billy: Advice for surviving Pristiq and Lamictal withdrawal

[Altostrata]

Sometimes reinstatement on an antidepressant, including Prozac, does not alleviate withdrawal symptoms. This is why we advocate slow tapering. Medicine doesn't know how to "fix" withdrawal syndrome.

 

Yes, Prozac comes in 10mg capsules. You can also take half a 20mg capsule. See information about Prozac at http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine

[billy]

So given the information I gave what would you do? I tapered off Effexor,felt great for 2 months and waves of withdrawal started comming in till the last one took me out.The vivd dreams give me no sleep I wake up in a pannic and can't fuction all day with waves coming and going all day,Fearfull of going to sleep the next night to start the process all over again,and then the next week feeling fine and better than I have in 10 years thinking the nightmare is over.Menatlly sharp,calm,peacefull patient etc..It seems as though I'm one of the 2% of the poulation that sufferes from dicontinuation syndrome and will face it wheather I taper for months or years? Is there anything I can do ONCE in the middle of discontinuation syndrome?? It would seem silly to me(Though I am certainly no expert and I kn ow you know this suff bettert han me) to re-introduce Effexor Xr to try and taper again,no? i mean it's way gone right? Is it a seritonin thing where I need some 5HTP to buid it back up? Anything Alto please?/??

[billy]

I know I seem stupid,I'm just so frustraded.I'm lousing my family and marriiage from ssri's and just want to be normal again.I will be homeless in a month and need to function. No health insurance,no income,no support system.I am desparate.

[Altostrata]

So given the information I gave what would you do? I tapered off Effexor,felt great for 2 months and waves of withdrawal started comming in till the last one took me out.The vivd dreams give me no sleep I wake up in a pannic and can't fuction all day with waves coming and going all day,Fearfull of going to sleep the next night to start the process all over again,and then the next week feeling fine and better than I have in 10 years thinking the nightmare is over.Menatlly sharp,calm,peacefull patient etc..It seems as though I'm one of the 2% of the poulation that sufferes from dicontinuation syndrome and will face it wheather I taper for months or years? Is there anything I can do ONCE in the middle of discontinuation syndrome?? It would seem silly to me(Though I am certainly no expert and I kn ow you know this suff bettert han me) to re-introduce Effexor Xr to try and taper again,no? i mean it's way gone right? Is it a seritonin thing where I need some 5HTP to buid it back up? Anything Alto please?/??

 

billy, if you recall, we urged you to taper more slowly.

 

You are suffering classic withdrawal symptoms, or withdrawal syndrome. At 2 months out, we cannot tell how long this will last. All we know is you're not going to be one of the majority who recovers within a few weeks. (I don't know where you get the 2% figure, the estimated incidence of people suffering withdrawal syndrome is 20%-80%, although most recover within a few months.)

 

Your autonomic nervous system is destabilized by withdrawal. This is much more complicated than a serotonin thing. Adding serotonin per se is not a remedy. Usually, when people who have withdrawal symptoms experiment with 5-HTP, they get a bad reaction.

 

Going back on a low dose of Prozac or a low dose of Effexor may or may not work. You have to decide if you want to try it, and "do over" your taper.

 

Medicine doesn't have any cures for withdrawal syndrome. If there was any quick fix, any pill people could take to fix withdrawal syndrome once it starts, every single person on this site would take it, and I would be happy to close this site.

 

Instead, we urge people to taper slowly.

 

Read more about what other people are going through, because you are going through the same thing and have to make the same difficult decisions. I'd also appreciate it if you read this entire topic over again carefully, because we've already covered everything you have to consider.

[billy]

I don't mean to upset you with my urgency and misinformation on this topic.I have reached out to serveral doctors,cousellors,church pastors,physchiatrists and the general population about what i am dealing with and I got every opinionin the world.Most people either never heard of discontinuation syndrome or if they got off ssri's they didn't have this bad of a time.The only help I can find is here on a site where I can't see the person giving advice or what their credentials are(i'm not questioning your credentials,but it is the internet afterall),wishing for the next reply to be hopefull.Pranoid and obsessing about the day I might feel better,only to think I never will,with glimses of what life is like free of anti depressants.....Every other affliction has it's methadone,it's 12 step prograhm,it's nicorette,all I have is this site,leaving a very confused desparate person more confused... I am not blaming you or this site and am gratefull you take the time to answer departae people in need. I just need a solid plan to follow and I know you can't offer me a specific one..Thanks for trying...

[billy]

I am off to the Prozac bridge, wish me luck!!

[Altostrata]

No one here can make the decisions for you, billy. You've got all the information anyone can get regarding your next steps.

 

The reason you cannot find definite information is that medicine is in denial about withdrawal syndrome. This puts patients like yourself in a very difficult situation -- having to make medical decisions with very little information and, what's more, having to get your doctor to cooperate.

 

Almost everyone on this site is in the same situation.

 

Please try 10mg Prozac before leaping to 20mg. Taking the LOWEST effective dose is best for the nervous system.

[Barbarannamated]

Billy ~

"Every other affliction has its methadone …"

Great analogy - I suspect that those afflictions also went through a similar phase of denial when doctors did not acknowledge that opiates or barbiturates or benzos were problematic -

There is still no 'methadone' or 'suboxone' for benzos that I'm aware of although the problems are known -

I feel your frustration - my husband is an MD and still doesn't acknowledge the severity of the problem although he is now in w/d from Effexor and also denial that he is in w/d -

I wish we had more idea of who has been able to discontinue without distress especially after long term use - also the number of people who experience withdrawal and HAVEN'T found the help online and are diagnosed as relapses and go back on -

I now recognize feelings and perceptions that I also experienced in the past and especially after a brief whirl thru a detox facility (pain meds and Klonopin) that cold turkeyed oxycodone and fentanyl and did some CT crossover from Klonopin to Ativan which threw me into a tailspin of anxiety and panic - I now realize it was withdrawal but was remedicated with Paxil because that was what was supposed to be best for anxious depression -

I'm trying to say that WE CAUGHT IT - I believe the incidence of people who experience withdrawal/discontinuation is more acurately 80% but a majority don't realize and are remedicated and the statistics are horribly skewed causing us to feel like 'the unfortunate few' who are hit hard -

Once again I'm not explaining well but I hope you understand -

{{{HUGS}}}

[billy]

I wish we had more idea of who has been able to discontinue without distress especially after long term use - also the number of people who experience withdrawal and HAVEN'T found the help online and are diagnosed as relapses and go back on-Me Too Barbarannamated.Frustrated with almost no success stories or paths to follow.Most are helish terror filled stories that leave me discouraged and sad,thinking this will never end.Long term middle of the circumstance hopping this is going to work when all said and done,but not there yet stories.This site is very helpfull for walking you through but I haven't seen anyone get to the end and report back to the rest of us traveling through the rabbit hole needing some idea that the journey is do-able.AGAIN-it's different for every person,but there should be some consistancies that could provide perimeters that could keep the rest of us on a tighter pathway."Think for me for I can't bare to"-S.T.P Thanks for the reply!!

[Altostrata]

This site is only a year old. There are many similar sites with longer histories going back 10 years or so.

 

It's difficult to follow people through the process because many simply don't come back and report how they've done.

 

I can assure you most people who taper gradually do so successfully.

[billy]

Well sad to say the Prozac bridge hasn't worked for me yet, just over two weeks and withdrawal symptoms are controlling my life. Flu symptoms with zero energy and megga anxiety and depression.I do feel as though I am coming out of this 'wave' but the depression and dark cloud following me everywhere has me reminising over past Effexor times where at least I could cope,leave house,wake up and not vommit,eat food,and socialize.Now I can't even imagine any of those things again at any level.Thinking of returning to the demon drug(Effexor XR) and giving in to the torrment and confusion that I experience and others can't seem to understand,in an effort to be normal again.I mean hey this must be the 'difficult decissions' that Altostoria was refering to that people make? because we are trapped between a rock and a hard place with little or no real help from anywhere leaving us lost wandering through this dark forrest just wanting some light.... YOU WIN BIG DRUG COMPANIES,I WILL FOREVER BE YOUR CUSTOMER FILLING YOUR POCKETS WITH BLOOD MONEY,SACRIFICING MY FUTURE AND PAST SO THAT YOU CAN KEEP ME CONFUSED AND SICK NEEDING YOUR FILTHY GARBAGE.I CAN'T PLAY WITH MY KIDS BECAUSE I'M TOO AGITATED AND CANT DEAL WITH ANY STRESS,CAN'T WORK,LOSING MY MARRIAGE,AND EVERTHING ELSE BEACAUSE ONE DAY A PSYCHIATRIST SAID'HERE TAKE THIS,IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER'....

[Barbarannamated]

Billy - I feel your frustration and anger - it's consuming at times -

You said you're coming out of this wave - that sounds good - I haven't been able to identify waves as much as stages: anxiety then dread then total exhaustion then mixed anxiety and dread but less intense and every day different - most days I get a flash of hope but it doesn't carry over to next day or as Alex said 'no traction' …

You seem to be in a similar place -

It's not an all or nothing - please don't beat yourself up - I don't want to give advice on tapering but Alto will have suggestions -

[tezza]

Hi Billy,

 

I understand, I feel that way too, only with different symptoms. I get scared that it will never end and I'm not near being off my poison yet. It's like living in a total nightmare (and I have those when I'm trying to sleep too). I have several meds to come off of if I, no - when I get off Risperdal. Lamictal is one of them. We all feel fear, I think. I'm so sorry for your distress. I've had thoughts of giving in but I know the meds are really poison! Between a rock and hard place, yes! I just want to be able to do the things you want to be able to do again, too. Like to be alive again, it is awful, just know you are not alone.

 

It seems so unfair, like docs did this to us without any consideration of our wellness. Only we,ourselves, can do what we deem best. I pray for strength to endure for the sake of my family. I sincerely pray you feel better soon.

 

Hold on to your faith, that's all we can do. You may want to read the words of a Gospel song in the "Finding Meaning " section. I cry to God to help us all every time I hear it. It's called "Child Your Cries Have Awoken the Master". Never give up all hope (I have to keep telling myself this.) I think everyone here can relate to what we feel. But, please, hold on. I'm not saying don't go back to meds, I couldn't tell you what to do about that. I'm going to keep trying to come off mine but only God knows. God bless you

 

Love,

T

[billy]

Man this sucks!! I didn't go back on Effexor yet,still holding on to hope that the Prozac bridge will work,or i will get over the withdrawal symptoms soon. Taking 20mg Prozac,.01mg Clonidine 2x a day,some sleep solution with 5htp in it at night. Mostly my days start out the same,nightmares throughout the night,waking sick and nauseated and tired, lazing around house till 2pm or so then start feeling better,almost great,go to bed and start over again.Some days I wake up feeling ok and then the sick feeling comes on a little later for a short time. Sometimes I'm so depressed I feel suicidal and entertain those thoughts,but don't give in. Any way of measuring if I am progressing toward success? ALTO-i know your mad at me for some reason,but I am just frustrated. You went through this yourself and should understand. I am 3 months off Effexor.

[Altostrata]

No, Billy, I'm not mad at you. You had to make your own mistakes.

 

Correct, these "rock and a hard place" decisions are the ones I was talking about.

 

There are no guarantees that you will feel better if you switch to Effexor rather than Prozac. I can't tell you what to do now. I think I covered just about everything before. Please re-read this topic.

 

If you recall, my initial suggestion was that you go back on a bit of Lamictal http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1465-billy-advice-for-surviving-pristiq-and-lamictal-withdrawal/page__view__findpost__p__13700

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature, it will help us in these conversations. Instructions: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[alexjuice]

Hey Billy,

 

I have been off Effexor for almost 30 months. I am a whole new person today but I came from a complicated mess of a Drugging. I still have some problems but my major problems are not those you are likely to face.

 

The time it takes to get better depends. It's variable person-to-person.

 

There are a lot of tips and it's worth it to ask questions because missteps or trying to hurryitup can actually result in setbacks...

 

How long have you been off and how are you feeling?

 

Hang in there. You'll be okay. Dont forget that.

 

Alex

[billy]

Thank you Nikki, Shanti, and Alexejice for stopping by to encourage, I am 3 months off Effexor and Lamictal. I started the Prozac bridge late,and some Clonidine to help with anxiety. It's starting to really help alot. I can almost wake up early in the morning everyday,and if durring the day I start to get anxiety I take another clonidine and it really takes the edge off. I am still a little hopeless and any input from ohters who have gotten beyond a certain point to report on whats ahead is encouraging,thank you soooo much and keep me posted please.

[billy]

Oh also I lost a lot weight over the past few months not being able to eat anyhting,and I got some of those nutrition shakes at the grocery store Like Boost, or Ensure that have given me some strength to be able to cope better. No callories going in can hurt your recovery too.

[alexjuice]

A couple things that may seem small to you but worked well for me were:

 

1. Eating something with protein right after waking, within 30 minutes or so.

2. Walking outside for 30 minutes daily

 

Also, I find it helps if I eat small, meals more frequently. I aim to have protein, fat and some carbohydrates in every meal or snack. Be mindful of the carbs if you have issues there.

 

I found a started to feel better when I started to regulate my eating a bit and the walking helped too. And not having an appetite is a problem that I have had as well. I found I have to force myself to eat but that I feel much better when I do.

 

Also, if you can tolerate protein powder, (an undenatured version) you may prefer a shake with some berries, milk (or yogurt), & coconut oil to Boost. I've lost a lot of weight as well. Are you having issues with digestion (constipation, vomiting, diarrhea)?

 

Alex

[Altostrata]

Billy, I moved your update into your Intro and Updates topic.

 

Are you still taking Prozac?

[billy]

Yes digestion is an issue for sure, nothing 'stable' happening there if you know what I mean? Yes alto still taking prozac 20mg,but what seemed to help me the most is the clonidine? I mean if i miss a dose i can feel the heart palpitation and anxiety get going quick.Then after taking it calm and slightly stable. I'm doing better but not anywhere id like to be.Not sure IF the prozac is actually working at all my issues were anxiety,digestion issues,and exhaustion,& hopelessness but I can at least get out of bed now and do some things,till I tire out and have to rest.Everyone I come in contact with thinks "I need to be medicated & withdrawals dont last this long",doctors,friends,church pastors etc.. Limited information out there paints a picture for us sufferers that were really are crazy and need medication, drug companies are successfull at keeping everyone in the dark about this,and supprot is hard to find. I am hopeing for a miricle..

[Altostrata]

billy, the Prozac may be exacerbating those alerting symptoms. As you may recall, you were doing better on the low dose of lamotrigine and didn't need to add clonidine.

 

Taking a blood pressure medicine like clonidine frequently causes dependency on that medication, too, which requires tapering.

[billy]

Just read up on clonidine withdrawal Alto, now I'm really scared. I don't know who to trust? A Month ago I was really freaking out and a friend took me to this Psychiatrist who recognised withdrawal syndrome and said he knew how to treat it, I trusted his direction,and reluctantly started taking the Clonidine along with the Prozac 20mg. Ican almost deal with everyday stuff but am tired and still a little anxious. Is there any safe medication that can gget me through the withdrawal of effexor,and now the clonidine??!! PLEASE I beg you for simple direction on what exactly to do,I'm so confused now.

[Altostrata]

How often are you taking clonidine, and in what dosage?

 

Why are you taking 20mg Prozac rather than 10mg?

 

What is your doctor's plan for withdrawal now?

 

I can't give you a simple answer. You're in a complicated situation.

[billy]

Ok I started taking clonidine .1 mg 2x a day about 3 weeks ago,and the prozac 20mg 5 weeks ago,it is what the psychiatrist perscribed when I asked him for a low dose prozac bridge method. I was very relieved that not only was he the first psychiatrist that recognised long term withdrawal syndrome and claimed to know how to treat it and encourages my request to be drug free. Usulally they argue and are in denial about the stuff they push,but he actually seemed to be anti-long term medication treatment.SO I trusted him with my situation,and he was optomistic about helping me get off this stuff.I've seem him three times in the past month and a half, and the first two visits I was still a mess with terrible anxiety so he perscribed the clonidine. I kinda stabilized somewhat and was encouraged by the progress,but nothing real solid.Still shakey,slightly anxious,and depressed,but much better than previous. I still don't have that sence of normalcy,calmness,and hopefullness or consistant stability.Again I am facing impending divorce and can't work or find a job and stress is very evident,so I don't know if it's more circumstancial or withdrawals. I have windows of complete clairity but I had those moments when I went cold turkey too... So the doctor's plan for withdrawal now is to stabilize me for a few weeks and then he said I can just stop taking both medications with no problems. Now I know thats not true but I am hopefull. Right now my mind can't imagine stopping like that but from what I've read there are argumants both ways.You have stated that everyone is different but at least I am off effexor and lamictal,so I must claim some sort of victory right??? Again i very grateful for your input, I know I am a difficult case and my frustartion has been documented on here by my embarrasment,but I am just like the rest,just looking for any solid solution to get me free. Thank you..

[Altostrata]

billy, I would not simply stop both medications. That is not a tapering strategy. This indicates to me your doctor was shining you on regarding his knowledge of withdrawal syndrome.

 

20mg Prozac is not a low dose. If you are taking the clonidine regularly, you may need to taper off it.

 

There are arguments both ways? You've already experienced withdrawal from Pristiq and Lamictal, what did you learn from that?

[billy]

No you are right,just hopefull that those drugs(effexor&lamictal) might be tougher and these not as tough to get off is all? The longer half life versus the shorter half life argument...And can you tell me how to taper off these drugs? when I decide to? I want to start the clonidine taper now,and actually skipped my evening dose..And advice on prozac taper when the time comes? Pretty please..

[Altostrata]

People sometimes have just as much trouble going off Prozac, plus your system is already sensitized by withdrawal.

 

Read Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Taper the antidepressant first!

 

I don't have any specific information about getting off clonidine. 10% cuts, as usual.

[billy]

Thanks alto..I'll keep ya posted..Oh should I wait till I am completly stabilized or can I start now? Do you think the effexor and lamictal withdrawals are past?

[Altostrata]

I can't say, Billy.

 

Read http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-taper-the-antidepressant-first/

[ChessieCat]

For anyone reading this topic, I have been tapering Pristiq using compounded capsules with slow release formula.

 

tips-for-tapering-off-pristiq-desvenlafaxine