU... I think I miss this place... I can't be online as much as I use to due to health issues I hope to be back strong in the future..

wishing you peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#16 btdt

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:15 AM

I am not saying we don't need decent doctors and a forum that is willing to shake off the old and run with the new... doctors and can't think of the word... sorry brain freeze systems that docs work within... all need to chance.  I have been looking at genes some information is right there for the taking some times it surprises me what I can find by accident. 

 

shows if you have this gene you have an increased chance of suicide within 30 days of taking citalopram I think that is what it says... so don't give this person that drug easy enough or it should be.

 

https://www.snpedia....x.php/Rs4675690

 

It does not matter how good the tools are that humans make if they can't use the tools all is lost. Don't ask me how to fix the human race I am barely holding my own.... that is almost funny.  Maybe machine could do this part... check your dna offer which drug is best.. then let a human oversee it all.  ;) 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#17 btdt

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:56 AM

In clinical trials, the adverse events are defined as any undesired effects started AFTER first dose of the investigational drug, and within 30 days AFTER the last dose of the drug. But sometimes the 30 day is not added into the period, instead only the day of the last dose.

Majority of the SSirs were tested in trials with only 8-12 weeks treatment period, so the adverse events collected and reported are those occurd during those few weeks only. While withdrawl usually starts some days/weeks AFTER the last dose so most of those were not reported, as for the immediate drug reaction, those should be collected and reported.

The post market adverse events are supposedly reported if they are serious, and reporting is solely based on patients and/or doctors. I doubt many ( even the ones in this forum with most severe and serious events) ever report.

Drug companies are required to update the drug insert/labeling from the post market reported serious adverse events. That's all.

"Drug companies are required to update the drug insert/labeling from the post market reported serious adverse events. That's all. "

 

If you take a look at the updates on the FDA website which I spent a lot of time doing in the last ten years... you will find a lot of them seem to get updated when the drug goes off patent.

 

For Effexor last time I looked pages of updates... some warning letter for marketing rules that were broken. If you check for symptoms for reactions they are very late if you compare them to the scientific studies.  It is an important issue... once the side effect is added to the drug list at the FDA you are then considered to be told of the risk...

 

once you are told of the risk you are then prevented from suing for damages.....

 

how many sick people check the FDA website for updates on drug reactions... how many... none that is how many .. drug stores in Canada need to post only the three most common side effect of a drug...

 

to this day for effexor these are

Nauseadrowsinessdizzinessdry mouth

 

for some reason all doctors seem to tell me about was dry mouth... 

knowing what I do now this is ridiculous, for our wellbeing but works well for them. 

 

I find it odd how little difference the black box warning made to consumption of the drugs ...after reading the minutes from the hearing that had that warning placed on the drugs and at what cost was to so many people... 

 

I think people don't take the bbw seriously if the drug was that bad they expect it to not be on the market... which is exactly what the people at the hearings were hoping for... these drugs to be pulled from the market. 

 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#18 btdt

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:11 AM

There was  a lot of hope in 2004 that things would change... you can read it too I think history is important...

 

A Cure Worse than Disease - Antidepressants and Suicide
Oct 17, 2016 - On October 15, 2004, the FDA announced in a public health ... The agency finally held a public advisory committee hearing on February 2, 2004, to discuss reports ... The two congressional SSRI investigations are examining these issues. ..... 9, 2004), transcript available at http://energycommerc...e.house.gov ...
SSRI Experts Head to Washington to Testify Before ... - Baum Hedlund
Dec 13, 2006 - At that particular hearing, the famous SSRI litigator concluded her testimony ... 2004 hearings, Ms Menzies met with members of Congress to discuss .... "If you look at the transcript of the FDA hearing on this very side effect 10 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)


#19 btdt

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:12 AM

Hats off to anyone who can find it I tried and can't...


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivinganti...ng-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)






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