PinballWizard: Journey to freedom

[PinballWizard]

Moderator note:  Link to PInballWizard's benzo thread

 

 

I have been on Celexa 20 mg/day for ten years. I have hone cold turkey several times with disastrous results. I have also been on Lamotrigine 100 mg/2x daily for three years and 100 mg/day for three years before that. I take Valium as needed and have decided to stop taking it since I haven't taken it in several weeks. I have decided to stop taking these drugs. I am working with my psychiatrist and want other people's  experiences with withdrawals. I know it will take time, and I am not in a hurry. Thank you in advance.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Shep

[mammaP]

Hi PinballWizard. Welcome to SA.  Many people here have tried to quit psychiatric drugs with the same results. The secret is to go so slowly that the drug is sneaked away from the brain so stealthily it will not notice it has gone. I am glad that you are prepared for the long haul, so many people who come here want to be off within weeks, which is what most doctors recommend. Sadly we get the fallout from doctor's tapering schedules and it is heartbreaking sometimes to see the state they are in after a too fast taper on doctor's orders. Here at SA we recommend tapering no more than 10% of the CURRENT  dose with 4 weeks between drops to allow the brain to adjust. This is based on extensive research and the experiences of our members and others on various different forums.  This can take a very long time but it means that people can get on with life and function while tapering. Many feel better as the doses get lower which is brilliant. I am in year 5 of my tapers and will be tapering for some time yet but it is much better than being on them for life which is what my doctors told me!  We usually advise tapering the most activating drug first, which would be the celexa. 

 

I will get some links for you.  First, we ask all our members to fill in their signature with their drug history, especially the last 2 years. Include the valium and how often you took it. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Tapering multiple drugs. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-taper-the-antidepressant-first/

Tapering celexa

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/page__pid__19887#entry19887

Tapering lamotrigine

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1122-tips-for-tapering-off-lamictal-lamotrigine/

 

It's good to have you with us. 

[PinballWizard]

Thank you mammaP!! After my recent episode, I started doing research on getting off the medication. I began with YouTube, which did not offer much help since most people were stopping their medications in as short as 2 weeks. I finally watched a video that referenced the previous site (Paxil Progress), which led me here. I'm amazed by the amount of information and wish I had known all this earlier. My main reason for starting Celexa and Lamotrigine is behind me, but I still have a lot of stressors in my life. I am very sensitive to a lot of drugs and had face/eyelid twitching and hand shaking at 30mg/day of Celexa. I'm more interested in giving my body time to adjust to each new dose before moving forward. If it takes several years, then I am prepared. I want to minimize the withdrawal symptoms as much as possible.

[PinballWizard]

I have been taking Valium on and off for several years now. For the past 4-5 months I have taken 5mg up to 3 times a day for anxiety. I would do this for several weeks then stop for several days. Then I would take 1 first thing in the morning for a week. Then stop for a week. Then take 1 before bed. Then take two a day. You get the picture. I have noticed that I have been extremely fatigued over the last 4-5 months. My brain feels jumbled and I can't make decisions. I just don't feel "right". I took my last Valium a week ago and don't plan to take any more. I have a lot of stress in my life right now (buying a house, starting a business, fighting for custody of my kids), but I feel like I can handle it. I have a great therapist that I see once a week. I hate the way Valium makes me feel lethargic and out of it. I can't focus, concentrate or do anything productive when I take it. I feel like I have been on a roller coaster the last 5 months. Could this be a sign of withdrawals? Has anyone else experienced this? How do I go about tapering off Celexa and Lamotrigine if these are withdrawal symptoms. I am meeting with my psychiatrist next week. Thank you for your support.

[Madeleine]

If in the past 4-5 months you've  been taking Valium more often then before it's very possible the roller coaster feeling is due to the Valium.,..

[Shep]

Just a FYI that PinballWizard is also on the benzo forum:

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi, I tend to agree that the valium may be giving you some odd symptoms still even though it has been a while since you took it.  It would be good to given the valium up if you can.

 

I am not qualified to say this, but it might be to your advantage in having the lamotrigine on board while trying to withdraw from your SSRIs, so that could be useful.  Apparently it can make withdrawal easier, smoothing the path a little and helping with sleep?  The moderators will be able to point you in the right direction for information on lamotrigine and SSRI withdrawal.

 

How are you feeling at present?

 

Joy

[PinballWizard]

Joy,

 

Feeling alright. After talking to my therapist, we agree my anxiety over the last few months have been made worse by Valium withdrawal. Each time I feel the sensation of anxiety without a cause, I go looking for a cause which makes it much worse. I've asked my wife to remind me that each time I get anxious that it is probably withdrawal systems.

 

Once my Valium withdrawal is over, I am planning to start tapering off Celexa as mammaP recommends.

 

On 6/27/2017 at 2:50 AM, mammaP said:

We usually advise tapering the most activating drug first, which would be the celexa

 

I will consult my psychiatrist before doing anything. I will use this site for guidance and building my knowledge. My psychiatrist should not have told me to stop taking Celexa cold turkey. I now know how to do it properly and will be in the drivers seat when I talk to my doctor.

 

I will return to this post when I start my tapering. I will be posting on the Benzo Forum (PinballWizard: Is This Valium Withdrawal?) until then. I am going to continue to follow your progress.

 

PW

[joy2730]

Sadly when people withdraw from tranquilliser such as valium anxiety is a common reaction, likewise from antidepressants depression is a common reaction, from sleeping pills, insomnia, from antipsychotic, psychoses - there is a pattern.

[Flowers]

Hello Wiz

 

Just seen your post on Joy's thread and you mentioned you had started your taper.

 

I just wanted to wish you well on your tapering journey.  It is early days yet but you have taken the first step which is always the biggest.

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers xxx

[PinballWizard]

Flowers,

 

Thank you.  You have been an inspiration to me.

 

Wiz

[Flowers]

I will be following you to see how you progress.

 

How are you feeling so far?

 

Flowers xxx

[PinballWizard]

Hello,

 

It has been a while since I last posted.  I have been off Valium for 3 months (last dose June 23, 2017).  There has been a big difference in my mood, and I feel more in control of my anger.  My therapist noticed a difference a few weeks after I stopped taking it.  She said I was more coherent and clear headed.  I stopped having withdrawal symptoms about a month after I quit taking it.  Victory!

 

I decided to begin tapering Celexa a few weeks ago.  I have a new psychiatrist.  He is supportive but still skeptical about me tapering.  I told him I was going to taper from 20 mg/day to 15 mg/day.  I used the techniques on this site (Home > Support> Symptoms and self-care > How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?), and he agreed to the tapering.  He was a little shocked that I was only reducing my dose one milligram at a time and waiting at least four weeks before deciding to taper again by one milligram.  He has been doing his job for a while, and I get the feeling he has never had anyone do what I am doing.  I am sure this is true of most psychiatrists.

 

I took my first dose of 19 mg of Celexa on Saturday, September 16, 2017.  I am keeping my other medications the same (see my signature for a list of meds).  I cut the 20 mg pills in half and crushed one half to make a 10 mg/10 ml solution.  I took the half pill and 9 mg of the solution.  Unfortunately, my symptoms intensified until I went to Urgent Care on 9/24.  The doctor mentioned that the absorption rate might be different then what I was used to.  I was prescribed 19 mg (9.5 ml) of the liquid Celexa.  Luckily, my pharmacy carries the solution. Another victory!

 

I began taking 19 mg of the liquid Celexa on Monday (9/25).  The last two days have been difficult.  Physically, I feel nauseous, lightheaded, dizzy, and I have a headache.  My appetite has decreased and I have very low energy in the afternoons.  My moods have been more intense, but my ability to recognize them and deal with them has been much better.  Victory! I am using the Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms by Dr. Joseph Glenmullen to track my symptoms daily.  I take the Celexa at 7 AM each morning and notice that my symptoms are most intense at about 10 AM.  The symptoms last for about 2 hours and then reduce to a more manageable level.  Unfortunately, I hit the wall at about 1 PM and cannot function for the rest of the day due to extreme fatigue.

 

I tried to describe my experience to my therapist last night.  There is not a word to describe it or even anything to compare it with.  I feel happy and sad at the same time.  Angry and peaceful.  Clear-headed and confused.  Composed and flustered.  All at the same time.  But at the same time none of these.  I know my brain is compensating for the change in Serotonin, while experiencing emotions and feelings in a different way than before.  My therapist called it an adventure.  I’m not so sure that is how I would describe it. Perhaps, journey is the right word.  Doesn’t really matter. I do know that I feel a difference.  I hope it is in a positive direction.

 

I am prepared to take my time.  I know this is not a quick process.  Especially for someone extremely sensitive to any change in medication.  I am going to take it one day at a time.  Sometimes, I have to take it one hour at a time.  My goals for tapering are:

 

Short Term - Get stable on 19 mg of Celexa (at least 2 weeks after withdrawal symptoms subside)

Medium Term - Taper to 15 mg of Celexa (6 months to one year)

Long Term: Completely stop taking Celexa (unknown time limit at this point)

 

I look forward to the journey in front me.  I am glad I am not doing this alone, and I thank everyone for sharing their experiences and support.

 

Sincerely,

PinballWizard (Wiz)

[joy2730]

Remember that you can actually make more progress sometimes by slowing down - it avoids having to updose.

 

You are doing all the right things.

 

Be kind to yourself.

 

My doctor says if you have problems with tapering at all it is a sign that you will struggle and struggle but this is probably what she sees in the surgery from larger drops.

 

Joy

[PinballWizard]

All,

 

I am on day 17 of taking 19 mg of Celexa.  Wednesday through Saturday were rough. I felt like I had a bad cold...nausea, headache, sore throat, etc. I felt more normal yesterday (Sunday), which was a relief. Feeling tired and my head hurts a little today. Still an improvement from last week.

 

I am having more mood swings than before. I'm finding it difficult to control my anger in the morning. I also feel sad and feel like I am going to cry. I feel more in control about an hour after I take my medication at 7 AM.  I may try taking my medication earlier and then going back to bed to let my emotions run their course so I can get on with my day. Does anyone have any experience with the roller coaster of emotions?

 

Thank you!

PW

[Flowers]

Hi Wiz (hope you don't mind me calling you that?)

 

You are doing great and felt more normal yesterday which is fantastic news and this week you say is better than last week.

 

Roller coasting of emotions is normal for some of us I am afraid. I can make myself feel better by taking a walk. If you get a chance there is information on here about neuro- emotions that may help you understand what is going on.  Just put neuro-emotions in the search box at the right hand top of the page and lots of info will appear.

 

I really hope as the days go on you get to feel a little better. Keep posting to let us know how you are doing.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frogie]

Hi PW:

 

I just browsed your signature really quickly. Are you still on everything except Valium?

 

I went off everything except Xanax and Lexapro first. I'm working on Lexapro then on to Xanax and I'll be done. But it will take a long time.

 

I'm on Lexapro which is very close to Celexa. All I can say is go slow, slow, slow and slower. Don't rush it or you will end up like I did a HUGE mess. If it wasn't for SA, I don't know what would have happened.

 

I'm really nervous about going off Xanax, but I know with my therapy, I can do it. But I have people on here that will help me too. I'll be looking for your help, and I can help you also. But I'm not a mod or a dr. so it's all just what my symptoms were, if that can help.

 

It's really nice to have friends from all over the world that don't judge you. They are all here for the same thing to get off these horrific meds and heal. And to help each other.

 

I look forward to talking with you in the future.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[mammaP]

Hi PW,  I'm so glad that you quickly stabilised after your valium taper. That is great news.  People often find it hard when going from tablets to liquid and we would usually recommend gradually switching as you were doing by taking part tablet and part liquid and stablising before tapering, it is normal to feel some changes.  You are beginning to feel better so that's good.  Be aware that 1mg is 5% of the full dose, and reducing 1mg each time will increase that percentage. 5% is a good start, it will show you how your body will tolerate tapering and whether you can go faster or need to go slower., but as you get down you will need to make reductions based on the CURRENT dose.   Wait until you have been stable for several weeks before another cut to let your body adjust to the transition from tablets to liquid. and you will be just fine. 

 

[PinballWizard]

It's been a while since I posted.  I am back to 20 mg/day of Celexa.  I had a breakdown on October 3, 2017.  It was similar to my episodes after stopping taking Celexa cold turkey.  This time it took almost three weeks vice three days.  Within two hours of taking a 20 mg tablet, I felt completely normal again.  It is scary to go through these episodes because I completely lose control for no reason other than the medication. 

 

I am going to stay at 20 mg for now.  I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms from the Valium again.  The symptoms are similar to the ones I experienced after stopping the Valium.  My therapist was surprised that I was able to stop taking Valium without assistance.  I am going to be posting on my Valium thread until I feel ready to start tapering my Celexa again.

 

Sincerely,

PW

[joy2730]

Hi PW

 

I was wondering what was happening with you.

 

It doesn't surprise me that you are back on 20 mg, this is something that keeps happening to me.

 

My GP says that once this pattern has been established, it may just keep happening.  That is a bleak thought. 

 

I suppose the next time you try you need to taper more slowly.

 

It is interesting that you felt better within a few hours,  I am like that too.  Some say that is the placebo effect, but I feel it is the drug effect only.

 

Some people also say if you keep withdrawing and then going back to 20 mg eventually you will not be able to get back to 20 mg working and you will be stuck with being ill all the time.  That scares me too.

 

I don't think it is ever a good idea to withdraw from 2 meds at once, it gets too confusing.

 

I found diazepam much easier to withdraw from than my old tricyclic AD and citalopram.  It is the ADs I have real trouble with.

 

I have hatched a plan for when I next try to reduce citalopram and it will involve a lower dose one day and the full dose the next, but this site does not recommend that sort of schedule.  It is something I used to get off diazepam and as I feel really stuck it is worth me trying, but I would not recommend it to anyone else.

 

Your update has really helped me to realise I am not the only one that almost instantly feels better on going back to 20 mg.

 

Isn't this awful

 

Joy

[PinballWizard]

Joy,

 

I thought I was clear of Valium withdrawals when I started my Celexa taper.  I am looking forward to the day when I can start tapering again.  I do not plan on tapering for a while.  I'm not sure how long that is.  I am going to continue tracking my symptoms daily and make an informed decision based on that.

 

Thank you for your support.  You continue to give me the insight I need to get through this journey.

 

Have a great day!

PW

[Flowers]

Hi Pinball

 

It's good to read your update although I am sorry things didn't work out yet with your taper off Celexa. I am still taking 20mgs a day too but seem to be slowly getting stable after a very rough year.  It is good that you felt so much better quickly after increasing your dosage.  It always takes ages for me to register any changes up or down.

 

Like you say it must have been too soon after stopping Valium and your CNS wasn't stable enough to handle another taper so soon.

 

I will look out for you on your Valium thread. I do hope the withdrawal symptoms are not too bad. All this takes time and patience doesn't it?

 

I wish you well.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

[PinballWizard]

Thank you, Flowers.  It is a slow process.  I will not give up.  Just take things slow.

 

Have a great day!

PW