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Valium Cymbalta

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#1 gardenlady

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:32 PM

Moderator's note: Link to gardenlady's benzo thread

 

I would like to taper off of 60 mg Cymbalta.  However, I am in the middle of a taper off of Valium and am now at 11 mg/day.  The horror stories I have heard about Cymbalta withdrawal terrify me.  Should I cross over from Cymbalta to another AD and then taper off?  And, should I wait until I finish my Valium taper?  I cross tapered from 1.75 mg Ativan to 13 mg Valium and am now down to 11 mg.  It's going to be a long time until I'm off of it.  I am horribly depressed since switching to Valium, but the anxiety from interdose withdrawals on the Ativan were unbearable.  I want off of ALL of these psychotropic drugs but realize I have to go slowly.  I just want my life back.  Any advice would be much appreciated.  


Edited by Shep, 18 March 2017 - 03:22 PM.
added link to benzo thread

Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#2 mammaP

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:03 PM

Hi Gardenlady, welcome to SA.  Can you tell us how long you have been tapering valium, and how you are doing it? ( How often are you dropping doses and by how much, and how are you making up the dose )  

 

We usually recommend tapering the AD first, as the valium can help to buffer some of the withdrawal. We find that it is usually better to taper from the original drug because switching can cause more problems. If it is done very slowly the withdrawals can be kept to a minimum. We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time because it would be impossible to tell which one was causing any problems that may arise. Some people do successfully do multiple tapers but it takes a lot of time and patience, cutting by miniscule amounts and need very careful records to keep them on track.  If you've been tapering the benzo for a while you would be best to hold and stabilise then think about tapering cymbalta. 

 

Here are some links to topics for you to read through. 

 

Tapering cymbalta  http://survivinganti...lta-duloxetine/

 

Tapering more than one drug..

 

 

.http://survivinganti...pressant-first/

 

http://survivinganti...drug-at-a-time/


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#3 gardenlady

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 03:29 PM

Hi Gardenlady, welcome to SA.  Can you tell us how long you have been tapering valium, and how you are doing it? ( How often are you dropping doses and by how much, and how are you making up the dose )  

 

We usually recommend tapering the AD first, as the valium can help to buffer some of the withdrawal. We find that it is usually better to taper from the original drug because switching can cause more problems. If it is done very slowly the withdrawals can be kept to a minimum. We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time because it would be impossible to tell which one was causing any problems that may arise. Some people do successfully do multiple tapers but it takes a lot of time and patience, cutting by miniscule amounts and need very careful records to keep them on track.  If you've been tapering the benzo for a while you would be best to hold and stabilise then think about tapering cymbalta. 

 

Here are some links to topics for you to read through. 

 

Tapering cymbalta  http://survivinganti...lta-duloxetine/

 

Tapering more than one drug..

 

 

.http://survivinganti...pressant-first/

 

http://survivinganti...drug-at-a-time/

 

Here is my benzo history:

May 2014-Tapered off of 2 mgs K via 6 wk fast taper

Protracted acute withdrawal for 7 months. 
10 month window
Protracted withdrawal reappeared as PTSD with akathisia after personal trauma in March 2016. 
Aug/29/16 - Reinstated 2 mg Ativan & 10 mg Ambien 
Oct/16-Tapered Ativan down to 1.75 mg & crossed from 20 mg Lexapro to 60 mg duloxetine 
Nov-Dec 2016-Tapered off of 10 mg Ambien
Jan-Feb 2017-c/o from 1.75 mg Ativan to 13 mg Valium
Feb/26/17-12 mg V
Mar/6/17-11 mg V (4 mg morning, 2 mg afternoon, 5 mg night)
 
I am using 5 mg and 2 mg Valium tablets and splitting as needed.  The taper plan for Valium is 1 mg cut every 1 - 2 wks or more (depending on wd sx) until I get to 10 mg and then I'll slow to .5 mg cut every 2 - 4 weeks or as symptoms allow, then decrease to .25 mg cut depending on symptoms.  If necessary, I'll go to a daily liquid micro taper. 
 
The problem is that I am SO very depressed on the Valium that I'm concerned that stopping that taper and then tapering the Cymbalta (which could take months or a year) will only add to the depression.   
 
Other issues:
1. I can't open the 60 mg duloxetine capsules. I've tried several and they won't come apart.   
2. They are generic made by Citron in India.  I've investigated online and found that the beads in Citron duloxetine are irregular and in pieces, so I cannot use the bead counting method.
3. My 2 Gemini scales are inaccurate, weigh differently each time and won't calibrate.  I used them when tapering off of Ambien where the accuracy wasn't that important.  However, with duloxetine, it's crucial. 
 
Thanks for your help.

Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#4 scallywag

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 06:57 PM

gardenlady -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

No need to be terrified about tapering Cymbalta. I've been reducing Cymbalta dose for over a year now. After having followed some bad information from my doctor, I have settled into a very manageable rhythm of tapering.

 

I've been counting the beads from brand-name Cymbalta capsules to create taper doses -- I haven't needed to use a scale.

 

Are you taking brand-name Cymbalta or generic duloxetine?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#5 gardenlady

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:04 PM

gardenlady -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

No need to be terrified about tapering Cymbalta. I've been reducing Cymbalta dose for over a year now. After having followed some bad information from my doctor, I have settled into a very manageable rhythm of tapering.

 

I've been counting the beads from brand-name Cymbalta capsules to create taper doses -- I haven't needed to use a scale.

 

Are you taking brand-name Cymbalta or generic duloxetine?

 

I'm taking the generic duloxetine made by Citron in India.  I've investigated online and found that the beads in Citron duloxetine are irregular and in pieces, so I cannot use the bead counting method.  So, If I can't bead count or use my scales, what other options are there?  Thanks for your help!


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#6 nz11

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:36 AM

Have you thought about buying a more accurate scale?

It could be well worth the investment.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#7 scallywag

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:14 AM

Well if the beads are irregular and inconsistent, then a scale it is! Sorry I missed that information in one of your previous posts. Several people here have used a Gemini Scale with success. YOu can find more information about that in this topic:
Using a digital scale to measure doses.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#8 gardenlady

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 06:35 AM

 

Hi Gardenlady, welcome to SA.  Can you tell us how long you have been tapering valium, and how you are doing it? ( How often are you dropping doses and by how much, and how are you making up the dose )  

 

We usually recommend tapering the AD first, as the valium can help to buffer some of the withdrawal. We find that it is usually better to taper from the original drug because switching can cause more problems. If it is done very slowly the withdrawals can be kept to a minimum. We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time because it would be impossible to tell which one was causing any problems that may arise. Some people do successfully do multiple tapers but it takes a lot of time and patience, cutting by miniscule amounts and need very careful records to keep them on track.  If you've been tapering the benzo for a while you would be best to hold and stabilise then think about tapering cymbalta. 

 

Here are some links to topics for you to read through. 

 

Tapering cymbalta  http://survivinganti...lta-duloxetine/

 

Tapering more than one drug..

 

 

.http://survivinganti...pressant-first/

 

http://survivinganti...drug-at-a-time/

 

Here is my benzo history:

May 2014-Tapered off of 2 mgs K via 6 wk fast taper

Protracted acute withdrawal for 7 months. 
10 month window
Protracted withdrawal reappeared as PTSD with akathisia after personal trauma in March 2016. 
Aug/29/16 - Reinstated 2 mg Ativan & 10 mg Ambien 
Oct/16-Tapered Ativan down to 1.75 mg & crossed from 20 mg Lexapro to 60 mg duloxetine 
Nov-Dec 2016-Tapered off of 10 mg Ambien
Jan-Feb 2017-c/o from 1.75 mg Ativan to 13 mg Valium
Feb/26/17-12 mg V
Mar/6/17-11 mg V (4 mg morning, 2 mg afternoon, 5 mg night)
 
I am using 5 mg and 2 mg Valium tablets and splitting as needed.  The taper plan for Valium is 1 mg cut every 1 - 2 wks or more (depending on wd sx) until I get to 10 mg and then I'll slow to .5 mg cut every 2 - 4 weeks or as symptoms allow, then decrease to .25 mg cut depending on symptoms.  If necessary, I'll go to a daily liquid micro taper. 
 
The problem is that I am SO very depressed on the Valium that I'm concerned that stopping that taper and then tapering the Cymbalta (which could take months or a year) will only add to the depression.   
 
Other issues:
1. I can't open the 60 mg duloxetine capsules. I've tried several and they won't come apart.   
2. They are generic made by Citron in India.  I've investigated online and found that the beads in Citron duloxetine are irregular and in pieces, so I cannot use the bead counting method.
3. My 2 Gemini scales are inaccurate, weigh differently each time and won't calibrate.  I used them when tapering off of Ambien where the accuracy wasn't that important.  However, with duloxetine, it's crucial. 
 
Thanks for your help.

 

 

Please see this part of my post from yesterday.  I've bought 2 Gemini scales and neither one is accurate nor will calibrate accurately.  I don't know of another kind of scale to buy...I've investigated and found that to get a really reliable one costs hundreds of dollars.   The reasonable solution is to cross taper from Cymbalta to a drug that is more feasible to taper off of.  Do you have any suggestions?  I'm really stuck and need help.  Thanks!


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#9 nz11

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:32 AM

You havent said what scales you have so anyway in case you have the one from the cornies packet there is this one

http://www.americanw...products_id=580

 

or this one

http://www.americanw...roducts_id=2116

 

Accuracy is required when tapering off all of these drugs and especially more so when one has a 'long history of ads'

I think that cross tapering your cymbalta is a very risky move. ...all these drugs require care when tapering.


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#10 gardenlady

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

Thanks for your response! I have 2 of the Gemini 20 scales from American Weigh. They are both inaccurate. This is one of the two you recommended. I'll look into the Gemini Pro version, but wonder if it would be any better since it's also an American Weigh product.

I have cross tapered from and to numerous ADs successfully since 1990, so wonder why crossing from Cymbalta to something else would be any different. Honestly, I've never been able to tell any difference in any of them. I just want off completely.


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#11 scallywag

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:43 PM

Others have talked about how they work around Gemini scale's deficiencies in the topic I linked. The scale seems to be less precise at low measurements so they weigh their medications with the 10mg tare weight on it. Have you tried that?

To get a scale with greater accuracy and precision, you'll need to spend at least $1,500 US.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#12 ChessieCat

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:56 PM

From Post #87 in the Using a digital scale:

 

"One trick for getting more accurate readings is to keep the calibration weight in the pan while weighing our dose.  Put the weight in the pan and press the "TARE" button.  This will zero the scale but put the electronics in the middle of their range where they are the most accurate.  Now weigh your dose as usual."

 

(Scally just beat me to it)


Reminder to self:      P A T I E N C E       I want to go faster    but I won't

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 24mg (from 19 May 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#13 gardenlady

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:03 PM

Yes, I have tried using the 10 mg weight that comes with the scales and they are still inaccurate.

 

I simply want to cross taper from Cymbalta onto something else.  I'm stunned that there is no solution to this....really hard to believe.  I did read somewhere on a link on this site about crossing from 20 mg Cymbalta to 10 mg of Prozac, but I'm on 60 mg of Cymbalta.   


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#14 ChessieCat

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:37 PM

Have you spoken to the pharmacist about what other generic versions of Cymbalta are available?  You may need to try different pharmacies to find out what they supply. See at the bottom of Post #1 under the heading Switch to Prozac in this topic:  Tips for tapering off Cymbalta (duloxetine)


Reminder to self:      P A T I E N C E       I want to go faster    but I won't

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 24mg (from 19 May 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#15 ChessieCat

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:50 PM

The big issue with change your drug is that you may end up getting withdrawal symptoms from the duloxetine and get start up and or side effects from the new drug.  You won't know what is causing any issues.

 

Citron duloxetine is available in 20mg, 30mg & 60mg.  You could take 20 + 50 + capsules (then 20 + 20 + capsules) compounded by a pharmacy.  This is similar to what I have done to taper Pristiq which is only available in 50mg & 100mg.  I got small amounts compounded and was taking them with my 50mg.  After I got lower than 50mg I have been taking only compounded Pristiq.

 

From the tips-for-tapering-off-cymbalta-duloxetine:

 

Have a compounding pharmacy make up capsules of smaller dosages
For precise dosing, a compounding pharmacy will accurately weigh the doses and put the right number of beads into capsules for you. See http://survivinganti...ndpost__p__3001


Reminder to self:      P A T I E N C E       I want to go faster    but I won't

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 24mg (from 19 May 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#16 nz11

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:39 PM

I have cross tapered from and to numerous ADs successfully since 1990, so wonder why crossing from Cymbalta to something else would be any different. Honestly, I've never been able to tell any difference in any of them. I just want off completely.

Do you think, as you reflect back, that your cross overs have always resulted not in going drug free but in moving sideways to a higher equiv dose? and the introduction of a benzo?

 

What does your doctor have in mind this time?


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#17 gardenlady

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 06:02 PM

Thanks so much for the advice.

 

 

I have cross tapered from and to numerous ADs successfully since 1990, so wonder why crossing from Cymbalta to something else would be any different. Honestly, I've never been able to tell any difference in any of them. I just want off completely.

Do you think, as you reflect back, that your cross overs have always resulted not in going drug free but in moving sideways to a higher equiv dose? and the introduction of a benzo?

 

What does your doctor have in mind this time?

 

I haven't moved to a higher equivalent dose AD when crossing.  The benzo was first used for insomnia.  The second time around I was in protracted acute withdrawal (didn't know at the time that's what it was....looked like PTSD) 2 years after tapering off clonazepam so my psychiatrist put me on Ativan when she switched me from Lexapro to Cymbalta.  I no longer go to psychiatrists since they are the ones who put me on these poisons.  My current doctor & psychologist want to get me off the benzo and AD permanently, as I do.  They are making me sick.  Thank you for your interest. 


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#18 gardenlady

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 06:08 PM

The big issue with change your drug is that you may end up getting withdrawal symptoms from the duloxetine and get start up and or side effects from the new drug.  You won't know what is causing any issues.

 

Citron duloxetine is available in 20mg, 30mg & 60mg.  You could take 20 + 50 + capsules (then 20 + 20 + capsules) compounded by a pharmacy.  This is similar to what I have done to taper Pristiq which is only available in 50mg & 100mg.  I got small amounts compounded and was taking them with my 50mg.  After I got lower than 50mg I have been taking only compounded Pristiq.

 

From the tips-for-tapering-off-cymbalta-duloxetine:

 

Have a compounding pharmacy make up capsules of smaller dosages
For precise dosing, a compounding pharmacy will accurately weigh the doses and put the right number of beads into capsules for you. See http://survivinganti...ndpost__p__3001

Thanks so much for your help and advice!  Combining various doses to get wean down probably is a good solution.  Am still hoping that my doctor will come up with a way to cross me from Cymbalta over to something I've been on before and then taper off of that. 


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#19 scallywag

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:21 PM

What do you mean when you say the scale is inaccurate? When you put the 10 mg calibration weight on the scale what happens?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results
Cymbalta (brand name), 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 20 mg to 7 mg in 2016, exact doses and dates in this post;
2017: 6.3 (58 beads) Feb. 1; 5.6 mg (52) Feb. 22; 5.4 mg (50) Mar. 15; 5.1 mg (47) Mar. 25; 4.9 mg (45) Apr. 5; 4.5 mg (42) Apr. 14; 3.5 mg (32) Apr. 26;
Current dose: 2.6 mg (24) 2017-May-17
+ Supplements: fish oil (1500 mg EPA/500 mg DHA), Vitamins: D3, K2, C; Minerals: Mg, Se, Cr, I, V
scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet


#20 nz11

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:47 PM

 Am still hoping that my doctor will come up with a way to cross me from Cymbalta over to something I've been on before and then taper off of that.

Sounds a little like the 'roll the dice and see what happens' plan.

 

Im sorry you were given a benzo for insomnia.

 

nz11


2000 amitryptaline, nortriptaline venlafaxine clonazepam for  arm pain from keyboard use, told I had a chemical imbalance it would fix my arm was just a matter of finding the right med for me not informed of the nature of these drugs assured safe and not addictive, CT off Effexor after being told to double the dose on reporting adverse effects...later ..uncharacteristic psych panic tearful presented to doctor to get answers. Given paroxetine no questions asked 'safe and not addictive' next please.2001-2010 paroxetine (paxil) 2 failed attempts to quit, a learned helplessness set in. Feb 10 - Sept 10,  8 month clueless taper, hell. Doc said I had underlying depression .. I said that's not right' then found online support group and the truth!...overcome with inconceivable humiliation and outrage. 28 Sept 10 drug free ...  daily psych and emotional torture beginning in the waking hours of the morning receding somewhat in the evening only to start up again the next day. 28 Sept 12 (24 months) Stabilizing  (What an indescribable unimaginable non-functional nightmare). sleep issues start up at 3 yrs  waking daily at 2am -4.30am), April 2016 return to sport for the first time since drug free, Sept 16 return to work on casual basis.  28 Sept 16 (6yrs drug free), still cant sleep with any regularity, pssd continues no sign of improvement, still feel Rip van Winkle-ish, brain fog still improving, psoriasis concerns.

 

"It is unsafe for people who suffer from something that could be treated with an ssri to consult a psychiatrist." Gotzshe 2015. [ I think Gotzsche could have easily meant to say 'to consult anyone with prescribing privileges']. "Going to a psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous actions a person can take." Breggin

 

“Paroxetine is not safe, it is not effective and it meets every known definition of addictive.” McLaren, N, (2016) 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t’ p55..."Psychiatry is stuffed full of 'deep nonsense' better known as bullsh*t." McLaren 2016

 

"Within the first week of when you go on an antidepressant you may have a sexual dysfunction, it can go on forever, often only appearing when you go off the drug ...its extraordinarily common" Healy 2015

 

See  my intro post #451 for the xanax back story and for a CV -GSKs.  Come on guys get taperwise see a TaperMe Schedule

 For a staggeringly shocking 'prozac back story' see the truth post #523

 

"If I were an enemy combatant and the NZ army did this to me someone would be dragged to the Hague and jailed!"  nz11


#21 gardenlady

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:11 AM

What do you mean when you say the scale is inaccurate? When you put the 10 mg calibration weight on the scale what happens?

 

Both fluctuate significantly in weight when weighing the same thing repeatedly whether using the 10 mg weight or not.  When I calibrate them, they don't reach an exact 10.000....always over or under.  And after that, the weights are all over the place again even right after calibrating.  These scales are pieces of junk.  


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#22 gardenlady

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:14 PM

A couple of new developments have taken place so I thought I'd share here and get your thoughts.  

 

1.  My doctor said that since Valium is a controlled substance, he insists that I keep tapering to get off of it as fast as my body tolerance allows.  He is opposed to my stopping that taper to start the Cymbalta taper. Cymbalta isn't a controlled substance so he said that one can wait. 

 

2.  I was finally able to pry open my 60 mg Citron duloxetine capsule and found that the beads are the same size!  There are approximately 363 beads in a 60 mg capsule.  I had read elsewhere that Citron duloxetine beads were irregularly shaped and in pieces so were not candidates for counting.

 

So, I have to either do what my doctor says, or start the Cymbalta taper while I'm also tapering the Valium.  That's risky since I wouldn't know which drug would be causing which sxs.  But, people have done it.  Any thoughts?  Also, I'm reading about people doing micro bead cuts by cutting very small numbers each day vs cutting 10% all at once once a month.  How does one know which method to use?  And, does the 10% refer to the number of beads or number of milligrams of drug?? 


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#23 Shep

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 03:44 PM

Hi, Gardenlady.

 

So that we are all on the same page, I'm going to link to your newly created benzo thread:

 

gardenlady: On Cymbalta & Tapering Valium

 

My post there also contains some information for your questions raised in your latest post here, too, such as information for a micro taper. 

 

I hope you're feeling better soon. 


Locked up and forced onto drugs as a teenager - misdiagnosed manic depressive.
Developed dependency and stayed on cocktails of drugs for nearly 30 years.

My Intro: Shep's Journey

 

My List of Non-Drug Coping Skills - Non-Drug Coping Toolkit for DP/DR

Last drug cocktail: Seroquel, Halcion, Klonopin, Sonata, Vibrydd, and Dexetrine

After 30 years of polydrug use, completely med free May 22, 2015.

Remaining symptoms: dp/dr with memory problems and insomnia

 

I am not a medical professional, and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs. 

 

 


#24 gardenlady

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:24 AM

I have trouble swallowing large pills, so I need to stick with the smaller size...hoping that the 00 size won't be too big. 

 

My 60 mg Citron duloxetine capsules have between 363 and 372 beads....I've counted only 2 since they are so hard to get pull/twist apart and I haven't yet ordered the empty gelatin capsules.  Would my first cut be 10% or about 36 beads?  And, should I hold there for two weeks until cutting another 10%? I read about people removing 1 bead at a time, so I'm a bit confused.  Thanks. 


Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#25 ChessieCat

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:16 PM

I've moved your post here because it is about your own situation and will keep your questions, answers and history in one place.

 

"should I hold there for two weeks until cutting another 10%?"

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

This topic discusses how to weigh beads:

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses


Reminder to self:      P A T I E N C E       I want to go faster    but I won't

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 24mg (from 19 May 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#26 gardenlady

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 04:46 PM

I am taking a break in my benzo taper (holding at 5 mg diazepam) because I am moving.  I signed a contract on a condo and am prepping my house for sale.  This whole process could take 3 months or so and I need to be functional enough to withstand the rigors and stress of moving.

 

I've decided to start my Cymbalta taper during this time and am on day 8 of a 10% cut from 60 mg to 54 mg.  I am weighing beads using my American Weigh Gemini 20 scale from Amazon.  It does fluctuate, but I will deal with it.  (You get what you pay for.....this thing cost $20).  The plan is to cut every 2 weeks assuming the withdrawal effects aren't too bad.  What is anyone else's experience with cutting 10% every 2 weeks?  Is it risker to shorten the time to every 10 days if I'm not having bad symptoms?  Right now, I'm having late afternoon & evening nausea, but it's manageable. I'd sure like to cut as quickly as possible while avoiding severe withdrawal symptoms, especially while I'm moving.  


Edited by scallywag, 23 May 2017 - 12:34 PM.
moved post about individual situation from "Tips about Tapering Cymbalta"

Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 


#27 Findingmyidentity

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

Hang in there. The fear came over me just thinking about tapering too. But please challenge every anxious or negative thought. See them as not true and no proof you cannot do well without AD. I have been taking vitamin D3, B12, Omega-3 fish oil. As well as magnesium and potassium for withdrawal symptoms. Also take the reduction as slow as you need to. There is no rush, as well as no pressure. I am holding my taper until i feel stable. I also try and accept these symptoms. Good luck to you!


Edited by scallywag, 23 May 2017 - 12:36 PM.
moved response about gardenlady's individual situation from "Tips about Tapering Cymbalta"


#28 gardenlady

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 12:26 PM

I have found that magnesium makes me more anxious which is exactly opposite from others' experiences.  Perhaps it's because I'm also in benzo withdrawal despite still being on 5 mg of it.  I'm avoiding fish oil as it is not recommended during benzo withdrawal.  I did a rapid taper from 13 mg to 5 mg valium in 6 weeks and hit the wall.  So, I'm holding there now and starting the Cymbalta taper.  On day 11 of my first 10% cut, I started having high anxiety and am still having it, so I guess I need to stabilize a bit before cutting another 10%.  I'm kindled from so it's making all of this more difficult.  I need to remain functional since I'm moving.


Edited by scallywag, 23 May 2017 - 12:35 PM.
moved post about individual situation from "Tips about Tapering Cymbalta"

Oct 2016 - crossed over from 20 mg Lexapro to generic Cymbalta 60 mg.  Long history of other ADs.

Mar 13 2017-Tapering 10 mg Valium

Mar 20  - 9 mg V

Mar 27 - 8 mg V

Apr 3 - 7mg V

Apr 10 - 6 mg V

Apr 17 - 5 mg V - Bad symptoms.  Hold V & start Cymbalta taper

May 11 - 54 mg Cymbalta

May 22 - 48 mg C

 

 

 






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