billy: Advice for surviving Pristiq and Lamictal withdrawal

[Shanti]

Hi Billy. I don't know if I mentioned this, but Homeopathy cured all my anxiety, fear and depression. It hasn't worked all that great for the physical, but at least my mental is 100% better. If you can, find a Homeopath to help you. If not, Stramonium was very helpful to me. I used to wake up with anxiety attack too. It was horrible. I wondered if I died in a house fire in a past life! I don't think that's likely though, but that's what it felt like.

[billy]

Thannks Shanti!! Alto-Also started drinking caffiene three days ago to wake up and function a bit in the morning, and wondered if that might be a culprit? My withdrawals symptoms seem intensified since then and headed in the wrong direction.HELP!

[billy]

I know i sound bi-polar, one minute feel good & optomistic, then i write in with symptoms again complaining. But that is literally how my days are. If I write in when I feel ok, my perception is good and I don't mention the bad moments and vice versa. It really feels as though,when I am feeling crappy, that my brain tells me that is how I will always feel forever,but I know thats not true. Everything moves so slow I keep waiting for something possitive to sustain myself, but nothing solid. Days are up and down, but looking back I guess I am getting better, I think.My body is so physically dammaged and all the past injuries and more come to the surface to try and drive me crazy. Fitness has always be an important part of my life and a back injury on the job some years ago is plaiging me and I can't strengthen the area around the injury because of lack of energy and motivation,so it keeps getting worse.My left hip,knee and foot are hurting so bad I can't walk well, and it hurts bad. God this is hell and I can't understand why or what is causing this. I mean what exactly is my brain doing to regenerate itself? What has to happen to feel better again? Fully recovering from this terrible experience that I wish would just stop! Going to bed at night wishing tomorrow would be different. Patience is a virture,but man I am moving at such a snails pace in the desired direction it seems. In a few hours I might feel optimistic again with minimal symptome that I might feel as though this will pass but right now it sucks..

[Altostrata]

Billy, drinking caffeine could aggravate symptoms. It would be a good idea to stop doing that.

 

Although you might feel very tired and groggy some of the time, underlying your symptoms is hyper-alerting, which causes anxiety, those awful feelings in the morning, and, for some people, a really terrible sleeplessness. Don't take anything, like caffeine, that is stimulating.

 

It can take a long time for withdrawal symptoms to go away. These drugs are very powerful and cause big changes in the brain and nervous system. They can only gradually heal themselves. I know it's frustrating, stay calm and you will assist the healing process.

 

You're actually doing pretty well.

 

If I were you, if I wanted to try increasing the Lamictal, I might try adding a piece of the 6.25mg quarter-tablet for a few days. If that's an improvement, I'd go up to 12.5mg.

[billy]

Thanks Alto...

[billy]

Alto- I'm still a little confused. I am 5 weeks off Effexor,and back up to 6mg after 13 days of cold turkey after fast weaning of Lamictal.I can't work,I don't do anything, i feel terrible most of the time and don't really know if it's the Lamictal or the Effexor.I am contimplating going to my Pshyc doctor and being at his mercy as to do what he wants.I've read about the Prozac switch thing and wondered if I can feel good through this withdrawal, that sounds good. I really am starting to not believe I can do it anymore feeling this way.Days drag on and on, slowly.I want to feel normal again,happy not sick.Help be undertsnd if this is going to get better,please. Is there any professonal help to get off this crap?? Not Psych doctors but doctors that can hold my hand through this and give me something that can help me feel better throught his, that don't want to dope me up for the rest of my life??"

[Altostrata]

Billy, we are all in the same situation.

 

Medical help for antidepressant withdrawal is very rare. If I knew of a doctor who could help you, I would tell you. Doctors have been misinformed about antidepressant withdrawal, they think it's easy, and they don't know what to do when people run into difficulties.

 

This is a problem all over the world. It's why so many people are here and on other support sites.

 

It is too late for you to do the Prozac switch because you are off Pristiq. Would taking a big of Pristiq or Prozac help you? Maybe, maybe not. No one can say.

 

I am sorry to tell you this again, but recovery is very slow and can take months. You have been experiencing withdrawal for 5 weeks. You probably have a long way to go. What we all need to learn is not to expect an instant recovery, and nurture ourselves as best we can while our nervous systems are repairing themselves.

 

Please reconsider your expectations. No one is going to be able to give you a pill to make you as good as new. If you want hand-holding, perhaps a psychotherapist might help.

 

You did better on a little Lamictal. That is a good sign. Have you gone completely back to the worst symptoms?

 

Have you tried a little more Lamictal?

[alexjuice]

Hi Billy,

 

I'm sorry to hear about everything you are going through. I stopped Effexor, actually first I tried to switch over to Pristiq then returned to Effexor then tried to quit that. I tapered way too fast. And I had a tough time with insomnia, sensitivity to stimulants (caffeine, b-vitamins, some foods, bright light, noise, being around people etc.), insufferable anxiety, changes in cravings for certain foods and alcohol. When you put this all together I was a huge mess. I also tried to go on with life as if all was okay which made things worse. I injured myself weightlifting that resulted in a bacterial infection and, ultimately, chronic (but inconsistent) prostatitis. My sex function was poor on all those drugs and it got worse when I got off too fast. So it's been a tough road.

 

Most people believe that doctors are trustworthy in dispensing medical advice. I generally believe this. But it's just not true in the case of withdrawal syndrome. Sadly, their bad advice hurts a lot of people. There are a lot of structural (and human) reasons for their ineptitude and we talk about this lousy state of affairs fairly regularly here.

 

The bad news is that some folks have a tough and lengthy withdrawal experience; some of us have been devastated. You may be one of these people. If you accept this possibility you can do (and avoid) things likely to affect your condition.

 

The good news is that you are almost certainly going to get a lot better, even if this takes longer than you'd want.

 

As Alto has indicated, there is a lot of diversity in recovery, meaning recovery time varies. This uncertainty is hard to get a grip on, especially since medical establishment will not be of much help at large. Some doctors may even say hurtful things, but they do this cause they know no better.

 

I wrote an article about things to avoid in withdrawal from antidepressants, or at least things I wish I had avoided. You may want to look at it to see where I made my mistakes because the list is fairly broad in apllicability.

 

This site contains a lot of info, probably pretty overwhelming at first. You can gain some perspective by reading about. Alto is a very well-informed guide. (You can ask your doctor to email her if your doc has any questions. Billy, just kidding, don't do that... It'd probably not go over well...)

 

Welcome to the forum, Billy. I wish you didn't need to be here. As someone who has improved (not healed) over time, let me reassure you: It is very very likely to get better. But it may take some time.

 

Alex

[billy]

Thank you Alex, I need encouragement.. Alto- I took another 6mg pice to ramp my Lamictal intake to 12.5mg.Nothing yet as well as feelling better,still very sick this morning.I will keep you posted..Thank you.

[spectio]

Hi, billy I'm so glad you're with us in this forum. As bad as things are right now, you will not be alone in going through this and that in itself is a priceless commodity. I finished wd from remeron almost three months ago after doing a pretty slow withdrawal over two full years and I am still getting these horrible symptoms day after day. What i do now, compared to a couple of months ago though is not to obsess about the symptoms and try to let them slide through me. I have the same horrible anxiety and dread first thing I the morning and know how intense it is. I stay in bed long enough In the morning to see that is not the answer so I get up and do simple things around the house, like dishes or read the paper or visit with my animals. Some times the distractions are enough to letl the really bad symptoms quiet down a bit. Alto and the rest of the staff would like to impress on you that you are in good company and we really do feel your pain . It is not pretty. The deep breathing exercises are really valuable to bring the anxiety level down and they are so easy.there are no side effects to those . Are you able to focus enough to read something totally unrelated to depression and ad's? That might be a good diversion too, at least for a few moments here and there. Treat yourself well and lovingly. These drugs and their reactions on our brains are all lies. You are feeling the effects of the drugs. You are in there,billy, but it will take time to wash away the toxic effects and get you back to where you need to be. Hang on and don't let go!

[Altostrata]

Great posts, alex and spectio. Thank you!

[billy]

I really am glad for all that come to my rescue and give their testimony on their experience with this poison,thank you so much.I bet if we all knew what we were getting ourselves into we wouldn't of taken that first pill,or listened to those Pshychiatrists in the first damn place!! It's later on in my day (early evening) and my brain is awake ,thoughts flowing, and optimism is at an all time high. WHY oh WHY does it take all day to get through those withdrawal symptoms that the Doctors say isn't real???!!BASTARDS!! They are real allright and I will never deal with this crap again when I am finally free form this bondage.Why do I feel fine right now??WHY,WHY???? I feel great ,normal,awesome,then I wake up and start the groundhog day all over again.Symptoms the same and never getting much better that I can tell!! Shouldn't there be some progress?? Spectio-Thanks for the advice. How long can you put up with the symptoms? I have to work,function and want to live my life.Is it worth it?? Someone please tell me it's worth it from a perpective of success and no symtoms anymore.HELP! I don't want to go to sleep tonight,just to wake up tomorrow.

[spectio]

Hey,billy, you and I are in the baby step portion of this Nightmare. My experience with this is that we were on this poison for many years and it will take time to wipe the cobwebs away from our neurons so they can function again. I know, it feels liKe there is concrete on those neurons, doesn't it; at least for the first part of the day. When you feel like a little research, bring up Alto's paper on "One theory of antidepressant withdrawal". It explains a lot about why the first part of the day is so horrendous. It has a lot to do with cortisol production and the effects of the ad's on the adrenal gland. I know how hard it is to accept that there's not much you can do to help yourself right now but there really isn't. Your body has been commandeered by the effects of the drugs. I think it's a lot liKe throwing dirt into your gas tank or a shard of metal into your engine. It affects the workings of the entire unit(for us ,the control center of all of our hormonal systems, which really is the control of every cell In our bodies). Anyway, my point is that when you feel your worse, there's nothing to be done. This is not your fault. Don't torture yourself. Do what you can when you can and treat yourself well when you can't. Like you said, the later part of the day is pretty good so try to get things done then. You sound like you've been a hard working, productive person your whole life. Now it's time for you to show yourself as much compassion as you can and wait for better days to come. We'll be here if you need a friend.

[billy]

Is everyone that is going through withdrawal symptoms not working?? It seems as though it is impossible to work if it takes so long to get off this crap? I need to go back to work and time isn't my friend.

[Altostrata]

Some people are working, probably most. People do what they can do. Don't blame yourself, Billy.

 

I tend to feel better in the late afternoon and evening. As spectio suggested, it may be because cortisol is higher in the early part of the day and declines towards evening. Also, I believe our systems naturally tend to slow down towards nightfall, getting ready for sleep.

[billy]

I'm just so frustrated and tired of feeling crappy. My wife is ready to leave me and take the kids with her because she can't deal with this anymore.I really mean it when I say time is not my friend. I have to feel better to prove to her that I can funtion and contribute to this family. My kids don't understand why I am so tired and sick all the time, and I am tempted to just go back on an anti-depressant so I can get my marriage back togeether. Is the lamictal capeable to sustain me long enough to get through the effexor withdrawal.Is that the plan? I need proof or orchistrated game plan of some kind if anyone can help me.

[billy]

Anyone have a link to this paper? -"One theory of antidepressant withdrawal"- I can't find it in the search window..thanks

[spectio]

Hi, billy, did you get my personal message about Alto's paper? Just enter "one theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome" into googles search engine and it I'll bring the paper up. Take care.

[Altostrata]

That article is one of the links here What is antidepressant withdrawal?

 

Billy, going back on an antidepressant may or may not return you to "normal." Once our nervous systems are sensitized by withdrawal, many of us find other psych drugs only make us worse.

 

As I noted up above, it is unknown how adding a little Effexor or Prozac would affect you.

 

I understand how your family situation is causing you great distress. (We have a forum to talk about this) Family.

 

Are you feeling any better since increasing Lamictal? Yes, it may help you get through withdrawal, but it won't immediately make you 100%, your nervous system still has to heal.

 

It's too bad we can't count on doctors to help us make these difficult decisions.

[billy]

I have read the article and am thankfull for the insight on withdrawal. I can't deal anymore with the syptoms and will see my Psych doctor tomorrow for help. I don't have a strong support system where I live at home and this sight is great and am thankful,but I find myself more confused on what is best for me to do next. I can't live in my bedroom for the next few months or years to find out if I can be free of anxiety and illness this withdrawal is giving me. It doesn't ever stop and never even gets a slight bit better.I have nothing to hang my hat on for hope to getting some relief, or feeling even remotely better even for a moment... That said is it better to go back on another anti-depressant or try a benzo type anti-anxiety at a small dose to get through the withdrawal syndrome??

[Altostrata]

If you want to be off antidepressants, do not go on another drug.

 

If I were you, I'd try a small amount of Prozac. If it helps, stay there for a couple of months, then taper at a much slower rate, perhaps a milligram or less per month.

 

After you do that, very slowly taper the Lamictal.

 

Your symptoms are because of too-fast tapering, not a medical need for the medication.

 

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees that anything will put you back to 100%.

[billy]

Alto-Thats what I will do then. I need directives because I can't make a decission on my own. I worry I will do the wrong thing and go through this hell at a later date, but for now the emergency is still here for some comfort. I will talk to my doctor about the Prozac and get that on bpard..Thanks you tons..

[Altostrata]

I'm not a doctor, and I can't tell you what to do, Billy. I can only say what I'd do in your situation. But I'm not you, and there are no guarantees dealing with this withdrawal situation. Your nervous system may not like anything you try to do for it with drugs.

 

I would try 5mg Prozac to begin with, for a week, and stop it immediately if there's a bad reaction. Do not ramp up if you have a bad reaction.

[billy]

I just got back from my Dr. and he seems to be understanding. I expressed the importance for him to recognise withdrawal syndrome and he did and to please help me get off this junk. I am not depressed or suicidal,just sick!!. He put me back on 37mg of Effexor XR weaning me at 10% a week,kept me at 12.5mg of Lamictal and will wean me at 2.5mg reduction a week.He also gave me clonopin .5 mg as needed when I am freaking out. I know to be very careful with the clonopin for I was weaned off it 5 years ago and it was hell also.So I tell you this as I am unable to find another way of getting clean and clear.

[Altostrata]

billy, I suspect you will find that weaning schedule is too fast. It takes about a month for the nervous system to adjust to a reduction.

 

If I were you, I would not reduce Effexor and Lamictal at the same time, and avoid taking Klonopin. You've already experienced the dependency problem.

 

See if the reinstatement of Effexor helps reduce your withdrawal symptoms first, and stabilize before attempting any weaning.

[Maureen]

Billy,

 

I am wondering how you are doing? Its been a few months since you posted. Did you get off the Lamactil? I am trying to get off it myself.

[billy]

Christ. Everyone that truly wants to be free from man made happiness in pill form should give him a try.What have you got to lose? Just your sanity.I have been off Effexor for two months and feel so much better,after weaning off for two months.Withdrwals hit me two weeks after my last dose of 5mg. and I'm almost withdrawal free now. I have Jesus Christ in my life to build my confidence. After putting faith in people(doctors,therapists, and advice givers) for the past eight years of my life, I finally gave it up to the only source of real happiness- Jesus

[billy]

I can feel again, i can think for myself again,i don't act so silly or need to obsess about anything anymore. I am free to be myself again!! I survived anti-depressants and you can too!!

[Altostrata]

That's very good news, Billy. In a month or so, please start a topic with a summary of your recovery in our new forum Recovery stories. It will give others encouragment.

[billy]

Will DO Altostrata!! Thanks for your encouragement in my process!!

[billy]

I'm back! but my news isn't as positive as I'd wished it could be. Over 2 months off the crap (Effexor xr)and as mentioned Jesus Christ has given me much hope and purpose.BUT I still have reactions(depression,anxiety,naseua) from stressfull situations that seem to last for a little while say like a week,then it goes.I must mention my wife has filed for divorce, I am disabled from an accident at work and haven't worked in 10 years,so I'm looking for a new direction,career AND place to live,so stress I know is on me like a thousand pound weight. Am I'm sure that my circumstances constitue some anxiety and such ,but it seems to be one great week,then one bad one,with each day in the beginning of the bad week slowily getting worse till I buckle.I even reached out to my old physchiatrist this morning and thankfully he got angry about getting calls on the weekend and wouldn't perscribe the Prozac I asked for,sighting he can"t unless he sees me in person and I sholdn't call unless it's and emergency,it was and emergency for me but not for him I guess.Geez this guy makes $400.00 and hour to be a legal drug pusher and he's pissed at "Having no life when people call him on weekends when it's NOT an emergency"!! LOL..God really interveined on that thankfully because I didn't think I could go on another minute today,but don't want to commit to another few years of hell and withdrawals off another drug. So I guess i'm checking in to see if any other advice is out there to deal with these occasions at all short of starting Effexor again and weaning off slower. I really haven't felt better for the most part for 10 years and my mind is wonderfull to have back,I just wished my subconscience wouldn't allow me to feel like crap and be able to use the tools I have gained over the past few moths effectivly to avoid withdrawal symtoms still...Thanks

[billy]

Doxepin 50mg and Prozac 20mg for a few weeks sound ok? Had to switch Psych doctors and the "Prozac bridge" is hopefuly going to carry me through the discontinuation syndrome.I also started 5 HTP 100mg, and L theanine 200mg 3x aday. Anyone still out there that would care to comment on my decission to start up this regimine?? Please help if I'm going in the wrong direction...Can't seem to sleep without nightmares and had to give in to other doctors advice and direction.. PLEASE COMMENT

[Altostrata]

I would try only the Prozac. Avoid doxepin and psychiatric polypharmacy.

 

I would not add 5-HTP, it may aggravate anxiety.

 

Go carefully with theanine, it may have a paradoxical effect.

 

Try only one thing at a time, then you know what you need to fine-tune. Do not go for aggressive treatment, don't throw a bunch of things at your nervous system at once. Treat it very, very gently.

[billy]

Will do Alto. I'll keep ya posted.Thanks for answering..

[Altostrata]

At this point, 10mg Prozac may be adequate, if it's going to work.

[billy]

'IF' meaning at this point its too late for the Prozac bridge to possibly work? How will I know if it's NOT working? Is there 10mg Prozac?