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realizer: Tapered too aggressively off Zyprexa / olanzapine

zyprexa olanzapine taper

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#1 realizer

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:10 AM

Hello everyone. This is a little lengthy post although I tried to keep it shorter ...
 
I have a history of depression going back to 2008 after stressful job. In 2012 I started feeling better and was on Viepax and Zyprexa (Olanzapine) at that time. Started running 2 miles a couple times per week and also started spending more time at the beach. Felt mood improvement to the point of feeling euphoric or maybe hypomaniac, which is a good thing for me. Went from 253lbs to 190lbs and it seemed all was good as I felt there was a direction I was going, a progress.
 
Last summer started feeling anxious. I was overexercising because it helped me to maintain focus on my business. Every time I felt relief, sharp mind and could focus and accomplish a lot of tasks. I think I have pushed myself too far and became out of balance. As a consequence I have suffered anxiety and depression. I had suicidal thoughts because I felt guilty and failed to reach a goal that I had. I thought I needed medication that would relieve anxiety and depression that I experienced in the morning.
 
On February 2017 I went to psychiatrist who without reinventing the wheel prescribed me Zyprexa because it was last medication that I took before I felt better. Had I known the side-effects this medication causes I would not go to psychiatrist at all. All I needed was anxiety and stress relief because I thought once these are taken care of, this would relieve depression too. What I got was weight gain of 11lbs despite being active and eating well. It became harder to wake up and exercise as I became less motivated. I became a bit slower and noticed it was harder to focus on daily business tasks. Having heard that Zyprexa is a toxic drug that affects metabolism and causes fatty liver I decided to taper. I would be better without it because my problems were not that big of a deal when you weight in trade-off. I didn't want to gain weight that I worked hard to reduce and get in shape.
 
As I lately started tapering with 1.25mg and had missing days of medication I experienced total depression and I don't know whether it was withdrawal symptoms or something that would happen either way. I had those days with depression before I started taking Zyprexa, so I don't know. To describe, I was waking up late and had no motivation whatsoever to do anything, despite I had a lot to do. It's like all the tasks became blurred and world turned upside down. I think I was finding happiness in food only and after eating, I would go to sleep. A complete empty feeling with no purpose to live for.
 
After reading about tapering I understand that I started tapering and reduced dosage too soon. It is recommended to taper at 10% every 2-3 weeks. I did go from 5mg to 2.5mg and to missing dosage. It was less gradual than it is supposed to. Zyprexa does not have divider marks so I am not sure how to make it exact and less than 1/4 portion. The day before yesterday I missed the dosage intentionally and felt bad yesterday until I went outside in the evening and felt better. I took the 1.25mg dosage 4 hours later in the evening than I used to because I didn't want to experience withdrawal. Today feels good.
 
What wold be your advice to someone who went significantly faster from normal dosage to low dosage and no dosage? Should I get back on 2.5mg and taper off at 10% or 1.25mg and taper at 10%? Within how many weeks should I adjust taper?
 
See my signature for my tapering timeline. Thanks.
 
Thank you!

02/15/17 - 03/24/17 ► Started taking Zyprexa (Olanzapine) 5mg
03/25/17 - 04/02/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (5 days) and 2.5mg (4 days) 
04/03/17 - 04/09/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (3 days), 2.5mg (3 days) and 1 day off
04/10/17 - 04/16/17 ► Taper off between 1.25mg (5 days) and 2 days off
04/17/17 - 04/20/17 (Today) ► Taper off between 1.25 (days) and 1 day off

 

Medication is normally taken at ~5PM. Started tapering off between dosages interchangeably after 03/25/17


#2 mammaP

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:30 PM

Hi Realizer, welcome to SA.   You were taking zyprexa and viepax in 2012, when did you stop them, and did you taper them at all?

 

We don't recommend skipping doses as it causes chaos with the nervous system. I would go back to 2.5 and hold until stable then use a liquid to taper. You can get the liquid from a compounding pharmacy, or you can make your own liquid by crushing the tablets and making a suspension. You will find the details on tapering and making the liquid here,,, 

 

http://survivinganti...exa-olanzapine/


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#3 realizer

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:24 PM

Hi Realizer, welcome to SA.   You were taking zyprexa and viepax in 2012, when did you stop them, and did you taper them at all?

 

Hi there. I stopped them in late 2012 but I do not remember withdrawal symptoms really... I was in a very good mood at that period so maybe that could be the case? It's when I started exercising and lost weight. I didn't go cold turkey. I just tapered same way like I did recently but this time I think I have side-effects. The reason I have them I think is because I was a bit anxious and depressed before I went on Zyprexa again in February, 2017. I don't have that great mood like I did back in late 2012 so could be the case why I experience side-effects...

 

You mention liquid and suspension to taper. Just crushing it with teaspoon, pouring a bit of water in it and swallowing won't be good?


02/15/17 - 03/24/17 ► Started taking Zyprexa (Olanzapine) 5mg
03/25/17 - 04/02/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (5 days) and 2.5mg (4 days) 
04/03/17 - 04/09/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (3 days), 2.5mg (3 days) and 1 day off
04/10/17 - 04/16/17 ► Taper off between 1.25mg (5 days) and 2 days off
04/17/17 - 04/20/17 (Today) ► Taper off between 1.25 (days) and 1 day off

 

Medication is normally taken at ~5PM. Started tapering off between dosages interchangeably after 03/25/17


#4 mammaP

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:15 PM

It would need to be accurate, with the same amount of water each time and a syringe to measure the dose to be sure you are getting the right amount. I am sorry that I didn't provide more information, it was very late here and way past my bedtime! 

 

You would need to crush the tablet and mix it with water, if they are 5mg tablets you could crush it, put it into a medicine cup, then add water to 5ml. Take 2.5ml and discard the rest.  

 

When you are stable you can then start to taper slowly. 

 

Here is the topic for how to make a liquid from tablets or capsules. 

 

http://survivinganti...ts-or-capsules/

 

About reinstating to stabilise. 

 

http://survivinganti...rawal-symptoms/

 

Why taper 10% 

 

http://survivinganti...0-of-my-dosage/


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#5 realizer

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:59 AM

You would need to crush the tablet and mix it with water, if they are 5mg tablets you could crush it, put it into a medicine cup, then add water to 5ml. Take 2.5ml and discard the rest.

 

Hello. With 2.5ml that I will have left, do I throw it away or keep for my next dosage? Of to keep, does it matter where to?

 

In reinstatement link you gave me there are 2 things mentioned: withdrawal symptoms and adverse reaction. What is the difference?

 

I have made some dosage estimations based on 10% reduction for current dose and original dose:

 

Based on current (last) dose:

 

2.5mg - 10% = 2.25mg

2.25mg - 10% = 2.025mg

2.025mg - 10% = 1.823mg

1.823mg - 10% = 1.64mg

1.64mg - 10% = 1.476mg

1.476mg - 10% = 1.328mg

1.328mg - 10% = 1.195mg

1.195mg - 10% = 1.075mg

 

And so on...

 

 

Based on original dose:

 

2.5mg - 10% = 2.25mg

2.5mg - 10% = 2mg

2.5mg - 10% = 1.75mg

2.5mg - 10% = 1.5mg

2.5mg - 10% = 1.25mg

2.5mg - 10% = 1mg

2.5mg - 10% = 0.75mg

2.5mg - 10% = 0.5mg

2.5mg - 10% = 0.25mg

 

The current dose plan is a long-term one. I wouldn't want to wait entire year...

 

Maybe since I have been taking medication for 2 months and only quit cold-turkey for a couple of times I should choose reduction based on original dosage? Maybe I should taper by mixing original and current dosage reduction methods together? Like taper at 10% of original dose half way and then taper at lower dosages based on 10% off current (last) dosage?


02/15/17 - 03/24/17 ► Started taking Zyprexa (Olanzapine) 5mg
03/25/17 - 04/02/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (5 days) and 2.5mg (4 days) 
04/03/17 - 04/09/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (3 days), 2.5mg (3 days) and 1 day off
04/10/17 - 04/16/17 ► Taper off between 1.25mg (5 days) and 2 days off
04/17/17 - 04/20/17 (Today) ► Taper off between 1.25 (days) and 1 day off

 

Medication is normally taken at ~5PM. Started tapering off between dosages interchangeably after 03/25/17


#6 Petunia

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:25 PM

Hi Realizer,

I will try and answer your questions.

 

MammaP has suggested that you discard the unused portion of the solution. But it may be kept refrigerated for up to 24 hours, so its up to you what would be more convenient.

 

Withdrawal symptoms occur when a drug has been stopped or the dose reduced. Adverse reaction occur shortly after a drug has been started or the dose increased. The actual symptoms can be similar or different, depending on the drug involved.

 

The taper plan we recommend is based on reductions of the current dose. This reduces the risk of withdrawal symptom arising and is the best option for a comfortable process of coming off the drug completely.

 

Some people can taper faster, and others need to go slower, so its best to use the calendar plan as a guide, but listen to your body and symptoms for cues about how your taper is going. If symptoms are getting worse and taking longer to subside, then you need to slow down. If you are getting no symptoms after making cuts and feel fine, then you may be able to go faster.

 

I suggest making the first 10% cut and waiting to see how it effects you.

 

Its a good idea to rate your symptoms daily to help you keep track of how you are doing. Withdrawal symptoms can distort our memory and make it difficult to accurately recall how we felt days and weeks ago. Here are some tips on how do do this:  

 

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress

 

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

 

My Introduction Thread

 

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

 

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety)

Xanax PRN

Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes animal25.gif

 

Supplements which seem to help:  High doses of Vitamin C, Magnesium, Garlic and Ginger.  Taurine, Vit D3, L-Theanine and Inositol. I'm one of the rare people who react badly to fish oil.

 

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

 

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 


#7 mammaP

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:55 AM

Thank you Petunia, there is nothing more I can add, except that you need to cover the left over liquid to prevent evaporation if you are going to use it nest day.  :)


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#8 realizer

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:15 AM

Thanks guys. This week I am at 2.5mg and next week I will start with 10% reduction for a period of 3 weeks. English is not my main language and liquid with suspension is something I never heard of earlier and don't really understand. We make suspension from liquid obtained from compounding pharmacy? Is water not good enough as a liquid? Also, will I need special type of syringe to take dosages less than 1mg/ml?


02/15/17 - 03/24/17 ► Started taking Zyprexa (Olanzapine) 5mg
03/25/17 - 04/02/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (5 days) and 2.5mg (4 days) 
04/03/17 - 04/09/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (3 days), 2.5mg (3 days) and 1 day off
04/10/17 - 04/16/17 ► Taper off between 1.25mg (5 days) and 2 days off
04/17/17 - 04/20/17 (Today) ► Taper off between 1.25 (days) and 1 day off

 

Medication is normally taken at ~5PM. Started tapering off between dosages interchangeably after 03/25/17


#9 mammaP

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:25 AM

You can make a liquid with water.  You can make enough for a few days and keep it in a bottle in the fridge. You will need some 1ml syringes and some larger ones for measuring the water accurately. I have 10ml, 5ml, 1ml and 0.5ml in my cupboard so I have what is needed. I got them all from Amazon. 

 

It would need to be accurate, with the same amount of water each time and a syringe to measure the dose to be sure you are getting the right amount. I am sorry that I didn't provide more information, it was very late here and way past my bedtime! 

 

You would need to crush the tablet and mix it with water, if they are 5mg tablets you could crush it, put it into a medicine cup, then add water to 5ml. Take 2.5ml and discard the rest.  

 

When you are stable you can then start to taper slowly. 

 

Here is the topic for how to make a liquid from tablets or capsules. 

 

http://survivinganti...ts-or-capsules/

 

About reinstating to stabilise. 

 

http://survivinganti...rawal-symptoms/

 

Why taper 10% 

 

http://survivinganti...0-of-my-dosage/


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#10 realizer

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:45 AM

Okay, got it. By the way, I am traveling and will be spending vacation in another country for 3 months. I told psychiatrist that I want to quid Zyprexa and he advised against it. I don't want to lose 3 months which is the time I could have made progress in tapering off so I will taper regardless. Would you have advice for me before I go to another country. Are there other things I might want to take with me that would aid in my taper? The only thing I can think of now is asking psychiatrist to prescribe me sufficient supply of tablets while I will be on vacation.


02/15/17 - 03/24/17 ► Started taking Zyprexa (Olanzapine) 5mg
03/25/17 - 04/02/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (5 days) and 2.5mg (4 days) 
04/03/17 - 04/09/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (3 days), 2.5mg (3 days) and 1 day off
04/10/17 - 04/16/17 ► Taper off between 1.25mg (5 days) and 2 days off
04/17/17 - 04/20/17 (Today) ► Taper off between 1.25 (days) and 1 day off

 

Medication is normally taken at ~5PM. Started tapering off between dosages interchangeably after 03/25/17


#11 mammaP

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:25 PM

Make sure you are prepared with enough tablets, and all the equipment you will need. If you are flying take the tablets with you in case your luggage gets mislaid, but put your tapering lit in your luggage to avoid any explaining at security with syringes etc. It might be ok but I always do this myself. I can do without the stress of having to explain things. Remember that liquids are restricted in hand luggage. Take a note book or diary so you can log any symptoms and not worry about remembering when they occurred.  Take your prescription if you get them in your country in case you need an emergency supply. We get a slip that lists prescribed drugs that we can take to a pharmacy if we lose or forget drugs. 

 

Having said all that, maybe it would be better to hold until you get back so you can stabilise.  You need to be stable before starting to taper again. 

 

Have fun  B)


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day


#12 realizer

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 01:51 AM

Thanks.

 

After my reinstatement period it is mentioned that I should give time to stabilization which can take months. However the amount of time it takes to alleviate withdrawals and stabilize is mentioned to vary per individual, ranging from immediate to a few weeks and to a few months.

 

I hoped to start taper 2.5mg at 10% reduction after my week of reinstatement. If I will be feeling good for another week, should I still adhere to month of stabilization since it's mentioned that waves of symptoms can be experienced? And does that mean I will keep taking same dosage that I started reinstatement with? 


02/15/17 - 03/24/17 ► Started taking Zyprexa (Olanzapine) 5mg
03/25/17 - 04/02/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (5 days) and 2.5mg (4 days) 
04/03/17 - 04/09/17 ► Taper off between 5mg (3 days), 2.5mg (3 days) and 1 day off
04/10/17 - 04/16/17 ► Taper off between 1.25mg (5 days) and 2 days off
04/17/17 - 04/20/17 (Today) ► Taper off between 1.25 (days) and 1 day off

 

Medication is normally taken at ~5PM. Started tapering off between dosages interchangeably after 03/25/17


#13 mammaP

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 08:36 AM

Yes that's right, people can feel better within days, but then have waves 2 weeks later so it is best to hold until you have been stable for at least a month without any waves.


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

See how to create a signature here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Many drugs for many years, prescribed diazepam first 1973, took occasionally. 3 or 4 tricyclics  for short periods.

1993 had a breakdown leading to 10 years of drug experiments with all classes of psych drugs.

2002  effexor. 

Tapered by counting beads from March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

 

Also tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg -hold- Feb2016 46mg  March 8 2016 45 April 44mg  May 11  43mg June 14 42mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, pro biotic.

 

My story http://survivinganti...king-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

Following every sunset is a brand new day






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