Ladybug's Pax-hell Journey

[grandmaD]

Hi Ladybug, just wondering if you are starting to stabilise.  You are probably busy getting your journal and results things all organized!  beware, because just something like that can cause extra stress and anxiety.  I have had to take a leaf out of my own book and go back and check my results for breathlessness and different painkillers, etc, but in doing so, it causes further anxiety, so I hate having to do that sort of thing, but it is useful!

 

I wanted to ask you if in all your 10 years or so on forums if you have seen breathlessness as a withdrawal symptom?  I posted on this forum and got just 1 reply.  I have assumed all along it was withdrawal because it came pretty much right away when I tried cutting back.  I am surprised there are not more people with it.

 

Has anyone heard from Songbird?  I'm getting really worried about her! God bless x

[brassmonkey]

Hi GrandmaD-- I've seen it enough to have noticed that people mention it.  I believe that chantingjo use to talk about it among others.  I think that because it is so easily attributed to other things, allergies, colds etc it gets overlooked.

[ladybug]

Hi, Gran! No, I haven't stabilized yet. Wondering if this is just my new "WDnormal" and if I should drop anyway.

 

To answer your question, I've never been certain of what you mean exactly when you describe breathlessness. Is it a feeling like being unable to catch your breath? If so, that is a common symptom of anxiety so I imagine it must be a common symptom of WD. A new symptom I've had a couple of times in the past weeks is "air hunger." It usually happens after a night out and I'm feeling overstimulated, but tired. I lie down trying to go to sleep but feel I am not getting enough oxygen and have a frequent urge to yawn to get more. I've found it gets better if I can distract myself or concentrate on breathing in and out slowly.  I heard about air hunger before I ever experienced it myself, because it is also a symptom of anxiety. I remember years ago watching YouTube videos of a girl who struggled with this and so she yawned frequently, but of course it was much worse when she was anxious and it would get so bad that she would start to hyperventilate from yawning so much. Seems to me like the your symptom and mine are related and I would venture to say it's definitely WD.

[grandmaD]

What symptoms are you having now?  Which one/s are you looking for stabilising with?

 

Breathlessness is when I cannot take a deep breathe and it does feel like you describe 'air hunger" like I am not getting enough.  I find myself yawning a lot to try and get the air and there are times I cannot yawn which is frustrating.  I have found that if I am sitting I put my whole weight onto my arms/hands and lift my bottom off the chair, that I can breathe better.

 

This week, after dropping, has seen some improvement in that area, which I find surprising.   When the breathlessness improves I notice I still have a tight chest and while it is not real easy to breathe, it is a lot better.  I also find this frustrating, wondering if the tightness (around my middle mostly) is physical (from the gall  surgery) or anxiety.  I guess it wouldn't surprise me if it is anxiety.  Today it got so bad I could hardly breathe, so hubby took over cooking lunch and I lied down and did my relaxation/breathing exercises and I improved enough to get up and have lunch. 

 

I am thinking I might have to agree with you and put it down to w/d.  I had a shocker of a night again with insomnia which was a result of high anxiety which probably contributed to today's episode.  I put that down to having peppermint and chamomile tea before bed because I read they are both calming and soothing to the stomach - but now I have read they are both stimulants!  How can something be calming AND a stimulant????  I feel like a dog chasing its own tail.

[ladybug]

Is chamomile tea really a stimulant? I would think it's the opposite since it's always suggested for insomnia, etc. I know I find it calming, but I'm scared to even drink herbal teas at this point! I google too much and then wonder if I'm having a reaction to it. For instance I really got into Rooibos tea for a bit and then I googled it and found that it could be bad for your liver/kidneys (forgot which one) and that it gave some people anxiety so I stopped. I did buy some decaffeinated green tea so will see how that goes lol.

 

I went ahead and dropped. It had been 3.5 months already and I didn't feel like waiting any longer would give me any more improvements. I really feel like my symptoms are related more to my cycle/hormones. I guess I felt stable enough so we'll see if I regret it. If I was like others and got consistently better the longer I held I would try and hold some more, but that's never been my experience. It's always a constant up and down, up and down. Fingers crossed we both have a good drop!

[AmyK]

Hey, under 5 mg!

[brassmonkey]

Congratulations on breaking under 5mg Ladybug.  Hopefully this is the big break and things will really start improving.

 

((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

[LexAnger]

Prayer for your smooth breakthrough!

[ladybug]

Thank you everyone! I am very excited to be under 5mg, but also terrified. Just trying to take it day by day and not get overwhelmed with the "what if's"

 

Today was a pretty bad day, but had nothing to do with my drop. Still just my awful hormones. Got into an argument with a friend and jumped out of the car and walked home. Then the SI was pretty bad, but I managed to talk myself down. I will not allow this drug to defeat me!  I hate feeling out of control and I wonder if there will ever be a point when my hormones balance themselves out naturally. Other than that meltdown I'm ok. Sleep good, appetite good, anxiety not bad. Thankful for everyone here who "gets it."  ((HUGS))

[AmyK]

I get it. You are doing so well. Be kind towards yourself. Everything will be fine. Hugs!

[ladybug]

Thank you, Amy! ((HUGS))

[Jlynn]

Hope today is better! You are doing so great!

[ladybug]

Thank you, Jlynn! Yes, the hormonal rage has thankfully settled down.

 

I don't know if anyone remembers me debating earlier in the thread whether I should go to an out of town wedding. I decided not to go because I've been traumatized by things that happened on other out of town trips due to WD/Paxil. Well it turns out there were some cancellations so she said I could still go and I said I would. I'm TERRIFIED as I haven't been out out of town for an overnight trip in almost a decade. I'm just thinking of all the things that can go wrong, especially since my post period time is usually the worst coupled with the fact that I just took a hugely meaningful and scary drop. At the same time I know that I've been doing this so long and have put so much of my life on "pause" because of it. I would always tell myself "it's ok, you can do it when you feel better/are off Paxil." But the time it took to get there kept getting longer and longer and I've lost so many experiences in the meantime. So I realized if I don't push myself every so often then I'm going to miss so much more than I have already, and am going to even more regrets than I do now. So I'm going to feel the fear and do it anyway. Wish me luck!

[Rachelina]

Good luck Ladybug!! I'm so glad you decided to go. About two years ago I had a similar decision to make about an overnight trip. It had also been nearly a decade since I'd been anywhere overnight. And it turned out OK, enough so that I have made several more overnight trips, from two to five nights, and it got easier every time.

 

I definitely hear you about not being able to postpone life forever, and needing to push yourself sometimes. I remember in the past you've decided to do things you were really anxious about, and you always ended up glad you did it, right? The anticipatory anxiety is always the worst part. You'll do great! Let us know how it goes! 

[brassmonkey]

You're going to be fine Ladybug, and will have a great time. Just remember not champagne or wine. I know, hard at a wedding but it's gotta be done.  Tell us all about it when you get back.

 

(((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

[ladybug]

Good luck Ladybug!! I'm so glad you decided to go. About two years ago I had a similar decision to make about an overnight trip. It had also been nearly a decade since I'd been anywhere overnight. And it turned out OK, enough so that I have made several more overnight trips, from two to five nights, and it got easier every time.

 

I definitely hear you about not being able to postpone life forever, and needing to push yourself sometimes. I remember in the past you've decided to do things you were really anxious about, and you always ended up glad you did it, right? The anticipatory anxiety is always the worst part. You'll do great! Let us know how it goes! 

 

Oh Rach, thank you! This is exactly what I needed to hear since I know we both similar fears with being away from our "safe zone." ((HUGS))

[ladybug]

You're going to be fine Ladybug, and will have a great time. Just remember not champagne or wine. I know, hard at a wedding but it's gotta be done.  Tell us all about it when you get back.

 

(((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

 

Oh believe me, I definitely won't be doing any experimenting this time. I think I learned my lesson from the last time I tried a bit of alcohol. Not worth it. Thanks, Brass. ((HUGS))

[AmyK]

Så good of you to challenge your fear, JMarie! You will grow from doing this. You will be fine. You might even have fun, you know! ;-)

Best of luck!

Hugs!!

[AmyK]

How is it going, JMarie? Hugs!

[ladybug]

Hi Amy.

 

I am doing alright. Unfortunately my anticipatory insomnia reared its ugly head the night before I was supposed to leave for the wedding and I got zero sleep. Coupled with the fact that I barely got any sleep the night before because of the same thing and I decided I couldn't do it. Of course it sent me into a depression because this is the one symptom that hasn't gotten better in 6 years. It's why I was so happy to get a job I could do from home, but the days I did have to go into the office I usually got 0-3 hours sleep. It just ruins so many things. It was probably for the best as I didn't feel well the whole weekend and I got hit with post period awfulness and the drop at the same time. Bad week but of course with ovulation the doomcloud lifted and I'm doing a lot better mentally...until the next time.

 

Almost 3 weeks on the new dose and so far so good. Hope you are doing well! ((HUGS))

[Christian]

Ladybug I'm so sorry! Do you ever have nights where you get a full nights sleep or is it most nights are bad? I noticed some people with insomnia get like 8 hours one night the one night with 4 then another with zero. Then there are others who don't sleep more than 1-2 a night.

[AmyK]

I am sorry you couldn't go, JMarie. But more important is listening to your body. I hope you will have some good long sleep really soon. Many hugs!

[grandmaD]

Amy is right, you were kind to yourself - I'm sure there will be plenty more weddings and do's in the future you will be able to attend.

 

So glad to hear that after 3 weeks you are doing okay, this is fantastic and also my experience after a long hold.  I think I did 3 tapers after my 6 month hold that were pretty good before they started getting worse again, so I am hoping this will be the same for you.

 

That anxiety/insomnia thing is a pain in the butt!  I get it also every time we have to go to the big, smoke (which is a regular thing, say monthly) and also that night.  Anything out of my usual routine can cause it, even if I feel relaxed when I go to bed and don't think I'm anxious.  Hubby has told me to start talking to my body telling it not to be afraid, that I am safe, and so on, so I do try to remember to that but not sure if it helps, but it can't hurt to do it.

[ladybug]

Ladybug I'm so sorry! Do you ever have nights where you get a full nights sleep or is it most nights are bad? I noticed some people with insomnia get like 8 hours one night the one night with 4 then another with zero. Then there are others who don't sleep more than 1-2 a night.

No, this is anticipatory insomnia where I am unable to sleep in anticipation of the next day. Most of the time I sleep ok, although I do wake up a lot. Sometimes (like last night) I have trouble getting back to sleep after waking up. So I fall asleep for a few hours, am up for a couple of hours, repeat. Like everything else my sleep is also affected by my hormonal rollercoaster.

 

Amy is right, you were kind to yourself - I'm sure there will be plenty more weddings and do's in the future you will be able to attend.

 

So glad to hear that after 3 weeks you are doing okay, this is fantastic and also my experience after a long hold.  I think I did 3 tapers after my 6 month hold that were pretty good before they started getting worse again, so I am hoping this will be the same for you.

 

That anxiety/insomnia thing is a pain in the butt!  I get it also every time we have to go to the big, smoke (which is a regular thing, say monthly) and also that night.  Anything out of my usual routine can cause it, even if I feel relaxed when I go to bed and don't think I'm anxious.  Hubby has told me to start talking to my body telling it not to be afraid, that I am safe, and so on, so I do try to remember to that but not sure if it helps, but it can't hurt to do it.

 

Well yes that seems to have been my life for the past several years, always waiting to feel better "in the future." Hasn't happened yet.

 

The strange thing about the anticipatory insomnia is that I'm hardly ever actually anxious about the next day! It's just the mere fact that I know I need to sleep that prevents me from sleeping. I can be as calm as can be but just knowing that I have to get up to do something is enough. On nights like these I tell myself as long as I get 4 hours I'm ok but my brain won't allow me even that. I've tried everything besides a sleeping pill which would wouldn't be worth it anyway because I would end up feeling even worse the next day than if I hadn't slept.

 

 

Well whatever brief window I had was closed shut and I'm back in the hormonal storm. I understand that your hormones can be thrown off by WD but this is just ridiculous. Any time I bring up my concerns to my GP's they chalk it up to depression/anxiety due to my medical history. The one time I pressed them for bloodwork to test my hormones everything came within range. Their only solution is for me to go on birth control and when I tell them I can't tolerate it (the one time I tried it it caused my biggest crash) they shrug their shoulders. This is no way to live, but all I can do is try and get through each day and hope it gets better somewhere along the way. Same thing I've been doing for years on end.

[AmyK]

Hi again! I had to look "anticipatory" up, and now I see what you mean. I had that too, years ago. It was almost always connected to work, to be able to achieve.

Have you tried mindfulness body scan? I bet you have. But it helped me a lot. Also a bed of nails (right word?) is very relaxing. But I must say what helped me most coming out of a vicious circle was a tiny tiny piece of sleeping pill. Just knowing I have the pills in my bathroom helps me sleep. I dont take them often, maybe twice a month. And then just 1/4 or tinier, if I dont sleep before 1 am. I have done this for years and I dont feel bad from it or about it.

But I have the fully respect if that's not for you. (I know it's not really recommended to take sleeping pills.)

Are you able to do any exercise? Swimming? Yoga? It would be positive for sleep too.

It's so tough not to be able to sleep. It affects the whole life and doesnt make wd easier. Thinking about you. Take care.

[ladybug]

Hi again! I had to look "anticipatory" up, and now I see what you mean. I had that too, years ago. It was almost always connected to work, to be able to achieve.

Have you tried mindfulness body scan? I bet you have. But it helped me a lot. Also a bed of nails (right word?) is very relaxing. But I must say what helped me most coming out of a vicious circle was a tiny tiny piece of sleeping pill. Just knowing I have the pills in my bathroom helps me sleep. I dont take them often, maybe twice a month. And then just 1/4 or tinier, if I dont sleep before 1 am. I have done this for years and I dont feel bad from it or about it.

But I have the fully respect if that's not for you. (I know it's not really recommended to take sleeping pills.)

Are you able to do any exercise? Swimming? Yoga? It would be positive for sleep too.

It's so tough not to be able to sleep. It affects the whole life and doesnt make wd easier. Thinking about you. Take care.

 

Yeah I have tried the mindfulness body scan and other relaxation exercises/sleep tricks. It usually has nothing to do with my body being relaxed, it's that my brain won't shut off. Even I try to clear my mind or count down from 1,000 by 3 numbers (I always make it to zero) it just keeps going. It's totally mental because when I tell myself "fine I'll just have to call into work/won't go wherever" I end up falling asleep within the hour. So I guess I have to work on convincing my brain that I'm not actually doing anything the next day but that's pretty hard lol.

 

As for exercise, I'm super lucky in that any sort of exercise also affects my sleep negatively. This angers me almost as much as the anticipatory insomnia because I WANT to exercise and get in shape. Sometimes if I am in a window I can get away with 30 minutes of cardio and yoga, and even though I feel great initially due to the endorphins, it does ramp up my anxiety after. So sick of this crap.

[Jlynn]

It is amazing what our brain can do when it is time to sleep. Mine is like a race track and like the cars my thoughts just go whizzing around inside my head while I am laying there. The more I fight it the faster it gets. Sometimes I think that is why I am so tired during the day. Even when I do fall asleep the race continues. I wish there was an off switch just like turning the lights off. Maybe like tug the ear and brain shuts off, lol. 

[brassmonkey]

Your sitting on top of a high hill leaning against a tree.  The view is wonderful as you look out over the valley. There is a soft breeze playing with your hair and caressing your face. All is peaceful, but there are a lot of hummingbirds darting around and buzzing your head.  They are very plain to look at, maybe one or two are interesting but the rest are just plain. Slowly you realize that these hummingbirds are your thoughts buzzing around. One by one the plain hummingbirds dart off down the valley along with the interesting ones.  It's ok though the interesting ones will be back tomorrow. But for now there is just peace and a gentle breeze as you drift off into a long peaceful sleep.

 

This is a visualization I wrote many years ago to help calm an overactive mind and induce sleep.  I've had some success with it and it has worked well for others.  Give it a try and see what happens.

[Rachelina]

I have a weird trick for when I can't fall asleep. For every letter of the alphabet I have to think of three to five things that I am grateful for. Having a mental task to complete distracts me from the fact that I can't fall asleep, plus thinking of happy things puts me in a more relaxed mood. Sometimes I change the task, like for every letter I have to think of a favorite food or place or person, or a place I would like to travel to once I can actually leave the house I hardly ever make it to Z before falling asleep but if I do I just start over again with a different task. I have no idea if this would work for anyone else but I thought I'd mention it. Sending you hugs, Ladybug!

[ladybug]

It is amazing what our brain can do when it is time to sleep. Mine is like a race track and like the cars my thoughts just go whizzing around inside my head while I am laying there. The more I fight it the faster it gets. Sometimes I think that is why I am so tired during the day. Even when I do fall asleep the race continues. I wish there was an off switch just like turning the lights off. Maybe like tug the ear and brain shuts off, lol. 

I wish! That would be amazing.

 

Your sitting on top of a high hill leaning against a tree.  The view is wonderful as you look out over the valley. There is a soft breeze playing with your hair and caressing your face. All is peaceful, but there are a lot of hummingbirds darting around and buzzing your head.  They are very plain to look at, maybe one or two are interesting but the rest are just plain. Slowly you realize that these hummingbirds are your thoughts buzzing around. One by one the plain hummingbirds dart off down the valley along with the interesting ones.  It's ok though the interesting ones will be back tomorrow. But for now there is just peace and a gentle breeze as you drift off into a long peaceful sleep.

 

This is a visualization I wrote many years ago to help calm an overactive mind and induce sleep.  I've had some success with it and it has worked well for others.  Give it a try and see what happens.

 

I have tried various visualizations but I will definitely give this one a whirl. Thanks!

 

I have a weird trick for when I can't fall asleep. For every letter of the alphabet I have to think of three to five things that I am grateful for. Having a mental task to complete distracts me from the fact that I can't fall asleep, plus thinking of happy things puts me in a more relaxed mood. Sometimes I change the task, like for every letter I have to think of a favorite food or place or person, or a place I would like to travel to once I can actually leave the house I hardly ever make it to Z before falling asleep but if I do I just start over again with a different task. I have no idea if this would work for anyone else but I thought I'd mention it. Sending you hugs, Ladybug!

 

Ah yes I've tried similar tricks. The one I mentioned before where you count down from 1,000 by 3's. Always make it zero lol. Then I've done baby names by the alphabet, country names by the alphabet, etc. I always make it to the end dang it! Thanks for the suggestion though. Sending hugs right back to you! Hope things are well with you.

 

You know I've recently realized that although I've always said I didn't have a problem with insomnia until Paxil WD I think I just forgot since I always slept like a brick for 9+ hours every night ON Paxil. But I realized that growing up I was always the last one to fall asleep at sleepovers. I think I even used to experience some anticipatory insomnia while going to school. School always caused me major anxiety and I missed a lot growing up. It got so bad in high school I remember I tried a sleep trick I read in a magazine (no internet then lol) where you put freshly cut onions in a glass jar and deeply inhaled it. Obviously did not work haha. But even so I still had no trouble sleeping 90% of the time. So it could be that this is an original issue for me but WD has magnified x100. Just wanted to note that here.

[aberdeen]

Sorry about that Ladybug. You remind me of my daughter, she is always the last to fall asleep at sleepovers, and always the last one to fall asleep at home a lot too. I ask why and she says she just cant settle down, or she cant stop thinking about stuff, not even scary stuff. Just "awake". Hubby used to be similar. I fall asleep fine, my issue has always been to wake up and not be able to fall back asleep if its almost light outside, and in WD, that has been my most long lived symptom, cortisol mornings, anxious mornings, or at best, waking early and not feeling overly anxious, but wide awake with hours to go before I need to be up. Lately I get up at 7:45am but Im awake by 5, and then toss and turn until I have to get up. Unlike you, this isnt affected by the hormonal stuff, its always there. Its next to impossible to tell our brains to just STOP!!!

[ladybug]

Thanks, Aberdeen. Reading what Brassmonkey wrote on your thread I'm now thinking it wasn't so much insomnia as a kid but just my natural pattern. Night owls run in my family lol. But of course since WD it's different. The anticipatory insomnia is so weird cause I'm rarely anxious about anything while laying there. My brain just refuses to shut off as normal if it knows I have to get up early the next day. When I've researched it in the past I stumbled upon a nurses forum and some of the nurses seem to suffer from it even without taking meds. Since many of them work schedules like two days on, two days off, they know they need to get a good night's rest before their 48 hour shift so, just like me, their brain prevents them from sleeping. Pretty interesting.

[aberdeen]

I have had that happen before, but thakfully not often, but Im a natural nightowl, and theres nothing wrong with that as long as we can get enough sleep somehow. We're just wired that way I guess! Actually, my daughter was a nightowl even as a new born, wide awake (and happy) until 3am for her first few months. I dont even mind, because my anxiety is always at its lowest levels at night so its nice to enjoy!!

[PoetJester]

Hi Ladybug,

 

I was just reading through the last month or so of your thread. I have the same problem with anticipatory insomnia. I simply cannot fall asleep when I have plans of any sort for the next day. Holidays are usually awful for me as far as falling asleep the night before. I read about your wedding plan and know that would have happened exactly the same way to me. I would have been hestitant at first knowing that it would be rather traumatic to go to a huge social function in my current wd state and also trying to sleep somewhere other than my own apt. then I would have thought I might as well try going and just grin and bear it and then the night before I would have gone between laying in bed wide awake fretting about the next morning and going and sitting on the couch wondering about how little sleep I could maybe function on and then I would head back to bed with the same no sleep results. Then it would be a regretful call in the morning cancelling my plans as I work myself up into a depressive episode. The pressure of knowing I need to sleep always causes my sleep to go away. It sucks!! Like you I haven't slept anywhere other than my bed in 10 years. Other than 2 short half day road trips to outstate MN, I haven't even left Minneapolis in those 10 years. I am having all sorts of sleep problems still 2 1/2 years out from my ct wd of Zoloft and zyprexa, but definitely any added planned event or stressor would throw off what poor sleep I do usually manage on regular days.

[grandmaD]

Gidday baby girl!  How are you going now?  You said you didn't see any pattern or improvement but did a drop anyway.  How long did you last before dropping?

How is your sleep and anxiety levels?  How have these last few drops been for you as I recall those couple just under 5mg were pretty awful.  How's the dating arena going? 

[ladybug]

Hi Ladybug,

 

I was just reading through the last month or so of your thread. I have the same problem with anticipatory insomnia. I simply cannot fall asleep when I have plans of any sort for the next day. Holidays are usually awful for me as far as falling asleep the night before. I read about your wedding plan and know that would have happened exactly the same way to me. I would have been hestitant at first knowing that it would be rather traumatic to go to a huge social function in my current wd state and also trying to sleep somewhere other than my own apt. then I would have thought I might as well try going and just grin and bear it and then the night before I would have gone between laying in bed wide awake fretting about the next morning and going and sitting on the couch wondering about how little sleep I could maybe function on and then I would head back to bed with the same no sleep results. Then it would be a regretful call in the morning cancelling my plans as I work myself up into a depressive episode. The pressure of knowing I need to sleep always causes my sleep to go away. It sucks!! Like you I haven't slept anywhere other than my bed in 10 years. Other than 2 short half day road trips to outstate MN, I haven't even left Minneapolis in those 10 years. I am having all sorts of sleep problems still 2 1/2 years out from my ct wd of Zoloft and zyprexa, but definitely any added planned event or stressor would throw off what poor sleep I do usually manage on regular days.

 

I'm so sorry to hear of your similar struggles with anticipatory insomnia. It really does suck! You describe it so perfectly too. Although I haven't traveled anywhere in 10 years I did housesit for friends twice. The first time I had a lot of sleep issues because I was also dog sitting and they insisted on sleeping in the bed with me and moved around so much and one of the dogs even snored. I was only able to get sleep when I locked them out of the room. The second time there were NO pets and I slept quite well. Even better than I do at my own house because at my house I have cats lol. I've become such a light sleeper and so I get broken sleep every single night because something ends up waking me up every few hours. But since it was only me at my friends house I think I actually slept through the night a couple of times.

 

I really hope you see some improvements in your sleep soon. I've definitely heard of people turning a corner at 3 years out. I hope that is the case for you!