Tips for tapering off Z drugs for sleep (Ambien, Lunesta, etc.)

[Nikki]

Too funny Barbara

[rapunzel2]

I'm asking advice for somebody else. Since I'm talking a lot about withdrawing, people are coming to me to ask for advice. I didn't find information about how to taper sleeping pills from the forum - it this information is here, could somebody refer me to it?

 

The situation with her is such - she is clean from other drugs and does not have depression or anxiety. She has had trouble with sleeping though, and is now addicted to Lunesta, which also isn't helping very much, because she says that she still wakes up in the middle of the night and then the sleep doesn't come. 

 

Question is, how to taper off Lunesta and what natural products to suggest to her? melatonin? inositol? Niacin? GABA? she already takes small amount of tryptophan + mg + B6. 

 

thanks for the help!

[Petunia]

We don't have a topic specifically for tapering off Lunesta/Zopiclone or other z drugs but they work in a similar way to benzos, so a benzo tapering protocol can be used. See the topics pinned at the top of our benzo forum:

Members-only benzo tapering discussion

Vitamin B6 can sometimes be activating and cause sleep disruption, your friend might want to try leaving that off for a few days and see if that helps with the night time waking.

 

See :

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

for natural methods of improving sleep, you need to scroll down to the sleep section.

   

[rapunzel2]

thank you, Petu, I will look into those!

 

one more question. since the drugs half life is only 6 hours, is it possible that she is suffering also from interdose withdrawal? where can I read more about this? are there any other sleeping pills with longer half life, maybe it would be wise to switch to one that has longer half life before starting tapering?

[TexCB]

I've been an insomniac most of my adult life.  I'm 42.  I've been taking Ambien for 3 years now.  I'm prescribed 30 10mg pills every 30 days.  I like to take 12.5 mg for optimal effect and to create a 24 days on and a 6 day off cycle.  I basically cut up some pills into qtrs. and take 1 and 1/4 pill each night.  This way I never get physically addicted.  I have trouble sleeping the 6 days I'm off so I have to use Tylenol PM and Melatonin in combination on those days (which is what I did for years before I got on Ambien).  I don't sleep as well but I manage it.  I'm not a doctor, but this is a safe way "for me" to get good quality sleep for a good 24 days and an ok sleep for 6 days.  I think without the 6 day break, Ambien would lose it's effect on me.  I don't experience any physical withdrawal this way.  The first night off is more of a mental thing, but I start early with the Melatonin (6pm 10mg) and then at 8pm a Tylenol PM.  I'll get to sleep by 12pm and get up a 5am.  It gets a little better as that week goes on.  With Ambien, I can dose at 9pm on an empty stomach and will be asleep by 10pm and will sleep till 5:30 am.

[Altostrata]

Thank you for that information. I do not think your strategy eliminates the possibility you may become physiologically dependent on the drug.

 

That you have difficulty sleeping for the 6 days when you skip it indicates you may be physiologically dependent on Ambien and experiencing withdrawal symptoms, which are reversed when you start up the drug again. ("Addiction" implies a psychological dependency -- a craving for the drug -- as well as a physiological dependency. In your belief you need it to sleep, you may also be psychologically dependent.)

 

Also, from what we see here, going on and off neuroactive drugs for a long time tends to sensitize the nervous system, causing odd reactions. Sometimes the drug stops "working" (tolerance), sometimes tolerance is accompanied by withdrawal symptoms, sometimes it goes paradoxical (causes alerting rather than sleep).

 

I am glad taking Ambien has not had an ill effect on you so far (other than physiological dependence). I caution you not to be complacent in taking it long-term, and to gradually taper off rather than attempting to manage it by skipping doses.

[Betsy]

I have a friend who wants to taper off 12.5 mg of Ambien CR. But she says they only come in solid pill from where she lives. She wants to use the scale and shave off something like .001 grams or so per day. Maybe she should make this # higher?

Betsy

[Altostrata]

Betsy, I moved your post here. Please read the first post in this topic. There's also good information in the other posts.

[csm2014]

I have a friend who wants to taper off 12.5 mg of Ambien CR. But she says they only come in solid pill from where she lives. She wants to use the scale and shave off something like .001 grams or so per day. Maybe she should make this # higher?

Betsy

 .001g = 1mg which is 8.00% of the starting dose to taper from. Although I don't have experience with tapering Ambien, in my opinion from all that I've been educated and read on this forum, that is too much of a cut to start with - and certainly NOT to cut that much daily! I would start at no more than 5.00% (.625mg) and hold for at least 7-10 days before re-evaluating the next cut. I would highly recommend using the scale like the one I posted upthread, if possible. Also, I don't know how to deal with tapering a slow release med; if you break it up of pulverize it, then it will deactivate the slow release components and make the taper that much more problematic I would think. Maybe better to C/O gradually to immediate release Ambien and get acclimated on that first before commencing the taper.

[Altostrata]

Thanks, csm.

 

Please note a 12.5mg Ambien tablet most likely weighs a lot more than 12.5mg, which refers to the amount of active ingredient in the tablet, not its weight.

 

To taper, you'd weigh a whole tablet and take a percentage relative to how you want to taper. If you wish to taper by 10% and the tablet weighs 31mg, you would remove 10%, or 3.1mg of the tablet, leaving 27.9mg. (Alternatively, you could calculate 90% of 31mg to get the amount you want to take: 27.9mg.)

[csm2014]

Thanks, csm.

 

Please note a 12.5mg Ambien tablet most likely weighs a lot more than 12.5mg, which refers to the amount of active ingredient in the tablet, not its weight.

 

To taper, you'd weigh a whole tablet and take a percentage relative to how you want to taper. If you wish to taper by 10% and the tablet weighs 31mg, you would remove 10%, or 3.1mg of the tablet, leaving 27.9mg. (Alternatively, you could calculate 90% of 31mg to get the amount you want to take: 27.9mg.)

Oops, if anyone should know how to calculate this, I should, as I spent weeks creating a spreadsheet calculator devising all this . 

[Altostrata]

[freespirit123]

Any suggestions on tapering from 3mg of Lunesta? Been on since Sept, every night. Most talks are about Ambien so would love to hear about Lunesta

 

Heard you can't cut pills in half. So they come on 1mg 2mg and 3mg

 

Was thinking I'd need to add in something natural to help with the sleep. Anyone use Calm Forte by Hylands?

[Altostrata]

Hi, freespirit. Please read this topic from the beginning. Go to the Symptoms forum and use search to find discussions of Calms Forte.

[freespirit123]

I've been taking Lunesta 3mg every night for about 5 months! I know it's not suppose to be taken every night but my insomnia started back in Aug and I was thrown into Lubesta, Seroquel and Celexa

 

Anyways now I'm off of Sero., I'm waking up after like an hour or two with the Lunesta.

 

Most posts are about Ambien but I'd like to chat with the ones you tapered successfully off of Lunesta.

 

The pills come in 1,2,3mg. I heard you can't cut it up either

[Skyler]

Hello FS.  Please open a thread in the benzo subforum to talk about this.  As you may know, Lunesta is referred to as a Z-drug and they are close cousins of the benzos.

[rapunzel2]

Is zopiclone water soluble? where could I find information about it?

[scallywag]

A google search yielded this information about zopiclone's solubility:

Quote

From my understanding, zopiclone is not water soluble.
But is it soluble to other substances like milk or alcohol (vodka especially i'm guessing, considering it's almost pure alcohol) etc.

 

Try dissolving half a tablet or capsule in water and the other half in milk. Please let us know what you discover.

 

If you're wanting to switch to liquid formulation, start by taking part of your dose as liquid and increasing that proportion every 2 weeks rather than switching from solid (tablet or capsule) to liquid overnight. For more detail, please read the first post of this topic.

[Harriet8]

Hi Everyone,

 

Wondering if anybody could give any opinions on my dilemma:

 

I have been holding on 0.58mg Zopliclone for 17months (because a silly doctor suggested I pause, and then sent me off on a wild goose chase), and then sadly my living situation has been constantly stressful and unstable, and I am very unwell due to failed withdrawals, basically bed/sofabound and still on 3 other drugs (Citalopram 40mg, Diazepam 8mg, Pregabalin 100mg).

 

I have reached the point where I want to complete the taper, especially as I want to begin to reduce the Pregabalin I take and it feels ridiculous to keep ordering 0.58mg of Zopliclone and embark on a taper from Pregabalin.

 

I am able to sleep, thankfully, although getting off to sleep is difficult.  I am not so concerned about insomnia, although maybe I should be (even at this dose?).  I am more worried about any other effects because my nervous system is so fragile.

 

The guidance at the top suggests 25% reductions per week.  That would be awesome.  But I fear that could be too big a cut, too regularly.  I find myself considering so many options: ranging from 10% per month, to 25% per week.  And, given that I am on 0.58mg as my (now) starting point, I don't know how concerned/careful I should be.

 

Does anybody feel in a position to guide me at all?  I get my drugs compounded and so I plan to order a batch of a good number of reductions.  

 

Final question, what would the jumping off point be?

 

Thank you all.

[ChessieCat]

@Harriet8

 

It is better to ask these questions in your introduction topic, which keeps your history in one place.  Staff regularly check new posts in the Introduction forum, but posts elsewhere may not get seen.

 

harriet8-think-i-have-withdrawal-syndrome-seeking-connection-hope-and-support-for-action-i-can-take-to-heal