success Razmuk: getting rid of Risperdal

[Razmuk]

I have been on 3 mg of Risperdal for 13 years due to drug induced psychosis for meth. I decided to finally try to get off the med and have been tapering since December. I did 0.25 mg per month for 4 months but when I hit 2 mg insomnia kicked in for a couple weeks so I waited it out for 2 months and this time went down 0.10 mg for this month. It has been 5 weeks since my last taper and my only real symptoms are fatigue, feeling completely brain dead, and occasionally my vision feels all strange kind of like a very mild acid trip. I am sleeping 9 hours a night and everything is calm I just feel completely flat emotionally, brain dead, and tired for the most part. Would it be better to continue the taper or just hold since my symptoms aren't unbearable but they are just frustrating?

[KarenB]

Hello Razmuk, and welcome to SA,

 

You've done a good job of responding to increasing symptoms with a hold.  It's what we recommend on this site, as it gives your brain and Central Nervous System a chance to catch up with the healing and re-adjusting process.  It sounds like continuing to hold for a while would benefit you.  Symptoms should continue to improve over time - maybe give it another month then reassess how you're feeling.

 

The troublesome thing is that you can't just flush their effects of these drugs out of your system.  They change the way your brain works, and that takes much longer to heal.  Reducing too fast puts your brain and Central Nervous System into shock.  It's like yanking a trellis out of a garden instead of gently untangling the plants and slowly removing the wood – it’s too much trauma for the plants/your brain.  (For the source of that simile, plus further discussion, see http://survivinganti...el-your-brain/)

 

Tips for Tapering Risperdal

Many people find Fish oil and Magnesium useful during withdrawal.   

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature – all drugs/dates/dosages etc - so we can see your situation easily whenever you post, and help you more accurately.  Thanks.

Have a read of those and then you can come back to this thread to discuss things further.  This can be your journal to record your tapering and healing progress, and to ask questions. 

Welcome to SA,

Karen

[Razmuk]

I have been on a decent hold on my taper from Risperdal to try and get rid of some of the fatigue I have been having. It has been 2 months since my last taper but mild akathisia has set in a few days ago. The akathisia is mainly in my arms not my legs so walking doesn't help it but swimming does. My question is do I need to get off the medicine faster or slower now that akathisia has set in? I know that antipsychotics cause akathisia and the only way to get rid of it is to get off the med but I don't understand what I should do at the moment.

Edited June 28, 2017 by scallywag
merged topics

[scallywag]

Razmuk, You started a topic called "Akathisia - Speed up taper or slow down."  I've moved your post/question to your introduction topic so that all your information, questions and answers are in one place. It's easier for moderators and other members to answer your questions when we can get the full story here in one topic.

 

When you say you are experiencing akathisia in your arms, please describe the sensations in your own words.

 

Do you notice a pattern of symptoms each day?  Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:

Take notes of doses and symptoms.

Edited June 28, 2017 by scallywag

[Razmuk]

I take .25 mg in the morning and 1.65 mg at night right now......

 

the feeling is like a churning in the stomach and burning in the arms unless I move them...... feels like built up energy I can't get to release.... I would describe it as inner turmoil but it is non-specific to anything just a constant feeling of uneasiness that is especially bad when I am still.

 

My usual methods of dealing with anxiety like meditation, hot baths and stuff don't work to make it any better...... I have tried some supplements I heard could be helpful like b6 and NAC.... They help slightly but the only real thing that helps is moving my arms..... I felt a lot better while swimming but as soon as I stopped the feelings came back.

 

When I take my medicine at night it makes me sleepy enough to sleep but doesn't stop the feelings neither does the morning dose... the feeling is the worst in the morning and I would say probably the least before I take my night dose.

 

My usual pattern of symptoms before this was I would have energy in the morning until about 11-12 then get really bad fatigue the rest of the day. My sleep is good I go to bed at 10 get up at 8 every day. The symptoms I have don't really change from day to day other than very occasionally I will have boosts of energy and feel decent for an hour but that has happened for years before I was even getting off meds.

Edited June 28, 2017 by scallywag
insert paragraph breaks for readability

[scallywag]

Thanks for summarizing your symptom pattern. It's more helpful to see an actual log.  Have look at this link to see what I'm talking about:

Take notes of doses and symptoms.

[Razmuk]

I found out the akathisia may have been caused by trying a supplement called shilajit. I quit the supplement and then decided to go ahead and taper a few days after quitting the supplement eventhough I still had that strange feeling. I also quit all supplements except magnesium and fish oil. Oddly enough a few days after tapering things started improving instead of getting worse and everything went well other than some brain fog until I added vitamin E to help the fish oil 3 weeks after the taper. Adding vitamin E has ramped anxiety up considerably which I thought was odd until I read on WebMD that it can induce cyp3a4 which my medicine is metabolized by. Hoping that it is just the vitamin E and things go back to normal in a few days so I can continue the taper.

[Razmuk]

The most frustrating thing with all this is that the strangest things can make things worse and other things that seem like they would make things worse can make things better. Like I can drink caffeine some and be perfectly fine and sometimes even feel great but taking 400 iu of vitamin E caused my anxiety to ramp up sky high. Overall I am actually improving from who I was on the medicine. My family and friends have noticed a huge positive change in me. The withdrawal is torture and a nightmare and I don't always see the good change that everyone sees in me but the good Lord is getting me through this one day at a time. I have never been stable on the medicine really so I have no idea if all of it is actually withdrawal or just the medicine to be honest. Every taper I do is completely different on symptoms and course it takes. Sometimes I get bad immediately after a taper and sometimes it doesn't go bad for weeks which makes me think that some of this isn't actually withdrawal and is just the crap medicine. For instance, the last taper I held 2 months and things didn't even start improving until I tapered again they just kept getting worse so I don't even know what to think anymore.

[Razmuk]

I am still at a loss on if I am in withdrawal or this is medication induced suffering. Normally my day goes

• wake up, take .25 mg risperdal, 200 mg magnesium, 1800 mg of EPA + DHA fish oil at 8 am.
• I then go for a 3 mile walk. 
• From 8 am to about 11 am I am super activated and feel restless.
• From about 11 am to 4 pm I crash some and feel sort of depressed and down.
• I take 200 mg magnesium and 1800 mg of EPA + DHA fish oil around 3 pm......
• By 5 pm I am normally feeling better and more normal-ish.
• I eat at 5:30 pm every day.
• At 9 pm I take 1.75 mg of risperdal and sometimes melatonin sometimes not.
• I normally sleep just fine only waking up once to go to the bathroom then fall back asleep until about 6-7 am. Then it restarts the next day.

The sad thing is I vaguely remember being unstable all these years but after benzo withdrawal it is like I can't remember details about anything. I can't even remember how horrific benzo withdrawal felt even though I know it was terrible. I have never felt good on medicine other than for a month or so before I started tapering Risperdal. I have been on disabilities for the past 4 or 5 years for anxiety. That good feeling quickly went away about 2 days after I tapered Risperdal for the first time but then came back somewhat by week 3 then didn't come back until tapering to 2 mg.

 

The symptoms are changing from week to week but it seems to have no real basis on when I taper or anything and there is no rhyme or reason to it. I am not too unstable I am actually more functional in life than I have been in like the past 10 years I just feel crappy on the inside most of the day. A lot of times by evening I feel a lot better.

 

I think that one month of feeling fantastic threw me off and now I am just confused on if I am in withdrawal or just back to my old volatile Risperdal self. Also the great feeling for a month could have just been a big wave in the midst of benzo withdrawal and I just didn't feel "as bad". I am not having any physical symptoms just mainly feeling really flat and energy swings. It feels kinda like mood swings but without changes in moods just goes from restless to zapped of energy.

 

On the plus side as I get off my family and friends have noticed a huge positive change in me I just don't feel it as much as they see it. I can actually carry conversations with people without flipping out, go into public and do things with no problems, and just generally function better I just don't feel right if that makes sense.

Edited July 27, 2017 by scallywag
put daily routine in bulleted list + insert paragraph breaks for readability;

[scallywag]

Rasmuk,

 

Your symptoms are almost certainly withdrawal symptoms.  People often experience a short time upto 6 weeks of feeling absolutely wonderful after stopping a psych med. Waves of symptoms and windows of light or no symptoms is a very common pattern:

The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization.

 

When your symptoms have stabilized, i.e. no wild swings within a day or from day to day, you *might* consider starting to taper again.  I strongly urge you to consider making smaller dose reductions than a standard 0.25 mg.  We suggest that people calculate the next dose as no less than 90% of their current dose (10% reduction) and to make those reductions no more often than once per month.

Before you begin tapering -- what you need to know.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?.

 

It can be very helpful to monitor your symptoms. A daily checklist: Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When symptoms aren't stable, we suggest keeping track of your symptoms and doses throughout the day. This post has a useful format for a daily log:

Take notes of doses and symptoms.

 

Good to read that you have noticed improvements, and that friends and family have too!

[Razmuk]

I slowed down my tapering from .25 to .15 per month but recently I just got hit like a truck by anxiety which I haven't had since benzo withdrawal. I am having a hard time calming down and my sleep is getting worse. I tried taking a benadryl last night and it did nothing. I am waking up with like adrenaline surges in the morning and some nausea has kicked in. I feel pretty terrible and just sitting and waiting it out is really hard.

[scallywag]

Thank you for clarifying your dose reductions.  Adrenaline surges in the early morning occur for many people. Please read:

Waking with panic or anxiety; Managing cortisol spikes. (it's a long topic but you'll see that you are not alone with this symptom and may find some ideas worth trying.)

 

Also:

Tips to help sleep.

Melatonin for sleep

 

In all likelihood, the intensification of your symptoms is likely a wave as your CNS (central nervous system) is doing some repair/restoration work. The best way through waves is with non-drug techniques and expanding one's ability to be patient.

[Razmuk]

Well I have been hit with insomnia, nausea, peeing every 30 minutes, lots of anxiety, lack of appetite, morning vomiting...... I am starting to think it would be a good idea to do a long hold and re-evaluate the speed of the taper. My dad keeps telling me to just knuckle through it and get off as planned but I am thinking that is a REALLY bad idea at this point. This whole process feels very isolating even though I have a ton of support on my side. I just feel like I am letting God and my family down sometimes by being weak and not being able to handle the withdrawal gracefully. I used to be such a strong person before drugs and meds and now I dismantle so easily it is infuriating. I may not have kindled my system with meds but I did a lot of drug and alcohol abuse while on meds up until about 7 years ago then I ended up on Klonopin for the fallout from all that and ended up on disabilities. Getting off of klonopin, meth, alcohol, and cocaine was a cake walk compared to this stupid Risperdal.

[KarenB]

I can say from experience that a long hold can work wonders in terms of stabilising and re-finding the strength to continue tapering further down the track.  I held for 8 months, and I'm so glad I did.  My symptoms improved loads, my energy increased, and my emotional stability is much better.  Now I am tapering again and it's going well. 

[Razmuk]

Talking to my parents I mi-spoke about Risperdal being a cakewalk compared to klonopin withdrawal...... and also have almost no memory of all my years on Risperdal.... apparently in benzo withdrawal I was way volatile and a bit on the crazy side. I do remember I ended up in the hospital suicidal at one point but that barely registers as a memory to me. They convinced me to stick to the tapering schedule of .15 per month and just knuckle through it because they can see things I can't see and they see I have been actually gradually improving this whole time just on my side I don't feel it...... but since I have little memory of my nightmare on risperdal and the nightmare of benzo withdrawal I just think I am doing worse... the benzos and subsequent withdrawal really did a number on my memory. Apparently these symptoms I had this past week were due to anxiety from being all alone for a week. As soon as my parents got home everything calmed down, I slept 9 hours straight without even waking up to pee and my anxiety and nausea toned way down. Apparently this has happened a lot in the past while on risperdal and i just have no memory of it. They explained to me how volatile I have been the past 13 years and that I really am doing way better than I have in the past and improving. So I really do believe they are right and this isn't all withdrawal and at least part is medication induced. Having pseudo-amnesia just makes me stuck in the present moment and I have HUGE trouble seeing the big picture. When I am feeling bad my memories trick me into thinking I have felt bad for months and I look at a calendar or my tapering notes and see it has been 3 days. But during this whole withdrawal I have been going out and doing things I never would have thought about doing only a year or 2 ago and have actually been able to carry conversations and joke around and stuff. Also they reminded me that every time I taper I improve for a little bit then after 3-4 weeks I start backsliding so maybe the symptoms worsening is actually my body telling me to taper not the opposite. Hopefully once I get everything out of my symptoms I will start getting my memory back and actually be more reasonable. Sucks being stuck so firmly in the present and only being able to remember slivers of things.

[Razmuk]

Just an update... 9 weeks ago I jumped from 1 mg to 0. I thought it was a really bad idea at first but acute withdrawal lasted a week and a half and was miserable but I have been slowly improving since then. I have some symptoms here and there but so far I am way better than I was on the medicine. I am no longer so inwardly focused, the anxiety and depression isn't nearly as bad, I just have a few strange symptoms here and there to deal with. For the first month my sleep was terrible but now I am sleeping 8-9 hours a night pretty much every night with the occasional night of lost sleep. My main symptom is being cranky but it is manageable and overall I am ecstatic with how things are going. The Lord led me down this path for a reason and I decided to quit listening to the world and listen to what he was trying to tell me. I was suffering a ton until I just decided to listen and drop the medication. My method is probably not best for everyone unless it truly is the medicine causing so much pain. My only advice is to pray and see what the Lord has to say about your situation or listen to that voice inside you telling you what to do. The fear of the unknown can be overwhelming but we can't let it get to us. Also, when things get rough and you think you can't take it anymore just give it a day sometimes the problem corrects itself quickly. One thing I do to help is acupuncture and I actually use some of the herbs he tells me to use. We have found a couple herbs that don't agree with me but some of them help a lot. I pray that you all reach the recovery you are looking for but I can't hang around here too much or I get caught in a loop of focusing on my symptoms instead of enjoying what I can and be grateful for what I can do. Changing the channel in my brain has helped a lot and using the mental energy I have to focus outward instead of inward is the best healing I have done.

[Razmuk]

I decided to come back and give an update nearly 16 months out. I get weekly windows now for a day or two then go back to waves. My symptoms are basically just itchy skin and irritability. I am more functional now than I ever was on medication though. I am highly social and no longer scared of everything. The Lord is digging me out of this hole I dug myself into but I would say I am 75% healed now. I stay away from just about every supplement and otc medication because everything is so unpredictable in me. But just focus on the positive in life and you all will make it. Whatever you do, DO NOT focus on your symptoms and try to fix them. Lean on the Lord also, he is the only way out no matter what you believe. Have a great year everyone and God bless. 

[Glosmom]

Thanks so much for coming back and offering a positive update, Razmuk!  It means a lot!!  So happy you are continuing to heal and are 75% of the way there!  Have a wonderful New Year!! glosmom

[manymoretodays]

Hi Razmuk,

Thanks for coming back and adding to our Success Story section.

 

Razmuk's Success Story is here:  Done with Risperdal and all the other poison for good!

 

I'll go ahead and close this thread now, further comments, questions can go on your Success Story!