Ryder: Zoloft to clomipramine

[Ryder]

Moderator note: link to benzo forum thread - Ryder: Clonazepam

 

Hi guys,

 

This question has to do with SSRI's and supplements.

 

I was diagnosed with Chronic OCD in January 2015. I have been on and off medication between 2009-2015.

Since 2015 I was prescribed 200mg (Sertraline/Zoloft) Daytime and 2mg Clonazepam for night time sleep. At the back-end-of 2016 I felt that I was

well enough to come of all medications as I just felt able enough to cope on 100mg after a while. I did Cold Turkey for most of it before admittingly and slowly going on the lower dose of 100mg Sertraline.

 

I was afterward sent to a Dr who specialised in withdrawing people from medications.

 

She prescribed:

 

- L-Carneitine (300 mg)

- CoQ10 (200 mg)

- N-Acetylcysteine

- Vitamin C

- Selenium

- Magnesium.

- A Gluten Free Diet.

 

With Gluten diet, I did not stick to this religiously as some of the books advocated here on this forum. Mainly Elaine Gotschall's Breaking the Viscious Cycle. (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) and the GAPS Diet advocated by Dr Natasha Campbell-Mcbride. I am very skeptical when i read over these diets but since my Dad was on the diet, whatever was in the Pantry, I ate. I wasn't religious about it though if I ordered takeout.

 

Back on topic, I reduced the supplements to L-Carneteine and CoQ10 in combination with SSRI Zoloft/Sertraline (100mg). I found that during the time taken them, I had trouble with Cognition and motor skills, driving, runnng and excercise. I also noticed that I couldn't stop feeling dizzy although they are supposed to aide mitochondria in the brain which the Zoloft dulls down. I also noticed real bad insomnia during the time taken these aided supplements.

 

Has anyone else had success with L-Carneteine and CoQ10 prescribed with Zoloft? It seems that people are having great success with these two supplements to rave review, I am just wondering if Carneteine or CoQ10 has worked for anyone to either reduce withdrawal symptoms off SSRIs & Zoloft or taper off completely.

 

 

**Note. I have looked through the other posts here, but most vary in opinion, so I just want this question answered.

 

 

Many thanks.

Ryder.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

[Asjf]

Have you checked out examine.com?

You can search just about any supplement there and get a lot of info. I don't see any evidence of CoQ10 having any cognitive benefits. L-Carnitine had a bad effect of me. Caused severe anxiety--which is understandable considering it can be stimulating.

 

https://examine.com

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Ryder.
 
I've moved your topic to the Introductions forum, as your Introductions topic. Please bookmark it or follow it; you can post your questions and updates in this topic.
 
That practitioner recommended an unusual bunch of supplements. I can't say I've ever seen that before, or why it might assist withdrawal from sertraline or any other SSRI.
 
If any supplement makes you feel odd in a bad way, I would stop taking it.
 
Are you interested in going off sertraline? Please read

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)
 
Our basic supplement kit:
 
King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker
 
If you have questions about other supplements, please go to the Symptoms and self-care forum and use search.

[Ryder]

Thanks Alta & Asjf for responding and apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

 

You know during the 4-days when I was checking back in on this post I did some own research which included seeing other doctors and even the chemists who sell this crap. The majority was of the opinion that it wouldn't help. Exactly what my original GP had suggested but my father was super keen on this person as Mr Fixit.

 

What the chemists and other doctors said when I asked them about the interaction of an anti-depressant Zoloft with these supplements:

• - Acel-L-Carneteine should not be taken in conjunction with an anti-depressant as it will stimulate your mind.
• - Depends what brand you take and absorbtion for the body. 10 different fricken brands for the 1 supplement and in capsules.
• - A different doctor said they will have NO effect and suggested I just pursue meditation, yoga and excercise and really come off the medication really slowly.
• We had a documentary come out in Australia on the ABC recently called 'Swallowing it' on the programme Four Corners. It mentioned the un-benefitial affects of CoQ10 studied by a group of students at Monash Uni in Melb.

What has happened until now:

 

I had stopped taking them as Alta suggested and on my GP's advice. I then kept going on a week and back a week which I felt really bad about because I kept getting chronic nervous and muscle pains. I thought this may be from withdrawing to fast.

 

After a while I stopped for a month, saw a nutritionist who just gave me a loaf of bread to start off in the morning and while it didn't fix things. I felt a whole lot better. It's along the lines of the SCD diet that was advocated on Elaine Gotschalls book. I believe most of these things can be found through diet.

 

Yesterday: I was again suffering a usual copybook bout of withdrawal pain and I did use some CoQ10 and L-Carneteine felt like shite. I swear before I heard of such a thing called supplements, now I am walking backwards. The only positive being that I remember a worse time in my life so I know that I'll get through this, albeit in time.

 

To answer your q's:

 

I am interested in getting off sertraline and I have read your guides to getting off it at length. When I stopped first time overseas, I felt brilliant. Albeit for a month or two so I know that whilst I do need them, I know that I can do without them. That was the good part of going CT. So for the meantime, I am thinking of going back to my original dose of 200mg to stablize and like everyone else who has gotten through it, get off this boat last.

 

Ryder.

 

 

 

[scallywag]

Ryder -- please do not return to 200 mg in a single updose. The drug changes, dose changes and cold turkey may have sensitized your CNS (central nervous system) for the near future.

 

If you still feel the need to increase dose, would you be willing to try "sneaking up" on a dose that works by increasing by 10 - 25 mg?  You could hold that dose for 3-4 weeks to see what improvement if any you notice. Making your increase gradual will likely allow you to stabilize at a lower dose, thereby shortening any eventual taper in the future.

Edited June 25, 2017 by scallywag

[Ryder]

On 6/26/2017 at 1:09 AM, scallywag said:

Ryder -- please do not return to 200 mg in a single updose. The drug changes, dose changes and cold turkey may have sensitized your CNS (central nervous system) for the near future.

 

If you still feel the need to increase dose, would you be willing to try "sneaking up" on a dose that works by increasing by 10 - 25 mg?  You could hold that dose for 3-4 weeks to see what improvement if any you notice. Making your increase gradual will likely allow you to stabilize at a lower dose, thereby shortening any eventual taper in the future.

 

Hi Scallywag,

 

Thanks for your response to my original post. I am still on 100mg of Zoloft daytime. Still thinking of going back to 200mg. Is there a reason you suggested to increase slowly back up to 10-25mg. Did you have a similar experience?

 

Would really appreciate your immediate response and apologies for not replying to you sooner,

Dave.

[scallywag]

Ryder, when you started taking sertraline your CNS (central nervous system) made changes to adapt to the presence of the drug. When you went cold turkey (200 mg to 0 mg overnight), your CNS had to make a HUGE number of adjustments.  Many of those adjustments show up as what we call withdrawal symptoms.  You've been taking 100 mg for several months now (since May or June, your signature isn't clear about when you reinstated), your CNS has likely made more changes. As I wrote, it's better to "sneak" up or down on doses rather than make dramatic changes. The greater the change, the greater the risk of symptoms.

 

I have not personally made such a dramatic dose change but have seen others do so to varying effect. There's a reasonable risk that jumping back up to 200 mg all at once may trigger more and/or worse symptoms.

 

Here are a few links that describe this process in helpful ways:

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

[Ryder]

1 hour ago, scallywag said:

Ryder, when you started taking sertraline your CNS (central nervous system) made changes to adapt to the presence of the drug. When you went cold turkey (200 mg to 0 mg overnight), your CNS had to make a HUGE number of adjustments.  Many of those adjustments show up as what we call withdrawal symptoms.  You've been taking 100 mg for several months now (since May or June, your signature isn't clear about when you reinstated), your CNS has likely made more changes. As I wrote, it's better to "sneak" up or down on doses rather than make dramatic changes. The greater the change, the greater the risk of symptoms.

 

I have not personally made such a dramatic dose change but have seen others do so to varying effect. There's a reasonable risk that jumping back up to 200 mg all at once may trigger more and/or worse symptoms.

 

Here are a few links that describe this process in helpful ways:

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

You are correct. I re-instated 100mg permanantly. I came back from overseas from in June 2016. And re-instated from about December 2016.

 

During the time between coming back and re-instating to 100mg (from June 2016 - Dec 2016) i was gradually tuning up from 0.25 mg to .5mg as I felt the effects of Sert to strong in public spaces.

 

I have been told by my Pyschiastrist to re-instate 200mg. When i go to 150mg I find it not tolerable where there is emotional, mental, pain. Most of this I believe may have been caused by taking supplements (CoQ10, L-Carniteine, NAC) instead of my medicine, as a Naturopath explained that Sertraline was designed only for a short use of time in the 70's and explained that I didn't have an option.

 

I know that jumping between doses or taking them inconsistently is wrong. That is key from what I''ve learnt from the forums on SA. I previously just thought it to be heresay and am stricter about missing a dose of 100mg.

 

Thank you for the links you have provided, particularly the second one. I am seeing my GP today as I still am just not at all coping on Sertraline. So SA recommends slow slow slow which is how the brain operates. In your experience s ok to go back on Sertraline if my Doc suggests this? I was hoping she'd get me onto a new family of SSRI's and forge a new path as I feel I have built a certain tolerance to the drug.

[Ryder]

Hi all,

 

I have read the topic >

 

However still I am confused.

Currently taking an SSRI in Zoloft 100mg and Clonazepam (Benzo) 4mg day-time.

In this instance do I taper off the accelerator (Zoloft) or break (Clonazepam) first ? I have CT'd once before and it might seem light a stupid question. But I don't want to get this wrong as the naturopath that I visited suggested that I taper my Clonazepam down from 4-2mg first.

 

Sincerely,

Ryder.

[ChessieCat]

There is a short explanation here http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/300-important-topics-in-the-tapering-forum-and-faq/ which might help:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?
If you're not having an adverse reaction from the other medications, taper the most activating drug first. This is usually an antidepressant or stimulant (ADHD drug).

[Ryder]

Thanks ChessieCat.

 

I think you are bang on right about this. I am going back to my Doc this so someone can watch over what I'm doing regardless if I I'm right or wrong and want to get off this drug!

But my general feeling is, it is the SSRII giving me Pelters.

 

Your answer is actually just basic common sense. But my goodness do I need it as I just can't think clearly atm.

I'm hanging in there. With one step forward at a time.

 

Thanks for your no-nonsense reply .

 

Dave.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome.  I'm glad I could help.  You might also find these topics worth checking out:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

[Ryder]

Hi everyone Chessie and everyone here on SA,

 

I tried to start the tapering process of 100mg of sert by alternating between 100mg-50mg from day to day over the past month. Then 50mg for a week.  Before alternating between 50mg/25mg etc.

 

I feel like I don’t have the stamina to take 100mg Or 50mg and will often stop intermittently. I was originally diagnosed for a 200mg dose but haven’t taken it for a since September 2016 over a year now and feel better.

 

 My symptoms include sore eyes, muscle tension like cramps, racing thoughts, spasms, insomnia, lethargy and an overall sense of confusion doing daily tasks; memory and cognitive problems walking, driving, cycling. My anxiety is definitely caused intrusive thoughts and I try to tackle head on and this seems to diffuse tension. Otherwise, I feel so frustrated that my body is acting one way and my mind another that I am a shadow of my old self and hardly leave the house anymore except to walk the dog and for excercise. ☹️

 

I want to taper but know I need which dose that is least distressing for me to stabilise.  I have been reading here that stability at first is key. 

 

My my doctor has recommended that I switch to Effexor but I’m not depressed. I’ve read so many stories of people trying to get off it, he said that Zoloft is the “lowest gun in the barrel” pre-scribed to patients. I was thinking the hell with Effexor as I have taken almost every drug there is to take, Zyprexa, Seroquil, Rispirodone, Valium, Cymbalta and others I can’t even remember. Nothing given to me has worked. Only nothing works. 

 

I just want want to know what dosage I should stabilise on of Zoloft, is it worth going up to 200mg of Zoloft again, stick with 100mg/50mg Zoloft or belatedly cross-taper to Effexor 75mg.

 

Just some simple guidance as I am really lost with all this information here. 

 

 

Thanks,

Dave.

[AliG]

Hi Dave.  DO NOT TAKE YOUR MEDICATION EVERY OTHER DAY TO TAPER.

If your medication is not designed to take every other day (very few are), don't try to taper by alternating doses. The half-lives of almost all psychiatric drugs are too short for this to make sense. It causes the amount of the medication in your bloodstream to go up and down, battering your nervous system, and makes withdrawal worse.

Your brain likes stability, to be treated gently. The object is to gradually accommodate it to lower and lower dosages. Don't throw it off a cliff every day. Move it slowly down a ramp by gradually decreasing dosage by an amount it may hardly notice .

 

How long have you been alternating doses? You say over a month - do you have a more accurate date?

 

We will have to work out what dose to take daily as a way of stabilizing. Once we have more information from you we can establish that daily dose.

 

Your nervous system has taken a battering and now it just needs consistency. There is no magic dose : it's consistency that your brain craves.

 

Please let us know the exact time frame.

 

Ali

 

[ChessieCat]

Please follow these instructions about how we prefer your signature to be.  Please include your tapering method and also update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Many members, including the moderators, experience brain fog and it helps to have the information is a way that we can easily see your history without having to read through it.  Thank you.

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

I'm really pleased that Ali realised that you have been alternating doses.  It is very important to take the same dose at about the same time on a daily basis.  This may help you understand this:  Skipping Days vs Every Day Dosing Graph

 

This topic which Alto previously provided explains how to get the dose you need:

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

Changing to a different drug is not a good idea.  There are several reasons for this.  You can end up with withdrawal symptoms from the first drug as well as start up/side effects and sometimes a bad reaction from the second drug.  If you experience issues you will not know what is causing the problems.

 

As Ali mentioned, once you provide the dates of your different doses we can assess what daily dose you could try taking.  We try and suggest the lowest dose possible and request you to keep notes of symptoms which improve/worsen so that we can assess whether to stay on that dose or to increase it by a very small amount.

[Ryder]

Just adding in the details now.

[Ryder]

I feel a bit sad and even shocked!! having to write down all the Meds I had been taking all of this time. When I was younger, I didn't realize it could have such brutal withdrawal effects on the body. I seemed to somehow think I was invincible. I never used re-creational drugs apart from the occassional smoke and Alcohol. That is it! Otherwise I feel completely ashamed writing all of this down, I didn't even think I went through that many drugs more than my local nightspot in my city would be given. Although it is in the past and I can say that I still perform above average, I won't slate myself going on the Zoloft. That was the drug i needed to stabilize everything. It saved me in an odd kinda way for stability even though you certainly don't need any of these drugs to begin with.

 

So this is my detailed history, some of which has only now sprung up just writing it down.

 

When I'm on 100mg of Zoloft I feel functional but get really intense cramps and sore eyes in the back of my eyes. It's a fear I have had of facing people in face-to-face social situations which I guess has become exacerbated. When I'm on the 50mg, the cramps go away. But I get repetitive thoughts like a broken record, chronic insomnia even on the Clonazepam. As with the supplements, they just minimize the effect of the pain that I feel. CoQ10 and L-Carnitine.

 

Based on your advice, you feel that I should stay on the Zoloft and at 100mg? I am really struggling at present even to complete my online degree which I have about a year to finish.

[Ryder]

On 20/10/2017 at 10:22 AM, AliG said:

Hi Dave.  DO NOT TAKE YOUR MEDICATION EVERY OTHER DAY TO TAPER.

If your medication is not designed to take every other day (very few are), don't try to taper by alternating doses. The half-lives of almost all psychiatric drugs are too short for this to make sense. It causes the amount of the medication in your bloodstream to go up and down, battering your nervous system, and makes withdrawal worse.

Your brain likes stability, to be treated gently. The object is to gradually accommodate it to lower and lower dosages. Don't throw it off a cliff every day. Move it slowly down a ramp by gradually decreasing dosage by an amount it may hardly notice .

 

How long have you been alternating doses? You say over a month - do you have a more accurate date?

 

We will have to work out what dose to take daily as a way of stabilizing. Once we have more information from you we can establish that daily dose.

 

Your nervous system has taken a battering and now it just needs consistency. There is no magic dose : it's consistency that your brain craves.

 

Please let us know the exact time frame.

 

Ali

 

 

Hi Ali, I have been alternating my dosage for over 10 months now from December 2016 onwards. I know this is not good but I always get to a point where I can feel my stomach churn, I'm not eating, somehow the body is storing fat at the same time if I have one meal a day, and getting some rashes like my dog is sleeping on my bed.

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by ChessieCat
removed blasphemy

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Ryder said:

I have been alternating my dosage for over 10 months now

 

Your poor brain!  If the doses you have been alternating are 100mg and 50mg then you could try taking 75mg on a daily basis.  You might find that once you start taking the same dose daily that you will feel improvement.

 

You could then hold for several months (anything from 4-6 months) or wait until you finish your degree before you commence tapering.  Tapering by 10% of the previous dose with a hold of about 4 weeks allows the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug and hopefully means minimal withdrawal symptoms.

[Ryder]

Thanks Chessie,

 

It's ok, i've felt better n' I've felt worse. I don't want anyone's sympathy though. Alot of this was my own doing and some of it was out of my hands at the same time. What's done is done.

 

I just want to move through this period and live to tell the tale. So you suggest 75mg and stabilise?. In the back of my mind I want to get of this drug completely, but i guess this is the same for everyone. And I have a track-record of doing just that.

 

Zoloft as I understand it is the safest drug to stabilise on as it is one of the oldest or doesn't make a bar of difference?

 

Thanks C,

 

Dave.

[baroquep]

3 hours ago, Ryder said:

Thanks Chessie,

 

It's ok, i've felt better n' I've felt worse. I don't want anyone's sympathy though. Alot of this was my own doing and some of it was out of my hands at the same time. What's done is done.

 

I just want to move through this period and live to tell the tale. So you suggest 75mg and stabilise?. In the back of my mind I want to get of this drug completely, but i guess this is the same for everyone. And I have a track-record of doing just that.

 

Zoloft as I understand it is the safest drug to stabilise on as it is one of the oldest or doesn't make a bar of difference?

 

Thanks C,

 

Dave.

 

Hi there, ChessieCat has given you very good advice and I would start to take 75mg every day at the same time of the day until you stabilize.  I doubt that it makes much of a difference regarding which drug you are trying to stabilize on as I think the central nervous system responds in the same way regardless of the drug, but I could be wrong.  

I'm going to attach a few links so that you have an idea of what to expect over the coming months and how you will know that you are being to stabilize.  I would keep track of my daily symptom pattern by using one of the guides below or you could use this thread as a diary of sorts to track your progress.  Please do let us know how you are doing.  

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?
After Reinstating or Updating - How Long to Stabilize
Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress  
Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[Ryder]

Hi guys,

 

I just wanted to check-in and state that I returned to a higher dose of 100mg to stabilise and do feel better. 75mg For me Is not my corrrect dosage. Still taking NAC, CoQ10, L-Carnitine to supplement the Pharma drugs.

 

Baroqueep, thanks for the links. Those patterns suggested in the links are to be expected now, I just have to accept some of the pain and grow a thick skin.

 

I do have a question about liquid tapering. I saw in Alto's link.  100mg of Sertraline does not = 100 ML. If someone could give me the correct formula (Maths) of how to calculate a 10% taper through liquid, or a rough guide, I think I can then formulate a long-term plan.

 

So if someone mathematically inclined could look at the following 3-calculations:

 

10% 100mg = 90mg Sertraline.

10% 90mg (Correct if wrong) 90 x 0.1 or 10% =  81mg Sertraline.

10% 81mg. 81mg *0.1 or 10% = 72.9mg of Sertraline.

 

Corrections please if my maths is no good.

 

Secondly, a formula to convert correct dose from Mg to ML for a liquid taper in 10% liquid concentrate. I have read that Sertraline tablets when left easily dissolve in water which is good news. Failing which if this don't work, I want to document my Psychiatrist change on to Effexor which I just would rather not do.

 

Thanks all,

Dave.

 

[ChessieCat]

35 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Hi Rob, I've been reading over your story as I also take 100mg of Zoloft but am now finding that my body is not finding it tolerable anymore. I'm glad to see that is is possible to work your way down, albiet with some patience and grit.

May I ask what weight scale you are using and/or where did you get it from? The scales I have been ordering online have not been fit for purpose so far as the tablets are so light.

 

I am in my mid-twenties now like you were when you first took the drug and have been on Zoloft for almost 3-years now. I don't want to waste another day. I have also been looking at liquid tapering but I don't want to get the measurements wrong.

 

Sincerely,

Dave.

 

Making a liquid from Zoloft tablets is very simple.  If you dissolve a 100mg Zoloft tablet in 100mg of water, each 1ml of liquid = 1mg of drug.  So to make your first reduction you would extract 10ml = 10mg which will leave you with a dose of 90mg.

[Ryder]

Hi Chessie,

 

Thanks for answering my question about convering Mg to Ml.

 

As I understood the old textbook way 10mg ≠ 10 Ml. Unless you are taking into account the 100mg volume of the water as well. I sound like a friggin nerd but I literally am in quite a bit of pain at the moment, and it's hard for me to focus & calculate and is something I really don't want to make any more worse.

 

My understanding was:

 

10mg=0.01ml
100mg=0.1ml
1000mg=1ml

 

Apologies if I am wrong here Chessie.

 

Sincerely,

Dave.

[ChessieCat]

I will admit that I don't understand what you have posted.  I will explain in further detail:

 

100ml water : 100mg Zoloft tablet

 

Divide both sides by 100 therefore 1ml liquid = 1mg dose

 

So extracting (dispose) 10ml of liquid (= 10mg) leaves (approx) 90ml of liquid (= 90mg)

 

As long as you do it the same way every time you will be getting a consistent dose.

 

The next reduction dose would be 81mg (90mg x 0.90 which is a 10% reduction of the previous dose)

 

Therefore you would extract and dispose of 19ml to get (approx) 81ml of liquid (=81mg)

[Ryder]

On 11/13/2017 at 10:56 AM, ChessieCat said:

I will admit that I don't understand what you have posted.  I will explain in further detail:

 

100ml water : 100mg Zoloft tablet

 

Divide both sides by 100 therefore 1ml liquid = 1mg dose

 

So extracting (dispose) 10ml of liquid (= 10mg) leaves (approx) 90ml of liquid (= 90mg)

 

As long as you do it the same way every time you will be getting a consistent dose.

 

The next reduction dose would be 81mg (90mg x 0.90 which is a 10% reduction of the previous dose)

 

Therefore you would extract and dispose of 19ml to get (approx) 81ml of liquid (=81mg)

 

You are right. In essence I couldn't get my head picturing the size of water against the small size of a tablet. I've watched the video.

 

Sorry for the headache. Once I get the appropriate 100ml Cylinder with a 10ml Syringe, and a container, I can begin a taper which is one thing I am looking forward to!

Thanks .

[Ryder]

Hi everyone,

 

I just wanted to check in with regards to my initial post and the journey of Meds and Supplements. First off it was hard for me to stabilize on Zoloft as I just had to get off these supplements I was given. I lost my ability to drive, communicate proper sentences to ordinary people etc and people I couldn't work out the cause given my confused state of mind. During the past 3-months I then tested this removing slowly one by one what I was given by Natureopath that mainly the NAC was to blame so I had to remove that slowly. I then removed the CoQ10 accidentally by forgetting to take it and started feeling ALOT better.

 

If anyone is thinking of taking NAC - N-ACEL-CYSTEINE - please don't, it does minimize anxiety short-term but the long term affects are just as bad as taking a drug. It is a drug in-fact as it messes with the chemistry of your mind. If you need this, get it through a source of food like Asparagus i found an adequate lower dose replacement where I gradually got off it. I still take Asparagus but not every day now.

 

I have read alot about Dr Steven Sinatra's comments on CoQ10. I'll just say it is not for me I get an upset stomach and was a reason I couldn't sleep so well as it kept me up all night.

 

As for L-Carnitine, I am still taking it. I find it relieves some of the pain I experience (Cramps) and helps me to sleep. I plan to get off L-Carnitine too as I noticed that my cousin also takes it but he said its just for fat burning in the gym (Alarm bells were ringing). Another pharmacist advised me it should not be taken with an SSRI, especially Acetl-L-Carnitine as while ALC passes the blood brain barrier faster, it stimulates your mind making it more active with the Zoloft. I wish I was told all this at the beginning but at the very least, I can stop taking them and I can stop worrying about should I have taken them or not. If in doubt, leave it out.

 

Since I last checked in was a while back and I did try taking the 75mg for a few days, but it did not work so I just went back to alternating doses of 100-50 as I just couldn't find my toes. Especially with the Supps.

My general feeling now is to try and try again, by re-instating 75mg of Sertraline without the supplements and I will accept, although I'm admittedly impatient, that I might have to take a few blows in the Championship rounds of pain just like going to the gym and try embrace it as best as I can. As for the Clonaz I've gradually reduced it to 3.5mg over 3-months which is good news now im finally starting to get used to it. Holding with the Clonazepam and getting 4-5 hours sleep which is better than nothing and better than before.

 

Hope all are well and Happy New Year,

Ryder.

[Ryder]

Hi guys,

 

I am having some trouble and need some advice.

 

 In my last post I stated that I would go to 75mg. Began ok but began to feel unwell so, consulted my Psych who suggested I updose to 200mg. My GP also agreed that I updose but slowly.  I went back to taking 100mg for 10 days as per GP's advice. Both wanted me back to 200mg, which I did not want to do, So I comprimised at 125mg which I have been taking in the past week.

 

 

Honestly, I think I am my own worst enemy when it comes to determining what to and what not to take. I have not been sleeping well, and my judgement its just gone and I have now also increased the clonazpem back from 3.5mg to 6mg. When I explained I have been feeling panicky and like numb (De-personalizeation) on 125mg of Sertraline during this past week, my GP again said try it out for 10 days! It's enough no more. I have taken 125mg for about 3 days this week, I started getting muscle twitches and intensely nervous :(.

 

 

I need some help whether it is safe for me to drop back down to 75mg not having taken it for over 3-4 weeks now. I guess what is upsetting me is that I don't know what to do. I feel totally helpless and even though I did suggest in my original post to cross-taper and try a new drug called Effexor, I am not functioning at the minute. I used to be able to be able to decipher a thought, let it go and manage to be functionable during the day time (not 100%, but good enough). Now I am very much feeling like I want to check myself into hospital I am that freakin angry and sad.

 

Current Symptoms:

• Repetive thoughts.
• Rashes.
• Muscle Soreness and pain, kneck, and around face.
• Weight gain even though I'm a runner and swimmer.
• Insomnia.
• Trouble going to the loo. Blood sometimes. :/
• Increased grey hair from stress.
• Confusion, memory loss and DP (depersonalization).

Please can somebody give an honest assessment, I would rather cross taper at the minute than experience what I am currently going through. Sorry for the long post.

 

Sincerely,

Ryder

[ChessieCat]

It's a little bit confusing understanding when you took the different doses.  Could you please help us out and list it (in a regular post) a bit more simply?  Thanks.

 

Drug, date, dose

Drug, date, dose

Drug, date, dose

etc.

 

I've asked the other mods for their thoughts.

[Ryder]

Hi Chessie,

 

Thanks for writing back to me quickly.

 

I Apologise, but good news i Wrote it down daily on a piece of paper. Parents were confuzzled and wanted to see what it was that was causing mood.

 

_________________

Corrections Ryder made in following post:

 

The first date is 16th Dec 2017 100mg Sert/6mg Clon in the header Centered.

There is an error for FRi 22 on the right of page. That is for Fri 22 December 80 mg Sert/ 3.5 Clon

_________________

 

Starting from 16th December 2017:

 

Drug, date, dose             Sertraline(Sert) Clonazpem(Clon), 16th Dec, 100mg/6mg Clon         Sertraline/Clonazapam 23rd-29th Dec                                       

Sert/Clon, 17th Dec, 75mg Sert/3.5Clon                                                 Sert, 23rd Dec, 80mg/4mg                                                                     Sert, Saturday 30 Dec, 0mg/3.5Clon

Sert/Clon, Monday 18th Dec, 75mg/4Clon                                             Sert, 24th, 0mg Sert/2mg Clon                                                              Sert, Sunday 31st (NYE), 50mg/3.5mg

   Sert, Tues 19th, 0mg Sert, 3.5 Clon                                                          Sert,25th, 72.3mg Sert/2.5mg Clon                                                      Sert, Mon 1st Jan, 50mg/4mg

  Sert, Wed 20th, 80mg/3.5Clon                                                                  Sert, 26th, 72.3mg Sert/3.5mg Clon                                                     Sert, 2nd Jan, 75mg/3.5mg

Sert, Thurs 21st, 80mg/3.5Clon                                                               Sert, Wednesday 27th 0mg /6mg Clon                                                 Sert, 3rd Jan 75mg/ 3.5mg                                     Sert, Fri 22 Dec 80mgSert/3.5Clon                                                          Sert, Thursday 28th Dec, 50mg/ 4mg                                                   Sert, 4th Jan, 75mg/3.mgClon

                                                                                                                       Sert, Friday 29th Dec, 50mg/2mg                                                          Sert, 5th Friday 100mg/ 3.5mg Clon

 

 

     Sert, 6th Jan Sat, 100mg/3mg Clon                                                          13th Jan -19th Jan.                                                                                  20th - 26th January

    Sert 7th Jan Sun, 75mg/6mg Clon                                                            13th January Saturday, 0mg Sert/3.5Clon                                         20th, 100mg/ 3.5mg Clon
    Sert. 8th Jan, 100mg/6mg                                                                           14th January Sunday, 50mg Sert/ 3.5mgClon                                   21st Jan 0mg Sert/ 3.5mg Clon

    Sert, 9th Jan 100mg/4mg Clon                                                                    15th Jan Monday, 65.9mg Sert/ 3.5 Clon                                          22nd Jan Monday 75mg Sert/ 3.5mg Clon

   Sert, 10th Jan 50mg/3.5mg Clon                                                                  16th Jan 50mg/6mg Clon                                                                    23rd Jan Tues 75mg, 3.5 Clon

   Sert, 11th Jan, 100mg Sert/4mgClon                                                             17th Jan 0mg Sert/4mg Clon                                                              24th Jan, Wed 75mg, 3.5mg Clon

   Sert, 12th Jan, 75mg/6mg Clon                                                                      18th Han 50mg Sert/ 4mg Clon                                                          25th Jan, Thurs 75mg, 3.0mg Clon

                                                                                                                                19th Jan, 100mg Sert/3.5mg Clon                                                     26th Jan, Fri 100mg, 6mgClon

 

        Sat 27th Jan 75mg/ 2mg Clon                                                                         Sat 3rd Feb, 75mg Sert, 5mg Clon                                                     Sat 10th Feb, 100mg Sert/5mg Clon
      Sun 28th Jan, 100mg Sert, 2mg Clon                                                             Sun 4th Feb, 100mg, 4mg Clon                                                           Sun 11th Feb, 100mg/4mg
     Monday 29th Jan 100mg Sert, 2mg Clon                                                      Mon 5th Feb, 80mg/6mg Clon                                                            Mon 12th Feb, 100mg /3mg Clon

    Tuesday 30th Jan 100mg Sert, 2mg Clon                                                      **Tuesday 6th, 100mg 6mg                                                                 Tues 13th Feb 100mg / 4mg Clon

   Wed 31st Jan, 100mg/5mg Clon                                                                     Wednesday 7th, 100mg/6mg                                                              Wed 14th Feb 100mg Sert/ 6mg Clon

  Thursday 1st February 100mg Sert/ 3mg Clon                                             Thursday 8th, 100mg/4mgClon                                                          Thursday 15th Feb 100mg Sert/ 4mg Clon

  Friday 2nd Feb, 75mg Sert/3mgClon                                                              Friday 9th Feb 50mg Sert/6mg Clon                                                 Friday 16th Feb, 125mg Sertraline/ 4mg Clon

 

 

                               This week: Sat 17th Feb - 23rd Feb.

                               17th Feb 0mg Sert/4mg Clon

                               Sun 18th Feb 100mg/6mg Clon
                               Monday 19th Feb 125mg/4mg

                               Tuesday 20th Feb 125mg Sert/6mg Clon

                               Wednesday 21st Feb 100mg Sert/ 6mg Clon

                               Thursday 22nd Feb 125mg Sert/ 4mg

                               Friday 23rd Feb 100mg Sert/4mg Clon

 

I do have some sheets in a diary and i can dig them up before the Dec 16th date if needs be.

Key **Tuesday 6th Indicates when I stopped taking L-Carnitine. This was a muscle relaxer but I tended to avoid it in mornings as I worried about driving and taking it, my decision making was very bad if I drove on it -  alertness and concentration were down so I chose to cycle where needed.

Bold mg indicates dosages of sertraline.

 

Hope this helps and tried to do the best I could spacing it out on this forum. Hopefully Chessie and Mods can have a good look here over roughly 2 months. I think the supplements are something to look at. L-Carnitine was the last I took on that date until today.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help,

Ryder.

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by ChessieCat
Included correction note

[ChessieCat]

That's fantastic.  If we need older info we'll let you know.

[mammaP]

 

Hi Ryder,  this is just a quick post before I go out, I saw this last night but was too tired to reply. 

First, I will tell you that my experience is that if I miss a dose I can be sick for a week or more. A dose too high can take even longer to recover. 

It is not surprising that you are feeling this way, you are jumping around with doses trying desperately to feel better but making things worse. Please don't think I am telling you off or judging, far from it, I've been there and know how distressing it is. Doctors don't know what to do so they just keep trying new things, their prescription pad is all they know. The very best thong you can do is take the same dose, every single day at the same time.  As 100 seems to be the most used dose you could stick with that, or 75 if you feel better with it, but you HAVE to stick with it. Same with clonazepam, same dose every day. It will take some time to stabilise and you will need to manage your symptoms with natural means, exercise (not too vigorous) fresh food, water and sleep.  

 

The dose chart is brilliant, thank you.  Next we would like you to chart your symptoms  several times a day, this is very importabt because it helps us to see if you are reacting to the drugs. 

[ChessieCat]

This is the example for keeping notes of doses and symptoms:

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Here are a couple of helpful topics:

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

[Ryder]

6 hours ago, mammaP said:

 

Please don't think I am telling you off or judging, far from it, I've been there and know how distressing it is. Doctors don't know what to do so they just keep trying new things, their prescription pad is all they know. The very best thong you can do is take the same dose, every single day at the same time.  As 100 seems to be the most used dose you could stick with that, or 75 if you feel better with it, but you HAVE to stick with it. Same with clonazepam, same dose every day. It will take some time to stabilise and you will need to manage your symptoms with natural means, exercise (not too vigorous) fresh food, water and sleep.  

 

The dose chart is brilliant, thank you.  Next we would like you to chart your symptoms  several times a day, this is very importabt because it helps us to see if you are reacting to the drugs. 

 

Hi MammaP,

 

Thanks for the honesty.

 

1. I jump around because I am in discomfort - you have stated.

2. A secondary factor is sometimes it gets so so bad, rashes, cramps, swelling that Ill report to the Doc I want change. You are right when you say you have to stick with it. I just have it somewhere in the back of my mind that after a period of about a week, I know i'll feel bad, so i'll adjust accordingly according to letting pain being my guide. I had a leg injury in 2013 and only began running in 2016 so I based my assessment of taking medications of how I treated my injury and recovered to learn to run again. It was a great feeling to be able to walk and then run again.

3. Finally, Seeing that when I report my symtoms to Doc that I want to come off or that I am feeling better, so I am advised to taper down to roughly 50-25mg of Sert. Then I jump on to SA and have to decide. (There is so much information, I wish i did not know so much) When it is real bad and you have the days where you are desperate as you say, I just think to meself i'll take the option of cross-taper to Effexor. I noticed in your signature that is what you tapered off in 3 years. Honestly I would give anything to get off Sertraline the back pain, spasms, eye bulging cramps are that I become desperate. I know every Med has a side effect but I have this feeling in the back of my mind that my body has grown used to Sertraline, sorta like an anti-biotic, and needs to change to a different drug.

 

I like the idea of and sticking with it. It is actually so simple and repeated over and over on this forum. It's something I  have to be willing to re-learn to be patient once more. It's just a matter now talk is cheap and puttin it back into action. 100mg I have taken today and Yesterday. Feel O.K. I want to ask. Is it normal to feel like you don't want to do anything even when presented with opportunities.

 

Atm. I'm not working so my mind is idle. We just bought this cheap second-hand piano and its just sitting there. I want to give it a go but have so much lack of focus, attention and ambition and concentration and some of the pages im ready, and pent up emotion and anger. I CAN get myself to write down in a journal how im feeling. But the body just wont go and play it. Do you have to force yourself to go and do things sometimes or how im feeling is how it is. A very silly question, I can get myself to go and swim but play a piano in my heart I want to but cant sit still and concentrate. Grrr. I'll give it a go again tomorrow.

 

Thanks guys,

Ryder.

 

 

 

 

[Ryder]

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

This is the example for keeping notes of doses and symptoms:

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Here are a couple of helpful topics:

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

 

Hi Ches,

 

The first link I have done. They are waves like most people report on this forums but I am beggining to pen it in detail. The 2nd link is great for someone like me who is all-in. That's in the bookmarks.
As for 3rd link, I am excercising. Not working. But mostly at home during the day and make a goal of trying to get out to gym, yoga or football walk dog just 1 thing per day. The Piano thing I have written about is something I have about 5 metres away from me and will just do what I can. If all else fails, I can listen to people - relaxing music that I like music to be played at.

 

Sincerely,

Ryder.

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Ryder said:

Is it normal to feel like you don't want to do anything even when presented with opportunities.

 

It is "normal": disconnect-between-interest-and-actionmotivation

 

 

2 hours ago, Ryder said:

The first link I have done.

 

The drug notes are helpful but as mammaP said below we need you to add the symptoms:

 

10 hours ago, mammaP said:

Next we would like you to chart your symptoms  several times a day, this is very importabt because it helps us to see if you are reacting to the drugs. 

 

Please do this for the next 3 days and then post them here in your Intro topic.  This will help the mods to assess your situation and offer suggestions.