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waves12: 8 months after Cold Turkey and can barely cope.

duloxetine Cymbalta diazepam Valium

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#1 waves12

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 01:02 PM

Hello everyone.
 
I had been on this forum many times before reading all the posts, usually in the dead of night when feeling so desperate and alone with insomnia but did not sign up until now as hoping I would be feeling a bit better by now. I don't. I came off Duloxetine/Cymbalta, 60mg,in June 2016 cold turkey, probably a huge mistake to do it this way but I had been in touch with my doctor and he suggested to change antidepressant to Citalopram 20mg which I tried for a week and felt strange so ended up ditching both.  I went through a terrible time of adjustment for the first 100 days but then seemed to manage slightly better, although it was tough I had hope for a while apart from the no sleep. After another few weeks all kinds of symptoms came at me like an express train and these now remain. I feel generally unwell all the time, depressed, no interest, no zest for life and just not functioning very well.  I do have Citalopram tablets, 20mg, here in the house and feel tempted to take them but unsure of what to do. I also have Diazepam which I have taken on and off for 8/9 years 2mg. The Diazepam does not help me sleep at all but does calm me down a little but I feel it is not helpful to my withdrawal off the anti depressents and may be making symptoms worse.
 
Would like to ask advice as to whether or not to reinstate antidepressents for a while as struggling so badly with suicidal thoughts and of little hope in recovering. 8 months of feeling so ill everyday is such hard work and is like living less than half a life. All hope I had in feeling better has gone, I cant believe I can feel this bad and still continue to try and get on with the days activities. I keep thinking that I should be in a hospital being looked after but of course any doctor would just dose me up, seems appealing today.
 
Any suggestions would be appreciated very much.

Edited by scallywag, 04 March 2017 - 03:17 PM.
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#2 Petunia

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:29 PM

Welcome waves12,

I'm glad you decided to join and write an introduction post. I'm so sorry you're going through this, but unfortunately your experience is not uncommon. Recovery from these kinds of drugs, especially after stopping too fast can often take quite a while, longer than one would expect.

 

Your experience of feeling a little better, and then much worse is also quite normal and is called:

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

It would be great if you would put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature. Doing this helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts. Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

After 7 months, we generally wouldn't recommend reinstating the drug because there is no guarantee it would help, and it often makes symptoms worse. I tried going back on medication after suffering with symptoms for over a year and regretted it. I became much worse and it set my recovery back.

 

But it is an option and does work for some people. Here is our reinstatement topic, which explains how, you start with a very small amount:  About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

I think you may be right in suspecting that taking Diazepam is not helping, and yes, its probably making things worse, due to the destabilizing effect of taking it on an irregular basis.  I also tried using a benzo (xanax) to manage symptoms. But I quickly became dependent on it, causing worse symptoms in between doses. It was before I found this site and didn't realize my symptoms were being caused by a drug I stopped taking 6 months earlier.

 

If you have been taking Diazepam more than 1 - 2 times a week, you may already be dependent on it and will need to taper. For more information and help with this, please see our

Members-only benzo forum

 

And here is the link to our symptoms and self care section, you may find some useful ideas to help manage symptoms as you recover.  Especially read the topics pinned at the top.

 

You can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want. Its a good idea to bookmark it or follow it, so its easy to find again.

 

Petunia.


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal.

 

My Introduction Thread

 

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

 

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety)

Xanax PRN

Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes animal25.gif

 

Supplements which seem to help:  High doses of Vitamin C, Magnesium, Garlic and Ginger.  Taurine, Vit D3, L-Theanine and Inositol. I'm one of the rare people who react badly to fish oil.

 

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

 

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 


#3 waves12

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:43 AM

Hello Petunia

 

Thank you so much for replying to my post, I have been reading all the information on and off all day. As I thought reinstatement does not seem a good idea and I don't feel I want to risk it or undo the good work to date, although finding it hard to put the word 'good' against any part of my recovery so far. I will continue to read the posts and information on here and thank God for this website and all who post their experiences on here.

 

Sometimes I think 'if only I could sleep I am sure I would manage a bit better' the insomnia seems to effect many in AD withdrawal for a long time.  I have been sleeping for only two hours per night the last 8 months and it is torture night after night and really does drive me nuts. I have had about 5 nights since June 2016 where I slept for 6 hours and when this happened I really thought each time that the insomnia was ending, not so.

 

Looking forward to joining the posts with updates as and when new developments occur.



#4 Petunia

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:52 PM

I agree with you waves, not being able to get a refreshing nights sleep makes this all so much harder to deal with. My experience has been that sleep improves over time, also in a windows and waves kind of pattern. I went from not being able to sleep at all to where I am now with my sleep being completely back to normal.

 

My last sleep issue to recover was the ability to nap during the day.

 

There's really nothing which speeds up the recovery process, but many things we can do to minimize symptoms or help us deal with them better. Here is a topic with some sleep related ideas:

 

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal.

 

My Introduction Thread

 

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

 

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety)

Xanax PRN

Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes animal25.gif

 

Supplements which seem to help:  High doses of Vitamin C, Magnesium, Garlic and Ginger.  Taurine, Vit D3, L-Theanine and Inositol. I'm one of the rare people who react badly to fish oil.

 

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

 

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 


#5 syzygyea

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:52 AM

Your benzodiazepine could be causing all of these symptoms in itself, irregularly as you are taking it. Sleep patterns can't really normalise while benzos are in the picture. Their depressive side effects are also very underreported and underrated. I would focus on the side effects of your diazepam rather than adding citalopram to the problem. 

 

I experienced similar problems while using alprazolam, with random, severe bouts of depression. It took me years to figure out that it was the alprazolam and not my "condition" or citalopram dose. This was while I was stable on 10mg of citalopram, before I attempted tapering. Coming off alprazolam was rough (I also used it irregularly) and not without incident. It took a few months to settle down, and sleeping was my biggest issue. 

 

Bottom line is it's impossible to assess your mental and emotional wellbeing without adequate sleep, and it's impossible to maintain any natural sleep rhythm with a benzodiazepine in the picture. 


2004-2004: 60mg fluoxetine - poor effect, stopped
2004-2011: 20mg citalopram - initial anxiety, thereafter stable
2011-2016: 10mg citalopram - reduced dose
Sept 2016: 5mg citalopram

Dec 2016: 2.5mg citalopram

Jan 2017: 2mg citalopram

Feb 2017: 1mg citalopram

Mar 2017: ceased citalopram; monitoring symptoms 

 

Currently: Been on citalopram for 13 years; 28 years old; unplanned pregnancy - intend to taper citalopram to 0 prior to due date (April 2017)


#6 waves12

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:36 AM

Hello Syzygyea

 

Thank you for your post. Didn't know it was there until I went through the list. I am down to 1mg of valium now which I last took on Thursday last week and now hoping it will be the end. My sleep is just awful and no let up. Its as if my brain has lost the part which allows sleep.  I do all the right things, meditation, yoga and good diet but to no avail.  As you say the benzo needs to be completely gone and am hoping now that I will manage without it. Finding life so difficult right now and brain fog is so bad and have no interest in anything or anybody. Thank you again for your post and hope you are doing well.



#7 Terry4949

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:59 AM

Hi waves 12 I can fully relate to your problem , I have had no sleep for 8 weeks now , I have been withdrawn from all my medication by the hospital , I feel ill all the while and have no interest in anything or anybody , I just am in survival mode , the sweating and the shaking that is with me all through the night and into the day is torturous, I have been of venalaxafine for over 2 years and that's what caused my protracted withdrawel , I keep thinking even now about a small dose to see if it allieviates anything , which is because we are desperate. I am currently in a hospital and like you say all the doctors want to do is dose you up on as many drugs as possible , I wish I new the answer for both of us, I hate feeling like this , it's no life , if we could get some sleep I'm sure we would feel better , I have been suffering for 3 years now without windows , have you tried the supplements recommended on here , unfortunately none seem to work for me , but they may help you
100mg Effexor 2000 untill jan 2015 severe withdrawals . Tapered 4weeks.
Jan to end of Feb 4 weeks on 15mg mirtazapine 20mg quetiapine , tapered of both 2 weeks , severe withdrawals , still some from Effexor possibly
End of Feb 2015 to end of July 30mg citolapram tapered 2weeks severe withdrawal , anxiety high , bouts of sever depression , severe emotional moods
Currently on 30mg mirtazapine appx 5 months , high anxiety, March cut dose 22.5 mg going on to liquid still no improvements with the depression , also started sept 2015 200mg pregabalin , currently on 22.5mg mirtazapine tablet form doing really badly. Cut beginning of May remeron 20mg still bad anxiety,August 15mg remeron ,100mg pregablin , severe depression headaches anxiety , oct 2016 doctor stoped pregablin c/t , 15mg mirtazapine still no let up in physical symptoms ,high anxiety ,Nov 2016 remeron 13.5 mg , Jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped flouxetine20mg added by hospital admission, no choice , doing really badly , akathesia suicidel ,, Flouxetine c/t by hospital after 7 weeks 20mg daily , currently on nothing , God help me

#8 waves12

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:40 AM

Hi Terry 4949

 

Lovely to hear from you and thank you.  I am sorry to hear you are in the hospital feeling so bad, I hope you will fit enough soon to leave there. I had felt so many times that I should be in a hospital being cared for as living on my own seemed such hard work, but there again I could not have coped having someone in the house whilst going through this, cant win eh!  I had the terrible sweats for months and months and racing heart that I thought I was going to pass out, the sweats did pass over for a while but are back for some time now.  It is all so frightening and I find I worry and stress more during the dead of the night. I spend a lot of time in my living room during the night fretting about my lack of sleep, I try to go back to bed and always hope that I may just get some sleep for relief from myself. I really find the not sleeping very debilitating and find it difficult to make plans as so exhausted all the time and the thought of driving any distance is such a challenge but I do drive to see my son and family who live about an hour away, if I didn't go and see him I would struggle to see any family at all, even though he doesn't understand any of this I go anyway. After the drive home I am completely wasted for two full days and often wonder if it is worth it, it is as he has two little boys and they bring me joy, not much else does at the moment. I had thought of going back on AD's many times but I know this is not the answer and also have read that people have felt even worse when going back on, so I decided I couldn't feel any worse than I do and certainly don't fancy risking feeling worse. I do take fish oils and vitamin D but not sure if they help, again have also read that supplements can cause problems. What to do is so hard, trial and error.

 

I really hope you will be ok and look forward to any updates that you can do on here. This site is great for us. Sending you healing wishes.



#9 Terry4949

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 11:10 AM

Just because this site is for helping people coming of their antidepressants who wish to do so , it doesn't mean you have to struggle may be you could go and see your doctor and ask for a small amount of something even duloxetine to help you get stabilised , then try a really slow taper , I would think the benzo is causing a lot of the trouble, when you came of the duloxetine did you feel ok wilst on it , that was a massive amount to c/t from and would have put your whole body into shock , sometimes you have to go back wards to move forwards , many people I have read on here have gone back on and stabilised and then withdrawn very slowly , if you look at my history you can see what hell I have been through. if the med made you feel better when you first went on it doesn't mean it won't again , then do things more slowly , nobody should have to suffer , you need your doctor to do more , and help you with the benzo withdrawel
100mg Effexor 2000 untill jan 2015 severe withdrawals . Tapered 4weeks.
Jan to end of Feb 4 weeks on 15mg mirtazapine 20mg quetiapine , tapered of both 2 weeks , severe withdrawals , still some from Effexor possibly
End of Feb 2015 to end of July 30mg citolapram tapered 2weeks severe withdrawal , anxiety high , bouts of sever depression , severe emotional moods
Currently on 30mg mirtazapine appx 5 months , high anxiety, March cut dose 22.5 mg going on to liquid still no improvements with the depression , also started sept 2015 200mg pregabalin , currently on 22.5mg mirtazapine tablet form doing really badly. Cut beginning of May remeron 20mg still bad anxiety,August 15mg remeron ,100mg pregablin , severe depression headaches anxiety , oct 2016 doctor stoped pregablin c/t , 15mg mirtazapine still no let up in physical symptoms ,high anxiety ,Nov 2016 remeron 13.5 mg , Jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped flouxetine20mg added by hospital admission, no choice , doing really badly , akathesia suicidel ,, Flouxetine c/t by hospital after 7 weeks 20mg daily , currently on nothing , God help me

#10 nz11

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:52 PM

Hi waves

Do you think it is possible to put up  drug signature it makes it so easy to see a persons situation providing an immediate window on your position and is easier than having to read back through posts to get a handle on whats happened.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am)28 Sept 15 (5yrs drug free), cf, cmw, insomnia  horrifying pssd continues, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, cognitively doing heaps better. 28 Sept 16 after 6 yrs start working again on a casual basis.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#11 ChessieCat

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:57 PM

As requested please Create Your Signature.  Please include details for the last 12-18 months of  all drugs, dates, doses and discontinuations & reinstatements.  If you can't remember dates, please write it as "early March" or "mid-August".  Please provide a summary of any drugs prior to that which can just be listed with start and stop years. Please include all prescription, non-prescription drugs and supplements you are currently taking. Phone Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature. Please also remember to update it with date and dose whenever make a change so that it remains current. Thank you.


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 28mg (from 3 March 17)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.






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