BilboBaggins: hi!

[BilboBaggins]

Hi!

 

I found this website when googling around and reading articles about how to taper off your antidepressants, mainly because I have tried several times (gotta be around 5 or 6 times by now), but I have failed miserably time and time again. Here goes my sad little life-story (I will try to keep it as short as possible but suspect I will not succeed).

 

So, I have always been a pretty depressed and sad person, even as a kid, due to low self-esteem, being very sensitive, et.c. I think you get the picture. Anyway, my perfectionistic, self-hating and insecure personality led me to developing crippling OCD during a stressful job I had three years ago. It was the type of OCD that is called Pure Obsessional OCD, or in more understable terms; obsessive rumination, 24/7, everyday. It is like living through hell everyday, or at least that's how it is for me. Anyway, my OCD which was filled with horrible images and thoughts that I, unknowingly and in total panic-mode, tried to fight (which of course made them a million times worse). This led to me, six months later, quitting my job out of necessity (I was all but fallen apart completely emotionally), and telling a relative that I had to be driven to the psychiatric emergency ward. There, they took me in for two weeks, immediately starting to give me Fluoxetine. Fast forward, I get home, my mind's a complete fog and a lot of the horrible images and thoughts luckily shut off, which was exactly what I needed (and still need). It was a scaring yet necessary feeling for me if I wanted to even survive and not take any desperate measures to get away from my own mind (aka suicide).

Right from the get go of my Fluoxetine-dosage, I was struck by insomnia. Of course, a month later or so when I met a new doctor, I was prescribed an evening pill to be able to sleep. In Sweden it is called Mianzerin, but I'm not sure as to what the English term for the same medicine is. So from that day on, I've been on 30 mg Fluoxetine, 10 mg Mianzerin. The doctor wanted me to take an even higher dose of Mianzerin when my insomnia didn't dissappear right away (of course, that's what doctors want, as rushed and unthought of medication as possible), but I refused a higher dose, and I'm happy that I did that because a couple of days later I started being able to sleep again. Now, the sad part is, that Mianzerin made me instead having to sleep waaay more to feel satisfied waking up (which still doesn't do the trick, no matter for how long I sleep). I'm always tired from this medicine, and the sleep that I have been getting for the last couple of years on these medications have not been even anything close to as satisfying and recharging as a normal, pre-drug, sleep session was. Of course, when I try to explain this sort of ungraspable change in my sleep-feelings, no one of my friends and family understand what I mean. It always seems like they're thinking; "Well, you sleep a good amount of hours right, so that means you're getting a good sleep, right?"
Nothing could be farther away from the truth.

This message became, as I had suspected, a bit longer than I had meant for it to be, but to try to sum things up;

 

My side-effects on 30 mg Fluoxetine + 10 mg Mianzerin:

1. Worse quality of my sleep. Never feeling like I've slept enough.

2. Much higher need of sleeping (because of the Mianzerin). It has, these last couple of years, been almost completely impossible for me to get up early in the mornings. If I set my alarm too early, I either shut it off without even remembering having done it, or I wake up hung-over, almost paralyzed, and insanely tired, from the Mianzerin, making it close to impossible to not just go back to sleep again. If it is something really important that happens in the morning, an appointment or something, I can sometimes force myself to sort of float up through the Mianzerin-fog by immediately reaching for my laptop which I have right next to the bed. Staring at the bright screen for a period of time usually works. But to get as far as that is sometimes impossible, and I've missed out on a number of my university lectures because I could just not muster up the energy to get up in time for school.

3. Night time sweats. These have fortunately become less and less frequent with time. When I first started taking Mianzerin it was every night, now it's only every once in a while (for example, last night I woke up covered in sweat again).

 

4. Impaired eyesight, in the sense that I have a really hard time reading books for long times (and, on many days, even a whole single page if the textfont and size doesn't fit my broken eyes). This has made it a necessity for me to take a break from my University-studies, which I really didn't want to do, but I just couldn't keep up with school when we got assignments like "oh, read these 35 pages as preparation for the next lecture, would you?". I think my eyesight-problems stems from the fact that my medications makes my eyes insanely dry. I have tried regular eyedrops as suggested by my optician, but they didn't do any difference at all.

5. I also believe that it has worsened my pre-existent IBS and anal leakage (sry for the yukky details), which then of course makes my social anxiety even worse, which leads to more isolation (I haven't seen any old friends for over a year now), which of course leads to more depression. I am aware however that my worsening of my stomach problems doesn't necessarily have had to become worse because of my medications, since they were there pre-drugs, but since I started taking these drugs I've been walking around in my tired zombie-mode which means very little physical activity or any activites at all that doesn't involve sitting in front of the computer and staring at meaningless youtube-videos. This, I believe, is why my IBS/leakage-problems have skyrocketed in the last couple of years. Inactivity and tiredness is not a healthy living imho.

So, reading this, you might ask yourself, "Why the hell wouldn't you taper off your drugs? It makes your life so much worse!"

Basic answer: I can't. About five days/a week or so after starting to tapering off with a 10 mg-decrease (which I have now from this message board learned is a way to big cut-down if you're sensitive to it), I get extremely low, my OCD starts once more to attack me more fervently and convincingly (it's always there even on my meds, but it becomes so much worse again), and last time I tried these huge decrease at once I woke up one day feeling totally, utterly; empty, cold, hateful, mean, hopeless, sad, everything bad that you can feel just came over me at once, like a dark cloud, and I rushed home from my morning walk and immediately gulped down that extra 10 mg of fluoxetine again. The sad part is, that besides all the side effects from my drugs, I had been having a couple of really good weeks prior to my dosage-lowering, which is why I, in my desperate attempt to get back to the "real" me, rushed to the conclusion that I was ready to start trying to taper off once again. Ever since that horrifying morning, I have not been able to get back to the good state that I was in prior to it. But, since my wish to get rid of these drugs is so huge, I tried once more a couple of days later after this morning to taper off, but this time after having read that a 10%-lowering was more sensible and should work better if you're sensitive.

Again, this didn't work, and I failed after five days or so once more. Now, I'm back at my regular dose, stuck in my unhappy zombie-mode again, a mode that at least keeps my OCD from getting uncontrollable and the bad voices in my head to become so strong and convincingly once more, and my depression to lead me to the poisoned water of suicide. I realize, with a great unhappiness, that I'm definitely not ready for the moment to try to taper off, since I live in miserable isolation from people and the rest of the world (how I could even think it would work to taper off when I basically spend all my days devoid from friends or any social activities is beyond me).

At the same time, I feel like I'm sort of caught in an incredibly irritating and heartbreaking paradox. It goes like this; I can't begin my tapering off until I have achieved a happy, fulfilling, and rock-steady life filled with normal and joyous social activities and hope for life, et.c., but I feel like I have such a hard time moving towards that goal because of my drugs and the way that they make me a tired, lethargic zombie that just lets the days pass without having the energy to do anything about it. This paradox makes me so frustrated I want to tear my own hair out haha. I can't get healthy on my drugs, but I can't quit my drugs because I'm not healthy enough. I guess that's what they call a moment 22?




End note: Woooow, this became so much longer than I had expected, it was just suppose to be a little introduction haha. Well, what can you do, I applaud those of you who have the willpower to at least skim through it. Now you know how my life situation is. I am not tapering off my meds right now, but I hope to be sometime in the distant future (although that seems extremely distant and impossible right now). I just was happy to find a message board filled with others who seem to have encountered similar problems, and who are too, just like me, struggling to put one foot in front of the other and maybe (hopefully!) transform from being in a constant survivor-mode, to actually starting to enjoy and experience a "normal", happy and fulfilling life.

PS. I apologize for any spelling-errors or weird and incomprehensible usage of words. I'm from Sweden, so my English has it flaws.

PPS. I forgot to mention that I see a psychiatrist on a regular basis, just thought you guys should know so that I can spare you the obvious suggestion of me going to one haha.



 

[PoetJester]

Hey Bilbo

 

Welcome to SA.  Your english is actually pretty excellent.  i had many of the same problems you mention when i was on zoloft and zyprexa.   the last 8 years on the drugs, i would sleep an incredible amount (14-20 hrs a day) and still be exhausted or tired all the time.  I was always so tired that i rarely left my apartment. I later found that i had become anemic and possibly got it from the zoloft.  

 

i also had night sweats several times a week for years and years.  i felt like an old lady going through menopause or something.  Mostly the sweats came when i had these strange, restless, frantic dreams.  I also stopped having wet dreams or nocturnal emissions once i started the drugs.  

 

I quit both medications cold turkey in february 2014, and while before, all i did was sleep, once i quit the pills i could hardly sleep.  I feel better being off the drugs, but not sleeping well often has me wishing for the days when i slept all the time even if i never left my apt and didn't have a social life.  i also had pretty good digestion before i started the pills in 1998 and within a few years i had developed all kinds of problems with my stomach that eventually led to IBS symptoms as well.

 

Now i am dealing with all kinds of fatigue and problems with my short term memory from lack of sleep.  i forget things almost as soon as i think of them and i constantly lose things.  i used to read quite a bit, but have a hard time concentrating now and haven't read hardly anything in 3 years now.  

 

while you may have anal leakage, i have recently in the past six months started developing fecal breath, which comes from   stomach bloating and constipation and possibly intestinal parasites.  i have had some luck fighting it with natural supplements, but it is extremely frustrating to have breath that smells like poop no matter how much i brush and floss.

 

anyways, 

 

i wish you the best of luck if you do try tapering off the pills.  

 

poetjester

[doggiemama]

Poetjester I too C/t meds in 2014 March and still suffer everyday with health anxiety and have lost 13 kilos since all this started so I now weight 44 kgs and its sooooi scary . But all these things take time so let's just stay as strong as possible

[powerback]

Hi Bilbo,to quote doggiemama ,we need to stay as strong as possible ,when it gets to this level of suffering its a must .

We are so strong to put up with such symptoms ,we need to remind ourselves of this everyday .

I am going into my second year of a lot of the same symptoms u write about and I wont lie its getting bad and very hard to cope with but my belief in my self is getting stronger.

I personally don't talk to friends about my symptoms anymore ,its a waste of time ,not there fault they just could never relate to such suffering and I would get frustrated with there reaction ,I'm much better for not talking to them about it ,I recommend sticking to this site ,it will give u everything your  after .

 

I agree with u about the heart breaking paradox ,I worked through symptoms last year but I haven't worked for months now and its very worrying for me .

But I'm so focused on recovery and I believe ill get there some day with an even stronger and tougher character .

 

Please give yourself time it will probably take a while but believe u will get there,moderators are amazing with info.  

 

I also went to a physiatrist and I found it to be a very positive and cathartic process,how could a drug come close to the same result of learning about ourselves and understanding our story .

Take care of your self

[BilboBaggins]

Thank you for your kind words PJ! So sorry to hear about your fecal breathing. I think I know a little bit what you're going through, since people have been complaining about me smelling badly for years now...

 

 

Losing the ability to read books properly has been a big source of sadness for me. Not only has it made my university-studies impossible (having hundreds of pages to read before a big exam got nearly impossible and I had to try to get by on the information that I had heard in the oral lectures throughout the course), it has also taken away my pleasure-reading, which pre-drugs was my biggest and most loved hobby (I have a dream of becoming a writer someday, loooooove books! ). So that sucks, but I'm hoping dearly to get my normal reading abilities back somewhere down the line, years from now. It's just sad to have to give up your favourite-hobby, all because of these "medicines". Hopefully you will get your normal concentration levels back as time passes, PJ. I wish you all the best and that you somewhere down the line gets alleviation from your symptoms!




Thank you for your kind words, powerback! The kindness people give to eachother in the midst of their own hardships on this website amazes me to no end! I sincerely hope that your symptoms will fade away with time. I agree with you on the friends-part, it's absolutely no ones fault that they can't really understand, it's just one of those things that you have to have gone through yourself to sort of be able to grasp the concept of what these type of drugs can do to a human being. Just reading about on this message board makes me so infuriated that the doctors just throws these drugs into the mouths on basically every sad person they come in contact with, without even knowing what terrible, life-destroying effects may be the outcome. And then, when these horrifying side effects does appear, no one believes you and everybody seems to think that it is "all in you head, stop worrying about it and it will go away". Aaaarrrggghhh! Makes me furious haha. Therapy, as you mentioned, is the most valuable thing of all in these kind of situations, or at least that is my own personal belief!

I hope you will find your way back to work eventually, and if not, try not to beat yourself up to badly about it! I myself am battling feelings of guilt and shame for not being able to work as of right now, it really sucks when all my friends are working and having succesful and happy lives, and I'm just standing still in the same, miserable spot that I've been in for years, all alone at home and ruminating over how my life could become this sad, tired zombiefied mess that it is. I guess everybody has their own journey to make, I just wish that mine were a bit more filled with happy things, not just pain and suffering. But I will try my best to keep moving forward, as slowly as a sleepy tortoise, and I really hope the best for all you guys too!

PS. Doggiemama, stay strong!

[BilboBaggins]

Also, just to clarify; When I was talking about how I am seeing a psychiatrist in my first post, what I really meant was a psychologist (I blame my mistake on my bad English haha). The only psychiatrist that I've been to, was about a month ago, and he had pretty much nothing interesting to say. All he did was presenting me with different drugs that he thought were better than the ones I am on right now, of course........ I will not contact him again, since I am determined to with time quit my drugs, not switch them for something else that will without a doubt give me some new and equally horrible (or worse!) side effects...

[powerback]

Bilbo I can relate to so much pain as u,be careful with the ruminating ,it can be very toxic ,I practice mindfulness and it's been very good for me , especially when I'm in public and the slightest thing annoys me due to my horrible iratibility.

THe guilt is a big one for me at the moment,I feel it so strong , because my partner is wanting a holiday and I'm struggling ,in a bad wave at the moment.

Please be careful on comparing yourself to your peer group ,you never asked for this to happen ,we just trusted people.

There is an anger to what happened to us but believe me it will ease and focus on recovery.

Best of luck and care

[ChessieCat]

Hi Bilbo,

 

Welcome to SA.

 

Because of my own current inability to read long posts (sometimes I can, sometimes I have can't) and because none of the mods has welcomed you I thought I would at least give you some links to start you off.

 

Firstly please create a drug signature Create Your Signature.  Please include details for the last 12-18 months of  all drugs, dates, doses and discontinuations & reinstatements.  If you can't remember dates, please write it as "early March" or "mid-August".  Please provide a summary of any drugs prior to that which can just be listed with start and stop years. Please include all prescription, non-prescription drugs and supplements you are currently taking. Phone Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature. Please also remember to update it with date and dose whenever make a change so that it remains current. Thank you.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

This one has links to topics giving tips for tapering specific drugs:

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

 

There is a lot of information and on a wide variety of topics on SA.  To search the site I use google and type in survivingantidepressants.org + topic.

 

This is your Intro/Update topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.  Click "Follow" top right and you will be notified when someone responds.

[BilboBaggins]

Thx again, Powerback! Mindfulness is something that I've just started to look into, seems very interesting and helpful for a lot of people.

And thx for the info, CC! I will fix my signature, just gotta find the energy for it.



I have a question, for anyone who's reading... Ever since i tried to start tapering by, after having spoken to a psychiatrist, reducing my Fluoxetine-dose from 30 mg to 20 mg, and then trying to stick with that for like 5-6 days or so, I've lost all the previous good momentum I had, where I had been feeling really well and happy/"undepressed" for a couple of weeks or so. The best I had felt in years, and people even told me that I seemed so much happier. Now, after that tapering, where I went back to my old dose of 30 mg after only 5 or 6 days, then waited a couple of days, and tried again to taper but by a much smaller dose, roughly 1/12 of my original dose. Anyways, I tried that much smaller decrease for roughly the same amount of days once more (I gotta start to keep track of these things), panicked when I started to not feel well again, and went right back to my old dose, once more. Ever since then, which is about a month ago or so, I have been struggling to get back to my happy place, unsuccessfully, and now I instead feel so much worse than I have in a long time. It's been a rollercoaster. Now, what I'm wondering is basically if it's even possible that my emotional turmoil is because of my tapering-attempts, seeing as how I only tried for so few days, and from what I've read 5 or 6 days shouldn't even be possible to feel any difference on Fluoxetine, which makes me think if it's actually just all in my head.... The longest tapering-effort was this December. Then I made it like 10 days or so before I crashed once more. Maybe that attempt could still be lingering in me (it was also with a 10 mg/33%-lowering). Maybe it's all just in my imagination, since my attempts have been so short and since I know for a fact that I am of the worrying and ruminating kind........ anyone got some wisdom regarding this? I just want to go back to my happy place, and to not feel this dread and inner horror all the time.

[BilboBaggins]

A Little update on my current situation:

I am definitely feeling better now than the last time I wrote, but I have also come to the conclusion that I can't move my life forward on these drugs. I'm so tired of being numb, slow, tired all the time. Life is passing me by. Others at my age work, study, exercise, travel, live, love, laugh... I sit by myself at home, checked out emotionally and mentally thx to my drugs. This is not a way to live life. I'm tired of being weary and at the same time frightened immensely by everything. Time for me to start confronting my problems. I have learned in these last couple of years that without struggle, without pain, without uncomfortable moments, there is no G rowth. There's just status quo....

 

Anyway, hoping this wasn't too cheesy, I just felt like writing what was on my mind. I have decided to start my journey towards an actual life. Tapering is the Only way forward for me. Since I know I've Always been very sensitive to drugs and alcohol, and just a very sensitive person in general, I Will do a very slow tapering, using the 10percent method or something similar to it. I do fear however, that such a slow taper Will just lengthen my wd-pain so that it lasts several years instead of a shorter period of time that might be the Case at a fast taper. Is there any truth to this fear?

 

Anyways,, can'T start my tapering for Another two Weeks, since that was egen my doctor had time. Apparently i have to talk to a doctor before getting a recipe for liquid-fluoxetine.Superannoying to have to wait for two more weeks when it feels like i can't stand Another day of not moving forward.

 

Enough whining, Wishing you all the best!

[BilboBaggins]

Also, just wanted to add that w hat ultimately made me decide to once and for all get rid of these drugs is that last Week i did a lit of physical exercise, which was great for my mood and well being. That is, until the usual hang over that has been appearing everytime i exercise, a phenomenon that started immediately after I started these drugs. I remember my first Days on Prozac. I couldn't even go to the hospital library without getting a Heavy headache. Too much People. Too much stress for my drugged mind. Bloody poison.

 

Anyway, the hang over usually goes a way in a couple of days, but right now it is pretty annoying to be tired all day having an extra slow functioning head which feels Three times its actual weight. All this because of a Little bit of healthy exercise. Again, this is not a way to live life. Time for change.

[powerback]

HI there,exercise hangover is interesting ,i should keep a mood diary because I have upped my exercise considerably the last month ,its become my obsession,I'm very aware of this and i have to stop myself going out again tonight  .

 

I'm very lucky I can get very far away from people for hours and I'm craving this due to my irritability .

 

I also have the constant thought of getting on with my life ,my mind gets mixed up with starting something and then the constant worry  that ile get stuck in a wave for how long ?.

We  can never give up ,I jogged up a hill today and shouted out the negative energy in my system, presuming no one was  around and in the distance I could see a couple looking around for the noise haha    

[BilboBaggins]

Hahaha, thanks for making me laugh powerback it's awesome that you can do physical things like jogging! I am too hoping to be able to do such things in the future. I Believe that my "hang overs" are due to my drug mix of mianserin and Prozac. each apart would probably cause fatigue in me, since it started when I started taking Prozac, and then became even worse when I added mianserin to the mix. It added a general sleepiness, drowsiness all day Long.

 

I'm in a really whiny, grumpy mood today,can one tell haha?

[powerback]

Your welcome haha. i wouldnt be doing marathons or anything like that but ive been uping the intesity and it releives stress in my system,i need to work on my breathing technique ,ive asmtha since i was a kid ,so ive obvious barriers there for going a good distance but jogging up hill is short distance but intense ,really gets the oxygen flowing in the blood .

No crime to be grumpy ha . 

[mammaP]

Hi BB, I just read some of your posts, but have to admit that I am finding it hard to read because of my own problems, so haven't taken it all in. It isn't just your thread, it is books, magazines or anything with the written word!

 

What did jump out at me was where you tried to follow the doctor's instructions and failed. Doctors rarely know about tapering properly, and your brain objected to the big reductions. It takes time for a nervous system to settle down after each attempt. I liken it to getting punched, you fall down but get up again, each punch is harder to get up from until you are comatose. If there was enough time between punches there could be recovery.  (my nephew recently started boxing!) . 

 

Did you get the liquid from your doctor?  If you can't get the liquid you can make your own from tablets or capsules. Indtructions are in the link for tapering that was posted for you.  While the dose is getting lower you could start to feel better, but don't be tempted to speed it up because that will set you back again, stick with  tapering 10% of your current dose and you will get there in the end, and get your life back. 

[BilboBaggins]

Hi BB, I just read some of your posts, but have to admit that I am finding it hard to read because of my own problems, so haven't taken it all in. It isn't just your thread, it is books, magazines or anything with the written word!

 

What did jump out at me was where you tried to follow the doctor's instructions and failed. Doctors rarely know about tapering properly, and your brain objected to the big reductions. It takes time for a nervous system to settle down after each attempt. I liken it to getting punched, you fall down but get up again, each punch is harder to get up from until you are comatose. If there was enough time between punches there could be recovery.  (my nephew recently started boxing!) . 

 

Did you get the liquid from your doctor?  If you can't get the liquid you can make your own from tablets or capsules. Indtructions are in the link for tapering that was posted for you.  While the dose is getting lower you could start to feel better, but don't be tempted to speed it up because that will set you back again, stick with  tapering 10% of your current dose and you will get there in the end, and get your life back. 

Hi! Thanks for writing! I saw your post here today, since I have had a major crash since last time, and I've been too low to have the energy to be on this site, and also kind of embarrased over the fact that I pumped myself up so much in my last posts and then just totally broke down mentally haha, fail So the beginning of my tapering got postponed, and I logged out from here.

 

Now I'm starting to feel better. My doctor didn't think it was a good idea to use the liquid form, since he said that it might give different reactions than the tablet-form, but he said that he would prescribe me a recipe for it anyway if I wanted to. So I'm just waiting to find some stability, and then I will hopefully be able to begin this long journey, but who knows, maybe I'll just crash once more, I'm taking nothing for granted when in comes to my health anymore hehe.

 

My stomach issues have not gotten any better, at all. I went to a private diet-expert a couple of days ago. She thought that I should try paleo. So today was the first day of a complete paleo-eating. It's been disastrous. Stomach pains, diarrea...... So I'm still isolated at home, shitting my pants on a daily basis. Oh, well, dear old life always knows how to get you in a good mood, haha

 

Some good news is that I've been able to find energy to rewrite/edit on my novel these last days, and that I think I'm getting better and better at editing it. I always feel so much better mentally when I'm in a good writing routine. It makes me feel like the long, tired days have a purpose. And it gets my mind off my misery. So if anyone reading this, I guess some sort of advice from me would be to spend time on the hobbies that you enjoy, even if you don't think you have the energy or will for it At least in my own experience, pushing through the sadness and tiredness and activating myself, instead of just laying around in bed, focusing on how unhappy I am and staring at the computer screen all day, makes all the difference in the world to me. It can turn a dark day into brightness, removing the curtains of misery to feel the sunshine on your face.

 

Peace and best wishes to you all

 

 

[mammaP]

Any diet takes some time to get used to and our bodies will complain loudly.   

 

You can make a liquid from tablets, then you are getting the same drug. He is right that some people can react to the change. I tried liquid effexor and reacted to it, my mouth burned and was really sore after a few days. My stomach was bad too so I went back to counting beads from the capsules. 

 

Quote

Some good news is that I've been able to find energy to rewrite/edit on my novel these last days, and that I think I'm getting better and better at editing it. I always feel so much better mentally when I'm in a good writing routine. It makes me feel like the long, tired days have a purpose. And it gets my mind off my misery. So if anyone reading this, I guess some sort of advice from me would be to spend time on the hobbies that you enjoy, even if you don't think you have the energy or will for it   At least in my own experience, pushing through the sadness and tiredness and activating myself, instead of just laying around in bed, focusing on how unhappy I am and staring at the computer screen all day, makes all the difference in the world to me. It can turn a dark day into brightness, removing the curtains of misery to feel the sunshine on your face.

 

This is really good to see, having a hobby makes such a difference.

[BilboBaggins]

Oh, that doesn't sound like fun, hoping my reaction to the liquid form will be better

 

A little update: About 1,5 weeks in to the paleo-diet. So far, no improvements. Tired of never, never, never, finding a solution, my gut issues has been going on for so many years now and they never cease. God damn it!!!

[BilboBaggins]

So, a question; Anyone here that has any experience with liquid Fluoxetine? The version that's available here in Sweden, has some added ingredients that I'm a bit concerned about. Sucrose/saccharose, 0,24% alcohol, some mint flavour... Just a bit worried about how my sensitive stomach will deal with it, so it would be interesting to know how others have experienced the liquid form.

[ChessieCat]

From Post #1 Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

Making your own Prozac liquid
Prozac is one of the few psychiatric medications with a long history of do-it-yourself dilution in water or juice. Mixed in cranberry juice, it's been called "Cranzac."

My own personal preference would be to dilute it with water, to avoid any degradation that might be caused by sugar or acid in the juice. Also, it will be easier to see how well the Prozac is dissolved in water. (There may be particles swirling around, that's the filler in the Prozac capsule that doesn't dissolve.)

Your Prozac solution may be a little bitter -- just swallow it quickly. You might want to chase it with a little fruit juice.

For very gradual tapering, for example, you can dissolve a 10mg capsule in 10mL of water to make a solution with 1mg Prozac in 1mg of water. To take 1mg Prozac, use an oral syringe to take out 1mL.

Refrigerated, it's supposed to be stable for 14 days.

This can be a very precise way to taper.

 

Also:

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques

 

Where to get oral syringes

[BilboBaggins]

So I screwed up. Being overly confident cause I had some really good days, and being afraid of how I was going to react to the comercially prepared liquid prozac, and at the same time deciding that it would be too much work to make my own prozac-liquid (I didn't an experiment where I tried to open a capsule and pour the powder in water, the capsule splashed open and powder flew everywhere, not very precise....). So I thought, if I can't make it precise, I might just do it the old pill-cutting way. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

 

So, from the 1st of june through the third (three days in total), I took a smaller dose where I cut my 10mg-pill to roughly 3/4 of its original size, taken with my whole 20mg. Of course, roughly, that is, not precise in the least bit. Then, on the morning of the fourth, I got too scared, thinking that I wasn't yet ready to taper because of all my ocd, so I went back to my usual dose that morning. Fast forward, three days later, I decide to make another try this way (I had yet to experience any horrible side-effects other than the usual anxiety, so I thought I would be one of those people who could taper a little bit more uncarefully and unprecise, skipping and hopping up and down as I felt like). Once more, from the seventh through the ninth, three more days that is, I cut my 10 mg to 3/4, and took it together with my 20mg. Everything seems good, seems fine. Last night, I started feeling weird. When I was going to sleep, I literally could not fall asleep, just the same horrible feeling of not getting to sleep that I experienced when I started these drugs, before I started taking mianzerin in the evening as a solution to my drug-induced insomnia. Yesterday evening I might actually have missed taking my mianzerin-pill (I can't remember if I took it or not), but that should not be the reason for this insomnia, since I've missed my mianzerin several times before over the years and always managed to fall asleep anyway, just continuing taking it again the evening after that again and being fine. So the insomnia, in my conclusion, was because of the dosage-differences previous to this night.

Today I feel like utter ****. Utter ****. I'm one of those people who breaks down in every possible way if I don't get a good nights sleep every single night. I'm guessing I experienced this horrible insomnia because of the roller coaster I sent my brain through with my doses from the first until this morning. This morning I immediately went back to my usual dose. Now I'm going to stay on this dose for a good while. I got a newfound respect for how important it is for some people, some unlucky few, to make a very slow and precise taper. Sadly, I seem to be one of those people. So right now my only mission is to stabilize once again, hoping that my insomnia does not stick around. Hopefully, my brain will feel that everything has gone back to "normal".

This experience has definitely humbled me. It may sound little and insignificant, compared to the constant hell a lot of other people around here go through, and that's because it is a small, pretty mild experience. But I'm going to take it as a clear sign that the way forward for me is going to be a slow and long process. So, I guess something good came out of this.

Today is a day of being sad and down. Guess this will be a much longer journey than I had hoped. It will take me several years, from when I actually begin my slow taper. As for this moment, I'm going to stabilize at my original dose for a long time, whilst working on my mental health, mindfulness, mild excercise, writing on my novel, trying to be more social and get out of the house more, finding a solution for my stomach issues, et.c. Just trying to move in a positive direction, slowly. Educating myself on health and trying to use the knowledge I find in my actual day-to-day-life. Feels a bit overpowering today, since I feel like I've been dragged through mud and left in the sun to dry out like a grape haha.

On a more positive note, OITNB came out with a new season on Netflix yesterday. Gotta appreciate the little things!  

[BilboBaggins]

Also, just to add, I have tried the paleo-diet the last month, which means much less carbs and more fat, and a couple of days ago I met my dietist again. She suggested I tried to go even more low carb, removing all the fruit from my diet too. So since the day before yesterday, the day before the insomnia, I've been going full low-carb. That might definitely have contributed to why this particular dosage-change seems to have been extra hard on me, since I feel my body is stressed out an extra amount by trying to go low carb. Maybe that's the reason why this dosage-change hit me harder than the other ones have, or maybe it was because my brain is extra sensitive after all the times that I've tried to start tapering by now. Also, another factor might be that every dose was impossible to get exactly as big as the others, so everyday has basically been with little micro-changes in my dosage. Phew, tired of writing now haha. Time to watch some Netflix.

[BilboBaggins]

*Just one more thing, in my first post of today, it should of course say that i did an experiment, not that I didn't!

[scallywag]

Bilbo, Remember the 3KIS: Keep it slow. Keep it simple. Keep it stable.

 

Make one dietary change at a time and make it a gradual shift ratter than a sudden change.  The dietician probably knows nothing about sensitized CNS due to pyschotropic medication. 

[BilboBaggins]

Yes, I need to think about that. My problem is just that when I feel good for a while I get overly confident in my abilities to cope with tapering.

 

Update since last time: Been very tired and feeling low, especially the last two days, with moments of an apathetic sort of drowsiness. Also been extremely thirsty, like, getting moments where my throat just dries up to the point where I just have to get water (not for survival or anything, just because it feels like I got sand in my mouth and throat). Don't know if this is diet or taper-related, or both.

[BilboBaggins]

A little update: Felt that it would be worth giving physical exercise another try. Did it for about a week or so last week. Felt wonderful the first couple of days. Then the usual hangover set in. The tiredness, anxiousness, et.c. Thought that it might be something that I just had to "work my way through" to get rid of. So I worked out (mostly strength stuff, but also some cardio) one more time, and afterwards I just hit a wall of tiredness and anxiousness. That was friday last week. Now I've rested for a couple of days, starting to feel better again.

 

I have also given up the paleo-diet. It merely made my stomach-issues way worse, and my stomach has been extra-weird since I started it. Now I'm sort of at a loss of ideas as to what could possibly solve my gut- issues.

 

Also, my OCD has been acting up more than usual, thanks to my overexertion. Starting to feel that I will never find a solution to my problems, but trying to keep my hopes up! It's just tiresome sometimes when it feels like you just can't win against life, but I try my best not to over-indulge in self-pity haha. 

[scallywag]

How intense was your workout?  It's usually best to start out gently and very gradually increase the intensity, if at all.

 

How sudden was the switch to eating Paleo? If you did it all at once, it may have been too much too soon for your CNS.

 

I hope that you bounce back quickly from this experience.  Please keep in mind that you need to take things easy and make any changes slowly and gradually. 

[BilboBaggins]

Well, I guess it's all relative when it comes to intensity, but it was at least very intense from my perspective! I just realized that even though I feel wonderful the first couple of days when I try to start exercising, more energized, warm and happy, one symptom that always occurs since on these medicines is that whenever I do something physically exhausting like exercise, I have  a much harder time falling asleep at night, and I wake up earlier in the morning, not feeling fully "recharged" sleep-wise. Like I awake some stress-response in my body. Maybe the drugs that I'm on have messed up my ability to "de-stress" the stress that is physical exercise. Like, not being good at the antiinflammatory responses, or something...

The annoying thing is, that these type of symptoms seems to appear even when I do very light exercise. Like I'm too weak for almost everything haha. Maybe I will have to stick with long walks and perhaps some yoga with that.

The Paleo-switching was sort of immediate, although the first month I ate a fair amount of carbs in form of some fruit and also sweet potatoes every now and then. Then I tried going more towards a completely low carb-paleo. Neither of the alternatives seemed to fit right with my body, brain, or stomach. 

Yes, I will try to act on the side of caution from now on It's just frustrating, these drugs, for some people like most people here, really seem to mess up a lot of the bodys natural responses and functions, which becomes so irritating when you try to make positive life-changes but keep running in to brick walls. And the worst part is that a part of myself gets angry at me and tries to tell me that all these problems are not because of the drugs but because it's all in my head and my imagination, or that I give up too easily et.c..... And my psychologist which is really good in all the other areas of psychological issues not relating to pharmaceuticals, is always so god damn skeptical to my side effects from the drugs, and I feel like he's always trying to convince me that it's "all in my head", which makes me insecure and anxious, even though I know for a fact a lot of side effects is from the drugs.

[BilboBaggins]

These past couple of weeks I've been suffering from a weird humming noise in my right ear. Seems to appear when I do stuff that demands concentration, especially writing on my book (it takes a lot of creative and intellectual concentration and effort, which is tough to muster when your whole head always is like one big fog). Guess it's some sort of weird stress response or something. I've also been very isolated these last weeks, and it's been hell for my mental health. I'm soooooo tired it's ridiculous. Things that used to bring me joy now feels like angst-driven and overwhelming tasks. I can't write cause that will enhance the humming in my ear. And when I try to work out physically I get my usual "hang over".

Right now I feel so depressed everyday. Not in the sense that I hate life, it's just that I'm supertired, numb, have no energy or motivation to do anything, can't do the things I enjoy, feel like I'm never moving forward in life. Everytime I try to be productive and move my life forward, everytime I try to find a solution to my problems, it feels like I just keep failing and crashing.

On a positive note, I'm really gonna try my best to pass two school-exams that I'm behind on, so that I can start my uni education again  (right now I have taken a break from uni). If I can go back to school I won't be socially isolated, I will get some money every month so that I can afford to buy liquid prozac and start a slow taper, and hopefully get my life going again. I just hope that I can handle the study-pace and then later on working in my field. We'll see, I guess. Trying to stay hopeful and wish for better days to come! After years of numb misery and social isolation it would be nice if things could start to turn around just a little bit, some small step or sign of progress that I would desperately need to feel a bit invigorated.

[BilboBaggins]

Hi!

 

Because of the fact that liquid prozac is apparently super-expensive to get where I live, I now am trying to experiment with making my own liquid. First I took one pill of the 10 mg-prozac that I take everyday (I take one 20mg and one 10mg everyday), and put it in a glass with a bit of water. No measuring, just to see if it dissolved. This 10mg-pill is made to be able to dissolve on your tounge for those who can't swallow pills. Anyways, that pill didn't mix with the water at all. it dissolved, but everything just lays as a powder at the bottom of the glass. So I tried in a new glass one of my 20mgs-tablets, which is made to be swallowed just like a capsule, and it seems to have dissolved, I think.... The water at least changed colours to like a watered down milk-sort of shade, which is better than the first glass where the water didn't change colour at all. But even the second one is filled with tiny little bits of powder which naturally sinks to the bottom. Is that only the filler-material, as I've read in the thread about making prozac-liquid? The fact that the water has changed color to a blurry white (it basically looks exactly like fog), does that mean that the actual prozac has been mixed with the water? So confusing, haha, but I would really like to be able to make my own liquid since that would save me a loooot of money over time.

[BilboBaggins]

anyone?

[BilboBaggins]

Bumping this up again Hope that's ok to do!

[ChessieCat]

From http://www.raisingchildren.net.au/forum/Topic51644.aspx

 

They are discussing dissolving Lovan tablets (Lovan is an international brand name for the drug fluoxetine)

 

"I had to dilute it in water, but honestly, it tasted feral."

 

"Thanks Haylee, that will explain why she spat it at me when I gave it in water!!!! We gave it in rice milk with a bit of milo this morning, and she was fine with it. I checked with the chemist and he said it was fine to do that, so thats all good."

 

"Hello, my DS is on lovan and its the best thing I ever did!!! at the start we had to dissolve 1 tablet 20mg in 10ml of water and give him 1ml every day ..."

 

I hope that helps.

[BilboBaggins]

On 2017-11-21 at 2:57 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

Thanks for the answer, but that thread mainly just confirms that it is possible to dillute it in water. My question was more to the point of when do I know that it has dilluted? Is the white powder pieces on the  bottom just filler, and does the fact that the water turned pale white/foggy show that the tablet has been mixed with the water properly? Hoping that someone who've done this with prozac can answer.   (

[BilboBaggins]

Bumping this up

[AliG]

Hi Bilbo.

On 11/16/2017 at 10:41 PM, BilboBaggins said:

Anyways, that pill didn't mix with the water at all. it dissolved, but everything just lays as a powder at the bottom of the glass. So I tried in a new glass one of my 20mgs-tablets, which is made to be swallowed just like a capsule, and it seems to have dissolved, I think.... The water at least changed colours to like a watered down milk-sort of shade, which is better than the first glass where the water didn't change colour at all. But even the second one is filled with tiny little bits of powder which naturally sinks to the bottom. Is that only the filler-material, as I've read in the thread about making prozac-liquid

 

The filler doesn't dissolve and tends to settle on the bottom, so you will need to put the cap on your jar and shake gently ~ then draw from the middle, not the top as there may be less drug there.

 

There is a video in post # 1 of this thread that shows you how to do this, as well as other tips on making your own liquid. It is not Prozac but the mechanics are the same.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

 

It would be worthwhile, reading through this topic again, also.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine/

 

I hope this answers your question.

Ali