steve856: Side-effects months after quitting?

[steve856]

Hi, my name is Steve, just signed up here. I started for the 2nd time in my life an AD (Effexor 75mg), from mid-2015 to Feb-2017 for GAD. I slowly weened off of it for several months starting in Sept-2016. I think I successfully got off it but I'm still unsure and thats why I am seeking some opinions/answers here.

My main problem is feeling quit lightheaded non-stop. It is a very annoying and awful feeling (like i didnt sleep enough or something)? I cant explain it but when i wake up in the mornings it isn't much better. I feel like it might be the drugs took a tole on my brain (cuz I'm thinking, these are hardcore chemicals and such). I don't know how to fix this?? So its been about 5 months since i stopped, is this common? Could it be still some long-lasting withdrawal or permanent brain damage? or something else? I always had trouble with sleep quality my whole life generally, and I still usually go to bed late like 3am or even later (i know its bad and mostly my fault). Could it be that? I wake up usually around 11am or even later sometimes. I feel like my brain lacks the usual stimulation it had before the meds, its a weird feeling. Its like im not present.

 

Thank you for your input! I would really like some feedback from people who have gone through this stuff already.

[scallywag]

steve586 -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

Congratulations on tapering off Effexor!  Although a 5 month taper sounds like a long one, it was probably too rapid for your CNS (central nervous system). 

 

Doctors who prescribe these medications rarely appreciate how difficult the drugs are to discontinue and therefore suggest "taper" plans that are almost guaranteed to cause suffering.  To minimize the risk of withdrawal symptoms, we suggest that people taper by decreasing to 90% of previous dose once per month, e.g. 75 to 67.5, 67.5 to 60.8, 60.8 to 54.7, etc.  As you can see this is much, much slower than a 5-month taper. For more about our plan, please read:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?.

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

The reason we suggest going slowly is that our brains and CNSs (central nervous systems) adapt to the drug as soon as we start to take it -- shutting down neurotransmitter (e.g. serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine) receptors.  This happens over several weeks until the drug and our CNS reach a "happy" equilibrium.  Then when we discontinue too fast, the CNS has to scramble -- no drug, no equilibrium, no happy. The idea of a slow taper is to sneak the drug away slowly enough that the CNS has time to make the necessary changes to keep up with the dose change.  You'll find other descriptions of this process at these links:

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

The lightheadedness and sleep issues are probably withdrawal symptoms. It can take a while for the CNS to adjust to the absence of a medication. Please look at the symptoms listed on these pages:

What is withdrawal syndrome.

Important topics about symptoms including sleep problems.

 

The downloads in the first post of this topic are a list of many but not all symptoms experienced in withdrawal:

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

Symptoms patterns:  You may be experiencing these symptoms for a while to come. Nobody can give you a good answer about how long you'll have them. We can only tell you that they will almost certainly disappear at some point.  Symptoms can come and go; please read

The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization.

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by scallywag

[PoetJester]

Hi Steve

 

I quit Zoloft and zyprexa back in early 2014.  Originally, I had the lightheadedness (it felt like I had the flu) where every time I turned my head to look at something, it took a second or two for my vision to catch up.  It went away after about 2 months for me, but I also had insomnia and poor sleep quality which has stayed with me these 3+ years and has basically ruined my health.  I also have the "not with it"  feeling upon waking.  it's frequently referred to as "dead head" where it feels like nothing is going on inside.   I think it may have something to do with poor sleep, but since your sleep sounds ok, I don't really know.  I still have it and it's worse after 3 years.  I have had a few days in wd where I wake with some energy and alertness , but for the most part I stumble out of bed totally out of it and barely coherent. It can carry on into the day, as well, where I just find myself staring off into space for extended periods of time, not really sure what I am thinking about.  it's actually a pretty common side effect of wd if you go around reading the posts of others on this site.

 

Poetjester (Derek)

[steve856]

2 hours ago, PoetJester said:

Hi Steve

 

I quit Zoloft and zyprexa back in early 2014.  Originally, I had the lightheadedness (it felt like I had the flu) where every time I turned my head to look at something, it took a second or two for my vision to catch up.  It went away after about 2 months for me, but I also had insomnia and poor sleep quality which has stayed with me these 3+ years and has basically ruined my health.  I also have the "not with it"  feeling upon waking.  it's frequently referred to as "dead head" where it feels like nothing is going on inside.   I think it may have something to do with poor sleep, but since your sleep sounds ok, I don't really know.  I still have it and it's worse after 3 years.  I have had a few days in wd where I wake with some energy and alertness , but for the most part I stumble out of bed totally out of it and barely coherent. It can carry on into the day, as well, where I just find myself staring off into space for extended periods of time, not really sure what I am thinking about.  it's actually a pretty common side effect of wd if you go around reading the posts of others on this site.

 

Poetjester (Derek)

 

Thanks for ur feedback Derek and scallywag, u speak my language! This is exactly the way I feel presently. And its not 100% of the time, but like maybe 80-90%, just enough to negatively impact on my daily activities and performance. I sometimes feel like i will faint or something (especially if i walk into a store or something). I pray its more to do with sleep quality and I just need to improve that area. But wow 3 years?? I dont wanna look forward to that.. and who knows how much longer it can go? When u hear that it seems like its permanent damage or something? Who knows? The doctors surely wont tell u anything of the sort and often they laugh at me like "com'on man chill ur fine" attitude, its sickening really. I dont want to freak out but this sux. Sometimes i wish i never started the meds in the first place.. i dunno.

But i also tell my family i feel like im "brain dead" or my head feels empty, i lack the stimulation i normally had. it wasnt any better while on the drugs too.
Btw, i felt embarrassed to say but I couldnt handle the full minimum dosage of 75mg of Effexor when i started and after a month i went to 37.5mg and stuck with that till i started tapering off in Sept '16. Then i started chipping away at the pill as small as i can (its already a small pill, and making these calculations is very hard and non-accurate). But i chipped away about 1/8 of it and stuck with that dose for about 3-4 weeks till i chipped away another 1/8. eventually in the last months i was taking about 1/16th or 1/32 of the 37.5mg pill (tiny crumbs). and then just stopped altogether. Ive been kinda ok since then with similar feelings as now but not always. I dont know if this is even the post-WD symptoms or my previous anxiety symptoms. i suffered mostly from weird psychosomatic sensations/pains like stiffened muscles or nerves (in my head or neck or other parts of my body) that would otherwise reduce my oxygen intake to the brain and make me feel lightheaded, its kinda eff-ed up, almost masochistic i dont know, i cant understand myself yet why i do this to myself... Ive seen therapists (many) over the years but to no avail. I try to focus mostly on my work and ignore these sensations at best, and works for the most part. but when Im alone in my bed its most prevalent.

 

btw they gave me several diagnoses: main one: F60.3 - Borderline Pers. Disor., main symptom is GAD ( F41.1) and Psychosomatic disor. (F45).

http://icd10be.health.belgium.be/default.php#!tabular/2017/F45/0

i only know wut i feel, and anxiety is wut i felt most of my life since a kid. but i never even heard of BPD till 2 yrs ago..

[PoetJester]

Hey Steve

 

yeah, the brain dead thing can get pretty bad after a while.  sometimes it feels like my frontal lobe has been removed.  I mean, it actually feels a part of my brain is missing and my sleep is of such poor quality (shallow, fragmented, depressed) that when I awake it feels like I might have run head first into a wall the night before to put myself to sleep.  It makes havoc with your cognitive abilities.  I used to forget what I would be talking about in conversations with others or burn stuff on the stove or lose stuff constantly, basically your short term memory goes away.  I even had one day where I didn't recognize my own address on a piece of paper and I have been living at the same place for 10 years.  I haven't been able to read much except short articles on the internet these 3 years and reading used to be one of my favorite hobbies.  same with tv.  I can hardly focus or pay attention for large chunks of time anymore.  it sucks.  basically all I do now is computer searches for supplements that might help or facebook or post on this site.

 

you mentioned a stiff neck and that's a pretty common complaint among those in wd.  I was ok in that respect until about a month ago, when I slept on the couch for a few hours one night and woke with a stiff neck.  ever since it's been giving me problems and won't heal at all.  I used to get stiff necks now and then but after a few days at most they would go away.  this one is just staying with me. 

 

I don't know how to really explain why these wd's last so long.  some people get better after a couple years, and some of us seem to just decline mostly. It seems to depend on whether or not sleep normalizes again.   Hopefully, you will see some improvement soon with the lightheadedness.  I used to think I was going to pass out and fall over the first couple months of wd.  now it's just a struggle every day to find a way to sleep well again.

 

Derek

 

 

[PoetJester]

Hey Steve

 

sorry to hear your sleep is getting worse.  yeah, the total insomnia thing happens a lot in wd (read UncomfortablyNumb's posts and thread.  he is dealing with the I hour of sleep thing currently).  3 1/2 years later I have started taking 15 mg of remeron for sleep.  I hate taking it, but I do get around 7 hours of sleep.  it's sort of a bad solution, but I am just trying to make the best of an awful situation.   I have some fatigue, decreased libido and dizziness from it, but before that I was getting 2-3 hours a night and having just the worst nightmares.  they are difficult to describe.  hellish and totally demented.  I wasn't able to do anything because of the poor sleep quality and the bad sleep was causing my digestion to fail.   bloating, constipation, and even a horrible problem where my breath smelt like poop.  some people have had some success reinstating.  it seems to take a few weeks to a couple months for things to change. you could read ArticJessy's thread.  it took her a few months being back on the pills before she started feeling better.   a lot of people do recover without going back on anything, by just riding out the sleeplessness until their bodies sleep clock resets.  I might not be the best example of what to do in wd.  I have horrible bags under my eyes now from all the sleep deprivation.  I try to avoid looking in the mirror now or else I start to cry I look so disfigured. 

 

derek