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#1 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:12 PM

Hi everybody!

 

I've been looking at these boards for a few weeks. Decided today to come out of the shadows. Like all of you, I am suffering from the effects of antidepressants and anti-psychotics - or in my case now, the effects of discontinuing them. The basic med info is in my signature.

 

I am today in the midst - for the past few days actually - of a very bad window. I'm suffering anxiety to the point of despairing of life. Not that I would take my own life. I have a wife and 2 kids, and I fear the disposition of my soul if I did kill myself (I am Christian, but understand that preaching/proselytizing is not allowed here - but it is a relevant fact of my life).

 

My symptoms over the past week have included body chills, aches & pains (mostly in my arms), and as my name implies - lots of shakes/tremors. And also the current horrible anxiety.

 

I had been trying supplements - fish oil and magnesium - but even using high-grade magnesium citrate was giving me the runs and I wasn't feeling calm from it. Also, as I upped my fish oil intake, my symptoms got worse.

 

And therein lies the rub. Besides the loss of health insurance (well, more like losing my regular psychiatrist when I had to switch to the ACA when I lost my job in 2015), I was motivated to get off of the meds because I just did not know who I was anymore. My marriage was falling apart, mainly due to me being a real self-centered angry jerk - and I suspected that the medications were doing that to me, especially when you consider the psych-party-line of "take this for your depression, but then we need to give you a mood stabilizer" - which is to say, they just dole out these pills with no idea of how they will effect you!

 

Anyway, turns out that I'm actually a really nice guy! Caring, gentle, responsive, engaging, helpful... All of the things I was not when I was on the meds.

 

Sadly, however, my wife - who really is a loving woman - is struggling with putting the nice-guy ShakeyJerr of today who is about to lose his temp job because he is unable to be in consistently over the past month with the jerk I used to be. So while she can be very supportive, she is beginning to wear thin with this new discontinuation reality.

So I decided to come here for community and support, to help me be able to have a place to go to when symptoms get really bad so I am not constantly burdening her.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#2 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:19 PM

Oh, and I forgot to mention the symptoms of memory loss (no pun intended), lack of appetite (I have lost a lot of weight at what might be an unhealthy speed), and most food just makes me nauseated now.


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#3 RachelE

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:08 PM

As one Christian to another, I promise I will pray for you Shakey Jerr along with your wife and kids.

 

I'm thankful my own problems are minimal, since my family members don't know about my taper. I will tell them eventually. Hopefully when they see I'm not frothing and running around like a rabid dog they'll be glad I went off.


I have been on so many medications since I was 20 and diagnosed as "mentally ill" that I have lost count.

Right now, however I have been taking:

Lamictal 25 mg: I went on it in March for only 13 days, then cold turkeyed off when I thought I was developing a rash because of it. Pretended to go back on it, but didn't. Not the best idea, but I had no way to reduce the dose. Anyhow I had no adverse withdrawal reactions, probably because I was on it for less than 2 weeks.

Abilify 20 mg:  I have been on this for several years. Actually at least half the time I have spent as a meds "consumer" I have been on this nasty pill. I finished tapering off it at the beginning of 2016. Was reinstated during the 4 days I spent in a psych ward in March. Tapered off it again in 10 weeks, from say March 15-June 30. Needless to say this is not exact, but I remember I was off it before July 4 (patriotic holiday in America!) I am doing fine, although I know I may have to wait till Christmas or later to know I am out of the danger zone for withdrawal psychosis. The main thing I notice about being off is that I no longer crave sweets all the time and am losing weight without trying. Good thing since I used to weigh 350 lbs.!

Effexor 150 mg: This is the real trouble-maker. Since I have no other way of tapering I do the best I can by bead counting. I unscrew the gel capsule and count out the tiny micro-capsules or beads inside. This works fairly well with the generic time release version. Only 120 beads to count of almost identical size. Lately I have been "holding" at 20 bead removal due to some major stress in my life. Moving hundreds of miles from my old home and a bout of strep throat that wouldn't respond to antibiotics.  I guess that means I'm on 120 mg of Effexor right now. On October 16 I am going to recommence my taper since I am safely moved and no longer have strep! 

I admit now that I did something stupid. I had trouble opening the extra strength gel capsules containing the beads so I reinstated at the original dose for a week. I know it's not good to play ping pong with my brain, but I could never open the capsules without spilling those microscopic balls all over so I was never sure what dosage I was taking! Thank the LORD that I finally have the old kind again and can safely count out the amount. I am now back on 135 mg and feel somewhat better.

October 30, 2016. I am down to 120 mg effexor. November 27, 2016. Down to 105 mg effexor. December 25, 2016. 90 mg effexor. January 15, 2017. 75 mg effexor. January 21. 82.5 mg effexor. January 23, 90 mg again. Feb. 14, 81.25 mg. Mar. 15, 72.5 mg. Mar. 27, 65 mg.  Apr. 9, 58.75 mg.


#4 Madeleine

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:09 PM

Welcome to the forum!

March 15/2017: 3.75 zyprexa; January 16/2017: 6.25 mg; down from 10 mg December 2016
200 zoloft. Tapering that next.


#5 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:26 PM

Thank you for the wlcomes and the prayer!

Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#6 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:28 PM

As one Christian to another, I promise I will pray for you Shakey Jerr along with your wife and kids.
 
I'm thankful my own problems are minimal, since my family members don't know about my taper. I will tell them eventually. Hopefully when they see I'm not frothing and running around like a rabid dog they'll be glad I went off.


So, Rachel, you find that the meds turned you manic and/or angry? I wonder if other Effexor users experienced this. I know that I did.

Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#7 AprilShowers

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 09:41 PM

Hi ShakeyJerr, welcome. My sympathies with the shaking and anxiety it's horrid I know. The temptation is to try anything and lots of it to try and help the symptoms go away (I fall into this trap myself) but small amounts and very careful with your nervous system is the best way to go while you're feeling this way. There's lots of good advice here. I'm sure others can advise you on your taper regime. 


2000: Use of venlafaxine for moderate depression for two years. Tapered off with no major problems. 

2010: Venlafaxine 5 years, doses between 75-150-300. Tolerated but only partially stabilised the severe depression & escallating side effects. 

Adverse reactions to citalopram (tried before venlafaxine), sertraline & mirtazapine (tried after venlafaxine became problematic) with suicidal ideation caused. 

2014: Adverse reaction to one prozac pill which I tried to begin taking in order to stabilise the withdrawal and actually made it horrendously worse. My body & brain went on fire two hours after taking the pill and severe WD began.

Spring 2014: CEASED ALL ANTIDEPRESSANTS. Did take occasional lorazepam (two weeks at first followed by the occasional half tablet at night sometimes.

2014: WD: living hell for five months, gradually improved a little by little for almost a year and a half but with frequent heart palpitations, weakness and anxiety and very poor sleep. Struggled to do things both physically & mentally but was improving slowly. 

2015: WD relapse with full symptoms. anxiety/panic triggered beyond initial anxiety resurgence by a couple of small half doses of Lorazepam that seem to have restarted all the WD symptoms I had in the beginning & ruined all the progress I had made. 

2017: Bad reaction to propranolol beta blockers. Nervous system kindled into violent shaking like withdrawal again. Alerting system on overdrive. 

 

Current Supplements: Omega 3 & Vitamin C, magnesium, potassium & pre/probiotics. 

 


#8 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:49 AM

Thanks, April! The past 2 days have been horrible. The anxiety is crushing. I have thought about going to the ER, but for what? To get on a new med? Why do that?

 

It also does not help that my usually very supportive and sympathetic wife is suddenly not so supportive or sympathetic. She is insisting I go to work even though my symptoms are really bad right now. She is afraid I am going to lose my temp job. It's not so much a money thing as a "the husband is suppose to work" thing. Plus, our bad 11 year history while I was on the meds is rearing its ugly head in her mind. She recently took a new job that is very hard and that she hates just so we could have finances, but that has made her a bit bitter towards me.


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#9 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:56 AM

A longer, more in-depth introduction...

 

 
I've been trying to piece together what was going on when I first started the medication. My memory is very shoddy of the exact year, but I think it was either late 1998 or early 1999. I was seeing a therapist - Dr. Miskiv - because hey, I did have issues to deal with!
 
And I am pretty sure I was already saved and going to church, so what I should have done was gone for pastoral care to augment my psychology visits. But I was to prideful and was trying to impress the other people at church with how "saved" I was. So I hid the whole pysch thing.
 
I was in the heat of the divorce from my first wife - boy, did that whole process really lag! Everything would grind to a halt on her end during the school year (she's a college professor). And both of us had terrible lawyers. We ended up banging out the divorce agreement ourselves!
 
And I was dating a girl I'll call crazy Mary; she was an alcoholic (but for the record,she had nothing to do with the divorce; I met her way into the process).
 
So it was a very tumultuous time.
 
I know I resisted my therapist's suggestion to go on meds. I recall that I was having some anxiety attacks - going into the bathroom at where I was doing temp work to hide. But the attacks were nothing like the ones now! They were short, mostly emotional with very little physical symptoms. In retrospect, I was probably not a candidate for medication. But I was stuck in a bad pattern with the relationships thing, and had issues from my past to work out, and there was the anxiety.
 
Still, I resisted until I read the book "Listening to Prozac." In it, a psychiatrist who was supposedly originally against medication touted the wonders of Prozac. I wonder now if he was a paid shill...
 
So I decided to go on Prozac. The anxiety attacks stopped, I was more focused... and eventually I developed some manic to go with my anxiety and the bit of depression I had. So they stuck the bipolar label on me, added lithium - and as they say, the rest is history. Horrible, horrid history.
 
Because the truth is, I was never really clinically depressed. I had some very depressing circumstances to go through. And I was never really clinically suffering from anxiety. I just had some stressful, anxious circumstances.
 
These meds at best are supposed to be short-term, to put a little "grit under the wheels" so you can get traction and drive out of the ditch. But they become a self-feeding monster, causing more problems - problems that the psychiatrists (who you only see for a minute per appointment anyway) just throw more drugs at...

"How are you feeling?"
"I've been kind of blue the past couple of weeks."
"Let's up your dosage."

"How are you feeling after upping the dosage?"
"Now I'm kind of having racing thoughts."
"Let's add a mood stabilizer."

And so it goes... And boom, I'm on the drug not-so-merry-go-round for nearly 2 decades, and find myself having anxiety and physical problems and crying jags that I never experienced before. 

I think I almost prefer the crying jags of my discontinuation syndrome over the anxiety. Though I never want to experience either of them again. But at least with the crying jags, I could go into the bathroom, let the tears flow for a moment, and be done for a while. The anxiety has both a physical and emotional component, and it is more constant and pervasive.

SJ

Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#10 mammaP

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:15 PM

Hi Shakeyjerr, welcome to SA.  Sadly your taper was much too fast and you are struggling with withdrawal. I don't want to scare you but this can last for a very long time. At this stage it is still possible that you could find relief by reistating effexor, just a tiny amount could make a difference. You could try a few neads from a capsule, just 5 beads can often be enough.  It takes around 4 days to get to a steady state in the blood. I will post a link to the topic on reinstatement for you to read, then I must log off but will be back tomorrow to see what you feel about it and post more info for you. 

 

http://survivinganti...rawal-symptoms/


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#11 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 03:37 AM

Hi Shakeyjerr, welcome to SA.  Sadly your taper was much too fast and you are struggling with withdrawal. I don't want to scare you but this can last for a very long time. At this stage it is still possible that you could find relief by reistating effexor, just a tiny amount could make a difference. You could try a few neads from a capsule, just 5 beads can often be enough.  It takes around 4 days to get to a steady state in the blood. I will post a link to the topic on reinstatement for you to read, then I must log off but will be back tomorrow to see what you feel about it and post more info for you. 

 

http://survivinganti...rawal-symptoms/

 

I don't think I could even get a prescription to reinstate at this point. The one psych consult I had (I had to find a new psych - my old one did not take our new insurance), he just wanted to throw a full boat of meds at me. Plus, I have been off for over three months. I thought reinstating after that much time is not possible.

 

I am taking an "as needed" hydorxyzine my primary care gave me. It helps a little bit.

 

I know that withdrawal can be protracted. But there is a big part of me that hopes and prays that I can be an outlier and be one of the quick ones. But then again - don't we all wish that!


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#12 mammaP

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 10:15 AM

Everyone is different, and I sincerely hope that you are one of those who recovers quickly. 

 

I reinstated effexor at 5 beads and think I only used about 20 capsules in the 2 years it took to taper those few beads. There was quite a bit of spillage too!  The sooner a drug is reinstated the more likely it is to help, at 3 months there is still a small chance. It is such a shame that doctors haven't grasped withdrawal yet, they will eventually and it is now becoming more accepted but it is taking far too long! 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#13 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 10:17 AM

Everyone is different, and I sincerely hope that you are one of those who recovers quickly. 

 

I reinstated effexor at 5 beads and think I only used about 20 capsules in the 2 years it took to taper those few beads. There was quite a bit of spillage too!  The sooner a drug is reinstated the more likely it is to help, at 3 months there is still a small chance. It is such a shame that doctors haven't grasped withdrawal yet, they will eventually and it is now becoming more accepted but it is taking far too long! 

 

Thanks, mammaP! Yeah, the psych consult I did was a real eye-opener for how doctors look at withdrawal syndrome. He might as well have been quoting the PDR to me. In fact, I think he was!


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#14 AnxietySucks

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

> "The sooner a drug is reinstated the more likely it is to help, at 3 months there is still a small chance."

 

I hate hearing this.  I'm trying to reinstate after 4 months and I keep seeing this and it crushes my hope :(

 

Hope you're doing well ShakeyJerr


2008: Lexapro, Welbutrin 100mg
2009 to Late November 2016: Zoloft 25mg/50mg/100mg/50mg, Welbutrin 100mg/200mg
Late November 2016: Quit Zoloft and Welbutrin cold turkey
Early December 2016: Initial withdrawal, brain zaps, eventually went away
Early February 2017: New symptom appears: chest tightness, breathlessness (anxiety?)
March 2017: Anxiety increasing, experimented with Klonopin with mixed results
March 15 2017: Klonopin 0.5mg before bed.  Mixed results.
March 24 2017: Started Trintellix 10mg.  Took for 5 days, had adverse reaction + severe persistent anxiety
March 29 2017: Trying to reinstate Zoloft 50mg + Welbutrin 100mg
April 5 2017: Valium 2.5mg morning, 2.5mg afternoon, 5mg bedtime.  Seems to be helping a little
 
Currently: Zoloft 50mg, Welbutrin 100mg, Valium 2.5/2.5/5

#15 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 11:16 AM

Stay strong, AS. Remember to be good to yourself and live in hope.

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#16 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 05:50 AM

Everyone is different, and I sincerely hope that you are one of those who recovers quickly. 

 

I reinstated effexor at 5 beads and think I only used about 20 capsules in the 2 years it took to taper those few beads. There was quite a bit of spillage too!  The sooner a drug is reinstated the more likely it is to help, at 3 months there is still a small chance. It is such a shame that doctors haven't grasped withdrawal yet, they will eventually and it is now becoming more accepted but it is taking far too long! 

 

Anxiety is still with me this morning. Mentioned to my wife about tapering. She does not understand the theory, and I have to say that I have the same questions... such as, it's been nearly 4 months since I have been off of effexor, and I didn't quite do a cold turkey, and would going back on any does just to taper down now do anything for me, and does it risk bringing back the problems we had while I was on the medication?


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#17 ChessieCat

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 06:26 AM

Hi Jerr,

 

When we take an AD, our brain adapts to getting the drug.  Tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks allows the brain to adapt gradually, as we reduce the drug.

 

The idea of reinstating is to give the brain some of the drug which it still needs to help to bring the withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level.  SA's suggestion is to reinstate a very small amount of the drug, just enough to reduce the symptoms but hopefully not enough to bring on the side effects of the drug.  The very small dose is also suggested just in case reinstatement doesn't work and you get a bad reaction to taking the drug, in which case you would be able to stop taking the drug straight away.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms


Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Brain Remodelling


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#18 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 07:31 AM

Hi Jerr,
 
When we take an AD, our brain adapts to getting the drug.  Tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks allows the brain to adapt gradually, as we reduce the drug.
 
The idea of reinstating is to give the brain some of the drug which it still needs to help to bring the withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level.  SA's suggestion is to reinstate a very small amount of the drug, just enough to reduce the symptoms but hopefully not enough to bring on the side effects of the drug.  The very small dose is also suggested just in case reinstatement doesn't work and you get a bad reaction to taking the drug, in which case you would be able to stop taking the drug straight away.
 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves


Spoke with the social worker/care coordinator at my primary care group. She is going to loop my primary care doc in on what is going on. Both of them know there is such a thing as withdrawal syndrome (rare, I know!). Hopefully from there we can make an informed decision about reinstatement and tapering.

My wife is leaning against reinstatement. I don't think she understands the theory, and she is also afraid of 1) it potentially causing an adverse reaction, like suicide (she has an uncle who killed himself shortly after being put on ADs) and/or me becoming the SOB I was before when on meds.

All I know is that this anxiety wave I am in is painful, both emotionally and physically. I had a window last night, about an hour before bed, where I felt almost normal. I even slept a solid 7 hours (as opposed to my restless 4.5 to 5 hours)! Then this morning I was worse off than ever!

Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#19 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:57 AM

I fast tapered off of effexor over the course of a year - did it completely incorrectly with the "drop from 3 capsules daily to 2 to 1 to 1 every other day" method. Felt absolutely fine during that time - in fact, the best I have felt in decades! Now I am 4 months off of the drug and having terrible withdrawal smptoms: anxiety, tremors, neuropathy in my arms, body feels cold all of the time. It's negatively impacting every area of my life and my wife and kids lives.

Would reinstatement at this point help? Should it be with effexor or simething else? Is the aim to find the lowest dose to start with?

The doctors seem clueless. One gave me 10mg Lexapro. Took one tablet and went from feeling like I was dying to just eanting to die. Discontinued that right away! Another doc gave me hydroxyzine, but that only helps sometimes, helps very little, and takes too long to kick in. And sometimes it makes me feel like I am disconnected from mysf, floating with my brain trapped in my body.

One pschiatrist wanted to start me on a cocktail of stuff - he was like a pusher trying to tempt me with the classic "what's your poison?" approah. Ran right out if there.

The only thing that calms me even a little bit is a cup of decaf black tea. I thought about taking a theanine supplement, but I have tried magnesium and fish oil and appear to have formed a sensitivity to taking stuff.

Oh, I do take 20mg of lisinopril (an ace inhibitor) for my blood pressure every day. I had been on losartan (an a2r blocker) for several years, but switched a couple of months ago because before I knew about anti-deprresqnt withdrawal syndrome, I thought the losartan might have been making me have depression/crying spells (the literature supported that theory).

So here I am now - suffering, confused, and watching my poor wife suffer emotionally alongside me.

Any advice, input, encouragement would be appreciated.

SJ

Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#20 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:28 AM

Do these morning cortisol dumps every cease - or at least lessen back to something akin to normal?


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#21 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:07 AM

I am in severe need of a hug and a nap. The anxiety wave I am in has developed a "sub-wave" of sorts, where instead of staying at one level, it keeps fluctuating. So just when I think I am getting relief, it comes roaring back in.


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#22 AprilShowers

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:42 AM

In the past for me, the periods of relief got gradually longer until I began to be able to function a little better. I've had very challenging ongoing issues, especially with anxiety but had some results from various supplements too, some better than others (vitamin c and omega 3 have both proved consistently beneficial for me). Gently does it with anything. Start small, one thing at a time, be consistent, don't hop on and off things too swiftly because I think the nervous system can react to the absence of something as much as it can overreact to the addition of something. Be especially careful with any prescription drugs. I'm learning my lesson on that one!


2000: Use of venlafaxine for moderate depression for two years. Tapered off with no major problems. 

2010: Venlafaxine 5 years, doses between 75-150-300. Tolerated but only partially stabilised the severe depression & escallating side effects. 

Adverse reactions to citalopram (tried before venlafaxine), sertraline & mirtazapine (tried after venlafaxine became problematic) with suicidal ideation caused. 

2014: Adverse reaction to one prozac pill which I tried to begin taking in order to stabilise the withdrawal and actually made it horrendously worse. My body & brain went on fire two hours after taking the pill and severe WD began.

Spring 2014: CEASED ALL ANTIDEPRESSANTS. Did take occasional lorazepam (two weeks at first followed by the occasional half tablet at night sometimes.

2014: WD: living hell for five months, gradually improved a little by little for almost a year and a half but with frequent heart palpitations, weakness and anxiety and very poor sleep. Struggled to do things both physically & mentally but was improving slowly. 

2015: WD relapse with full symptoms. anxiety/panic triggered beyond initial anxiety resurgence by a couple of small half doses of Lorazepam that seem to have restarted all the WD symptoms I had in the beginning & ruined all the progress I had made. 

2017: Bad reaction to propranolol beta blockers. Nervous system kindled into violent shaking like withdrawal again. Alerting system on overdrive. 

 

Current Supplements: Omega 3 & Vitamin C, magnesium, potassium & pre/probiotics. 

 


#23 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:18 AM

Start small, one thing at a time, be consistent, don't hop on and off things too swiftly because I think the nervous system can react to the absence of something as much as it can overreact to the addition of something. Be especially careful with any prescription drugs. I'm learning my lesson on that one!

 

That is great advice! I seem to be getting some positive results using a 125mg magnesium capsule in the morning. Anything higher brings on the runs (TMI!).

 

I am going to try this weekend to add back in my cinnamon/chromium supplement. That is something I had been taking daily for years to help keep my blood sugar in check (I'm pre-diabetic). I think it's important to go back to that. Plus, chromium supposedly helps with anxiety. Here's to hoping and praying that I get a good result!

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#24 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:48 AM

Okay - this is strange. I usually do not have any sort of appetite until dinner time. Usually I just graze during the day to at least keep my strength up.

 

But I was actually hungry for lunch! Treated myself to a grilled chicken quesadilla (on wheat) and just gobbled it down!

 

Lets hope this is the start of something good.

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#25 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:59 AM

> "The sooner a drug is reinstated the more likely it is to help, at 3 months there is still a small chance."

 

I hate hearing this.  I'm trying to reinstate after 4 months and I keep seeing this and it crushes my hope :(

 

Hope you're doing well ShakeyJerr

 

Hey AnxietySucks - how are you doing these days?

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#26 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:54 AM

Woke up to a horrible anxiety freakout! Almost had my wife take me to the ER. But what can they do for me at the ER other than give me meds? And really, that isn't going to make anything better in the long term.

 

I have calmed down some since that initial wave hit. Now I'm trying to just ride the wave out. I prayed, read scriptures, drank some decaf black tea. It seems to have helped some. 

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#27 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 10:42 AM

Still in anxiety freak out mode. Okay, a little less than yesterday in that I get a few short moments where it backs down today. But again, pretty much a step away from the ER/ My wife keeps pointing out how they will just medicate me there and throw me down the rabbit hole again. She's right. She's out now trying to hunt down a theanine supplement. We figure we'll give that a try.

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#28 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:23 AM

Day 4 of high anxiety. I am at work. God please help me get through the day!

 

I tried Theanine yesterday and today. They only had the 200mg. It kind of made me agitated for a short while, and I don;t feel like I got a good bounce, not even like when I just drink decaf black tea, which has at most around 20mg of theanine (but that was starting not to work to calm me down). So I think I have to maybe try tomorrow opening the theanine capsule and spreading it out in my tea over the course of the day.

 

If that doesn't help, then it's goodbye theanine.


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#29 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:29 AM

WTF!?!?!?!

 

My anxiety is waning, and I am slipping immediately into depression!

 

Why can't I catch a break?

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#30 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:50 AM

Started taking daily notes to see if there are patterns...

 

Monday April 24, 2017
 

5am - Theanine 200mg: I think this dose is too high. I get an agitated feeling for a bit. That does subside, but I am not getting the help I had hoped for.

7:30am - Lisinopril 20mg

8am - Still anxious. I have been reading and listening to Bible verses and praise music (soft). Read some nice supportive emails. Practicing my breathing. Getting a little bit of relief, but again, not as much as I had hoped. I have to realign my expectations, I think.

8:40a - Magnesium 166mg - Wanted to hold off on this, but still have not found relief.

11:00a - half a cup of decaf black tea.

11:15a - prayer walk

Noon - Symptoms suddenly morph into depression, but still there is also an undertone of anxiety. WTF!?!?!

 
1:00pm - back to anxiety; hydroxyzine 50mg
 
Hard evening; never really got my full window.
 
Bad, broken night sleep.

Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#31 catnapt

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:08 AM

it's wonderful that you're taking notes, it's so easy to forget from one day to the next (note to self: keep some paper notes!! LOL)

 

you're doing a lot of great work to help yourself, that's a very positive sign for your recovery :)

 

hang in there, you're doing great.


1974-2002 many psych meds, all types; longest used drugs include lithium, seroquel, SSRI's zoloft & celexa; many CT's off drugs

2002-2015 on varying doses of lexapro, as  high as 40 mgs, but usually 20mgs

June 2015: tapered too fast to 2.5mgs, then to 2.5mgs every other day Dec 2015:  found SA forum; holding at 2.5mgs 

Early May 2016: jumped off at 2.5mgs, not smart- crashed in late Sept.

Oct 26 2016  reinstated liquid lexapro 0.05ml/day at night, dose +/- til settling on 0.15BID (0.3/day)= windows and waves

Jan 8, 2017 too quick switch to single dose in the morning, 0.3mgs (bad mistake, led to a crash)

Jan 12 added low dose zyprexa for SI, took infrequently as rescue med, last dose Feb.15

Jan 26 lexapro 0.27mg Feb 25 lexapro updose back to 0.3mg due to unrelenting severe insomnia

March 1 insomnia worse, back down to 0.29 for one day, then 0.27, then 0.25- improving!! March 17 0.24  April 7 0.21

March 7 added low dose lamictal, adjusting dose based on response (currently ~18mgs)

Supplements: Magnesium taurate 250mg, chromium, pro-biotic, biotin, glycine 2grams PM, 1 gram AM 


#32 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:56 AM

Thank you for the encouragement, catnapt!


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#33 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:58 AM

Daily journal from yesterday...

Tuesday April 25, 2017

5:40a - wake up; total anxiety/panic/physical symptoms - Magnesium 166mg

6:10a - Hydroxyzine 50mg

7:45a - eggs

8:15a - begin sipping on decaf black tea with 100mg of theanine mixed in.

8:30a - Lisinopril; moderate anxiety continues; listening to worship music; neuropathy pain and weakness in lower legs

1:30p - 2nd cup of tea with added theanine

2:30p - anxiety here. but significantly scaled back. Praise God!

3:15p - check that... anxiety is creeping back in. I hate this.

4:45p - arrived home after difficult commute (several accidents) to find that the cat is definitely ill. Cleaned up a lot of vomit and some poop. Worried a lot. Going to have to take her to the vet. But getting her wrangled and in her carrier will be a chore because she hates being picked up.

6:45p -  - Magnesium 166mg

Had evening anxiety, instead of the usual small window. Did wane before bed (9p).

 

SJ


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#34 ShakeyJerr

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:03 AM

I am home today, I even have some take-home work I am doing so I am earning money today... I am perfectly safe. And yet I am still having an anxiety attack since waking up. Emotional and physical symptoms. Nothing is helping. I prayed. Fern prayed. I took my magnesium. Drank decaf black tea with added theanine in it. I am sitting in a relaxed position on the couch and doing my work. I even had soft worship music going at one point (I'm using the dishwasher now as white noise background).

No relief. God, please help me!


Dates are tentative (my memory is shot)...

Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003 (I don't remember the dosages). Went off but developed symptoms so put back on after 4 months.

Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) some time in 2010 (I think). Did a self-taper during 2016 after losing insurance. Been off since around the beginning of 2017.

Developed Discontinuation Syndrome beginning with uncontrolled/unexplained crying in 02/17.

Moved on to full-blow symptoms from there. Been really bad since late 03/17.


#35 ChessieCat

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:44 PM

From Catnapt's Intro:

 

 

 

Awesome! Sounds like you might have hit a sweet spot.
sj

 
 
I hope so!!
although I must say, since reinstating a small dose back in late October, I have steadily gotten better and better. I went from over 40 severe symptoms to just a very few that are fairly mild.
 
the insomnia was the thing that's held on the longest and now I am able to sleep 5 to even 7 hrs sometimes at night.
it's great!
I sleep long enough to dream. I think my brain will heal better now that I am dreaming, I always heard that REM sleep is important, although I can't recall what exactly it's important for. I want to say it's got something to do with memory but er, I can't remember HAHAHA
 
I'll have to look it up
 
how you doin SJ?

Another rough anxiety day. I'm hoping to stop at the vitamin store tomorrow and get magnesium glycinate, see if switching to that from the mag citrate helps any. Plus, a friend of my wife's swears by a homeopathic remedy called Ignatia (please see warning in following post). It gets great reviews on Amazon. But the cost per dose can run pretty high, so I don't see it as a daily long term solution, just an emergency fix.

 

 

 

Stop ShakeyJerr, do not buy that supplement with out doing a lot of research.  Please refer to my intro thread for my latest post.  

 

We just had a member use the supplement Nux vomica (see the paragraph quoted below) and had a very nasty reaction to it.  For people with a "normal" nervous system (such as your wife's friend) homeopathic levels of these ingredients may be relatively safe.  But for people like ourselves with highly sensitized systems they can lead to tragic results.  Even though there is a minuscule amount of the ingredient used it is still the main item used in making rat poison and is very dangerous. The ingredient you're looking at is twice as powerful as the one that harmed one of our members.

 

"It belongs to the family Loganaceae, which also produces the remedies Nux vomica, Gelsemium and Spigelia. The fruit of Ignatia amaris is a corticated berry, about ten cms in diameter, which contains numerous seeds in the middle of its yellow pulp. It has a high alkaloid content, more than 60 per cent consisting of strychnine, which is about twice as much as is found in Nux vomica."


Podcasts:    Let's Talk Withdrawal

 

Antidepressants:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft; Cipramil CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks soon after)

Pristiq:  50mg mid 2012, 100mg beg 2014 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)     Current:  Pristiq 25mg (from 21 April 2017)

 

Tapering history & graph

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

 

I've still got a way to go ... but I've already come a long way!!!

 

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.


#36 MollyN

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:07 PM

Speaking of supplements; I couldn't get hold of my usual magnesium powder and tried a different product, and each time I take a glass of it, I am getting intense headaches and feel fluish - bad enough that I will throw it out, even though it cost $50. I'm surprised how adversely effected me, since the other mag powder has a marvellous effect. How frustrating for us all - good luck with your struggles xxx


Hello  :)

  • Prescribed paroxetine 20mg (Paxil) in 2001 for 'prenatal depression' - and again in 2003 - withdrew just fine 2 mths later. 
  • Prescribed  paroxetine 20mg (Paxil) in 2008 for PTSD (domestic violence)
  • Went cold turkey - I didn't know better (disaster!!!!! - prescribed more terrible drugs to control first lot of terrible drugs (but luckily I threw them in the bin )
  • So I stayed on 20mg  out of fear! I don't want to be the mean crazy person I am when I stop it.
  • March 2014 started 'Willy-nilly Cut Sliver off the side' approach to withdrawal - thank goodness for this site - stopped that.
  • Dropped from 15mg to 10mg in Jan 2015 - horrible - too fast = mean & crazy.
  • Eventually stabilised and stayed at 10mg for 8 months.
  • Stupidly dropped again by 50% (don't do this my darlings!) Sept 2015 reduced from 10mg to 5mg = mean & crazy, sad & desperate.
  • Updosed to 6mg (=6ml) 14 Oct '15. hold 1 mth
  • 6ml - 5ml drop 14 Nov 15. hold 1 mth
  • 5ml - 4,8ml 9 Dec '15 (going to take this nice 'n steady on the low doses) (please send me cyber kicks if you see any sudden 1ml drops!)

Presently: One day I simply had enough and stopped taking it, after 8 years. Didn't get my usual horrid side effects, which was extraordinary.  Now about 8 mths (April 2017) off the drug altogether.  Mostly I notice my memory is extremely poor.