Lizzy: I need help

[KarenB]

Yes, you can put that in your signature.  It probably indicates even more that the play JanCarol has outlined is a good idea. 

[Lizzy]

not okay at all anymore?

[KarenB]

What's going on Lizzy?  Specifically what symptoms are you having?  What feelings? 

 

I'm not sure what time it is in Aussie, but did you decide to fill that script? 

[Lizzy]

i haved reached my end,suicidal thoughts, i cant live like this no more, i cant do this one more day, been bed ridden all day  such heavy hopeless depression ,non stop crying, i dont recoginise me any more. i really tried but i cant live llike this anymore, i just tried to get script but it wasnt current and now iam wondering if i go to emergency? at hospital as no afterhours doctors here who will bulk bill me and i have no money, its 5.40 pm, i have tried so hard, i really have but i know i cant go on like this, i dont even know if reinststing is gonna work but its all i got left to try?

[peng]

Most of us would back reinstatement, Lizzy.

In your signature you say:

"....july 2015 - jan 2017 - ....Effexor, Side effects but some stability..."

 

Effexor is a beast - been on it for years but down to half of what I was on a year ago, now!

You can get on a platform in this dark and raging sea and be able to work on a new plan with optimism.

Wait till mod comes on with authoritative advice, though.  I am merely an experienced Effexor user/victim.

 

Love and peace will come again, best wishes!

[JanCarol]

Let me know how you are going Lizzy!

 

It does get better!

[miT]

Reinstatement saved me. It's still tough, but not the hell ride it could have been.

[KarenB]

If it is the only way to get more effexor, you could go to the hospital and calmly explain that you had tried to manage without medication, but it hasn't worked for you.  Tell them effexor has been your long-standing medication, and you would like to reinstate it.  Tell them you only need a few capsules as you can get to your doctor in the next day or two.  Then, come home, open up a capsule and count out two beads and take them. 

 

I wouldn't confuse them with extra info about opening capsules etc - lord knows what the might do then, if they are worried about your state.  Present yourself as a reasonable, capable person who is getting organised with her doctor the next day or so. 

 

Otherwise - if you can hang in there another day without effexor - wait till Monday and go see a doctor for a prescription.  Keeping out of hospital is usually the best idea. 

[Lizzy]

hi everyone, thanks for your support and help? i managed to get an after hours doctor to come to my home and give me a script, which i got this morning. it was for 37.5mgs of effexor, so i opened it up and it is filled with tiny white beads? i can barely see them, as my eyes are bad and they are tiny? so as jancarrol, sugested i took only 5 beads, which is hard to do? i had to pick them up by pressing them to my index finger. so far okay, have had mild akathasia and anxiety and a wave of traumatic memories but that happened yesterday, before i reinstated. i am very afraid at this point, because i know i am in a very scary, fragile and unknown space, i have never been here before and  i am scared that i may lose myself to this and never return? this is such a lonely,excruiating and at times terrifying journey which i am unable to explain to anyone let alone myself. I have been worrying all day about this reinstatement and what if it doesnt work? because then What? this does frighten me because i dont have any other options? so for now i am just trying to not listen to thoose thoughts and to just follow what was suggested, one day at time and pray for hope and wellbieng.

lizzy

[KarenB]

Well done Lizzy, getting that prescription and taking a dose.  Over the next four days, keep written notes - either on your thread here, or on paper - recording what happens each day.  This is how we will work out if effexor is the right path for you. 

 

I know it's scary, but you'll get through it. 

 

The beads are extremely tiny. I use a pair of jeweler's tweezers to pick them up.  Some people place them on a black cloth so the contrast is better.  

 

I'm off to bed now, but I'll check in in the morning again.  Handing over to the other side of the world now...

 

Hugs,

Karen

[bubble]

Hello Lizzy,

 

Most of us have at one point felt like you describe that we might lose ourself and never return.

 

But we do!

 

Our brains have a remarkeable ability to heal themselves. I've also been saved by reinstatement so have faith. Time is your friend. You will start feeling better. Just focus on one moment at a time.

 

Fear was always the worst for me. I had to read lots of stories to remind myself over and over again that people recover. So will you.

 

Do as Karen advised and keep us posted. You are not alone.

[JanCarol]

Hey Lizzy - well done!

 

Now is the important part!  If 5 beads is too much (akathisia) then back off to 2 beads like Mamma originally said (I had mentioned no more than 5 beads in a PM).  But then STAY there.  Plan on taking 2 beads a day for a year or however long it takes to get off the Prozac.  We won't be asking you to taper until you get more stable.

 

The first 3 days will be the biggest adjustment, but then we'll see how you go.  Do you feel better today, in spite of the symptoms you reported?

 

Important part - update your signature to note this reinstatement, and Keep notes on paper about your symptoms.  Write down when you take your beads and your Prozac, and when you have strongest symptoms (maybe not take beads at same time as Prozac).  We might be able to trace how much of this was Effexor withdrawal, and how much of it is Prozac disagreeing with you.

 

And keep all your spare beads!  That one script could last you a long time if you are only taking a few beads at a time.  The thread about Effexor has lots of tips like Karen mentioned (black cloth, tweezers) to help handling the beads go easier.  At least you only have a few to count each day!

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

When you get to feeling better, you can get to the health food store and get some gelcaps, and keep your beads in gelcaps.  That way, you can pack a week at a time, and then not think about it every day.  Just take what you've already packed in the gelcap.

 

I'm sorry this is so hard.  It's criminal the way these drugs are tossed about like they are the best thing since sliced bread!  And no information or good advice on how to come off!

 

I hope you see the sun today.

 

[Lizzy]

okay, not doing well at all i feel like ive reached the edge and and so frightened right now, i feel like im losing touch with reality? i have severe akathasia, ive just done blocks of the neighbourhood, i woke up so depressed but got up and took the prozac and 5 beads again of effexor, wanted to lie in bed again as dont want to face the world,anymore,which i know is not good? started feeling very restless and agitated, and breathing hard, so got up and took 1/2 a 2mg valium, and then 1/2 hour later as no relief took another 1/2. that was around 11.30pm and it has not settled me and iam greatly distressed? and  I am freaking out. as if this is my reaction to reinstating the effexor, oH my God,? i cant cope bieng like this and yet i cant go on as i was? is there any hope for me? please someone help?

[Lizzy]

just to add to my fun , i have developed an absess in my mouth over a tooth, does anyone know if there is anything safe to take in withdrawl for pain? and are antibiotics okay too? am waiting for doctor to come again?

[Lizzy]

update- doctor came, absess confirmed, need to see dentist immediately tommorrow and he gave me augmenten(antibiotic) to start tonight? also as jancarroll mentioned,about taking the meds at same time, i thought i might try the prozac at night and because of todays akathasia, i will drop the effexor down to two beads? any further help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks liz

 

 

 

 

[mammaP]

Hi Lizzy, those effexor beads can be very powerful, I reinstated 5 beads and it was too much for me so dropped to 4 and that was better. Mine had 400 beads in 75mg. 

You had akathisia before reinstating effexor, Is this worse in the mornings or evenings?  We all keep saying to keep notes on paper, just simple notes. I can't remember if I suggested it but I use an appointments diary, they are so easy to get hold of. A page for each day and times for appointments where you would jot down symptoms. You could have abbreviations to make it easier. Also when you go to bed and get up, and when you take the doses of each drug. You will then see a pattern emerge and it will help us to see if the symptoms are withdrawal or side effects.  It is a good idea to take the 2 at different times. Hang in there Lizzy, this will pass. We are all thinking of you and hope that you feel an improvement very soon. 

[Happy2Heal]

you are in my thoughts Lizzy

 

this is hard but it's going to get better, I promise.

 

 

[Lizzy]

hi mamma p, you are right did have akakthasia before, i have had it for the last three days though? i only took 2 beads today and its milder, but still there? i had it very bad when i increased from 2.5mgs of prozac to 5mgs as well? it is always worse in the mornings and around 1 oclock it seems to peak, do feel better late at night, but do go to bed now anxious and exhausted as i know i have to get up and face this all tommorrow? i am not taking the prozac until tonight to see if that helps and to see which drug is doing what? i was wondering if you have recovered now from effexor, i notice your signature says effexor free and i would like to know if you are well now? i am looking for hope too? this probably sounds stupid,considering how i am reacting to a few beads of effexor? ,but would reinstating a full dose stop this withdrawal and stablise me, so i could start to have a life or not? i know i am impatient but i am clearly very unwell and have been for a while now and want it to end and i have lost hope of being well and i feel like what i am doing is not working?

 

[KarenB]

Given that a few beads is causing symptoms, a full dose would be completely destabilising.  If things have been better on 2 beads than 5, then that's a good sign to stick with that and let things stabilise. 

 

It's so hard, isn't it, to believe that you'll be well again one day, but you really will.  It's slow, yes, and so very hard, but healing does happen.  Imagine, MammaP was once in a state like you, and now she is healed enough to be able to help other people.  That can happen for you too.  

 

Morning times are worse because that's when we naturally have higher cortisol.  So if you can find some ways to get through the mornings, the afternoons will be easier.  

 

Karen

x 

[JanCarol]

Hey Lizzy - just checking in with you.

 

How are you sleeping?

 

If possible, it might be best to separate the Effexor and the Prozac by just a few hours.  Like, take the Effexor upon awakening and the Prozac at noon?  (or vice-versa?)
 

If the Prozac doesn't interfere with your sleep, a nighttime dose might be fine for you.  I like to keep all the accelerators earlier in the day.

 

Hang in there - I agree with Karen, I don't think a full dose will be better - you are sensitive now, and all changes should be teeny tiny!

 

It does get better.  I was listening to a recording by John Kabat-Zinn (Mindfulness for Pain Relief) and he was talking about extreme states, and how sometimes we can do it a breath at a time.

 

And if that's too hard, just inhale, nice and deep (through your nose), slowly, gently, pay attention.

 

Then

 

When you are done with that, just exhale, nice and easy, pay attention.

 

Taking it a half breath at a time.

 

This half-breath concept really helps me when things are hard.  All I have to survive is a half breath.  Then the next half breath.  Pretty soon, I can build up to a whole breath.  

 

It will get better.  Now I can easily get up to 10 breaths or 20 minutes.

 

Here is a short recording called "First Aid for Panic," that might help you get through.

http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/music/FirstAidPanicF.mp3

 

You might also be helped by Claire Weekes

Dr. Claire Weekes - Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

and Baylissa Frederick:

Bliss Johns Mindfulness  (10 minutes)

 

and here is Jon Kabat-Zinn, doing a body scan, which many here find soothing:

Jon Kabat-Zinn Body Scan  (20 minutes)

 

These are examples of Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms that help us get through the rough times. 

 

Think about building a toolkit of things you can try when in distress.  Take a walk, take a bath, listen to music, phone a friend, curl up and cry, dance, play solitaire - anything to distract you from your symptoms.

 

And oh - putting Epsom Salts in your bath is very calming:

Epsom Salts - Another Way to Relax with Magnesium

 

So it does get better, and I'm hoping that at least one of these tools which have helped me (and so many others on site) will help you too.

 

I hope you see the sun today.

 

[JanCarol]

Hey Lizzie - when you get a chance - how are you taking 5 mg Prozac? 

 

Are you taking liquid?  Or are you splitting capsules?

 

Thinking of you today.

[Lizzy]

i am no okay, today is day 4 of reinstatement of effexor, just 2 beads today, i switched the prozac to night time last night , in answer to your question jan i take Prozac in a tablet( a 20 mg which i cut in to 1/4 tablets with a pill cutter) cannot afford liquid. so symptoms today again awoke distessed but not wanting to get out of bed, got up took 2 beads of effexor, went back to bed and lied there trying to breathe through  the distress, got up at 12pm again hit with severe akathasia, manged to shower a. i am shaking writing this and am very distressed as this could be the effexor which means if i cant reinstate ,what do i do? i am so un well and i know i have reached my limit and i feel there is no hope for me. i cant endure any more, oh god help me!

[KarenB]

Are today's symptoms worse than yesterdays, or the same?  

 

Moment by moment Lizzy, we'll work it out. 

[Lizzy]

hi karen, today does feel worse but also different? i am  so very suicidally depressed and know i cant take any more of this? i know i cant endure   a week more of this, let alone months? this depression is so severe, yet feels worse than last time i withdrew as i knew then i could go back on the effexor, whereas now i dont know if thats an option? and that distresses me more,as i said just before if i cant reinstate the effexor, what will become of me? this is not living and this is not doable anymore and if go to emergency because i feel so unsafe, well they will just want to give me more medications and tell me this is my fault for stopping the medication.

[AliG]

Lizzy. This is only day 4 of reinstatement Effexor- 2 beads. It could possibly take up to 10 days or more for symptoms to settle down a little. Please read the links JanCarol provided above as there is a lot of valuable information contained there. These basics form the backbone of self- care that will help to see you through this withdrawal process.

Try, if you can not to think too far ahead at this point. Please keep notes and stick to the reinstatement plan suggested for now. I know this is hard but you can do this.

 

Is there anything you like to do that is distracting and absorbs you? I found distraction was one of the tools that helped me over some of my worst bumps. It could be exercise, painting, music, meditation etc. Essentially, anything that brings you joy and helps to make the time go just a little bit more quickly when you're feeling down and full of despair.

Let's see what tomorrow brings .... Hang in there.

[Lizzy]

the last two days have been utter hell!!!! today was day 6 of reinstatement of 2 beads of effexor and i dont feel better at all? i couldnt even get on the computer yesterday as i just couldnt cope with looking at more of this withdrawal hell ? i appreciate all the suggestions for self care etc but what do you don when you cant even do that ? it just makes me feel like im not trying hard enough,which is not true because every ounce of energy i have at the moment is focused on not killing myself or ending up back in hospital and forcibily drugged. i dont know if im even making sense any more, the days are just blurring into one long nightmare? i have spent all day today and yesterday lying in bed or lying on the lounge room floor, just trying to either sleep this distress away or stop the suicidal thoughts or stop the ruimanting of i cant do this anymore and what am i gonna do if reinstating the effexor doesnt work? like i said its been 6 days now of 2 beads of effexor and i feel like i did last time i withdrew, exactly the same full blown withdrawal symptoms and i have noticed the last few days on waking , i want to get up and take the effexor? like ive started to need it again which could be just in my head because isnt that what withdrawal is? so i wake up distressed and need to get up and take a drug, hoping it will stop it, but it doesnt and then i go back to bed because i dont want to face the world anymore or my life and the utter despair of the shell of the person i have become? i dont recognise myself and i dont know how i have held on so far, the utter hopelessness and neverending thoughts of suicide are becoming to much, especially when there seems to be no end in sight, does there,without no end in sight you loose all hope and that is the place i am at now? i wanted off these toxic drugs so i could live, so that i could have a life with some happiness and joy again, but this is not that at all, this is worse than i could ever have imagined, i am reduced to barely functioning at all,even having a shower or eating and not being able to leave my house? and to have to do this for another day, or week or any longer, for what more of this? Every day lately a bit more hope in me dies as i ly wracked in utter despair, as another day in my life passes me by without me having lived it!

[Happy2Heal]

((((((Hugs))))))

I am sorry this is so hard. we all understand, we all have been where you are now (well, most of us, anyway)

we know it's difficult. But you can get thru this!!
 

you need to not think about yesterday and do not think about tomorrow. Just stay in the present moment

 

I can hear you saying, well the present moment sucks, and I understand that, I do. it does suck.

but worrying about how long it might last or what happened before, that is only going to make yourself feel worse.

 

if you can distract yourself with TV, youtube videos (esp silly ones like talking animals or babies) read, if you can, or listen to an CD or something, anything to get your mind off how you feel....

 

have you read about what is happening in your brain? the reason you feel so bad is that your brain is working to heal itself.

it's got a lot of work to do, and it can only do it in batches, so while one things is being worked on, other things are all messed up.

That is what makes you feel bad.

 

But it also lets you know that your brain is doing what it needs to do, to heal.

as stupid as it sounds, you feel bad because your brain is making you better... it is healing itself.

 

I know it's small comfort now, but this means a window of feeling better is coming.

 

hang on to that, you WILL heal, it will get better.

 

have you tried soaking in epsom salts? it really does feel good.

 

I find that being in a car as a passenger is soothing to me, also taking a bus ride (not quite  as soothing but nice anyway)

look for things that make you feel even a tiny bit better.

 

and watch for things to GET better, even just a tiny bit. Focus on the things that are getting better and they WILL grow.

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Lizzy.

 

Please do your best to stay calm. You are experiencing effects from the drugs. Remember your thoughts are simply thoughts, you can choose to follow them or change the channel.

 

Since you added a little Effexor, have you gotten better. worse, or stayed the same?

 

My guess is the amount of Prozac you're taking is too much for you. You will have to figure out how to take a smaller amount, such as 4mg.

 

There are two ways: 1) With a prescription, have a pharmacist make up 4mg capsules. There may be additional cost in this. It may not be available at nearby pharmacies.

 

2) Make a liquid from the Prozac tablet yourself. Instructions are here Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

[Terry4949]

Hi lizzy , just wanted to let you know that you are certainly not alone , reading your experience is as if I had written it , I am now 3 years of Effexor and still struggling , even now I keep thinking about reinstating so far out , I have been put on 6 plus medications since and nothing has worked just made things worse , I would do anything to stabilise but like you , I am so frightened of being made worse , I wish after 3 years I could say that I have found something that has given me some  relief but I can't , we just have to hope that tomorrow is a better day , reinstatement for me is not going to work after 3 years but because you have been of a shorter period it may work for you , 

[JanCarol]

Hey Lizzy, how are you?

 

Please put the date of your 2 beads of Effexor in your signature so that we can continue to track your progress.

 

Are you down to 4 mg of Prozac?  Is that better?

 

Here's what we are looking for:  is it better to change or better to hold?

 

Usually, holding is the more sure-fire bet, unless you are unable to metabolize the drugs.  Then - it would be better to get you off of them.

 

I'm sorry the self-help was out of reach.  Can you just try the one - First Aid for Panic ?  It's just 4 minutes long.  I know that's only 4 minutes - but it's a start.

 

I understand that sometimes your experience is too extreme to reach for self help.  At those times, what Happy2Heal said about distraction is good. 

 

Your walks around the neighborhood are a good distraction.  The tick-tock motion of walking is good for healing brain, and you  get sunlight and sky and green in your eyes, which is healing, too.  Phone a friend is one of the harder ones, but it works.  I can vouch that many people who phone Lifeline to talk when they are in distress have not had their privacy violated (the do not call ambulance or cops), and I've heard that the people on the other end of the phone are good, compassionate listeners.  I cannot vouch for Beyond Blue, though I've been told they do not take pharma money (they seem to buy into the medical model of distress, with diagnosis and drugs).

 

Make a list of things you can do.  Even the most simple ones, like watching children's TV or animal videos on YouTube.  

 

If thrashing on the floor is all you can do - then do it.  Turn up the music and thrash on the floor in emotional pain.  It won't kill you.  Eventually your body will get tired, and maybe you can start crying (healing) and rest.

 

I'm sorry you are struggling, let us know how you are going.
 

[Lizzy]

what do i even say anymore? ive been too distressed and suicidal to even post lately? i am so very very tired of this? i have reduced the prozac to 4mgs at night ,two nights ago (sunday) and its now been 10 days of rienstating effexor( 2 days of 5 beads and 8 days of 2 beads)? this is no way to live? my whole life is none existant now, consumed with utter madness of symptoms and side effects and constant thinking of whether to continue with this futile withdrawal,with no end in sight ? to try and reinstate a full dose and pray it doesnt kill me? or to just give up entirely and surrender to the suicidal thoughts? i spent yesterday sitting in the park opposite the local cemetry, crying hysterically as the suicidal thoughts were so bad, then i walked around the cemetry( because the akathasia was so bad!!!), wanting to lie down on a grave and just die then and there? it was horrific and the only thing that pulled me through was the thought "THIS IS NOT ME , THIS IS THE DRUGS"  .I dont know how anyone has endured this state for months or even years? how anyone could endure withdrawals this intense for years, well astounds me because i know i cant ! I honestly cant endure this mere exsitence much longer,let alone months more? which leaves me where? i only have one life and mine is bieng drained away from me , moment by moment, day by day ! surely  there has to be an answer , that does not include enduring such suffering everday. liz

[KarenB]

Dear Lizzy, it is so important to remember that the level of suffering you are experiencing now is NOT going to continue for months or years.  This is the first stage - where you are trying to get stable - and it's the hardest.  Once we find what works for you, and once some time has passed to allow your CNS to begin to settle down a bit, you will start to feel better.  Bit by bit, it will happen.  

 

Perhaps think of it as being in the Intensive Care Unit at hospital.  This is when a person is suffering the most and needs the most care.  Soon, when more stable, they move out to the regular wards.  And from there they go home again.  Right now you are in ICU.  But you won't be there long-term.  

 

You did great work telling yourself 'it's the drugs, it's not you.'  You have the strength to get through this.   

 

Hugs

Karen

[Lizzy]

So,,i wanted to update everyone with how im going? on wednesday i wrote my daughter a goodbye letter as i couldnt take the pain anymore and i was thinking of taking an overdose of pills and just not waking up anymore. the most distressing thing about this is that i actually felt relief in that decision? which is not me or the right one at all. i ended up calling a friend and after talking it through with her i decided to reinstate a full dose of 37.5mgs of effexor, which i did on thursday morning. today is day 4 of that and so far its okay( as much as bieng on these drugs can be?) it has stopped the severe suicidal thoughts, which is what i needed and which tells me that withdrawal was causing them. I feel very depressed still and fatigued and confused and so unsure of who i am anymore or where to go from here. all i know is that i had reached my end and i knew it and i had to do something to stay alive and reinstating was my best option at that point. you can't end up dead! i feel so utterly lost right now but i am alive. liz

[peng]

You made the choice about the 37.5mg Effexor.  Many, particularly myself, will not knock your choice, Lizzy.

Hope you find a bit more stability on which to recharge.  Usually, any beneficial effects these nasties may have for some do not kick in until about 10 to 15 days, so look to that and hang in there.  Please be patient a little more.

 

Dont worry about the 37.5mg dose - I am on 3 times that amount with some degree of optimism.  Will have to hold at that, though, as we are involved in the trauma of moving house after 39 years.

 

An experienced senior GP once said to me "we are not going to get hung up on a dose are we?" when I argued with him about that subject.  Maybe he was right.  I am still here with my family and feeling useful.  I am even looking forward to further reducing the Effexor (using the SA method!) until I hit the buffers, whenever that may be.

Possibly, I will get to live a life without any side effects eventually.  As long as there is life there is hope.  Just hit my 72nd birthday last week - depressing (ha ha ha), but I am fighting fit again!

 

Love & good luck, mum! XO

 

peng.

[joy2730]

I can understand you updosing to the amount you were on before, rather than a lesser amount.  I am glad you are feeling better, I have done the same thing myself before.  Isn't it odd that you can then feel so much better so quickly?  It was be the withdrawal that led you to feel like that.

 

It feels like a trap that a lot of people are in, both on this site and elsewhere.

 

Let us know what you do next

 

Joy

[JanCarol]

Hey Lizzy - 

Quote

 i have reduced the prozac to 4mgs at night ,two nights ago (sunday) and its now been 10 days of rienstating effexor( 2 days of 5 beads and 8 days of 2 beads)

 

Please please put the dates of these changes in your signature.  It is important that we see changes in your signature so that we don't have to go looking around your thread for this information.  It is vitally important for tracking your symptoms and healing.

 

7 hours ago, Lizzy said:

i ended up calling a friend and after talking it through with her i decided to reinstate a full dose of 37.5mgs of effexor, which i did on thursday morning

 

 Please please put the date of this reinstatement in your signature!  

 

I'm glad to hear that the 37.5 seems to have balanced the worst of your emotional symptoms.  Plan on staying there for awhile - maybe 6 months - before trying any adjustments.  That it helped so quickly is a really good sign that we understand what is going on with you.  

 

Have you discontinued the prozac then?  Please please put this info in your signature!

 

You can use this time now to learn more about Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

And add in the all important healing supplements:  Magnesium and Omega-3 fish oil

and start taking calming baths:  Epsom Salts - Another Way to Relax with Magnesium

 

Please keep us posted, and I know it may not seem important to you, but please update your signature with:

Dates on 5 beads, 2 beads of effexor

Date decreased Prozac to 4 mgs

Date of 37.5 mg reinstatement effexor, and

Date of discontinued Prozac (if that's what you've done)

Thanks, and I'm glad you're feeling better! I hope you see the sun today!