Don't waste your money on Truehope, The Road Back, Point of Return, Label Me Sane, Hardy Nutritionals

[ItsNearlyMedlessKateAgain]

I'm glad I found this thread. I was going to buy EmpowerPlus from Truehope based on Paula Caplan's videos on Mad In America about multinutrient therapy. Now I don't know what to think. I hadn't bought them yet because they are so expensive. I can buy a bottle of those a month or get a 60 minute massage but not both. Guess I'm going with the massage.

 

One question though - Alto said no mixed supplements but does that include stuff like B-complex with multiple B vitamins too, or just the multivitamin/multiherb supplements?

[Altostrata]

People sometimes have problems with B vitamins. You might be able to take one but not another. If you have a bad reaction to a multiple B vitamin supplement, you'll have to throw the entire bottle away.

[ItsNearlyMedlessKateAgain]

Thanks. I have been taking them for about a month and have not noticed any negative reaction but I will monitor.

[ingridphoenix]

I decided to take D3, B12 and Omegas w/DHA EPA. 

I also opted to take some "brain builders" amino acids, mainly those to help me sleep.

Too long of a list.

I too do not wish to take one-size-fits-all - but I am all for trying the nutritional approach.

Having been depressed forever, exacerbated by the use of anti-depressants no less, I certainly do not have the energy (yet) to try and get all my nutrients via a balanced diet.

I hope this will change in the near future.

I am off my meds now. Only Trazadone left. Its time will come soon, just not yet.

Still suffering side-effects I had BEFORE I started tapering, but so much less now - 

Excited about the re-emergence of Me.

One day at a time. Drinking herbal teas and watching what I put in my body.

Supplements do have a place in all this - you just have to do some research and not just jump and buy something that is branded as a miracle fix.

wishing all who read this the very best

[nicgab]

Hi,

I just joined this forum as a Mom with twins with Autism who are on there second attempt to taper off Prozac. The first attempt was an absolute failure following there pediatric Neurologist recommended taper schedule which was way to fast and sent my non-verbal son into basically I would call a manic phase that ended him up on Abilify along with having to reinstate his Prozac....and my daughter for three months devoloped full facial and body tics along with depression. Her Prozac was reinstated as well and the doctors because of there developmental disabilities tend to blame all the withdrawal symptoms they experienced on there disability and not on the medication so I am there only voice .

They were placed on this medicine for very minor reasons to start and now unfortunately it has caused them more difficulty, and I'm praying not a lifetime supply of withdrawal symptoms that cannot be reversed.

I could seriously write for days what we have been through with our journey tapeing a lone which began in the spring of 2015 but felt really compelled to write to say that we were really in a dark place over the past few months with my son in particular as he was tapered off completely from Prozac before my daughter currently because it was before I realized and read that it was better to switch to a liquid to taper even slower though I did taper him slow off his Prozac pills even to the point of shaving them.

My son immediately was experiencing the typical withdrawal symptoms and no one unless in my same shoes with a child with a disability and being nonverbal knows the feeling of helplessness as his Mom that I felt. He was anxious and irritable, he wanted to crawl out of his own skin and this feeling of restlessness was relentless and he just whined constantly. The head symptoms I know he felt were overwhelming as he would sit and lay on his bed with his eyes closed and couldn't even use his iPad which he uses an app to communicate with us. He even became aggressive because I think the symptoms he was experiencing were so overwhelming. Mind you, he was never like this normally.

I had to keep him home from school as he was basically crippled from his symptoms. I did research before and am I believer in supplements for general health overall and tried to give my kids basic supplements to assist them , especially with what I knew they were not getting in there diets as they are picky eaters ,etc. but I knew he honestly needed more help and if I was to contact his doctor that would only suggest what they suggested to me this same time last year...put him on an antipsychotic and it's his autism.

I am very protective of my children and any and all things that I give them ( did think I was helping them when I agreed to put them on Prozac) .

Not being able to watch my son suffer withdrawal symptoms anymore and seeing my daughter only halfway through the taper and facial tics creeping up again I have been searching the web aimlessly day and night for help and support and am well aware of scams and people preying off of others suffering for there own gain.

Well I kept coming across Jim Harper and The Road Back Program so after maybe two weeks I did decide to send him an email about my kids and my story and he agreed to help and guide , please just know that he is not someone just to throw someone on his supplements without asking you in depth questions . He only decided to put my son on one supplement first after asking me to give him a list of him symptoms starting with the most severe first and wanted me to send him what I was currently giving him including links with the supplemental fact ingredients to them.

He took the time to evaluate this and suggested one supplement first to address his high anxiety and irritability which was preventing him from even attending school and which was causing him to get aggressive.

After a few days I had to write back and give him an update on how this supplement was addressing this issue and he already informed me prior that he would then suggest an omega supplement with vitamin e ( apparently Vit e is needed to absorb) omega) .

I had told him that I was currently giving my children an omega and he told me not to stop but after sending him the supplemental fact ingredients he just suggested and recommended and explained in detail why he would suggest an omega with a higher epa and made with anchovies and not krill which I was giving. How it helps head symptoms although krill is a good omega , etc.

He does not push the supplements sold by his company .

This is where we are in the process and I just wanted to add my input. Over the past week my son is back in school. He is laughing and smiling again. I cannot tell you how this makes me feel as his mom that I reached out to this man through email and asked for help and guidance and through no obligation he has wrote me and corresponded with me everyday and wants updates ...and it's genuine. Believe me, I feel like I am in this withdrawal process full throttle with my children . I know everyone has to have there guard up when it comes to issues like this.

I have Multiple Sclerosis myself and have been through my fair share of things that haven't worked in hopes of helping certain symptoms... Please just know that this man and this program is truly and should not be called by no means a scam.

It is not .

And please ... I am a mom of 17 year old autistic twins and do not want to hear negative feedback though I have developed thick skin over the years. Just wanted to offer my experience so far and so far and am very grateful to this program and this man for his help and assistance at no obligation for anything but just writing him and asking for help.

Thank you for listening.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

While we certainly appreciate your input that does not change Survivingantidepressants.org's stance that these supplements are overpriced and not helpful for those of us suffering from withdrawal syndrome.

 

You did realize you joined a forum dedicated to helping people taper safely off antidepressants, right? Is there some way we can help you with this?

 

While you requested no negative feedback, I am sure you will take this as such. People here can be greatly harmed by these supplements and we absolutely do not advocate them. The Administrator of this board was the one who started this topic, by the way.

 

When I myself did research on the Road Back, I discovered the owner has ties to Scientology and is the manufacturer of the supplements too. It was a good thing they refunded the $325 initial order I made before finding this site, their supplements would have done nothing to help me and may have made me very ill (besides emptying my wallet of money I could ill afford to lose). Because in your opinion you feel it is not a scam, does not mean others have not found it so.

[nicgab]

Hi,

My input was just that ... It was offering my input , my past and present experience for which I am living through with my children.

I think for anyone who has experienced this whether tried and failed and is trying again.. I thought forums where to offer your experience and information. I am not promoting anything , like I said I am currently in the early stages of following advice from this program and had excellent results so far trying one supplement with my son as he was already on one that was suggested but to hold off on and it was suggested to introduce one at a time.

If this forum is against supplements all together then maybe I am in the wrong place. You asked if you can help me with this?

No , you cannot. Like I said , I was just offering my experience..not promoting. Maybe you should think before you answer people the way you do. I did see the administrator started the conversation. Doesn't change my opinion on being able to offer my experience. Just thought that's what forums were for . I will resign as there is help and support many other places with open discussions.

I by far have no ties to Scientology... Lol

We live in America and people have to right to practice whatever religion they believe in. I simply asked for help and guidance for my twins and was offered such under no obligation as I was already supplementing my children with vitamins and wanted and asked what else I could do to help my sons severe withdrawal symptoms.

If others feel it's a scam obviously people are entitled to there opinions. And I am not being rude or obnoxious to anyone saying so.

Wish everyone well .

[westcoast]

I I forked over some cash for Body Calm Supreme and Neuro Endure Mini. People were discussing them here, but I don't recall anyone endorsing them especially.

Each has four components:

 

Body calm:

Passiflora incarnata, L-Theanine, Montmorency Cherry, and Benfotiamine

 

Neuro-endure:

Acetyl-L-Carnitine, N-Acetylene Cysteine, L-Glutamine, Bacopa monnieri

 

All the individual ingredients are reasonable. Can't say I noticed anything, but I was doing so poorly at the time that nothing could break through it. Well I think coconut oil and butter from the milk of grass fed cattle did do something major when I eventually tried them.

 

I just found out the bark of the tree in my childhood home's front yard is considered an anxiolytic. The whole time my family was driving each other nuts, we could have been drinking bark tea and chilling.

[Marsha]

I want you all to know that if I had found SA before Jim Harper and neurogeneticsolutions who emptied my and my children's pocketbooks, my children would have helped pay for a doctor that Altostrata recommended within driving distance of where I live. I would not be in the position I am in today I believe.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

I thought forums where to offer your experience and information

 

Some forums are but this one has a very specific purpose which apparently you neglected to understand before you joined.

 

Those supplements can not only make some us very sick if we take them in addition to being overpriced and not of any benefit whatsoever to someone in withdrawal syndrome.

 

We are not looking for testimomials from someone in the general internet and when a person such as yourself shows up and gives a glowing review of these products, we must step in and say we don't recommend them here.

 

Your attitude is highly disrespectful, which I knew it would be. Especially when I pointed out in frank language where you missed the mark. Perhaps you really SHOULD move along and find another group to drop in on and add your feedback where it serves no good for the group's stated purpose and goes directly against the recommendation of the group's  owner.

 

Look at it this way: were I to enter YOUR autism support group and start my comments by saying that any doctor who puts teenagers on an antidepressant should lose his license, how would YOU feel? (And by the way, that IS how we feel.)

 

Perhaps you might want to study what our group is all about, after reading your story it is highly likely you could benefit from our wisdom but maybe only after your children suffer terribly from protracted withdrawal syndrome after being fed high priced supplements with no demonstrated value except that stated by their purveyor and other "testimonials" on 'the internet'.

 

By the way, I find it odd that Jim Harper did not suggest you purchase supplements recommended by REAL doctors instead of his own, seeing as how he is not a medical doctor. Drs. Weil and Mercola have many supplements they recommend and they are bona fide medical doctors, albeit ones who stand to profit immensely from selling 'supplements' along with giving their alternative medical advice, some of which would be more helpful than Harper's.

[Brandy]

nicgab, I want to commend you on being such a wonderful advocate for your autistic children. Especially for protecting them from getting more meds you don't feel they need or should have, and for making the effort to find out the safest ways to taper, such as using liquid to do the very slow tapers that most doctors are almost always completely unaware of the need for. Your children are incredibly fortunate.

 

I will say that having been in withdrawal groups for over years, it is true that most people have had bad setbacks from using some programs' advice including The Road Back. But they were given what sounds like generalized advice options based on the meds they were on, and there were a couple of people (in various groups) who did not have bad reactions and felt the program likely helped them.

 

The key may be that countless people were given a blanket "paint by numbers" list of supplements that included many ingredients (including some that this group does urge people to try). We have found that trying supplements one at a time, and starting with very low doses, has helped prevent a lot of problems. And that taking supplement ingredients individually, at least at first, helps identify which supplements any given individual finds helpful and which causes setbacks or severe bad reactions. (I for one cannot take even tiny amounts of magnesium or fish products without severe bad reactions. BUT I do encourage others to try them, since so many people have benefited from them.)

 

I have been told by someone who is not in this group that the owner of The Road Back (I think I'm thinking of the right program) has learned about withdrawal from what he has read on groups like this. That could be a good thing, since doctors are not getting the full or correct information about what too many of us experience from neurotropic meds and especially from discontinuing them. Problems others have had may be that he probably hasn't had time to familiarize himself with the enormous number of variations different peoples' bodies experience. Or perhaps more recently has. At least, in your case, he seems to have taken a very cautious and careful approach individually suited to one or both of your children, and been of great help to you. It certainly sounds like he is giving you individualized help that addresses your childrens' autism.

 

Please know that we are a large group with many different experiences and often very different responses to meds and to how best to taper in terms of our individual needs. I agree with Alto that the supplement regimens The Road Back - and many other programs and books - have advised, are something to be wary of. I am referring to the "withdrawal formula packages" so many people in withdrawal were given. The same advice is given to people (many of them!) who go to naturopaths who prescribe large lists of supplements that address symptoms (anxiety, insomnia, etc.) that match those of withdrawal, but many of which usually cause worsening of withdrawal for most of us. As I mentioned, I urge people to take each ingredient separately and wait a while to judge their body's response - and even then to remember if their condition changes later, that the body's response may change over the course of the "withdrawal" which more accurately should be described as a complex healing process of the nervous system IMO. (I found that supplements that had repeatedly greatly benefited some of my many medical  conditions at the times I had used them before withdrawal, turned on me and bit me in the ass once I was in withdrawal. I still use certain supplements, but had to wait many years and lower the dosage of some, and in other cases I am using completely different supplements. Again, tried one at a time, and more than one separate time if not sure if new or worsened symptoms were just coincidences or not. Our bodies can and do change over time.

 

It does sound like in your experience with The Road Back, such caution and care was taken and I am very glad that it helped your son. And I repeat my gratitude that your are such a strong and careful advocate of your children's care. I have been in the position of having to do something similar for loved ones over time, though different conditions, but where they couldn't communicate or act on their own behalf. There is no way to describe how difficult that is, and I admire you more than words can tell. I just wish I had known many things I know now, and it was enormously difficult (and in some cases impossible) to stand up the medical establishment. You are an absolutely terrific, very special mom.

 

As for the supplements, the positions given here have good reasons in that they are based on the experiences a very large number of people have had over many, many years. But as I said, if you are getting advice that benefits your children or find something is helping your child, certainly stick with it. Just take it slowly and observe symptoms over time. (I recommend keeping logs of meds/supplements taken and dose, as well as symptoms; many things are coincidences, but it helps to see consistent patterns - good or bad - over time. A doctor advised me to do this a very long time ago, and although it's annoying to remember to do it and most of the information is never needed again, it has many times been invaluable in sorting some things out when I was in absolute hell.)

 

My advice is to keep on doing what is working for your child, whether it is the exception to the rule or not. (I am very often the exception to rules - especially due to extraordinarily severe allergies and sensitivities to various substances, and also some paradoxical reactions to some meds and even supplements - some occurring even before meds and withdrawals. In fact, in hindsight I realize too many of them were prescribed to mask what I now have reasons to believe were severe reactions to common nutritional and over-the-counter items. or meds for serious medical conditions but where the meds caused more problems than they solved.)

 

Where we may be able to of help to you might be in helping any tapering problems you may run into, and how best to taper off liquid meds in tiny precise doses and schedules that may need to be adjusted occasionally in the course of withdrawal. Tapering advice is not my area of expertise (I only wish I'd known to do that back then!), but I have found excellent information on how best to use some liquids, and also how to assess fluctuating reactions to substances as the body changes during the healing process from these meds. If I can help on any of this, or just be moral support on the enormous but rewarding job of protecting and advocating for your children, feel free to PM me. (If I don't answer right away, don't feel rejected. I not only read and post here only intermittently, but am notoriously and shamefully bad at checking email. But I do things as I'm able and won't knowingly ignore you!) Very best wishes to you!

[nicgab]

Oh my Brandy,

Cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time and effort in your very respectful response.

As disrespectful as the person above you is... Some people just don't know how to be respectful of others and maybe think before they disrespect everything they have to say.. I am well aware that this is a sensitive subject and not a one size fits all remedy . By far it is the complete opposite and a sensitive subject to many who are in the midst of chaos both mind and body seeking help and support.

I think it best that I move on because just looking over this past thread this person has used words to attack anyone who wrote about any program of supplements they tried. Instead of maybe truly looking into the content of what there writing it is hauled off as promoting a program when I'm clearing just trying to point out where I was now in my journey with my kids...taking one supplement from this program in particular...not a package of supplements. I really didn't consider myself on anyone's program to be honest with you. Just seeking advice and guidance.

Maybe I was not be clear, and you did point out that I'm sure some people go on some of these sites and purchase these " packages " of supplements which could very well make them feel worse or interact with something, etc. I know my son in particular is so very sensitive to medicine. Maybe people go on and purchase these packages without realizing that they should get directions first and can and should be directed first. I don't think there intended to be taken at once but isolate and done one at a time. I think people are so desperate for relief there willing to try anything. I know I felt this for my children.

My son at the moment is only on one like I said called Body Calm that has 2 herbs in it : Passion flower and sour cherry only.

I was accused of giving " a glowing review of products " . There is nothing I hate more then people putting words in my mouth because I would love to know what glowing review of products I gave.

Previous, I had been giving my children- what I considered simple supplements like omega, Vit. E, magnesium, isolated b vitamins... And I just felt when this wasn't working and when I thought I could be giving them things causing them more stress with the withdrawal I reached out for help...and believe me , this was after many many months and countless research I tried to do myself with no help from there medical professionals. I am a registered nurse myself so am not ignorant to the medical field.

I had actually purchased two of the supplements from there website before I realized you could contact the program director because we just had a really bad day with my son and he literally didn't sleep going on 4 days.. When I was contacted back the next day because I wrote on a Sunday and I was asked a wealth of information and told not to give the other supplement I ordered when received but did recommend the one and for me to try that and keep notes, etc. He gave me recommendations on what he already takes.. My son has to take b12 folic acid for a genetic blood clotting disorder and he suggested to change to folate as he feels folic acid causes anxiety and folate more absorbable. Because I was already giving my children omega fish oil he didn't want me to stop but just recommended a change over to one with a higher epa grade. He said he would of originally waited to add it in later but since already taking for long time no need to stop. He said a fish oil omega with anchovies helps the head symptoms of withdrawal and to make sure to take vitamin e with this 400 iu. The only reason I am pointing out what I was recommended up till now is because this is what he suggested up till now...oh and he had me slow my daughters taper as she is still tapering.. I was doing it a tad to fast so he slowed it to 10% of the original dose every two weeks.

This is the hardest thing I have ever been through with my children, and believe me I have already been through a spinal surgery with my son that landed him on a ventilator for seven days. Can honestly say this is by far tougher !!! And that was tough !!!

Just don't see why people's anger is not directed more at the drug manufacturers and not at each other

But anyway, Brandy, I thank you so much for your kind words about me and my children. It is so tough to know I am always making the best decisions for them especially when the medical community is not supportive but only offers you these medicines for there disability.

I don't know where we will go from here and I don't know if where we are at will continue to improve or not.

He's actually having a bit more anxiety today so who knows. He was just able to make it back to school last week for the first time in a while and that was a milestone in months of crippling withdrawal symptoms.

I do wish everyone the best and in no way ever is my intention to offend anyone by unintentionally suggesting anything that's otherwise not supported.

I had always just wished that there neurologists would " think outside of the box " so I know from what I have been through myself as with my children I have learned to listen to others but ultimately its up to us what decisions we make for ourselves...its just nice to have someone like you respond in such a manner that's objective .

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Provided without comment (aside from emphasis added) from the benzobuddies board:

 

Begin quote:

 

Re: has anyone used James Harper road back program or is it a scam

« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2009, 03:47:50 pm »

 

True, all supplements are not created equal, but the ones offered up through Road Back and Point of Return have been shown to be no better than those found at a vitamin store or walmart for half or more off what they offer.

The difference? They BRAND it under their name and can charge for it because it's part of their "program". It's a horrible practice and one that they've come under fire for often. They have no justification apart from the fact that they use "pharmaceutical grade" products, but what most people don't understand is that there is no such thing as a "pharmaceutical grade" supplement. Period. It all boils down to how much people are willing to be suckered into in an effort to halt withdrawal symptoms. The sad part - these companies THRIVE on making money on people being gullible and desperate, which is a damn shame if you ask me.

I've spent a LOT of time looking into these people, a LOT. And I even went so far as to buy their products, so I'm not making all of this up.

As for supplements, I've been in exercise physiology and nutrition for years now - these were my majors in college, and I can tell you this - there are a handful of supplements that have been proven to help people on a daily basis and it's simply due to the nature of how they can be obtained naturally.

Magnesium is number one on that list - people simply don't get enough of it, because most sources of it are no longer as rich in content as they used to be. This is due, in part, to issues with where these crops grow. It's also due in part to food preparation - spinach, for example, being a case in point (most people eat it cold, which locks the nutritional complexes, thus making it impossible to get magnesium or any other element from being absorbed). However, you need to mindful of calcium intake, too, with magnesium.

The other supplement would be vitamin D. There is a rise in American in terms of people with vitamin D deficiency. However, people take insane amounts of it thinking it's safe. They say you can take up to 10,000 IU of it daily, but you'd have to be out of your mind to do this. It's like when they said taking high doses of vitamin E was safe - they proved THAT was wrong. Suffice to say, everyone and their mother should see if they are deficient in vitamin D, considering how important it is.

Other supplements should ONLY be taken if you know you will not be getting the supplement in a natural form - especially Omega - 3. Also, Omega -3 needs to be balanced with 6 and 9, to truly be effective. Eating fish is the best way to get this, though flax is good, too, though flax has to have an additional process to break down.

The list of supplements that shouldn't be taken is pretty lengthy, but it includes a number of things, including B vitamins, vitamin complexes, and more. The problem with most vitamins is that they are synthetic and are NOT absorbed in the body correctly, which is why if you plan to take vitamins, you should find food based vitamins. They work where the others do NOT. However, if you eat right, you should never have a problem with vitamins or minerals and adding MORE to your system does nothing, despite what the manufacturers claim.

Also, it's not a good idea to take things like Melatonin daily. Yes, it's natural, and yes, your body produces it naturally, but it's still a synthetic hormone and nobody knows what kind of long term problems using Melatonin will eventually cause. One of my older textbooks talked about small trials of people using Melatonin since the synthetic was discovered, but because the groups were so small, they couldn't prove that the effects were created by the Melatonin. Still, it's not something to toy with, especially when you consider that it's not regulated and there is no way to vouch for what it is you're getting.

GABA, as a last comment, is perhaps the most useless of all supplements, because it actually does nothing - it can't cross the blood brain barrier and thus simply travels through your system.

Because of the importance of GABA as an inhibitory neurotransmitter, and its effect on convulsive states and other motor dysfunctions, a variety of approaches have been taken to increase the brain GABA concentration. For example, the most obvious approach was to administer GABA. When GABA is injected into the brain of a convulsing animal, the convulsions cease (Purpura D P, et al, Neurochem. 1959;3:238-26. However, if GABA is administered systematically, there is no anticonvulsant effect because GABA, under normal circumstances, cannot cross the blood brain barrier (Meldrum B S, et al, Epilepsy; Harris P, Mawdsley C, eds., Churchill Livingston: Edinburg 1974:55."

GABA may have a slight relaxing effect, but apart from that, it's useless."

 

End quote.

 

Of course if you really think a gazillionaire 'biopharmacist' based in California (inferred from search) is really personally advising you on a medical matter (treating withdrawal from psychoactive medications prescribed by a medical doctor) via email, then there is no point in mounting an assault on your credulousness.

 

I myself was very nearly taken in by the same hype from TRB (or whatever they are calling themselves now) and it would have been disastrous. Should I have relied on those outrageously priced supplements I would have never been able to go through the brutal withdrawals which cannot be medicated or supplemented away.

 

My only little friends were my magnesium glycinate tablets and my container of Calm (a life saver for a surge in the inevitable anxiety that happens in a sensitized nervous system.)

 

What people fail to realize is that supplements are only allowed to be sold if they are carefully labeled as not "treating or curing" but the language used to market them can be HIGHLY SUGGESTIVE for those scenarios and still be legal, allowing hucksters like Harper to spend his time sitting in the sun and 'writing emails' out of the goodness of his heart (and wallet).

 

Whether it is a scam or not is not the issue. The issue is that these supplements can be very dangerous to people in withdrawal, something the above poster seems to want to ignore. I did a google search to find out how in the world someone from the general internet arrived here to refute the board administrator's opinion and there it was, the 4rd google result when using 'trb health' as a search term has this thread listed.

 

There will come a time as that company changes its name when our cautionary information won't appear.

 

There is no cure for withdrawal syndrome. But we have ways to manage it till the body can put itself back together after the sledgehammer assaults from antidepressants, benzos and antipsychotics have done their damage.

 

That the above poster needs to make me out to be the bad guy here to maintain her belief in Harper is beside the point, the point is that we don't recommend these types of programs and supplements for a reason. Please do not try to subvert our recommendations and encourage our members to think these things are OK. They are not and there are plenty of examples to be found if one knows where to look.

[Brandy]

.... oh and he had me slow my daughters taper as she is still tapering.. I was doing it a tad to fast so he slowed it to 10% of the original dose every two weeks.

 

....

 

This came back to me kept nagging at me, and it took me a while to find it - I wasn't even sure whose post it was on!

 

But I do want to point out that although this taper schedule was considered very progressive and an improvement over the kinds of taper schedules (if any) that were given long ago, it is now considered to be much too fast for most people by every withdrawal group I know of and has been for years, unless the person has only been on the med very briefly. (Even then there are no hard and fast rules and some of those people may find they need to allow longer intervals between drops. Usually people need to wait 4-6 weeks between drops.

 

The only way to determine the optimal time for an individual to wait between drops is to allow at least that much time - maybe a couple of months or even longer if they have a very sensitive system - at first, while noting symptoms and seeing patterns over time that indicate what is best for them. Some symptoms may or may not appear very quickly from even small drops; other symptoms can occur weeks or even months after a drop, or can be cumulative over time. There is a lot of information on this site about how best to do this.

 

Another factor to bear in mind is that drops can be felt more strongly at the lower doses, due to what I believe has been explained by the scientifically knowledgeable members of this group (which I so am not! ) as exponential curves or something, in threads I'll try to provide links for later in this post.

 

Also, some people have found other ways to ease short-term or long-term symptoms from taper drops, by variations on the recommended taper guidelines. I believe it's BrassMonkey who has posted about the method he developed and which has helped him taper, which is a slight "variation on a theme." I don't recall the details but we could find his posts about it. It does seem that people have different patterns at which their body responds best as to when to drop, just as different people metabolize the meds differently. It takes patience to find what works best for oneself, but is well worth it in terms not only of well--being while tapering, but especially in terms of avoiding or minimizing withdrawal syndrome after a taper is concluded. (The ideal goal is to taper at amounts and rates that match the individual's healing processes, avoiding severe or lengthy protracted withdrawal, such as I had after going off various meds.)

 

Also, the 10% is a guideline that works well for most people, but some people need to do smaller drops along with the longer intervals between drops. Some people have better quality of life with 5% or even 2.5% or lower drops, though 10% seems to work fine for the majority of people.

 

Mods and those who are on this site more often can probably provide other or better links, but here are a few I could locate atm (they may or may not be relevant to your childrens' tapers):

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

(The second link contains information you're already familiar with, but goes into more detail on tapering that may be helpful to you.

 

I apologize if any of this information is irrelevant to your children's complex cases, and to everyone if I've hijacked this thread. nicgab, if any of this type of information is useful to you, please start an "Introduction" thread in that forum here. Intro threads are actually a kind of "home page" within this site, where you track progress (or problems) and ask questions re your (in this case, your children's) tapers and get input from others. Really more of a journal and individual person's thread, not just introduction. This has worked very well so that people can readily refer to or familiarize themselves with the particulars of a person's individual case readily. You might want to save time (which you probably don't have much of, I can imagine!) and effort, by copying and pasting (or using "multiquote" at bottom of posts to "quote" from this thread to another thread) from your posts here, to your Intro thread. (I believe you can also just link to posts here from the post # at the upper right corner of a post. Hope I'm thinking that works on this site.)

[gigi63]

Altostrata. I just want to confirm what you are saying. When shortly after I began my taper I started with the road back program. I started to taper in June 2015. In October of 2015 I began the program. Shortly after I began the program I began having problems with the supplements.

 

All I knew for sure was that 1) I was having withdrawal symptoms and 2) I was taking a multitude of supplements Jim Harper was promoting.

 

Yes, Jim Harper was talking to me personally at first. I began to question him more and more about his supplements and what was in each one and how much??? I began to pick each supplement ingredient apart and research them and possible side effects of them on the Internet. The more I questioned him for doses of each of his slurry of ingredients, he obviously became irritated. By November, he cut me off. Wouldn't communicate with me at all.

 

That program is a HUGE disservice for those of us who are suffering withdrawal. What a HOAX!!!! I stopped them all last November. What a rip off!!!! I too am a registered nurse for 30 years. I tried to do my homework, the more I did the more I couldn't get answers. Just managed to get myself cut off!!!!

[Kamist]

I've been researching about supplements to help battle the withdrawals which led me here...i have been completely off Effexor for 3 wks now...can anyone give me some insight to which supplements may help? The side affects I've been experiencing are the cough and flu like symptoms...other than that, nothing else, so far.

[scallywag]

kamist, the only thing that gets rid of symptoms after discontinuing psych drugs is the "hair of the dog that bit ya," which in your case is effexor.

The supplements that we have found effective and safe for most people -- providing they start with low doses ¼ or ½ of the amount recommended on the container -- are

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

If you have any more questions, please start an introduction topic for yourself in the Introductions and updates forum.

[Kamist]

Thank you

[MicronutrientsOverMeds]

ADMIN NOTE This person is an employee of Hardy Nutritionals who very frequently makes this type of promotional post on social media. This is an example of a type of post that is not permitted on this site.

 

For an example of how Hardy Nutritionals hypes questionable supplement packages for withdrawal, see this.

---

 

I wanted to just say that I found a few people on here who said that micronutrients helped them and I listened, and it turns out, it was good advice.  Hardy Nutritionals, the company I get my micronutrient supplement (Daily Essential Nutrients) from, has completely changed my life. That may sound corny, but it's true.  They have 30 medical journal publications backing Daily Essential Nutrients, their clinical micronutrient supplement, included double blind research for ADHD (which I have, among other things, including bipolar, PMDD and depression).  I was once told by my doctor that I was a "mosaic of mental illness".  Now I am a healthy, employed, happy person with so much too look forward to. I would encourage everyone to look into try.gethardy.com and see what I mean.  So many doctors just throw patients on SSRI's without trying this first, and I'm telling you, I believe this should be the first line treatment for everyone before anti depressants. It helps so many people, including me.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Altostrata
added admin note

[felin]

You guys just saved me a whole lot of money that I really cannot afford to part with in the first place. I was very close to placing an order. Whew! Thank you.

[ccb73]

Alto,

 

I'm doing quite decent tapers as you instruct, yet my QOL is s*** (excuse me).

 

If you don't have any better ideas and more comfortable withdrawl experiences, why do you so vehemently oppose supplementation?

 

I need help, we all need help. Alsi, doing too slow of a taper keeps the drug in your body longer, causing it's own set of problems.

 

Especially after my very uncommonly heard of 23+ years on meds.

 

My meds now are:

 

Viibryd 10mg

Klonopin 1.5mg PM, 1mg AM

Seroquel 125g

Cymbalta 27mg

 

I cut out wellbutrin 150, Cymbalta 80mg to 30mg,Seroquel 200 mg to 125mg, Viibryd 20mg to 10mg.

 

Now I'm back to 10% of the 30mg of Cymbalta and I'm in a hell hole.

 

It's not so simple as you make it alto! We need to weigh many things in withdrawal, including QOL no variance between slow or fast, kids, job, holidays, social structure, physical constitution, years on meds, types of meds tried, previous botched attempts, etc... The list is endless...

[ccb73]

So much pain, so little help!

 

What a pathetic shame...

[Altostrata]

You can take as many supplements as you think best. Our Symptoms and Self-Care forum is filled with topics about supplements.

 

If you wish to pay exorbitant prices for ordinary supplements, you may wish to patronize any of these programs.

 

Please do not mistake their marketing promises of making you well as reality. Those are just words. Their programs are nothing special, their bundling of supplements is unnecessary and often harmful to many people, who can tolerate some but not all of the supplements in the programs.

 

I certainly do not make going off psychiatric drugs seem simple. It often incurs many quality-of-life challenges, with which you will need to cope. It's up to you to assess whether going off drugs is worth the risk to you.

 

That's another problem with the marketing promises these programs make: They claim to make the whole process easy. They are selling a fantasy of blue skies, while they are well aware they're only selling supplements. Personally, I find that extremely objectionable.

[compsports]

ccb73,

 

I could have written exactly what you wrote.   But after wasting a lot of money on supplements, including the Label Me Sane program, I wish to god I had heeded similar type warnings that Alto provides on this site.

 

Good luck to you.

 

CS

[PatriciaVP]

"Label Me Sane"? Just the name is offensive!

[ccb73]

Alto,

 

I agree and did commit to not having it easy in withdrawal. But this hard, OMG!

 

All people withdrawing are asking:

 

IS THERE A POSSIBLE AMILIORATION FOR THE SUFFERING...

 

If I'd be able to feel the horrendous withdrawal symptoms at decision time, I'm not sure I'd pass the test. I'm sure some are singing this same song...

 

Don't get me wrong: at this point there is no turning back but...

[Altostrata]

If there was a quick cure, I would be sure to tell everyone.

 

Please see our Symptoms and Self-care forum  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/for suggestions about how to cope with symptoms.

[dreamgirly]

Hello, Important question please !! I have been taking JNK capsules ( The Road Back) for three years and now cannot buy them on Amazon. Is it possible to have a withdrawal from going off of JNK? My husband is a physician and very concerned. I do have Double X supplements made by Nutrilite which look to have some of the same ingredients and I knows a stand up company.  Thank you in advance for your prompt answer. I really feel crappy not taking JNK but the last thing I want to do is become addicted again to anything. I originally started taking them to help get off xanax.  Are there ANY addictive ingredients in JNK ? I called the company and she said they changed their formula from capsules to a new JNK formula with no gmo's or fillers and they are more effective. When I asked my question to her she had NO answer and said to email the company. (Even though she is THEIR customer service rep).  She was of NO help whatsoever. I am tempted to order the new ones ( because I feel so crappy) ....but then found your reviews on google. Any help would be appreciated. 

[Altostrata]

Please read this topic from the beginning. We do not recommend The Road Back supplements and we do not provide support for The Road Back program.

 

You need to look carefully at each ingredient in JNK. or any other supplement you take, research each ingredient, assess which is of real value to you, and decide if you want to risk side effects from those ingredients.

[GettingThere]

I would like to share my experience with neuroreplete and Dr. Hinz' protocol. When I started the protocol, I really believed that it could help me. I was having a lot of withdrawal effects, having reduced Zoloft from 150 mg. down to 15 (I did it slowly, in about 18 months) and desperately wanted to just get off the drug. Dr. Hinz has done a lot of research, written a lot of articles on the subject, and - in my mind - it made perfect sense. He also claims a 100% success rate. The idea is to balance dopamine and serotonin, by taking amino acids based on urine testing. You take the aminos, get tested, and then readjust the dosage (usually upwards) based on the results.

 

I was on the program 10 months. I spent about $8000 on testing and supplements - money that I can ill afford. I kept going based on faith, and because I was desperate. 

 

Also, I had horrible paradoxical effects. These occur when you don't react to a dosage change as expected, and there is a worsening of symptoms instead.  In my case, I became severely, extremely depressed, and was suicidal on several occasions. When these paradoxical reactions occur, the protocol suggests going even higher on the amino acids. 

 

Anyone trying this program should be warned about these things. The cost, the false promises, the potentially horrible and dangerous side effects finally made me wake up and reconsider what I was doing. 

[Jayjohnny]

I agree wholeheartedly. From personal experience I hold firm to the everything in moderation protocol! This includes supplements.

[Junglechicken]

For me it was bee pollen powder......set off a histhamine reaction BIG TIME, and it didn't help that I have Hayfever really badly.

 

Those poor bees, having collected up all that pollen.

 

It was about £8.00 for a 100g pouch.

 

Be careful with this one, despite all the listed health benefits.

[powerback]

http://www.truehope.com/winning-court-case.html

I found this to b very interesting

 

Moderator note:

In 2006 Health Canada, the federal department of health, filed with the Provincial Court of Alberta to stop the sale of supplement products sold by Synergy Group and Truehope because the distributors (Synergy & Truehope) were making claims that their products were useful in the treatment of depression and bipolar. Because of these claims, Health Canada asserted that the supplements required approval by Health Canada and a Drug Information Number (DIN) for sale.

 

The link provided is on the website of one of the defendants and is predictably one-sided in its selections from the judgement.

 

This site specifically recommends that people protect their financial health by NOT purchasing products such as those at issue in in the court case. See Don't waste your money on these supplements

Edited March 20, 2017 by scallywag
moderator note

[powerback]

I bought a package of The Road Back supplements and felt horrible.  The Body Calm did absolutely nothing to calm me.  In fact I became increasing agitated the more I took of it.  After 1 week of using these supplements, I threw them all out.  I paid over $100 for them too.  A great supplement to help with anxiety and sleep which doesn't interact with psychotropic drugs is Ashwaganda.  I highly recommend it. 

 

got ashwaganda today ,its suppose to help with the adrenals also

[ChessieCat]

 

I bought a package of The Road Back supplements and felt horrible.  The Body Calm did absolutely nothing to calm me.  In fact I became increasing agitated the more I took of it.  After 1 week of using these supplements, I threw them all out.  I paid over $100 for them too.  A great supplement to help with anxiety and sleep which doesn't interact with psychotropic drugs is Ashwaganda.  I highly recommend it. 

 

got ashwaganda today ,its suppose to help with the adrenals also

 

 

From ashwagandha-herb-for-anxiety-stress-and-toxic-overload   see Post #5

[powerback]

 

got ashwaganda today ,its suppose to help with the adrenals also

From ashwagandha-herb-for-anxiety-stress-and-toxic-overload   see Post #5

 

 

Thanks chessie ,I will tred carefully