SidTheButterfly: bumpy start - what to do next?

[SidTheButterfly]

Hi! Not sure if I can post here, but I found this site after searching for withdrawal effects after having multiple symptoms when the meds were supposed to be out of my system. I now realise my neurotransmitters are still rebalancing, and I've definitely experienced the windows and waves. I was on 20 mg Cilift (Citalopram) since Feb 2016, and sought out the help of my GP to wean off (because of weight gain and mostly having severe heart palpitations).

 

She weaned me off over a 2-week period (1 every 2nd day for a week, and 1 every 3rd day for a week). I stopped the meds entirely around mid May. I am however having multiple symptoms now still: very moody (fluctuating between unjustified rage and extreme depression), extreme anxiety, paranoia, lethargic yet I have insomnia, headaches, toothache and weird sensations of my eyes being sponges, itchiness, PMS is 100 times worse.

 

I find I get stuck in unproductive thought loops, and feel that I shouldn't be alive (although I wouldn't act on suicidal impulses, as I have a strong sense of them not being "me:). I'm now in the awkward position of not knowing what to do. I live in a 3rd world country, and I doubt I can find a doctor who would be able to offer any support. We have a good medical system but in some ways our info is outdated. Without seeking specific medical advice, is there a general protocol for what one should do in my situation?

 

I can't gauge what's better between going back onto the meds and weaning slower (I'll take any info back to my doctor), or just sitting it out? I am reading through different topics here, but is there a list of self-care items I can use? Thank you so much! 

Edited July 6, 2017 by KarenB
added white space

[KarenB]

Hello Sid - Welcome to SA,

 

This is the right place to post.  Sounds like you've done some reading too, which is good - understanding why things are happening can reduce a lot of anxiety about the whole process.  It seems you've discovered that doctors don't really know what they're doing when it comes to tapering.  (Almost all of us have this problem - it's not just in the third world!)  Alternating doses is a really good way to bring on withdrawal symptoms. 

 

Have I got it right that you were you on Citalopram from February 2016 until mid May 2017?  Please put your withdrawal history in your signature – all drugs/dates/dosages for the last year or two so we can see your situation easily whenever you post, and help you more accurately.  And especially the dates and amounts of the last doses you were on.  Thanks.

 

It's relatively close to your last dose, which means the odds for a successful reinstatement are pretty good.  We have a thread that discusses it here: reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/  If you decided to reinstate, it would be of an amount somewhere between your last dose and 0mg.  When we have more details in your signature, we'll be able to pin that down. 

 

Then, once you were stable again, you could taper off according to our 10% monthly guide.  This allows your brain time to adjust as you go, and lessens any withdrawal.  The troublesome thing with psychiatric drugs is that you can't just flush their effects out of your system.  They change the way your brain works, and that takes much longer to heal.  Suddenly stopping the drug puts your brain and Central Nervous System into shock.  It's like yanking a trellis out of a garden instead of gently untangling the plants and slowly removing the wood – it’s too much trauma for the plants/your brain.  (For the source of that simile, plus further discussion, see http://survivinganti...el-your-brain/)

 

Many people find Fish oil and Magnesium useful during withdrawal.

Non-Drug Techniques to cope with emotional symptoms.

 

Withdrawals can last for months or years, depending on the individual and how they either tapered or CT'd.  There is also the possibility that they will get worse before they get better.  I say this not to alarm you but to be sure you've got all the facts before you make a decision. 

 

Have a read of those and then you can come back to this thread to discuss things further.  This can be your journal to record your tapering and healing progress, and to ask questions.

 

Welcome to SA,

Karen

Edited July 6, 2017 by KarenB
added white space cause it keeps disappearing!

[SidTheButterfly]

Hi Karen, Thanks so much! I am struggling to add my history to my signature as I'm working from my phone. Will try to do so from a PC later. Here is what I added as my history:

 

I have been prescribed numerous antidepressants years ago, one at a time (15 years to 9 years ago) but stopped them all 9 years ago (around 2008/2009). Effexor, Prozac, Nuzac, Cipralex for about 4 years, even Lamictin for a couple of months). Never had much success or bad withdrawal symptoms, apart from some brain zaps and headaches. I went onto Citalopram during February 2016 after two deaths. I tried to stop during August, but I immediately went back on as I felt very depressed. I continued until 8 weeks ago when I tapered over 2 weeks under the supervision of my GP. I have numerous symptoms now, including rage, anxiety and depression (mood swings between these states), fuzzy eyesight at times, PMS that lasts for about a week and is 100 worse than I have experienced, constant tinnitus. Feeling crazy and desperate at times. 

 

Will read your links! 

 

Update: Have read your links. I am going to buy magnesium and omega 3 (vegan source) as soon as the shops open. I believe I am deficient in both as I have had issues over the years. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by SidTheButterfly
Just adding an update

[SidTheButterfly]

I think I'm going to sit tight and wait this out. I can rationalize my way out of the 80% of time I have symptoms. Somehow it's comforting to have the certainty of where I am now, rather than exchanging it for a new uncertainty. I'll definitely use meditation, exercise, supplements and good vegan nutrition, and try to take it easier on myself. Thanks for your help!

[KarenB]

Your 'reson to quit' in your sig does change things a bit, as that's quite a solid reason for not reinstating.  That non-drug techniques link gave you above is probably the place you need to be reading - tons of ideas in there. 

 

Let us know how things go,

Karen

[SidTheButterfly]

Hi Karen, in the last 24 hours I've felt more emotions and intensity than I've usually felt in a month. I think I'll have to try reinstatement and see what it does. I just feel too unstable too function. Thanks for checking up on this thread Appreciate your help.

[KarenB]

Do you think the citalopram caused the heart issues?  Of course, a smaller dose may not cause it, but you'll want to weigh this up carefully. 

 

I'll check with the other mods for an appropriate dose, in case you still think reinstating would be the way to go. 

[SidTheButterfly]

I think it did cause a sense of breathlessness and a feeling that my heart couldn't keep up at any level of exertion. It resolved within a couple days of not taking the meds twice. I don't really feel that I was in danger at a dose of 20mg though, but it was preventing me from exercising which I believe is necessary for my long-term wellbeing and moods. 

 

I just went to the GP now and saw the most arrogant doctor trained in the 1970s who made some extremely rude comments. Haha! She said I'm having a relapse because my serotonin levels are low, and if they were normal I'd be fine. I.e. it's me and not the meds' fault. I should apparently exercise common sense. (I thought of the plant and trellis analogy which makes perfect sense, whereas their "Disprin' approach is over simplistic). She also looked me up and down and told me I'm clearly not well  (I was anxious because she cut me off after I listed 2 symptoms). She ended up giving me a script and telling me to take the meds, because I need them, or read up on the Internet and do whatever I like, but maybe I should see a psychiatrist. It's shocking to me that these people are seen as professionals yet are reluctant to even question outdated knowledge. I mean mercury used to be seen as a treatment for many ailments, and we dont have perfect knowledge of medicine :/ She also said no medical research worth anything is ever available online. She got a bit peeved when she told me my MVP would never have needed meds and can't be helped by exercise, but I told her my cardiologist had said differently, and I had resolved my arrhythmia through lifestyle changes. She wrote down his name

 

I'm going to take an Epsom Salts bath now just to try wash off all that ego I've been in close contact with ???

 

So I'm sitting with a box of meds now. I have also picked up Epsom salts, B12, magnesium and omega 3. My gut feel is to reinstate at 10mg for a month, and then try to use the water dilution method for incremental decreases, but I'm very appreciative of guidance!

[SidTheButterfly]

Oh, the citalopram definitely didn't cause the underlying MVP but seemed to aggravate my heart symptoms.

 

MVP is a whole can of worms with the medical community too, as they'll mostly say it's symptomless and common but I found other people online with the same bundle of symptoms as I had, and the MVP seems to a marker. The main issue seems to be an underlying instability of the autonomous nervous system which results in multiple symptoms such as migraines, chemical instability, heart palpitations etc. I could tick off all the symptoms I'd experienced for years when I found the info online. 

 

I believe in functional medicine, and my personal experience is that traditional doctors look at symptoms in complete isolation whereas the body is, as per common sense, a complex system. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Sid.

 

As you have a box of citalopram handy, if the withdrawal symptoms get worse, you can consider reinstating at a very low dose, such as 1mg-5mg, by making a homemade liquid. See this topic for instructions Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

[SidTheButterfly]

Thanks so much, Altostrata! That makes sense. I'll go for 5mg if the symptoms get worse and then follow the 10% rule. All the advice from here has really helped.

 

Feeling much safer with guidance, thank you! 

[SidTheButterfly]

I have been taking the supplements and the 5mg of Citalopram yesterday and this morning, and for the first time in weeks the tinnitus has noticeably decreased tonight. Struggling with the intense panic. I know meditation and exercise will help but I can't quite get to doing that yet. I feel very disconnected from life.

[KarenB]

Has the intense panic come since the 5mg, or did you have that before? 

Great that the tinnitus has decreased - must be a huge relief. 

[SidTheButterfly]

Hi Karen. No, the panic started a little after I stopped taking the meds ... about a week or so, and then became more frequent and intense lately, before reinstatement. Never had panic/anxiety without a reason before.

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how you're doing.

[SidTheButterfly]

Hi Altostrata

 

I went to work today, and felt as if I was floating for most of the day. The anxiety flared up but I feel better knowing that I have a plan, and because I can come here if I struggle. I keep telling myself this will pass, and try focus on something else.

 

I feel the 5mg is already taking the edge off, but I'm dropping my expectations and taking it one day at a time. The tinnitus was largely absent and only started up this evening. The anxiety is back full force this evening, and I struggle to sleep and  I wake up often every night, but I've found that lying on an acupuncture mat before bed helps.

 

I realised that even though I'm struggling now, I don't regret taking this medication because it got me through a time I couldn't have faced any other way. That has given me an underlying sense of peace. I think I'd be struggling more if I hadn't needed to be medicated.

 

Thank you for checking on me. I was left feeling humiliated after talking to the doctor on Saturday so this website has helped me more than I can say. 

[Altostrata]

It will take up to a week for the 5mg to fully register. Right now, it's wearing off in the evening. If it makes you dopey during the day, you may wish to take it at night. Be patient.

[SidTheButterfly]

Thank you, that makes sense! I will. It's much easier to go with the flow. 

[SidTheButterfly]

The 5mg Cilift and supplements are definitely working to take the edge off. Not all smooth sailing, but I feel better sometimes. 

 

Thank you.

[KarenB]

That's encouraging for you Sid.  Keep going, keep things steady.

[SidTheButterfly]

I am definitely feeling better on the 5mg dose for the past week. I am feeling much more stable, although not perfect. It has put me in a position to implement some helpful tools, like exercise and meditation, and my nutrition has been excellent. I'm also taking the supplements. Definite improvement! Thank you. 

[SidTheButterfly]

Just 50% of the tinnitus remaining now. I may look at starting to cut from the end of August.

[SidTheButterfly]

I stayed on a quarter dose of the meds daily for a while, and then cut them cold turkey from beginning of August. Totally different experience now ... No adverse symptoms this time. Tinnitus is also manageable. I have paid more attention to coping mechanisms and aids, and being prepared for the worst case scenario helped. Good luck everyone! 

[SidTheButterfly]

And then .... 

 

After severe stress, what appeared to be severe depression (with suicidal thoughts) re-emerged (I now think it was withdrawal "uncovered" by severe stress) so I went back onto the same meds from March to August. They stopped working and I couldn't eat from the side effects and felt depressed still. I weaned and used supportive methods as I had before (but too quickly for this site's protocol- but my results weaning have been a mixed bag - had no problem the last time UNTIL stress made me realise my healing was not complete), but had more personal stress shortly after, which once again seemed to trigger depression (but it feels different and I think this is from withdrawal). 

 

Now, I am still struggling. I have a lot of new symptoms, mostly emotional. I think about the past a lot and long for certain places and times etc., in a painful way that I cannot explain. I feel that the present is completely empty. I am 40 and in good health but live alone - I feel terror about my belongings - I feel that I need to get rid of them in case I die unexpectedly. My dogs are 12 and I fear losing them constantly. I took them for routine procedures and they are well, but I often can't sleep when I think about it. Living alone, I find my routines are completely destroyed- I eat and sleep more randomly and am untidy (I experience emotional pain standing still, thinking nothing and cleaning and tidying up - it is very odd). (I do the basics but things are not put away so I can't low people into my house). I don't feel my days have a plan (beyond working full time). Working I can actually manage - sometimes it is more difficult to.find the energy/motivatio, but at most times it gives me a distraction. I'll burst into tears at the end of each day, after wearing a mask. 

 

The world has taken on a gloomy tinge that I cannot explain. I have this underlying gloom and on top of it various neuro emotions.

 

I used to know life is overall good, despite death and struggle, but I am struggling to connect with that. 

 

Therapy has never worked for me, and I can't afford it anyhow on my current health plan.

 

My only physical symptoms are intense tinnitus, nightmares and waking up in terror and tears every morning (I read about that here - cortisol spike). 

 

I have never felt this way before, although I have had depression from childhood. 

 

I feel small windows of relief, but please just need someone to check in on me because I have tried talking to people in my life and they don't have any understanding. I need fo feel understood and just "seen".

[Altostrata]

Hello, Sid.

 

It sounds like you're lonely. You need to build a social network. Are there dog owners nearby? Perhaps you can make friends with them. Or maybe you can volunteer with a dog rescue organization or other dog-related group.

 

We have Meetup here, so people can meet others with similar interests and hobbies.

 

When did the tinnitus become so intense? Was it when you went on and off drugs this last time?

 

If you have trouble sleeping, you might try soft music, see Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

[SidTheButterfly]

Thanks, Altostrata. 

 

I thought I was lonely but it is difficult to have people relate to me if I'm not happy, so interaction currently makes it worse. I do have a few friends but I keep postponing plans. People hate talking about depression and don't know what to say. The things they do say are often detrimental because it's foreign to them.

 

I am a member of a few Meetup groups here too, so I will join some activities as I feel I can. I have a book club coffee scheduled for later today.

 

I have a suspicion that I need to exercise and eat healthier to shift my mood, as a first step. It's just so hard to do when you feel weighted down 😕

 

I think the tinnitus worsened a bit when I had stressors (work change, which then improved a lot, and a relationship breakup). I can remember having an episode of it years ago purely from stress. I see the chemical effects of meds and withdrawal as another stressor. I also think I notice it more when I am stressed because I tend to become introspective. 

 

That's a great idea, thanks - I'll try music and some sleep meditations from YouTube. 

 

Thank you for replying! I just needed someone to know what I am going through.

[Carmie]

Hi Sid, 

 

How are you doing?💚