Going back on the drug

[Shanti]

Sometimes I wonder, if someone is at the point that they can't take it, if they should just go back on the meds. Some of us manage because we have children to anchor us. But some of us don't, and some suffer worse symptoms.

 

If a person decides to go back on, maybe it's for the best. Maybe sometime in the future will be a better time. Like they'll have more strength, or maybe new remedies will come out to make it easier.

 

I have a friend that chose to go back on because she couldn't take it. I totally supported her and said I didn't blame her. I just let her know that if ever she decides to try again to let me know and I'll help her with remedies and support. I think it's encouraging her to see how I'm managing.

[Barbarannamated]

Shanti,

let us know how she does. I never realized any noticeable benefit from ADs, just kept trying different ones, upping dosed, adding on for years. I think I got much worse thru it all. of course, just the emotional factors of disability being disabling, unemployment, all have effects. I think my life would have continued to become less grounded as I continued in AD fog, but everyone is different. I know people who go on Prozac very intermittently and say they are helped. PMDD perhaps.

Barb

[compsports]

If the person made the decision being fully informed without pressure from medical professionals and loved ones, then I would totally support them 100%.

 

To be honest, if I thought the risk/benefit issue was in my favor regarding meds, I would have considered going back on them. But they were pooping out on me and causing horrific side effects. I had to get off of them come heck or high water.

 

CS

[Phil]

I don't blame your friend either, Shanti. I say this after being off Lexapro and suffering a lot daily now as a result. I find myself thinking "I wish I was still on the Lexapro, at least I felt somewhat content".

 

You might want to ask your friend if she's had any adverse effects from going back on - akathesia can sometimes happen when you re-instate the drug after coming off it for a while. It's that which scares me from ever trying Lexapro again.

[Shanti]

I too, had no choice. I pooped-out on Paxil after only 5 months. I didn't tell her this, because she was already scared to death. I thought it best to just be there for her if and when that time does come.

[Barbarannamated]

Shanti,

Has your friend had a thorough endocrine workup? I just read an article about SSRIs effecting thyroid function. Another potential reason for the poop-out. I will upload article when on a real computer. I would encourage her (anyone!) to do that and not be on ADs long term. There are too many unknown risks--exacerbating depression, causing diabetes, possible effects of fertility.

 

There are many drugs --legal and illegal, FDA blessed and not -- that effect mood both positively and negatively. At one point, my psychiatrist said he thought it was ok to take opiates for depression occasionally. I believe it was when I was getting worse on ADs and had tried everything indicated or used for depression. Opiates definitely help my mood. Of course, they are 'addictive' although I never displayed addictive behaviors of escalating dosage, drug seeking, etc. That leads me to think that the mechanism of addiction/ tolerance/WD may differ for each individual and each drug and why some people can DC ADs w no problems and same for pain meds. I DC'd oxycodone after several years (of daily low dose use) in about 2 weeks w/o problem. I'm not suggesting that opiates be used as antidepressants across the board, but it forces me to look at the history of drug development and individual variations in response to diff drugs. There was a blog post a few moths ago about a compound that did not get FDA approval as AD because it worked too quickly and may cause addiction. WTF?! There is such a fear of abuse that effective treatments are being denied! SSRIs were originally thought to be a safe alternative to benzos in their calming effects and to exert their AD effect thru anxiolytic action (ie. blunting emotions) w/o the sedative effect of benzos. David Healy mentions this as do several others. For the most part, the ADs we are DCing are not activating aside drom Prozac/paroxetine and that MAY be b/c it is LESS selective for serotonin (or one of the many 5HT subtypes which theoretically have diff effects). That's getting into the bogus balancing act.

In reading the history of treatments for depression, many previous 'antidepressants' are now known to be addictive and so not used. Is SS/NRIs DC syndrome LESS of a problem than opiate dependence and detox?? I can only answer for myself-- an unequivocal NO!! SNRI WD is far worse and other risks are yet to be determined.

Among other agents used as antidepressants over the years: marijuana, amphetamines/stimulants (still used in some cases, esp elderly ill), benzos, estrogen, thyroid (3, 4 or both), of course, TCAs and MAOIs. Im sure there are many others.

Identifying the underlying cause (endocrine very likely) is something still overlooked. I think that should direct treatment. My depression was once described as a 'vegetative depression' w lack of energy being the hallmark. I understand many of you had an anxious depression which did respond to serotonergic agents b/c they are generally calming and not activating. I needed something activating and understand now why my condition worsened (and likely accelerated endocrine/autoimmune probs).

There is a program on The History Channel about psychotropic drug development and use through the ages. Very much along the lines of what we discuss here. I just happened to catch it yesterday. Has anyone seen it?

 

Sorry to get philosophical on ya, Shanti! I believe that 'what is an antidepressant?' is a question with many different answers (not all pharmacologic). Your 1st point that your friend does not have a child or something else to help ground her is a HUGE issue far more prevalent than most people imagine. A 'support system', IMHO, includes not only the obvious ones who GIVE support but also those who who need or rely on someone. Hope that makes sense. Topic for another thread!

[Shanti]

Hi Barb. I never have trouble with Vicodin either. I've gone off and on it several times with no withdrawal. But it does get to where it doesn't work and you have to up the dose. That's the only trouble for me. I was thinking of getting California Poppy herb to try for anti-depressant. It's a sub-opiate.

 

I would love to see the article you're talking about.

[Shanti]

When people do come to poop-out, they can switch to other antidepressants. Some people don't poop-out for many years. I'm talking here about people that are ready to give up and suicide. This is a much better option.

[Barbarannamated]

Yes, of course. im negatively biased b/c I never noticed anything positive w SS/NRIs. I have one friend who responded well to Zoloft w/I a week and that sticks in my mind as the only person I know who responded. I also know someone who takes Prozac occasionally short term. I meant no judgment! I think out loud too much sometimes. Absolutely, in a case like that, whatever helps that particular person. There is a med that works almost immediately that I've heard discussed for emergency situations. (ketamine, perhaps?) There are so many diff factors involved for diff people. I have to remember that some people do respond to SSRIs.

How is your friend doing? Did she respond well? I hope she's doing well, Shanti.

[Barbarannamated]

in my case, I suspect I had an underlying thyroid disorder for long time, in which case ADs wont work.

[Shanti]

Yeah, and I already had a central nervous system disorder, so I pooped out at 5 months and other medications didn't work.

[Shanti]

My advise to anyone that decides to go back on the drugs, is to use the time that you're feeling back to "normal" to build up your spirit. No matter your faith, get strong in spirit to ready yourself for when the time comes to try again. Lot's of prayer and song. It's a good time to look up more information on spiritual tools and practices, and envelop yourself in them. Such as prayer, meditation, yoga, decrees, mantras, and chanting, etc. You can also take all the vitamin supplements for the brain and nervous system, fish oil, flaxseed oil, magnesium and calcium.

[DazedNConfused]

Almost 2 years in WD, and some days the depression is just too much for me to handle. I'm not talking about suicide, I'm talking about starting the AD journey all over again. I'm pretty sure though that my body will act differently this time around... And not in a good way.

 

During my initial Remeron WD, i tried Cymbalta and Lexapro and had a severe reaction to both. I had been on and off Lexapro before with no issues, but this time was insanely different. Do you think I would have these same side extreme effects 2 years on?

 

I ask because when I have days like today where the depression literally knocks me on my arse, I find myself on my knees begging for some sort of relief. Desperate enough to consider dragging myself through Hell again, just for that incy bit of a break. The strange thing is, ADs have never brought relief before, so I'm not sure why I'm so convinced it would help now. Ugh. My brain is so fried.

 

Thoughts? Experiences?

[Petunia]

 The strange thing is, ADs have never brought relief before, so I'm not sure why I'm so convinced it would help now. Ugh. My brain is so fried.

 

 

Its fairly common for people to believe that their ADs are helping them, when in fact they are making their life worse.  Dr. Peter Breggin calls it Medication Spellbinding, he made a short youtube video about it here:  Medication Spellbinding

[DazedNConfused]

I think it may be that I've spent so much time, energy and money on alternative ways of treating my "depression" and nothing has made a scrap of difference. I can't afford to have depression or anxiety. I NEED to be able to earn money to live. I NEED to effectively be able to raise my preschool aged child on my own. I NEED to be able to maintain the relationships with my friends and family, which, by the way are dropping off one by one. Sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there.

 

Anyway, the many psychologists, drs, counsellors and even one of the pastors at the local church have all suggested going on medication. It's like it's the only option I haven't tried in the last (almost) 2 years, and feels like it's the only option I have left, which is depressing in itself.

 

So, do you think enough water has passed under the bridge to pershaps get some benefit? Or is it likely to send me spiralling again?

[rapunzel2]

what alternative ways have you tried? have you tried gluten-free-casein-free diet?

[btdt]

I think it may be that I've spent so much time, energy and money on alternative ways of treating my "depression" and nothing has made a scrap of difference. I can't afford to have depression or anxiety. I NEED to be able to earn money to live. I NEED to effectively be able to raise my preschool aged child on my own. I NEED to be able to maintain the relationships with my friends and family, which, by the way are dropping off one by one. Sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there.

 

Anyway, the many psychologists, drs, counsellors and even one of the pastors at the local church have all suggested going on medication. It's like it's the only option I haven't tried in the last (almost) 2 years, and feels like it's the only option I have left, which is depressing in itself.

 

So, do you think enough water has passed under the bridge to pershaps get some benefit? Or is it likely to send me spiralling again?

The fact that all those in your life who have an opinion say take a drug shows how well marketed these drugs are it is a lie... we know it is a lie we have suffered the hell of the lie the reactions the withdrawal... yet still we want to believe in the magical thinking of pharmas magic pills that is a delusional state to be in. 

 

What my experience and life have taught me.... 

is the above my research and mind when it works says this is all true... in studies all but the most depressed do not get relief from drugs and even those are likely feeling relief because the drug is damaging their brains so they can't think... if you can't think your not aware of what you need to be doing to change you life or how crappy you life is... you just melt away into the sea of confusion and side effects and lay there like an algae on top of the ocean sometimes going out to sea sometimes sinking all controlled by the ocean none of it under your control.  

 

Pharma is delusional the science behind it was delusional the relationship they have with us is delusional.  So there you have it along with all the armchair shrinks who have been reading pharma propaganda for 30 years and watching it on tv and voting for it in our system... you now have my armchair science.  

 

Two years is too early... and yes I know single parent here drugged for 18 years... the pain of missing your kids emotional life again the pain of staying drugged and losing yourself sorry those two go together...

see this is how my brain works 7 years off the drugs....

 

those two against all the thoughts of brain washed world ... your doc minister ect... with take a pill and get your ass to work...

 

the answer looks easy don't it... but like you said it did not work before...

 

I did the get your ass to work thing ate my pills cause I was not going to be a deadbeat mother ... a layabout a head case what chance would the kid of such a mother have in this demanding damning world... I went to work not only that I worked two and sometimes three jobs ... was I there for my kid not so much... was I emotionally available... no I was not... can recall his life not so much... was I in a state of one reaction after the other yep ... was it hell on wheels yep ....

BUT I looked good on paper. 

 

I did what people thought I should and so I had their support and so did my kid... we went as hard and as fast as we could as long as we could and then I collapsed. The drugs stopped working and that was the end of it . Time to pay the piper ... and guess what all those people who had an opinion were no where to be found I paid alone... my kid pays still so do I .  you have a choice it is yours alone 

I know what your up against I will not judge you no matter what you choose 

My opinion will the next drug work... ?  nobody knows... do they 

nobody 

 

I have been between a rock and a hard place before and some of those times a drug did help me... that is the truth tho I wish to say IF I had never taken the first AD the second one would not have stopped withdrawal... that is how they work.... 

 

I don't know your story... I am not a good one to advise on the ins and outs of taper but I know withdrawal at 2 years can find you not healed and to jump back into the ocean... too soon means to me likely more of the same... 

 

There are some others here who have a different understanding of this new way things are going ... go on a bit get stable taper off slowly may be the way to go... I never did it so I can't say ... I am old school take everything they say collapse change drugs keep going till you collapse again... I don't recommend it. 

[mammaP]

Hi Dazed. I just re-read your intro thread http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6818-dazednconfused-amys-story/?hl=dazednconfused

 

You have been through so much, more than anyone should ever have to go through and you have survived. 

You have detached yourself from an abusive relationship and kicked alcohol which you were using to self

medicate. These are amazing achievements you should be very proud of. You had adverse reactions to 

the medications you were taking so it is very likely that you would have reactions to others too.  Withdrawal is

hell to go through and can be very lonely, no-one understands unless they have been there and people always

seem to think the answer is to go back on meds, even after the nasty side effects you already suffered. 

 

Do you have any support? Family or friends who know what you have been through and can support you. Help

out with your little one sometimes so you can have a break?  I am sue you would benefit greatly from some trauma

therapy too after all you have been through, just being able to talk freely about your feelings and fears can make a huge 

difference when it is someone who is neutral.  I don't know if your doctor would refer you but I think it would be worth a try.

 

Reading your thread it looks like there may be some improvement with some symptoms which is good and other symptoms 

will improve also. I feel for you it must be a nightmare but it will get better. Take care of yourself and be kind to yourself.

Eat food that is as good and as natural as possible, many of us have found that eating the wrong things can have a bad effect

on us. I bought some gluten free breakfast biscuits and carefully read the label. Nothing nasty added so was happy with my find.

A few days later I feel very low, tired and depressed, it never occurred to me that it could be those biscuits until one day I was eating

some for breakfast and felt ill. An hour later I was in bed feeling very depressed and sick. I can only think that it is the amount of

sugar that is in them, sugar from various sources that don't even look like sugar on the label! 

 

There are lots of topics in the self care section that offer great advice and suggestions. and the topic on how to deal with emotional

problems without drugs. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

You can get through this, it will get better, I know it isn't happening as fast as you need it to but it is happening and we are all here for you in

the meantime. 

[Altostrata]

Dazed, there is no predicting what going on any type of neurologically active drug might do for you. Your nervous system may be so sensitized, anything could make it worse.

 

It does sound to me like you have a lot in your life that might cause anyone emotional distress. This is situational. Have you tried counseling or a support group?

[Rhiannon]

Unfortunately I have found that the drugs are no substitute for the very, very hard work of finding ways to take care of myself and my needs and carving out a life in which I can be happy enough (not perfectly happy, just enough) and stable. This has involved a lot of work and a lot of therapy and a lot of healing from trauma and a lot of just propping myself up in life where I can, getting support, taking care of myself, etc. This is not a kind or gentle or easy society to live in especially if you're a single mother, but there are always ways to carve out a bit of support, a bit of "better", a bit of relief. Those kinds of real changes in actual reality, as well as learning to know and love oneself better, and dealing with old wounds and pain that we've carried around for many years, are the kinds of things that really do work and really do heal. 

 

If there were drugs that could fix us and heal us, heal our lives and our minds and our hearts, that would be awesome and I would probably take one. But those drugs don't exist. Pills can't do that for us. Only our real selves in the real world can do that. I'm not saying it's easy. It's hard work. But it's real, and if you take that journey, the things you learn and the changes you make will be forever and will grow and build.

 

I agree, see if you can get some support in your life, and definitely if you're feeling bad enough to want to take pills, try some therapy and exercise first. Way less dangerous and you won't go through hell and you may get more than an eency bit of relief.